Fortitude: Turning Tragedy into Action
A podcast by the Parent Action Network (PAN), a division of Smart Approaches to Marijuana (SAM), dedicated to amplifying the voices of parents whose lives have been devastated by the harmful effects of marijuana. Each episode features personal interviews with parents sharing their heart-wrenching stories of loss, addiction, and the impact on their families. Through these powerful narratives, PAN aims to educate, inspire, and mobilize listeners to take action against the widespread dangers of marijuana use.
Fortitude: Turning Tragedy into Action
From Psychosis to Recovery: An Illinois Mom's Mission to Educate Others on the Dangers of Today's High Potency THC
The dangers of today's high-potency marijuana remain largely hidden from public awareness despite mounting evidence of its devastating mental health impacts. Illinois mom, Winnie's world shattered when her teenage son developed cannabis-induced psychosis and a diagnosis of schizophrenia after using high-potency THC vape products—a nightmare she never saw coming.
Winnie shares her family's journey from normalcy to chaos with raw honesty and vulnerability. Before marijuana entered their lives, she had four thriving children and held the common belief that legalization would make cannabis safer through regulation. This misconception left her family wholly unprepared for what followed. When her 17-year-old son began using concentrated THC products, initial signs of trouble—irritability, social problems, strange beliefs—were easily mistaken for typical teenage stress, especially during pandemic isolation.
The situation escalated rapidly. Multiple hospitalizations for psychosis couldn't prevent the most devastating incident: following THC use, her son experienced profound delusions that devils were pursuing his soul. In desperation, he jumped from a train bridge, miraculously surviving but requiring facial reconstruction surgery. This moment crystallized Winnie's understanding that THC hadn't merely triggered underlying conditions—it had directly caused her son's schizophrenia. "I distinctly remember the moment that I realized THC wasn't just a risk factor," she explains. "THC caused my son's psychosis."
Though the recovery journey remains challenging, Winnie's story offers genuine hope. A long-acting injectable anti-psychotic medication has proven life-saving, and her son continues to improve with proper treatment and THC avoidance. Finding support through parent networks has been equally vital, connecting her with others who truly understand this experience and providing opportunities for meaningful advocacy.
For families currently navigating similar situations, Winnie offers powerful guidance: don't lose hope, actively research treatment options, and consider reading "I'm Not Sick and I Don't Need Help" by Dr. Amador, whose LEAP communication method helped rebuild trust with her son. Her message resonates with the podcast's name—Fortitude—exemplifying the courage parents must summon when facing these devastating circumstances.
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Greetings listeners. It's Chrissy Groenwegen, director of the Parent Action Network, back for another episode of the Fortitude Podcast, and we've been making a real effort to get a lot of these stories out and posting them on legislative social media, because we really need to send a message that today's marijuana is not good for anyone. And today I have a very special guest with me, winnie Stevenson, from Illinois, and Winnie and I go way back. I do believe that Winnie was the first parent I had the pleasure of meeting in person almost two and a half years ago back at Laura Stack's Johnny's Ambassadors Conference. So, winnie, thank you so much for being here today. I'm so happy to have you.
Speaker 1:Thank you for having me on. I'm glad to be here and glad to talk with you.
Speaker 2:So we're going to jump right into it and, as always, I like to learn a little bit about what your life was like before marijuana became a factor in your story sure, absolutely so.
Speaker 1:I have four children. I was divorced and remarried when my kids were pretty young. So my husband and I, you know, raised our kids. My husband came into their lives when my youngest were two and when we look back we just shake our our heads at how much we took things for granted. We just had such a smooth parenting journey Obviously the general typical challenges of parenting, but just really healthy kids, active kids, smart kids, did well in school, sports, volunteering, you know, being part of the community. So we had just a really smooth I mean really, especially looking back in retrospect a really, really smooth parenting journey until this situation arose for us.
Speaker 2:Wow, and we hear that all the time. And can you also tell me a little bit about what your stance was on marijuana legalization?
Speaker 1:People who use marijuana and, you know, didn't think of it as super dangerous. I thought that if we legalize marijuana it'll be regulated, so it will be safer. And I also thought if we make it legal that will kind of undermine the illegal drug trade and obviously in retrospect both of those things were incredibly inaccurate.
