Ep 47- FORECAST: HOT TAKES from the Horse Girl Group Chat

The Horse Girl Group Chat is back...and this one might spark a few debates. 👀

This week on Kanter Kulture, Ali is joined by Patty Bogosh and Kelley Martin for one of the most honest conversations we've had yet. We kick things off with a fun round of Would You Rather: Horse Girl Edition, but it doesn't take long before we dive into one of the biggest topics in the horse industry:

Why are some horse shows thriving while others are struggling?

We talk about:
• Why super circuits continue to grow
• The real cost of showing horses (and where the money actually goes)
• Flat fees vs. traditional entry fees
• Prize money, exhibitor incentives, and what actually makes people want to attend a horse show
• Why some local weekend shows can't fill stalls
• The intimidation factor of AQHA competition
• Whether social media is helping—or hurting—new exhibitors
• Creative ideas that could help welcome more people into our industry

Along the way, Patty and Kelley share how they each found their way into the Quarter Horse world, proving that none of us simply woke up one day as Level 3 Amateur exhibitors. Every journey has included stepping stones, setbacks, heartbreak, and plenty of lessons.

This isn't about complaining.

It's about having real conversations, sharing different perspectives, and asking how we can make our industry stronger for everyone who loves showing horses.

We don't claim to have all the answers—but we hope this episode gets you thinking.

🎧 After you listen, we'd love to hear your take. What would you change about today's horse show experience?

If you're enjoying these conversations, be sure to subscribe to Kanter Kulture, leave a review, and share the episode with a fellow horse girl.
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Transcript

SPEAKER_01 0:00

Okay, so you know what? Let's just we'll just like get started because yes, I wanna talk about so many different things. And I was thinking like we're gonna play a little game before we get started. So I have to welcome. Yeah, we're gonna play a little game. And obviously we're all so competitive right now. And it's not gonna be like a win or lose thing, but um welcome to Cantor Culture. Patty, this is your second time and Kelly's first time. Yay! Yeah. So this is my horse, yeah. This is my horse girl group chat that, you know, is always blown up my phone. And it's so good. Like little things we do that we text each other. They're just it's always funny and always like, can you believe this just happened to me? And, you know, so you you guys are amazing. Um and with everything that's been going on on social media lately, we just have so we have so much to talk about. And it's not like girl drama stuff. It's like legit, how do we keep going with this horse show life? So, okay, before we get started, you guys, we're gonna play Would You Rather Horse Girl Edition. Okay. Here we go. And this is this is gonna this is gonna be like right on brand for what we're gonna talk about. So, okay. Would you rather go to one 10-day super circuit or five weekend shows? Kelly, you go first. 10 days super circuit. Okay, Patty?

SPEAKER_02 1:27

10 days super circuit. That's my girl. What about you?

SPEAKER_01 1:31

Same. Oh gosh. And I yeah, same. 10 days super circuit. Five five weekends. That's a lot. That is a lot. But I mean, like, yeah. We're gonna get into it, right? So that this was a good one. This is a good one. Okay. So, okay, would you rather have unlimited entry fees covered or unlimited fuel paid for? Let's do Patty B first.

SPEAKER_02 1:54

Oh, okay. Are we talking I would say entries?

SPEAKER_01 1:57

Because I guess like hauling fees. You know, like I drive my own horse, but like, so I'll call that fuel, but like let's call it hauling fees for you guys if you send your horse with someone. So, like, let's say, like, would you rather have your entry fees covered or your hauling fees covered?

SPEAKER_02 2:11

I change, I change my answer. That would be hauling fees. Yeah. Because I think a lot of, you know, I I I want to go to some some of these horse shows that are really far away, but I'm like, gosh, that would make the horse show more than the Congress or the World Show for me just in hauling. So yeah, I would say, I would say hauling, hauling costs. Agree. Agree.

SPEAKER_00 2:33

Especially when you have multiple horses.

SPEAKER_01 2:36

Yeah. Yeah. That's a whole nother again. We're gonna get into that. We're gonna get into that. So, okay, would you rather never be able to buy another show outfit or never be able to buy another saddle?

SPEAKER_02 2:49

I would say never to be able to buy another saddle. I I'm I'm obsessed with show clothes. So that would not be another for me.

SPEAKER_00 3:00

Agree. And I even look back, like I still not that I've done a showmanship a lot, but I still have the same showmanship halter since I was a youth kid. So I mean, good tack is good tack. Yeah. You keep it clean.

SPEAKER_02 3:12

Yeah, I think you can always dye it, you know, if it gets dark.

SPEAKER_01 3:16

Yeah. That sort of thing. Yeah. That's true. They don't go out of style as quickly. Okay. Ooh, this is a good one. Okay. Would you rather show one incredible horse forever or have the opportunity to show multiple different average horses? Kelly, you go first.

SPEAKER_02 3:35

I okay, Kelly, you go. Gosh. I think multiple average horses.

SPEAKER_00 3:42

I think. Yeah. Yeah. Okay.

SPEAKER_02 3:44

This is why this is the group change. Yeah, it's good. It's good. I think we're very like-minded. Like, and I I feel I feel like average horses, good riders can do wonderful things with average horses. And I think that it's it's not the good horses that make you a good rider. It's the challenging horses. It's the average horses that make you a good rider. And I think that the more that you go focus on improving your your horsemanship skills, and and I don't mean just for the horsemanship class, I mean horsemen and horses skills. The more horses you ride, the better you get. Yes. And so I I would take multiple average horses. Yeah.

SPEAKER_01 4:22

Yeah. I agree with that too. At first, I was going to say one incredible horse.

unknown 4:27

Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 4:27

Go ahead. Even at the end of the day, an average horse at our level is such talented individual. I mean, so. Yeah.

SPEAKER_01 4:38

I think so too. I was going to say one horse forever, but that's just because like it takes so long to learn one. That once I learn it, I just want to show it forever. Because I don't want to start over. But no, I think that's I agree. I think like the average, especially, yeah, like if it's a good show horse and yeah, for sure. Okay. So would you rather win the Congress once or place at the world show multiple times?

SPEAKER_02 5:05

I think win the Congress once because there is just something special about being the last one standing on that wall. What do you think, Kal?

SPEAKER_00 5:15

Well, considering I so I've been reserve at the Congress four times, which I don't take anything away from that. That was, I mean, each one of those was, you know, and indifferent completely from equitation to pleasure to under saddle. So it was all very amazing. But I mean, I would probably say the Congress too. And then also just the sheer amount of numbers that are there compared to the world show. Even though I think the world show you have even more so like the elite crew that's there with their team because or partnership with their force, I would probably have to agree. Same thing with Patty. I don't know why we are so like-minded with all of this, but I know.

SPEAKER_01 5:58

Well, you know what? I feel the same way. So I won the Congress in the Navice Amateur Showmanship, which is like one of the biggest classes, right? At the Congress. And I felt like that's such a cool win because of the amount of people. And like, not to take away from placing at the world show, but I don't know. It's I guess it's because the numbers are smaller. And I would like us to talk about this too about like qualifying and you know, for the Congress, anyone can go. And I feel like that horse show is a little bit more in for people. So you literally can come, it's anybody's game. It really is.

