Fortitude: Turning Tragedy into Action

How Delta-8 Shattered a Teen's Future

• PAN & SAM

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What happens when a single decision turns a family's life upside down? Get to know Kelly and Travis from Georgia as they recount their once vibrant and hopeful lives before a Delta-8 product changed everything. Their son, filled with excitement for his senior year and the thrill of becoming a new uncle, unknowingly consumed a dangerous substance that left him with severe brain damage. Kelly and Travis share their emotional journey, emphasizing the urgent need for policy changes.

Discover the painful aftermath of Delta-8's devastating impact on their son and their family's daily struggles to adapt to a new normal. Kelly opens up about the ethical and legal challenges that made this harmful product accessible, highlighting an urgent call for action to protect public health. Their story underscores the importance of understanding the dangerous loopholes in current regulations and the dire need for better medical diagnoses and treatments for affected individuals.

Join us as we follow Kelly and Travis through their evolving journey of advocacy and support. From connecting with the Parent Action Network to raising awareness about the unpredictable dangers of unregulated THC products, their story is a powerful reminder of the true cost of misinformation. Hear about upcoming events aimed at addressing broader impacts and gain insights from former Congressman Patrick Kennedy’s new book on mental health courage. Kelly and Travis's bravery and dedication to making a difference offer a beacon of hope amidst their ongoing challenges.

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Speaker 2:

Greetings. I'm Chrissy Groenwegen, director of the Parent Action Network, the grassroots division of Smart Approaches to Marijuana, dedicated to amplifying the voices of families whose lives have been devastated by the harmful effects of marijuana. Thank you for joining me for another episode of Fortitude. I gave this podcast that title because fortitude means showing courage in the face of grief and adversity. I couldn't think of a better word to exemplify the brave parents and families that stand up, despite their pain, to fight big marijuana and the false narrative that marijuana is a safe and harmless product. I hope that each episode leaves you with a profound understanding of the urgent need for awareness, better regulations and the power of community support in addressing the challenges posed by today's marijuana products.

Speaker 2:

Now I'd like to introduce Kelly and Travis T from Georgia. Kelly and Travis are going to share the details of how their journey began, when their teenage son used a Delta-8 product only one time. So, kelly and Travis, thank you so much for joining me, thank you for having me. Thanks, and before you tell your story, can you begin by telling us a little bit about what life was like before this incident even occurred, and then you can let us know a little bit more about where you ended up in your journey.

Speaker 3:

Yeah. So before this life was full of hope, um, we had a pretty adventurous life. We love outdoors. Our son loves every love, still loves everything outdoors, um, hunting, fishing, kayaking. Um, um, sports, basketball was his, was his sport of choice.

Speaker 3:

Um, and we just, you know, had a normal family, very. We were some people call us probably a little bit abnormal, but very open as a family, very, very, extremely close um, and just you, you know, all around we believe in God, we have our Christian faith. Actually, my son loved going to church, our son loved going to church, and so, just, very outgoing and extremely family oriented. Anything that we could do trips, camping, that was like our highlights of what we did as a family, um was, you know, a lot of, a lot of camping, just a lot of spending time together playing games outside, you know, in the winter time, inside. So playing games outside, you know, in the wintertime inside.

Speaker 3:

So just and I think the main thing would be is full of hope for the future. You know what was next and what our kids were going to do and what was their, their goals they were going to reach and their next milestones and watching them reach these things and go through that, of course, is every parent's dream, and so it's just. We're just a fun. You know loving family, and that's what we've always been.

Speaker 2:

Yeah, and how many other children do you have? Because you were, you're a very close, cohesive family.

Speaker 3:

We are. So we have a daughter who is almost almost exactly four years older than our son, and then we also have a nephew that we have had since he's been with us for six years now.

Speaker 2:

And might I add I know it's a little personal, but we share this you just became a grandma yes, yes, we did just become grandparents, um a little over three weeks ago.

Speaker 3:

a little over three weeks ago. So she is, we have a granddaughter now. Yes, we're so exciting Over the moon.

Speaker 2:

Well, congratulations on that. I share your joy, for sure, and so then, I hate to revert back to a not so pleasant subject, but once your loved one, your son, was affected by marijuana, what exactly happened? And actually I'd like to ask you one question first, so, prior to his use, what was your stance as a Christian family and a cohesive, loving family with morals and values? What was your stance on marijuana legalization?

