Fortitude: Turning Tragedy into Action
A podcast by the Parent Action Network (PAN), a division of Smart Approaches to Marijuana (SAM), dedicated to amplifying the voices of parents whose lives have been devastated by the harmful effects of marijuana. Each episode features personal interviews with parents sharing their heart-wrenching stories of loss, addiction, and the impact on their families. Through these powerful narratives, PAN aims to educate, inspire, and mobilize listeners to take action against the widespread dangers of marijuana use.
Fortitude: Turning Tragedy into Action
From Tragedy to Advocacy: The Bacchus' Fight Against Cannabis-Induced Psychosis
Can you imagine a substance you once thought harmless becoming the catalyst for unimaginable tragedy? Meet Heather and Randy Bacchus, who share the devastating story of losing their son, Randy Jr., to suicide after a cannabis-induced psychotic episode. They take us through their journey from an ordinary family life to the chaos and heartbreak brought on by their son's addiction. They never suspected marijuana could pose such a significant threat, revealing the stark reality of today's high-potency cannabis products.
We unravel the complexities of marijuana's impact on mental health and family dynamics, challenging common misconceptions that marijuana is merely a benign or medicinal substance. Heather and Randy vividly recount the emotional turmoil as they supported their son through his struggle, highlighting the frustrations encountered when cannabis-induced psychosis is not adequately recognized by medical professionals. This episode underscores the necessity of accurate information and a compassionate approach to substance use disorder, emphasizing it as a legitimate illness rather than a moral failing.
Heather and Randy's story doesn't end in despair—they've channeled their grief into advocacy with Smart Approaches to Marijuana (SAM) and founded their nonprofit, Be Extraordinary, Be You. Their mission is to educate others about the dangers of marijuana addiction, especially among youth, by sharing Randy Jr.'s story. Through legislative efforts and community engagement, they aim to prevent further tragedies. This episode will leave you with a profound understanding of the urgent need for awareness, better regulations, and the power of community support in addressing the challenges posed by today's marijuana products.
Follow PAN and SAM:
PAN:
https://parentaction.network/
https://x.com/parentactionSAM
https://www.facebook.com/parentactionnetworkSAM
SAM:
https://learnaboutsam.org/
https://x.com/learnaboutsam
https://www.facebook.com/learnaboutsam
Hi there, this is Chrissy Groenwegen. I'm the director of the Parent Action Network for Smart Approaches to Marijuana, and this podcast, which we're calling Fortitude, is designed to speak with the parents who have joined our network and who have all suffered unimaginable harms from the legalization, commercialization and industrialization of today's high-potency marijuana products. I want to talk a little bit about what Parent Action Network does so we amplify the voices of our families, who have come to us with their stories and want to make a difference, whether that be through advocacy or starting their own nonprofits and so many other ways that they just want to pass on the message of the harms of today's marijuana products. We have been working with many families and helping them get their stories out there, and we meet with more and more families every day. This is a growing problem, and it's about time that the public, and especially our legislators and law enforcement officers, begin to understand exactly what's going on with this marijuana legalization, and so the PAN podcast is an opportunity to listen to some of these stories from our parents and hear what they're doing to make a difference. We honor them at PAN and Smart Approaches to Marijuana for their fortitude, which is their resilience in the face of pain and suffering and every week we'll hear a different story. And our first family that we're going to be meeting with are Heather and Randy Bacchus. Heather and Randy come from Minnesota. They came to PAN about a year and a half ago with an unimaginable story when they suffered the tragic loss of their son, randy Jr their only son to a suicide-completed while in a cannabis-induced psychotic state. So thank you, heather and Randy, for being here. I really appreciate you taking the time.
Speaker 2:We're going to go through a couple of questions so that we can learn more about your story.
Speaker 2:And you know, one of the things that greatly interests a lot of people and that we talk about is the fact that what was life like before this happened and what was your stance on marijuana? So many families come to us thinking that and even relaying that they didn't really think it was that big of a problem. They weren't really sure they had heard all the messaging out there that this is safe, this is medicinal, it's therapeutic, and all the lines we hear from the pro-pot industry. So many of these families, with their children and loved ones, had never experienced any kind of mental health issue, any kind of physical issue related to anything or especially any other substance, and they find out once these episodes happen, that this was all related to marijuana, and more and more families have documentation to prove that as a fact. So so, heather and Randy, what was your life like before this event and what was it like for your loved ones and your daughters, cause I I know that you have three daughters?
