Fortitude: Turning Tragedy into Action

Two Kids, Twenty-Eight Stays, And A Family That Refused To Give Up

• PAN & SAM • Season 2 • Episode 17

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A quiet family routine shattered the night their son came home after landing his first job and started saying things that made no sense. By dinner, the question was terrifyingly simple: aneurysm or psychosis? What followed wasn’t a single event but a cascade—another son in crisis two months later, more than two dozen hospitalizations, and years of residential care across multiple states. Through their story, we unpack the difference between legacy marijuana and today’s high-THC concentrates, why dab pens and wax evade detection, and how cannabis-induced psychosis can erase the idea of a “rock bottom.”

We talk frankly with Dave and Sarah about costs most headlines ignore: emptied retirement accounts, endless clinical bills, and the emotional tax on siblings. The family shares what finally moved the needle—abstinence, readiness, and the right medication. Clozapine, paired with steady support, helped one son reach a year of sobriety and stability with a bipolar diagnosis now in the mix. Alongside treatment details, we chart the networks that shorten the learning curve. Johnny’s Ambassadors offered validation and resources; SAM’s Parent Action Network turned lived experience into policy impact, helping stall a recreational bill in Pennsylvania by centering real-world harms and healthcare costs.

We also tackle loophole markets like delta-8, normalization in convenience stores, and the gap between “medical” branding and true medical evidence. Additionally, Dave, an army veteran calls out the aggressive marketing of high-THC products for PTSD, warning that numbing pain can derail real care. If you’re navigating high-THC risks, seeking help for a loved one, or ready to move from grief to action, this conversation offers hard-won tools: where to start, what questions to ask, and how to tell your story so lawmakers listen. Subscribe, share with someone who needs it, and contact Parent Action Network if your interested in joining the fight!

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SPEAKER_02:

Greetings, listeners. It's Chrissy Groenwegen back for another episode of the Fortitude Podcast. Parent Action Network is the grassroots division of Smart Approaches to Marijuana, dedicated to amplifying the voices of families whose lives have been devastated by the harmful effects of marijuana. Thank you for joining me for another episode. Today, Dave and Sarah Huddock from Pennsylvania are here with another very impactful story. Dave and Sarah, thank you so much for making the time to be here. Our pleasure.

SPEAKER_03:

Thanks for having us.

SPEAKER_02:

For sure.

SPEAKER_00:

I mean, we didn't know there's any difference between the marijuana from the 70s and 80s or even the 60s to what kids are getting a hold of now. We have a large family. We have seven kids. One marriage. No real reason for that. Just we really enjoyed our life. We had our kids in a variety of sports and activities. We have a great extended family. Spent a lot of time with all of our kids. And we thought we had a really great life. We were looking forward to every next step and had no idea what was coming down the path.

SPEAKER_03:

I mean, our oldest had uh just got into CMU. Uh, we were doing a lot of international traveling. We were just having great vacations and great family time, and then it's just hit us out of nowhere. And our stance on marijuana before that, I mean, we thought it was no big deal. We thought, you know, if it's if some people want to smoke it, go ahead and smoke it. But we had no idea it was now a drug of proportions to something like crack, where these kids are gonna get hooked on it. And when we first found out our son was using it, we looked at each other and it was almost like a rite of passion. I mean, a passage that you know, a teenager's gonna try different things. Uh, they'll they'll work themselves out of it. And you know, we we definitely said no doing it, uh, but we just didn't know the extent that he was already hooked and uh addicted to the high THC wax and all the other dab pens and everything else, and it was just too late. He had a psychotic break, and that was it.

unknown:

Yeah.

SPEAKER_02:

As many might know, medical marijuana is legalized in Pennsylvania, but recreational is still not legalized. But of course, all of the loophole products are all over Pennsylvania. And so I do want to touch a little bit and let people know before we continue that given that was going on, Dave and Sarah joined myself and other parents on Capitol Hill in Pennsylvania to fight a bill that had been presented to Congress to legalize recreational marijuana. And thanks to their work and their stories, that bill did not pass. But this is still a very big issue and a problem looming in Pennsylvania, which is why hearing from Pennsylvania families remains very important. So, like all parents, as Dave just expressed, yeah, we we expect that our kids might be using as a rite of passage. We're going to discipline the same way we would if we caught them with alcohol. And we almost expect this, and we we just discipline. But I don't think there's any of us in, there's not a parent I know, not even myself, that could have ever imagined that these products would cause the problems that they're causing. So I'd like to go back now to your story and hear a little bit about exactly what culminated and how one of your children started using, how you found out and what you've been through.