Speaker 3:

Honestly, I could speak for myself on this and then I'll let my husband chime in. I was not against it. I was not aware of what it's like today at the moment, so I wasn't necessarily against it but I wasn't necessarily for it. It was just one of those things where if you smoked, then okay, you smoked as long as you're not driving. You know that was okay with us. I wouldn't say like okay, like we wanted our kids to be doing that. That was something we talked to them about and, you know, not something we wanted them to be doing. It was just, if that is your preference as a person, then that was your preference. You know, I didn't. I didn't see any of the scary factors, I didn't understand what it was like today, so I was very laid back about it would be a good good word for it, Yep.

Speaker 2:

And we should mention that currently in Georgia, medical marijuana is legal since 2015. And currently recreational is still not legal in Georgia. Correct and that's what we're continuing to fight against together. So now please share a little bit of your story about what happened with your son, and if you could share how old he was and you know how this all came about this all came about.

Speaker 3:

Yeah, so he was 18, not even a month into being 18 years old, was very much celebrating going into his senior year of high school. They had been out of school because of COVID, so they were learning online for a junior year and he was excited, looking forward, wanting to go back to his senior year, and he went out to a truck meet. He was very much into trucks, building speakers, car working on cars, cars anything to do with vehicles. Um, he was not a partier at all. He never, like, would go to parties when he was invited. He wasn't a big drinker, he never used drugs and the truck meet that he went to was regulated, um, and they got permission to be at. So they would go to these truck meets throughout the seasons and, like, just show off and sometimes even get trophies about who had the best sounding truck, you know things like that. So he's very into that and he I'll. I'll try to make it. It's a pretty long story, so I'll try to condense it.

Speaker 3:

He went to the truck meet and was introduced to Delta 8 by a friend who had bought it at a store and a gas station and he decided, for whatever reason, to try it. He thought, ok, this is just. You know marijuana. You know who hasn't. You know, a lot of people have experienced marijuana and my husband and I told him before when we were in high school yes, we tried it. You know, um, when we would bring things up in our household about drugs and, um, we did not ever tell him that we wanted him to do it or anything like that. But for whatever reason, he decided to try it that night. He took three hits off of it. He had his best friend riding with him that night and it was about to be curfew and he left probably five minutes after hitting it and after vaping it, um, and, and when he left he did not feel right. He pulled over on the side of the road because he was, to my understanding, losing consciousness and his best friend called myself and my son actually was his own hero and called 911 and said that something was wrong. He did not feel right and he needed help. So when his friend called us, we met them on the scene and when we got there we were told by the paramedics that he was in a life-threatening situation, that we needed to get into the back of the ambulance. He was going he was at stroke level, going into a stroke and that, excuse me, he was also trying to go into cardiac arrest that we needed to get in to the ambulance, tell him to hang on and tell him that we love him. And they needed to go lights and sirens.

Speaker 3:

At this point we had no idea what Delta-8 was. They told us you know he had hit Delta-8 from what his friend had told him, that he had vaped it and that they had seen this a lot. It was very scary and they absolutely needed to take him right then. Of course, you know, like I said, we were in shock. We were telling him to hang on, that we loved him. He was aware of I say aware, he was awake, but he was hallucinating. His blood pressure was absolutely skyrocketed, his heart rate was at almost 200 beats a minute and so, as we were going to meet the ambulance there, because he had just turned 18, we couldn't ride with him in the ambulance because he had literally just turned 18. They proceeded to get our cell phone number because they said they needed that, because they did not think he was going to make it to the hospital. And if we got the phone call on the way to the hospital, then obviously it wasn't good, but they were going to do everything they could. So we beat the ambulance to the hospital somehow.

Speaker 3:

Then, when they they were taking him out at the bay and I still don't know, I'm not 100 certain at this point if they had to um, use the um, the pads on him to to shock his heart. I'm assuming they did, because when they pulled him out the pads were across his chest and the paramedic came to us and said he is still with us. They got to take him in, they got to get him stable. But he said, before you decide on a punishment or even consider anything like that, he's going to need a lot of support. He said because and these were his words here I'll put it in better terms but he went through a heck of a lot in that ambulance and we did everything that we could to keep him alive, took every measure to keep him alive, and we got him here and it's, it's. He's going to need a lot of support because some of it he's going to remember, some of it he's not, and a lot of it was scary and so, um, then we were at the hospital. Only one of us could go in at a time with him because of COVID.