Speaker 2:In retrospect, both of those things were incredibly inaccurate, but yeah, when it was becoming legal only.
Speaker 1:But in regard to the you know, medicinal aspect, I was vaguely aware that you know marijuana was used in some medications for cancer patients and you know some really small, obscure uses. I wasn't super familiar with the pharmaceutical uses of marijuana.
Speaker 2:As many aren't, you know, and so that's become like a talking point that, yes, there are medicines that are marijuana, but the medical market that was being touted by the for profit industry was not that. But so many people just didn't understand that and were absolutely buying into the rhetoric that this would do all the things you just mentioned.
Speaker 2:So, that is why I think so many parents are so angry that they bought into the lies and now are experiencing the harms how that happened. So what happened with your son and how this kind of played out like what you first started noticing and then when the realization came that this might be marijuana, yeah, absolutely.
Speaker 1:So. When it first happened I was aware that it was related to marijuana, because when he was first hospitalized and he was released from the hospital they said absolutely no marijuana use, no THC products whatsoever, keep him away from marijuana. So we were aware like pretty much right away that THC was had, you know, a connection with psychosis and schizophrenia. And you know I'm the type of person that when I'm confronted with a problem I want to like research, research, research and find out everything I can. So of course, you know, all of my free time was like reading medical journals and everything I could find on the internet, and so I did come across a lot related showing the connection between THC and psychosis and psychotic disorders like schizophrenia. But I distinctly remember the moment that I realized THC wasn't just a risk factor.
Speaker 1:Thc caused my son's psychosis and caused my son's schizophrenia diagnosis, and that was an article I read in Tablet magazine called how Weed Became the New Oxycontin. And I read that article one night and it was just bam, it just hit me. All the different puzzle pieces kind of came together that this isn't just THC is not just exacerbating things, thc is not just contributing, it's not just increasing the risk. Thc caused this and that really shook me and I remember, just like for a week I was just so upset and so distraught and it just really shook me to realize that, because I mean, obviously, you know, having a child who experiences psychosis and experiences schizophrenia is devastating in and of itself, but then like to realize that it was caused by THC, by marijuana, something that almost all people think is relatively harmless. That was really difficult for me.
Speaker 2:Can you tell me how old your son was when his use began and how that use began? Was it recreationally? Was it for medical use? How did you find out he was using it? And again, how old was he when this began?
Speaker 1:It was definitely not for medical use. He was in high school, he was about 17. And it was just with friends and I actually found out because his brother came to me and he was like Mom, he showed me and he told me that he's using. So of course my husband and I confronted my son, who was using, about this and you know, kind of had the talk with him that that time we had no idea about anything about the new marijuana, we had no idea about potency, we had no idea about vaping. I mean it's horrible just how ignorant and uneducated we were about the situation.
Speaker 2:Right, and when you're two very educated people again, this whole nation was basically lied to and parents feel guilt and shame, and they really do not need to own that guilt or shame. This is on an industry that is preying on our kids you know, absolutely.
Speaker 2:And again, I know your story, but I'm wondering if you would mind sharing a little bit about how this ultimately played out for your son and the situation that led you to seek even more help and find other resources, like PAN, but particularly like what your poor son endured and how that affected your family so, like I mentioned, it was toward the end of high school that he started using and unbeknownst to us he was using the really high potency vapes.
Speaker 1:That was like his form of thc of choice that he used and I think just used it more and more frequently and unfortunately, this was also like when he graduated. It was kind of like the height of the pandemic. So when he went off to college, very isolated in a lot of ways, like everybody had their own single dorm room, you know. So I think that was just not a good situation to have someone on their own. But as he was using, I would say some of the first symptoms we saw were irritability, kind of like don't talk to me, you know that kind of stuff.
Speaker 1:And problems with his friends, where he just having arguments with his friends and then like being estranged from friends, and you know it was the end of high school and nowadays there's so much stress and pressure on teens and it was the pandemic and he was, you know, getting ready to graduate and go to college, so a lot of these things. At that time we thought, okay, teenage moodiness and stress and pandemic, and we no way shape or form connected it to any type of drug use and you know we also didn't realize how much he was continuing to use. So he went off to college and, sure enough, the first time he came home to visit we saw some pretty bizarre behavior. He was just expressing some odd beliefs about crystals and about the matrix and just that.
