Fortitude: Turning Tragedy into Action
A podcast by the Parent Action Network (PAN), a division of Smart Approaches to Marijuana (SAM), dedicated to amplifying the voices of parents whose lives have been devastated by the harmful effects of marijuana. Each episode features personal interviews with parents sharing their heart-wrenching stories of loss, addiction, and the impact on their families. Through these powerful narratives, PAN aims to educate, inspire, and mobilize listeners to take action against the widespread dangers of marijuana use.
Fortitude: Turning Tragedy into Action
From Peace to Struggle: Kathy's Journey Through Her Son's Marijuana Addiction
How does a substance once seen as taboo become a source of heartache within a family? Meet Kathy from Florida, who shares the poignant transformation her family went through when marijuana entered their lives. Her story offers a heartfelt perspective on the shift from a peaceful life with her husband and three sons to grappling with the challenges of her son's marijuana addiction. Kathy's journey compels us to question societal perceptions and the evolving potency of today's cannabis products.
Exploring the ripple effects of addiction on family dynamics, we discuss the tough choices Kathy's family made, such as encouraging their son to live independently. These decisions highlight the struggle between supporting a loved one and safeguarding the family's well-being. Our discussion challenges the perception of marijuana as harmless, drawing attention to the frustrations with medical professionals and the troubling ease with which medical marijuana cards are obtained. We underscore the complex landscape of addiction and the need for collective advocacy and education to foster change.
Kathy's emotional narrative underscores the importance of community support, therapy, and advocacy in navigating the trials of addiction. By sharing her story, Kathy inspires a deeper understanding of the emotional toll addiction takes on families and the resilience required to cope. Join our conversation to explore these crucial topics and learn more about our upcoming webinar on marijuana withdrawal, which promises to continue this vital discussion.
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Action Network. As many of you know, we're the grassroots division of Smart Approaches to Marijuana and we're dedicated to amplifying the voices of families whose lives have been devastated by the harmful effects of marijuana. Thank you for joining me for another episode of the Fortitude Podcast. I gave this podcast that title because fortitude means showing courage in the face of grief and adversity. I couldn't think of a better word to exemplify the brave parents and families that stand up, despite their pain, to fight big marijuana and the false narrative that marijuana is a safe and harmless product.
Speaker 2:I really hope that each of these episodes leave you with a profound understanding of the urgent need for awareness, better regulations and the power of community support in addressing the challenges posed by today's marijuana products. Now I'd like to introduce you to our guest this week, kathy, from Florida, and she's here to share her story and tell us a little bit about how her journey began once her life was impacted by marijuana. So, kathy, thank you so much for being here. Thank you for having me. Chrissy, before you tell us your story, would you mind beginning by telling us a little bit about what life was like before marijuana became a factor in your life and also what your feelings were on marijuana legalization.
Speaker 1:Sure, absolutely. It's kind of hard to remember, to be honest, what it was like. And it's kind of hard to remember, to be honest, you know what it was like, but you know, looking at photographs and you know the memories, I mean it was a lot happier, it was a lot more peaceful. You know life was challenging. I mean, being a parent is challenging, right, and as a mother of boys, I think you know the teenage years are even more challenging. But it was doable, it was manageable and it was a joy on so many levels, right, you know, that challenge was something that I had signed up for and something I wanted with all my heart, and I was willing to throw everything. I think my husband and I had provided everything we could for our boys to give them all the resources to have a very happy and successful life, and we never really envisioned how marijuana could derail that happy life until we lived through it. And then the second part of your question.
Speaker 2:I'm sorry, um what was your stance? You know yourself your marijuana, marijuana, as you know, because yeah.
Speaker 1:Yeah, um, I mean, we certainly didn't, um, you know, uh, encourage it among the boys. You know it was not something that, um, well, I had never, ever done it. Maybe my husband had done like once or twice in high school. You know, it wasn't really very popular in um when we were growing up or, you know, among our groups of friends it was more like drinking, you know, like alcohol was more like the, uh, drug of choice, if you will.
Speaker 1:Um, um, marijuana was just sort of like the stoners or like sort of the periphery, and it wasn't really the kids who were, you know, doing well academically and striving.