SPEAKER_02 6:31

So I had been reserved the year before. And so, you know, like like it had being the, you know, one of the last two, Kelly, you know what it's like, being one of the last two standing there, and like it's so close, it's so in reach, you can feel it, and you're just sitting there and you're like hoping they don't call your number when they get to reserve. You're just hoping they don't call your number. And, you know, in in 2022, they called my number and I was like, well, it's still a great, it's still a great accomplishment, right? And then in 2023, when it was two of us again, and I thought there was there was no way I was gonna get called out first, you know, and and so I was just expecting my number to get called out reserve. And when it didn't, like just the the sheer emotion that comes over you in that moment is uh it there there's nothing that can replace it. And so for me, it's it's that win. As much as I love the world show, you know, I I've had wonderful world world shows in the past. It's you know, I've I've got a lot of great prizes from there, but there's just nothing like being the last one standing.

SPEAKER_01 7:39

I know. I think so too. So with that being said, you know, obviously a lot of us we are like-minded in this group chat, so to speak. But, you know, there's a lot of different types of exhibitors out there right now, and I feel like a lot of people feel like they're not being heard or they're feeling like they don't have opportunities, or that they're intimidated. And okay, this is probably like a controversial thing to say, but you know, we do this because it's a competition. We show horses to compete. And I don't know if maybe we are in this like weird time of like where everybody gets a prize or, you know, there's a class for everybody. And I'm not trying, I don't want to take that away from people, right? Like, I don't. But it's still a competition. And I don't know how if we ever will make everybody happy, but I just feel like let's talk through some different experiences that we've had at horse shows just this year. Patty, I want you to kind of explain like your background, like a short, like quick of like how you got to be, why you are a level three amateur competitor. And then Kelly, I want you to do the same. So go ahead, Patty, you start.

SPEAKER_02 8:58

Yeah, I uh gosh, I mean, I have been showing horses. It's crazy to say since the 90s, early 90s. I started out in 4 H. I was nine years old with my wimpy bred mare, whose back was as long as the truck. And it was, you know, is I I just I instantly was in love with it. And I knew I wanted to do this at a really high level. And so, you know, working up through 4-H and open shows, my parents bought me a two-year-old when I was 12 years old, and you know, started showing quarter horse then. And I just was so enamored with it. I I was I I'm a competitor at heart, and so you know, growing up doing this, I just always wanted to be at that top level. You know, I I went to college to get a good job to be able to afford this, had to take a few years off. Super long story short, I had a mare that I read, I had a three-year-old that I thought was gonna be cute. Turns out it wasn't as cute as I thought it was, but you know, I went to a horse trainer and they got it sold for me, and then I was able to buy my first, like really nice quarter horse. And I mean, this was not until 2012. I bought my first really nice show horse in 2012. And that horse is is where I like really started to learn the ropes of the quarter horse industry and really started to progress. And so, you know, started off level one everything, worked out through this is when they were just starting to do level two, level three stuff, but had won a lot with him, sold him. I got perfect Patrick, who I no longer have, but had him for a long time. And it's like that horse was able to help me build a foundation to continue to build upon. I then got Patrick, you know, we did wonderful things together. He's now moved on to Emmy Graves, who's doing some great things with him. But, you know, now I have luxe, and it's like I didn't just wake up one day like this, you know, being having the goals and aspirations that I do. Uh I always wanted to do this at a really high level, but it it there were a lot of stepping stones along the way. A lot of stepping stones. And if you even think about it, like 2012 was 14 years ago. You know, that's when I really started doing this.

SPEAKER_01 11:14

And that's crazy because that really wasn't that long ago. Like if you, you know, when like you think back, like it really wasn't that long ago. So was that earn an invitation? Was that the yeah, Ernie? Was your wow, I didn't realize that. Yeah, well, that's really cool. Okay, cool. All right. So, and you know, I will say, like, Patty, I feel like you live in a part of the country. So you're outside of Chicago, Illinois. And I feel like you live in a part of the country that you have access to a lot of good horse shows, and it's not like more than a day to get there. Yeah.

SPEAKER_02 11:45

We have a lot of opportunity, which is great. You know, it's it's it's fun to put a show schedule together and and to see where we want to go and focus on everybody's goals and make sure that not only are we able to get in an arena that's gonna help everybody progress and achieve their goals, but then we get to have fun and that we get to, you know, do it, do it on a basis that, you know, is is good for everybody. So we are very lucky in that capacity. I know fun, fun.

SPEAKER_01 12:12

Who is that?

SPEAKER_00 12:13

Cool. Okay, Kelly, give us your give us your spiel. Gosh. So I I really liked how Patty talked about stepping stones because mine has been a long like process of stepping stones. And I'm sure Patty as well had heartbreak along along those stepping stones as well. Mine, I actually got into it because of my older sister. And a lot of people don't even know I have an older sister, but she started riding horses through speech therapy. It was just part of her therapist had horses, and that was her reward if she had a good session was she got to ride a horse. And then me being the younger sister, I wanted to do everything that my older sister did. And Kim never got into really showing or anything, but then I did. And I uh I actually danced for nine years and was kind of forced to make a decision. Yeah, horses or dancing, and I chose the horses. And I start the same thing, 4-H open shows, and I didn't really start showing on the HHA circuit national level until I was like 14 or 15. So I only got, I think, two years as a youth for like youth world, and I got lucky. I mean, I I had a good horse, and then I will never forget we traded that horse and we had a stock horse trailer for tall dark and chocolate, which a lot of people will remember him and like the Kobac Own him and Dawn, and he just a phenomenal horse. And he was kind of one of our big stepping stones. And then he actually, when we sold him, we purchased, I would say, the matriarch to now our breeding program. Uh my parents bought a farm and or it was actually just land at the time. But since then, we've got, I don't even know, like four so brood mares that have now produced the horses that I now show. So it's amazing how it's all kind of trickled into different avenues of what I now do. So it's been a lot of fun.

SPEAKER_01 14:17

And now I have a question about that. When was the last time you guys like bought a show horse? Gosh, I'm so like saying you're trying to think.

SPEAKER_00 14:26

Yeah. It might have been. So we did we bought her as a brood mare, but then I actually so Lucy when we when we sold Tall Dark and Chocolate, we bought Good Time and Lucinda. And I had a horse with the starns, and we had sold them. The I'll wannabe first. And on the side, we had bought we we also had Lucy. And then I think at one point we were retiring Lucy because she she had some soundness issues, but she still was broodmare sound. So at that time, the Schroeder's bred her to blazing hot. This is yeah, call coming back to me. It's been a while. And we ended up buying her first baby that also had some soundness issues, but ultimately we ended up getting her and we started doing some work with her. And within a year and a half, I was reserved at the Congress in the amateur equitation. So it was amazing. And so since then, she's had three babies, and the youngest is the two-year-old I am the party baby that we have. Cool. So yeah, and then her, Lucy's maternal sister, is the mom to my two current show mayors, the hot mess and address and bless this hot mess. So they're all kind of inner, you know, mingled. But yeah, yeah. Yeah.

SPEAKER_01 15:49

I think that's so cool. I think that's really neat that you bred the horses that you show and like the the successes you have have to feel so much deeper that way. Cause like you're their mommy too, you know? Like that's pretty cool.

SPEAKER_00 16:02

It's pretty neat. And one of the things we'll joke about, because I mean, I know I I bred her, but like I think hot mess and address, Emma is what we call her. She was actually named after my grandmother because she passed away the year before Emma was born. I just think she's so beautiful. And but she went through a really ugly, ugly stage as a yearling. Like just this just ugly color, super like just ugly. She was the ugly duckling, and now she's just turned into such a beautiful, a beautiful hot mess. So we love her and she's I love it. Yeah.

