Kanter Kulture
Welcome to the Kanter Kulture podcast, hosted by Ali Hubbell- an equestrian, mom, wife and creative that wants to invite you to an unconventional horse-related listening opportunity.
There's enough drama in the horse world...let's talk about something else! Think of our podcast this way: you just got done riding. Your horse is quietly munching hay in his stall. Grab a cocktail (or a mocktail!) and lets chat in the aisle about horses and anything horse related. Like what you hear?! Give us a follow or a share!
Kanter Kulture
Ep 49- LEAN IN: The $60K Opportunity for AQHA Hunters
Use Left/Right to seek, Home/End to jump to start or end. Hold shift to jump forward or backward.
Something new is happening in the AQHA hunter world… and we are HERE for it.
Ali sits down with Lainie DeBoer and Sarah Chabot to break down AQHA English Versatility—from how the idea started and the two-year process of developing it to the brand-new English Versatility Challenge headed to the AQHA World Show.
We’re talking about why the hunter division needed another opportunity, what judges are actually looking for, how the pattern works, who can enter, the VS Code Red Versatility Series, major prizes, $50,000 currently up for grabs at the World Show Challenge, and why this class could open entirely new doors for hunter under saddle horses, riders, breeders and stallion owners.
And before you start picturing your HUS horse staring down a three-foot fence… relax. 😂 The inaugural World Show pattern is designed to be inviting, with rails on the ground, no jumps—and yes, there are even cookies waiting for the horses at the end.
More importantly, this isn't just about adding another class. It's about trying something different, listening to exhibitors and creating new opportunities for the horses we love.
Could English Versatility be a glimpse at the future of the AQHA hunter division?
We think you're going to want to lean into this one.
Want to see what the class looks like? Click Here: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WppJvyVcvrA
Well, let's just try it. Let's, yeah, let's see how it goes. Hopefully we don't have any real technical difficulties. But I am so excited to welcome Sarah Chabot and Lady DeBore here on Taterculture to talk about a really, really exciting, we'll call it an opportunity plus a class for hunting horses, which I feel like is so wild that we haven't had this opportunity before, but it was posted, there's been like a lot of talk about it. And then when A2HA posted about this English versatility class at the A2HA World Show this year, I was like, I gotta talk to these girls. I need to hear the who, the what, the why, everything. So I'm kind of just gonna let you guys tell us about it. But Lainey, if you want to start with why and what made you want to do this class?
SPEAKER_02Well, the why was pretty evident because there was a gap in the hunter world as far as horses and inventory available for people who want to do hunters. So we put together a task force of a bunch of genius people like Sarah and a lot of other wonderful people, and I got the chance to lead it, and it just started to come together as far as a plan of how do we grow the hunters and how do we grow our inventory and also exhibitors. So Dave Dellen was working at the APHA at the time, and him and Sandy Drakowski reached out through Petty Carter, and they told me about this new class they were creating, the English versatility and the Western versatility. And I was like, oh my gosh, I'm gonna take this to the task force. This is brilliant. And I just thought that was exactly what we needed to inject something into our hunter world. So that's that's kind of how it started, and then it just kind of got bigger and more exciting and more creative. And like I said, the people on my task force are so smart, and I just was in awe of what they created, and I just they're along for the ride for sure.
SPEAKER_00Ali, it's taken us about two years. Oh, okay. So I I think it was like I think it's fast, don't you, Alaney? I mean, it was like the summer of twenty-four that I think APHA dove into it and contacted you. Yeah, it's been a long process.
SPEAKER_02And we started out with the pilot program just to kind of get our feet wet, just to see if there was a need in the market, it was gonna do what we wanted it to do. And so we just put it out there and we've been just kind of refining it, but mostly listening to the exhibitors, trainers, judges, and trying to figure out how we honed this class and and it's a two-year process.
SPEAKER_04I think it's incredible, and I got to witness it for the first time at The Madness this year, and I know so. I guess at the Madness was it was it officially an AQHA class, or was it just kind of like a futurity style class?
SPEAKER_00So there's actually three different ways you can participate for English versatility right now. The first is a pilot class through AQHA. So any show can uh like take on the patterns, the rules, or the requirements, and there's a great resource page on AQHA.com that allows you to dive into all the details. So that's that's what was at the madness. And then there's the AQHA versatility series presented by VS Code Red, and that had a 10 show series that had $1,500 on each show plus whatever the show wanted to add to it. And then there's a year-in prize of the series that's for a butate saddle for both the open and the non-pro. So really some amazing prizes just for that series. And then there is the English versatility challenge, which is at the World Show.
