Faith Unmuted With Esther Graham
This is the place where Christian women get the opportunity to press the button and say what they want, how they want and exactly how they feel.
The one place where, together, we can collectively walk through our truths, live unapologetically and stop hiding.
Esther Graham has being in ministry all her life and has felt silenced from all the labels and responsibilities that come from being a pastor's daughter to the unexpected role of being a pastor's wife. This journey has not been easy nor has it been just. Esther no longer wants to hid nor lower her voice.
On this podcast, Esther shares what happens when you use your voice and shares the stories of overcoming the stereotypes and living unapologetically.
Faith Unmuted With Esther Graham
The Evolution of Love: Weathering 37 Years of Marriage Together
What makes two people stay committed through nearly four decades of marriage? It's a question worth exploring in a world where relationships often seem disposable.
Marriage is a complex, beautiful journey that requires constant navigation, especially when life throws curveballs. In this deeply personal conversation, I open up alongside my husband John about our upcoming 37-year anniversary and the winding path that brought us here. We don't hold back—sharing the moments when divorce seemed like the only answer, the mindset shifts that saved our relationship, and how we've learned to dance between individuality and partnership.
John reveals a perspective that many men struggle to articulate: how watching your wife evolve and grow requires flexibility and adaptation. "If the woman that you married is maturing, she's going to change," he explains, offering rare insight into how successful husbands approach their wives' personal development. Meanwhile, I share candidly about feeling suffocated by expectations and the liberation that came when I was finally encouraged to be authentically myself.
We explore marriage as more than just a relationship—it's a ministry, an example, and a constantly evolving partnership. The conversation dives into how couples can maintain their individuality while functioning as one unit, why some men feel threatened by successful wives, and the importance of understanding marriage as a true partnership rather than a hierarchy.
Whether you're newly married, contemplating marriage, or decades into your journey together, our honest reflection offers practical wisdom about weathering difficult seasons, communicating effectively, and finding joy in the push and pull of partnership. This isn't about perfection—it's about persistence, authenticity, and choosing each other every day.
Ready to strengthen your relationship? Subscribe to Faith Unmuted for more honest conversations about faith, marriage, and living authentically.
You are listening to Faith Unmuted. The place where Christian women get the opportunity to press the button and say what they want, how they want and exactly how they feel. The one place where, together, we can collectively walk through our truths, live unapologetically and stop hiding.
Speaker 2:So here's the hot topic marriage. Why did you get married? How about this? Why did I get married? Why are you still married and why do you want to get married? So, of course, I have my beautiful husband here. He is my life partner, he is my best friend, he is my lover.
Speaker 3:Yeah, I prefer handsome.
Speaker 2:He is my handsome, handsome husband, John Graham. So let's talk about marriage. So well, first, before we talk about that, hold on Coming up. We'll be married 37 years. 37 years we've been together. 37 years, that's three and seven.
Speaker 3:Yeah, we've been talking about whether we're going to make it to that 37. It's coming up next month, so we've got less than three weeks and I'm wondering can we make it that far?
Speaker 2:do you think we could make it? Why would we not make it? Do you think?
Speaker 3:why would we not make it?
Speaker 2:yeah tell what why would we not make it to 37? I'm not going to to 37, I'm not gonna kill you.
Speaker 3:I hope not the only, yeah, I think the only way that we would not make it and and it's not really us, but the only way that you can come as far as we've come in um in marriage and not make it to years if we decided that we absolutely did not want to do this anymore and the entire 37 years was not worth where we are now.
Speaker 2:Oh, I love that. We decided we did not want to do this anymore, and the 37 years would have meant nothing. And so we've really worked hard on a healthy marriage, because at one point I don't think our marriage was healthy. I mean, it was somewhat healthy, but yet not. You know we were. You know we would have our disagreements and and and and and. Let's let me just be honest. There were times where I felt like you know what this is, we're just not going to make it and and, so we might as well end the relationship. But I remember one time in particular here we go.
Speaker 2:We were having. We were having a heated discussion and and I was done, and he just got tired of me asking him for telling him I'm getting a divorce. So this time we were having I don't even remember what we were arguing about, but we were going at it and honestly, he wasn't much of the arguer I mean, you were quiet somewhat, but he would. He would say what he had to say and this particular time, you know, I basically said I'm done, I'm ready for a divorce. And he just finally said Esther, fine, you can leave, but what you will not do is take my kids. And I looked at him and I said you want to keep the kids? And he said, yeah, you can leave, go do whatever you want to do. Leave my children with me, I tell y'all.