Speaker 1:Yeah. So thanks, chrissy, for having us on. Um, I would say you know, we were just a pretty normal family. We have our four kids, there are four kids and, um, I would say we were trying to raise happy, healthy kids, doing all the things that we should be to do so had them at good schools, had them at the schools that were suited to meet their needs. We brought them to the doctor, we had them involved in sports, we went to church on a regular basis, we had family dinners. We did all the things that we possibly could to raise happy and healthy kids.
Speaker 1:Before this came into our life and granted our son, you know he did have ADHD. He had a mild dyslexia and a processing. His processing speed was low but he had great memorization skills. He was very verbally. He had great verbal skills and written skills. So he was a sharp little cookie. He just didn't think necessarily like everyone else all the time. He wasn't a linear thinker. So you know, we did have some testing and things done like that. So with ADHD comes some impulsivity and we were dealing with that, came into our lives and the chaos that it brought. We were just trying to raise our kids to be healthy, happy individuals. And I would say, regarding substances, we had a stance where, because both of us have addiction, that is, in our families we were aware that addiction is a real thing, it is something to be alert to and we tried to make our kids aware of addiction. But kids are kids, they do experiment and that is what happened with our son.
Speaker 3:And Chrissy Randy here. So thank you for having us on. Just to kind of give you an idea. We talked to our kids about drugs and alcohol, but you know, interestingly enough, marijuana was truly never really on our radar because, growing up marijuana when I was in high school and this was in the 80s a lot of the kids who smoked pot were kind of more the burnouts. What we didn't know at that time was that marijuana had really had kind of an evolution from the standpoint that you know, it wasn't just the people that were burnouts. Uh, when our son was in school these were also kids that were, you know, captains of the hockey team or captains of the dance team.
Speaker 3:So this covered all groups of people. It didn't really discriminate, and so we would talk to them about alcohol and marijuana. As I said, we just didn't. We thought it was kind of a benign substance and it's silly to say that now, but at the time we thought we don't want our son smoking pot because we don't want him to be a burnout. We want him to be successful, we want him to have all the opportunities in life, not realizing that this product was really out there a lot, and as we when we first started dealing with this with him, you know, we come to find out that marijuana was a lot easier to get than alcohol was, and our big concern was always, you know, drinking and and uh it was much more prevalent than we realized.
Speaker 1:we didn't realize how much accessibility the kids had to it until we started, until our son was involved in it, and then we started asking questions and realized and we're told it's easier for them to get than alcohol.
Speaker 3:in all reality, so to a point we were somewhat naive with it and it wasn't so we didn't favor when they would talk about legalization back eight years ago. We were not in favor of it, but we also were not really that strong opponents of it because we looked at it and said, you know, you know, people kind of have this freedom of choice, especially for adults. But the simple truth of the matter is, you know, this is, this is much different than the marijuana that we grew up with. This is not the stuff that you know, the weed that was around in the seventies or eighties. This stuff is like hyper weed. This stuff is super strong. The potencies are off the chart, things that we had no idea when our son was even using.
Speaker 2:Right, and that is unfortunately the resounding message out there is that a lot of people did think it was a benign substance, as you said, and you know it also was not the biggest issue for many people. One way or the other, you know, a lot of people weren't pro or con, they just really didn't care. You know, because I think people that generally used marijuana were going to be using it no matter what. So it's more about what happened once legalization hit, and then everybody starts using it, you know, because they're buying into the messaging that, oh all right, this might be better than alcohol, which, if you think about it in some ways, is not a bad way to think. You know to turn around and say, well, alcohol is really bad, nobody likes a hangover, nobody wants to drive drunk, you know.