SPEAKER_02 16:33

So but yeah, less of the two-year-old was the ugliest thing you've ever seen.

SPEAKER_00 16:38

It's crazy, and you just don't realize it. Now she's eight years old. And yeah, but we also, I mean, we had we've had a lot of heartbreak, and a lot of people know about us, you know, when we lost her mom and it was a freak accident, but yeah, it you know, and her sister is the orphan from it, but yeah, it's it's not easy, and breeding is not for the faint of heart. So no.

SPEAKER_01 17:02

You know, like I I have two mayors right now, and I'm like, oh, I could get into that. And then I'm like, I don't know if I can handle it. Like, I don't know. But yeah. So okay, Kelly, your perspective's a little different because you're a vendor, you work at the horse show a lot of the horse shows. You have head-to-tail boutiques, so you're on the road a lot, and you go to a lot of the bigger circuits. So, and then Patty and I, you know, a little bit different of a perspective because we can go to some smaller shows. I know, Kelly, you could too, but just finding the time to go to smaller shows is probably harder for you because you take your business to a lot of the larger circuits. So it makes sense for you to show plus work. So, you know, there's now that they don't have a podcast anymore, but the Admore Leg group, there was a uh post on there recently, and I guess it was originally from two years ago, and they just were saying how how are people still going to these larger super circuits, so to speak. And then, you know, they complain about the expense of them, they complain about the time that's associated with going to something like that. But then on the flip side, there will be smaller local weekend horse shows, we'll call them, and they can't even sell enough stalls to run the horse show. So, like one of the, I just want to read one of the comments, and I won't say the person's name or anything because I don't want to call them out. Oh, well, and they posted anonymously anyways, which, oh, you guys, I hate that. I hate it, I hate it, I hate it. But okay. So somebody was saying that like that they feel like they're in the minority, but with their work schedule, longer shows actually work better for them because they're like, you know, I can plan this, I can go, they get more ride time in when they go to the longer horse shows. Uh, you know, it costs less for them to just the hauling to go one time instead of going to multiple weekend horse shows. So that's one perspective. Okay. And then somebody else also was like, why are these big horse shows one to two weeks long? Why are they as long as like a world show? Doesn't that kind of take away from the world show? So there's like a couple of different things that I want us to talk about. I obviously just did a podcast about my experience at the Little Buckeye, and I don't want to rehash all of that. But I have to say, for me, financially, it made a ton of sense. I'm a DIY. I know somebody was like, there's no way you only spent $356. No, you're right. I didn't. There were more costs associated, but I did go by myself. So I did not have the referring to your show tab. Yes, just my show tab was $356. But I will say I did do the whole horse show for about a thousand, which I think is incredible. I was like, I feel like I saved money going to that horse show. So, and I will say when I go to like our Pennsylvania shows, it's usually like a four-day Thursday, Friday, Saturday, Sunday. You show, you know, once Thursday, Friday, they do like a whole show, Thursday, Friday, and then Saturday, Sunday. My bill is typically more like eight something. Okay. So like that's expensive for again to go by one horse or two. One. One horse. Yep. It's usually like seven, well, between I would say like six to eight hundred dollars, probably is my bill in the office. And that doesn't include hotel or camping or fuel or trainer or any of that stuff. Buy your stall. But yeah. And you know what? I and I'm sure other people feel this way too. But you know, like a lot of us pay for our stall like way ahead of time. So then I get to the show and I'm like, I didn't have to pay for that.

SPEAKER_02 20:37

Girl math, my tab was only $800. Guess what?

SPEAKER_01 20:40

It wasn't. It wasn't. But it feels like it. Yeah, exactly. So, all right, Kelly, you actually were just out in Las Vegas at the Marshall and Sterling. Can you tell us a little bit of that about that show? And then Patty, I want to talk to you. You went to the corporate challenge, right? I did. Okay, so I want to talk about those two horse shows. So, Kelly, go ahead and talk to us about Vegas.

SPEAKER_00 21:04

So I think a lot of people know I ride with Clint Ainsworth, and I've been with him, I guess, two and a half years, maybe. I think. So when he first mentioned Las Vegas, I was like, oh my gosh, like thinking, oh gosh, this is gonna be a lot. However, we had a freaking blast. And even though it was from Georgia to Vegas and we had a horse show in our backyard, literally 15 minutes from us, it was so much fun. So our obviously our big portion of money spent would would be the hauling. I will say, just side note, Clint did it right. The horses did it in about three or four days. They laid over in multiple places, actually at a vet clinic and pilot point at Equine Sports Medicine. So all the horses were looked over. They were given fluids if needed, et cetera, et cetera. So, because we had a few comments about that too. And they were also hauled at night. Then when we got there, so the stall. were $310. They included mats and they included four bags of shavings. So I mean I was like, okay, and it was air conditioned, right? It was air conditioned, yep. And then what was so amazing was you won money. So for circuits, first through third was money. First was 500, second was 300, and third was 200. So I came back with $1,400. And the other thing they did was if you were first through six every day, you could go and you put in like a little ticket, like you filled it out, you had to go do it. But you would fill out a ticket and then at the end of the show they did an additional drawing. But every one of Clint's clients won something additional. So I also won supplement core balance. So it was $150 retail. But I think people won stuff from Wendy at Show Me Again. There were some pads won, I believe, just different things. And honestly, you know, you didn't really have to leave South Point the casino. We did and we went to dinner a few times, but the hotel rooms aren't that expensive. I mean they're anywhere from 80 to 120 a night. I stayed with Natasha Kelly. So we just split that so it wasn't completely, you know, outrageous and we showed three times within a week. So we got a lot of practice in and it was a blast. It was a blast. So very much I love that.

SPEAKER_01 23:30

And yeah and like so that's the thing you know like you got to okay so the hauling was a lot it was a lot probably for your horse but you know you got a lot out of that. Like you got to come home feeling accomplished and it almost felt like a vacation a little bit, which I think is really really cool.

SPEAKER_00 23:49

So I so I love that big one of the things that Clint also you know when we were all discussing it and stuff like Natasha it was her 20th wedding anniversary. So her husband came out early and they did stuff for that oh I thought you were going to say he didn't come. She was like he did. So they added they kind of made it a vacation and there were some other ones that you know partners and stuff like that came out and you know turned it into a vacation. So and it you know it was also kind of nice because we competed with people that we don't see or we've never competed again. So it was just different. It was just different. And we were in air conditioned so like the horses never were struggling or anything like that.

SPEAKER_01 24:30

So okay that's a for nothing if you would have stayed in Georgia you would have been struggling with the heat. There's that and second of all I think that's kind of neat what you said is that you got to compete against some different people. I find that that I mean I have heard judges say too that it's cool to like step outside of your area and go compete against others because it does help you like put in perspective like where you're at or things you need to improve on so on and so forth. So I know that that is extreme to go from Georgia where there was a show in your backyard to Vegas to compete against somebody else but I I think that's a really good idea like in general.

SPEAKER_00 25:09

Yeah and I I don't know if he'll do it every year or you know whatnot. And there was seven horses that went and I think basically four or five customers. So it wasn't like the whole group and he still had a group that went to Conyers. But yeah it was it was a blast. I'm glad I did it.