Speaker 1:He had these supernatural powers and you know, we were growing increasingly worried and then he went back to college. He didn't want to get any help, he didn't want to talk to a therapist, he didn't want to go talk to his primary care doctor. He refused and he was an adult, so we couldn't get him to do it. So he went back to college and I would say over the next year just pretty rapidly deteriorated and eventually at the point where he had to be hospitalized, he was just completely psychotic, just out of his mind, ranting, pacing. You know, like a stranger to us, like you just can't get through to the person who's in psychosis. There's no talking them out of their beliefs or their fears or their anger. So he was hospitalized Pretty quickly.
Speaker 1:After that he was diagnosed with schizophrenia and you know, like I said before, once he was released from the hospital they were like no THC, no THC. So we did fairly well on that. We didn't give him any money, we didn't allow him any access to money and we supervised him pretty well. But he was able to get his hands on marijuana. After that he was hospitalized a second time and then the last time he was hospitalized was when he used some high potency THC.
Speaker 1:He went into a deep, deep psychosis, absolutely terrified. He believed devils were after his soul. There's nothing we can do to calm him down or help him. We tried to get him to go to sleep. It was the middle of the night. And we tried to get him to go to sleep, it was the middle of the night. He eventually went out, which wasn't totally odd. He often would go walk the streets at night and he always would come back. But this time he went out and he was looking for a way to kill himself, because he believed that by killing himself that would allow him to go to heaven, before the devils came and took his soul. So, um, he went up to a train bridge and, um and jumped. Um, my husband and I got a call from the police department around three o'clock in the morning. They said, I quote your son's in pretty bad shape and told us to go to the emergency room. So you know, in pretty bad shape, what the heck is happening to a parent.
Speaker 2:Right.
Speaker 1:Like we thought he might be dead or about to die, or we didn't have any clue, any clue what had happened. So, of course, we rushed to the emergency room and he he survived, very fortunately, and did not suffer any brain damage, did not suffer any type of, um you know, damage to his spinal cord or anything but his. His face was crushed. Um, they had to rebuild the one side of his face and he has a plate in his face. He had to have his jaw wired shut for two months, among some other minor injuries like a broken bone in his foot and some other things, but the bulk of the damage was on his face. So since then we have been able to get him on a long acting injectable antipsychotic and we've been able to, for the most part, keep him off of THC and he's he's just been doing better and better. So we're we're super fortunate.
Speaker 2:Yep, and I've had the pleasure of meeting him, so I can attest to the fact of what a lovely young man he is. So I'm so glad he's continuing to do well and that story is just so harrowing. I mean, he is so lucky to be alive. I can't even imagine what that put not just you and your husband through, but the rest of your kids, I mean they. This just must've been horrible for everyone. You know, and that's something that we don't talk about a lot is the siblings and how this. You know, we say that this affects the whole family but, like we, we don't often hear from the siblings and that's something that Pan is working on hearing more sibling, sibling points of view. You know, because it's just. I just can't even imagine what your families go through.
Speaker 2:So once he came out of the hospital and obviously now you've known for a while this is marijuana you got him on it. Would you mind sharing the name of the antipsychotic? Is this something that parents that speak with each other in these networks of support talk about or recommend to each other?
Speaker 1:Yes, so the long-acting injectable that he's on is Abilify, and it has been absolutely an drug, an amazing treatment for my son. It enabled us to get ahead of the psychosis and get the psychosis under control, which is absolutely life-saving, without a doubt. It's life-saving but it's not without side effects. Saving but it's not without side effects. And one of the major side effects that we have noticed is the impulsive behaviors. So you know, impulsivity to play video games, impulsivity to use nicotine, to use alcohol, to binge on food shopping We've seen it all. It's really pretty remarkable. So that's something that we're working with his doctor. We've done a dose reduction for that and that's. We're just kind of seeing how that's going to play out. But that, and then you know some disruption of sleep. So I do think it's important to talk about. You know, when we talk about drugs. There's so many drugs out there that are lifesaving and that just help our lives so much. But drugs are not without side effects, absolutely.
Speaker 1:And that's an important part of like the struggles that we deal with as parents.