Speaker 1:It was sort of like, you know, the outcasts who seemed to be doing marijuana, at least in our circles, and and even when there was some of it at parties, it just it wasn't, you know, near the center of our world by any stretch. Um, and so I kind of, to be honest, look down upon it a little bit, it seemed to me like, um, you know, not that socially acceptable Um, and also, again, the people that I knew who did it were the ones who kind of weren't really striving for, you know, ambitious jobs or getting into good colleges, and it just again, it was sort of on the periphery of my world. I did have hear a little rumblings about people who would like take it to sleep at night. You know, people my age even, and again I was kind of like, oh boy, I'd never mess with that, you know, just just cause I don't know I was, I was so straight laced and you know I mean it just wasn't my thing, so, um, but uh, then of course it entered our world, um, when our son was about, um, I guess 14, 15.
Speaker 2:Right, and interestingly, you know I have, I have adult children too, and so when they're teenagers and you're thinking about like, you hear that they're drinking or you, you find bottles or whatever you know from a party or out in your trailer or whatever you know when they're hanging out in the summer, you know we see these also and I hear it so much with parents as somewhat of a rite of passage. We know our kids are going to experiment and we've heard from a lot of parents that they'll say well, I would have rather been smoking marijuana than drinking alcohol Because, again, we didn't see it as this harmful, harmful product. It's always been touted as a natural plant, but of course today's product is not a plant anymore. Really.
Speaker 1:No, and it's, you know, so easy to access, so easy to smoke surreptitiously, um, and so potent, you know, um. So yeah, I mean um again. You know, maybe we were a little bit naive, uh, but I've learned a lot in the past. You know, almost decade, yeah, yeah.
Speaker 2:How many kids you have.
Speaker 1:Three, three, three sons, all boys. Awesome, yes, yes and yes and um, the one you know who is, uh, currently, uh, uh, you know, dealing with a substance abuse issue is one of the oldest, you know. So, um, and it's, uh, it's been, you know, very difficult on him and the entire family, really, um, and very disruptive. Uh, you know, again you sort of feel like you've almost lost a family member, even though he's still alive, right, you know, I mean we'll get into that probably, but so, yeah, it's pretty tough yeah, so if you don't mind sharing with us, please, you know, tell us your story and how this all came to be sure, sure.
Speaker 1:So, like many kids, I think it started with the jewel and vaping, and that started maybe eighth, ninth grade. I would find these little plastic things in the laundry room. We've all been there. You're on this discovery of what is really going on up in there and you're on like sort of this discovery of, like, what is really going on. You try to confront them and, um, they become really adept at hiding it and you know more, uh, oppositional, and you know it's that typical push and pull between parent and teenager and don't tell me what to do and stop getting into my business and, um, but again, uh, that was concerning to me. Uh, he had asthma as a child and you know I was honestly, you know I was so relieved that our generation kind of could put cigarettes sort of maybe behind us a little bit, because so few people really smoked. And I was like, thank God, at least that's one thing I don't have to worry about with my boys, like I saw. You know, my, my own family, you know right, um, and then Jewel entered the picture and I feel like it was super easy.
Speaker 1:Once you start breaking the rules there, it's really easy to jump to the next thing, which tended to be marijuana, right, um, and so that became more problematic, though I mean, it's one thing to jewel in the house and you have to smell, and I was worried about the formaldehyde and everything like the, the damage to his lungs, but then, like, your house starts to smell like marijuana and you're like what in the world? And what's worse is their actions um, begin to reflect I mean, even with the jewel, but like more so with marijuana, their actions begin to reflect um their drug use, right. So with the jewel, for example, it got so frequent, the need to have a hit on that that he couldn't even sit through a 45 minute class so he'd have to ask for bathroom breaks, would stay in the bathroom, almost couldn't graduate high school, to be honest, right, because he was that disengaged. But around the same time started smoking marijuana, which again, I mean, I know there are studies out there about amotivational disorder and all this stuff, but he was just not incentivized at all to do anything except smoke marijuana. And I will say he also has learning issues, like ADHD in particular, and you know, I know you've probably had other families say this to you like a lot of teenagers with ADHD, like they take their first hit of marijuana and they're like, wow, I finally feel normal again, I feel great, this is the best thing ever and I want to keep doing it.