SPEAKER_02 25:25

So awesome I love that yeah Andy won money great and I won money all right Kelly got to be an air conditioning and I melted for two weeks straight. Oh my gosh. I swear it was the two hottest weeks of the year when we were on the road we went to two horse shows back to back and it was ungodly hot. Yeah godly hot yeah yeah we had to be really careful with the horses we had to make sure that we were making sure first of all that they were sweating you know second that you know they were getting enough water. I gave mine a ton of electrolytes made sure that they were eating and drinking well but it was just I mean it's it is almost hard when it's that hot because if you have something that you're trying to work on you only have a limited time amount of time because you can't overheat the horse. You have to be very careful about that. Yeah.

SPEAKER_01 26:17

Yeah. Okay so tell us about the corporate challenge. I don't know anything about that horse show either.

SPEAKER_02 26:24

It is one of my favorite horse shows. Where did you run I did I actually I I won a decent amount of money in the two weeks I was on the road. I was very proud of my my my pleasure horse that I have he did a really good job. But uh so the corporate challenge is put on by the Minnesota Amateur Quarter Horse Association in conjunction with the Missouri Quarter Horse Association. It historically is in St. Paul, Minnesota at the state fairgrounds there. But the Coliseum was under construction I believe it started last year. I believe that last year was the first year it was in St. Louis. I am not sure where it's going to be next year. I don't know if it's been decided or if they're still working through that but last year and this year it was at St. Louis. It's a great location as far as easy to get to I'm sure the Minnesota people wouldn't say that but I do think that it is pretty centrally located for a lot of other people I mean we had people from Texas we had people from Florida a lot of people came to that horse show. Yeah it was great. You know the the facility is okay I think that it's gone downhill over the last couple of years since I believe it was the the the county park district that bought it but it still the layout is good. The footing in the main arena could be a little better. It was a little deep this year the trail pen was excellent. They put new footing in there the trail pen was really good. And then the schedule was run very well. They you know yes there was one late night I think that we did the railhorse stuff but other than that it was not yeah it it it it was very it was well attended it was well run the show management there does a great job. Christian and his team are wonderful. The two associations that run it are wonderful. They're friendly they've got great gate announcers they make sure people are there and at the cone or getting into their real class whatever it might be. And so I think from from a lot of you know my check boxes it uh it it hits all of them. There were some great prizes. I'm using my Stanley cup right now that got to look at that you you talk about like the you know filling out your little your little tickets or whatever so you added up your your points based on what placing you got and then you got to go get prizes and they had great circuits and stuff like that. So it was and then they had games they had games between some of the classes it was so fun. It was so fun. So it lots of exhibitor parties I mean they just they do a very good job. They do a very very good job from a a horse show perspective but then a camaraderie and a community perspective.

SPEAKER_01 29:05

Okay so I'm hearing a theme okay so we'd like to get stuff number one okay we like to win money number two we like good facilities number three and now I also bet that all three of us would agree we wouldn't mind paying a little more for those things right and I'm not even would agree with that yes right and not even if it had to be at a superstar like I would pay a little more for those things at a well let's call it a five day horse show you know Wednesday to Sunday or whatever. Like how long was the corporate challenge?

SPEAKER_02 29:42

Believe asserted on Wednesday. Okay. Yeah it had to assert on Wednesday because we got there Mondays.

SPEAKER_01 29:47

Yeah. Okay. And now Patty you're not currently showing like the all-around events just because you have a younger horse but Kelly so you show the all-around events showmanship. I know she is oh she's coming for us I know I mean I know but she's a watch out but she's not right now not yet not yet but Kelly like do you like the flat fees when it comes to like the all-around stuff so that gets a little bit tricky because for me okay just because like with my mayor sometimes we just do the Eck and horsemanship sometimes we do the showmanship yeah so then sometimes I'm like right on that border if it makes sense or not true yeah so that makes sense right like like if I was you Allie absolutely I would like a flat fee yeah oh I love the flat fee but now that I have two horses going I had like two flat fees and I was like whoa whoa whoa I was like what didn't it isn't there isn't there a kind of the the point where the flat fee becomes more yeah financially advantageous and that's when they flip you over to that. Yeah yeah I don't know once again like the girl math in my head like when I started taking two horses to the horse shows and the first time I got my bill for two I was like what I was like I wasn't expecting this and I'm like well what why what do you mean you weren't expecting this but in my head I just was I only had one horse for a little bit and I would go to the horse shows I'm like okay I I've been doing two horses for so long I feel like this is like free.

SPEAKER_02 31:18

I I know wild because I mean it is really hard when you start getting more than one horse because it feels like it doesn't just double it's going it's like going from one dog to two. Yeah one plus one does not equal two like one plus one is four or five yeah it feels like so it's wild how the expenses increase when you just add one oh my God you guys and the stuff you got to take oh my God like I I good thing I have a big trailer because I was like this is like I'm taking the whole barn.

SPEAKER_01 31:48

Everybody needs so much food I try and take my own hay so that I don't have to buy it there. And then I was like what am I thinking? This is crazy. But so yet like okay but we'll just for the majority of people take one horse for the most part right so I still don't know how to get these local horse shows to gain more interest. Like I saw somebody just post there was like a horse show in Maryland that they do a really good job with prizes. They had a crab feast which is like so good like a seafood thing or something like that. Yep, right? Like that sounds great. I would want to go for that I know last year they gave away a Harris show saddle huge deal. Yeah like really really nice prizes. But they said it was not well attended. So for but for me, okay it probably was again really hot. The facility is not great. It's not easy to get to so like I think there's some things that play into these numbers that like people aren't totally forthcoming about okay because like like I said at the Little Buckeye it was really easy to get to for anybody it's very convenient driving wise accommodations are wonderful.

SPEAKER_02 32:55

The footing's pretty good I would I would assume that that's the same for the corporate challenge that it was easy to get to there's hotels there's you know so hotels Allie reasonable hotels and that I think that there are some locations where yes they have plenty of hotels but you spend an arm and leg. And Kelly I I share rooms with people a lot but like last year I went I won't say where I went because I don't I don't want to disparage anybody but I went to a horse show that you would think would have ample hotels you know a lot of amenities around I ended up paying for a five day horse show over $2,000 just for the hotel. I believe it it was wild. I believe that I believe that's so I think you know it's it's crazy to it and I know that a lot of horse shows try to get the block rooms but you know not all of them can and not all of them get uh discounts and that sort of thing. So it's I mean some of that does play into it for me. You know cost is not my number one but you have to incorporate not just the cost of the entries in the stall and that sort of thing but you have to look at your hotels your meals your yeah gas expense that sort of thing fuel expense. So yeah.

SPEAKER_01 34:10

Kelly what are like the hotels and stuff in like for the big A is it I've never been to that horse show because it's so hot I refuse to go.

SPEAKER_00 34:17

But like what is what is I would say that I would say that that's I don't know we I think we have a delay. So I'm actually at a horse show in Tennessee. It's my first Tennessee walking horse show so that's a whole nother experience but I don't I don't have to Kelly know that Kelly got a Tennessee walker.

SPEAKER_02 34:32

Yes.

SPEAKER_00 34:34

No if anything Kelly would get a rainer probably but no I'm not doing anything like that. But it's raining outside so I'm in the trailer I don't have great service all the things but that's part of the issue for the Conyers area I would say is and it and it's pretty public knowledge but the area of Conyers isn't necessarily a great area. A lot of times like when the shows were bigger I know a lot of people's trucks were broken into but then also the um the RV spots aren't there's only so many. They'll have to bring in extra power and then the power usually doesn't do great because it's so hot. So you know the AC units can't keep up in the in the for the RVs and then there's just not a lot of uh really Airbnb kind of options in the area. Our house is 25 minutes from there, but it's almost like it's just far enough that it's a it's a pain to go back and forth when you're you know riding late or getting up early. So that's one of the downfalls of that area. But yeah the there's there's a few hotels but they're just not it's just not a great area to to be completely honest.