SPEAKER_04Cool. So I didn't realize there were so many different opportunities. And okay, I'm all about the prizes, you guys. Because, you know, I mean, it's not like we're barrel racers or rainers and we're we're showing for money every weekend. So this is so neat. So where were the different the where was the series offered?
SPEAKER_00The series started off at the Sun Circuit in Arizona, and it went through Kentucky, Arizona, Texas, Oklahoma, Colorado, Tennessee, New York. So really tried to get a splattering of locations in different sizes of shows as well.
SPEAKER_02Yeah, we tried to we tried to get a cross-section of shows that some didn't have hunters, some had hunter heavy, some were smaller, like the Wisconsin show was a little bit smaller, but needed entries, and we wanted to give them an opportunity. We gave them $1,500 each to kind of create their own seed money. And then the, you know, the ability to raise more money to offer more earnings to people to put towards the year-end awards. And the year-end awards are crazy. I mean, a butte saddle to the winner in the open in the non-pro. We do the top 10. We have Holly Spagnos Spurs, we have lots of goodies. We have Martingales and Halters, Equestria Espoir has like hunt coats and breeches, and it's a goodies, lots of goodies.
SPEAKER_04Wow, this is incredible. So, I mean, just for context, like just the saddle is like around seven, eight thousand dollars, right? Like, I mean, that's a huge prize. And I, you know, even like for someone like me, that makes me want to do it on my he's Western style, but I would want to try. Do it so cool.
SPEAKER_02Well, you could, and it all easily. Easily.
SPEAKER_00And it all really came together with Katie Vince like as well because her sponsorship and support from the show or for the class from the beginning was really the strong starting foundation for both the series and the challenge.
SPEAKER_04That's awesome. That is awesome. And I know like a lot of programs like this, like we need the support of sponsors to get it up and going and running. And then, you know, we can kind of take it from there. So, have you guys seen a lot of participation in this across all the series so far?
SPEAKER_02Yeah, we really have. We've had up to 24, 25. I can't remember whether 30 in New York.
SPEAKER_00Yeah, it was huge in New York and Tennessee. And I think at the NSBA world show is 22.
SPEAKER_04So are you guys keeping like there's like a national standing, and that's kind of how you're monitoring. Yeah. Okay. So do you touch base with people throughout like the year? And or like how does somebody check where they are in the national standings?
SPEAKER_00So if you go to aqha.com backslash English versatility, that is your hub for everything. You can sign up for the challenge at the world show there. You can look at judges, specs, and show management tips and also writer recommendations as well. Just a it's a learning hub, but there's also the standings are there.
SPEAKER_04Okay. Awesome. So with that, I was curious, was there some education that was given to the judges before this rolled out so that they knew how to judge it?
SPEAKER_02Yeah. So what we did was we had a conference call before the first couple talking about what our goal was. And we had actually created a video with perfect products, and you can reach it on YouTube if you go to YouTube and put in English AQHA English versatility, perfect products. You'll come up with a video that we shot at WEC. And we gave that to all the judges, along with the specs, any frequently asked questions, but we also had some calls early on, and we also did follow-up calls, so we could figure out, you know, what are we had changed after the first year a couple of the scoring methods that we felt were maybe not spot on and maybe not working as well as we would like. So we added, like at the end, we added a bonus structure for fluidity and forward. So we rewarded those horses that went in and were more forward and more of the hunter type. And we just gave them a little place to shine. We felt like the judges really wanted something extra to reward people with, or kind of let people know, you know, that's not what we're looking for. You're although you did the maneuver correctly, we really need you to go a little bit more forward, a little more uphill, and and represent like what we want the look to be. It doesn't matter if your horse is 14 hands or 18 hands, just as long as they look like they're covering ground and and looking ahead and being uphill and balanced and just using the track work and the strides, you know. Obviously, they couldn't a smaller horse can add one stride extra, just not three strides extra. So, you know, just really explaining that. And the judges were great about it. They the first judge that called me back was Steve Meadows. And I think of him as like the ranch riding god, and he was so excited, and he told me this was going to be big. So it was exciting.