SPEAKER_00:

So our first son, we have more than one son that's happened to. Um our third, he, you know, we found the products that, you know, the marijuana paraphernalia, maybe in November, and you know, thought that was the end of it. You know, behaved normal. He was like a great, he still is a great kid, you know, tons of friends, very social, just a great friend group. And when we found it, you know, flash forward, he turned 18 in January. And soon after that, it was like a light switch. He had a psychotic break. We had we didn't know that's what it was at the time. And he went to school that morning. He actually got his first job that day. By dinner time, something seemed a little off. And he came to Dave and I and said some really crazy things. And we thought, is he having like a brain aneurysm? Like we had no idea what this was. There was no lead up, there was nothing to tell us that this was coming.

SPEAKER_03:

He got into it with a couple uh team players on the lacrosse team. They were getting it from his grandmother, who had a medical marijuana card. So they were using medical marijuana, the high THC.

SPEAKER_00:

Yeah, all the strong stuff, the dab pens and um the waxes, whatever they could get. And the grandparent didn't care. You know, she thought it was not a big deal. And our son really liked the really strong stuff. Um I mean, we'd had no idea that you could become addicted to it. This was all things we have found out after.

SPEAKER_03:

And then we had our second son who was actually doing uh smoking it with him, who had his uh psychotic break two months after. Um his brother having it, you would think he would want to stop, but he was already hooked too.

SPEAKER_00:

He was But we really didn't know for sure what was going on even that early on, to be honest with you. You know, they said some, you know, some cannabis induced psychosis, but then they also put, you know, it could be gas station things he's getting a hold of that's causing this. We really didn't know at first, but when it happened to his brother, we kind of put it all together and then we started really researching, but we had never heard anything about this before.

SPEAKER_03:

They were um I I guess in medical marijuana terms, what 400 doses in a in a dab pen they were doing in a day. So something that should last a whole month. Um they were they were through it in a day.

SPEAKER_00:

And there's no smell to it, there's no way of knowing. It's not like the marijuana you think of, you're gonna smell it. No, it was it you couldn't tell. You had no idea.

SPEAKER_02:

Right. Right. And you have a large family, seven kids, right? So now you have two exhibiting unusual behaviors, and and this doesn't just affect you as a couple, this affects your whole family and the other kids who you're a very close-knit family, you know, had a did a lot of things together, had a lot of fun, a really beautiful life. And now you have two out of seven kids uh in the mix acting strangely. So that must have had quite an effect on the other siblings as well. Yeah, it did.

SPEAKER_03:

It did. But, you know, for the past six years, um, we have had them at treatment centers out of the state. Financially, we've been paying that bill and kept them away from our other kids to go through this. But uh, you know, witness a lot.

SPEAKER_00:

There are police here, there were ambulances here, and it wasn't like it was a one-time deal. It took a long time to really. I mean, we're still in it. So it's not like I don't know if we'll ever be out of it, so to speak. Um, the two are doing okay right now, and you know, hopefully this will be a time where they continue going forward. But through this time, we've had over 25 hospitalizations, maybe maybe closer to 28 um residential programs between the two of them. I mean, that's and it's about six and a half years that this has been going on.

SPEAKER_03:

We have them we've had them everywhere from Southern California, some of the best, you know, beach uh resort uh recovery centers, Florida, Utah, up in the mountains. We've been all over the country. And um it's sad to say, but Pennsylvania is way behind. Yeah. So when this is gonna hit hard here in Pennsylvania, I don't know what people are gonna do. They're just you know, the state doesn't have the funding or anything else to cover it. Um, you know, if they don't have the means like we've had to try to help our boys, I just don't know what people are gonna do here.

SPEAKER_00:

For sure. I mean, there is no bottom to it. You know, like they talk about alcoholics, you they hit a bottom, rock bottom. With this, I mean, it's their brain. When our kids have been in psychosis, they have no idea what's really going on. I mean, they you can't rationalize, you can't do anything. It's time and medication, and that's in keeping them safe in a hospital or a program. And even at home, there's no way to police it. We cannot do it. And believe me, we had cameras, we had, we're both home. And I mean, we had every resource to try to do that, and it's just impossible.