SPEAKER_01 35:43

So yeah and I you know I kind of feel that way even about like Tulsa. I mean this year like I've had good experiences with Airbnbs there and stuff but I know others haven't or like there has been the truck break and stuff. You know, even last year for Columbus like I'm not going to the Congress this year. And this is like well I'm gonna go but I'm not gonna show so I'm gonna go visit and just be that that girl but I I don't know last year I had a really bad Airbnb like experience. And then I thought like for me like I have an eight year old daughter like I don't need her she thinks she can be feral at the horse shows and like run around and do whatever she wants. Well not there because like she like she could get sex trafficked in like a hot second and like I just don't I don't know like that's something for me as a parent to consider also like what horse shows are safe and yeah like I think about that even in Tulsa I'm like not listen not that like all homeless people are bad. And I'm not trying to say that but like there's a lot of like strange individuals that walk onto that fairgrounds and that just like makes me nervous as a parent that you know my kid will be like oh I was talking to this lady and she was so nice and I'll be like oh yeah oh she was like she was in the garbage. No. So I, you know, these are all like things that we do need to consider when we're choosing our horse shows. And I was talking with somebody recently about, you know, like in the UCF world they do like A, B, C shows, right? So what if we did something similar where like the super circuits were like an A-rated show and we only offered and I know people are going to be like, oh my God, no, but say we just offered like level three amateur classes and then like the, you know, for the open people it would be like the green, the junior, the senior, whatever. And then we had B level shows where it was like level two, level one, and then all the open classes. And then we had C shows that were more like the rookie introductory maybe all breed classes. So they were a little bit more welcoming for somebody who's starting out in AQHA. Again, I hear about the intimidation factor so much. I hate that because I don't ever want someone to feel intimidated to like come to the madness or come to the Sun Circuit or you know or O'Cala. Like I want everybody to feel like they have a place at an AQHA show. I guess that's not the case.

SPEAKER_02 37:58

So I was trying to think of like a to do that to make feet people feel like they were competing on a stage where they could be seen and heard wow I don't know that's just like yeah I hear what you're saying really I totally hear what you're saying and I almost think that and I I don't know what the numbers are like for the USAF stuff I feel like with AQHA I like the concept yeah I don't know that it wouldn't necessarily work specifically like that but but I agree with you on the intimidation factor and how do we how do we get I I've spent over 20 years in sales right you have to keep the top of your pipeline full the top of that funnel has to be full and that's where we are weak right now we don't have the top of the funnel filled and so that's why we get to these horse shows and the weekend horse shows are small they're not well attended people think that they're intimidating they're too expensive they're looking at the value of it right we see value in the horse shows that we go to that's why we go to the horse shows that we go to increasing the value for people right now they're seeing value in other areas whether it be a different breed whether it be open shows whatever it might be. I do think that you know 20 years ago no matter what people's experience was they were still going to be going to the quarter horse shows. And I think that over time that has eroded people have options people have choices and they decided to go in other areas because it suits their value proposition better. When I think about AQHA and how we can try to fill the top of the funnel again and get people not only interested but feeling welcome wanting to compete again it's a competition right wanting to compete and and I feel like when I'm going to compete I learn from people I want to learn from those that are at the top I want to learn from those that are are winning. And so for me it's not about necessarily and of course I want to win right but I know that this is a constant evolution of talent. You have to be constantly learning constantly working so I guess it's a long way of saying what can we do to reach out to people that would be the introductory individuals coming into AQHA is it going to the open shows would would we be welcome at the open shows or going and building relationships going and and helping going and you know seeing who would be interested in coming in at the novice level and then you know maybe are there are there yes there's the novice championships are there any specific novice horse shows that are out there that would help to drive that so that's right back to your Youssef comment around the levels you know are we doing anything to encourage those individuals that would be coming in at the novice level make it more welcoming make it more accommodating show that we really are nice friendly people you know it's it's I under I understand the intimidation factor. I was extremely intimidated when I started not only as a 12 year old but in 2012 you know and and but you just have to go do it.

SPEAKER_00 41:18

Yeah you just have to go do it do you think some of the reason even more of the intimidation nowadays is because of social media aspects like the social media being there too just because I grew up where my parents did not buy me the fanciest saddle they didn't buy me the fanciest horse like I had to step in and we still have my first show horse. So and really he's he's a 14 one and a half pony his name's Flash and he's 37 years old and he's kicking it man. So yes we still have him but man I showed I showed him and showed him in the 4 H and I beat some of those quarter horses and I was super super proud of it. But yeah I was always intimidated because I didn't have a quarter horse even in 4 H in the open shows. But now I look at it and I'm like I wonder if some of these people they see our reels they see our ads they just see the stuff we just post in general and they just look and they're comparing themselves before they even get to the horse show. And just like anything even just your general relationships people only post the good stuff. They don't see us when we're at home flying across the arena with our horses' heads stuck up in the air because we're working on a lead change, you know? So that's like I'm wondering like did social media really come in like play into it too nowadays because I don't know.

SPEAKER_01 42:40

Okay, listen I actually really agree with that. And I feel like I feel like people even probably think that about me and like this cater culture world that I have and I that you know oh but you I probably like back in the day would have been like oh it must be nice to be her but for real like I'm grinding to do this and I'm so lucky that I have an amazing support system. But you're right like same my family I don't have a trust fund damn it and if still waiting for that call that my mom like it's been there all along. I think as a teenager I said multiple times like I wasn't born into the right family you know have it so bad. But you know I I just I think it's cool that or maybe like generationally like all of us are kind of like the same age. So we have this like work ethic in us that like even if we're intimidated, we're still gonna show up like we're still gonna put forth major major effort. And I feel like maybe there's different generational shifts that have uh changed the way people look at horse showing probably and I will even say Patty you mentioned something about would we be welcome at open shows. And I don't know about open shows per se, but I did go to a local horse show in New Jersey and there was a lot of little chit chat in the background that people were mad that I was there and I wanted to be like why? I mess up. And actually, I did mess up at that horse show. I got DQ'd in the horsemanship because I spun too many times. So how about you didn't have the world show like I did? Yeah. Well, and exactly. Well, that's the thing. It's like we all mess up. Right?

SPEAKER_02 44:15

We all You actually have stickers about it.

SPEAKER_01 44:18

Yeah.

SPEAKER_02 44:18

Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Mine's right here. Oh my god. But I did. But you know, I can't remember what year it was. Yeah. But I can't remember what year it was. I did a full additional turn in the horsemanship. Full turn. Well, just felt like two steps.

SPEAKER_01 44:36

And it probably felt good. It was beautiful. I was gonna say it probably felt good. You were like, watch this shit.

SPEAKER_02 44:40

Yeah. Yeah. Let me just do it again. Why did nobody claw? They're like, because you screwed up really bad.

SPEAKER_01 44:44

You got DQ.

SPEAKER_02 44:45

You're like, oh my God, you ding-dong, learn the pattern.

