Fortitude: Turning Tragedy into Action
A podcast by the Parent Action Network (PAN), a division of Smart Approaches to Marijuana (SAM), dedicated to amplifying the voices of parents whose lives have been devastated by the harmful effects of marijuana. Each episode features personal interviews with parents sharing their heart-wrenching stories of loss, addiction, and the impact on their families. Through these powerful narratives, PAN aims to educate, inspire, and mobilize listeners to take action against the widespread dangers of marijuana use.
Fortitude: Turning Tragedy into Action
From Heartbreak to Hope: Cindy's Mission to Combat Teenage Marijuana Addiction
Cindy Gresham bravely opens up about the unimaginable loss of her daughter, Haley, shedding light on the hidden dangers of marijuana vaping and its impact on youth mental health. As she recounts Haley's journey from a vibrant teenager to someone struggling with substance use, Cindy's story becomes a platform for advocacy and change. Through the foundation she established, Haley's Helpers, Cindy is determined to prevent other families from facing similar heartbreak by promoting awareness and education about the risks associated with high-potency THC products.
Follow PAN and SAM:
PAN:
https://parentaction.network/
https://x.com/parentactionSAM
https://www.facebook.com/parentactionnetworkSAM
SAM:
https://learnaboutsam.org/
https://x.com/learnaboutsam
https://www.facebook.com/learnaboutsam
I'm the director of the parent action network and we're back for another episode of fortitude.
Speaker 2:I've given the name fortitude to this podcast because I just couldn't think of a better title for this podcast, because fortitude means showing courage in the face of grief and adversity, and for me, that exemplifies the very brave parents and the families that stand up despite their pain to fight the false narrative that marijuana is a safe and harmless product.
Speaker 2:I hope that each of these episodes leaves you with a profound understanding of the urgent need for awareness, better regulations and the power of community support in addressing the challenges posed by today's marijuana products. Cindy comes to us with a really sad story about her beautiful daughter, haley, who was lost to suicide on September 7th 2022. And Cindy is another mom who has taken her pain and turned it into power by sharing her story and her love for Haley by creating a foundation Haley's Helpers. I'm going to turn it over to Cindy so she can tell you a little bit about how she came to PAN. So thank you so much for being with us tonight, cindy. I'd like to start, if you don't mind, if you would just tell us a little bit about what your life was like before marijuana came into Haley's life and a little bit about what your stance on marijuana was.
Speaker 1:Sure, and thank you, chrissy, thank you for having me. I appreciate that Haley is our only daughter. So we were a very close-knit family, my husband myself and Haley. We were a very close-knit family, my husband myself and Haley and Haley, prior to starting to vape, was a very just, happy, loving, very kind of, very much by the rules, and Haley just had this beautiful light that I think everybody was sort of drawn to. She always helped everyone with their problems. She always left people in a better place than she found them and she would sacrifice herself so that she could make people feel better and she never wanted to hurt anyone. So when she started vaping, I think that kind of changed.
Speaker 1:So we had just a normal Haley had asthma. We had a lot of discussions age appropriate growing up, about drugs, about alcohol, about suicide, all of it, especially with her severe asthma. We talked about, you know, that she couldn't smoke or, you know, vape or do any things, any of those kinds of things. So it wasn't something that we expected or suspected that Haley would ever try or ever do, because it was so not like her. So, um, you know, we just kind of had this, this very normal life. We, um, you know. We just didn't, we didn't see coming what, what at us. Uh, it just really came out of the blue with the vaping of marijuana. So, um, basically, kind of to get into a little bit what happened, um, it was probably about five or six weeks, um prior to Haley passing that we did find out she was vaping and she got in trouble for something.
Speaker 1:Haley never got in trouble. I mean, honestly, the only time I ever remember her getting in trouble was when she was five and we were playing Candyland and in our house you won candy when you played Candyland and I realized since she was like the only child and the very youngest granddaughter, like by 20 some years, like she didn't really know that you lost it because everybody would let her win, or even if you won, you would give up the candy. So as she was going into kindergarten, we thought, like she's got to learn how to lose. So we're playing Candyland. I accidentally won Candyland and I kept the candy and she was so angry she leaned over and she bit my leg so hard I think I had a bruise of every tooth on my leg. So that was really the only time I can think of Haley doing anything wrong.
Speaker 1:She just she was just such an easy good kid and, like, even when she was young, if you could explain to her something, why, like you could give her the logic and the why of not to do it, she wouldn't do it. I mean, she would just follow the rules. So she had gotten in trouble. So she was 15. She had gotten in trouble for something. She was with some friends and their mom called us and she had gotten in trouble for something. It wasn't the worst thing in the world, but it was something that I just never pictured my daughter doing, and so it kind of was an eye opener. Like, wait a minute. Like you know, I didn't expect her to do that. So what else is it, you know, was she telling us about? Or what else is she doing that we don't know about? So we had to go pick her up because she was at her friend's house when this happened. And even though I like to think that, you know, I was going to be smarter than my parents were and I was going to be smarter than my parents were and I was going to be ahead of everything and I thought like I'm going to be smarter than she is, it's like I think as parents, like we're not we like to think that we are, but we're not. So in that period of time she was able to go into her phone and she was. She unfriended everybody in Snapchat so that I couldn't, so that if we checked her phone we couldn't see the conversations. But she was smart enough to leave a few conversations so we wouldn't know that she had done that and I had never went through her phone, I had never went through her backpack or her room because we never had a reason to.
Speaker 1:Haley was so honest. She and I were so very close. I mean, we had I always kind of likened it to the Gilmer girls. We just had this really amazing relationship and we talked about everything and her friends always were so envious of, like, the relationship she had with her mom because they didn't have something like that, and so Haley would kind of tell me all about, like you know, her day, her friends. I know so much about her friends. Her friends are kind of surprised, I know about them, because they didn't realize like Haley shared a lot of that stuff with us.
Speaker 1:So I guess I thought that I knew everything going on in my daughter's life because of how close we were and she did tell me everything going on in her life, except the things she didn't want me to know. And so, because of all of that, because I thought like I knew everything going on, I just never snooped, I never doubted her, I never anyed her, I never any of those things. And so after she got in trouble, I took her phone and went through it. I didn't find very much because, as I told you, she unfriended. But there was one conversation where I did pick up on somebody saying they owed Haley a breeze in a cart. And now I had no idea what any of those terms meant. So I had to Google it and I found out they were terms for vaping nicotine and vaping marijuana.