Speaker 2:And so, oh well, is this something that might, you know, give me a little, have a good time out there, but it's natural and it's a plant and and everybody's saying it's not harmful. So maybe I'll do this instead. And then look where we end up. You know, because, like you said, this is no longer a three to five percent potent plant where you're smoking it. This is now, in major, all kinds of different forms the edibles, the dabbing, of course, the vaping, and these are all lab-altered products at this point, and so you end up with a completely new substance that is addictive and is leading to all kinds of problems, and especially with the developing brain, and especially with the developing brain, which is vulnerable until 25 to 30 years old.
Speaker 3:So, and you already did mention your stance on marijuana, so, but what's interesting about that is, you know, if we, if we kind of peel back and go back in time, you know there were so many things. So our son started using it as 15. We first caught him and we were were really disappointed and we had consequences and a couple of the older neighbor boys that had just graduated high school so he was in between his freshman and sophomore year they apologized for smoking weed with him and so they're going off to college and they promised me. We sat down and they said we will never do that again, we're never going to use that product again. I said here's the just whatever you do, do not use it with my son.
Speaker 3:And we still had no idea what this product was. We just thought it was marijuana. But as he started using after that, we ended up he got busted again with those same kids and they came back from college at winter break and so they got in trouble again and looking back at it we realized now that he was using a lot more than we ever thought and so we took him to a therapist and we took him to a psychologist and you know we were told, because we put him in, because he was acting immature at school that one of the guys said well, you know, kids are going to smoke pot, it's no big deal, they're going to drive smoking pot, you know, they're just going to drive a little bit slower.
Speaker 1:And these are things we didn't really want to hear, so these professionals that we went to were still buying.
Speaker 3:They weren't up to date. Well, they weren't up to date. They were buying the fact that this product was what it was in the 70s, when they were in college. This is no longer the deal. So, you know, when he first started using, we saw a change in his personality but we had no idea it was marijuana. First started using, we saw a change in his personality but we had no idea it was marijuana. We thought it was just part of teenage angst, kind of going through hormonal changes in which he was doing because he was growing. But part of the reason why he started smoking pot, he told us it was for social acceptance. He liked being able to hang out with the older kids.
Speaker 2:And it kind of gave him something that was different than his ADHD medicine and it kind of calmed his brain. And you know, I will say, when you say that he wanted to fit in, and you know, for social acceptance In a sense. You know you mentioned that and you're right that teenagers do experiment. It is a rite of passage, a coming into your own, a trying to fit in and in a different world. That might not lead to addiction or create the problems that it's created today. And, yes, there should be consequences and we don't want our kids doing these things. And you know, schools should be educating about substances. But, as you said, when this first hit, nobody, nobody realized how harmful this new substance was or that it even was a different substance. You know, people were not people from our time or from the 70s, 80s who smoked. They smoked, that's it. You smoked it and I don't know. Yes, there were burnouts and there were people that used it in excess, but they also just ended up. You talk about the munchies and relaxing and things like that. So there was something to say to. Well, it relaxes your mind a little bit.
Speaker 2:What happened with this product slowly emerged and came into all of our knowledge. But then I think the harmful part of what happened is that, while scientists and doctors were beginning to see problems, as so many more families were stepping up and looking for help and coming to the conclusion that, oh my gosh, this is marijuana, because, whether that be from drug tests at home or drug tests in a hospital or from an emergency room or a psychiatric evaluation, we began to understand this. But, regardless of the science and knowing, big marijuana and anyone who was on pro pot and looking at the almighty dollar didn't care. And that's still the case and that's the biggest problem here and really sinful and unacceptable.
Speaker 2:And I really hope that agencies like Smart Approaches to Marijuana and what we're doing at Parent Action Network and Johnny's Ambassadors and so many others out there, that they are beginning to spread awareness and make a difference. And I'm sure you've heard from friends and family in the past and you know I've heard it from friends and family as well who know what I do Like oh well, why do you do what you do? Nobody's listening. But I don't believe that that's true. People are beginning to listen. That's true, people are beginning to listen. And I have always had the stance that if one person, every single presentation, every time I speak to a group, anywhere it is. If one person changes their mind and continues to spread this message, then you have made a difference and certainly we are all doing that. And again I feel that the parents like yourselves are by far braver than I've ever been, and it is beyond commendable and really something to admire.