SPEAKER_01 44:48

Wait, you guys, I didn't know until I did that. New Jersey, this is not even a lie. Like, okay, level three amateur horsemanshipper here. I didn't know that if you overspin or underspin or whatever, that that's off pattern and that's a DQ. I thought, I don't know. I was like, oh, it's a minus five. Like, oh, it's a major penalty. No. And then when I come out and look at the score, I'm like, well, I didn't two hand or anything. And they're like, you were off pattern. And I'm like, pattern. I had no idea. I didn't even know. See, you can still learn new things. Every day. Every day. So, but would that be so that's why I think we need to read her rulebook. I do. Oh my gosh. And I'm an amateur ambassador. Oh gosh. I know. I know. I know. I do. I need to read that. But I well, you know, I just go to it when I need to. Then I'm like, okay, that makes sense. See. But I think that's what I'm saying. Like, I do feel like we all should be welcome at any horse show. Like, I would, I welcome the novices to also please come in, come in the level three amateur classes too. Because even if you feel like you're not ready or whatever, you get to practice, right? Like I when I was a novice, I always did the amateur class too because I was like, well, even if I didn't have a lead change or I knew I wasn't as like sharp as everybody else, I'm just gonna try.

SPEAKER_02 46:05

You know, and that's where I don't know the economics behind this. Okay. So I could be putting a suggestion out there that the show management companies will be like, oh my God, don't say that. But if you're a novice or a level one, I feel like you should be able to go in the traditional youth or amateur classes for no charge. Oh it you don't it's not like you have to pay the judges more. The judges are judging anyway. But say you have 15 people in the level one class and you have 10 amateurs. Yeah. If you got every single person to go, suddenly you're at a 25 horse, you're at a five-point amateur class. Girl, that makes qualifying easier. That in increases your numbers, it gets your novice people in there building relationships with your other amateurs. I just think like, and again, I don't know the economics behind it. Maybe it wouldn't work, but I don't know why it wouldn't. But can someone try getting the judges more? I'd love that. We'll throw it out to the management companies. Can it work?

SPEAKER_01 47:05

Yeah, I do. I'm serious. I love that because I wonder if, like, okay, right. It might not make sense for all clubs to try and do that, but like maybe at one of the larger super circuits or a really like a strong weekend horse show association.

SPEAKER_00 47:19

That's where I could start. Allie, you should have like Kathy Avald and Jared or something like on your on your podcast and discuss stuff like that because I'm sure that there's Christian. Yes. Like I'm sure there's a lot of behind the scenes stuff that like we don't understand on why they or they want to do things and they just can't, like financially. Because at the end of the day, you know, they have to make money too. But yeah, that would be really interesting to know that aspect.

SPEAKER_01 47:45

I have asked Jared. Or there Yeah, I've asked Jared if he wants to do it. He's like, sure. And then I'm like, let's find time. And he's like, yeah, in like three years, you know, and it's free, it is spare time.

SPEAKER_02 47:56

So maybe they couldn't do it for free, right? But maybe what they have to do is like if you're a novice competing in the well, or if you're a novice competing in the regular, you know, youth or amateur, maybe there's a a special circuit for, you know, the top of the Well, that's a great idea in the regular. Yes.

SPEAKER_01 48:15

Great idea.

SPEAKER_02 48:16

Something like that.

SPEAKER_00 48:18

Because again, you never know. Yeah. Well, and it's even come approach us vendors. Like we're happy. And like, I mean, I think it was two or three years ago now, Kathy Avault, when she started, I don't know if you guys remember when she would announce when it was someone's first AQHA show. Do you remember that at all? Like she would make the announcement. So she had actually said, Do you remember that? I think that's super sweet. Yeah. And so I talked to her about if she could give me a list of new attendees through, you know, working with AQHA. And then I would give them through head-to-tail boutique, like like a little gift certificate, just to help give them get them started, whether it was a tail, not that some money off or whatever. And it never came to fruition. And it wasn't on me or Kathy's part, it was the association's part, unfortunately. Like we never so I like it. Yeah. So there's definitely any little incentive like that. Exactly.

SPEAKER_01 49:20

Exactly.

SPEAKER_00 49:20

Yeah, this you know, and it might not be, you know, they and the thing is, I've got designers that are great and love to work, and it might not be the the highest end piece that we have, but even if they can just start somewhere and they're like, Oh, I really, really love that, and they think they can't afford it, but you know, here's a $250 gift certificate or whatever. I don't even know what the price could be. Yeah. Just to get them started and build that relationship. And, you know, I started out where my trainer made my clothes, you know, and I we stoned them. So everyone starts somewhere.

SPEAKER_02 49:52

Yep. I started out, my aunt, who's a seamstress, made my clothes, and it was a floral, it was a forest green floral print. It looked like a curtain. Okay, it looked like a curtain. Grandma's curtain. It was a it was a jacket, grandma curtain. It had like five buttons. I used it in the showmanship, I used it in the western reading classes, I had tan chaps and a tan hat. Guys, we've we we all start somewhere. I like it.

SPEAKER_01 50:19

Right. So, like I like it. I actually, do you know what? I remember when I started showing Appaloosas in '97, eight, something like that. I got stuff from the sergeant's catalog, guys. I felt very fancy.

SPEAKER_02 50:34

Yeah. Is that what it was back then? The first hobby horse, I was so proud of it. Right.

SPEAKER_01 50:38

I think it was like Silver Mesa brand, right? And I remember I had this horsemanship shirt that was like pink, purple, and black, and it had like these like puffy sleeves. And like, I'm not gonna actually, I would wear it now. I wish I kind of still had it. Like it's vintage, but it was cool. It's because we're so old. Yeah, I like it. I think it's cute. But yeah, I mean, I mean, maybe, maybe the Kelly, this would put you out of business. But if we all went back to like making our own clothes, and I remember we would get like shirts from a department store, and then we would like to bedazzle it. Yeah, I don't I you know what? I don't have the nail for that.

SPEAKER_00 51:13

I mean, yeah, no. It's like I'll keep you in business.

SPEAKER_02 51:16

I can barely curl my hair and not making my own show clothes.

SPEAKER_01 51:21

I believe that too. I believe it. I wanted to really quick, I just wanted to look at our my notes again. I know what I want to talk about. Okay, this I want to like, okay, we won't talk too much longer, so that's this isn't like a three-hour podcast for people to have to listen to.

SPEAKER_00 51:36

Yeah, because I have walking horses to attend to.

SPEAKER_01 51:39

Yeah, you do.

SPEAKER_00 51:40

You do use they do use tails.

SPEAKER_01 51:44

I can you please find out for me why they wear the airpiece. Like, I want to know why they're allowed to have an airpod in their ear while they're in the suite.

SPEAKER_00 51:54

Because so we have learned they don't start their classes really until about 4 p.m. And then they go to like 10 and midnight. It's it's weird. It's or not, I shouldn't say weird. That's not the right term. It's very different. It's different what we do. Yep, it's very different. And I mean, and they'll they'll flat out tell like when they've come in, they've really they've been so welcoming and so thankful that we're here, but they will flat out say, like, we are 10 years behind as far as fashion and et cetera. Like, I mean, smooth chaps and very bright colors. And uh, you know, they just started getting into Harris is a very big uh tech vendor for them, but they just started utilizing their saddles like maybe five years ago. It's it's a it's a different world. Yeah. Yep. Yeah. But I would be curious, I need to get like a show bill and just kind of see what their prices are, like for their dates or their entry fees. I would just be curious. Are there and we're in Murfreesboro, Tennessee. So I mean, there was just the you know, the Roan Championship was here in May. May, June? End of June. So I'd be just curious to compare numbers, yeah.