Speaker 1:And so he, when he started doing that, but you know, things sort of did reflect poorly in terms of like he'd come home later, he'd break curfew, he would, um, leave the jet on at night after cooking ramen and you know, like dangerous stuff, like leave the door unlocked, like you know, potentially like be buying marijuana at the end of our driveway, like who knows who these people were right that he's bringing into our neighborhood full of little kids, right? And so it was just more problematic behaviors, in addition to the complete lack of engagement in school, and then the fear that he was going to get into trouble, you know, for buying or even selling, quite honestly, for fear of that. And so we made the decision to send him to wilderness when he was 16. And it was only for marijuana use, you know, but it was, and you know nicotine, but the marijuana use was what was so problematic, but it was very difficult, as I'm sure it is, for so many families who do that. He was gooned, if you will right, you know, taken very early in the morning across the country and, you know, really blames us to stay for the trauma, if you will, sat in the dirt in Utah for seven weeks and did virtually nothing in the dirt in Utah for seven weeks and did virtually nothing, you know, but assured us that he was like I'm good, I can come back home, blah, blah, blah, and we put him. We brought him back after seven weeks, put him back in the same setting he had been in. He probably should have gone to a therapeutic school.
Speaker 1:We didn't do that and you know, things fell off the car again and you know, and that's been the pattern, the pattern, right, he's never fully invested in the work that he needs to do to understand why he's smoking the marijuana. Like what? Like he, he has told me that he's looking for meaning and purpose and the marijuana makes him feel like he has purpose and gives it his life meaning. It's very sad, oh yeah. And it's been going on for like, literally like eight years, now almost nine, and um, it's to the point where he doesn't know anymore what makes him happy, like. I don't even think he can fully feel like the joy of even just you know, the, or the pleasure of things that he used to enjoy.
Speaker 1:Because his and again Anna Lemke wrote, you know, dopamination and like all this I mean this like explained so perfectly in her book about the way the gremlins, you know, sort of attack your pleasure pain center and you know they overwhelm it such that like he can't feel pleasure anymore, like he doesn't know what makes him happy and he's so lost and the only thing he knows is, like you know, the only thing that motivates him is how is he going to get his next hit of marijuana?
Speaker 1:And the progression that I've seen too and I'm sure you see a lot of families with this as well, because he needs to hide it sometimes and he needs to do it so frequently he has shifted from smoking the flower to the high concentrate THC dab pens.
Speaker 1:I don't even know all of it, I've done a lot of research, but it feels like he has a new device every other week or whatever. That really really worries me. I mean, it's bad enough that he was already smoking the flower, but the concentrate and the high concentrations of thc and the concentrate and the waxes and all that I mean that's where I think you get into really dangerous territory with respect to potential psychotic breaks and schizophrenia and, you know, hospitalizations and it just scares the Jesus out of me really. I mean, you know, I literally live in fear of getting that call that he's and again, sometimes when you talk to him he is so angry, you know, and so lost and like just not who he was. You'll even say I'm not that little boy that you knew, I'm not that person that you thought was so joyful and like he is not. He's a different person.
Speaker 2:Now? Is he living at home or is he out of your house?
Speaker 1:Is he out of your house? He's out of our house. We're sharing the costs of an apartment with him, and that was really a survival mechanism on some level for us, because it was so stressful to have him in our home. We have rules that you know you're not allowed to smoke in or on the property. And he was blowing my tooth he wasn. He wasn't going to blow it though, you know, not at all, no, and you know he'd be growing marijuana plants in our backyard and, like, literally everything he got rid of, he would blow his top, you know, throw a tantrum about us having gotten rid of it even though he knew the rules, and then he would just replace it, right, right, rid of it even though he knew the rules, and then he would just replace it right, right.
Speaker 1:And so it was becoming a health issue, quite honestly, for me in particular, because I'm I work from home and I'm on the front lines with him and it was also becoming, like um, a family dynamic issue, like we were all suffering from the effects of living with him and this tension, to the point where, like we couldn't do it anymore.
Speaker 1:And so, and another thing that another reason we uh went this route of having him move out is. He blamed us, in a way, for his marijuana use and all his problems and we said you know what, like you go, do it your way, like you want to, and let's see how it goes. And it's been almost two years that he's been doing that and you know he we've given him until like a few months from now to sort of try to be on his own, and he can't. He literally is not able to save money, barely able to, you know, feed himself even you know like and it's not for lack of money, it's almost like lack of caring All he cared about are his marijuana plants and getting the marijuana. He would skip meals because that's not a priority. Yep, yep, it's so. It's like so sad.
