Planning Board 08/06/2026

(Episode Description is AI generated and may be errors in accuracy)

Route 44 redevelopment sounds straightforward until you put real traffic numbers, curb cut rules, and neighbor concerns on the record. We open the Raynham Planning Board meeting by laying out the quasi-judicial ground rules, then move quickly into a public hearing for the Washville site plan at 235 New State Highway, the former IHOP property. The applicant team walks us through a 4,933 square foot single-tunnel car wash with vacuum stalls, pay stations, and a circulation plan meant to keep cars moving while reducing impervious surface and adding landscaping.

From there, the conversation gets specific and useful: where employees park, how one-way movements work around the vacuums, what the traffic study assumes, and what happens if drivers try risky left turns on a corridor already known for crashes. We also clarify the approval pathway, including why a special permit vote threshold matters and why MassDOT curb cut permitting can become the real gatekeeper before any building permit is issued.

The second major hearing is a town priority, too: the new 49,000 square foot public safety building at 53 Orchard Street. We talk phasing to keep the fire station running, secured parking and cruiser storage, EV chargers, stormwater infiltration systems, retaining walls, and screening along tight property edges. We close with forward-looking policy work on data center zoning, focusing on water demand, electricity load, backup generators, and how to regulate emerging infrastructure uses without rushing flawed bylaw language.

Subscribe for more local planning and zoning decisions, share this with a neighbor, and leave a review. What part of the process do you want us to explain more next time?

Transcript

Call To Order And Meeting Rules

SPEAKER_09 0:00

Anyway, some stuff that we have to do on the air. Um okay August 6th, this is the Rainham Planning Board uh meeting. You can watch it live in person, or you can see it on Comcast Channel 98 or Verizon Channel 34 audio and video. Um calling the meeting to order. Um Chris Gallagher, the chairman. To my right is Anthony Nicoley, the vice chairman, to his right is Pam and Tony, the clerk. Um basically the way we run a meeting, just so everyone knows, is you know, we go through the agenda and we talk about everything that's on it and nothing that's not on it, so it's just the you know, sticking just the agenda. Um Frank said he sent me an email this morning and he's traveling for work, so I guess it's just the three of us. Um so when we open up a topic, whether it be a public hearing or a topic on the agenda, I introduce the topic. Um sometimes I go to each board member and they speak when recognized. I don't let anyone else in the audience speak unless they're recognized. In the case of a public hearing, which we have a couple tonight, when we're done, I'll invite the applicant up. He can present his case after they present it, comes back to me to discussion, then I go to each board member, and then if we have questions for the applicant or their representative, we fire them out. Um, and then we go to the public if there's any public interested, and in all cases it's a raise of hand, and you've got to be recognized by the chairman just to keep order in the meeting, because as Bob Newton would say, this is a quasi-judicial meeting. Remember, have you heard that in a while? So that being said, I'm gonna call the

Minutes, Bills, And Certificates

SPEAKER_09 2:09

meeting to order. The first thing they are on the agenda is the minutes of July 16, 2026. Did everyone have a chance to look at those minutes? Does anyone want to make a motion to accept the minutes as written and wave the reading of them?

SPEAKER_04 2:27

I'll make a motion to accept uh minutes as written and waive the reading of that.

SPEAKER_09 2:32

Anyone want to second that? Any discussion? Hearing none. All in favor say aye. Aye. Okay. Um what we have is uh 605. We get two more minutes. We did invoices and bills. Um we have to sign the certificate of action on Spruce Street Estate Lots. I don't know if everyone got a chance to read it. I read it, had some modifications with Maureen, and then she reissued it. And um Anthony, do you have a chance to look it over? Yeah, have any issues with it? Pam, did you have a chance? Have any issues? Um then I'd entertain a motion to enable me to sign that. So move second all in favor. Do you have a copy of that or is that with me? Okay, so these two. Okay, so hand that down tomorrow. Okay, six oh five. Okay, so it's six oh five.

Public Hearing Opens For Washville

SPEAKER_09 4:06

We have a public hearing at the two thirty-five New State Highway, Washville site plan. This is the old uh Bigfoot's IHOP Z den for anyone that's been around here a really long time. Um so we have a public hearing notice uh that will be read by our clerk proceed.

SPEAKER_06 4:31

In accordance with the provisions of MGL, Chapter 40A and 41, Section 81T and 81U, the Ranham Planning Board will hold a public hearing on Thursday, August 6, 2026, at 6.05 p.m. at Rainham Veterans Memorial Town Hall, 558 South Main Street, on application for site plan approval submitted by Francis X. Daugherty, authorized representative for proposed redevelopment, including the removal of the existing building at 235 New State Highway and for the construction of a 4,933 square foot single tunnel car wash with 19 vacuum spaces and three pay stations. Locust property 235 New State Highway, formerly IHOP Restaurant, assesses map 14 lot 226, Rainham Mass. Any person wishing to be heard or interested in the proposed plan should appear at the time and place designated. A copy of the plan and application may be viewed in full at Rainham Planning Board or Town Clerk's office at Rainham Veterans Memorial Town Hall.

SPEAKER_09 5:33

Okay, thank you, Pam. Um before we start, it must be the applicant's representative. I just want to let you know this is a site plan that usually requires site plan approval requires special permit. Um we you know aired in advertising it that way. Um we can still open it and you know have you do your presentation, present evidence. Just so you know, special permit, you need a supermajority, which is a four vote out of five. Uh we only have three here. The other two members can miss one meeting. And they can also like read any evidence here, which I'm sure they'll do. So I just wanted to point that out and uh make it be up to you whether you proceed with the three of us. Okay, so uh they can miss they can they can issue um they can they can hear the the uh this presentation via remotely and then get caught up yeah and they can actually pull whatever paperwork's there you know if they miss more than one they have to sign a thing saying yeah I saw all the evidence. Okay, so I can act on it.

SPEAKER_14 6:53

Okay, yeah, I think I think we'd like to proceed so okay.

SPEAKER_09 6:56

So um I'll uh read into the record any correspondence, then I'll ask my members if they have any issues before I hand it over to you. Okay. So I have one letter um from Kali Brady, our new sewer superintendent, and there's a discrepancy between what she was told the gallon flow is, and I talked to John Chase, water superintendent. There was a discrepancy between the two values, so you have to figure that out with them. Water and sewer really is not jurisdiction, um, but they commented so that we know that for the record. Um we also had not sent this out for review yet to a review engineer. We put this out to three different engineers, we gave them a deadline, only one of them met the deadline. Um so before we start, I'm gonna suggest that we select this engineer because the others had their chance and didn't, and we worked with them before the JC Engineering out of feast Wareham uh gave a proposal not to exceed 3,500 to review your site plan for compliance, the planning board is only. Um I don't know if the other members had a chance to look at this. Um are you okay with just picking JC anything?

SPEAKER_04 8:35

Yeah, yeah, especially if I want to do that.

SPEAKER_09 8:37

I mean, I don't want to hold these guys up because the other people didn't meet the deadline. Um would you be okay with this as well, Pam?

SPEAKER_06 8:46

Yeah, you don't excuse me, but they didn't submit a proposal.

SPEAKER_09 8:52

Okay, and I didn't entertain a motion just to accept JTC Engineering's proposal to review this. So moved. Second any discussion? Aaron None, all in favor? Okay, that's all we had for correspondence. Um I've looked at your plans, I'm familiar with them, but um if any of the board members, does anyone have any issues, or can we hand it over to the applicant? No, okay. So I'd like to tell you to introduce yourself, uh, you know, give your name and address, and um present your project.

Car Wash Site Plan Walkthrough

SPEAKER_09 9:27

Sure.

SPEAKER_14 9:27

Uh my name is Philip Henry with Civil Design Group. I'm a registered professional engineer in the state of Massachusetts. Um what I'll do is I'll give just a brief overview and then I'm happy to answer any specific technical questions. I did want to touch upon um at the start of this project on our end, I believe I reached out to the building inspector to confirm the um allowed that this was an allowed use. And I have an email, I don't have it on me, and I I did not I do not I do not recall that he said that it requires a special use permit, that it was just site plan approval.

SPEAKER_09 10:03

I could clear that up, but what what the way rainham zoning works, okay. One, I had talked to Bob and it's an allowed use. If it's not an allowed use, you can't do it. Section three of the rainham zoning uh bylaws and the use variance is not allowed. They just can't do it even if they wanted to. So as far as I know, that's not an issue in Bob said it's an allowed use.