Speaker 2:I sat and I thought about it. I never said I did and I thought I'm not leaving my children with him. And he looks serious. So like, like, I can leave but leave his kids. I was like, oh no, and so I never asked for a divorce again. But what I did do mindset shift, what I did do as I began, I began to work on me and I said, okay, my marriage is important. These are my children's father, and I need to work on this. And so that's really, I think, um, where our marriage began to get better Now. Now listen, I'm not saying he's perfect, he's not, but, um, and I'm not, you know, he's never once asked me for a divorce. I'm not saying he's perfect, he's not, but, and I'm not, you know, he's never once asked me for a divorce. I'm not, you know, he may have thought it, but he's never said it, when I would say it out loud. But why? I mean why, stay married? What's why?
Speaker 3:I see marriage as not just the two of us loving each other, being in love and raising a family. I see our marriage as not just for us. Our marriage is a ministry, right, you know, because God says your first ministry is at home, right, um? So I see it as, um, we have a responsibility to, to uh, to be and to set an example, not only for our children but everyone really that comes in contact with us. Right as to what marriage at least what we believe marriage should look like, and what marriage should be right, everyone, every marriage is different, let's say that.
Speaker 2:But I believe having an example of a good marriage gives you an opportunity to example of a good marriage gives you an opportunity to uh, to have a good marriage yourself, yeah, so let's get. Let's get to some real talk.
Speaker 3:Let's go.
Speaker 2:Um, it's marriage. We've struggled sometimes in our marriage. Share a little bit about that because I think, like in areas we struggle differently, like we have a great marriage. You know we love each other Thirty seven years. I don't want to give anybody the idea that we're just like, oh no, we worked on this, we worked on us. And so talk a little bit about just from your own personal, your personal story about marriage, because I talk about mine all the time. Right, Personal story. What's your personal story with with our marriage and and the times where it has been difficult for you in our marriage? Right?
Speaker 3:So you did mention that, uh you, however many times. Incidentally, if I had $1 for each time that you said that you wanted a divorce, I'd probably be Richard and Elon Musk.
Speaker 2:Whatever, I don't think so.
Speaker 3:Well, maybe not quite that many times, but I really feel that you know, as far as our marriage, that it's my responsibility to learn you, to study you right you to study you right To um, to learn your, your changes. Because, um, oftentimes I hear, I've heard so many guys say, man, my wife has changed. She's not, you know, the person that she was when, uh, when we got married. She doesn't like all these things that we, uh, that she liked before. Man, it's just blowing my mind. I don't know what to do. Da, da, da, da, da.
Speaker 3:So you know, you go out feeling that she's just totally dissatisfied with you, so you go and do something stupid. You know what I mean. And the fact is, if the woman that you married is maturing, she's going to change. She's going to not like some of the things that she liked when she was younger and she's going to gravitate towards some things that she didn't gravitate towards when she was younger. Because she's changing, she's maturing, she's growing, she's figuring out, really, who she is right and she's figuring out the wife that she wants to be. She's figuring out the person that she wants to be. She's figuring out, you know, how she wants to move if it's in the corporate world, or how she wants to move in this world, in entrepreneurship or whatever the case may be. So there are going to be changes, there's going to be growth. There's going to be so many things that shift and you've got to be able to shift with it, because the same thing should be happening to you.
Speaker 2:Yeah, yeah.
Speaker 3:Yeah.
Speaker 2:That's good. So like has there ever been a time that you could share with everyone, where you just really felt like? I'm done you're done or you know, you were just hurt. You were just like, yeah, you're done, Like what, what? You know what? Has there been a struggle time to where you just felt like you know what?
Speaker 3:um, I love this woman, but but I'm not gonna let her keep throwing shoes at my honda prelude. Yeah, I was like almost done then because I loved that car man, but uh so I used to be a shoe thrower yep, she's got a lot of shoes. Okay, a lot of shoes, I do, yeah, but, but, uh, but, on a serious note, um, um, really um. I guess there have been times that, um, and I can't really put my finger on it, dig deep.
Speaker 3:Any particular time. Um um, there have been times, you know, and it's hard sometimes for a man to say that I was hurt versus I was mad or angry.
Speaker 2:Right.
Speaker 3:But anger comes from um, from hurt. It comes from um from hurt, it comes from disappointment. So, uh, so I could say, yeah, that I may have been angry, but it was because I may have been hurt, maybe by something that was said yeah, um, or I felt neglected one, I, I got one. Okay, I got one um desert storm, right, the doctor situation, you remember that no, I don't, you know, I don't.
