Down the Rabbit Hole
Things outside of the conventional strength & conditioning stuff.
dcsportstraining.substack.com
Down the Rabbit Hole
Shelby Copeland - The Joy of Natural Movement
Use Left/Right to seek, Home/End to jump to start or end. Hold shift to jump forward or backward.
Fitness doesn't have to mean treadmills and weight machines. What if it meant solving movement problems instead?
Shelby Copeland takes us on a journey that challenges everything we thought we knew about exercise. As the founder of Force of Nature Movement in Madison, Wisconsin, she's pioneering an approach to physical activity that focuses on skill acquisition rather than conventional fitness metrics.
What makes Shelby's perspective particularly refreshing is her own unconventional path. Until age 25, she lived a sedentary lifestyle plagued by chronic pain. A humbling experience surfing with a friend twenty years her senior sparked her curiosity about movement. "What do I need to do to be ready to have adventures?" became the question that transformed her life.
Through MoveNat, parkour, Brazilian Jiu-Jitsu, rock climbing, and ninja training, Shelby discovered that movement could be about solving problems rather than performing exercises. This realization forms the core of her teaching philosophy today, where she helps people of all ages reconnect with natural movement patterns in unconventional spaces like parks, playgrounds, and libraries.
The most captivating aspect of Shelby's work is her "Parkour for Seniors" program. Working alongside physical and occupational therapists, she guides older adults through playground-based movement challenges that improve balance, coordination, and confidence. The joy on participants' faces as they navigate obstacles and learn to manage the fear of falling speaks volumes about the program's impact.
Whether teaching children through exploratory play or helping seniors rediscover their physical capabilities, Shelby's approach centers on "challenge by choice" – allowing people to select their own level of risk and difficulty. This creates sustainable motivation and builds genuine movement confidence that extends beyond the gym walls.
Ready to rethink your relationship with movement? Listen now to discover how natural, skill-based movement might be the missing piece in your fitness journey – regardless of your age or experience level.
Introduction to Shelby Copeland
Speaker 1Hey , jeff , here at DC Sports Training back with another episode of Down the Rabbit Hole and today we have an awesome podcast . We have Shelby Copeland . Shelby is the owner of Force of Nature Movement out in Madison , wisconsin . I have been wanting to get on a podcast with Ms Copeland here because I've followed her for a while now on social media both her personal account and her business account of Force of Nature Movement .
Speaker 1I think what she does is just amazing . She works at least the work that she puts on her business account is a lot . She works with children and elderly adults , but a lot of the videos that she makes are of herself training and then the adults that she works with . And I got to tell you someone who's worked with elderly adults now for for a while , what she does is just unbelievable . She's having she had , she has parkour classes for the elderly out in playgrounds and you watch these videos and you can't help but have a smile on your face . You can't help but feel inspired , what she has them doing , what these people are doing at their ages , and it's awesome , it is unbelievable .
Speaker 1I think it is what the world needs more of . You know , I first started my fitness journey working in a Jewish community center back in Rochester , new York , and I'm forever grateful to having trained there and gone there forever my whole youth , and that was the first place I got a job , training and working with adults . And even though it is a fun experience , it sometimes can be challenging because of the fears that come with falling , comes with getting hurt , and so we define fitness as you know getting on an elliptical , doing our exercise circuits and things like that and it's not to say that these are bad or wrong , but we need movement , we need to challenge ourselves in different ways in different capacities . We need to get back to things that we used to do when , when we were kids , back what our ancestors used to do and climb and crawl and pick up things and throw things . And what shelby teaches and does with her adults and what she does in her classes and what she does herself is just awesome , you know .
Speaker 1And what's also fantastic about her story that I wanted to get on the call and talk to her about is she doesn't have a conventional training background . She didn't go to school for you know bachelor's and exercise science and get her masters and her CSCS . She didn't start , as she'll talk about in our podcast . She didn't start until she was 25 , a little bit later , and and then just got the bug to move , and not just to move , but she wanted to move because she wanted to solve problems , movement challenges such as rock climbing , such as jiu-jitsu , such as surfing , such as these other things . Rather than kind of looking at it backwards like , okay , well , I need to move , I need to exercise , I need to , you know , get strong . She looks at it as okay , I want to , I want to solve these challenges and now I have to do these other things . And I think that is such a awesome and refreshing and , to be honest with you , I think more times a not correct way of looking at training . Again , as someone who's worked with adults now for close to 20 years , we define fitness and exercise as going to the gym and doing things , but she's showing that , you know , uh , you don't need to go , you don't need to be in a gym to exercise , you don't need to use weights and ellipticals and all of these things to to be fit and to exercise . She's she's using , you know , playgrounds with , with kids and with adults . Uh , she's doing ninja warrior , she's doing rock climbing and surfing it's . It's awesome . Uh , I think she's very inspirational and I absolutely love her story and what she does and I wanted to share it with everyone .