SPEAKER_04Well, that's neat because his wife and daughter, I remember when I first met them like 20 years ago, that's what they were doing. They were doing mostly the hunters, and then he was doing the Western events. So I'm sure he did have a lot of interest in that. That's really neat. And, you know, I think it's something different. It's something to get excited about. And I have heard a lot of chatter about it. So I want to talk about the world show and how that came to be and how you got it there and put into the schedule. I also want to touch on, I know there's a list for qualifying or like there's 20 people are allowed to enter. And I will say I heard a little chatter this weekend that people were confused as to whether or not they had to compete in the series, if that got them entered, you know, if that got them qualified or not. So if you guys could just talk about the world show and let's start with how you got it in the schedule, and then I'd love to move into the qualifications and how somebody can do it, show there.
SPEAKER_02Well, I think, you know, whenever you have a name like Katie Van Slyck and you have that name of a person that not only is supporting actively supporting the industry, but is so excited about this class. And she when we talked to her about it, we just started thinking this was going to be bigger than we could ever imagine. And when I watched the PVC, the Pleasure Versatility Challenge, I was like, we could totally do this. Like I think with Katie's backing as the VS Code Red sponsorship, how could we take that sponsorship and really, you know, utilize it across not only the series, but create our own challenge? So, you know, it it definitely was inspired by the PVC and it was already in the world show. And I brought it to a couple of, well, obviously, Dave Dellon was coming in and that helped. And a couple other people, I just pitched it to them and said, What do you think of this? Like, I think it would be such a great way to try to give an undersaddle rider a place to shine and have an extra class for them to participate in, win some more money at the world, give us more horses a different look in the ring than maybe in the under saddle portion, but really see them, you know, going over some rails and going forward and really see them in that light. And maybe it would improve sales or it would help a breeder, or it would just open up a whole avenue. So that's what I pitched. And AQHA was like all over it. They were wonderful to deal with, they were absolutely looking for something like this for the English horse because there's something for the ranching, there's something for the pleasure horse, but there really wasn't anything for an English horse. And we had had like Huntfield derbies years ago, and I had started that with David Warner and I, but you know, this was something more for the under saddle horse. There's nothing there for them that was super special. So that's kind of how that came to be.
SPEAKER_04And that's really interesting. Oh, hold on, Sarah. I just want to mention that I think that that's very, very interesting because again, in talking about it this weekend at one of the horse shows, somebody said, you know, this is just a hunter under saddle horse. Like it's not gonna be a three-foot hunter, like it's not probably capable of showing on the UCF circuit. Also, it's just a hunter under saddle horse. And I was thinking that is this class is wonderful for that mentality where, you know, they can maybe start thinking about an overfense career, see if it is a direction that the horse could go in or not. I love that you're offering this in keeping in mind the breeders and the people that feel like they don't have somewhere to showcase a certain type of horse. So I just think that this was like a really neat outside the box moment. So very cool.
SPEAKER_00So, Sarah, you're please go ahead. I was just gonna add on to Laney's statement that it definitely is for hunter saddle riders, but it's also for hunter riders too. It creates just a foundation across the test and the three classes. So there's a pattern that's done, and then the working hunter under a saddle, and then the confirmation. And so it just is a really great highlight for horses at the beginning of their career that are that are bred and built for this job. They might never jump a fence, they might jump three foot, but that's the whole point of the class, right?
SPEAKER_04That's really neat. So, okay, explain to me. So I do like the all-around. So I this is like a whole nother world to me. I mean, I jump a little here and there, but not on a quarter horse. So this is really different for me. So when they're judging the working hunter under saddle portion of this, ideally, what should that horse be exhibiting?
SPEAKER_02Well, they should look like the what where our goal is the working hunter under saddle specs come into play. So if you have any have been able to watch that class, and that's again another class that has evolved in such a beautiful class, I think. I mean, it's I I think it's forward, it's it's horses that are exhibiting the way that they would over fences, they're looking up, they're covering ground, they're showing balance, the quality of the movement is imperative. Oh, sorry. Can you hear that? My dogs are barking. Sorry. That's okay. It's real life. Okay, I had to move into the house. So, you know, we're we're looking for that that hunter horse under saddle, that that's where you're gonna shine, right? And so that's what we're looking for as far as working hunter under saddle. Now, the the versatility pattern is worth 50%, so that weighs the heaviest, but the working hunter under saddle and the confirmation are both 25%. And I'm probably most excited about the confirmation because I grew up in the USCF world and we had confirmation for ponies and confirmation hunters, and I think this is just a really great way to shine uh light on what we're breeding and that we're breeding horses that are really meant to stand up to functionally do be a hunter. Cool.