Speaker 3:

Um, we were there for several hours until the next morning, I would say probably three in the morning. The only thing in his system when he was tested and we were able to go back there with him I was with him when he was tested was a very high level of THC. No other drug in his system at all. And I think that is a very important thing to mention, because so many times people say well, there must've been something else in the vape, there must've been something else in the joint, or there must've been something else in this and there wasn't. And? Um. So after several hours he finally became stable. Um, enough to where the doctors at that time because they were so uneducated about Delta-8 and what it can do to the developing brain they, once his heart became stable, once his blood pressure, all his vitals became stable, they basically just said he's got to go home and sleep it off. They didn't even do an MRI, which should have been done, because he was coming in as a possible stroke victim During this time at the hospital, for hours, the entire time.

Speaker 3:

He was not my son, he was a totally different kid. He was he was. He's always been very mild mannered. He was cussing, he was yelling, he was crying, he was shaking, he was hallucinating, laughing, he was going from one extreme to the next. When he was released to us, of course, you know, we didn't know anything about Delta, we didn't know enough to ask questions that we should have asked, and so when he was released to us and on the ride home, he was still going through this and I was very much, you know, like, should we turn back around? Do we take him back? But we knew that they would just reject him because his vitals were okay and what they sent us home with on his discharge papers were just, you know, um, about smoking marijuana. If you smoke marijuana and, um, you would like to have help on quitting marijuana, seek therapy, basically. And so we brought him home and got him in our bed and, um, put him in our bed because he was, like I said, it was horrifying. And that is from that time on, and that was in 2021. And we are now in 2024 and from that day on he has not.

Speaker 3:

He tried once or twice to leave our house, but was unsuccessful. His brain, absolutely, his thought processing absolutely changed. He became very fearful of life of he thought he was going to die with everything that he did If he got up to take a shower, if he went to the bathroom, if he got up out of his bed. He has severe agoraphobia now, along with white coat syndrome, which is a fear of doctors. He has a fear of any medication syndromes, which is a fear of doctors. He has a fear of any medication. He can't even take a Tylenol or an Advil because he thinks something's going to be in it. It would probably take a couple hours to explain all the fears that this has caused him, but the biggest to explain all the fears that this has caused him. But the biggest downfall of this is the fact that it absolutely changed him in a matter of minutes. Our entire life changed.

Speaker 3:

Because of the agoraphobia that it caused, he is unable to leave the house and has not left the house or home in three years. He was put on emergency medical leave from school to be able to finish out his senior year, which of course, we were all looking forward to. He had to do it online when he could. He had to, you know, and I would have to sit up with him and try to get him through that. He did make it through. He did get his diploma. However, he was unable to obviously go to his graduation, so he watched it live on TV and we celebrated the best that we could at home.

Speaker 3:

This has taken away so many milestones in our family. We have had to learn how to have joy at home because our life looks and is so different. His life is so different. We cannot do you know, we can't even go to get an ice cream with him Things that people take for granted. And it was all because of this one-time use three hits, one-time use of this product that absolutely wrecked havoc on his brain completely. Wow. And just to go into the, I guess the sadness of it is absolutely. This has just been absolutely devastating to a degree I can't even explain, and we are very blessed because I did when we were in the hospital that night.

Speaker 3:

You know, it was like seeing tunnel vision. All I wanted to do was get to him and I prayed to God and I said, god, just keep him here, because we weren't allowed to go back there with him until he was stable. They were still working on him and I said, god, just keep him, I will take him in any form, shape, physical way, that you leave him on this earth. Just please leave him here with us. And we were granted that, you know. But at the same time, we are still grieving the son we had before, the life we had before we've we've had to learn a new way of living. He's had to learn a new way of living and it's a day to day struggle. It is a day to day of you know what's going to be triggering for him, what you know how are we going to get through this moment and the next? And, um, so that's where we are right now.