Speaker 3:Well, it's kind of part of our life. So I mean it's you know, after he started using, and we didn't realize as we talked about that, that it caused the things that happened with him. We thought, you know, maybe he was just off his rocker and a lot of the things once he moved out of the house. Well, first of all, when he lived in our house it was pure chaos, because once he started using marijuana, it was pure chaos, it was continually. We were prisoners in our own home at certain points, and it sounds funny to say that, because people say what do you mean? You could always make a change. Well, it's not that easy when you have somebody who's kind of belligerent and everything you do they're not happy with because they want to be able to smoke pot in your house and you tell them you can't.
Speaker 2:Yep.
Speaker 3:But you look at this substance and his evolution. He then moved out once he was 18. He moved out to Colorado a legal youth state to go to school and he attended. He took a first year off as a gap year, got his residency off as a gap year, got his residency. But he just walked into kind of the lion's den from the standpoint that that was the first state to legalize.
Speaker 2:What many refer to as ground zero for this debacle.
Speaker 3:It really was, and I think that a lot of these youth, when they see that it's legal in these states which now it's legal in our state a few years later, after he's passed, it's legal here in Minnesota. But they look at the legalization and say, well, alcohol is way worse, and alcohol I'm sneaking alcohol at age 18 or 19. So marijuana really shouldn't be any big deal. And that's where the fallacy is, that people just need to know this. It doesn't mean that everybody that hears these stories is going to change their trajectory. But if we can affect and let people know, on just a few every time, just a few people, incrementally, the word will get out and the changes will get made and ideally there'll be less collateral damage as we go forward. And that's what our goal is.
Speaker 1:Yeah, and I also think you know the one thing we didn't know was we didn't know how it impacted his brain development. And had we had that science and that knowledge when he was using and in our house, we would have had more of a tool, because he was a sharp kid, he wanted to do well, he wanted to be successful in life. And maybe if we would have had the right talking points to say you know, when you use marijuana, this is how it interacts with your brain and this is what it's doing and it's changing it structurally, it's having a long, you know, permanent impact on how your brain will function. It's like putting bad software into a computer. You don't want to do it. And just to help him see that so that maybe he could have made better choices.
Speaker 1:And I think when we talk to people and we try to help give them the science behind it, then I think people are like, oh, and they really put pieces together and can see. Because our son believed all the industry talking points. He believed it was medicinal. He believed it helped him with his anxiety, his depression. I mean you name a talking point by the industry. He was bought hook line and sinker.
Speaker 3:And the simple fact of the matter is you Google marijuana. Oh yeah, the industry owns the first page. Yes, and if you?
Speaker 1:don't know to Google marijuana-induced psychosis, because you don't know that that's a thing you don't.
Speaker 1:Google it and you don't get any information. So you know we were working with professionals. They would attribute, they knew of his use, but they would never attribute anything to his use, and so they diagnosed him with a. Well, maybe he has a mood disorder. Well, maybe he doesn't have a mood disorder. Maybe it's because of the marijuana he's putting into his brain and he's reacting and he's addicted and he's not able to regulate his moods anymore because his brain is so disrupted but even even when we had him, when he was in colorado and we were trying to help him because he wanted help, nobody told us cannabis induced psychosis.
Speaker 3:They said I was in psychosis but it's resolved. But he's got a mood disorder, pts, he's got anxiety, depression, all these things.
Speaker 3:All these things, but nobody ever said cannabis induced psychosis and we're thinking psychosis resolved. Okay, what does that mean? Because marijuana is not supposed to cause psychosis, that's only the health drugs, and the fact of the matter is what we learned afterwards is it's at the highest conversion rate. But these are things that slowly are getting out there. But people need to know this because if they don't know this, they're not going to have a chance at helping their child navigate through this.
Speaker 1:Well, and not only that. If you can understand the disease, the impact on the brain, you can love your child a lot easier than thinking it's them as a person. So you separate the behavior from the person and realize it's an addiction. It's not, it doesn't define my child. That person that you know, love and care about is in there. They're just. You know addiction has taken over, and so that would have been really helpful for us, because we had a lot of anger and frustration with him and, looking back, it would have been a lot easier to understand had we been able to differentiate the two right, but even so, you know, a lot of parents deal with the guilt what did I do wrong?