Speaker 2:Yeah, we hear it all he's so hijacked, yeah, and you, you brought up some major points that again we hear all the time about. The family dynamic like this affects everybody and we know that that is typical of addiction as a disease, that we call it a family disease because, again, it does affect everybody. But with marijuana, you know, and the perception outside of your family and in the world right now that this is safe and it's harmless, and that constant rhetoric, you know, for marijuana being this medical and medicinal product, being this medical and medicinal product, it's just so upsetting and again, like I was saying to you before we started recording that to have a full-time job that I really love and am committed to, but to have a full-time job, because this is a problem among so many families, is so very profoundly sad, you know.
Speaker 1:And you see, it is a big problem. I mean cause I'm, I'm part. I mean, again, I'm sort of a born researcher and I, you know, I ask for support and help and I'm part of an online community where, you know, so many moms join and, um, like, they tell, they disclose early on what the issue is with respect to you know which drug and in this age group, it's almost all high concentrate THC. I mean, it's, it's, it's really ubiquitous. And I'll tell you, as a young mom trying to ask for help, like that attitude you talk about, like, oh well, it's just marijuana or whatever.
Speaker 1:Like even our pediatrician was not exercised about our son doing it and I was begging and pleading for him to talk to our son, hoping that, like, maybe he would kind of break through to him. But he was kind of like, you know, it's no big deal, he's like, if he's gonna do it, maybe he can do. Um, he gave it, like, you know, talked about some volcano vaporizer as opposed to putting smoke in your life, like, and yeah, I was like, oh, my god, we're not even at this stage of harm reduction. I just don't think he should do this at all, you know, and he was 16, right, you know, and you lose control pretty early on with respect to your kids' autonomy. You know, um, I mean, you know we knew, when you went to a wilderness, for example, that that turning 18 was looming. But like you lose control even before that, like you don't get to go into the doctor's office with them after age 13, you know, um, again, I mean that's the thing that I think really is like so shocking is you just try so hard as a parent and you feel like you're foiled at every turn a little bit by, like big.
Speaker 1:You know the big companies. You know, like, again, I thought I was in good shape, not having to worry about cigarettes, and then Jewel shows up. I thought, okay, you know, marijuana is not that big a deal. And then look at it, it's illegalized and it's everywhere and everywhere. I mean it's just, you know, there's a dispensary on every corner in New York, there's in Florida, even though it's only medical, here there's. There are dispensaries everywhere, and the ease with which you can get a medical marijuana card, oh, it's a joke, yeah, completely, completely.
Speaker 2:And you mentioned which kind of leads into my next question you mentioned the pediatrician and other doctors that are just like it's okay. So for many doctors, we know that there is a monetary stake in this for them, you know, to be issuing medical marijuana cards and to be involved in that industry. So that's very sad because it's almost like big pharma right and representing or pushing a certain particular drug. And we supposedly got that in check a little bit, right With the opioid lawsuits and everything. And we got things in check, as you said earlier, with the tobacco industry. And I'll give you an example like yesterday, just yesterday, which was what January 28th for listeners, by the time this gets published to the capital of New York because the New York State Office of Cannabis Management was celebrating a billion dollars in retail sales. So we went there with a mobile billboard that drove around the capital for six hours with messaging that was rotating, messaging, you know, to the effect of addiction, for profit is nothing to celebrate, right and other messaging. And it, yeah, and I went to every single floor of the Capitol, from the ninth floor down, with paperwork copy of our press release, our information, basically shaming the New York State government, you know, and educating them about what they're doing, because in that 20 minute celebration on the steps of Capitol Hall in New York, they just touted the industry and retail sales.
Speaker 2:There was not a single mention of the harms, of the mental health and the physical health issues running rampant across New York and the entire country. You know, and being a New Yorker, like I said, new York City is. It's a disgrace, you know. It's such a shame. It's somewhere I love to be and you can't be there. You can't.
Speaker 2:And even in the rural areas where I live, you can not walk down a block or drive down a block without smelling marijuana. And it's just such. It was such a can of worms that should have never been let out, and while we know you're never going to get those worms back in the can, what can we do to change this and change policies, which is what we try to do at Smart Approaches to Marijuana and Parent Action Network, working with the families and you know little steps. We have to make a difference by maybe getting better regulations and potency caps and things like that, and really something I've always wanted to do is literally call out doctors and legislators that are promoting it still and you know, at some point they have to see and address the harms, you know, and that's why the parents stories are so important.