Speaker 2:

And thank you for sharing that, kelly, and for our listeners who don't know or understand what Delta-8 is. Kelly mentioned some effects and vomiting, tremor, anxiety, dizziness, confusion and loss of consciousness and it is a hemp-derived intoxicant, which means that it inadvertently was legalized when hemp became legal under the 2018 Farm Bill. So Delta-8 is an intoxicating derivative and a little bit of a different isomer than Delta-9, which is what is in THC that we normally think of, right? So all of these hemp-derived analogs were basically created and they are not extracted from the plant. They are created in a lab and unfortunately, as I said, these hemp-derived products fell through a legal loophole making them technically legal, so an underage person can legally buy Delta-8 laced candy at gas stations and convenience stores, and not very many.

Speaker 2:

More and more states are doing it, but not very many have banned hemp intoxicants as of yet, and you know this is something to be very leery of In 2021, which, as Kelly mentioned, this began during the pandemic. For them, it's been almost three years for her family that they're going through this, but in 2021 alone, national Poison Control Data System received 660 reports of adverse reactions to people exposed to Delta-8. So this is happening more than we realize more than the public knows and more than those who want to legalize this product care to discuss fact that here in Georgia you have to be 21 years old to purchase these products.

Speaker 3:

Well, what is going on in the vape shops and the gas stations is that they know that these kids are underage and so they upcharge them and pocket the rest of the money, which is absolutely sickening, is absolutely sickening. So like they'll go in to buy a vape, say it's $30. They will charge them probably like 60 and pocket, you know, the rest for themselves. So they're making that extra profit and they just they don't. There's no care or concern there, it's so easy for them to get it or a concern it's so easy for them to get in as we always discuss.

Speaker 2:

it's an addiction for profit industry and, besides, in the convenience stores, online mail order, underage people can get a hold of these products and do get a hold of these products every single day.

Speaker 3:

Yes, they do, yes, they do, yes, they do, and these products can and will absolutely take lives, and our son is proof of that. I mean, you know, thank God he's here today, but he literally almost lost his life from THC. I mean that's just absolutely unreal, and but it's. It's what we are facing now, that's what's here.

Speaker 2:

Yep and and it continues to be a growing problem and by raising parents' voices, we are making a difference Every. Every time we do a presentation or every time we speak up about this, it does penetrate even one person and we are beginning to see positive policies emerging. And you know legislators changing their minds about this and considering banning the hemp-derived products, and you know all types of laws trying to be enacted, and that is something that Sam works on every single day. That's Smart Approaches to Marijuana, our parent company, of course. Kelly, you alluded to in your story the journey regarding doctors and diagnoses and nobody recognizing that this was just from marijuana. So have you received what you would consider beneficial help, treatment of any kind from any medical professional?

Speaker 3:

any medical professional. So what has happened in his case? I did. We reached out to his pediatrician right away and he was like, well, you've got to bring him in. Well, obviously we couldn't get him to leave the house.

Speaker 3:

So at that point I reached out to psychiatrists and psychologists the doctors that saw him during that time that diagnosed him. They said that he was because of this. They did recognize the psychiatrist that this was becoming an issue. It was becoming a bigger issue and he was not their first patient that they had worked with. And so there were several diagnoses diagnosis I'm sorry that he received during this time, but it's been a matter of also going through this process to rule out or rule in different things. So he has been diagnosed with a possible dissociative disorder. Definitely. They did do a two-hour test with him, virtually. That tested um like his brain functions, his cognitive thinking and um. They said there was definitely some brain damage, there's some short-term memory um loss there, but because he doesn't have that mri, they can't tell. You know exactly where it is was that he could possibly be bipolar, he could be possibly schizophrenic, but that all of this was due to the trauma that his brain endured from the chemicals that were in the Delta-8.

Speaker 2:

Thank you for sharing that. So, along this journey, how, besides professional medical treatment of any kind, how did you become familiar with agencies like Parent Action Network and any of the others that you have come to work with?

Speaker 3:

So what actually was a pretty wild story. I was at home one night and my mom called me and she said turn on the news. And I was like what? And she said turn on the news. And there was another Georgia family on there that was going through the same thing. Their son was very much in cannabis-induced psychosis and I forget which news channel they were on psychosis, and I forget which news channel they were on. And I reached out.