Speaker 1:And so this is the same night she got in trouble and I came down and I asked her are you vaping? I said are you vaping marijuana and nicotine? And she said she came clean right away. She said yes, I am. And I said I just couldn't. I could not believe it. I could not believe it because she had asthma. So in my mind I was thinking like that's why we've been going to the emergency room for the last six months, that's why she couldn't breathe. That's why, like it was all we all, we thought it was her allergies and they were trying to change her medicine Because your allergies tended her allergies at least tended to. As she got older they were getting worse and more things she was allergic to. So it was all starting to kind of click together what was going on. But she was very, very honest about it. She told me that she had been vaping nicotine for almost two years and she had been vaping marijuana for about a year and, of course, like we just got hit with a lot that night.
Speaker 1:That night I was very upset and very angry, but the next day I calmed down and I just, I guess I kind of wanted to. You know, I went into like mom mode. All right, here's the problem. I'm a problem solver, I come up with a game plan and then to try to fix it or you know, whenever something's wrong. So I sat down and said, like I just want to understand, like why would you do that with asthma and all of that? And she explained to me that she has a lot of anxiety and I think this generation you know this generation that's going on right now deals anxiety, is a big part of what they deal with every day. She had.
Speaker 1:We knew she had some anxiety like growing up. It was more like test taking. She would get nervous taking tests and worrying that she was going to be the last one. So we would work with the teachers and stuff to. I talked to the teachers and they would let her, like, go in a different room and take the test, so she didn't have to worry about that and so we've dealt with a little bit anxiety. But she just had, like your general anxiety. First of all, you know she was, they were expected to start driving and a lot of kids you know a lot of kids in this generation are not ready to take on that responsibility. So she was telling me, like you know it was, that it was like they're starting to push the colleges and everything for the college, you know, they're talking about graduating and just so all of these things are big in today's use. Like it gives them anxiety.
Speaker 1:And now that I'm working, now that I work more and more with with teens and stuff, I've realized, like, how much anxiety they deal with. So she told me that someone told her that it would help with the anxiety. She told me that she opted to try marijuana because my husband's side of the family there's been some history with drinking issues and that kind of thing. So she told me that you know she picked something. She was always very scared that if she ever had a drink she would that was going to happen to her. So she picked something non addictive. That's what she thought she was picking was something non addictive. And so she said, and she thought that it did help her anxiety and that is kind of why she started.
Speaker 1:And I wish you know this is the part that I wish I had the knowledge that I have now, because this was a pivotal point for me, because I was thinking, okay, how I help my daughter is she's doing this because she has anxiety. So in my mind I was more worried about her anxiety and how high it was and I and like I said to her, like do you think like you, maybe you know you could get on medication? She's like, well, I don't think I need medication. So I don't think she realized how high her anxiety was, because I think they all deal with anxiety, so they don't realize they're in high anxiety because anxiety is such a part of their life. But for me I was thinking like I was really concerned about the anxiety and so that was what I was focused on In my mind we get her help, we get things to get the anxiety under control and she doesn't need the marijuana. That's what I was thinking. So that's what I did.
Speaker 1:Like the next week I had her into a really amazing counselor Because she had gotten in trouble. I grounded her. I had never grounded her before, ever trouble. I grounded her. I had never grounded her before ever. So I grounded her. I think there was about four weeks or something before the school year started this was in the summer and but more I kind of grounded her to kind of get her away from the friend group.
Speaker 1:So the other part of the anxiety that she filled me in on in a lot of the anxiety and I think it goes along with being this age and especially with girls is all of the drama that goes on the friend group. So Haley was very well liked. She had a very. Her immediate friend group was a pretty large friend group. You know I think there was about eight of them and that was in the immediate. Then they had an extended group that were just kind of outside of that circle. So she had, you know, she had a pretty extensive friend group and you know, of course there was boys and then people fighting over the way, just all of it, and Haley saw herself as sort of the glue that kept everybody together. So all this drama is going on in the friend group, which I knew because we talk about it all the time, like she would wake me up, mom, like this going on right now, like so I knew all the drama in the friend group.
Speaker 1:We would talk it through, how she should handle it, how she should help. You know how sometimes she needs to stay out of it. Um, I mean, this is, you know, we had always done this like throughout her life, talking about all of these situations. But she had that responsibility of keeping the front group together and they were all fighting and it was really upsetting her and she was, you know, she was just basically using, draining all her energy just trying to keep this front group together. So that was another piece of this that I felt like she needed to work on with the counselor, because Haley was very empathic and I know that that word gets used differently nowadays, but basically like an empath they've done studies on it and their brain kind of lights up and when something's going on with somebody else, it lights up in the same place that it's going on with you. And that's kind of what happened with her. She would live people's problems, and so we got her into the counselor and we were trying to work on all those issues and when I grounded her, it like sort of pulled her out of all of that drama. It pulled her away from the vaping. It just got her out of all of that and, oddly, probably a baby a week into being grounded.
Speaker 1:We started seeing the old Haley come back, the one that we didn't realize we lost, because Haley changed and she was different. Nothing bad, but she was different. But I just kept thinking, well, she's a teen, she's growing up, she's changing, she's all about her friends and you know that sort of thing. And she started dressing differently, not like anything, she just kind of started dressing in a baggier style. She started wearing her makeup a little bit differently, like nothing was a red flag.
Speaker 1:It was all things that I was thinking back like, okay, you know, I did all of these things when I was her age, but I did notice she was changing and it kind of bothered me because I did feel like I was losing my Haley somewhere in there, but it was so subtle I couldn't really figure it out. I do remember that I asked some of my friends that are, you know, you know, kids, maybe a little bit older or the same age, and they're like oh yeah, that's teenager, you know, yep, that's them growing up and that's what they do. So I kind of felt like, okay, this is all you know, it's all just them growing up.