Speaker 1:Yeah, and it's you know again, it is so common. And even the you know um educational consultant and the other um you know experts I talked to um tell me that you know children like mine, young adults, cognitive development, so when they begin using you know, 14, 15, 16, they are stunting their growth and they, you know, can't get off of it right and without a lot of intervention. And what's worse is they don't think that they need to get off of it. And and the rock bottom that like that whole thing that they talked about, well, you got to let them hit rock bottom. So you know, that's number one. It's really hard to do, right.
Speaker 1:But number two, like that there's not a lot of rock bottom for marijuana use because it's so acceptable and there is a, there's a, there's a displeasant, you know, like an unpleasant, I should say you know sort of set of circumstances, right, like you may not thrive at your job, you may not, you know, have a great social group, because you're just not really thriving, you're not really being the person that you are meant to be, you're not the best version of yourself because of the marijuana use, but it's not so dire that you can't tolerate it because you know that just tolerating it will still get you that marijuana hit.
Speaker 1:That's all you're pursuing. And again, for those who think it's not addictive, they should meet my son, I mean. He literally has said I'm working only to support my marijuana addiction. And this is a kid who doesn't think he has a problem right but will admit that that's his goal, to make sure that he never runs out. And wherever he lives, wherever he works, whatever he does, that issue of access to marijuana and the ease of the use is paramount in every decision he makes. Sad.
Speaker 1:Lost friends over.
Speaker 2:It lost jobs right, a story we hear all the time. And, um, yeah, it's crazy, like even with the anxiety. You know where everyone's like, well, I'm smoking because it helps me with my anxiety. No, it doesn't. Yeah, and then, as you, it makes it worse. Yeah, and, as you mentioned, your son has adhd, right, so what if he would? So many people?
Speaker 2:There's two scenarios with that that are concerning to me. So so many teenagers who are on ADHD meds and then start smoking marijuana, well, that is an issue in itself, because the combination of the, the drug and the marijuana are like the, the prescribed drug and the marijuana, is not a good combination. And then you also have the flip side where so many people say, well, I'm not going to take my ADHD medicine anymore because marijuana works better for me, and obviously it doesn't, you know. So you have two very concerning situations that happen a lot in those cases where people are of legal age more to be able to self-medicate Because I suppose if you're a minor, then a parent luckily does have some control to say, no, you're not going to go off your medicine, you know. And then maybe to some degree you can monitor their marijuana use.
Speaker 2:But as you know, as we all know, kids are very, very sneaky and they're going to do what they're going to do and they're going to get around it, you know. And, of course, access is so easy. No matter what, no matter what state you're in, no matter where you are, you can order it online and get it. There's no protection, absolutely.
Speaker 1:Yeah, and that's what I was sort of saying earlier too is the date at which you lose control in terms of their age is pretty early on, you know. And so I do think that there is a great need to educate the kids young, you know, at an early age about the dangers of this. I mean, you know, like I, again, you know to to say it's really not healthy, it's really not harmless it. These are the stories of kids who have had psychotic breaks, who have become suicidal, who you know get terribly sick, right Like and digestive issues. And you know, these are the kids who drop out of school because you know of their marijuana use Like. These are real stories and again, you know the numbers better than I do, but they're significant and they're only growing down, like the pro side likes to report.
Speaker 2:I mean it is the percentages of cannabis-induced psychosis, of cannabis use disorder, the five-fold increase in the susceptibility of becoming schizophrenic if you're a daily user. Very concerning currently are the incredible amount of poisonings, you know, intentional or not intentional, not just among toddlers, but even among teenagers and young adults, just from over use, you know. And of course, the oh my God, there's something like 750,000 cases nationwide of cannabinoid hypermesis syndrome, the chs, the chronic vomiting syndrome. Yeah, so right. The digestive issues and then, of course, the recent studies of very like a brand new one about the now known cardiovascular risks. Like this is, it's never ending, you know. So how lawmakers can continue to say, oh, we need to legalize to create revenue in our estates and and just ignore. This is so very frustrating. But, um, I really also have to believe, um, and it's always been my mantra that every story and everyone, if you reach one person, every time you speak out, you're making a difference, and and that's why we have to keep doing this collectively.