SPEAKER_02:

Right. And and let's talk about that a little bit because you may you you said some things that like really resonate with me and so many of our parents. So you talk about, first of all, the financial burden, right? So we're always, of course, talking about the mental health and even the physical health effect burdens of this, but also the burdens financially, and you guys are another example of that. I will never forget when Dave called me almost two years ago and told me about your situation and talked about how you had to empty an entire retirement savings. So, you know, a couple of things about this addiction and addiction in general is that it does not discriminate. This can happen to anyone. And when it does, there are some people who may have the resources for a little while, but even the well-to-do cannot afford to continually fund this because, as you said, you're here, you're there, you're dealing with it for endless years. And this is just using up all your finances, and you have other kids and responsibilities as well. So that burden is just unbelievable to me and goes on the wayside of the whole conversation when legislators are talking about legalizing. And then, Dave, as you said, even if there was a remote amount of truth to their claim that this would create state revenues, they don't think for one second, which we know that that's a claim, that that's not true. We all know that. But even when they try to claim that, what they're forgetting about are the costs to treatment and recovery and ongoing care, that, as you guys know, and so many other parents, is endless sometimes forever, you know. And we we of course hope for the best, but there doesn't seem to be an end in sight.

SPEAKER_03:

If if their family doesn't have the means, they'll either be in jail or they'll be dead. That's that's where they're at. We're living homeless on the street until something happens to them.

SPEAKER_00:

It's it's true. I mean, there's no way around it. I mean, believe me, we'd rather be taking trips and redoing our house. That'll never happen. That is it's that, or keep your kids alive, and it really is keeping your kids alive. It's not we want to give them the best of the best, and it now it is just keep them alive long enough that you hope they mature and you know, and get through it, have the buy-in and find the right medication because all of those things have to be taken into consideration. It's not like you can just stop and then it's all gone, maybe for some, but a lot of these kids need, you know, a lifetime or a long time of medication.

SPEAKER_02:

Right.

SPEAKER_03:

And luckily we're we're finally, you know, at that point now where our kids are buying into it, they understand what happened to them, and we're on the other side. We ho.

SPEAKER_02:

Right. But so so how did you get to that other side? Was there a particular facility, treatment, medication that has shown promise or hope for you?

SPEAKER_00:

So a little mixture of all of that. Um, my one son is doing really well. He's been sober for oh, it was a year in April, and he's taking medication clozapine has been life-changing for him. And not he doesn't need a lot of it to make a huge difference. Before that, it was he gotten to the point where he recognized that he was having um issues with marijuana, but he never found a medication to keep him stable. You know, he is bipolar now, so would he ever have been before? Who knows? But that's what we're dealing with. Um, and that's a a true diagnosis. And that's another thing about all of this. You know, it has a high, what is it, like a 40% conversion rate to a psychotic disorder. That's huge. That's that's a big gamble without anybody telling you that's something that could happen. But yes, medication has changed him. And I think it's just he went to a great program, actually, pace in California. It was the first place he went, loved it. And now, this is how many years later, said, Mom, it wasn't them. I just was not ready for it. Like I was not ready for what they were telling me. So that's you know, there are some kids who might get it the first time. Some kids are gonna take more, and you just hope that you can keep it going long enough that they eventually recognize it within themselves. I mean, I think now as time goes on, it gets better because it's so more prevalent. I mean, I know paste in California when Bryce, it was maybe, you know, a few kids had SIP. Now I think it's 90% of them go there for that. So I think with that, you don't want that to happen, but they definitely have more a commuting and understanding. Um, I really feel like our family is one of the front lines of this. We this started a long time ago, and there was not nearly as much info as there is now.

SPEAKER_03:

One thing on the medication, clozapine, doctors are finding that clozepine um works very well for these kids that have SIP, cannabis-induced psychosis. And it uh it has a healing agent for the brain. And we're finding that that's true for us. And a lot of a lot of the people we talk to on the clozapine site net are seeing the same thing.

SPEAKER_02:

Yes, yes, I would agree. And there's been a lot, a lot of parents coming to that. And and what's so wonderful about the network is being able to share those resources because as I always say, there are so many parents that this is ongoing. It is so sad to say that I have a full-time job doing this, but I have a full-time job that goes well beyond 40 hours a week. And half of that time is spent interviewing new families. It's every week, every single week. There is not a single week that goes by that we do not have some kind of interview with a family addressing the same situations. And so when people are really new to this, as you guys were six, seven years ago, and as you learned, like by connecting with certain networks, and we'll talk more about them, like Johnny's Ambassadors and Every Brain Matters, and um and working together and learning more about everything, information sharing between each other, because out in the real world, nobody's recognizing that this is a real thing, but within our communities, we actually have that support with each other and are learning from each other. And by learning with each other, we're able to advocate, educate, and create awareness for others and our legislators and our communities. And I do think we are beginning to turn the tide a little bit. While this is still a very prominent problem, I think it's becoming harder and harder to ignore the stories and ignore to learn more about it and create more resources and more education for doctors and medical personnel, true medical personnel, you know, that's really um invested in changing this and helping and recognizing this as a problem. I agree. So when this was all going down many years ago, it was right around the same time that Laura Stack had come on the scene having her son, Johnny, who had died by suicide by using the medical products in Colorado. And as many of us know, she created Johnny's Ambassadors to educate and create awareness. She reminded us that Colorado had legalized, and you know, this was supposed to be a great thing for tax revenue and whatnot. And in reality, it was very different. And of course, as what Sam has always touted is that we learned a lot of lessons from Colorado about what actually wasn't working and how addiction rates increased, and and how introducing medical marijuana, let alone recreational, did not really fix all those problems. It did not decrease crime, it did not, it did not eradicate the cartels, and it isn't a safe and natural product anymore at all, right? So that's something else that people don't understand. And when they hear about these things, they push back with the whole narrative that, well, this is a safe and natural product and it's used medically. And so I think it is important to note that there are studies and there are medical uses for marijuana that I like to actually call medicinal uses for marijuana. You know, there are a few products on the market that have been on the market for years that you have to get by prescription. But that's not at all what we're talking about here, you know. And Dave, you had mentioned, and I know when we advocated together in Pennsylvania, you carried these products with you. But while marijuana is medically legal in Pennsylvania and your children were using the medical products, were they also using the products that fell through the loophole?

SPEAKER_00:

Yeah, absolutely.

SPEAKER_03:

Delta 8? Yeah, dummy's, you name it. I mean, you can go down to the convenience store and they sell it right on the shelf next to the candy. We've had the DEA in there, we've had the police in there. All they can do is tell them to move it behind the counter because under the Farm Act, it's legal. And you have fourth graders and fifth graders going in there and buying it. And we we we finally got them to put it on the back shelf. We went in the next day, they had it back on the candy shelf. So there's really no one's watching, no one knows what's out there.

SPEAKER_00:

And they keep on popping up in our little town. They put one in, one across the street now, one down the road. They are so close together, they're everywhere. And it it makes you know, these young kids think that this is normalized.

SPEAKER_03:

It's normalized, and there's nothing wrong with it. It's medicine, so that makes it more accessible, but it also makes them think that it's something safe, which it is not, right?

SPEAKER_02:

Absolutely, it is not. Yeah, yeah, it's it's really so disheartening and and so very sad what's going on in our community. But can we talk a little bit about the wonderful ways in which you have advocated and connected with these other organizations and ultimately Pan as well? I'd like to talk a little bit about how being introduced to Johnny's Ambassadors basically changed the tide for you. And then how you connected with Pan and the kind of things that you have done even before Pan, and then continuing to work with Pan to advocate for change.

SPEAKER_00:

For sure, Johnny Ambassadors was the first place we found community. I mean, the story that Laura had on there, and the first people, I think we're one of the first maybe 50 or 100 people on her site, and the more that flooded in, they're all the stories were so similar. You could know put our kids' name in any one of those, and they're almost identical stories. It was almost gave me the chills because they were so similar. Same kind of stories. And that just felt good that we're not alone, that this is not just happening to our family. Not that we want it to happen, anyone, but we're not alone in this. And then through that, you know, we've worked with John Ian's ambassadors and talked to other parents. Now, Dave and I both get I get probably one or two parents a week that are new to her site that can reach out to me and I reach out to them to see if we can help connect them with resources, which is you know, cutting steps that we didn't have before, um, places to go. I mean, it's just a great resource. And I think Dave found out about Pan through Lara Stack.

SPEAKER_03:

I'm well, actually, um, I'm a toxic tort attorney, so um we deal with products that are out on the market and lack of warning, dangerous, everything of that nature. And this is a perfect example of it. They're selling this stuff, and people don't know, they're not warned, and it's just not a safe product. So, in that line of it, I was talking with some attorneys, and someone told me about an attorney in New Jersey that knew you and got me in contact with you.