SPEAKER_02 53:04

So yeah, because that I I hear from associations as well as management companies, you know, a lot of the expense of everything is the cost of the facility. But right. Where where it confuses me, and again, I am I am naive in this aspect. I'm not at a committee, I should be. I I, you know, have not helped plan a horse show. But these show facilities, and I understand they're in it to make money, but from a negotiation perspective, why are they charging the quarter horse shows so much more than the open shows or the front shows or the you know, whatever horse show it is? Um, it is just mind-blowing to me that the majority of the cost comes from the facility and we struggle with the negotiation aspect of it. And we obviously they have to pass on that cost. And if that's the majority of the cost, figuring out how we can work to drive that down so that we can try to make things more affordable. Because a bag of shavings is gonna be a bag of shavings, right? Right.

SPEAKER_00 54:13

But and I know you guys have heard me discuss it multiple times, and I'm constantly while I'm pulling hair out and things like that. But even vendor fees, I'll go to the same facility and one weekend or one week or two weeks, whatever, it's $350. And then the next week I'm spending $3,000. Like, make that make sense. You know, so it that's frustrating too. Yeah.

SPEAKER_01 54:34

Yeah. You know, and uh we we probably don't even have the time to get into it, but with even the winter Florida. Don't even I know, I know, I know Congress. I know. Well, the I was gonna say the Florida, the Florida shows, like moving from WEC to back to Tampa because of the cost of renting the indoor arenas. And I know as a vendor, it wasn't great for you at WEC either. And I will just quickly say, as like an exhibitor, I am sad because I liked WEC as like a destination place for a horse show. Like to me, that felt like a vacation and it was fun and it was special. And Tampa to me just feels like a state fairground. I know people are gonna be like, how can you say that? But that's just how I feel. So I but I agree, like these facility costs are crazy and how it can change is is wild. With that being said, so we're having to pick and choose where we go. Associations are having to pick and choose where they hold their shows. But one thing that we have lost is qualifying for the world show. And the world show numbers have decreased, declined, however, you want to look at it. And a little bit of me has felt like holding that globe has lost a little of its luster. And I don't know if it's because of qualifying, but we don't think.

SPEAKER_02 55:51

I know, I know, I know, I know, right? But so this is where if people have been bored up until this point because we've agreed on it everything, I think that this is where not that we're gonna get controversial, but I think that we have a little bit different of opinion, difference of opinion for the world show. So I think that we should all explain our focus on the world show, our thoughts on the world show, because I do think that they're a little bit different. And I think that we all have some good insights to share that could give some people ideas to think about.

SPEAKER_01 56:22

Yeah, and you know, the world show is so important to AQHA, like right, and it used to be like that was the top, like that was the ultimate, like you qualified, and then you get there, and it was like this like a prestigious event to be at that you you felt really special to be there. And I went for my first time in 2014 and you had to qualify, like you, I had to like run my rear end off to get qualified because you almost had to get like a superior, I remember, in the showmanship for sure, to get qualified. And that meant going to weekend horse shows, that meant going to bigger circuits. I had a corporate job at that point, so it was hard for me to like take time off and then have enough time off to also go to the world show. So it was a lot of planning. It was, but once I got there, I was like, damn it, I earned this, you know? So like that was pretty cool. So, okay, Patty, what do you think about kind of like the idea of the world show and also what do you think about bringing qualifying back? Yeah, absolutely.

SPEAKER_02 57:16

So I know that we chatted about this in our group chat. So I don't want to give either one of your answers away, but you got me thinking about things, right? Because what what what you shared about the world show and qualification got me thinking devil's advocate. I I love the world show. I go every year that I can. I am hoping that timing works for me to go this year because you still do have to qualify. The points aren't as high as they used to be. But you do still have to qualify either by points or by events or by state associations, or you can buy in. But I mean, at $5,000 a class or whatever it is, I think that there's not a lot of people that are doing that.

SPEAKER_01 57:55

Which, hold on, I want to just say about that. You would probably spend $5,000 qualifying, though. So and I have said, like, I know people are like, oh my god, $5,000.

SPEAKER_02 58:06

And I'm like, yeah, but if you like didn't show all year round, but are you really gonna be prepared to go compete at the world show if you don't spend that $5,000? No, you're not going to be able to do that. I mean, you might think you are, but if that was me, no. So my my thought on the qualifying, right? The the reduction of points, I think has been I I know what they're trying to do. They're trying to drive people, more people to be qualified, hoping that they will go. I don't think it's qualifying that's the issue. I really don't think it is, because it's it's and I don't want anyone to take offense by this, but it's not hard to qualify to go to the world show these days. Which when you think about it then, so what is preventing people from going? Cost, time, feeling welcome, whatever it might be, right? So I really want to go this year. I have to see if I can make it work with my schedule. And I know AQHA does the best job that they can to make the schedule work, but it is really hard when you are hauling all year to make sure that you're ready to go, to make sure your horse is ready to go. And that last year I was there for 16 days last year. And I showed in the pleasure and the showmanship. It was it was wild how long I had to be there. And so, you know, I think that it's exhausting. It's you know, and and when you do think about the cost, the hotel room is where it gets exactly food gets really expensive for that time. And so I don't think, you know, look at the paint world. You don't have to qualify to go to the paint world. Now, does that diminish their world champions? I I don't know. I'm not a part of that world. I don't think that qualifying is the issue, though. I think that it's cost and I think it's time. And so for me, um, when I think about the world show and driving attendance to the local horse shows, I think that it's scheduling, I think it's cost, and I think it's experience. So to drive people to the local horse shows, having a focus on the experience and the perceived value is extremely important. And then I think that if you're driving more people to the local horse shows, you're driving more camaraderie, you're driving more community, you're going to drive people wanting to go to the world show, wanting to be at that at that level. And that's not everybody's goal. Not everybody wants to go in the world show, and that's okay. That's okay. The Congress doesn't suffer for numbers. So which is weird. You know, it's like, but look at the schedule. Yeah. If you're showing the pleasure in the showmanship, I can get that done into it.

SPEAKER_01 1:00:53

That's a good point.

SPEAKER_02 1:00:54

You know, so it's I I do think, and and I know, you know, Scott Newman and obviously Allie, you're on a committee. I mean, they're trying really hard to try to do things to drive people to these horse shows. But I think I think that it's a multifaceted approach. And I think that, you know, driving people to the local horse shows to drive people to want to uh be there to feel included, to see the prestige and and and the excitement around those year-end horse shows, the Congress, the world show, that sort of thing. So, in my opinion, it's not qualifying, that's the issue, but that's me playing double dead.

SPEAKER_01 1:01:31

Okay, so you kind of, it's more of like the schedule and honestly the cost seriously, the cost of being there for that long of a period, especially like yeah, if you live locally, you could like go home and work for a couple days and then like come back. But that doesn't make sense for a lot of us that it's you know, for me, it's a 24-hour trip uh to drive, anyways. So, Kelly, what do you think? You've been going to the world showed for a long time, also.