Speaker 1:I agree. And and that is really hard to do for families, right, Like you know, there's still that stigma attached to addiction, right, and and then there's the added like marijuana, like how can that be addiction, right, you know. And so, and even and this is you know what I have found too like sometimes you feel bad joining these um communities of other mothers of addicts or whatever, because like wow, well, it's not opioids, it's not meth, like you know, my son's not at risk for, like a fentanyl overdose, but, yes, you know he's still that like it is a gateway drug, I fear, you know, and so you know he, not only is it dangerous in and of itself, but it also might lead to the next drug that does, you know, carry a risk of overdose. And and, quite frankly, I feel like I've watched my son like self-destructing he's dying a little each day, to be honest, like you know, maybe he's not overdosing but, like boy, he is a shell of himself, right, and a shell of whom he could have been Right, and you know all those physical ailments that you described and the poisonings and all that like again, like he's so skinny and you know I worry about, even if he's to get through this part of his life and this you know, overcome this addiction and get into recovery, like then there's the risk of what has he already damaged, I mean his lungs, his, his heart, his organs.
Speaker 1:You know, and you hear those stories of families who've lost, you know, children to heart attacks. You know in their thirt because they use drugs in their 20s or their teens or whatever. And you know we're all so into health and like fitness and all this great stuff, and like he can't even avail himself of any of the rewards of, you know, eating healthy or exercise. Like the natural highs, right, because he's just so into the unnatural it's really unnatural high of marijuana, because this is not natural. It's like you know what they're.
Speaker 1:What they're providing is not just a plant with three percent, like you referenced earlier. It's so much more potent, right, and that's where parents have to realize too. Like you know, again, as so many people have said, it's not the marijuana that our peers were smoking in high school, and even not from 10 years ago. It's just every day they're developing more potent strains and, yeah, it's frightening. Again, I mean, you guys do such great work and you know you're, you're really, you know, making a difference. I think, and I agree, you know, if there's anything any one of us can do just by telling our stories and hopefully we'll make a difference. But it's, it's discouraging. You know it's hard to watch when it's your own child.
Speaker 2:Yep, I, it is incredibly hard and I can't imagine, and again, we hear these stories every day, so many, and it's an everyday struggle and has changed the family dynamic of so many families. And you know, and again, like, how hard is it to like tell your own child you can't be here. You know, this is something we struggle with as parents and feel guilty about, you know, and it's it's just heartbreaking because, on the one hand, you don't want to see your child suffering, but you also don't want to see your entire family suffering as well because of one, one child out of three, you know, or whatever your dynamic might be, and and and, like you said, being an adult at this point you don't have all that much control either, so you just have to. You don't know what's going on, you can't really. You know it's very hard to get like a legal precedent over an adult child as it is.
Speaker 1:And, yes, you know and yeah, yeah, go ahead.
Speaker 2:Yeah, well, well, so I was going to ask you during the course of this, while, while he was still a teenager and everything, was there any medical professional whatsoever that did recognize it as cannabis related, whether it be use disorder or psychosis? Um, did you get any formal diagnosis from anyone, or you were not even able to get?
Speaker 1:that far we were, we, we were on it. I mean, we threw everything in the sink at this kid in terms of, you know, experts and programs and, uh, therapy and, um, it was diagnosed as cannabis use disorder. Fortunately there was, you know, no psychosis diagnosis and nothing thus far. But, you know, depression, anxiety, obviously, the ADHD, but yeah, I mean, you know it was recognized as a real issue. But he again, you know, has chosen that over happiness, he's chosen that over almost everything else and he's chosen that over his family, you know, over his friends, over his jobs, over his health, and, you know, chosen not to go on family vacations because, like, he might not be able to bring whatever he wanted to bring. You know, it causes a real, um, anxiety in him, I think, like that big anxiety of, like, where am I going to get my next hit, or whatever it's. Just, like, you know, they think it does ease their anxiety and it actually does, I think, exacerbate it. Um, but uh, it's just again, it's life-changing and I think, for any families out there, um, I think, if I were to do something differently, I would still try to throw everything I could at it to try to help him and, you know, try to lead him away from addiction, certainly, but I don't know that I would have let myself get so consumed by it to the detriment of my other children and to myself and to my husband. You know what I mean.