Speaker 2:Oh well, start the story, I don't oh oh my gosh, sorry y'all, I don't remember the story. Do you want to share the story or no?
Speaker 3:uh, I'll share the story okay, so, um, there was a guy that, um that I want to say head over heels in love, but liked you.
Speaker 2:No, he was head over heels in love with me, bro. Okay, I thought you didn't remember.
Speaker 1:Let's get there.
Speaker 2:Well, I just did, yeah, yeah.
Speaker 3:Go ahead, yeah, oh yeah, yeah, go ahead, yeah. So I'm in the sand. You know sandstorms, you know drinking sand and everything during the war, and it was difficult to get to a landline or a phone to. You know, to call home, to call home, and I can't remember exactly how it happened, but you were friends, right.
Speaker 2:Yeah, we were. And I believe it was a friend zone for you it was, it was a friend zone for me. It may not have been a friend.
Speaker 3:Well, he was in the friend zone, but he didn't want to be in the friend zone.
Speaker 2:Yeah Right, he was definitely in the friend zone. For me, definitely in the friend zone, yeah yeah.
Speaker 3:Yeah. For sure, but I was seven 8,000 miles away, right and um and uh, um, we had a conversation and the conversation, uh, was about not being in touch and all of those sorts of things, so, um, so you mentioned that, um, that, um, um, you guys were going to dinner or something like that I think we were going out to lunch or dinner.
Speaker 2:Yeah, yeah, yeah.
Speaker 3:And yeah, so I'm like I'm 7,000, 8,000 miles away and it really really bothered me, right, yeah, and but I didn't consider I was, you know, I was, I thought.
Speaker 2:So let me just so. It really bothered him, right. But for me I thought telling him, oh, I'm going out to dinner or lunch, whatever it was, was like me saying, hey, just FYI, I'm going out to lunch with this doctor friend of mine, that we've been friends and you know. For me I thought that was information sharing and you should be good because at least I'm telling you. I mean, but that's how we think, right, at least I'm telling you, I'm not.
Speaker 3:A normal, if we had a normal conversation.
Speaker 2:Yeah.
Speaker 3:And and everything was good that probably would have been, would have set well, yeah, right, but our conversation wasn't well, I guess it was normal, but it was. It was a heated conversation, okay, right, and you ended it by saying, yeah, by the way, dot, dot, dot, dot, dot, right, and, and, and here's the thing. And here's the thing, um, so, we, so, so we're on these phone lines. This is way back, right. We're on these phone lines where you can barely hear each other. You know they're static and everything else like that. Again, we're, you know, 8 000 we didn't have cell phones or anything like that and you an international call and cost you a whole lot, but it was a government thing. So, so, um, um, before we could actually, you know, and it was timed, so before we could actually really really, um, finish off the conversation, he goes, it's cut, and I got about 30 guys waiting behind me to get in to make enough to make a phone call to their family. So once you lost it, you were out of there.
Speaker 2:Yeah.
Speaker 3:So I had that to brew on. You know, never mind, you know getting shot at and everything else right. You know what I mean. That thing that was on my mind. More than that, I think that might have been one of my most heroic days. I didn't care about anything, really. Yeah, so, uh, so yeah. That would have been the one time that I that I thought, you know, um, did I make a mistake?
Speaker 2:mistake. I've never heard that Right. Yeah, did you make a mistake?
Speaker 3:No, I didn't make a mistake.
Speaker 2:What makes you think that you? I know we've been married 37 years, but there's a there's people, by the way, that stay married forever but they're not happy, right, you know? I know someone that they were married for, ooh, 50 something years, but they were. They were not happy, they were just in a marriage together. Well, I've never spoken to him, but I spoke a lot with her, just not happy. Well, why aren't you divorced? Or why don't you leave? Why don't you do this? Well, I mean, this is what we do we stay together.
Speaker 3:I think there's a difference. You can be unhappy and be married in a marriage and be unhappy, and you can also be in and settle with that and just say, well, that's going to be the rest of my life, I'm just going to you know, we're going to exist together. We may sleep in different rooms or whatever and make up your mind that you're going to stay married like that. Right, that's not me.
Speaker 1:Right.
Speaker 3:You can also be unhappy in a marriage and decide that you're going to do something about it.
Speaker 2:Right.