SPEAKER_00 1:01:52

Yeah, so I mean, I think Patty like spelled it out really like her her thoughts on it, like that was spelt out really, really well. You know, a big thing is cost. Um, you know, I I was actually having a conversation with a friend of mine that from youth youth days and how different it was when we were youth kids. And I know Allie, you mentioned it earlier, like back back in our days when showmanship, I mean, I remember it being 40 plus points. So my assumption is, you know, they they had to lower the points so much because they didn't have the attendance. And I'm assuming they didn't have the attendance because of the reasons that Patty listed of the cost, the timing, et cetera. I think, you know, one of the things that Clint and I, and actually Clint, I I can't take credit for it. Clint brought it up. He said, you know, we need to do away with the you go to four shows or however, however they calculate it, you go to four shows and you automatically qualify. Yeah. And that would maybe help with some of these local shows. So that being said, you know, us being in Georgia, we can easily run up to South Carolina, Tennessee, even some of the Florida shows in Ocala. And he said, you know, for him, he's got a seven-horse trailer. I mean, they have other trailers too, but his main seven-horse trailer, if he's got, say, me and one other person that needs to qualify and they need like two or three points, he's like, I'm gonna fill that trailer. So he's like, I'm gonna, I'm gonna throw on, you know, two of my senior trail horses and another one. And he's like, we might take him up there in school, but we're still gonna go because or still fill the trailer because it, you know, helps my pocketbook, but helps that horse horses prepare or what have you, or the youth kid prepare for youth world or whatever. So yeah, his point, and I agree with it, is doing away with, you know, basically the participation reward of you participate, you get qualified. Yeah. But I think I think that came acr came around COVID time, right? Yeah. Isn't that when they're gonna be able to do that?

SPEAKER_02 1:04:01

But I just share, and Kelly, sorry for the delay. I yeah, I know we're all there is I did end up qualifying by points this year, but I thought I was gonna have to rely on that because of the hip surgery I had. I couldn't get to the shows where I could and and then by the time that I started showing again, it was the madness. And I'll I'll tell you, I was not physically ready to be in the points at the madness. I mean, I mean nothing with my body. And so then that that counted as two qualifying events for me because it was the cream madness and the madness. And I and I did end up qualifying by points at the corporate challenge, but I thought that I was gonna have to rely on the the event. And and I was happy about that because I was like, this might be the first world show that I don't qualify for.

SPEAKER_00 1:04:50

Right, right. So I mean, that's a valid point too. So I don't, you know, I don't know what the answer exactly would be. You know, and I would wonder what would what would they have done in the the olden days for a situation like that for you, Patty? Or a horse that I just wouldn't be had Yeah. I mean, or like a a horse that had an injury and maybe had six months off or whatever, four months off, and then slowly had to come back, and I guess the horse just they wouldn't be qualified. Or you keep the buy-in part of it. Maybe it's not five thousand dollars to buy in to show, maybe it's twenty five hundred which you know you would spend more than twenty five hundred or whatever to go show.

SPEAKER_02 1:05:32

I also had a suggestion a couple of years ago, and I don't think it went high enough up the food chain, but it's when I had Patrick and I was showing in. I mean, I I wanna say my entry fees at the World Show were almost four thousand dollars. And I was really contemplating between, you know, what classes to do and what and how how I was gonna, you know, really put my my my best foot in the right arena to help to control my cost. And I brought up, you know, an all day fee or a day or a flat fee for the world show I would love. I mean, I don't know how the financials would work or what that would look like, but you know, at some point there's guys I feel like this is great.

SPEAKER_01 1:06:15

I'm posting this.

SPEAKER_02 1:06:18

Because I've always thought if you want to increase your numbers at the world show, increase the amount of classes that the horses that are already there are going in.

SPEAKER_01 1:06:28

Yeah. I think my bill that'll help you right now. Absolutely. I think my bill just for my entries two years ago was also close to four thousand dollars. And I think but I was doing level two and level three classes plus the NSBA, plus I paid into the jackpot. So like I was like, I'm gonna try and win money somehow, some way while I'm there. So I I saved to make sure that I could enter all of those things. But seriously, if they had a flat fee, I almost feel like more people would go. I do. I kind of like that.

SPEAKER_02 1:07:00

Yeah. I I agree. I would say another.

SPEAKER_00 1:07:03

If you're gonna push it hard enough to bring it up the food chain, I should have I think another caveat to it too is, and I'm lucky just because now not being in the corporate world and I can make my own schedule is just the timing after the Congress. And I mean, I don't, I mean, I don't think you could move it to any other time of the year, but it being right afterwards and being a whole nother month. I mean, those poor trainers, you know, after well, now it's all kind of mixed in, but I mean, they're kind of there for another month, you know. It's and then the horses too, you know, because even Clint was saying next year I think I would really evaluate the schedule. Yes, and you know, take some of them home during it because they don't need to stand there for another 10 days, like they need to go home and rest.

SPEAKER_02 1:07:46

So yeah, I know the Congress uh really helped out when they changed their schedule when they moved it up. I think that helped significantly, not only with the world show, but with the weather at the Congress. That too. And then, you know, I know I was looking at the youth world schedule because I want to watch Patrick, and I I was like, I think that this is the first year that the youth world and the NSBA world don't overlap. Which is great, you know, and so I think that I it it there's some things that are starting to work out, they're starting to figure it out. There you can tell that there's intentionality behind it. Um but you know, you you look at the NSBA world show, that's a very, very well attended horse. Yeah, true. And the schedule's manageable. The I mean, I just that's one of my Alex and I were talking yesterday. That I think is our favorite horse show of the entire year. Me too. I love that. We're so excited to go. And uh I know, I know. I know.

SPEAKER_00 1:08:37

And that's a lot of so a lot of horses, a lot of people, and I feel like it's run. They try to run that very well, like giving times, and you know, you don't really ever see them showing past eight or nine o'clock for the most part. And that's a lot of horses going through those arenas.

SPEAKER_01 1:08:56

And there's a lot of opportunities for everyone, I feel like at that horse show. Like somebody, like you have a chance in some class during that horse show, you know, the all the different age groups for the horses, and you know, the trail has like what a four-year-old trail class. Like, I think that that's pretty cool.

SPEAKER_02 1:09:13

Yeah, but first year trail, I think it is like an horselanship now, too. I think I'm doing three pleasure classes. Yeah, Alex is doing three pleasure classes, he's doing three trail classes. I mean, that horse has a busy schedule, and he's only doing he's doing the pleasure, the trail, and the showman's great, and he shows like I want to say 10 times. It's yeah, yeah, that's awesome. That's awesome.

SPEAKER_01 1:09:35

Well, I think we talked about a lot of amazing ideas, and I think these are all something, like some great talking points and some things that I'm hoping maybe some upper level people will jot down and we solved anything, but we definitely put some ideas out there and and we brought the we brought the girl chat to go. We sure did, because I know we talk about all of this stuff a lot, because I think I don't know, I hope I'm right in saying that the majority of us feel this way in the industry right now, and um, we just we want to keep doing it. So we want it to be fun and we want to be excited to go to horse shows, and you know, obviously horse shows are never gonna go away, but just we want to keep them going and keep them fun and keep them somewhat affordable. Listen, it's an expensive sport. We're never gonna make it affordable, so to speak, but we could at least make it within reach or something you could save for and be excited for. So let's get new people. That's right. Yes, and Kelly, go tell the Tennessee walking people to buy some new outfits that you got some really great options for them. Yeah, they've been, I mean, they should look coming and buy it.

SPEAKER_02 1:10:42

Go like parade it around.

SPEAKER_01 1:10:44

I know it's it's been very good. You guys are great.

SPEAKER_02 1:10:47

This has been fun.

SPEAKER_01 1:10:48

I bet. I bet. Well, you guys, um, thank you so much for doing this. I appreciate Kelly. You know, I know you're at work at a horror show with bad service. So I appreciate you. Patty, thank you for bringing all of like your perspective and everything to you guys. I love it. This was great. So thank you. Thank you. Yeah, you go.

unknown 1:11:08

Okay.