Speaker 1:But I did notice like, um, she started getting really lazy, was one of them and she, she was lazy and we'd ask her to do something and she wouldn't of them. And she, she was lazy and we'd ask her to do something and she wouldn't do it. And that wasn't Haley, because Haley was a pleaser, so she would a lot of times do things for you to help you before you asked. And then she very much cared, like what we thought especially me, because we were so close, and I just started watching her not care and I kept thinking like again I would ask them like, oh yeah, that's a team they start, you know, like they're all about their friends and they want to do their chores. And so again I kept thinking, all right, this is all normal. And I kept thinking back to when I was that age and I was like I remember doing all of these things. So there were some signs and we just didn't know at the time and so we just thought it was like a process of growing up. But when she was grounded, she didn't have access to marijuana, so we started watching the old Haley start resurrecting. She always did art before and she quit doing it Well, she would do it, but not like she used to and she started creating again. She started reading again. She got to where she ate all junk food and that wasn't Haley before either, because I taught her to eat healthy and when she was little she was packing lunches and reading labels and making sure she didn't have too much sugar and you know all of these things and she only got like one small tree, like sugary tree today, and she just started, like you know, she was eating so much junk food and, matter of fact, when she passed and we finally could go through her room, I am not lying when I tell you that I probably found stuffed in every crevice of every place in her room, probably 600 candy wrappers everywhere, everywhere. So so, anyways, we started, we just started seeing all those things she started eating healthy. We just started seeing the old Haley coming back, and so I was like thinking wow, in my mind. It was like, wow, this anxiety, the friend group, all of this really took a toll on her, not knowing that the whole time it was all marijuana, you know. I sort of learned that later and so that kind of like explains how Haley used to be. And then how you know how Haley was then.
Speaker 1:So she, you know, we grounded her and I had her going to a counselor and I wanted her, I told her, like you need to start writing a journal just for yourself. Just write a journal and get all your feelings out. Just get it all out of you, like get all of your stuff out. And then I wanted her to like make a list or do something like to look forward to the future and what she wanted to do and things like that. So she did, she was, you know, telling me, like you know, she had her journal and, um, she kind of had two journals. She had like this, uh, kind of like this, um, I don't know, it was like sort of like a spiritual journal, I guess, but uh, of all these things, like all these positive things and all these things that she wanted more confidence and all these different things that she wanted to do, and she would show me, she would draw pictures in there and show me.
Speaker 1:And then she had her other journal where she was writing, like her things in there and so, um, everything was going well and she was working with the counselor and she kept saying, mom, I just, I'm so glad I got all those chemicals out of my system, like I feel so much lighter that I told you, because I've been lying to you so long. And it broke my heart because she said um, you know cause? I was saying, like that night I got mad at her. I was saying, like Haley, like you were telling about your friends, they're vaping marijuana and I'm here trying to and you needed to help it and I'm like, and I'm here trying to help you, help them get off of it, and the whole time you're doing it.
Speaker 1:And she said, mom, I knew if anybody was going to catch me, it was you, because we're so close, she's like. But I know, because we're so close, I know enough how to manipulate you. She's like, I've been manipulating you for months. And she said I knew if I told you that that you were going to think I wasn't doing it, if I was telling you about my friend. And it was kind of like a preemptive strike so that I wouldn't think she was doing it. And let me tell you, it worked like a charm. I literally said to my husband after that conversation with her we can pat ourselves on the back, we're doing something right. Because if she was doing it she wouldn't be telling me about it, and so I really didn't think. I really didn't think she was doing it, because we talked all about and she was telling me how she was worried about her friend and worried about her doing it, and so I had no idea. You know, she was just doing it so that I wouldn't suspect that she was doing it.
Speaker 1:But maybe so worried about herself and giving herself some information to anyone, right, right, yeah, it's kind of like when you go, you know I have a friend when you're really talking about yourself, yeah. So, um, she was saying like she was, it really bothered her that she lied to me all the time because we were so close and she hated that she lied to me and all of these things. So, you know, we. But she also shared with me. She had these fears of uh, so she's grounded, she can't talk to her friends.
Speaker 1:And she shared with me like she was afraid that her friends would not find her to be the cool, like the cool chill girl, chill girl, like that marijuana made her, like vaping made her, and she was afraid that they wouldn't want to hang out with her. And I said, haley, like I said like a really mom thing, like I mean it's, it's just I feel like I have some great mom advice, but I don't think they always appreciate our mom advice. But I was like Haley, first of all, if somebody's not going to hang out with you because you won't get high, like that's not your tribe. But I was like Haley, first of all, if somebody is not going to hang out with you because you won't get high, like that's not your tribe, but I could just see, like her checking out when I said that, I can like literally see see it.
Speaker 1:And um, and I said but most of your friends like some of them are new friends, but most of your friends knew you in elementary, like they knew you before. You've been friends with them forever. Um, and she said well, I think what will happen is, she said they will want me to succeed and they won't want me. You know, if I want to quit, they'll respect that, but then they're going to not invite me places because they're going to want to get high. You know they're going to want to get high and then they won't want to do it in front of me or they won't want to do things one-on-one with me, because it's not as fun when you're with some. You know that when you don't have somebody that's going to get high with you. So she said, I feel like I'm going to be excluded. And so I said well, these are things that I think we can work on with the counselor because, to be really honest with her, with you, she was kind of right. I was probably my me and my friend were the only ones that didn't smoke marijuana back in my day and we had a friend group, just like Haley and we, we, we didn't like they didn't care to smoke. They didn't, we didn't care if they like smoked it in front of us, but I would not get invited like one-on-one because it wasn't as fun to be with me one-on-one. So I kind of knew she had a point there and I wasn't. So I thought like this is a better thing for like the counselor, like we would come up with a plan, um. So she had a lot of anxiety, not not, do you know? Not um, vaping like, of what it was going to do with her friend group. So Labor Day came along and we went to a sunflower festival and that's why our logo. It was the last place we went as a family and that's why our logo has a sunflower on it, our Haley's Helpers logo. And we let her invite her friend and that was the first time because she kind of went back into a friend group because they were going to be starting school and so, um, that was labor, it was liberty was. So that was on a sunday, liberty was on a monday.
Speaker 1:So tuesday she went to her school and then she asked me if she can hang out with her friends after school, and she had been doing so well and working on so many things and she was just so. She just seemed so like mentally healthy, like you know, like more than I've seen her in a while. I just didn't realize it, and, um, so I let her go after school and then I went and picked her up later and they had so much fun, oh my gosh, they were so happy to have Haley back, and that's what she was worried about is they would just move on and forgotten her. But they had written things down, they had, like, made notes and written things down of all the things that happened in the three weeks that she wasn't around, so she wouldn't miss anything. And they had done all these things, and when I went and picked her up, they were all. They all came out and they were dancing. They're dancing around my car. They made these videos and she just had such a great time.