SPEAKER_14 10:30

Okay. So I guess is is there a distinction between a project that requires site plan approval and then special permit?

SPEAKER_09 10:40

No. Right now, it used to be you just had site plan approval.

SPEAKER_14 10:44

Okay.

SPEAKER_09 10:45

A year or two ago we passed a bylaw that you needed a special permit. Site plan approval was true special permit on the planning board. The reason is it wasn't, it had no teeth before. So appeal period it meant nothing.

SPEAKER_14 11:01

Okay.

SPEAKER_09 11:01

So by special permit is typically how every town does it. So that allows any butter to have an appeal period, it allows the applicant. It's just more of a legal thing. So cycling approval is through special permit, which requires the supermajority to vote certified.

SPEAKER_14 11:20

Okay, understood. Okay. Um all right, like I said, I'll just give a brief overview and I'm happy to answer any specifics. So um I'm sure everyone's familiar with the site. It's the abandoned or vacant IHOP, uh 235 New State Highway, Route 44. The site's just over an acre, and it's it's this is the existing conditions here. What you see in this gray hatch is the asphalt. Uh, those of you familiar with it, it's pretty much asphalt from lotline to lotline. The existing structure is here. Um we have not received the water and sewer comments, so if perhaps if Maureen can forward that to us electronically, we can um we can circulate that. I don't recall issuing or uh indicating any any uh types of flow, but but we can clarify that. Um sewer does go out the back of the site. Um it's a cross-country sewer heater that runs up along the rear of the lock line, just uh just uploading the off of the river. Um what what we plan to do uh is remove all this the existing site elements on site, including the building, all the pavement, uh, strip it all, and then construct a 4,900 square foot uh automotive uh wash station or wash facility located here in this gray hatch. Um the the site will be accessed, we're largely reusing, we're largely re-reusing the existing curve cuts there. Um we're we're bringing them into what we think is compliance with DOT standards. Uh so obviously access and maneuvers will have to get approved ultimately by the state. Uh but we think we're sort of cleaning that that geometry up. Um so the structures located on the left side, so you would enter it enter the wash by uh by this east uh westerly uh cut here, and there's a double Q lane that leads into three stations where you would pay, or if you have a subscription, you would go right through. And then that funnels down to a single lane, obviously, if you go through the conveyor. There's also uh, should you decide that you don't want to go or bypass, reincorporate the bypass, which we think is a good practice. And then once you get out of the wash, you can either get back onto uh route 44 or you can circle in into the backs, uh into the vacuum area, and then you can just a single line, and then we back out, and you should either go this way or come out on uh root 44 this way. Um, some other site elements, uh, trash is located here. Um the vacuums are located along the sidewalk here, and then along this gravel strip here. Um we think it's it's um a zoning, a compliant with zoning in terms of setbacks and landscape areas and such. Uh we are decreasing uh impervious area by about 8,000 square feet, so we consider that a plus. Uh we're adding, I think, um, eight trees and over 200 shrubs and ground covers throughout the site. Um there is uh an electrical easement, electric company easement, that we've had to consider and maintain that their access. So so we've we've done that, we've been into initial discussions with them, and um, so that's what this gravel, we're just extending that gravel driveway here. Um that's that's the 10,000-foot view. I'm happy to answer any specifics if you'd like.

SPEAKER_09 15:10

Just a couple questions from me, and then I'll ask Anthony and Pam. Um, so there's no garage base at all. Um there's any employees on site?

SPEAKER_14 15:23

So, yeah, so there's no like self-service base. You stay in your car, you get on the belt, and then you push through. Um, I don't know, will there be employees in the house?

SPEAKER_10 15:36

For the record, my name is Frank Doherty with Washville Car Wash. Um, we typically have, again, depending on the time of year, uh, anywhere from three to five full-time employees while we're while we're open.

SPEAKER_09 15:49

Okay, the reason I asked is where's the where do they park?

SPEAKER_10 15:54

Um generally um one of three things happen. Sometimes they carpool, and therefore there's no need for parking. Sometimes uh if they live local, they get dropped off or they ride their bike. Um but otherwise, if they come with their own vehicle, um we typically have them park in one of the vacuum spaces and have not found that to be an operational problem.

SPEAKER_07 16:20

Okay.

SPEAKER_10 16:21

There are times in the spring, you know, high pollen season, dirty car season, um, where so we recognize those vacuum spaces are needed and we ask people not to to park there, the employees and they discarpool.

SPEAKER_09 16:33

Okay, you only you know ask that for a couple reasons, and and you actually have room in the top right corner to throw in a few extra parking spots if you need, but I think that might be a design.

SPEAKER_14 16:47

It's actually two non-backing spaces in this parking lot too.

SPEAKER_09 16:51

So just the thought, you know, it's you could reduce an impervious. Yeah, you had you paved property line to property line. Um I know the site, I grew up right to the left of it. Um so you have the road to give, it's more of a reconstruction project. Um and that's about all I could think of, just the garage and the really spaces. I don't, you know, we're gonna have a review for your clients, the zoning and all that you are reconstruction of the existing site.

SPEAKER_04 17:35

Um any questions. Something jumped out at me during the presentation. It's the traffic flow. So this is north is south, right? North is the top of this? Is it I guess it doesn't matter, but on the south side of the image here. Yeah. When you when you exit the car wash and you loop into the vacuum, yeah. Is that a one-way? Yeah, is it two-way? No, so it's the very bottom. Yeah, that's a one-way, so people exiting the vacuum have to go have to exit on the right-hand side. They cannot go back through that and potentially head on with something kind of.

SPEAKER_14 18:08

No, they can they can go out here or or they can do this. Yeah, something else. Right, but it's leaving the vacuum there. Oh, yeah, leaving the vacuum, they they they have to go. Okay. That was a concede something. Oh, I think I said I think I did say that to go out this way.

SPEAKER_04 18:21

Yeah, that's why it's like and then any of the um pay stations member only, or all three will be two kind of like a typically we have um one as a you know non-member station, the other two are member only. So one non-member only try to close to check that out.

SPEAKER_06 18:47

When you're in the vacuum area and you I go down and want to get, is it do you have to like back back out? Is there a space to like turn around? Do you have to do a three-point turn when we could be visual? Yeah. So walk me through if I go there. Do I have to it I'm trying to avoid like a traffic jam. I go in and I want to vacuum my car and look up. I gotta only go back before do like a three-point turn, like what's this point there?

SPEAKER_14 19:14

Yeah, that's a good question. So um the drive value is is is wider than difficulty. It's 30 feet because it's and we doubled up the the 88 spectrum here. So should you not find a back? Uh you can you can drive the drive into the 88 spectrum with the space that so this criteria will be guaranteed available, just like any of any of these other spaces that they're not.

SPEAKER_06 19:51

So the AD, like parking space.

SPEAKER_14 19:55

Yeah, just the space, not the parking space. The food criteria associated with that ability parts in that. So what we do is we we double that up as the ability for some of the momentarily attack gas and that.

SPEAKER_06 20:09

But you still feel like three with any kind of high.

SPEAKER_10 20:19

So what we have is um wider than typical back space. And then the area that you're backing out is wider than a typical two-lane roadway. Typical two-lane road is 24 feet, this is 30 feet. So both people can back out and not worry about having any traffic check. Picture the worst shopping center at Christmas time. Everyone's sort of struggling to get in and out. We make our spaces wider to avoid those sort of conflicts, you know, during our peak usage time. Exactly. And we took the 25.

SPEAKER_04 20:56

No, we took the 30 feet that's in between the lines. Yeah, the space. Yeah. Not full width of the button.

SPEAKER_14 21:04

So the part the spaces, the vacuum space is 20 feet beams are larger than an 18 foot and a 14 feet wide, so like the weak more extra space for the movability. And you know, I'd like to think, to answer your question, I'd like to think that if so, in your scenario, every vacuum space is full. And you have somebody right here, and then you have people following, right? So I mean I'd like to think that I'd like to think that if someone sees that, they would they would either stop it. Even if they pull down, because it's very deep wide, they would have the ability to hug and say the right side while somebody turns back.

SPEAKER_09 21:46

Just to clarify typical topic squad 9 by 18 is a 10 by 20, and a typical throw is two 12 foot lanes, uh, and they're So you typically would be 24. And so you could actually have three cars wide in the thing, but you could pass around another car if you had to.