Speaker 3:

I ended up reaching out to that family because they're like a county or two over. I ended up finding them and the mother spoke to me and she had mentioned different groups to go and listen to. And so I was checking out the other groups and while I was on there, one had posted. It was like a radio interview with the radio station or something. And I heard you talking, chrissy, and I heard you talking about the degrees that you had gotten, and I heard you talking about PAN. And so I listened to the whole um interview with you and once I listened to that, I turned around and looked up pan and then reached out to you guys that's how I found it and he wasn't even aware.

Speaker 2:

My husband wasn't even aware until after I told him and after husband wasn't even aware until after I told him and after, because I immediately reached out that that moment and I actually remember that because I remember it was on Facebook and there was a thread going and I don't often go on Facebook a lot, I leave that to my project coordinator and, um, I happened to catch that and I immediately emailed my project coordinator and was like we need to get in touch with this woman and respond immediately. And we've been working with you ever since. If Travis doesn't mind, I have a question for Travis because I know you listened to our first episode with Heather and Randy Kelly with the Bacchuses and if any of our other listeners had listened to the first podcast as well. Heather and Randy are very active in advocacy right now, but it didn't start out that way.

Speaker 2:

For Randy, you know he happened to make a good point about fathers. Right, it's usually the mom who takes a stand, who recognizes it, who, who, even if they don't recognize it, know that something is not right with their child because it's a mother's instinct in all reality, right, and and the fathers are kind of like, ah, it's no big deal. I mean, I experienced that. My I have three children and my son is my oldest and you know, back in the day he was a little bit of a thorn in our side and I used to be like this is not okay. And you know, the husband is always like oh, he's a growing boy, he's just a boy, he'll be fine, don't worry about it. And then all of a sudden it hits you and I just love that. Randy was brave enough to make that point that fathers sometimes have to step up as well and approach this a different way. So how has that been for you, travis?

Speaker 1:

Well, it's funny that you're asking that, because that's what I was getting ready to try to chime in about. Was, you know, when this first started happening? Um, our education level on this whole thing was zero. Um, you know, again, as a dad, I was like he'll, he'll be fine. You know, he's going to be ready to go tomorrow, um, couple of days from now. Well, that couple of days has turned into three years, you know. So we have and again, kelly has probably done it more. Maybe time is a little bit more on her side in order to be able to educate her, but she educates me a lot with this stuff.

Speaker 1:

But through these groups and us chatting and things like that, that's where we've kind of gotten ourselves more educated on all of this, because one of our first thoughts was, you know, the, going back to when he was at the hospital and they released him from the hospital. We were just ready to take him home. You know, we were just like perfect, you know, we get him home. He's alive, he's breathing, he's fine, let's get him home. Everything will be back to normal shortly and, um, you know. So we feel like the even the hospitals at that time um weren't as educated as they need to be and hopefully there's becoming more education for them in this um category, um, so that you know they're not sending another kid home without doing all these um, the MRIs and and doing all these checks that, looking back on it, we wish we would have known, because we would have never let him leave. Because, again, he has, since he's gotten home and for the three years that he's not left, I mean he's not been able to. We've knock on wood, he's been very healthy otherwise.

Speaker 1:

So it's just been a. It's a struggle from a dad standpoint because you, I mean you just know that there's the capabilities and he has the want, has the want um, but just something going on inside his brain right now is not allowing him to step out on that ledge and and take some of the um chances or or the the really just getting out there and kind of seeing the world. It feels like he's missing so much and I mean we definitely have had to change the way that we do things, when we do things. So it's it's just changed our whole family dynamic. You know he's he's like Kelly said. He has missed a few pretty big milestones, starting with his graduation, his sister getting married, his sister buying a house, his sister having a baby. I mean mean, these are big things that you know. We've had to make adjustments to be able to kind of involve him, to keep him you know his spirits up as best we can, and it's a struggle every day for him and for us.

Speaker 3:

We've had to become extremely creative in involving him, like, for instance, for our daughter's wedding. Our son carries a lot of guilt. That is one of the things that he holds so tightly to, and, even though we never even punished him for this, we just wanted to love him and love him through this. He is so guilty because he feels so guilty because of where we're at, where he's at, and so for his sister's wedding, what ended up happening is he, he. We had some friends come and stay with him while we were there, um, so that he would be able to make it through and try to be okay and be as calm as he could be without being so anxiety ridden, even though he was. Um, we definitely weren't going to leave him alone, but this is just an example of the many things that we have been through. But, um, he wasn't even going to FaceTime to watch the ceremony and that was really devastating. It was already devastating that he couldn't be a part of it and he couldn't be there because his sister and him are so close, um, but he couldn't. He wasn't going to be able to FaceTime because it was too heavy on his shoulders, it was too heavy on his heart and he couldn't handle it. We're right before the wedding started.