Speaker 1:And so Wednesday she asked me if she could go again. This time, though, um, they had an older friend that they met at the at their youth, their church youth group that could drive, and I was a little bit hesitant because she had never really driven with anybody. That um was a young driver, but I let her go and she was so good. I didn't ask her to do this. But you know, she was so good. She was like texting me pictures and texting me like we're leaving here now. We just got here now just because she didn't want me to worry, and so, and then you know, they were just having a ball, like I don't know. She was sending me pictures. They were at the mall, somebody was in car like a shopping cart, they had a lampshade on their head, they were just doing teen things and having so much fun and she kept texting me how much fun they were having.
Speaker 1:And then, um, she asked me what time she was she should be home. And I said, uh, you know, just try to be home at 8 30, you gotta get ready for bed and stuff. So she was home at 8 28. My husband and I were up in our bedroom watching a movie and she came in. She was like mom, I had like the best day, like it, like the best night, you know, and she's telling me about it. She was like it was just like the best day ever.
Speaker 1:And she came and gave me a hug and she told me that she was going to change her clothes and do a little bit of math homework, and and then, like about 15 minutes later I was starting to kind of fall asleep and I was afraid I was going to fall asleep and I didn't know if I should set my alarm because one of the other moms we've been alternating, alternating taking the kids to school. So I was calling her to see if I needed to set my alarm and she wasn't answering and so I thought she must be in the basement down in her like where her art studio is. I thought, well, she must be down there, like doing her homework. I went down there and I, you know, couldn't find her. I was calling, her calling and I found her and she was gone.
Speaker 1:I mean it was just like boom, she was gone and I couldn't even figure out, like I couldn't figure out like what was even wrong. Like I I couldn't in my brain figure out what was going on. And it just happened that fast and um, like I said, we just got, she just got done, telling me what a great night. She was texting me all day and there were no warning signs, like all those signs you know that we are trained or not trained, but that we, I guess, know your typical signs of a suicide risk. You know Haley had no history of, like, mental illness or depression. She always wanted to have fun. Haley was always laughing, always laughing. Like we were constantly like Haley shut your door. She would be on the you know FaceTiming people and we'd be like Haley shut your door Cause they were laughing so hard. We like couldn't hear our you know our television. So she was just always laughing.
Speaker 1:Like I said, she had a big friend group. She fit in with everybody. She made friends, you know, really easily. So it was so shocking because it was the last thing that I thought like she was the last person ever like literally, if you said your daughter is going to take her own life or she's an alien I would have picked alien Like just that was something that was never, she was never going to do.
Speaker 1:And we had had so many conversations about it and at the time like I just could not figure out why, like I kept thinking like something catastrophic had to have happened that night, like she got raped, or like something catastrophic happened for her to do that. I just could not make any sense out of it. And you know, when something like this happens, it's a crime scene. So they go up and take everything, they don't let you in the room. And they went up and they took everything and she had left a note, a very short note, on her desk and said it said something like I'm so sorry, I wanted to be near you, that's why I did it here, or something like that did it here or something like that.
Speaker 1:And so they showed us that note. But they took all her journals, they took her phone, they took her computer, they took everything. So, um, because it's, um, basically a crime scene until they, you know, rule that it's not, and it took um at least 12 weeks to get all of that stuff back. It took 15 weeks of me calling to try to get a toxicology report back, and so we were just so lost as to why our daughter did that and when I was able to before we got everything back when I was able to go into her room. It was just really hard, but I wanted to try to find some clues and I could only really do one drawer at a time. But the first drawer I went into, she had this drawer that she kept her special stuff and Haley had left us notes there. So she left us a couple goodbye notes because she had been thinking about it for a while, and so, even though the police took some of the things like we found, um, she left us on like a one page goodnight but goodbye note, half of it to her dad and half of it to us, and that was where we got our first clue. So in it she said I used to be a good person. I think I used to be a good person, but I turned myself into a drug addict. And I don't care what people say about marijuana not being addicted, it is and I can't stop and I ruined my life. And that was the first nugget of us knowing something. Nugget of us knowing something you know, like knowing why she did it. That was the first nugget that we had and I kept. We kept thinking like marijuana, like how did marijuana do this? Like because it's not addictive, and stuff. So my husband and I started researching and Googling and learning about it and we started learning. You know that today's marijuana isn't the marijuana that we think. You know that we normally think of. And so when we finally did get um and also her friends, her friends started finally talking to us. They told us that night, um, they told us that night that Haley, somebody offered Haley a vape and she did it. And they told us that she went into a huge panic attack on the way home when she did it and they had to pull over and tried to calm her down and they could hardly get her calmed down enough to get her in the house. So she was in a huge panic attack and after I educated myself and learned more about marijuana, it all made sense, because you know it's highly addictive. The THC is this high potency. Thc is so strong and so it was kind of like the perfect storm.
Speaker 1:Haley had been doing it for a year. She it, it, it. You know, as you know, it will stop the anxiety for the short time, but then it causes more. So you have to keep hitting it Right, so you have the anxiety while you're doing it. Now she gets cut off of it cold turkey because she gets caught and gets grounded and the withdrawals are worse. So now she's going through all these withdrawals and the anxiety is super high, with the depression, all the things right, and she's battling that and we don't know it. Then she goes out and somebody has her hit it.
Speaker 1:So she's hitting it like she normally does and then she went into that um, what do they call it, the induced psychosis over.
Speaker 1:She wasn't in psychosis, I don't think she may have been, I don't have any proof of that but it was like basically like she kind of um, she didn't have the tolerance, so it sent her like the potency of it like, sent her into like an induced um, there's a term for it but where she was like in a marijuana induced state where everything was just heightened. I think she was having super bad panic attacks and I think that she just wanted out, like she just couldn't, like she couldn't, she couldn't take it anymore, and she wanted out, she couldn't take it anymore, she and she wanted out. And so, um, when we finally got the toxicology report, if it you know, um, she had high three different thcs, which are common street thcs, and they were very high doses, not because she did a huge amount of it, but because of today's high potency thc products that you know, back in the in the day you know, it was 2-4%.
Speaker 2:Do you have those toxicology reports? I do Don't ever get rid of them. No.