SPEAKER_04I love it. So in the pattern portion, what is there going to be? I know there's multiple patterns right now that people can or that like the shows can put out, but at the world show specifically, like, are you going to release the pattern ahead of time?
SPEAKER_02Yes, I can probably scoop this. You're the first scoop of this. We are gonna release the pattern, but the the coolest part is we're gonna do a like AI rendering of it with a uh the course designers like per maneuver, what the the questions what you know questions need to be answered. And then we're also gonna do a judge's perspective of where they would what they are looking for in that maneuver. This is so cool. I wish that we could do this for every division. Well, we're hoping that we will lead the way. Yeah. So we should have that out by next week.
SPEAKER_04Wow. Yeah, that's so neat. So people are gonna have to get out their shrubbery and their poles and their cavaletis, and they're gonna have to start to like spook their horses, right?
SPEAKER_02And see if well, okay, this is the coolest part too, and this is very important. Very important. So the ranch riding was a big inspiration for this. So when ranch riding started, it was quite toned down to what it is today. And we really want people to get comfortable with this class, get a feel of it. So we're just putting for the finals. We're having rails on the ground. There's no jumps, there's gonna be standards, but we're gonna have rails on the ground. We're going to have actually some walkthroughs through some straw bales. It's gonna be incredibly inviting. The pattern, I've ridden it, it's lovely. It was made by David Warner, and I think people are gonna be really surprised about how inviting it is. And I think how it's not intimidating at all. The best part is that the wonderful we have Mrs. Pasture's cookies, and so when you get off your horse and run up your stirrups and put your reins over their head, you can give them cookies.
SPEAKER_04No way. You guys, I love this. This is like the coolest thing ever. I love it. It's like it's about, and you know what? I guess what I'm getting from this too is it's about the horse, right? And like I feel like we forget about that. We do, we do, we all have, we've been there, but this is so neat that it's about the horse and the experience the horse is having, you know, and that's very, very cool. Yeah, very, very cool.
SPEAKER_02We're so excited. I think the neatest thing is about bringing in all these new sponsors that are like first-time AQHA sponsors, and they're seeing our horse in a different light. We probably have 10 new sponsors minimum, maybe 15. And and that was our agreement with AQHA. We didn't want to keep reusing the same sponsors and getting them a little bit tired. We wanted somebody fresh to come in and support our uh AQHA and just learn about the quarter horse. So we've done that. Who are some of the new sponsors, if you guys can tell us? Well, but is a big one. Mrs. Pastures Cookies. We have Espoire, which is a beautiful clothing line. It's just fantastic. We have uh Premier Veterinary Products, we have Perfect Products. And is there anybody else missing? There's Grayson Foundation. Oh, the Grayson Foundation. Yes, yes. Grayson Foundation is the third red arm of the Jockey Club. It's the or I mean the foundational arm of the jockey club. So we're really excited about them because they are all about. Education and research, and they give so much back to the industry on every level. So they've been amazing.
SPEAKER_04That's awesome. So I mean, this is I like it's all just like so amazing. I I feel like I'm I want to compete in it. So but right now it's just is it just open though? Is it like an open division?
SPEAKER_02It's it's it's open, but we have all these special awards. Oh we have a thousand dollar non-pro award. We have an emerging hunter award. Wow. A breeder award and the leading stallion owner award.
SPEAKER_04Okay. So and does somebody have to own their horse to compete in this? Do they have to be like, I mean, no, right? Because it's an open class. Yeah. Okay. Okay. Oh, my wheels are turning.
SPEAKER_02Well, and your hor has your horse competed in jumping ever?
SPEAKER_04No. Right, right. So that's the other qualification, right? They can never have been over fences. Yeah. Yeah. So you could totally do it. You go, girl. My gosh. My horse would be like, what is this?
SPEAKER_02Okay, but this is the best part. And this is this is so fun. We are doing a party the night before. Halloween. And we're doing with the exhibitors and the sponsors. And all the exhibitors are gonna get backpacks, VS Code Red backpacks. First, and they are gonna be filled to the brim with lots of goodies. We're gonna have um we have stallion drinks. So our sponsors, stallions, are gonna each have their own cocktail or mocktail. And we're gonna have a dessert bar by perfect products and a draw party with dapple up shampoo.