Speaker 2:You know how did this happen. You know and again we hear more and more you know, in the past, any addiction was thought of as a moral failing, a deviance of some kind, and the strongest message here is that, first of all, this is a disorder, an illness like anything else. We don't ridicule people for having cancer, we don't ridicule people for having diabetes, and mental illness and substance use disorder are exactly that mental illnesses and disorders that need to be treated as such. And it is no reflection on an upbringing because, as you said, like so many other families, you did everything right. You raised your children in a Christian, wonderful household with morals and rules and love and family orientation, and this happened anyway. So that's something that I think a message for all families and parents dealing with this that you cannot blame yourselves and you cannot let anyone make you feel stigmatized in any way by this. In fact, it's so much more important to bring out this information, you know.
Speaker 3:But it is hard looking at it now because if we could go back in time, obviously it always changed things right, right, but when he was really at his tipping point before he took his life. You know, the last eight months of his life were really interesting because we saw a huge change and that was part of that cannabis-induced psychosis which we were not aware of. But we look at it and we sent him to a treatment center because he wanted to go get help, sent him to a treatment center. After a couple of days he was crawling out of his skin. He didn't want to be there. He had his own plan to get sober and he was living in Colorado, which is a thousand miles from where we live.
Speaker 3:I took him to the treatment center, which was in Florida, so that's a couple thousand miles from where we live, and he left the treatment center. And it was really frustrating because there was a lot of anger us to him and him to us. But once again, we had no idea that marijuana would cause these things. We thought he had a lot of mental illness and there was periods of times where he would seem like he was all together and what we come to find out was with, like cannabis, induced psychosis is it can become permanent, but before it becomes permanent they can be 40% or 50% of the time, in that the other time they're normal and they're able to function just like any other mental illness. And those are things that we don't have regrets, but those are things we wish we would have known, because we could have helped treat him better. We could have made sure that he had the stuff that he needed when he went to the treatment center, instead of dropping them off and leaving them with a driver that picked them up at the airport. I would have stayed around there for a couple of weeks, but once again, we didn't know. And so our part of our journey now is we know so many people that have struggled with their kids going through mental issues due to marijuana, due to drugs, also due to alcohol. We've just come across a lot of people. Some people have lost their children, some people, their children are still alive, but the common thread is a lot of people are ashamed of this and our son is dead now.
Speaker 3:So from our standpoint, you know it's hard to talk about it, but yet I think it's really important, because parents need to know this, just as a father, I mean I I think of when we first started having issues our son. We used to said right at a passage, and that was kind of what I thought okay, he's going to test our boundaries. And as a as a father, I thought, okay, he'll, he'll get back on track. But what I've come to learn and meet a lot of other dads around the country or talk with them or Zoom is, you know, there's a sense of denial in the beginning. Usually the mother has a pretty good grasp. The father thinks, ah, they're just, this is just a period, this'll, it'll be better. And it's really letting those fathers know that maybe are not experiencing this today, but may experience it, knowing that you need to address it, because if you don't address it, it's not going to go away. Right, it doesn't just disappear. I wish it did.
Speaker 2:Right to not use the substance anymore to try and heal themselves. They still. It could be six months later. They still can experience psychosis, because there's a part of it that's almost like a well, it is a withdrawal process and that is not an easy process either, and we hear of so many families dealing with that as well. So, yeah, the psychosis has to be understood and addressed, and luckily there are. We are ending up with more and more places throughout the country that are becoming aware, are educating themselves, are educated already and are addressing cannabis induced psychosis. And one of the messages that parent, that Parent Action Network, gives to every parent and family we interview.
Speaker 2:We ask a few different things. We ask number one do you have any formal diagnosis in writing, even from an emergency room, a psychiatrist, anything that lists the disorder or the problem as cannabis-induced and or cannabis use disorder or anything related to marijuana? And we're like make sure you keep that, you know, don't ever lose that paperwork. And if you don't have a diagnosis, go back and see if you can get one. And, of course, always keep all blood work, because so many stories we hear is that the only substance in the system was marijuana, which is very telling you know. So that's important.