Speaker 1:I have them. I have them saved in like three different places, yeah. So so we kind of started putting the pieces together and then that's sort of how I ended up down this road. I started trying to learn everything that I could learn about it and then I was trying to find ways to. I knew I people will tell you that I said I think it was like five days after Haley passed. I didn't know what it was, but I said this isn't going to be for nothing. I don't want a parent to go through this. At the time I was thinking it was like I was going to get into something suicide based because I didn't know why it happened. But I knew I was going to do something and just didn't know what. And so this kind of evolved into. Now I knew what was going on and why it happened, and so the first thing kind of that I did is I wanted to just educate people parents, I knew I should say this Michigan in her generation, when she was in middle school.
Speaker 1:That was when marijuana got legalized in Michigan. So they were the guinea pigs. Absolutely they were, absolutely. They were their. Her generation, it was the guinea pigs of all of this, and so none of us knew it. They quietly got everybody to vote for because everybody thought that it's just marijuana. It, you know, has all these good things about it. You don't. You know it's not addictive. It's not addictive, it's natural. There's nothing natural about it. Um, it's all chemicals and you know, um, engineered and you know, concentrated. So there's nothing natural about it. And uh, so that you know, her generation was the first one to get off.
Speaker 1:So at the time there were no, there wasn't any education really in Michigan I think some of the coalitions were doing a good job at educating, but Haley, the coalition and Haley school really didn't do a whole lot, so they hadn't been educated. There was nothing really talked about on the news at the time. You didn't hear anything about it. So now you do, now you're hearing, you know hearing. Stuff is starting to come out, you're hearing more about it, People are starting to hear about it. But at the time nobody knew anything. So I thought, all right, I'm going to write a Facebook post and at least I know, so that people aren't blindsided like me. And I found out from Haley's friends it's like, um, they didn't even know anybody that wasn't doing it. So that told me a lot, of, a lot of people were doing, a lot of kids were doing it.
Speaker 1:So I started to write it. She had been passed like three months and I wrote it. And then I started to write it and I chickened out and I couldn't do it because I am a very private person. So to put something out on social media like that, it just wasn't me. But I had a goal that I was going to do it at some point and I said I was going to do it before it was a year that she passed. So around eight months that she had been gone, I said, all right, I promised myself I would do it. So I was glad I didn't send it out at the time because I didn't know everything at the time. Like I was just piecing it all together and eight months later I knew a lot more about high-potency THC products than I did.
Speaker 1:So I wrote a Facebook post and it was very long and I didn't know how to make it shorter. But I put my heart and soul into it and I thought nobody was how to make it shorter. But I put my heart and soul into it and I thought nobody was going to read it and I thought like if one or two people read it, then great, like I'm doing something. And so I put it out there. And for 20 minutes I didn't see anything or anybody commenting on it, so I put the phone away. And then finally somebody texted me and said can you make it public so I can share it? I was like, okay, I guess I'm going to do that. So I did and, to be honest, to be sure, it was shared 560 times or something. And then I had all kinds of people reaching out to me and telling me their stories, telling me that after they read it, they went through their kid's backpack and they found the pens and just, you know all of these things. And that led me to the admissions.
Speaker 1:Our North Oakland coalition director reached out and said you know, you are so brave putting this out there and this is going to help so many people. And I started noticing like mental health websites and stuff started reposting it. And then I had people ask me if they could send it to schools, contacting me and asking me if they could email it out, and so I don't even know how far it went, and I just remember I had so much anxiety, so much anxiety, like, wow, I'm really out there, Like it's really out there, my name's out there, Like, and I kept thinking like, oh my gosh, people are going to say some horrible things or something to me. And I fortunately never did get that, but that was kind of how this started. And then, when the, when she reached out and said, like you're so brave and she's like, if you ever want to have coffee or something, let me know. And so a couple of weeks went by and I thought, like I want to do something more, and so I did. I said, hey, can I take you up on your offer? So we went out, um, we met for uh, lunch and you know, she was like I think you're amazing and we, like, we trade all these stories. And she's like I want to, you know, build a workshop around you.
Speaker 1:Granted, like, at the time, I think my number one fear was public speaking. I never put myself in there. I don't like to be the center of attention with people I don't know, Like I'm in a group of people that I know, but I do not like being like, like judged and you know, like so she was. So her idea was it was Dr Kilmer, I don't know, if you know Dr Kilmer, Okay. So she was like telling me all about him. I didn't know about him at the time and she was like let's do a workshop if we can get him and you. And then you know, we'll get a button, we'll get the Clarkston School District in Lake Oregon and Oxford and we'll build this big event around it district in Ligurian and Oxford and we'll build this big event around it.
Speaker 1:And in my mind I was saying to her in this what was supposed to come out? My mouth was like, yeah, I'm not doing that, Like I'm not, I will not. And that was what I was supposed to be saying. But what came out of my mouth was I would love to do. That sounds great. And I remember why are you saying this? Why are you saying this? Like you don't want to do this? And I remember driving home thinking like, why did you just say you would do this? And I don't know why, because that wasn't what I was gonna say. And so, um, so we ended up putting that together. I kept thinking, oh, maybe it'll fall through, maybe it'll fall through, but the same token, I wanted to educate. So I was like stop being a chicken, Like, if you're going to educate, this is what you got to do, Like you just got to. You know man up like you just got to do it.
Speaker 1:So luckily Dr Kilmer was saying like it would probably be better if it was a webinar, because more you know, parents would join and stuff, because this was in March and I think the weather wasn't that great in Michigan and he thought we would have a better turnout if we did a webinar. Wasn't that great in Michigan and that he thought we would have a better turnout if we did a webinar. Well, in my job I'm in meetings all day virtually, so it was something I felt more comfortable with. So my first public speaking was um, because it was live. So my first public speaking was that. And then after that, um, I, I joined, uh. So we have this at Claire Haley's school.
Speaker 2:They do a program called Real Talk and basically, do you know, have you heard of it? I've heard of it because with my prevention background, I've heard of so many different yeah.
Speaker 1:So for those listening, so Real Talk is. I had no idea what it was, but it's really hard to explain. You almost have to experience. It's a very emotional day. It's a whole day, like the kids volunteer to go. It's during the school day and it's basically getting students to talk about their struggles and realizing they're not alone and like supporting one another. So you start off with like these fun activities in the gym and then you break off into 10 person groups and with two facilitators. So I was a facilitator and they give you kind of like a crash course on facilitating because you're, you're there to get them talking. They have all these games and different things that you use to get them talking and kind of supporting each other. You're not there to be a therapist and so I I signed up to do this. And then the most emotional part is they have something called walk the line and I think it's like 116 or 106 or something statements and basically, if it applies to you, you walk the line and you go out to the middle of the gym, you turn around and you're looking at the people that didn't cross the line. So you guys are like kind of looking at each other and they give you the I love you sign.