SPEAKER_02:

Mm-hmm. Mm-hmm. And then, and then the rest is history as far as advocating with Pan. And so, for the for new listeners who don't realize um some of the differences between these advocacy um anti-marijuana uh educational and awareness uh nonprofits and organizations, is that Sam um is very policy driven. Our CEO is the former drug policy advisor for the Clinton, Obama, and Bush administrations. And I very affectionately call him the Nostradamus of this industry because he literally, and I don't say this because I work here. I work here because I say this because as a prevention specialist, I felt this about him immediately. He predicted this 15 years ago. He knew when there were the rumblings about the first four states legalizing that this was going to be an absolute disaster and a can of worms you could never get back in the can. So thank God for Kevin's instinct and drive to create smart approaches to marijuana. Obviously, since you can't put the worms back in the can, we do have to come up with smart ways to try to protect our youth, our vulnerable populations, and our communities, and to also educate. So we have the luxury of having the governmental and federal uh connections with Congress and the Senate to actually advocate. And that's why working with Laura is so wonderful because Laura educates in the schools and provides a myriad of valuable resources, but she doesn't do legislative advocacy. So, and and lately, especially almost every week, I get an email from Laura connecting me with a parent who is ready to advocate. So, so for people listening out there who aren't sure where they're at, um, you know, when Dave and Sarah were first in this, they were worried about their kids. And were, I mean, not that they're not anymore, but they were worried about their kids. They didn't know what was going on. They had to help their kids first, find resources, whatnot. So I always look at this as kind of like going through the stages of grief, right? First you're you're sad, then you're angry, and and it takes a while before you're ready to do something about it. So that's where pan comes in. And while of course Sam has educational resources and one-pagers and deep dives and all kinds of invaluable information, our niche is advocacy at the federal level on Capitol Hill and training our parents to be able to tell their stories effectively, because sometimes, like in Dave and Sarah's case, your story is seven years long, right? So when you're ready to advocate and you want to, let's call it, create a stink about this, you still have to narrow that story down to some really key points in order to get the ear of your legislators. So that's what we do here at Pan. And then everything you learn, and we love watching this in action, we we hope that you take home with you and use at the state and local level within your own communities and spread the information and help bring more people in, which Dave and Sarah are so great at doing, as are many of our parents. Again, I want to thank you guys for all that you do to advocate. And I really hope listeners listen to this story and understand just how serious this problem is, but how that once you're a member of these communities, you're not alone. You're definitely not alone anymore. And that's so very important for all of us. So it's so empowering. It really, really is. And and you make real friendships. So I I often ask what has helped uh you move forward. And I think we've talked about that a lot, but is there anything else that we haven't mentioned that has helped you move forward?

SPEAKER_03:

Well, you have to take some time for yourself because this'll this will eat you up. We try to, you know, make our own time together. Not to forget everything else, but you have to you have to separate yourself from this once in a while.

SPEAKER_00:

For sure. We we say our lives are going by at the same rate as theirs, and we can't fix everything. So we do, we've learned to kind of put things on the shelf and do things with our other kids. And you know, we don't forget about them, but we have to, like Dave said, we have to take time for ourselves and community. We have so many friends, lifelong friends now that we've met through these different resources that really understand what you're going through. I mean, our our families are great, but they've not lived this and they can empathize so much. But to have someone to share stories, I mean, we find ourselves talking to other parents that we laugh at some of the things that are almost they're tragic, but they're just yeah, just a relief because they get it, they've lived the same thing. And that's a silver lining. I guess. You have to get involved.

SPEAKER_03:

Johnny's ambassadors, there's there's there are many organizations out there in Japan. Just get involved with other families so you can talk about this, and that's the only way you're gonna get through. You have to have a community too, just like our kids have to have a community and a sober living. Yeah, yeah, we need this too.

SPEAKER_00:

Yeah, it's made all the difference.

SPEAKER_02:

And really working with Pans now that are the ones who were 27, 27 and 24. Wow.

SPEAKER_00:

So they're right when they were 18 and 21. Yeah. I mean, it it's heartbreaking. You look back and you know, it try not to stay in that world, but you get Facebook notifications or you see other kids that they went to school with and where they are in life, and it really hits hard. Um but you just gotta start from where you are and just hope for the best and keep, you know, going through it.

SPEAKER_02:

Yeah, yeah. And and you two are just so brave and strong, and it's really, really admirable and inspiring. I do have one other question because you just mentioned family, and we probably should have asked earlier. But when this first started going on, well, family great or not, did they understand or did they automatically just accept this along with you? Or or was it tough?