Speaker 3:

Um, my best friend came in and she said I have price on the phone. I've talked to him. Best friend came in and she said I have Price on the phone. I've talked to him, we've prayed through it and he's going to watch the wedding on FaceTime. And you know I'm coming apart and I'm trying to hold it together and I'm shaking. So he FaceTimed and watched the wedding and was able to see it. So he was present and not present. And actually when we went to the reception, a lot of our friends and family knew of our situation and she was up on our. My friend was up on a balcony and I could see that she was scanning the room with the phone. And right when dinner was about to start, I looked up and I said pretty loudly. I said hey, price, I love you. I said hey, price, I love you, and the whole entire room said hello to him. Everybody started waving and said hello and those are moments that get us through, but they're also moments that make this such a reality.

Speaker 1:

I wanted to say something about Kelly just mentioned it. As far as when the paramedics said something about punishing him for this and we have never really been that kind of parents anyway so that was not even really a thought like we're going to punish him, um, that just really never crossed our mind and actually I felt like when, when he first came home, um, that that was part of his thought process is what are they going to do to me? Are they going to tell me I can't go to the truck meets, or that I can't drive my truck, or this, that and the other? And I remember very vividly sitting there, him on the couch with one of his friends that was here at the time and telling him you know, we're not mad at him, we weren't upset, we weren't thinking about any kind of punishment. Like sometimes you got to live and learn, right? I mean, you're okay, you're still alive, we don't need to do that again, right? That was our whole thought process. Is there's going to probably be other opportunities or this put in your face in some shape or form, or even something else, um, throughout the rest of your life? It's just the decision you make.

Speaker 1:

Like, think about it the next time, you know, and um, but I just that just kind of goes with uh kind of where we were at, there was not really ever a thought process of punishment, you know, um, cause I could probably speak for a lot of people that may hear this, but a lot of people have probably dabbled in some form of something and have walked away and nothing has ever happened to them, or they're not doing it anymore and they may even be doing it every day, and it's not necessarily doing what it's done to our son, to them, but they're living on a sharp edge, right, I mean, it's, it's a matter of time, more than likely, for them, um, and it's, you know, for him to have done it one time, that is, it's just absolutely insane. It's just absolutely insane. The things that me personally, I've dealt with or done and probably done multiple times, and I'm okay, you know, I function just perfectly fine but for him to do it one time, it's not fair, it really sucks. I mean, it just is heartbreaking. Yeah, it's heartbreaking is what it is. You know he's.

Speaker 1:

That's part of why I thought he's gonna get back into his normal routine after a couple of weeks. He was 18 years old. Like what 18 year old wants to be stuck at the house? Like what 18 year old wants to be stuck at the house, you know, can't drive down the road, can't go to the river, can't go fish. He's gonna go back out and do those things and when we started, you know, going into months and then into years and all this kind of stuff and we're like this is is unreal that he is now 21 years old and has seen nothing more than our cul-de-sac.

Speaker 3:

I mean it literally feels like going off what he said, like we're living in a dream. I mean, so many times it's like I have to be like is this real, is this really real, and that's what's so important. I have to be like is this real, is this really real, and that's what's so important, and that's the biggest message I want to put out there. People think, oh, it's just, it's not going to happen to me, and blah, blah, blah. All it takes is that one time. All it takes, and you may smoke it every single day.

Speaker 3:

You may use this marijuana, synthetic marijuana, however, people want to word this every single day, but it only takes that one time where you because each vape, each thing, will have a different amount of THC and all it takes is that one time, and all it takes is that one time. And it's like my husband said, you are absolutely who. For the people out there who are listening and think this is okay, playing with fire and playing with, you know, life and death is like playing Russian roulette. It's like playing Russian roulette.