Speaker 1So I hope you like this podcast and enjoy this podcast as much as I did , and please give it a like and a share . And yeah , thank you . All right , well , shelby . Thank you so much for taking the time to jump on this call , ma'am . It is an honor to speak to you again , ma'am . I love the background . I know this podcast is recorded audio
From Sedentary to Movement Journey
Speaker 1. I will have some video clips . Love the background . You took me for a loop . I thought you were outside and it was going to be a little noisy , but no , love the background . Thank you so much , ma'am . This is I really look forward to talking to you Awesome , happy to be here .
Speaker 1Well , for those who may not know you , will you mind explaining who you are and what it is you do ? And yeah , I would love to kind of just go off of that .
Speaker 2Yeah , sounds good . My name is Shelby Copeland and I am in small group fitness class leader , personal trainer and a person who's really curious about movement . My background is in MoveNat , which is a movement system that uses natural movement like crawling , jumping , lifting , carrying . So that's my background , that I'm trained in , but then also I as an athlete . I have participated in the sport of ninja , parkour , um , some grappling , um , so , and rock climbing . So I I love moving as an athlete , but then I also really love teaching . Skill-based movement is kind of what I would say I do . So , drawing on all my different backgrounds , I just really love using skills as a focus for people to get moving , and I also really like getting people moving outdoors , so using spaces that are not conventional gym spaces , so mostly teaching outside , but I've also taught in libraries , I've taught at a nature center , so just trying to kind of use unconventional spaces for movement .
Speaker 1I love that . Yeah , I was . I followed you for a while on Instagram , ma'am , you know , following Move Nat for a very long time and people that kind of do that , and when they post and reshare I try to look to see who's doing it and where , and I absolutely just love your personal , but also your business account and what you do for yourself . I like watching people train and what you do . You have a really cool garage . I'm guessing your . Your little self garage gym that you built is awesome and I'm super jealous of that . And then what you do from a business standpoint , which we'll get into here in a few minutes , but if you don't mind . Like I mean , were you an athlete growing up ? Were you just always inclined to just move , or were you one of those kids that just bounced around constantly and couldn't stop moving , or how did you kind of kind of get into all this ?
Speaker 2yeah , um , yeah , so I would . I was not an athlete , um , but I was a kid who was always up in a tree or like at the top of the swing set . So I think I just I loved moving , but I didn't love sports or fitness , like that never connected with me . And it wasn't until I found movement , skill-based movement , like MoveNet , where I was like , oh , like , it's okay for this to be movement , this doesn't have to be fitness , this doesn't have to be exercise , this doesn't have to be a sport , and I think that was really important for me , to learn that movement is different than exercise . Um , and once I learned like what kind of movement resonated with me , it was like nothing could stop my curiosity . Nothing could stop like the intrinsic motivation was so great , versus like someone telling me what to do or telling me you know , this is how you progress in the gym , you know , like a linear progression like which , of course , I use as an athlete . Now that I understand the benefits of progressive overload , that did not connect with me and that was intimidating to me . And finding ways to move that I just loved and that um were interesting or novel or fun is what kind of opened the door for me to start moving more . Um , I was sedentary until I was 25 . I didn't do anything . I sat at a desk . I I would ride a bike sometimes , but sometimes , but I had chronic pain issues and so everything just hurt and I had neck pain all the time and then I started not even being able to sit on a bike seat . I was having so much chronic pain so I didn't do anything . Wow , okay , yeah . So I didn't start moving until I was 25 .
Speaker 2The wake-up call for me was I had a friend invite me to go Great Lakes surfing . Yes , you can surf on a lake . So I went out with her and she's 20 years older than me , but she was out paddling me . She was out , you know , like her balance was better , her , you know , her quickness was better , and I was like out of breath , left behind , you know , incapable of like doing this activity , and like I just like lit a fire in me . I'm like well , what do I need to do to be better at this ? What do I need to do to be ready to have adventures ? And so I bought this like DVD off the internet called surf strong and I started doing these like surfing specific workouts in my basement . But all that to say that kind of opened the door to me , like having a goal or something that was interesting to me and then figuring out how to start working backwards towards that goal .
Speaker 1That's awesome . So I mean , so you didn't go to school for physical education or for exercise science or any of that .
Speaker 2No , I went to school for filmmaking .
Speaker 1Okay , wow , that's really cool . Do you still do any of that ?
Speaker 2Yeah , I do freelance video editing and then I like making videos for fun no-transcript .