SPEAKER_04So cool. Like, and I love it. Like, I love the hype that you guys are building around this too. So the people, like the exhibitors are excited. They're not nervous, they're not intimidated, they're excited. So that is cool.
SPEAKER_02Well, just tell them to sign up, get their entries in.
SPEAKER_04Yeah. Well, I feel like there's going to be way more than 20 people wanting to do this. First of all, so how how does that work?
SPEAKER_02Do you want to go out?
SPEAKER_03It's right on the world show entries, correct?
SPEAKER_00You can sign up. So there's information at the world show resources page, but there's also on that English versatility page, there's a link there as well.
SPEAKER_04That has I was gonna say, what if they don't make the cutoff and you guys get like a hundred entries?
SPEAKER_02We have we'll have a wait list depending. So the sooner you get it in, the better, because the wait list is dependent on how quickly we get them in order that we get in.
SPEAKER_04And then I saw that the entry fee is like uh it's like a thousand dollars or something, right? For now. And then it goes up a little bit if you wait till the end to enter. So I know some people are like, oh my gosh, that's expensive. But the thing is, A, you're getting a party, okay? Like a real, like not just a party, like like a really cool party and with loot and all this stuff. But there's also cash if you're in this class, right?
SPEAKER_02Yes, yes. We have right now $50,000. And as the entries grow, that will only grow as far as money added back and also money towards the emerging Hunter Rider Award. That is so cool.
SPEAKER_04Okay, so basically, if somebody even gets last 20th place, is there will that person still be eligible for some sort of payback?
SPEAKER_02There'll be uh eligible for an award. We're going to do the top 10 but overall, but you can also place in each class and get ribbons. Oh, yeah, okay. But you can also uh get top ten or get in the special awards. So say you're a non-pro and you didn't get in the top ten, you would win the thousand if you win the high point non-pro award, it would pay your entries. Okay. Well, that's great. Okay, that's always a positive.
SPEAKER_00Nice.
SPEAKER_03Am I missing anything, Sarah?
SPEAKER_00No, I think you're I think you're right on.
SPEAKER_04So as far as the qualifying, I know I we touched on it and Sarah, I think you were gonna talk to us a little bit more about that, maybe. But so they did not have to qualify. This is just an entry.
SPEAKER_00You could buy a horse tomorrow, sign up for this. I'm trying, aren't I? I'm trying to buy a horse for it, literally. I was like, you pay for the horse.
SPEAKER_03You win it.
unknownYeah.
SPEAKER_00You can buy a horse tomorrow, sign up for it, and the requirements are that it's at least four years old and that it hasn't been shown over fences.
SPEAKER_04That's, I mean, too easy, right? Like too easy. Now, just from you both of your perspectives, what else? Why should somebody want to do this class? I know we talked about like it's an opportunity for breeders, it's an opportunity for stallion owners and things like that. But what about like individuals? Like, do you have a reason why just an individual say they're not a breeder or they're not a stallion owner? Why should they do this?
SPEAKER_00Can I just say that I've been showing in the pilot classes and the VS Code Red series for the last bit, and it's just fun. It's fun. It is a fun class, it's so fun.
SPEAKER_02It is. It's just everybody just smiles. It's so fun to be at the in-gate, and people are so appreciative. And actually, perfect example is I just got a message from a woman in Sweden. And she won the APHA versatility class at the uh Swedish national show or whatever they have. And she is like, we have to keep this going. I want this at every show. Everybody loved it. I've gotten similar messages from a woman in Germany and Switzerland, and this is just a much bigger thing than we can imagine. Awesome. I know.
SPEAKER_04I I mean, I so, and also it's if nobody has seen the Western versatility at the world show. I mean, they come in with wheelbarrows and they do the change, and it's like it's fun, right? Like it's everybody's hooping and hollering and cheering, and it's it's like an event to watch. It's like the versatility they used to have at the Congress. So is this going to be similar?
SPEAKER_02Well, we didn't do that part. I think we're gonna let everybody leave the arena, take a breath, get their horses stripped down, and I think that's a place where we can really put emphasis on our sponsors and do some fun, funny interviews and you know, kind of take a different approach as far as our exhibitors don't have to feel rushed, and but our sponsors can feel appreciated.