Speaker 3:Right. You can also be unhappy in a marriage and decide that you're going to do something about it, right, right. And that's when things begin to get better. Because when you say, you know, I'm unhappy, your mindset is I'm just going to keep going the way, that I am not going to say anything anymore, and you're not getting any better. You're just going through it both, miserable as you can be, right, yeah. But then when you start talking about it, you realize the things that bother you, right, the things that bother your partner, the things that the things that you want to to do together and achieve that you can't do if you don't talk and communicate, that you can't do if you don't start liking each other at least yeah that's true, you know.
Speaker 3:Yeah, yeah, yeah.
Speaker 2:I remember, like at a point where I was unhappy in our marriage and I had to make a decision to I didn't want to get a divorce, I was going to remain in this marriage, and so remaining in the marriage for me meant that I needed to be happy in my marriage, because I'm not that person that's going to stick with you, and you know this. I'm not going to stick with you if I'm not happy. And I see that there's no resolution and that I'm working on this marriage, but you're not working on the marriage, you know. And so now it's just me, because the marriage does take two, and we both have to decide that we want the marriage. And when we decide that we want the marriage, what does this look like for us? What does it look like?
Speaker 2:You know and I think that's what a lot of people miss that if I'm going to stay in this marriage, what does it look like for us? I don't want to not have joy, I want to be able to do great things together, and I think that's where we both decided that. Even listen, there's seasons of marriages, right, and it's kind of like spring, summer, winter, spring fall the four seasons. Marriage goes through that as well, and so sometimes you have a season to where it's rough. It's dark, like winter, you know. And then if you work on it, you know winter goes, it eventually passes, but you got to be willing to walk through the winter.
Speaker 2:you know, right, yeah, and I think that's what we did. I mean, you know, you look at our marriage now, and not that we don't have challenges, not even that we don't even have disagreements, it's just that it's just different. You know what I mean. And number one, we're-.
Speaker 3:And we disagree differently.
Speaker 2:We just exactly.
Speaker 3:Exactly when we were younger. As we mature, we disagreed differently. Disagree with a solution in mind.
Speaker 2:Yeah.
Speaker 3:Right. Disagree with wanting to come to, wanting to come to an agreement, but not to agree, just to, not just to go along, just to get along. Yeah, yeah, not just to go. Yeah, I like that. Not just to go along, just to get along.
Speaker 2:Yeah, yeah, not just to go. Yeah, I like that, not just to go along, just to get along. And then and I think a part of it with me is that, especially as you know, he's a pastor, and so now we're in this whole other mode of pastoring and I honestly felt like wait a minute like I was being suffocated. You know, at one point, you know there's nothing new, you know, felt as if I was being suffocated and so I felt as if I couldn't be myself, because now I now had to be, you know, the pastor's wife, pastor's wife. And it took a while, and I think, even for you, that you wanted me this is my perspective that you wanted me a certain way, because now I'm this pastor's wife and so I've got to conduct myself a certain way. And do you? This is what I'm saying. And I was like, and I did it, it I showed up real well, but after a while that's your opinion.
Speaker 2:No, just kidding but after a while it just kind of got old to me, and I think one of the things that really released me is that for me, when you got to the point to where you just allowed me just to be me, you know know, I was saying thank you for letting me be myself again, yeah, and so you just said just be you.
Speaker 3:Yeah, yeah.
Speaker 2:Although sometimes I was. I think it was difficult for you for me to be me Like. I know sometimes you're like, oh God.
Speaker 3:Yeah, it's like well, I want you to be you. Oh, my goodness, that's kind of overbording. But in full transparency, I just begin to enjoy watching you blossom into who you really are meant to be.
Speaker 2:Yeah Right be, yeah Right yeah.
Speaker 3:Yeah, and if there were jealousy, then that would have been an issue. I mean jealousy on my part For you being allowed to be yourself. I still felt at a certain point that I had to maintain this certain persona or whatever the case may be Right While you were being free.
Speaker 2:Yeah.
Speaker 3:Right and um, and then it took, um, it took that for me to begin to, uh, let's see how long my hair is. Right To begin to let my hair down, you know what I mean. And uh, when I began to let my hair down right to begin to let my hair down, you know what I mean. And when I begin to let my hair down, I begin to really enjoy it. Right, but I still had the relationship with God that I needed to have, right, and I still have the relationship that I need to have. All of our relationships can get better, right and the same. And I talk about this, I talk about the triangle um in um, in in marriage. So, um, god's at the top, we're at, you know, at these separate corners, when we come together, we think we're closer than we could ever be. You know, when we uh, when we get married, and I do this, um, this example, when I uh, when I do marriage ceremonies, but then um, but then the closer we come to God, the closer we come to one another.