SPEAKER_14 22:12

Yeah, I guess what we're trying to portray then we we might think that you put thought of that worst case scenario, and this is the best configuration for can you tell I've been the parsing starting?

SPEAKER_06 22:24

No comment. I own it, yeah. Okay. Um I do agree with you about the parking spaces, though. I'm not convinced that everybody in this day and age carpools may be in out of touch, so I I have reservations on the president. Okay.

SPEAKER_04 22:38

I think there should be some kind of second degrees carpools.

SPEAKER_10 22:42

Deliveries are I mean you have the room for it's just the buttons, that'd be an issue if we just add it. Yeah. So we operate 28 of these car watching four now before we're starting to fall. So we sort of have a good sense of operational perspective. The answer is yes, we'll make more spaces, but we always try to balance you need a pavement versus you don't need a pavement pavement. So that's where our balance comes from. Um happy to take a look at it again and add a few more spaces if it makes sound more comfortable.

SPEAKER_09 23:17

You could also just add future possible pocket spaces if we find an issue.

SPEAKER_10 23:27

We know that on average we have a vehicle that takes about 90 seconds to get through here. We also know on average people spend about three and a half minutes vacuuming their car. If you do the math, there's enough vacuum spaces given that process. So we add a few more spaces because you don't have to go through here to use the tree vacuum. Some people just scoot in and vacuum their car and then leave without washing the car. That's fine. But um through our operational experience, we're comfortable that this would work fine. But be happy to, and I like your idea, future spaces if if needed, and we'll just administratively talk to Township. We're gonna pave those three spaces, and if something like that would work, that would be fine with us.

SPEAKER_04 24:07

What two spots are not the vacuum spots? The stretch. Okay, so right next to the strike spot.

SPEAKER_09 24:17

Okay, anyone have anything else?

Abutter Raises Traffic And Noise Concerns

SPEAKER_09 24:21

Okay, um, is there anyone from the audience that uh uh would like to talk about this proposal? Okay, here is okay. Uh you want to come on up to that folder? State your name for those kids. And again, anything you know addressed through the chair, and then I can ask it later.

SPEAKER_01 24:51

Thank you. My name is Steve Broadley. I've been asked to appear and represent the the feelings or the reactions of an abutter. The Dodge dealership is right next door to this location. Um, and I will tell you that um I've seen this information for about seven or ten days, and most of what I'm gonna say is distilled from what I found mostly in their traffic report. I don't know if the three of you have read through the traffic report all the way. It's a lot, it's a little dense, but there's some high points that I think merit consideration as you look at this. One that jumps off the page at me is that State Highway 44 is already in the top 5% in the Commonwealth for crashes. There's 24,000 vehicles passing by this area every day, and based on the state the state data that's included in that report, they average at measuring from the two lighted intersections that are on both sides of this location, they average about 20 crashes involving personal injury a year. Um they they counted up 93 in a five-year period, and 31 of those involved personal injury. Their traffic, and the next thing that jumped off the page at me is that their traffic analysis assumes that this use, in excess of what use there would have been if a restaurant had stayed there, this will add another 550 trips, new trips, through that area of 44 on a daily basis. They, I think their data suggests that they they see for a car wash of this size about 1,250 car wash trips daily. I don't know if their in their data, I can't really tell, and maybe they can answer that when I finish, if their data includes people who don't go through the car wash, but they just want to come in and vacuum. I have some information indicating there's a lot more people that do that than come and pay $12, $15, whatever for a car wash. They want to get clean, they use a vacuum that's there. So that would mean that in addition to the count of 550 new trips daily, there'd be more. There are no crosswalks in this immediate area. You know, when he talks about when he talks about employees possibly coming to work by bike, there really aren't any bike lanes. This this highway is not up to DOT standards in terms of providing usage. It says, the report says there's a a sidewalk on the north side. That's the other side of the highway. There's nothing on this side. So people that come to work on their bikes, they're going to be at risk. I don't know, I don't live here, I haven't seen the traffic through there and whether many people use it for biking. Between the two lights that are on both sides, there are dozens of non-signal intersections. That means you've got cars coming in, going out, and you know, although it's not legal, that a bunch of those people, when they come out of one of those places, aren't just going to turn right. They're going to go and they're going to cross over those double yellow lines and go left. So you've got people going both ways coming in and both ways coming out. The expectation of their traffic engineer is that this you asked questions about the circulation in there. They said that they expected that this system that is outlined here would operate at a level of E or F on a scale of A through F. Not the greatest of circulation. I think, quite frankly, they're trying to squeeze a whole lot more than this one-acre lot can really handle. So as I look at this, as a newcomer to it, I sat by Route 44 and I watched some of the traffic. And you know, you get spurts of traffic when the lights release and so on. You're adding all these hundreds of new uses a day. You're going to make it more of a speedway. You're just going to make 44. It's just, I think it's just adding something that's not necessary. There's um, I think, although it's not directly applicable, that it would be appropriate to consider this as a parallel to an application for special permit for a gas station. That's in zoning code 357.4. And there you have to have a reasonable public need to put in something else. You got two car washes here, one about a mile and a half one way, and one about half a mile or less the other way, already in this strip. It's not clear that the town of Rainham needs another car wash, but I think that that would be an issue that this board should consider and think about. Because there's you you're you have an overall zoning code uh purpose, which is to reduce congestion. Everything about this doesn't say I'm reducing congestion. Everything about this says I'm increasing congestion. There's no way around it. You can try to you can try to smooth out the report by the engineers, but there's nothing that you can do about that. And and that goes contrary to the overall zoning code. One last issue, one last issue is um you do have a zoning, I mean, sorry, you do have a noise ordinance here. It's not expressly clear, but it does say that you can't have unnecessary, excessive, or unusual noises. Car washes make a lot of noise. You got vacuums going all the time, you got you got the the doors opening in the tunnel, and they can if there's a lot of noise, that would be another issue, I think. That's zone, that's your general code 2 uh slash 11.2. I think that should be a consideration that you should that you should make as well. Um I think that's all I have.

MassDOT Permits And Traffic Review

SPEAKER_09 31:33

I will accept any just I'll give you a quick response from my end. Um we haven't gone through the traffic study, that's gonna go through the review engineer, so I don't want to sit and go through a study that we're not experts at um and go through their numbers just quickly. You had 1,250 trips a day, had somebody go and pull it in there every minute, which seems excessive. 24 hours, um, that seems pretty high. Every minute there'd be a car pulling in, so I think that's probably a generous number. Um again. Um I think we're gonna have to make it part of JC's scope when this goes to him to look at the traffic and get back on an opinion. Um as far as the three car washes, I mean, it's an allowed use, they want to try it. I mean, every time you put up a McDonald's, you get a great king. I mean, that's it's that's a marketing thing, that's up to them. I mean, Rainham, do we need another car wash? Did we need two Walmart's? I mean, you know, I don't know. Uh, but it's an allowed use, that's up to them on their marketing strategy. Um and again, we'll we'll look at the uh the traffic. They have a traffic study, we'll have that reviewed. We're not experts, we're not capable of really reviewing it. Um they're gonna have to go through the state for this. If the state doesn't think it's an allowed thing or think it's gonna cause an issue, they're gonna pipe up because they're gonna have to um like we can approve a site plan, but that means nothing as far as their access in and out. They have to go to Mass DOT because that's a Mass DOT highway. So they're gonna have to get their curb cuts and they look at traffic, you know, DOT does, whether you need a turning lane, anything like that. So they get that hurdle to jump, but you know, your comments are noted, uh, but we'll have to see what our traffic man says and comes back and we'll probably rely on whatever he says. If he thinks their study's good, he'll say it's good. If he doesn't think it's good, he'll come back and say where it's flawed.

SPEAKER_01 33:56

Thank you. Can I ask one question? Yes. How does the state process relate to this? Is it begin on a different time track? Uh I don't know the state's time track.

SPEAKER_09 34:07

Uh does it get referred to the state specifically? He can't pull a in our conditions, you have to have all federal and state permits before you get a building permit. So our building commissioner will not issue a permit unless they have a curb cut and approved by the state. So they won't be, you know, they're dead in the water till they get through the state because they won't get a building permit. So however long that takes, that's on that. I don't I I used to do curb cut permits. I haven't done one. I'm actually doing one on 138, but I haven't done one in a long time. So I don't know how efficient they are at a state level. Is that also? No, that's it. Thank you. Okay, thank you.