Speaker 2:

It's unbelievable. And, you know, never in a million years did we think if our son tried marijuana, this would happen. Right, and you've made a couple of really good points. Well, first of all, I mean, he should not be punishing himself, because we don't punish people for having cancer or diabetes or any other illness, and this is what that has become, you know, and and it's it's amazing, I think you should stress the message to him that, yeah, we were not going to punish you because you, number one, you beat yourself up enough, and even that you shouldn't be doing because this was not his fault. And this has a lot to do with the whole messaging out there and the marketing tactics being used in this industry that are telling us oh, it's just pot, it's not harmful. And and even, as as you said in the beginning, the fact that, yeah, whatever we did in the seventies, eighties, even nineties, this is not that right and it doesn't make it right or wrong, like we're not saying that, you know, but this product is not that.

Speaker 2:

And like and it doesn't make it right or wrong, like we're not saying that, you know, but this product is not that. And, like you said, each is different from the other, and that's because, as we know, there's no regulation on this. That's actually working. This was not a well thought out plan at all, and my next question was going to be what message would you like to leave these parents with? So you kind of did that, but I'd like to mention one more thing. As opposed to asking you what has helped you move forward, I know that doing advocacy and educating others and telling your story is what has helped you move forward. And, again, like each of these families that do this, you are all so brave and it's really inspiring and I look up to you and honor you and, of course, you know this is my passion and it is my greatest passion to give you this voice, and that is why I want to mention some of the things that you've actually done. So, as we mentioned, you're in Georgia and uh Pan was able to connect uh Kelly and Travis with a Georgia coalition called Georgia Georgians for Responsible Marijuana Policy and just the just last week, kelly actually presented on a webinar about Delta-8 with Dr Raduka, who gave an overview of the issues with Delta-8 products, and Kelly told her story there.

Speaker 2:

And then Kelly and Travis also met with a production team that may or may not be doing a documentary Sometimes these things happen, sometimes they don't but they went out of their way to meet and talk with this documentary film crew, and Kelly just continues to step up for Pan. Every time I ask her for anything a video for a project, a signing on to an op-ed or a direct advocacy campaign Kelly is there for us, so I thank you for that, kelly.

Speaker 3:

Absolutely. I thank you for all that you've done. Your work is absolutely incredible and so very important and I appreciate you for giving us a voice, even though when the voice is cracking and it's hard to share, you know it's not's not going to cure my, our son, but it's going to help somebody out there and that's you know I'm not going to allow his journey to. When I set out to do this and I made decision to do this this year, um, along, you know, with talking with my family and my husband, it was because I refuse to allow what we are going through to be for nothing. I absolutely refuse to allow what he is going through to be for nothing, and if it's to change one person's mind, to bring awareness, then that's what we'll do to save another family.

Speaker 2:

Yep. Well again, kelly and Travis, I thank you both for joining us and sharing your story. As you said, the more we bring awareness to this issue, the harder it will be for our lawmakers to ignore the facts and finally put public health and wellness before profits. The facts, and finally put public health and wellness before profits. Before we sign off, I just want to mention a couple of other things going on with PAN and Smart Approaches to Marijuana. We have a couple of upcoming events.

Speaker 2:

Pan will be hosting their next webinar tomorrow night. It's called the Link Between Marijuana Use and Opioid and Other Drug Use and it will feature Dr Eric Voth, who will be discussing the myths around marijuana as a viable pain management alternative, and this is a free webinar. All of PAN's webinars are free. And on September 12th, sam will be hosting a free webinar and that's featuring Patrick Kennedy as he launches and you know he's our the co-founder of Smart Approaches to Marijuana former Congressman Patrick Kennedy, and he will be launching his most recent book, profiles in Courage and really Profiles in Mental Health Courage, and it tells personal stories of mental health struggles.

Speaker 2:

And please tune into future episodes of the Fortitude podcast and if you want to know more about marijuana and other drug policy issues. Sign up to receive the drug report or tune into the drug report podcast hosted by our very own EVP, luke Neferatos. And lastly, if you're interested in telling your story on the fortitude podcast, please reach out to us at pan at learn about samorg. And again, thank you, kelly and travis, for sharing your story, for your bravery and for your vigilance in telling this story absolutely.

Speaker 2:

Thank you, yes, ma'am and keep fighting the good fight and remember. Together we can make a difference.

Speaker 3:

Thank you.

Speaker 2:

Absolutely.