Speaker 1:Like it was all consuming, because I mean there were times when this child was suicidal, right, you know, and needing to, you know, go into the psychiatric hospital, and there were times when I was researching so much that it was all I could do to just, you know, breathe really like it was.
Speaker 1:It was so. And again you get so caught up in it that you can't sleep at night, you can't eat, you, you know, worry just incessantly, to the point where it does have, um, unfortunately, negative health effects and then, of course, then you can't be there for your family and friends who need you, right, um. So you know, again, that's a really difficult lesson to learn over the years and you just can't help but be really sad. But you have to make a choice every day and try to compartmentalize a little bit, like I don't want to be so sad over this child that I'm not celebrating the successes of my other children or the you know, joy that they bring, you know to the each day right. You know um and or not be available to them to celebrate those things. So that's's really hard.
Speaker 2:Right so so what has sort of helped you get to this point and I want to use the word heal, while it might not be full healing right now, but like to move forward with your family and recognize that you guys are a family dynamic that wants to be happy and healthy, you know, so, what has helped you get to that point? And if it was like these groups and PAN, another thing I want our audience to know is how you came to hear about PAN and how we've helped you speak out and find some resources.
Speaker 1:Yeah, no, absolutely. So just going to like what has helped me again, as I mentioned, like I seek out support, I seek out research, I, you know, want information, like I guess it's sort of a bit of a coping mechanism, right, like you can't control the circumstances but you can at least stay busy and learning more about what's going on. And so I just always did searches and I'm sure that's how I came up across, um, I believe, first smart approaches to marijuana and then pan. So yeah, and you know, I am sort of um an activist by nature, but this is very difficult to be an activist in, just because there are confidentiality issues and things like that. So I would like to be an activist in just because there are confidentiality issues and things like that. So I would like to be more active. That's my nature.
Speaker 1:Again, like I said, like I want to be a doer, but it's hard also to to not have like a success story to tell. You know, like I want to support other families through this, but like I feel like I don't have any answers and I wish I did. Like I'm a solver and a fixer, you know, and I want to fix things and but I again, I don't have any answers, but the um, you guys have helped me quite a bit just by, you know, understanding that like there are people who can be more active than I can and they're fighting this fight, you know, on the grounds and in the halls of the legislatures and in DC, and that gives me hope, right, that you know things will change for the better. I also obviously, you know, sought out like a council of therapists and the council of like other moms who've been through this and the three C's I'm sure parents hear this all the time Like you know what we didn't, I didn't cause it, I can't control it and I can't cure it.
Speaker 1:Like I have learned the hard way over these. You know, eight years or so, that like you feel terribly guilty Cause, like he'll, they'll blame you for their circumstances, right, their child, your child will. It's always the mom's fault and you know you want to control it. But you learn pretty early on, as I said, even you know in the early years of teen, teenagehood, that you can't control it and then you really can't cure it. Right, they have to want to make a change and no matter how I can offer options, but if he doesn't grab it, that like there's not much I can do.
Speaker 1:And so after years of like failing, I guess, essentially to try to cure it and try to make a difference, and you kind of kind of you just sort of give up. You don't give up entirely, you don't give up on your child, but you kind of have a better picture of the reality, that like, and you learn to live with the sadness. Quite honestly, you know, you learn to go on vacation with your other two kids and your husband and have fun even though he's not there. Like he used to look at the pictures from vacation and be sad that he, he wasn't there, and there's still that, but like that's just sort of the more normal thing. Now, sadly, you know, and there were many invocations that he ruined right because of the drug use and being so belligerent and difficult, and again, sadly, the drug does sort of change who they are. It's the addiction that changes who they are and you just pray that that person that you knew comes back.
Speaker 2:Right, can you do me a favor and repeat those three C's, because I think that's a wonderful message again, and unique to this session for sure.
Speaker 1:So repeat those for us, sure, and I repeat them to myself every day. So, yeah, so I didn't cause it, I can't control it and I can't cure it. Right, because, as moms like, we kind of feel like we have, you know, more agency, that we like oh my God, it's our fault. We want to control situations because we don't want to see our child sad or unhealthy or upset or whatever, and you just want to make it better.
Speaker 2:Yeah.
Speaker 1:And you can't.