SPEAKER_04 34:54

That's an curve you have to say.

SPEAKER_09 34:57

We don't need to use it. Um any of the board members care to add anything?

SPEAKER_04 35:11

The noise ordinance was a curious one to me because there's so many other car washers that don't have that issue.

SPEAKER_06 35:16

So I don't think that was well, it could be that they have it, and it's a closer.

SPEAKER_09 35:20

Oh, one question I did have the car dealership might be noisier to What are the hours on this? Yeah, good question. Probably 24-7.

SPEAKER_10 35:30

No, they're not. No? No, so it um Monday through Saturday, 7 30 a.m. to 7 p.m. Sunday, eat the five. Uh when we're closed, the free vacuum is turned off. No one's allowed on the site, so there will be no one there late at night just deciding to detail their car or do things they shouldn't do. Um in I can comment on noise if that's of interest, or I can wait until the next year. We'll wait. I don't think that's an issue.

SPEAKER_09 36:00

But at the appropriate time. If so, you're over 12 hours a day. So that's by your traffic numbers, that's a car every 30 seconds be pulling in. You'd be a rich man.

SPEAKER_10 36:12

Yeah, I I I think it's wise to wait for the traffic report to come back with and then we can all sort of talk about the same facts and so on.

SPEAKER_09 36:19

It's like reading Chinese to us, so it's you know um okay.

Continuance Set For Washville

SPEAKER_09 36:25

If there's nothing else to add, no other public comment, uh we have to send it out for review. I JC's usually pretty good. Um next meeting September 3rd, we could continue it till then if you'd like.

SPEAKER_10 36:42

Thank you. Yes, we would.

SPEAKER_09 36:45

And we'll get that in Maureen if you could emphasize to JC to look at the traffic study, yeah, which he might not have put in his scope, and that's okay. We're we're requesting it.

SPEAKER_10 36:58

Okay, thank you.

SPEAKER_09 36:59

Okay, thank you.

Public Safety Building Hearing Begins

SPEAKER_09 37:01

Okay, the next public hearing is uh 610 public safety building for town of Rainham. Um again, it's a new hearing, so our clerk Pam and Coney has a hearing notice to read.

SPEAKER_06 37:21

In accordance with provisions of MGL Chapter 40A and 41, section 81T and 81U, the Rainham Planning Board will hold a public hearing on Thursday, August 6, 2026, at 6.10 p.m. at Rainham Veterans Memorial Town Hall, 558 South Main Street, on application for abbreviated site plan approval submitted by Robert I.F. Raydy, Rainham Building Commissioner, for the phased construction of a new 49,000 square foot public safety building at 53 Orchard Street assesses map 11, plot 158-0, Rainham Maps. Any person wishing to be heard or interested in the proposed plan should appear at the time and place designated. A copy of the plan and application may be viewed in full at Rangham Planning Board or Town Clerk's office at Rainham Veterans Memorial Town Office.

SPEAKER_09 38:12

Okay, thank you. So the board was okay. I'm a registered professional engineer who has done civil site work for 30, 40 years and site plans and subdivisions. So I reviewed it instead of sending it out myself. I found a ton of stuff wrong with it. Just busting your chops. But I uh no, I re I reviewed it for um, you know, compliance with zoning, your drainage. Um I found you know all your uh assumptions were reasonable. Um you know, you have your leach and drainage and everything to absorb the extra impervious you put out back. I still wish we bought all three of them houses and tore them down. You know, that was my thought five years ago, but nobody wanted to go with it. But um so I reviewed it, I didn't do a letter, everything seemed to comply. Uh you were, you know, close on one side, you're about 20 feet off the property line, it's pretty tight the way your traffic flow. Um I mean good luck to everyone coordinating this whole thing and keeping public safety open. Um just for the record, I don't know if the town pays fees for site plan, but I thought we'd make a motion to waive the fees if there any are incurred if the rest of the members are cool with that. Someone want to make a motion to that effect?

SPEAKER_04 40:07

Yeah, I'd make a motion to waive the fees so we're kind of second any discussion.

SPEAKER_09 40:14

All in favor? Okay. Um does anyone on the board first with Anthony have any questions on this?

SPEAKER_06 40:25

Um for the record I did check with ethics and I am permitted to participate. Um I filed the 268A, which Bob and Marcia have on file. Um if the site was in a different location, I would not be permitted to participate because it would be a financial gain and things can be a little shorter or financial loss longer. So um I just wanted to throw that out there for anybody who might be wondering.

SPEAKER_09 40:54

Well, just for the record PM's husband mock as a fine.

SPEAKER_06 40:59

Um and then I just wanted to circle back to the engineering. Um I think you're a awesome engineer, but I just want to make sure that we're not doing anything like inappropriate by not sending it out to bid or keeping it in-house. Like, if you can tell me why it's okay that we do that, I'm not saying it's not okay. I just want to check off that box in my head that we're not doing anything that we shouldn't be doing by having a member of our board review it. I mean, like I said, you're a registered engineer, you're a good engineer, but I just want to make sure if we get asked about this later on, that we're not like, oh, he's an employee of the town, he reviewed it. I just I need a little reassurance on that.

SPEAKER_09 41:42

Um I think, you know, I'm equally as qualified than anyone that we, and then a lot more so than a lot that we sent out. Um I think it's fine, and I take that chance of someone giving me a hard time on it. Um I've done a lot of engineering on this site actually. I did the septic system before Sewell was here. I know the soil. I've dug it up. I did the addition to the police station, addition to the fire station, the town hall, all the parking lot, you know, the you know, the entrance on the one side, all the back park. So I've pretty much designed half that site, you know, over the years piecemeal. So I think we're pretty safe.

SPEAKER_06 42:26

Yeah, it's not your qualifications that are questioning at all. It's the the methodology of delivery.

SPEAKER_09 42:32

Yeah. I mean, if is heat off, I'd be willing to take any heat and deflect it from the board. But that being said, anyone have an issue with me reviewing it?

unknown 42:45

Okay.

SPEAKER_04 42:46

Is there anything in the bylaws anyway that's just no.

SPEAKER_09 42:50

No, I mean typically we could review everything that comes in front of us. Yeah, we generally do, but I mean I you know trying to trying to save a few dollars, you know. Uh once this thing's built, I don't know if we'll have money for police cruises. So but uh with that being said, if you guys would like to have your the applicant or the applicant's representative come up, introduce themselves, and uh give an overview of your project. And again, this is abbreviated site plan, so it doesn't have the same threshold ownership.

Phasing Plan And Site Circulation

SPEAKER_13 43:28

Uh Chip High Camp, Dornwittier Architect's uh project manager. Uh we have a team with us today from uh Langan Associates who uh did our civil and landscape um engineering. Um we have uh John Perry, uh Rachel, and Megan joining us today. Um so they'll um they can speak to the civil on site, and uh Don Walter uh from Dorn Whittier is here as well, um and we can speak to the architecture of the building. Um we'll let um uh John and company deal with uh kind of handle a lot of uh the civil stuff. But uh very excited to be here. Thank you for. Taking the time. It's been in the works for a while, so we're excited for the time. And uh new facility. And you do make a good point here about the uh phasing of the project. So you will see um we are planning on keeping the existing fire portion of the building open during the construction. So what you'll see is an early um abatement demolition of the police building. And then we will um make uh provisions to the fire station so that it can stay open while the rest of the building is is constructed. So um again, then that is um will be displayed here for John's drawing. So that's um here.

SPEAKER_09 44:45

So turn it over to you guys. Um, you have an easel with your eyes.

SPEAKER_02 44:52

We do here actually. Okay, easel is a little flimsy, and these are big boys, so we're better off uh just kind of winging it here on the table if you don't feel like and then I can stand back so that the audience can uh want to pull that somewhere with the over close to you. Alright, so this is the existing conditions of the site. Hopefully, everyone can see the audience and board here. Just always like to start with the existing conditions so everything's on the same integral as there. This is on Orchard Street, the existing public safety facility, obviously. Um the site boundary is shown here in black. It's about three acres, 3.2 acres, I believe, uh site with the existing public safety building here kind of towards the street. A lot of the parking out and along the sides here as well, um, with a maintenance building and some more parking and kind of just kind of storage uh out here as well. So the plan obviously is to that upside down. So that's our whole plan as I have before. So this is the proposed site plan. The new building shown in white, and scori myself here. Yep, so on the bottom of the page here would be the fire station portion. The top of the page would be the police station portion. So you can see the apparatus bay access from Portugal Street for the fire.

unknown 46:44

This would be public parking here in the front.