Speaker 3:Yeah, right, and we meet God where he is and we meet. I meet the real you, the one that God sees, the one that God ordained, the one that God loves right, and then you meet me there as well. So the closer we get to him, the closer we get to one another. And when we realize that well, when I realized it, it's I've got to get closer to him so that I can see you more, so that I can know you more so that I can learn you more Right and yeah.
Speaker 2:So and so, with the different stages in life, you know, in in this journey called marriage, it's two individuals coming together as one. So you know, we come together and we become now a team, but we're still individuals and sometimes, I believe, if we're not careful because I know this was me as well you lose yourself because you become so much a part of that person's life. Like you know, you're now your children's mother, your husband's or your spouse's wife or spouse, and you know. And so who are you like? Hey, wait a minute, I'm Esther, that's here. You know what I mean. But you become someone else.
Speaker 2:How do you maintain your individuality and still come together as one? Yeah, because I will tell you that when I felt as if I was losing myself, that I became and you know this as well I became very resentful. I'm like why does he get to do all that? I have to do this? He doesn't look like if he's ever bothered about this. Why am I worried about this? And he looks perfectly fine going to sleep at night and I'm up and he's knocked out.
Speaker 3:Well, the Bible does say that he gives his beloved sleep.
Speaker 2:So I'm not his beloved.
Speaker 3:I'm just saying you said you want to sleep, okay.
Speaker 2:But yeah, so how do you? You know, because I think I think especially women, especially the women, they need to know how do we maintain our individuality while we're still a part of this marriage and how can our spouses, our husbands, honor us in that? Because, let's face it, some men are threatened by the success of their wife. This is a reality, right Of their wife, okay, this is a reality right. And many marriages and relationships break up because, right, that woman is successful and the man feels threatened. Talk about that.
Speaker 3:I think one of the major problems, one of the major problems there is that it's not looked at from the beginning as a partnership. Yeah, it's looked at as yeah, or maybe looked at as a partnership, but I'm always that senior partner right.
Speaker 2:Yeah yeah.
Speaker 3:So I have to make the decisions and what I say goes this, that and everything else, and that's not a real partnership. Right, partnership is agreement, discussion, you know all of those things to make it work right. So I think you can be, you can maintain your individuality. I mean, you can even look back biblically right Moses, right Moses was about to be killed by God.
Speaker 2:Yeah.
Speaker 3:Right, but his wife had her own relationship with God and knew what she was supposed to do, or knew what was supposed to be done. So she goes and she what's the word? I don't know, I really don't know. That's off the foreskin of her son.
Speaker 2:Oh, ok, yeah, yeah, yeah.
Speaker 3:Right, and that saved Moses' life right, because the woman did not necessarily what she was supposed to do, but what was supposed to be done. Yeah, and if you understand a partnership, right, it's like, yeah, this may be my job, right, and this may be what I'm supposed to do, but if you're not doing it, then it needs to be done. So we do it and I think we got— it's a revelation of a difference, isn't it? It's a revelation of a difference, and we operate that way. You know, I'm the cook.
Speaker 2:Yeah, amen of a difference and we operate that way, you know it's.
Speaker 3:You know I'm the cook, yeah amen, amen.
Speaker 2:He's the cook and chief, not the bottle washer.
Speaker 3:Okay, he's definitely not the bottle washer. Yeah, yeah, I'll cook, but I ain't cleaning, so so, so, but, but we, uh, we learn to float everything you can't have everything right so you can maintain your individuality, but then still flow together and realize where your strengths are Right.
Speaker 2:I you know when she was, she was dating this guy and and they, they kind of just started dating, getting to know each other, and and she was was in the process of making some decisions about her next step I believe it was in her career, about her next step. I believe it was in her career. And so she asked him for you know what was his thought about different things. And so, just a conversation, we're just talking, I just want to know your opinion on this or that. And so he gave her his opinion and suggestions, and then, I guess, but she made up her own mind and she did something totally different that she decided to do and and something that he didn't say. And so when they got back to you know, when they talked about each other and she said, oh yeah, no, I decided to do this, he said to her well, how could you decide to do that when I gave you this suggestions of blah, blah, blah, you know, on doing it like this, why even ask me? And then he said if you're going to do what you want to do, and then he said how can we be together if you're going to do what you want to do and not take my suggestions?