Speaker 2:Yeah Well, I think that the three C's is a perfect message to leave our parents with. I really appreciate you bringing that up and saying those raise their voices a little more outwardly. But I don't. I want to make clear that any advocacy you and any parent does with PAN is important, and that is why we are able to offer so many different experiences where you do get to exercise that privilege of advocating and also maintaining your confidentiality if necessary. So, like, one of the greatest forms of advocacy for that are our direct advocacy campaigns, because while your name and address is on that going to the legislator, they're the only ones who see that. You know so, and you don't have to know the science or the data you, we have that all set for you. You just have to hit, click and send, you know, and, and many of them do have a spot for you to put your own message and and so you can add that in there as well. But again, that's pretty confidential, you know. And then I know you've desperately wanted to join us for the Hill Day, but there'll be plenty more and the Hill Days I would consider when you're in those appointments.
Speaker 2:I look at that as confidential as well, because, and and also so profound because you're literally in a scheduled appointment behind closed doors with an actual legislator, um, from generally from your state as well as a few others, and there you get to tell your story and, yeah, they, they may know your name and hear it, but it doesn't leave that office and it has a profound effect on them, you know. And then, of course, at the middle day itself, when you're meeting with the other parents and you share your stories, you do not feel alone because you're hearing and meeting so many other parents and it's a really beautiful part of the conference is being able to meet those people. So, while you weren't able to make this one, there will be other opportunities and there's certainly plenty of opportunity for you to advocate and raise your voice and maintain your son's privacy and safety.
Speaker 1:I'm looking forward to that. I mean, I always jump at the chance to you know, when you have the form letters and stuff like that, and jump in and write the little message. And um, again, was looking forward to the hill and not able to make it for other reasons, but, um, again, like I wish I could shout this to the mountaintops and I wish I had a, you know, a success story to tell, and maybe someday we will, you know, but it is so important, I do believe, to you know that also, that camaraderie, right, to make us all realize that, like it's, you know, this happens to every, every, you know, to families from every walk of life. Absolutely, you know, it's nothing right and it's so ubiquitous and, um, and there's a really dire need for change.
Speaker 1:Um, because, again, you know, our children, like my son, are losing years of their life to marijuana, right, right, and it's, it's so, so sad and, um, I don't think that you know that's what anyone envisioned for their child, right, Um, and yet it happens, it really a lot of. It's so beyond our control and we need the help of legislators. Um, not people celebrating billions of dollars in retail sales, right? Not that, no, I mean that's yeah. We need them instead to protect our children.
Speaker 2:We do, we do Well. Thank you so much, Kathy. Is there anything you'd like to add?
Speaker 1:No, no, I think we covered a lot of ground. No, no, I think we covered a lot of ground. And you know again, um, you know, just, to the families out there who are, um dealing with this, you know, my advice is to, you know, join organizations like pan and, you know, empower yourself, um to learn more and try and realize that you're not alone. And there are people out there who are on your team and, you know, are here to help and it just, it helps. I mean, it's a difficult thing to go through, but it certainly helps to know that you know there are other people who recognize your pain and suffering and want to make things better.
Speaker 2:Right, well, thank you. Thank you so much for sharing your story. I know it's not always easy and, as we've said, the more we bring awareness to this issue, the harder it's going to be for our lawmakers to ignore the facts and at some point, hopefully, they'll put public health and wellness before profits. I hope so. Also, uh, please you know um listeners continue to tune into our future episodes of the fortitude podcast. If you are interested in telling your story on the podcast, please, uh, reach out to me at Chrissy at learn about samorg, or pan at learn about samorg. And uh. Lastly, I want to remind our listeners that if you want to learn more about drug policy issues, please sign up to receive the drug report and or tune into the drug report podcast, which is hosted by our incredible EVP, luke Niferados. And I want to remind our listeners that next week, on February 6th and 7th, we will be hosting the SAM Summit in Washington DC, so there's still time to sign on to that.
Speaker 2:And again, kathy, thank you so much for sharing your story and making the time to be here tonight. I know there's a lot on your plate and we look forward to advocating with you more in the future. Everyone, please keep reading our newsletter and coming joining our webinar series. We are having a webinar tomorrow night actually on withdrawal from marijuana, and it's a pretty popular topic. A lot of our listeners are very interested in learning more about that, so it would be a good webinar for you to join. If you haven't already seen those invitations, check your mailboxes and again. Thank you, kathy. You're're welcome. We really appreciate your time and everyone out there. Just keep fighting the good fight and remember together we do make a difference.