SPEAKER_02 46:47

We've got about 35 public parking spaces, some landscaping. Um, and then this would be all secured and staff parking around the back. So this would be the majority of this back parking lot here would be police cruisers. Uh about 45 spaces for police cruisers here, and then there's a uh a loop driveway around where most likely more of the fire department staff will park in the back here, and then there's access around the side as well, so they can come back out to Worksham Street, so there's access around the book window. Um so you can see where you know uh if Rachel is a landscape architect, she'll talk about the landscape scheme in a few minutes. But where we have a nice kind of circulation for the parking lot there. Uh, it's a one-way access around. Uh for safety, we have got AVA parking uh along the building front end. We've got a nice entranceway here as well for public access to the building, another AVA space on the side. Uh we've got some EV chargers as well for public use uh along the side over here. There will be a radio tower in the back corner here as well. So we've got a dumpster area, the radio tower, backhouse sort of items in this area here. So it should mention before the phasing. So what the plan is right now is to keep the uh fire station uh in use while the new building is built. So you can see how we've well the architect more than us, I guess, has designed the building so that it can be situated on the site while the fire station is still there, so there's no um there's no off-site temporary um housing for the fire department and all those facilities.

SPEAKER_13 48:56

I will add there will be accommodations for the police and the north school, so that's the town you're working on. That's the seven as well, um enabling project.

SPEAKER_02 49:04

It will maintain the apparatus apron and the fire access as well. Uh so the new building will be built, and then this will be you know demolished after that's working in fully functional.

SPEAKER_13 49:17

Um and then the just add to that that the police functions of dispatch and their kind of their face of the public will still be maintained where it is today in that lower corner of, which is the center of the burn building, which will become the corner once we take down the existing fire station, the fire police station. Um so those two functions will remain at Orchard Street and not be moved to the North School just for um convenience and just because it's what's known, and they didn't want to change that, so they'll just run meetings, cruisers, and office function out of the first.

SPEAKER_02 49:56

And then the the public parking will be filled in uh after that built. This is that's kind of phase one, this is phase two of the project.

Stormwater Systems And Site Buffering

SPEAKER_02 50:12

This is the site creating a drainage plan, and we have a very robust uh stormwater drainage system on site to meet all the local requirements. Um as you mentioned before, we have four subsurface stormwater systems on site. We perform soil testing to evaluate uh soil capture and the groundwater, things of that nature, perkability. We have a large system in the back here that will infiltrate stormwater. Um just the police parking area will go here in the infiltrating. And then the vast majority of the site actually exists in green, comes down towards Fortune Street. So we have another two, one, two, three large underground um stormwater infiltration systems. And each of those have uh storm water uh suspended solids separators associated with them as well, so that the water moved before it gets into the infiltration systems. Yeah, I don't think there's any um infiltration or or uh water quality on site right now, so it should be a bigger and then so we want to show um specifically there is a few areas where we are a little bit tight to the property line, and this blue line here does represent a fairly small retaining wall as the site will be up about three feet or so from existing grid in that area. Um so we plan to use a modular block wall, and there are some images here, some examples of what those will look like. Yeah, like a ready rock, probably a big block wall. Um that'll actually pop above grave, a little bit with a nice cap on it, and that'll be used as like a barrier as well, sort of a vehicle barrier. On the side there'll be a curb and a vehicle barrier, and then on top of that we'll have a fence both for fall protection and also for screening. So there's a few different options that we're looking at. We're probably gonna do like a cedar fence that'll go secure, be secured into the top of the wall there. So a four or five-foot tall cedar fence, so that'll be a nice kind of screening buffer as well. So if there's any headlights coming through you know that side of the site, uh they won't be shining there'll help with um you know any any voices or or noise that could be traveling to it as well. A little bit. Um but uh agree so it's gonna talk a little bit about the hardscaping uh uh landscaping.

Native Landscaping And Civic Design

SPEAKER_00 53:12

I'm not calling John, I can't go over because of the boards on the side of two. I'll come on this side. So I just wanted to highlight we have uh in the the front of the building here, we have um a few plaza areas um with pedestrian paving up here right on Archer Street. This is where we're showing more of the main plaza area that will have a flagpole. Um it will have, we'll show there's a few existing monuments on site that we have to reuse in this plaza, and there'll be plenty of tiny things around there with some benches that will also show in the more of these papers up around the site or around the building. And then here we're showing the site furnishings. Um so we have very classic New England civic looking site furnishings on the site, the benches we're showing, the litter bins that we're showing the flight racks, um, all very classic New England feel. We're also incorporating monolithic granite blocks for benches and very New England it fits with the building very well. Um we are planning on using one of these uh monolithic granite blocks to do a monument sign as well for entry into the site. Uh and these are the existing monuments that exist on the site that we want to incorporate uh into the new building as well. And then here we show our planting scheme. So when we're thinking of planting, um we're thinking of balancing a lot of things. Um, of course, we want aesthetics and seasonal interest, we want it to look good when it's installed, we want it to look good in five years, we want it to look good in 20 years, um, and we want it easy to maintain. So that's been a very large part of putting this planting scheme together. We've had a lot of coordination with the town, and those who actually will be maintaining it to make sure that everything that we are proposing to install, they're comfortable with, they're happy with. Um, we're focusing on an all-native palate. Um, what that means is you know, not only is it good for the earth, it's good for our pollinators, it's good for the native species. It also doesn't need irrigation once it is established after a few years to kind of set it and forget it and um you know come in once or twice a year and clean it up in weed. But um, nothing too high maintenance, nothing that's gonna be a big burden for anyone to maintain it. But again, keeping it beautiful, um, shading the parking lot. Um we have um a lot of parking lot trees that directly shape wherever we have a larger chance of asphalt. Um, we have more trees around the plaza areas where there will be people gathering outside, um, and just you find the the front, the entry, um, and all of the high high uh traffic areas.

SPEAKER_13 56:15

Yeah, um so I put one of these out while we had the site planned up. Uh it's it's some of the renderings we have. I think you guys probably have these in the package, but um, so it's kind of two buildings. We have what we call the main house, uh, which is kind of the administration and the police department, um, apparatus bay, um kind of to the south, I believe, of Orchard Street, and then we kind of see the back here, uh, the detention facility kind of in the back and wrapping around the house building. So we have a couple more that go around um around the whole structure showcase. Again, this is just kind of a close closer image of the house case zooming in. Um so you can kind of see some of the uh some of the detail and the uh the architectural features to the four of an aerial, to the more of an aerial uh this is this is that uh the tension area here, um which is the main house is out here, um the tension area, the stally boards in the back for the PV, and then that kind of over there in that corner you can see where that will be other retainable on the job, which is uh Rachel was talking about. So this is kind of looking south. This one shows the back of um is the back of the apparatus that the retaining walls are just looking somewhere there. Um, and this is the other side of that sally forward, so this is that back kind of inside corner. You can see the house here. Um it's not a full roof, we just use it for screening. Um, so you get the good look from Orcher Street, and then we get to use this area in the back of the left to conceal all the mechanical that's gonna be that's gonna start its thing. So that's there's two features that with that. Uh here open it up to any questions and have an answer.

SPEAKER_09 58:36

Well, just quickly, if you put all the existing conditions in back up, I'm gonna give a little site history say how much we need this to happen and how we've spent a long time coming. A lot of people in the room won't remember a lot of this. This site, uh that dog leg in the back behind the parking lot, that was acquired from Bob Newton on King Street after the fact. From the parking lot up used to be one little garage for the assessor's office, one little garage for the highway garage. And Harry Carey, who was a longtime brand here person of every office, handed me a set of blueprints to keep. And they were done the month before I was born, so August of 1959 is when this building was built. And K Jess was the one decide that's built. That was when this building was originally built. So I'm gonna be 67. So that's how long this thing's been built. Uh which I held out with on it, that's how it got to be this. That was fire police and town hall. So the town hall was half of this, the other half was fire police. They've been cramped, you know. It's such a need that we have for that now, but just to give you an idea, that's been around 67 years. You know, that they've been uh, you know, the thing needs to be full those. But we're excited about it. A lot of people kind of excited. But that being said, if there's any questions that my board has, I'll hand it to Anthony.