Speaker 1Do you mind kind of describing , like the differences in your opinion between the two ?
Speaker 2Yeah , absolutely . So I would say exercise is just kind of moving to move . So I would think of like a larger group fitness class , you know , like the YMCA or something where everyone's doing a dance together like choreographed weightlifting , you know , with five pound weights . I would call that exercise and it's valuable and important and needed . Where I would say , training is more intentional and more there's a goal in mind , there's usually progressions , there's usually a pretty clear path and kind of like almost built in limits , like you know working , whether that's like a cycle with a deload or like hey , you know you're , you're failing this jump time to go back and do some squats , you know , and build up leg strength . So there's usually some kind of self-limiting factors with with skill-based training . Um , and it's I . I just feel it's more intentional , kind of a little bit more focused than exercise .
Speaker 1No , and I love that you said that . Uh , you know , solving a movement problem is kind of what kind of started you working backwards and I think that's .
MoveNat and Training Through Injury
Speaker 1I think that's awesome . I work with a lot of adults similar to you and a lot of times they just want the exercise . I was like , okay , well , what are things you want to get better at ? Let's be a little more specific , and I love that with you know , first with the surfing and then your journey into the other things . Now , how did you find MoveNat ? How did you kind of get into parkour and all of the rock climbing and the jujitsu and all the other crazy stuff you're into ?
Speaker 2Yeah . So I think once I started kind of getting a taste for movement and like the world that it opened up , I just started getting really curious . But I didn't have the background and how to have a sustainable training practice , so I kind of dove in headfirst . You know , I was a postpartum mom . I had some pretty major strength imbalances core strength from having babies , but then just in general kind of like imbalanced strength . So I kind of went hard in .
Speaker 2Ninja was the first sport I just kind of went for and I got injured right away . I tore my shoulder labrum because I over trained and I didn't recover properly . I just didn't know what I was doing . I had like natural talent that was carrying me , but I didn't have strength and so I found MoveNAT . As an injured person . I was like well , I clearly need to do something different from what I had seen of Move Nat . It was really progressive and so I'm like this seems like a system where , like I could build this strength that I'm lacking and it also just it was like skills I could do outside with my kids on a playground . So I was looking for something my whole family could do together .
Speaker 2So it turns out there was a Move Nat gym like within biking distance , distance of my house uh walked in the door with an injured shoulder , met Rock Hancock , who's now my dear friend and mentor , and , um , yeah , I started working with him basically to rehab my shoulder . Um , and a lot of what he had me do was just like fundamental foundational movement . It's like crawling , um , you know , like inclined push-ups , um closed chain work , and we ended up kind of building up eventually where I could go overhead again . But it took like a year and a half to rebuild the pulling strength that I had before all right so yeah , that's how I found it through injury yeah .
Speaker 1And then through through big rock . Yeah , I , uh I've told you this when we spoke before but yeah , rock put on a mood net uh seminar here in the greater Pittsburgh area , and that's where I met uh rock as well . So shout out to to big rock . Um , I see he's back with move net . I think that they just re announced , just announced that on Instagram , so that's awesome . Yeah , no , that's , that's . That's so cool that there's a move that gym there and then is is the gym still there ?
Speaker 2it's not , and so rock has um rebuilding something here in wisconsin to be to be is he back up in wisconsin ?
Speaker 1he's in wisconsin , yeah okay because I knew he was traveling . He was nomading a little bit with his family and and their little caravan of stuff um , yeah oh , that's so awesome . Uh , so now , professionally speaking you I mean you said you were a photographer , videographer and and to all that that stuff when did you kind of decide to convert over to coaching and starting your own classes and all that stuff ?
Speaker 2Yeah , yeah .
Speaker 2So I think it was my experience with um being injured and being in pain and just seeing the benefits that movement had on my life .
Speaker 2So , in addition to this injury , I also was struggling with some other health issues at the same time . Um , that just was putting me in constant chronic pain like just crazy , crazy , crazy , roving nerve and joint pain and just trying to figure out like how to manage this , like how to live , how to be a parent , how to work , um , and I just found that move net and like my work with rock was such a huge piece of the puzzle of getting out of pain , um , and just being like persevering through discomfort to build the necessary strength that ultimately helped me be free of pain , um , in addition to some other health things , but like it was such a large piece that I was like man . This helped me as someone
Teaching Movement to Older Adults
Speaker 2dealing with pain . I'd like to help other people too and , like someone once said to me , you know , if you walk into the fire and you come out alive , maybe like come back in with some buckets like a water to help other people .
Speaker 1So I'm like well what ?