Speaker 2:And then the other thing that we, you know, we always affirm which is sad but true is that you're not alone and that there are people that understand, and I think that that is why networks like Parent Action Network and agencies like Johnny's Ambassadors, parents Opposed to Pot there's so many out there throughout the country, but I think those networks are important for parents to have others to talk to, that are a sense of support. While they may not be able to change what you're going through, if they can be there for you, it's very helpful. So, um, you also mentioned your journey and in your journey, um, I know, but I want our audience to know, how did you come to be aware of Parent Action Network?
Speaker 1:Essentially, once we lost our son and I realized what had happened to him, legalization was pending in Minnesota and I decided to reach out to Sam and see how I could be involved and make my voice heard through that process and through that then we got connected to Pan and got connected to you and were able to be coached on how to speak to media, how to do testimony and really make our voice have more of an impact, to do testimony and really make our voice have more of an impact.
Speaker 3:So you kind of connect with a lot of other like-minded people who have similar, maybe not as devastating of effects but but have had, you know, had, trials and tribulations attached to the marijuana legalization. And PAN has been a wonderful, you know connection resource. I mean, really it's a community that is, is made up of a lot of wonderful people and, at the end of the day, you know connection resource. I mean really it's a community that is, uh, is made up of a lot of wonderful people and, at the end of the day, you know, um, it really is about about bringing people together and sharing stories and trying to once again stop this from happening again and again and again.
Speaker 2:And you know what I remember. So I remember when I first started it was only a few months into me being here, probably May, april, may of 2023. I remember receiving an email from Heather because you guys had hooked up with Sam Minnesota and you had formed your nonprofit, which I'd like to talk about a little bit, and you had reached out telling me about an event you were doing and what kind of documentation or support could Sam possibly offer for you. And that was my first experience with you and I immediately forwarded it because, again, I was very new I was like three months new and I had forwarded it to Luke Niferato, our executive vice president, and said, hey, what should I do with something like this? And he said, oh, reach out to them. And yes, we have Sam Minnesota and that's an arm of smart approaches to marijuana and very active, with a lot of good people and doctors and everything involved. And so that is how we connected and then we met in person. We stayed connected and then we had the pleasure of meeting in person at Johnny's Ambassadors Conference last year and with that we've just continued to work together. You know, we at PAN consider you and at SAM consider you one of our key advocates and families, and we are so pleased that we have been able to help you raise your voice.
Speaker 2:And so I'd like to talk about two things. Number one be extraordinary be you, what you've created. And then, um, a little bit about what we did, what you guys did together with Sam to uh, with and with Congress to form Randy's resolution. We'll talk a little bit about that, but first let's talk a little bit about cause. My next question is what have you what? What have you done that's helped you move forward? And I think part of what you've done is definitely creating. Be Extraordinary, be you. So why don't you tell us a little bit about that?
Speaker 1:Sure. So we, you know, after Randy passed when he passed, right away it was for some reason it was really important for me to let people know what happened to him and that he was struggling with addiction and that he was struggling with mental health issues. What I didn't know was the extent to which the addiction really made his mental health issues worse and exasperated them. And so we learned all this information and really a friend of mine handed me Laura Stack's People article and I read it and I was like, oh my gosh, I cannot even believe the common thread here. And so then I just started digging in and learning. So between reading Laura Stack's things, Dr Love's podcast, reading Lorstack's things, Dr Love's podcast, I would clean the house and listen to that. And you know just, really, because people questioned me on, really, how could marijuana do that, you know. So I had to really listen and convince myself. And then I learned all this information and because we were given so much information and learned what happened to Randy, we really feel incredibly blessed. As much as we've experienced a tragedy, we feel incredibly blessed that we know what happened to him.
Speaker 1:Many people don't get that answer with suicide, but we know. And then we got his phone and we got his computers and we could see his personal journey and we just felt that it was imperative that we share that. So we got his phone and we got his computers and we could see his personal journey and we just felt that it was imperative that we share that. So we got active politically and then we took he had video and it was really him documenting his journey, uh, the last eight months of his life, and Randy has good video skills.
Speaker 1:So he put together, uh, a documentary to kind of send to some of our lawmakers, although it fell upon deaf ears. They received it but they did not really engage with it. We just decided that we needed to spread the message, get the word out to parents, to kids, to teachers, to public health people, doctors, just really anybody that would listen to better understand what is today's marijuana, what is the impact on youth brain development. To prevent further tragedy, I wouldn't wish addiction upon anyone. It's heartbreaking. It destroys families. It destroys marriages.