SPEAKER_04 1:00:32

A couple on my and more just like logistics. The phased approach, fire will stay there, and people separate the police. Police will have accommodations at the door school, yeah. Or well, I mean the public facing park will be. Yes, yes, over there. Um that's gonna be demolished at some point when the building's finished, yeah, and that current building will be worth plugging. It's how what that sounds a little interesting, I'm sure that people figured it out, but I'm just curious how that will work.

SPEAKER_13 1:00:59

Sure, we will have temporary parking. Um if you just I think just the uh simply any, I think, anyway. Yeah, sorry, we didn't know if we also um we will be able to still have parking on the side, and they won't be they'll be building here, but we will be able to have parking kind of in front of where the current apparat, the new apparatus day excuse me, will be um because there this building building zone, they'll need about probably 20-30 feet, but we should still be able to get a line of cars out there and out there. So um it's not as um also you'll have less traffic than you will, you know, when we're when we're done done. So um I think it will evolve over time, and that there is, you know, like you said, there's a bit of a phasing nightmare, but nothing we haven't done throughout the project so I still have more.

SPEAKER_04 1:02:05

Uh back pocket lots gated, obviously.

SPEAKER_13 1:02:08

Yes, yeah, yeah, we have gates uh shown here and shown here as well.

SPEAKER_04 1:02:12

And then the retaining wall on that tight edge. I mean, if you look at the aerial view, actually even on your oval, there's the rest of the building and trees around there. Yeah, or all those trees coming down. Um trees on the lot, are they butter's trees?

SPEAKER_02 1:02:27

Yeah, there's probably a few that are definitely on our property here. The property line does go through like a growth of trees there. So there's been like a dedicated tree survey done. Um, but there's there'll be some pruning, and we're hoping that you know it would be more minor as possible.

SPEAKER_00 1:02:45

Yeah, the intention will be to save as much as I touch on that.

SPEAKER_05 1:03:05

That's not supposed to have a lot of things.

SPEAKER_13 1:03:16

These these trees with the white outline here, these trees are to remain.

SPEAKER_05 1:03:20

Right, I'm more concerned with that little black line.

SPEAKER_13 1:03:23

Oh here.

SPEAKER_05 1:03:24

Yeah, that applies to the black black. Oh, right, this king's tree goes.

SPEAKER_13 1:03:26

Okay, exactly. Okay, I forgot about the cell. Um, yeah, yeah.

SPEAKER_09 1:03:35

Um I think some will remain, but it will be there will be to expand on what Ann's point, which you said is I think part of the conditions, I mean, that is like one of the most important things, is the screening for the abutters on the site. And uh if it turns out not to be adequate in the future, I think we should, and we've done this in the past where we've incorporated in the conditions of approval that we can go back and further review your screening after it's built, and if stuff needs to be added, fence is pushes, anything like that, we reserve the right to be able to go back and add that.

Public Questions On Setbacks And Lights

SPEAKER_09 1:04:30

Um anyone from the public wishes to speak on this project?

SPEAKER_11 1:04:40

Uh carnivalis, I actually aligned right a halfway below below it. I think the five it's right, I think everything looks beautiful. Again, just want to voice my concern about what you just said. Um, the line of the property. Like when you say you're on the line of the property, how close are you on the line? Like, so is there a leeway from my line of the property to usually you have to have so much so much space before you even start building, so that's what I want to know. The the face of the wall would be off on our side of the property line. On your property line, yeah. How many feet from the property line? I think it's like less than a foot. Less than a foot. So what is the normal?

SPEAKER_09 1:05:23

It's the as far as screening, fencing, all that, there really is no setback. The building itself has a 20-foot rear inside, 45 front, which is the zoning setbacks. When I reviewed it, I scaled the one corner is about maybe 22 feet. And that's the only requirement by zoning. Uh it's in a residential zone, so it's a little different because it's not a commercial use. With commercial uses of residential zones have certain criteria, but this is kind of. Of exempt from a lot of stuff, but it's literally on your on your property lines and put on the walls, and so that's why.

SPEAKER_11 1:06:08

So why is it I'm just curious because if I went to build something, I couldn't do it right on the line.

SPEAKER_09 1:06:12

You could build the fence within right on your line, basically, but you couldn't build a building if it had to be 20 feet away. So the building is 20 feet away. Okay.

SPEAKER_11 1:06:23

But like so they could really gonna make sure that there's a lot of coverage, like you said, like the cany wall, a fence. I mean it doesn't bother me as well, you know, I've been looking at it for something else. It doesn't bother me. It's gonna be bigger, so I'm assuming it's gonna be light. Um design of the trees, like it's not even so that is like a big summer short. I don't know how high the lights are like a lot. Right now, it's not if it's not like I don't want to.

SPEAKER_00 1:07:04

Twenty feet high, yeah.

SPEAKER_13 1:07:06

So they should cut off at the property line, so you shouldn't have anyway. Doesn't mean you will not see lights on. That light shouldn't be you when you eye will see. No, nothing, we don't have any spotlights or anything. Um it's all at the property line where it places that uh leave on every point.

SPEAKER_09 1:07:33

You're running the retainer wall on the fence, and then it comes up, and then her house is the one with the pool. Yeah. Here. So right behind her house where the retaining wall ends and it goes up those two lines, what happens to the other screen? Yeah.

SPEAKER_02 1:07:50

Is that all fencing? We can is a fence there. We can bring that same screen, like see the screen fence through there. Well, it's a point. You do maintain these trees.

SPEAKER_13 1:08:01

Yes, I think this will thicker. I think, yeah, you know, and it's our concern, Chip, like when we looked at this for the, you know, this is where you know the the big uh, you know, where you said we might have to come back and you know, look at that and see what we'll do.

SPEAKER_11 1:08:17

That's fine. I just want to put it on the other. I mean, I I think it looks great, I think they need it, but I also just want to make sure I still might have to be able to put it. Absolutely. Thank you.

SPEAKER_04 1:08:30

Thank you. Anyone else in the public introduce yourself? Can you come back up and just re-reintroduce the stuff where you're gonna be able to do that? Oh, sorry.

SPEAKER_11 1:08:42

I should have Carrie Lewis, L E W A.

SPEAKER_09 1:08:49

Anyone else that we state the name for the record?

SPEAKER_03 1:08:57

Uh Rich Johnson from the Stone Church. Just have a question, is there anything we should be aware of in regards to property lines or anything that hasn't been discussed?

SPEAKER_13 1:09:12

So I think right now there is a there's a cut room here that will be no longer a cut room. Um so we'll be you know basically staying on our side side by side.

SPEAKER_02 1:09:22

And there's some parking that I think partly actually goes maybe over here over the property line. Currently, so that's gonna all become green space here. Okay. Yep. So we'll orbit dedicated driveway. Okay. Um we will have a nice curved line on here. Right now it's uh there might be a cut-through. There wasn't there's a break in the curve line. Yeah, here's the air is right here.

SPEAKER_03 1:09:53

Yeah, so that'll be line. Okay, so it looks like property line wise. We're not losing any spaces or anything along those lines. Okay.

SPEAKER_09 1:10:06

I actually did do a church project too. Okay. And when I did the new addition, the pocket Jim Telby says we don't have any money in the budget to pay the engineer, but you can come here any money you want, do it's always all the charge. You just gotta listen to me.

SPEAKER_03 1:10:27

Exactly. 35 years. Um when would construction technically begin for the overall project?

SPEAKER_13 1:10:37

Spring. Spring. Spring 27. Okay. Yeah, yeah, we're um we're about a month a little over a month away from going after bid. Okay.

SPEAKER_03 1:10:45

Um, and then this will uh be on the on the water for uh and would there, I know we can't uh say solidifying this time, but would there be a possibility of construction on Sunday mornings? Like maybe if it was not becoming very scheduled, we're gonna catch up.

SPEAKER_13 1:11:04

Um usually we don't do Sundays. Um they're paying more for Sunday work, so we're trying to keep them more regular hours. Okay. Um that's true, early starts too. Like we'll be managing that process as well. Logistics of the contractors probably show up.

SPEAKER_03 1:11:30

Yeah, we're just not anymore. Yeah, but that's not for it. I got that. All right. No, uh, we look forward to appreciate it.

SPEAKER_09 1:11:40

Thank you. Um anyone else?

Vote To Approve Abbreviated Plan

SPEAKER_09 1:11:44

Okay, seeing none, um I'd like to move this along and uh make a motion to uh uh hopefully approve this, but we need a plan with some sort of title that we can read from. You have a oh this is just clear to open it up and we've just looked at approval under abbreviated site plan review.