Speaker 1:So it starts off with, like you know, somebody has hurt my feelings. So then everybody's walking up. But then it gets into. I have parents in prison, you know, I or somebody I know have been sexually abused. I've you know, it just goes into all of these things and it's completely silent and you look around and there's just tears going down and you're watching people walk out and I think people that um are friends with each other and they think that they know each other are so surprised at some of the things they walk out and they're so brave doing this and then you kind of go back into your group and talk about that and then you try to bring it back up. But I went to that and um and my second I think it was the second one that I had done I was driving down, I you it. It takes a while to shake it because there's so much that comes out that you can't believe these kids are dealing with.
Speaker 1:And I was uh, it's usually on a Friday, so it was a Saturday and my my soul healing is is walking in the wood like hiking in the woods. My soul healing is is walking in the wood, like hiking in the woods. So I was on my way to hike in the woods to try to process this all out and I got this like uh, epiphany, like this download of like you should create a workshop and you, you know, because it's kind of you know like they go and air all these problems and they go back to school, and now you know, like there's you know, like what happens next and the real talks are months in between. And you know, like what happens next and the real talks are months in between, and you know, um, so I just started thinking like you should do, you should try to, you know, do a workshop and it should be like a uh, kind of a mini version of this. And you know you could do that. And I'm like, you know, and you should call it after talk, cause it's the talk that happens after real talk. Like I'm going through all of these things in my head and I was like this is a great idea. And then I then I'm walking in the woods and I'm like are you kidding? Like what? Why? Where do you think you can pull something like this? I'm like where are you getting this? What's this crazy idea you're getting.
Speaker 1:So then later on, you know, uh, later on that night, I'm sitting here and pops in my head again and I'm thinking like, okay, like how I would have to feed them, cause food is a big draw, how would I do that? I feed, you know, we take hayley's friends and it's a couple hundred dollars every time we go out and I'm like I don't have the money to do this and it's like, and then I can start getting this other down, one you should start a foundation. And I'm thinking like I'm not doing that, I'm not starting a foundation, like I don't know anything about a foundation, I I can't do something like that. I'm in this deep grief on top of it. And so I kept getting that, um, you know from uh field of dreams that, yeah, mine held it, they were calm, oh, that kept playing on a loop like I'd be working in a meeting and I'd have that going on in my head. And then all of a sudden, they're doing a whole bit of bit on the news like they're doing a thing, and the guy comes out of the corn. Then we go and we take Kaylee's uh friends to, um, to a cider mill. We're doing a corn maze.
Speaker 1:I don't tell anybody about any of the stuff going on with me, because I'm feeling like they think I was a little crazy. And so then one of her friends, travis, comes out of the corn. He's like if you build it, like come, and I'm like, come on. Like I'm like, are you serious, I don't want to do this. So I I kept feeling pulled Like I'm supposed to start a foundation, but I did not want to start a foundation. That was big and it was scary and I did not think I was qualified to be doing something like that.
Speaker 1:So we have a lawyer at my work and I was like all right, so this will stop going through my head, I'm going to prove that I can't do this. So I called him. I was like, hey, hypothetically speaking, like if I started a foundation, I'm sure like it's really hard, it's really expensive, you probably have to have a lawyer and probably cost a lot of money. And he's like yeah, well, you know it does, and this and that. And I was like good, thanks, okay. And he's like but I'd be willing to help him do everything for free. And I was like so these little things kept happening. So just, um, I kept feeling pulled to do it. So, finally, I was just like, whatever, all right, I'm starting a foundation, and. And so I did.
Speaker 1:And I had no idea what I was going to do with it. And um, and one thing about a foundation you know you and I were talking about earlier it just kind of has a life of its own. And so, um, I started Haley's helpers um March 8th of 2023. Uh, we became a 501c3, of 2023,. Uh, we became a 501 C three.
Speaker 1:No idea what I was going to do with it. And, um, I just knew that I wanted to help. It's you know, it's um, I didn't even know what. I remember filling the paperwork out and Jordan was like well, what is your foundation going to do? And I'm like I don't know, what do you think? Do you think it's? I'm like I don't know, it's probably going'm like I don't know, it's probably gonna like I don't know, I guess talk about suicide, maybe like some substance abuse, I don't know. Like I have no idea. And he's like well, we have to put something on paperwork what you're about to do. So I was like, well, I just want to help kids and I want to educate. So he's like just tell me what you want to do, and I was them everything. So we decided it was advocating for youth mental health. So that's what the foundation was going to be about. We just didn't know. But one thing I realized like sometimes you just take action, you don't have to know the how. The how resolves itself. So I just started taking action and then, um, it just started developing, you know, into that, into into things, and I cut.
Speaker 1:I was getting asked to speak other places and and, um, I put together. You know I did that with Dr Kilmer and then I, um, he presented all the marijuana facts. I just told my story. But then I got asked for at Chrysler, which is Stellantis now. But, um, I got asked to do a lunch and learn, uh, at a college career fair. There they wanted me to be the breakout speaker. So then I had to write my own presentation. I had to learn everything about marijuana and the high-potency THC products and I had to go and educate about that. So I built this whole presentation and then I, just from there, I just had people ask me to do things and I am happy to say that it was almost exactly one year later.
Speaker 1:I went and pitched after talk to the school and I knew I had to hold it somewhere and I needed a partner to do this because I needed help with this. And I just remember Haley, she went to a church youth group. I go to the church now. I didn't really go to church before, but after she passed I started going to that church and I just remember everybody loved the youth director there so I pitched it to him. I was like, hey, you said you wanted to help me with the foundation because he knew Haley. I was like here's what I was thinking and you work with teens all the time, and so he was completely on board and they have, you know, a gym, they have a whole refuge with a game room, and so and the school was on board. They were on board, we spent the summer building it out and the first after talk happened in October and we had our first or the first real talk happened in October. We had our first after talk in November and then we just had our second one in December.