SPEAKER_04I love that. That's really nice. And then for the confirmation portion, will you do that first or last? Because I know they do it last, I feel like in the western, and the horses have this, they're sweaty and they have their saddle marks and stuff.
SPEAKER_02So, how will you guys do that? We're gonna do that at the end, and we're gonna give them 15 minutes to get their horses cooled down and get presented beautifully and in a bridle, and it's going to be really beautiful. I just think it's gonna be really neat.
SPEAKER_04Yeah, I do too. I I like I'm so excited. Yeah, this is well, and it's a little bit like a real division in the UCF world, right? Too like that this is like it's like a division, yeah. So I think that's exciting. Yeah, really exciting.
SPEAKER_02We really want this is the approach we want to try to go towards as an overhaul of our division. Overhaul is that we have to see if there's a need or a want. We have to see if there's a need or a want for it. So this is just a little dip in this pool to see if there's a change ahead of us.
SPEAKER_04I think so. Like I said, I've heard a lot of people talking about it, a lot of people that want to show in this division and like they're already getting ready. You know, they got their polls out and they're they're, you know, trying to figure out what strides their hunter under saddle horses have. So I think this is a wonderful opportunity. You know, I would be excited for next year too, if there is like a non-pro division and an open division, or, you know, kind of to see where this evolves from here. I think you, I personally think you guys are going to have a ton of people wanting to do this. I I can't imagine people being like, eh, that's not a great thing, or, you know, it's I can see all benefit.
SPEAKER_02You know, if they had like a senior under saddle or a junior or green, why wouldn't you? I mean, you're have a chance to win a ton of money, get three prizes no matter what, yeah, and just have a great time and really pay for your world show.
SPEAKER_01I mean, or even if you just wanted to come in for the class, yeah. You can see what the world showed and you can show in this fun class on top of it. Maybe next year you bring more horses and show it the world show.
SPEAKER_04Absolutely. Absolutely. I love it. I think it's a great opportunity. I think I've said I love it 25 times in the half an hour we've been talking, but I really do. Is there anything else you guys want to add just to make sure people know how to get, you know, how to enter or any other specifics?
SPEAKER_00Well, first of all, don't be afraid to reach out to myself or Laney or anyone else that's on the 100 task force. We're happy to answer questions or point you in the right direction. There are so much information. I can't stress this enough on aqha.com backslash English versatility from what the judges are looking for to class specs and roles and how to enter in the leaderboard for the series. So use that as a guide in a first place to get your questions answered. And then feel free to reach out to us and and start shopping. You've got all weekend. And if anybody has a horse out there that they think I need, let me know.
SPEAKER_03Last night we could do a European award. Oh. So maybe there was an international.
SPEAKER_02If we had an international entry or two, we would have an international award.
SPEAKER_04Can Canadian would count, right? If they were Canadian? Oh I've that I feel like there's a lot of Canadians that come down for the world show, so that could be a possibility. So there's a plug for the internationals for sure. Wow, I love that.
SPEAKER_01I'm so excited. I can't wait for you guys to experience that. Yeah. But like frequently asked questions on the EQHA website, is there's no certain tone that was unsure. Does that make sense?
SPEAKER_03Yes.
SPEAKER_00Yes. Well, I also just want to say, I think everybody if they could have an open mind that this is just the beginning and it's going to be awesome. And we're going to continue to learn and listen. But like, wrap your arms around this opportunity. Yeah.
SPEAKER_04Everybody lean in, right? We're trying to make some progress. Yes, for sure. Oh, well, I thank you guys for taking time to do this with me and getting the info out there about something that's really exciting. And again, what I think is like, I personally think is the right, it's a step in the right direction for AQHA, the world show, showing in general, giving horses something fun to go do. And, you know, keep us posted. I'm so excited about the rendering. I can't wait to see that.
SPEAKER_03I'm so excited.
SPEAKER_01I think it's gonna be uh changing the industry and maybe even like trail patterns, uh bench riding patterns.
SPEAKER_04It's yeah, that is that is so cool and like ahead of the curve, right? Like that is like I would have never thought about that. And that's really, really cool. It's like a virtual tour of a house or something, but really, really neat. Really neat. Well, keep us posted if there's I know you guys are, you guys are really doing a great job communicating everything. And um, I hope that this podcast even gives you guys a little bit more push and drives some more excitement towards this class. I know I can't wait to watch, and good luck, you guys. Best of luck with this. Yeah, you're so welcome. Oh, thanks.