SPEAKER_04 1:12:23

Uh I can make uh motions to approve under abbreviated review. We have project title recognition project. Uh prepared by DOR. LAN industry. Um Land Engineering and Bible. So LLC.

SPEAKER_06 1:12:58

I have a second offer.

unknown 1:13:01

Okay, but open it for discussion.

SPEAKER_09 1:13:04

The only thing I had was that added condition that we get to uh revisit and any of the anything adequate we can adjust in the future. Anyone else to move forward? Okay. Motion's been made and second. All in favor. Okay, good luck.

SPEAKER_07 1:13:28

Thank you.

Continuances, Closings, And Correspondence

SPEAKER_09 1:13:41

Okay, um next thing, Liberty Way, is there a continuance letter?

unknown 1:13:48

Yeah, okay.

SPEAKER_09 1:13:50

So I mean I thought I'd start here, but I don't have it here. So yeah, there was a continuance letter. Liberty Way is a continued public hearing. Um and they requested a continuance. I'm not sure when to. Should we just make it September 3rd, Maureen?

SPEAKER_07 1:14:17

I think yes.

SPEAKER_09 1:14:19

Okay. So I'd entertain a motion to continue Liberty Way till September 3rd at 615. Yeah. So moved.

SPEAKER_07 1:14:31

Second.

SPEAKER_09 1:14:32

All in favor. Okay. Um we did invoices and bills. Uh we have an account closing. Do we have to vote on that? Yeah. Walmart. Okay. Account closing Walmart 2003. I think it's complete. So it entertained a motion to what are we going to do?

SPEAKER_07 1:14:56

Close that and return the funds.

SPEAKER_09 1:15:00

Okay. Motion to that effect?

SPEAKER_04 1:15:03

Uh so so moved.

SPEAKER_09 1:15:05

All in favor? I okay. We had a correspondence with GPI.

SPEAKER_04 1:15:11

Uh, I'm not going to vote on anything, but for the record.

SPEAKER_09 1:15:18

Okay, all this was was a well, we'd be voting a set of bond or now.

SPEAKER_04 1:15:23

Yeah, I don't know that we've had that cover.

SPEAKER_09 1:15:25

Um, well, we'll have to table that. The division of fisheries and wildlife, it was just an informational. They every now and then draft a new habitat map. They have a comment period. If anyone sees any areas in the map, they don't think there's a turtle, I guess, or a salamander. We can take issue. Uh just informational serpent update. Frank's not here. Um associate

Associate Member Interview Logistics

SPEAKER_09 1:15:58

planning board member interviews. Um had three applicants, one um um withdrew a day or so ago. So we have um David Young and Tim Wells, and Tim had put in before. Um, but Tim apparently is not out of town, but he said he'd be available by phone later if we wanted to call him. Um and David Young, is David Young in the audience? Okay, there's no David Young. We have to, we we have a scheduled meeting to um be with the planning board on Tuesday night. The select board. Are we out of the planning board? Yeah, senior moment. Um okay, so Mr. Young's not here, um, not available. I think we had a few members actually in favor of Tim Wells. I I can call Tim. Um just let him know. I mean, we don't have our other members here. I know Ryan said that I think last meeting he was in favor of him. I don't know where Frank stands. Um we're gonna probably wait until we have a joint vote.

SPEAKER_06 1:17:45

Um so do you want me to call to them or do you want to Yeah, I mean I think that's last meeting is that not necessarily to give anybody an opportunity to speak about what they want to do why they're looking for it. I don't want to speak to them, but I think about mindly hiring some of the competition. I I would rather just speak to him why hold on because I don't know them yet.

SPEAKER_09 1:18:26

Um so basically the other ones are not available to interview or just didn't show up. Uh Tim I had told him, unfortunately, that I would definitely be before seven. Oh, that's close enough.

SPEAKER_06 1:18:43

I mean, I I will say too that like in keeping it like so that it's not so formal, I mean, if we don't want to put him on the speaker phone at 719, he can call my cell phone and you know I'm open to that too.

SPEAKER_09 1:18:55

I don't want to make it uncomfortable for anybody or instead of speaker phone, let me let me call then and tell him um I'm gonna share his number to the other board members.

SPEAKER_06 1:19:09

He can call me tomorrow and I don't know if Frank would want to talk about it.

SPEAKER_09 1:19:12

Tim, I'm gonna share your number with the other board members and they can call and talk to you separately. Period. The other applicants did not show up tonight. If you're okay with that, let me know. Okay, the last thing we have, and I'm glad you guys are all here, Selectman, especially on Select Board, whatever. This woman come in for something trying to teach me how to talk new one time. And I kept saying, I've been talking like this for sixty-something years, and she kept messing up and saying selectmen, I kept going, gotcha. And she said, you know, you're right. I won't reprogram you.

Data Center Bylaw Strategy Talk

SPEAKER_09 1:20:50

Um the last thing we have a discussion um that Pam and Tony had uh put in, and you know, the way we're putting things on the agenda is we have someone puts it in, puts the information uh, you know, into in the request into either me or Maureen, and then we can review it and put it on. And this is something that um is something that's gonna probably have to be addressed, you know, at some point, and it has merit. And what it is, and some of you may be familiar with it, is that some towns are starting to review data centers and trying to create bylaws that control their use because it's every use that is relatively new. Um and so uh Pam thinks it would be wise to at some point draft a bylaw. Um so I'm gonna you know let Pam give a summary of you know what this is all about, and then I'll come back and uh discuss you know what I've done for research and then all the selected board. So you got the floor, Pam, go ahead.

SPEAKER_06 1:22:16

Um so basically I'm gonna start with what is a data center, and it's uh I'm just gonna read what I have down here. Um a data center is a highly specialized facility that houses computer servers and related equipment used to store, process, and transmit digital information. Unlike traditional office or industrial buildings, data centers are infrastructure-intensive uses. They are characterized by high electronical demand, mechanical cooling systems, backup generators, and relatively few on-site employees. So in my mind, I envision a big warehouse with a bunch of computers just humming all the time. There's not really any work being done there, there's no employees, um, so it's kind of like a big industrial computer site. Um briefly, and I'm sure that we can get more into depth in this if it needs be, but some of the affected um the effects of data centers on communities, uh, the main targets are water and electricity. Um the water depletion, what I read that it wasn't a fact-checked, it says facilities can consume up to five million, five million gallons of water daily. Um I don't know how accurate that is, but everything that I did look at, it had a pretty big number that was a little bit scary. Um the electricity demands can increase utility bills, and they can trigger local power shortages. Um that was a little bit more interesting than just generic electricity problems was that when you have a municipality that has municipal electric like TMLP, the rates are really low. So that makes somebody that uses TMLP a town really more attractive to these data centers. So it kind of is like an extra bullseye on us. Um and you know, for pollution, it does create you know backup diesel generators and the cooling systems, and it it can affect noise and um like a constant humming of the air conditioner. So those are the three main uh areas of concern and effects on communities. Again, just a quick overview, nothing in depth. Um so what I'm looking to do is to have a discussion or have a bylaw actually created that would either the purpose of the bylaw were to define what a data center is. Um it would either ban them completely or it could regulate any type of existing um data center that does command. Um because we don't have any bylaw in place that specifically defines data centers, um any such facility that comes in here could try to pull one over and say that you know, hey, this is an office or a similar commercial use, depending on the configuration. Um they do differ from traditional office uses, that they are, like I said, high electricity demand systems. Um I saw that ManceFail to passed a bylaw at their Springtown meeting and they banned a certain level of data centers and kept restrictions on lower end ones. Yeah. Um you can also go to ban them completely. I should know this, but I don't, but I think Middleware was going for a complete ban. And I did see yesterday that Bridgewater had a meeting about it and didn't watch the meeting yet, but I'm I'm going to. Um so you can do one or two things, uh three things. You can either ban them all together, or you can you know prevent just the big ones, or you can just make sure that any of the small ones like conform with what we want them to conform with. Um the benefit of doing this is that it protects municipal infrastructure, natural resources, neighborhood quality of life, and it maintains local control and transparency. Um I am of the opinion that this is something that we need to be proactive on and not reactive, so I think that it does have a little bit of urgency to it. Um I know that we don't have any proposals for data centers, but I would hate to see a situation where we know they're coming or we know the potential is there for them to come. And I I don't want to look back and be like, oh, I wish we got that in earlier, because now our hands are tied, because we can't do anything because we don't have any ability to do it. So if the board is willing to propose some type of a bylaw that would either ban them completely or maybe restrict the use of it, then I think that it's something that we should probably prioritize and and try to get on for the fall town meeting. I weigh my my decision thought process like what is the worst case scenario and can I live with that? And the worst case scenario for me in this situation is that we say, Oh, we can do it in the springtime, it's fine. And then in January we get an application and there's nothing that we can do about it. So we just it it could be a fairly a time crunch, but I think it's I think the effort is worth it.