Speaker 2what buckets can I carry back in ? You know I've had this experience . This is the tool that was really helpful for me . Could this be a bucket I can carry back and help other people ? So I started the process of switching my career in my late thirties and started . You know , I started the process of switching my career in my late 30s and started . You know , I got my personal training , certification through NASM and I started pursuing MoveNet certifications as well . So in MoveNet , there's three levels . So I was able to do my level one in Madison with Rock and with John Morey , who's an amazing MoveNet teacher , and then flew out to Albuquerque to do my level two with Jenny Ploss . That was an awesome experience . And then level three I did in 2022 . So awesome , yeah , Just started like really diving into the system , really wanting to learn it so I could teach it to others .
Speaker 1That's so cool . And now do you have your own space , your own facility . Where do you teach ? Where do you practice ?
Speaker 2Yeah , yeah , a lot of what I do is kind of remote and pop up , so I'll like teach classes out of parks . I have a class called adult recess that I move around to different parks in in my city . I teach at a local rock climbing gym . I teach a class called Strength in Motion , so it's a skill-based strength class , and so I will run that at the climbing gym and then same thing I'll pop up at different parks . And then the work I do with older adults is adaptive parkour class , called Parkour for Seniors , and that is just outside in a park . So , yeah , and then I do some satellite programs with young children , uh , at the library , and then I do some stuff in my yard as well with kids .
Speaker 1That's so cool . So , yeah , I that's that's the kind of good stuff I wanted to get into , cause I anyone who follows you , and I'll definitely share your social media handle , if that's okay with you . The work you do with , especially with the adults , like what made you want to start working with that population . I think it's amazing what you do . It really is inspiring . But how , how did you just decide to start working with adults , getting them to the playgrounds , how do you get them ? Because , at least in my experience working with adults , there's a lot of fears that come with working with adults in that population of the falls and just getting hurt . So , you know , how do you get them over these movement challenges that they may have , these , these , these , um , again , just fear of of moving . How you know what is your process ? And , sorry , sorry , I'm very , very interested in this .
Speaker 2Yeah , no , yeah , let me know if I don't answer your question , like if you have follow up questions . So I think for me the why started inside of me . As someone who grew up , you know , pretty risk adverse and then also someone who went through a season of pain , I was like I don't want to make things worse , I don't want to hurt myself more . You know , I was just so afraid and so like my movement was so ginger and so like I don't know . And then I was , you know , obsessed with someone checking my form , like am I doing it wrong ? And what I learned as I got more consistent with my training is like my body is so resilient , my body is so good at solving movement problems and that can be a problem if we're compensating with a bad movement pattern , but generally , like we can find a way to do things . And I realized that like by avoiding strength I was making these problems worse . You know , like I actually kind of had to just work through that discomfort to arrive to enough strength where I wasn't going to hurt myself . I had that resilience to to move in the world . So that was kind of my internal process . So then kind of zooming out to like clients . Yeah , same thing . I noticed a lot of fear , a lot of like hesitancy with risk or new skills . But then I found like if people were able to kind of feel like socially safe in a class , establish like okay , I trust my leader to kind of know like is this okay for me to try and to have progressions for them to try , that felt safe , like options , then people were generally willing to try things , you know , based on their ability level .
Speaker 2So I think , working with older adults and like the modality of parkour like my curiosity started when I saw a video of like older adults , like going down the slide and like jumping off something , and I'm like , whoa , 50 plus parkour cool , I've never seen it . And like the smiles on people's faces , like the joy . I was like I want to do that , like that looks so fun , like how do I get involved ? And same kind of thing , like I learned there was someone here in Madison doing an adaptive parkour class and I'm like , well , can I come shadow your class ? So started like shadowing , watching , observing , and so this individual is Susan Fricken . She's a physical therapist here in Madison
Adapting Parkour for Seniors
Speaker 2with the clients she was working with , mostly older adults , that they needed more challenge , like a lot of the fitness classes they were taking was like chair yoga or like you know what else Low impact dance class , which is totally fine and super valuable .
Speaker 2But she was finding like in order for people to gain balance skills , gain strength , they're going to need more challenge , they're going to need more opportunities to push themselves . So Susan had come across this curriculum called PK Silver , which is no longer an active organization , but that's how she kind of got trained in and started finding this modality . But Susan also has extensive background in fall resiliency work , balance work , like fall prevention work . So I joined the teaching team here in Madison for Parkour for Seniors and we have in our teaching team we've got an occupational therapist , a physical therapist and then two personal trainers , and then we have a in our teaching team we've got an occupational therapist , a physical therapist and then two personal trainers , and then we have volunteers that cycle in as well . So folks are in good hands . You know we've got a big class , 25 students , but we also have like four , you know , instructors and volunteers available to help support people . So we just found making a space where , like risk was measured but like the challenge was there .