Speaker 3:It destroys families, it destroys marriages, it destroys people and it's heartbreaking and it can all be prevented and so we feel strongly that become this big entity.
Speaker 3:But it's really to just get out and educate, as Heather said, parents, students, and kind of show them Randy's journey, because it's his journey, him showing them as he's kind of declining and his, his, uh, his psychosis is setting in the, the things that he's doing, and it's nothing, nothing that's harmful.
Speaker 3:It just shows him kind of you know he was a lot like other kids. It shows them kind of what potentially can happen that you use more and more weed and how it does change your brain and how you think. So we started a nonprofit and we get out and speak. We're not on the road 24-7 because we do have full-time jobs, but this is our hobby and this is our passion. So I would say it's our passion but it's something that we enjoy doing and we enjoy getting out and speaking to groups of people because that's the one thing that we feel we can make change with Legislatively we can do as make change with Legislatively we can do as much as what can be done, but really changing it from the youth and the parents and letting them know what these products are and what the results could be.
Speaker 1:We feel that that's impacting a lot of change and the feedback from the kids has been like they'll come up after watching our presentation and they'll say wow, you know, like that means so much more. Watching your son means so much more than all the statistics. Because he is the story behind the statistics and it makes it very real to them.
Speaker 1:He's not just a number. They see a person who declines and then he's gone, and they see the impact that it has on the parents and siblings and I think it just makes it very real for them.
Speaker 2:Yeah, and I have had the privilege of seeing these videos and again, I think it's incredibly brave and astounding that you are strong enough to share these, because it's disturbing and it must bring back so many memories. But what you're doing is incredibly important and so, again, I thank you from the bottom of my heart for what you're doing in Minnesota to raise awareness. You also mentioned legislation, and so I want to talk a little bit about Randy's resolution. So you guys had the opportunity to work with SAM Smart Approaches to Marijuana, to go to the Hill and present a resolution named in Randy's honor, randy's resolution, which was a way for Congress to be able to say that they disapprove of these high potency THC products and that they are opposed to the proliferation of the high potency products. And can you tell us a little bit about what that meeting was like?
Speaker 3:So that was.
Speaker 3:It was pretty cool because we got to meet with Senator Pete Ricketts and Representative Pete Sessions and you know they presented this resolution that hopefully at some point will gain some traction.
Speaker 3:But it's really about studying the effects of today's high potency marijuana products and because, as we talked about earlier, I mean these products have really changed. They are no longer. These are no longer God-made products or natural in any way, shape or form. These are concentrates, these are distillates, these are things that you know are made in a laboratory, and it was pretty cool that we were able to meet with these legislators and kind of talk about our son, talk about, you know, the harm that these products are bringing to their communities that they're representing. So it was really an honor. Like I said, I think right now it's going to take some time for this to probably gain some more traction, but ideally it would be nice if our leaders would look at these products, and especially the high potency products, and really try to kind of pump the brakes on it a little bit, kind of slow it down, because it's everything is going so fast.
Speaker 1:And I would just say it was wonderful to know that they cared and that they saw it as a priority and something that needs to be addressed. That was important to me.
Speaker 2:Yeah, and, as you said, while it might not be coming to the floor in 2024 for so many reasons that I'm sure we're all aware of, it is something that we plan to continue to address here at Smart Approaches to Marijuana and definitely see if it can ultimately be pushed through at some point.
Speaker 3:So very, very important. We've been at SAM and at PAN, so at Smart Approaches to Marijuana and Impair and Action Network. The work you guys are doing is really phenomenal. I mean, I'm sure at times it's hard because you don't know if people are getting the message, but I do believe people are getting the message. The facts, the stats, the reality of these products is coming out and this tobacco 2.0, as we call it, at some point it's going to be unmasked. It's taking some time because it is about the money. It's not about the people, it's not about your freedom. This is about things that are related to the color green. Money, money, money.