SPEAKER_08 1:27:05

Well, I mean I think it it definitely has merit and something to pursue.

SPEAKER_09 1:27:11

Um just a few things on my end. Typically zoning, it's always been the policy to do them at the annual town meeting. I mean, I don't think the fall um probably don't have the time. I mean, none of us are expert zoning bylaw writers. Um what I'd recommend is similar to how Matt Andrade did the MBTA zoning. Uh he went, you know, he basically took the ball and ran with it himself and not kind of as a board. Went to the town administrator, CERPIT probably has money, they allot money to us to help write things like that. So we may have the town may have funds coming to them. Um But I think maybe if you know you want to take the ball and run with it with you know the selectman's blessing and town administrator and see what Serpent can do to help out target the Springtown meeting. Um I think that might be, you know, the wiser thing to do so we get an article that's complete and correct instead of rushing it. I know you might think there's urgency, but I looked at the Mansfield, and the reason Mansfield got to have an effective bylaws, Mansfield has their own power company, so they can restrict what the wattage they use or whatever they give for power. We don't have that luxury because we have TMLP, but we actually have, I think, one side of 138 is either Eversource or something else, as you had not 138. On the left side, I think, is one company, and on the right was the other, I believe. We don't have that luxury Middleborough does, because they have Middleborough Gas and Electric. Um the all-out ban, I don't know if that's legit, because I remember when strip joints came in, you couldn't ban them. But what we did then was we were in a similar situation. We ended up zoning like Pine Street on the Bridgewater Rainham line. We made it where there was no water, no sewer. We zoned it so you know we made it as difficult as possible by where we located it, and that might be something to look into here too. Um where you pick is what happened with the strip joints is every use they the case the the court cases came out that every use has to be allowed somewhere. You can't just say no, you can't do that.

SPEAKER_06 1:29:52

What I was wondering maybe you are allowed to be allowed. I don't think you can.

SPEAKER_09 1:29:55

I mean with the strip joints, they said they said no.

SPEAKER_08 1:29:58

Right.

SPEAKER_09 1:29:58

And so you had to come be creative on where you let it happen. It was similar to what Matt did on the MBTA. The way he fought it was be creative and zone it where somewhere that wasn't really practical to do. You know, you had to buy two Walmarts and all this other stuff and threw in the um 10% affordable cars and everything else. So I think with the help of Serpent, you know, the Selectman, the TA, you could come up with something that would infect them. But we don't control. I talked to John Chase in the water department about it, and he said we don't have the water, we don't have to use it. So big uses like that, it probably wouldn't be that practical. Yeah, but I think you say an error on the side of caution to get something in, uh, and I think it's worth pursuing myself, and I'm just adding my two cents from my past experience and thinking that might be the direction to go.

SPEAKER_06 1:31:08

So are you suggesting that it's not something that's sponsored by the planning board?

SPEAKER_09 1:31:12

Um we could sponsor the article.

SPEAKER_06 1:31:14

Right. I mean, I couldn't.

SPEAKER_09 1:31:15

Because I think we we sponsored the MBTA zoning, but like it should be, you know, it's gonna be sponsored by us, the selectmen. It's the easier way than doing a petition. Um and it would pass Mustamore a town meeting. So it could be us sponsoring, it could be a selectman. I'm just saying go go that avenue.

SPEAKER_06 1:31:38

Somebody has to be in somebody has to spearheaded.

SPEAKER_09 1:31:41

Yeah.

SPEAKER_06 1:31:41

And I'm happy to do that.

SPEAKER_09 1:31:42

And I was gonna say you're elected, but uh it's like serpent, you're like you're the serpent reps down. But um I'm just saying, you know, the avenue that Matt used was very successful, and he had professionals come in and help out, and we may have that, so I that's the route to the case. Do we have any issue?

SPEAKER_06 1:32:02

Like I think serpent is a great tool, but to um I agree. I don't I don't think um but what about with the town council is that why we have town council?

SPEAKER_09 1:32:13

We I don't know. Um if I could Matt Matt could probably explain more on how we went about MVPA zoning that we could use to help you out.

SPEAKER_12 1:32:24

Yeah, we uh survey fine and can call it at the time. How long did that take? It was uh it was a while because we had to submit it to the state. Yeah, and then the state had to say okay, so it was quite a bit of time.

SPEAKER_09 1:32:47

Well, after we proposed it after you did it, put it in. It didn't take long to put it together.

SPEAKER_12 1:32:53

No.

SPEAKER_09 1:32:54

And it was a it it was a very well put together article, and that's what you want to go put a town to.

SPEAKER_04 1:33:01

But this isn't a new way. Oh, yeah. So it gets a box all the first time.

SPEAKER_06 1:33:09

But it but serpent is great, but again, isn't that going to be on town council?

SPEAKER_09 1:33:15

Um I would go the route map it with Sherpa, but town council, yeah.

SPEAKER_12 1:33:20

You could talk to town council too. I mean, technique might be able to give you some insight.

SPEAKER_06 1:33:27

I would say it's similar to like without permission from you guys because it costs money. Yeah.

SPEAKER_12 1:33:33

So I mean it's similar to like marijuana when they had like all the marijuana dispensaries, they put like portioned off sections of town where they could allow it. They can like our vote for on the printed time and stuff like that.

SPEAKER_04 1:33:46

That's what they did with the street coming, but I think a big code would pass.

SPEAKER_06 1:33:53

I think we it might pass the top meeting with the attorney general. I get that, yeah.

SPEAKER_05 1:34:02

Yeah, they they limited the space that they could walk. But I think I think we do have something more. But I think we do have um zoning by what the fall company would have already on there before.

SPEAKER_09 1:34:16

Yeah, those were citizens' petitions, I think, on it. But you you can if it happens. I mean, if you think you can get something together, you can give it a shot.

SPEAKER_05 1:34:26

But I mean I'm gonna try the fall, and worst case scenario case is not.

SPEAKER_09 1:34:32

If you want to try to put something together, I just think it would be better to have a blessing for the selectment. Serpent is helpful. And and I think that would be nice to bring that on. Um and I think I mean it was proven success the way Matt did it with uh the town administrator and serpent. So, you know, I think either way it's something we can put together.

SPEAKER_05 1:35:07

I mean that uh I'm happy to do it. That's why I brought it up, right?

SPEAKER_09 1:35:10

Yeah, I think it might be something we could bring in front of the selectmen to discuss too, just to select a board.

SPEAKER_06 1:35:21

I can call Ryan Barnes or email, but the point for tonight was to just throw it up there, get a feel for what the board wanted to do, um, and then you know, because we act as a board, so we don't follow that route and then take it out in.

SPEAKER_09 1:35:40

I think it has a blessing.

SPEAKER_07 1:35:43

Um I don't know if we could put it on the agenda for the meeting next week.

SPEAKER_09 1:35:50

I was thinking that same thing, yeah.

SPEAKER_07 1:35:52

Yeah, I'm happy to do it.

SPEAKER_09 1:35:54

We're gonna be there. Right, exactly. Half of us are here anyway, so I don't have enough people to poke a game.

unknown 1:36:03

Yeah, it's no business. Yeah, that's all. Okay, okay, that's good.

SPEAKER_05 1:36:09

So that's I'll let Greg now think you'll see what we're on the agenda.

SPEAKER_09 1:36:13

Okay. Okay, if that's it then, that would be uh we'd like to formally request that you put on the select board agenda on the same time as the uh yes, eleven. I don't think we have any accounts. That's it. So you're gonna call Tim and you guys are gonna have to the next day or so. Yeah, and I say quite phone tomorrow. Okay. I don't think this was a good meeting that it done. Um if there's nothing else, um I entertain a motion to adjourn.

Motion To Adjourn

SPEAKER_09 1:37:19

So all in favor? Okay, thanks for coming.