Speaker 2Challenge by choice is like a phrase we use a lot . People could choose to challenge themselves , find an edge , push an edge . You know , work on skills over time and we have just seen amazing results , like we've heard people share changes to posture that's like been linked to like no longer having urine loss or you know , just seeing people's posture changing over time . Strength , endurance , like all these just like really cool factors , cool factors , um , and then we also have a pretty good you know , statistically and anecdotally , like people just like if they fall , they share their story and they're like I fell really well , you know I tripped , but then I rolled , or like I I crumpled , um . So you know we share fall stories in like a positive light , which is kind of cool , um , and you know , sometimes injuries happen and like that's just life , like we fall , um .
Speaker 2But it's like helping people kind of manage that fear of falling , like okay , I have a plan or I have a couple options , or like I trust my body to be strong enough to like manage this . So yeah , it's been really , really cool that is amazing .
Speaker 1Now , how and I think you said it was already established . But my question is like how do you start a program like that , like hey want to meet me at a playground and we'll go , we'll go move around .
Speaker 1Or you just say hey , get in this bus , go to local home and get in this bus and drop them off , like because if I , I like I really generally want to know , because I I think that's so awesome and there's great playgrounds here in Pittsburgh and I would love to do that , but like I don't , how do you market that ? Like , how do you convince if I said to some of the adults cause I have a , I have an adult class that a lot of them are over 75 . All right , we're going to go to a playground today . They tell me to go crapping my hat , like how , yeah , I mean , how do you ? How do you market that ?
Speaker 2that's so , that's so awesome , it really is I think that visuals speak for themselves , so like I'll send you some videos you can show to the people in your class and it's 80 year olds , like jumping between rocks , like really it's and it's . There's someone there like spotting and supporting , but they're doing it Like uh , people climbing videos are awesome . Yeah , people climbing over picnic tables , people um what else , like jumping off swings , you know , like people doing cool stuff Um and they have a smile on their face in your video .
Speaker 1That's that's what I love the smiles on their faces .
Speaker 2Yeah , yeah's , that's what I love , the smiles on their faces . Yeah , yeah , and that's , I think , the magic of challenge by choice is like these are challenges people have decided to take on themselves . Um , in a space where , like you know , there's just been week after week after week of support to get people to that point . So it isn't immediate , but but it is possible . Yeah .
Speaker 2So , like our group is a partnership with our recreation department . So we wrote the director and asked like , hey , would you be interested in an adaptive parkour class ? And they're like , yeah , great , that easy .
Speaker 1That's so cool .
Speaker 2Let's try it . So yeah , I think we've been there almost two years now , so yeah , that's , that's so cool , like . Let's try it . So yeah , I think we've been there almost two years now , so yeah , that's awesome , very cool .
Speaker 1Um , do you see , like any of the , uh , the , the older adults like wanting to bring their grandkids and stuff and joining in as well ?
Speaker 2yeah , I love the idea of like a multi-age group . Um , that's always like kind of in the back of my mind . Yes , like it's absolutely something like people are sharing with their families . Yeah , um , one one student , he we use these like little wooden . We call them jump trainers , but they're like little wooden balance beams with like a non-slip surface on the bottom . He like built a bunch of them and brought them to his family thanksgiving and they were all like doing parkour together , like on these little wood trainers he built . So , yeah , I think it's definitely like having a ripple effect in people's communities , which is cool that's so fun .
Speaker 1Um , yeah , please , any videos , because I mean , again , I'll link to your instagram page . But when I watch those videos of them and they're all smiling and having fun , I just absolutely love that . Now , how do you in a I mean , if you don't mind me asking in a class like how many adults would you have ? Yeah , on average .
Speaker 2Yeah , our class is huge , it's 25 people . It's too big .
Speaker 1So then my question well then , my question is how do you , how do you scale that ? Um , if you have , because you know some , you might have some 60 , 70 year olds that are actually pretty moved , pretty well , and then you have some that like really don't move well . So how do you scale a class to , to kind of those challenges ?
Speaker 2Yeah , good , good question in a playground when it's not your equipment yeah , yeah .
Speaker 2So we a couple different ways . So the first way is , like our teaching team we're actually meeting this week to talk about , can we have like a true beginners class , because right now everyone's just in this same level ? Yeah , um , but so that's one option I think we're exploring is like to have more of an introductory class , um . So the other option is , within a class , we we use this like quick , little , like rating system where you know , on a scale of one to five , uh , five is like you want to do like high challenge , like impact work today , one being you just want to work the fundamentals , how are you doing today ?