Speaker 2:Yep, and you're absolutely right, it will, who knows how long, but it will become unmasked, as you said, and it the smoke screen will be lifted, as Kevin might say. So, um to, to wrap up, is there something you would like to leave other parents and families listening to help them in their journey?
Speaker 1:Well, I think, to seek resources, be it through PAN or through SAM, to be bold enough to stand up and speak out. I understand if you have a loved one that's here that you're trying to heal relationships with and all that. But that's part of the reason we speak out too is we have nothing left to lose. So we're happy to do that for people. But really just to educate yourselves on the products and then to really look at your loved one who may be suffering, realize it's an addiction. It is not the person and you know. Act out of love, try as you might to control the feelings that naturally come up because you're frustrated and you love and care for that person so much and you know they're hurting and you're hurting.
Speaker 3:But just to really focus on the love versus, um, the frustration, I guess I would say you know it's really hard, because having kids and we have four kids um, you know, you try to model behaviors and even if you model behavior, sometimes things kind of go awry. But just letting your kids know that you're there and you want to talk with them they may not want to talk, but if you can have the conversations and not preach to them, but converse with them, hopefully you can make some headway. I just look at it and think once again. As I said earlier, you know, a lot of times moms are a lot more in tune to what's going on with their sons and daughters and as fathers, sometimes we think, oh, you can fix it, everything can always be fixed.
Speaker 3:Well, first of all, as fathers and husbands, heather tells me a problem, I want to try to fix it. I don't want to listen to her problem. I want to feel like this is how you fix the problem. Sometimes we just have to listen. And same thing with our kids is just listen to them and then try to help navigate them through this process, because once your child starts going off the rails, it's a lot harder to get them back on the track. Um, it really is. I mean, it would for a substance that supposedly is benign. It's wreaked a lot of havoc on a lot of people, um, but I would say that just really, you know reaching out and there's a lot of resources, whether it's sam pan, johnny's ambassadors, you've got pot pot, illinois pot pot, you've got all these different groups out there and there are a lot of people that are are going through these these issues.
Speaker 3:You've also got like, every brain matters and you've got maranon so maranon is for people whose loved ones are using marijuana, kind of like an alanine the equivalent to alanine or narcanon yeah, yeah, and there's so many great, great resources.
Speaker 3:Once again, sometimes it's connecting with people, because even if your loved one is off the rails and you can't get them back, you still have the rest of that family that you need to kind of keep cohesive. And in our case, when our son did leave our house, a lot of chaos left our home and it's hard to say that because he's no longer alive, but when he lived three states away, there was a lot more peace and harmony with our daughters in our home, and it's not easy to say that, but it is true, and I wish our story would have ended differently. I wish we would have never had to go down this road. But, being that we're here, we just want people to know that they are not alone and that there are other people that are suffering and going through similar struggles.
Speaker 1:Yeah.
Speaker 2:Well, I think that's a perfect message and a perfect way to end. Thank you so much again, heather and Randy, and again, parent Action Network is focused on training parents and families to tell their stories in an effective way to hopefully instill change among our legislators. But, as Randy said, there are so many other organizations out there to connect, all spreading this message, all providing this education, spreading this message of awareness, and many of those organizations having these recovery type groups for and support groups for parents to at least be there for each other. So so reach out, look for these organizations, reach out to Parent Action Network and Smart Approaches to Marijuana for any of your educational and talking point needs, and also be on the lookout for PAN's future podcast episodes, pan webinars, pan training events, pan's newsletter. Also, make sure you check out Smart Approaches to Marijuana's websites, all of their resources.
Speaker 2:Look for events. We have our February summit coming up again in Washington DC. Parent Action Network will be having their next conference and training day training and conference day and day on the hill hopefully February or March of 2025. We also have the drug report and the drug report podcast and, of course, our other arm, the Foundation for Drug Policy Solutions, that addresses all other substances and policies surrounding those, such as psilocybin, mushrooms and, of course, the opioid crisis and so many others. So please remember that Pan and Sam are here and again. Look out for future episodes of Fortitude, the Parent Action Network podcast and again, heather and Randy, thank you so much for being here and keep on, keep on and keep doing what you're doing, and we look forward to many more opportunities to advocate together.
Speaker 3:Thank you. Thank you Many blessings, thank you Thanks.