Speaker 2:Right, which is such a good point that you bring up, because so many people will say well, you know, opioids have so many side effects. So that's why I'm going to use marijuana, because it's natural. But meanwhile, number one we don't even understand the interactions between marijuana and other drugs that you may or may not be on. That may be for mental health problems or just other physical problems. Right, so many of us are on medications to control blood pressure, to control cholesterol. You just have no idea about how these medications work with marijuana. And then, of course, as you said, they have side effects within themselves that we have to be aware of, and we don't know how marijuana stays in your system a long time. So how long before you're off marijuana? So, yes, those are so many factors and it's so important to recognize that, while helpful, all medications have side effects. But it's also a testament to the fact that most prescribed medicine well, all prescribed medicine is regulated under the FDA and has been studied, and while, yes, there's always new studies coming out and we find out that high amounts of opioids might not be a good thing, that has been regulated to the point that there's there's use information, contraindication information. And, to top it off. You are encouraged to try dealing with your pain with just Tylenol or ibuprofen. You can manage the pain in other ways besides having to rely on that.
Speaker 2:I just think you made a very important point. So we're lucky that he is doing well. You have help for him. You have recognized diagnosis that this was due to marijuana, and so then you're dealing with all that, you're working towards it. You're the kind of person that continues to educate yourself. How did you start to become aware of PAN and the other helping type organizations? I don't remember if you knew PAN first, or Johnny's Ambassadors or any other network, so how did you start to find that help through these support and awareness groups?
Speaker 1:Yeah, yeah. So, like I mentioned, I was on the internet all the time just like reading, research and looking for these organizations. I found Johnny's Ambassadors. I don't remember if I found Johnny's Ambassadors first or Sam first, but first I found Sam and then that led me to find Pan. And it's just been wonderful Like the parent community around the country has just been so supportive. You know who else are you going to find, who understands what cannabis-induced psychosis is, like the ordinary person you find on the street, who has not experienced it in their family. They have no clue what a family goes through, the pain, the suffering, just the horror that the family goes through with this cannabis-induced psychosis. So the parent community has just been absolutely wonderful and it's also great to just know you know that kind of feeling like I'm not the only one.
Speaker 2:Right and Pan considers ourselves connectors. So when Laura has her curriculum and she has her support group for the CIP parents, and then when a parent is at a point where we all can do education and awareness and we all do in different ways but when a parent comes to Laura and says I'm angry and I've had enough of this and I want to talk to legislators about this, laura will connect them with Pan because they're not going to be able to do that, and so I think that's a really good way to do it. One of our fortes here is the ability to speak directly with legislators, because of our connections with the Office of National Drug Control Policy and government affairs team are located in DC and Jordan Davidson, our government affairs director, is on Capitol Hill every day, all day. That's what he does, and so we ready parents and, again, we put no pressure on any parent.
Speaker 2:We have so many opportunities for advocacy at the federal, state and local levels and we provide parents with the resources to tell their stories effectively and to hopefully advocate for, in states where legalization has happened already, for better policies that aim to protect our youth and young adults and all people using marijuana, and then in states where it isn't legal.
Speaker 2:We work to keep it that way with state officials and we've been successful in places like Florida still not legal recreationally and a couple of other states. It's dwindling, but we are working hard to still continue to fight legalization and so we're lucky to have you, winnie, because Winnie has been such a strong advocate for us, participates in almost every opportunity we make it ask for From way back when we were encouraging the NCAA to keep marijuana on the controlled substance list, and straight through to today where we're doing 420 videos to counter the narrative that wow, let's celebrate marijuana, and participating in this podcast to create awareness across the country and, you know, make legislators more aware. So thank you so much for all you do to support us. We really appreciate that.
Speaker 1:Yeah, I just I can attest to everything that you've mentioned.
Speaker 1:I completely agree, like I haven't felt pressure per se to participate in anything, but I have been invited and I've been so happy to be invited into so many different venues and on so many different like aspects of this topic.
Speaker 1:You know, when this happened to my family and I kind of like had had space and time to understand it and grapple with it and accept it, I got it in my head. I will talk to anyone who will listen, because I truly, truly, truly believe if I had known back then what I know now, our story would have been so different. And there is just so much misinformation about marijuana, there's so much lack of information about the dangers of THC that I just feel like an obligation, really like a moral obligation, to talk to in as many places and spaces as I can because it can save lives. I truly believe that educating people and sharing my story will help to save lives. So I'm super, super, super grateful for Pan for inviting me and connecting me, and it's been helpful for me also. It makes me feel good that I'm able to do something at least.