Speaker 1:So a year later it's hard to believe that I was driving on the road, had this crazy idea and from there that's what really made me start a foundation. And here now I have a foundation and and I have this youth workshop going where, you know, we we talk about our struggles, but we also have fun and and, um, we have food and and all of that. And then, um, you know, now, I, now I know exactly what my calling is at this point, and that is to educate about today's high-potency thc products. I'm working on getting over, like, my fear of public speaking and you know that's what'm going to hit the ground running with in 2025. And through there, I was asked to recently, right before the election. I was asked to.
Speaker 1:I started down this road of two of our cities had dispensaries and to get dispensaries in the city on the ballot, and so they had read, they found they heard my name through somebody. They reached out and they wanted to build like a program around me and, um, that and and uh, they wanted to to. And at the time I didn't know a lot, you know, like I didn't know a lot about a foundation, and I found out, like you have to be very careful of lobbying, but I was going to do this and at that time, my dad got really sick and ended up going on hospice and passing away, so I wasn't able to do it, but that is how I learned about PAN. So that's where, that's where I'm subwaying into, that is where I learned about you guys, because they said to me when I was meeting with them they were like, oh, you know, you know, where do you get all you know?
Speaker 1:Like we were talking about, like where I get my information and stuff, and at the time I only really knew about Johnny's Embarrassed Ambassadors, laura Stack, so that and then they were telling about Sam and Pan, and then I've, you guys had just done your first Fortitude. You guys had just done your first fortitude, right, you had just done your first fortitude. And I listened to that and I reached out to you guys and said you know, and that's that's how I heard about you, that's how I ended up here and what a great resource you guys are, and I um so thankful that they mentioned you guys to me, and so that's kind of how I ended up here. I know you wanted me to talk about that a little bit. Yes, I did.
Speaker 1:So, that's kind of yeah, so that's. I don't know if I worked in everything you wanted me to talk about, but that's kind of how you and I ended up together here and how I ended up with this foundation. And you said finding power in the pain. What did, what was your thing that you said finding power in the pain? What was your thing that you said Finding power in the pain or using your?
Speaker 2:pain, oh yes, like turning your pain into power, Just basically showing courage in the face of grief and adversity. Yeah, when I was thinking about this podcast, we wanted a one word title and I talked about it with our EVP, luke, and I kept thinking about a name, and, and fortitude just kept coming back to me and I was like it really is everything that these parents are, and, and Luke was like I love it. So we were like that's it, you know, and and so we went with it and I was like thinking of I was just in my head, it was all I could think of so it's really. It's really exemplifies each and every one of you. While your stories are different, they're the same in that you all are. So I mean, I just admire each and every one of you, like it's, you're all just unbelievable and you know, I just I just don't even know what more I could say, except that I have such admiration for all of you and I don't know that's why I do what I do each and every day, because this is not about me, it's about you and I just am so passionate about raising your voices. I do want to say a few things, because you yes, you did answer most of my questions for me, so thank you for that.
Speaker 2:But you also said a couple of things. You know. You said that Haley left a few notes and that she said that marijuana was addictive. And you know she's not the first person that left a note for her parents and you've probably heard this before but Sally Shindell's son left a note that said marijuana ruined my life and killed my soul. You know, johnny Stack left a note for Laura and said you were right. You know it ruined my life. And now and now, Haley and these notes are important. The the government has to start to listen to this. You know, these toxicology reports showing high potency marijuana and THC levels in these, these kids and young adults and nothing else has to start to speak volumes. You know this is this is becoming a bigger and bigger problem each day. And listen to the voices across this country. That's why we're doing this podcast too. That's why so many of you were speaking out. I mean, we hear these stories every single day. We hear these stories over and, over and over again. How can they keep being ignored? You know?
Speaker 1:this is so true. It's so true and I don't think I, you know, I didn't circle back to like uh, when we finally were able to get everything back from the police, we had her cell phone back. Um, her friend showed us like I think it was YouTube where we could go into like her personal things, personal, like her personal videos, and Haley had made a lot of videos, and she was videoing herself vaping in her room right next to ours, and, like we never knocked, we would just walk in the room, never smelled it, never anything. But she was vaping in her room, and either two things would happen. She had music in the background, and either she was really happy, feeling beautiful, or she was really sad, crying, but you can write. The point I'm trying to get at, though, is you can write on these, um, on the videos. So she had a video of her crying and the sad song playing in the background while she was getting high, and she uh wrote a lot of things like um, I, you know, I, I hate the way, uh, I hate the way the drugs make me feel. I think I wrote some of these down.
Speaker 1:Um, she was saying the weed doesn't help anymore. Um, I hate the way this makes me feel. I hate that I'm lying to my mom constantly, but the thing that stuck out in my head the most was she said um, I hate how, I hate my thinking now and how my brain works. Something's wrong. Wow, she, she didn't know because these kids were educated that these high potency THC products change your thinking, they change your, your brain, chemicals and they change what you're thinking. They create suicide ideation, they create all of this depression.
Speaker 1:Haley was a very like we would call her an old soul, because Haley was a very logical person.
Speaker 1:She was so street smart and she could read people and she was just so logical. So I know if Haley would have known all of these things if she was educated uh, like I think they are starting to educate the students, like I'm starting to educate and she knew all of these things, all of these signs to watch out for, she would have probably either a not started because she thought she chose her poison carefully, but B she would have recognized when some of these things were happening. Like she would have thought oh yeah, I learned that marijuana does this Right. My guess is she on some level knew something was wrong with her brain and it wasn't thinking right. She did not stop it, she didn't know who to talk to about it, and she also wrote in her journal that she didn't want to tell people that she was having problems because she was afraid that she was going to end up in an institute or something. So something was going on in her head that she was hiding to end up like in an institute or something.
Speaker 1:So something was going on in her head that she was hiding from everyone and I know 100% learning about these high potency THC products. That's what was doing it and that was why she was saying to me when she was off of it like you know, I don't like the way those drugs made me feel and all of that. But there was so much pressure and so much worry that if she didn't do it but I don't think she had any idea that what it does to an underdeveloped brain, how you know what it does to the endocannabinoid system, how it rewires your cell, and she didn't know any of those things, no-transcript. I would have not went through the anxiety route. I would have known that you can't just stop. It's so hard to stop, it's so hard to get off of and it's hard to stay off of.