Speaker 2:And my daughter said wait a minute, I'm a physician, remember? She said I'm a whole doctor here, I've studied why I have to do what you're telling me to do. I was just asking. And then the other point. She said and we're not even married, so right, you know. But but this is it. I think sometimes it's expected. Like you know, I'm the head, I'm the man you walk 10 steps behind me, kind of like what you tried to do in Dubai. Do you remember that?
Speaker 3:Yeah, I did it Right because you knew where we were. You had to right. And then you got smart and says yeah, can I take off this?
Speaker 2:Hijab, this is a hijab.
Speaker 3:And I was like, did I give you permission? I did not give you permission to speak.
Speaker 2:Listen, he was having such a good time with that that I thought to myself boy, when he gets back on the grounds of the United States of America, he's going to be on the doghouse, and we don't have a doghouse outside, but we would get one. He was having a great time with that. But a lot of men take that seriously, you know, and they want. They see women as the lesser, and even in marriage, and that is not how it is.
Speaker 3:And there's certain cultures that practice that, and I don't have a complete understanding of why and how. I believe that all I need to know is what works for my marriage.
Speaker 2:Yeah.
Speaker 3:You know what I mean.
Speaker 2:What really works for my marriage.
Speaker 3:That's important. That's important and some men need more guidance and leading right. And the wives take that right and lead and guide the men. And in other places, some women need more leading and guiding. And in other places, like for ours, for our marriage, it's like we realize this is a push and pull, it's a partnership. So, hey, I'm going to pull you right and you and you know all of those things right. And if there's no push and pull going on, eventually marriage is going to die.
Speaker 2:Yeah, so does that mean that I have to tell you everything, like I have to share everything with you?
Speaker 3:Yeah, why not? No, not necessarily. You don't necessarily have to share everything, but you shouldn't hide anything.
Speaker 2:Oh God, let me get those shoes out the trunk of the car.
Speaker 3:I'm going to see them anyway.
Speaker 2:I already know they're there, so you don't have to share everything, but you don't hide. I like that because there is a difference. Again, that's the revelation of a difference, right, right, you don't have to share it because you know, sometimes you hear, well, you don't ever tell your left hand what your right hand is doing right right what does that mean?
Speaker 3:um, yeah, just, you know, just flow and opera, it depends on the person that's saying it and what they mean by it, right, and how they interpret it. I think not having to share everything that's you know, necessarily have to let the right hand know what the left hand is doing you know, that sort of thing. But for instance, I lost my train of thought.
Speaker 2:All right, so that's good though that's good, we're about to end. So any advice that you would give to marriages, especially to men and to women, because you know sometimes there's that. I want to speak to him because there's just that struggle. Sometimes we're trying to do the best that we could do and sometimes we've got difficult men to deal with. They can't handle our success. They can't handle that we are individuals. They can't handle that we may be assertive. They misplace our assertiveness and say we're aggressive when we're not, we're just being assertive.
Speaker 3:Where the fear comes in, in men and this is just my opinion Just quickly who have successful wives.
Speaker 2:Yeah.
Speaker 3:Where the fear comes in is you're becoming so successful that you're going to leave me behind and you're not going to want me. So what stops them from? I have to put my thumb.
Speaker 2:On you yeah. Yeah, but why don't they just say let me, let me do something that's going to keep me happy too?
Speaker 3:Easier said than done. Pride right. The man feeling that oh God forbid if the woman makes more than the man.
Speaker 2:Yeah.
Speaker 3:You know what I mean, and some men can't handle that.
Speaker 2:Some of them go out and have affairs.
Speaker 3:Right right.
Speaker 2:Yeah.
Speaker 3:To do what? To validate themselves?
Speaker 2:Who knows why, yeah, yeah.
Speaker 3:Yeah. So what I would say is study her, be the best version of yourself that you can be, strive to be, and if you feel like you're not there, there's always help. There's coaches around, there are mentors. Get in the room with people that are doing marriage or doing life better than what you're doing right, and then you'll grow into that.
Speaker 2:And just be authentic in your marriage. Yeah, that's, it, just be authentic. Thank you so much for joining us today.
Speaker 1:Be Authentic. Thank you so much for joining us today. Wasn't that episode amazing Living unapologetically, faith unmuted has allowed us once again to ask ourselves the kind of questions that will help us get to the next level and live this life unapologetically. Your next step head on over to wwwesthergramcom and let me know what your favorite episode is. Ask a question or share this with a friend. I can't wait to be with you next week as we dive deeper into redefining what it means to be a Christian woman and redefining what it means to live in our truth.