Speaker 2:Right, Right. And I guess that kind of answers the next question, which was how has this helped you move forward? So I think it's so important and also I think your story is a story of hope as well. So it's not just helping everyone. It's a story of hope because you're one of the lucky ones, your son is one of the lucky ones where they are in recovery and doing better.
Speaker 2:Because, of course, there's so many different sides to this story. We have the families who have lost their loved ones right Lorstack is the perfect example the Bacchuses there are so many others out there that have lost their son, and that puts them in an almost different position. They're able to use their son's full name, they're able to advocate and educate a little more readily, because they can't change what's already happened. And then there's those which is the biggest percentage those who are still in this struggle. We have so many parents across the country, so many parents in this network, and we hear more and more stories every week.
Speaker 2:I am not lying when I tell our audience here that Bronwyn and I who is Pan's project coordinator we listen to at least at the very minimum one story a week in our work here at Pan. We both work full time. We have a lot of things going on, but we spend a lot of our time interviewing new families, new parents and sometimes those, like former users even that have stories about the harms that this has caused them. So that says a lot in itself. And then, thirdly, we have those of you that are the stories of hope that have been lucky enough to find recovery for your loved ones, for your children, and be able to tell that story, which is really important in giving hope to other families. Is there something you would like to tell any of our other parents and families listening to help them in their journey?
Speaker 1:their journey. Sure, I would definitely start with don't lose hope. It can be really dark and feel hopeless when you have a loved one who's struggling with psychosis and who is struggling with addiction. I mean just the extent to which it impacts me as a parent, and then you know the rest of our family, it's just. I mean it just can be completely devastating. But you know, don't lose hope, because there is hope, there's a community out there that can support you.
Speaker 1:I will also say I've come to realize the medical community does not have all the answers on this. The medical community, I think, has come a ways in understanding cannabis-induced psychosis and sort of the treatment, and now the long-term treatment is kind of like where we're at. But I have definitely, as a parent, done a lot of research because nobody's going to care about my kid as much as I do. Right Like I'm, I have the most investment, more so than any of the medical professionals that we would come across Right. So I've done a lot to like bring things to my son's doctor and therapist and to advocate for him, and I do believe it's made a difference. So I think that's important for parents to think about, a book that I always recommend when I'm talking to parents in the situation is I'm Not Sick and I Don't Need Help.
Speaker 1:By Dr Amador when we were at the very beginning and my son was in psychosis. The LEAP method it's a way of communicating, a method for communicating. The LEAP method it's a way of communicating, a method for communicating helped tremendously in building back trust, because you know the average person. We don't know how to talk to someone in psychosis, so a lot of trust is kind of undermined when we're sitting there trying to like talk them out of their delusions, right. And so after such a long time of that, a lot of the trust had been undermined, and using the LEAP method helped us to build that trust and then to leverage our relationship, the connection, the love, the care, and I believe that was super instrumental in my son's recovery. So I always recommend that book. That's fantastic.
Speaker 2:Maybe we'll be able to link that to this episode. Don't forget, call this podcast Fortitude, because to me there just is no better word to describe all of the parents I mean. You are all so brave and show such courage in the face of grief and adversity, and that's what fortitude is. So thank you. Thank you, winnie, so much for sharing your story. I know it's very hard to talk about these stories, even when we are at a point of recovery and hope, but I really appreciate you taking the time from your schedule and your summer to share your story with us and I wish your son continued success in his recovery. And again, I thank you for everything you do for and with Pan and to support other families and raise awareness. So thank you so much for being here with us.
Speaker 1:Thank you, chrissy, and thank you again for having me on the podcast. I appreciate the opportunity.
Speaker 2:It's my pleasure and I just want to remind our listeners that I hope each of these episodes leaves you with a profound understanding of the urgent need for awareness, better regulations and the power of community support that is so important in addressing the challenges posed by today's marijuana products. So keep listening to future episodes and we look forward to sharing more with you. Thank you.