Speaker 1:So I would have known we needed different help and I would have known it was the marijuana causing all of that and I would have went and got help to get her off the marijuana. So it was the perfect storm of us not having any knowledge. I couldn't help her and she didn't know and couldn't help herself. Her friends couldn't help her because they didn't know, and so that's why it's so important to me to try to educate parents and, you know, kids, and that's what I'm trying to do so, yep, and you're doing a heck of a job of it.
Speaker 1:Thank you.
Speaker 2:Heck of a job, so, um. So you've definitely answered some of my questions. One of my questions was how, when you knew something was wrong, how you found help. And a lot of our parents have a little bit of a different story where this is concerned, in that it was more profound recreational use, and this was a little different in that it was rather quick and you found out very quickly. So you acted right away and got her therapy that she was pretty willing to go into. She really didn't, she didn't seem to fight you on that, and so that's a little bit different.
Speaker 2:In a lot of these cases there's a big struggle with that. You know, it's been way more long term use and everything, so so we address that. So thank you for for covering that. And then, um, how we got connected. Yeah, that was, um, that was interesting as well and you know I'm so glad that you found us and I foresee such a great future here and you know, again, while you're dealing with some personal things, when the new year comes, I can foresee a great future and we're here to help in any way we can and I look forward to the future together and for our listeners. You know, please go to the PAN webpage on the SAM website and if you scroll down to our partner agencies you can find Haley's helper and you can click on the link and get right to Cindy's website and you can check out her resources and check out Haley's addressing suicide. But you're addressing specifically marijuana and the link with suicide and mental health, so you know we need that more and more. So that's, I think, very important in your work.
Speaker 1:Yeah, my logo has advocating for youth mental health in our mission statements as substance abuse. However, I am thinking about now that at the time I wasn't sure what all we were doing, so I was kind of being more general. But I think I am going to talk to the board about making the mission statement more specific, because it really is high potency um THC products that we're educating about. But, yes, throughout, you know, I tell Haley's story um different things, but, um, I, if you, if you go on our site, you can tell you can it's all very marijuana based, like you can tell that that's what we're advocating for. So I, I, um, initially thought that the foundation was going to be suicide related uh, until I started getting you know, finding out what, what caused the suicide, and then I can kind of hand another mission.
Speaker 1:But also, it's very hard to live in the suicide bucket every day. Um, it's hard because you're, you know you're, you're sitting in it and reliving it and I feel like there's so many, especially like uh, in our community and stuff. There's so many people that I know personally that they have um had the same loss and with their children, and they are focused more on suicide. So, um, I feel like that's covered and it's not a bucket. It's not really where I'm being called. I feel like I'm being called.
Speaker 1:I feel like I'm very much being called for the high-point CTHC products. So, yeah, that is very much our focus. That's really what that's really kind of what the educational piece of the foundation is about. And then the workshops are to work with teens just to help their mental health in general, so they don't feel like they have to do these things you know to. They don't feel like they have to get rid of their anxiety but by trying that or their depression, or you know that's, you know. So it's kind of like two pieces that we're focused on at this point for the foundation.
Speaker 2:Right, um. So before we wrap up, is there something, a message you would like to leave our parent and family listeners with? Um, how to help them with their journey through the same thing.
Speaker 1:I mean, I guess, uh, you know for parents that maybe this hasn't guess, uh, you know for parents that maybe this hasn't directly affected that might be listening. Um, knowledge is power and I think, like I wish I probably would have been a little bit more of a snooper. I think I would have you know, I wish I would have been a little bit more, um, I don't know, knowledgeable and watching and learning the signs and watching out for them and not thinking that my child I know my child, my child would never do that, and being open-minded and realizing that your child very much could be doing it, because it's just, it's so out there right now and it's so it's just on social media and and everything. Um, especially if you're you know, for when they legalize it. I mean, it's just, the marketing is everywhere and it's marketing to kids. They say they're not marketing to kids. It's all marketing to kids, right, and you know, um, for parents that are struggling with their kids that are maybe doing this right now, um, I know it's very, very hard to get them off of this, but you really do everything that you can do because you don't want to be in our shoes, you know. You just, you just don't want to be in our shoes. It, uh it. It upturns every, every part of your life and it's a struggle. And you know it's hard for me to give advice on that because I didn't know Haley was doing it, we didn't get the time, we were just going down the path of trying to get her off of it. So we didn't really. Unfortunately, we didn't have the chance to try to help her or the chance to try to get the help. So you know, my prayers go out out to everybody. That's that's dealing with um, with that. But I wish that we would have gotten the chance to try, the chance to do everything that you can to to try to get them off of these products. And you know, the best thing that we can do is fight back. Fight back against these companies.
Speaker 1:Knowledge is power. Educate yourself and then go be your own, go be your kids' advocates and educate others. And that's how it spreads, right. That's how it spreads by us telling everybody what we know about it. You don't have to have a foundation, you don't have to be in front of a bunch of people to do this. You can tell your friends and you can share If you follow people on Facebook or social media. You can share all it and stop before they get into the addiction. Part of it You're, you're a part of, of saving someone from going through, whatever you're you're dealing with, what I'm dealing with, just by sharing your knowledge and that's what you know. I I, when I do my events, I I say, now that I've educated you, it's your job to go out and your job to kind of advocate and tell others. Let's let this knowledge spread.
Speaker 2:So that's what I would say Well, thank you so much for that and thank you again so much for joining us. I know you have a lot going on and I know it's late, and thank you for sharing your story. I know it can be difficult sometimes. As you just said, the more we bring awareness to this issue, the harder it's going to be for lawmakers and legislators to ignore the facts and at some point they're going to have to put public health and wellness before profits.
Speaker 2:I just want to mention that the Parent Action Network is repeating our past webinar on medical marijuana and the myths about it. We featured Dr Aaron Weiner and a mom from Pennsylvania to tell her story about how a doctor recommended medical marijuana to her autistic, adult, nonverbal son and how it threw his life into a tailspin that she is still experiencing the negative impact of that. And again, this is a past webinar that we're repeating in preparation for our upcoming conference and Hill Day, which will be February 2nd through the 5th. Of course, the SAM summit will also be that same week, on February 6th and 7th, um Thursday and Friday in uh 2025. So keep looking out for those invitations and um we hope that everybody has a very Merry Christmas and a happy Hanukkah, happy Kwanzaa, happy new year, happy holidays and thank you again, cindy, for being with us and please, everybody, keep listening to the podcast, keep reading our newsletters and watching our webinars and we'll see you all in the new year.
Speaker 1:Thank you.