Speaker 2And everybody holds up a finger and then they form groups based on their like level of risk that day , and then we have like scaled options for each group available , but sometimes , in like a group setting where we're not breaking into small groups , we'll just show like three or four different options . So , like just one after the other , we're like level one you know
Working with Children and Families
Speaker 2the incline , push up on a rail . Level two you know , you know change , change the angle of your foot or go down to a picnic table . So we're just always showing tons of options and we try to use the word option instead of regression or modification , because it's not negative .
Speaker 1It's just like where are you at ?
Speaker 2today , or modification , because it's not negative . It's just like where are you at today , like sometimes it's different for different people . So yeah , yeah so options and then like kind of that self-selecting sort of small group work , works really well very cool .
Speaker 1Um , now you also mentioned that you do stuff at a library . Uh , and I know , speaking with you before you , you work with mothers and children , like we might kind of of get into that . What are those classes like ? What do you do with them ?
Speaker 2Yeah , so my library class is for children ages zero to five and what I have found , or like kind of what my preference is as a facilitator for those classes , is to not be leading people through like specific movements the whole time . What I'll do is kind of create like a designed movement space . Um , so we have a really cool room in the children's area of our local library that has like a padded floor and like trx mounts on the ceiling so we can hang rings or like a sensory swing , and then we have like a couple of like climbing elements and then kind of like balance elements . So I'll kind of make like an obstacle course and then I usually will kind of seed play by like showing some things and just kind of starting to move through the space and generally kids just kind of start following and then the play just kind of evolves and I personally am a big fan of letting kids explore and be like led by their own interests .
Speaker 2I'm not a huge fan of like directing every single movement or like lifting a kid up onto something like . I just kind of want them to pick their own level because then they actually learn the skill . So my struggle with like parents is just making that clear , like , hey , like it's okay , like they can move that block , or like you know , like letting people know it's okay for the play to kind of evolve , and like change in the space , um , and then I'm always inviting the caregivers to come move and I'm like you can come , like the ring is rated for 1500 pounds , like you can come hang on it and like no one ever wants to do it , like no adult ever wants to do it , and I don't know if it's just like a fear of being perceived as being silly or like not being able to do the skill right .
Speaker 2So I find grownups are a lot more inhibited with like moving in front of each other . So a solution to that is I tried to have like a multi-age , like a family movement class and it was awesome Like it went so well . Parents felt like they had more of a role . They felt like I think their expectation was set that they were going to be moving too , so that worked really well oh , very cool do you have ?
Speaker 1for for either class , class , you know whether you're working with the adults or the children . Do you have , like , I wouldn't say a set curriculum , but do you have , like , okay , this month or this block of time , we're going to be working on these specific movement skills , uh , or is it very much based off of ? You know , when you get to the playground , especially up in wisconsin with the weather , you know we're gonna , we're gonna kind of design it as we go and same with the , with the kids . Is it kind of very much based off of that ? Or you have to again , for lack of a better phrase a curriculum that you're going to do , that we're going to start belly on ground movements , then we're going to do hanging , we're going to do this kind of stuff .
Speaker 2Yeah , yeah . So for my structured kids classes , yes , I have a curriculum and yeah , I've done like built , and actually this is really commonly what I do is I'll build from the ground up . But lately with my kids classes I've been just trying to hit like the elements of like an overhead skill , a lower body skill and then a balance skill . So I'm just I basically try to pick three skills and usually a skill that's like progressive , so like , for example , if I'm working towards a lache which is like a bar to bar dynamic movement , I would start with like a swing off , so a kid hanging on a bar moving their body in like an arch hollow position and then landing on their feet on the mat .
Speaker 2So like that's where I would start , and then by the end of the class we're like tapping the bar and like launching ourselves , launching ourselves , so yeah , and usually my classes are only in like five week series , so I try to kind of take a skill that we can do in that amount of time . But then I also just find there's a huge benefit to like a lot of play and exploration time as well , um , and I think just letting kids get movement reps in and solving movement problems , like with a little bit more of that open play flavor works better for some kids . So I'm always like sandwiching my skills and drills with like some movement , exploration or some play and like usually like a task focused game where they don't even know they're getting a bunch of jump reps in , like it's just happening um so yeah , just trying to like .
Speaker 2like there's this really nice little um chart from the movement creative , which is a parkour group in brooklyn , and it like breaks uh movement into four quadrants . So it's play , exploration , drill and challenge and each one is given to the learner a little bit different , with different parameters . So like play is like there's usually rules like a game and there's usually like a success state , whereas explore is like there isn't a success state , where you know there's some parameters but the parameters are pretty loose . It's up to you to kind of solve , make and solve your own sort of movement patterns . Drill is usually like sets and reps . You know we're doing this specific thing . And then a challenge is here's a movement problem , but I'm not going to tell you how to solve it . Like you have to solve it . So I try to hit on all four of those in my classes .
Speaker 1Very cool . I like that . That's awesome . Now , what I mean ? What are your kind of long-term goals with being , you know , a professional ? Your businesses Are you trying to start ? Are you ever going to get any MoveNet classes up there yourself , because I've been looking to attend some more ones and I think right now there's only one other one , I think in Rhode Island , and the rest are going to be overseas , so we need to get more here in the States . Are you ever planning on being a MoveNet instructor ?
Speaker 2Yeah , I mean , I think that'd be really cool . I think the thing that's tricky is just here where , where I live , like the Move Nat brand just isn't recognized . People just don't know what it is . They've never seen the logo , they've never heard of it , plane like strength and motion , or you know . I feel like people kind of connect with the word parkour or with ninja . They kind of understand what that is . Natural movement or natural fitness is like another term that I feel like is becoming like a little bit more understood
Personal Movement Goals and Family Life
Speaker 2by people . But in general I think people just don't know what it is .
Speaker 1They just have no idea so how would you define natural movements ?
Speaker 2um natural movement . I mean , I would maybe say skill .
Speaker 2Skill-based movement is maybe more to differentiate it from like typical gym movement , maybe so skill-based movement focused around different human movement patterns I don't know , I'm just like , oh sorry , just like pulling that out , but you know , because it's different than like weight lifting , you know , and it's different than other modalities that are just like a little bit more structured , um , but it follows the same sort of um , progressive overload , as like lifting , or you know , it's just you're progressing a skill instead of a lift gotcha , um .
Speaker 1So what are you currently ? What are movement challenges that you're currently trying to tackle and and and work on right now yourself , since again , any , I'll share your Instagram account , if that's okay , but like yeah , you have . You've built yourself quite an awesome garage . As I mentioned before , I'm very jealous of your garage , but what are ? What are things you're trying to work through now ?
Speaker 2yeah , yeah . So , hmm , I'm setting goals for this next quarter . I have too many , but trying to hit 20 pull-ups by the end of this year . I have a bet , a bet from a jiu-jitsu teammate , to try to hit 20 pull-ups by a certain timeline . So I'm on track , I'm gonna , I'm gonna get there . Um , and then climbing is like an area I'm trying to kind of focus on more , like with technical skill uh , which is kind of tricky to quantify , but I'm working towards that . And then , I don't know , I'm trying to decide if I compete in Ninja or not this year . Like I just I'm trying to decide if I have the time . So I just turned 40 and so I can be a master's athlete now and I don't have to compete .
Speaker 140 is a master's .
Speaker 2Yeah , well , because before I was competing against 16 year olds , the age bracket is 16 to 39 . I'm like that's a huge age range , like yes , so yeah , I'm excited to compete against people at least in their 40s . Um , so I'm deciding if I'm going to compete this season . Uh , yeah , those are my current goals , yeah awesome .
Speaker 1Yeah , I like rock climbing a lot . I've been trying to do that more and more myself and I just find that is just an amazingly tough physical workout challenge . You think you're strong until you're hanging on by your fingers and you got to reach or try to solve a problem . I absolutely love rock climbing . But , yeah , you should definitely go for Ninja Warrior . Ninja Warrior is awesome .
Speaker 2Yeah , it just takes so much time , true .
Speaker 1Very true . Are your kids into all the same stuff as you or your family ?
Speaker 2Yeah , my kids I'd really try not to put pressure on like especially the structured or competitive side of what I'm doing , but they get to see a lot of my training and they it's like so normal for them I don't think they realize like it's not normal for a mom to do what I do .
Speaker 2like it's just like their lived experience um , yeah and even , like during the pandemic , they would come with me to this women's strength class and it was just so normal to see moms like lifting sandbags and moms throwing med balls and moms like hanging for monkey bars .
Speaker 2It's just like that's what moms do . So I don't know , I don't think they really . It's just , movement is just like a part of their life . It's not really a sport or anything , I don't know . So I think once maybe they start getting older and , like you know , kids start selecting sports more , they might be like , oh , oh , I should specialize . They're like , yeah , but I think they're going to have like this really cool strong foundation just from all the movement we do as a family .
Speaker 1Oh , 100% . It's hard not to . I mean , with your training and what you do from a business standpoint and the people they get to see if they follow mom to work , but then also just your . You know the home gym that you've built for yourself and just the crazy stuff that you're doing , jumping from bars to bars or rocks , rocks and rock climbing and I mean , are they just kind of trying to emulate you at all with that stuff , are they ? Are they very ? Much into that , that's awesome .
Speaker 2Yeah , yeah , we go to like a family parkour class together . Um , oh cool , they they're really good at like managing risk for themselves , like picking challenges , um , that are within their skill sets . Like they my kids like don't ever get hurt . Like they're really good at managing risk . Um , yeah , so I just try . I just try to not get too excited when they're into something I'm into I just try to play it really cool , like oh , you want to go rock climbing with me ? Okay , yeah , but they're definitely they're definitely like not competitive about it .
Speaker 2Um , still kind of in the play exploration phase , which I love . I just love that they're still interested in it .
Speaker 1So yeah , that's so cool . Are there any other kind of like movement type of challenges and things that you've been going down rabbit holes looking into ? You know capoeira or you know any kind of you know improv dance or anything like that , or you just kind of staying in your with it with a ninja warrior movement kind of things .
Speaker 2Yeah , I mean mean grappling is definitely a rabbit hole and okay my daughter and I started training together two years ago , so she was five when we started um , so I just got my blue belt this year , which is really cool um , yeah , congrats yeah and that's just like a deep , deep .
Speaker 2There's so much to know , there's so much to learn . So I'm I'm committed to continuing to train in brazilian jiu-jitsu , um , and I love it , for my daughter too , just like the self-defense and then the body awareness that she's learning . It's been really cool , um . But yeah , actually , you mentioned dance , so I've been attending some like improvisational dance sessions .
Speaker 2And it's it's like been so helpful for my grappling and for parkour Because like it kind of demands you to be like creative and in the moment and like just get
Exploring Other Movement Disciplines
Speaker 2really comfortable with like that quick decision making . So I've actually found it to be like really useful as a movement modality and it's fun .
Speaker 1That's so cool . Now you're doing that with your husband , you're just doing that as a family or just that . You kind of going off mom . Thursday night improv dance night .
Speaker 2Yeah , so there's a couple there's a community in Madison called ecstatic dance , and that is freeform dance . You don't talk on the dance floor and you don't wear shoes . Those are the rules . And then you you don't touch each other unless like you like . Really , yeah , let's do it and you could do like some sort of contact improv . Um . So yeah , usually it's just me by myself . Sometimes I've brought my kids and they're super into it . So yeah , it's just really fun to try .
Speaker 1That's so cool . All right , sweet , I'll have to look to see if there's anything like that around me . That sounds awesome .
Speaker 2Yeah , yeah , I really just I think Madison is a unique community in that we just have so many like people have ideas and like form nonprofits and like form groups and we just have like so many cool things going on for like a relatively small city . So , yeah , I feel really lucky that's awesome .
Speaker 1um , yeah , michelle , I don't have any other questions for you . Ma'am , I think you you knocked them all out of the park . Uh , I again I'm gonna blow a little smoke up your butt , man , but I again I wanted to get you on this podcast because I absolutely love what you do on your social media . As I said before , you know the videos that you do with your clients and they just all have smiles on their faces and it's just so amazing to see , you know the , these adults , particularly the adults , just doing these challenges and things that you know they're playing and they have so much fun . But it's , it's also fitness and it's and it's it's you're doing it outside , which it just stacking all of these just awesome things . Uh , no , I mean I , just I , I'm inspired by what you do .
Speaker 1Uh , I definitely try to instill and put a lot of those things into what I do with my adults as well , and I wish there was more people like you doing not to again to put you out of business , but like in the in the United States and around the world , doing what you do with with elderly people , because , yeah , I there is . I used to work at a like a Jewish community center , and it was just all of these silver sneaker classes and and again , not not that they're bad or not that there's anything wrong with them , but just like not enough challenge , not enough challenge and and I , and I absolutely love what you're doing and things like that , and I , I , I commend you , ma'am , thank you so much for what you're doing with people and keep keep doing it . And yeah , is it much for what you're doing with people ? And and keep keep doing it . And uh , yeah , is , do you have a website or is anywhere people can learn more about you and and what you offer in your services ?
Speaker 2yeah , absolutely , um , and thank you so much . Uh , this has been really fun . Uh , my website is force of nature movement umcom , and yeah , sign up for my newsletter and I can let you know what I'm up to . And then , yeah , I would just really recommend looking at the parkour community . Like I feel like the parkour community has done a good job working with older adults and kind of people across all ages . So , like the USPK , united States Parkour Association is a good resource and also Parkour Generations is like a really nice resource to look at . They have some educational material like on their YouTube Really awesome starting place If you're curious about working with older adults . I am doing this kind of movement . So , yeah , yeah , Awesome .
Speaker 1Well , thank you , ma'am , I appreciate your time and , yeah , thank you for jumping on .
Speaker 2Thank you .
Speaker 1Yeah .