SPEAKER_00:

Yeah, I think they I mean, I think they did. They knew as much as we knew at the time. Um, I don't think any one of our family members said, Oh, that can't be true. I mean, I think they listened to us and we educated them. Um I don't I think they were very supportive. What do you think?

SPEAKER_03:

Supportive, but if they're not living it every day, it's kind of impossible for them to really understand.

SPEAKER_00:

It's been so long, and there's been so many acute times that it's probably for them. They never say this, but I often feel like, oh, here it is again, more of the same. Or they feel like they have no way of helping because they don't really. But I think they feel like they can listen and they're kind and supportive, but there's nothing that they can do really. Yeah, and it it's hard. I mean, their family lives are not perfect, but certainly this kind of thing's not going on with them.

SPEAKER_02:

Right, right. Um, well, I love your message to parents about community. I I recently interviewed Sally Schindle, and she made a beautiful statement, which is so true. And of course, her story is tragic in that she's another parent who lost her child and to, you know, suicide while in a cat cannabis-induced psychotic state. And this was in 2004, so long ago. And yet she still says you should not feel guilty about finding joy. You have to find joy in your life, and that is okay, and you have to take care of yourself. So um, I I love the statement about finding joy, and I love your statement about finding time for each other because obviously you could get lost in trying to help your affected loved ones and then neglecting the other ones. So finding time as a family and Then finding time for yourselves as well to make sure that you're okay because you can't you can't help someone else if you're not well yourself.

SPEAKER_01:

Dave, before we sign off from this session, I'd like to just talk about one more thing with you. As many of us know, the ProPod industry is pushing medical marijuana as useful for treating PTSD in veterans. And given all you've been through with your family and the fact that you are an Army veteran, I know we've talked about this a little bit in the past, and I'd love to hear from you how you feel about that, and if you have ever had conversations with any friends from the service about this, and and uh just your feelings on marijuana being used to treat PTSD.

SPEAKER_03:

Well, first of all, I'd like to thank you for you know letting me talk about this today. Thank you. I I think what the the uh pro pot industry is doing is um it's disgusting. It's just uh further attempt for this addiction for profit industry to go after the most vulnerable and make money. It's just money. I served in our our service in the Army for ten years. Um I was enlisted, I went through West Point, became an officer, and after my uh I I was 100% dis uh disabled through the service. I got out and I went through law school, and for the past 10 years, not only in my practice but as pro bono, I've been representing and trying to help homeless and indigenous veterans to uh secure their mental health care and get some type of uh you know income so they can you know move out of this uh sit situation. And I find uh uh in the past few years here with the high THC pot that's out there um and the pot industry pushing it to them as this is what's gonna solve your PSD problems, it's just disgusting because it's doing nothing but masking uh uh uh very vulnerable people's problems. And it's not that they're gett help it's getting them any help, it's just making them not care to get any help. And I have not been able to really help any of these people that need the help because they're just high, and they think, well, I don't care. And for them to keep pushing that, it it's criminal. I can't help these people when they're so hot.

SPEAKER_01:

Yeah, it sure is. You know, and while the Veterans Association does not condone the use of medical marrow marijuana for PTSD or any mental health ailment, they are interested in researching it. And again, I think even the Veterans Association Association just gets mixed up in that researching and doing studies on marijuana as medicine is very different than legalizing the products of today. So it is just an absolute debacle. And again, thank you for letting us know that because I really just wanted to hear from you about that as we approach Veterans Day. I think we're gonna be doing a lot of awareness on you know the dangers of marijuana to our veterans. And I I just thought it would be um a great way to add a little more insight into the veteran situation. So thank you so much for that.

SPEAKER_03:

And thank you for letting me talk about it.

SPEAKER_02:

So again, thank you both of you for sharing your story and for for being so open with not just the parents that you come across, but with with Pam and Sam and for doing everything that you do. Because again, like you said, you're you you have a large family and a lot going on, but you still make the time to do this. And your kids are doing better. So you could turn around and say, Oh, we've had enough of this, but you don't do that. So I really appreciate that and I appreciate your advocacy. And I do want to let listeners know that Sarah and Dave will be joining us on Capitol Hill again this February, and we look forward to that. And again, our Hill Day is a private event open to advocates who are doing a lot of work and are very familiar with Pan as we become more familiar with you. But that doesn't mean we're we're not interested in having quote unquote newbies join us. So if you're not part of Pan and you're interested in sharing a story and ready to advocate, then please do not hesitate to reach out to me at Chrissy. That's C-R-I-S-S-Y at learnaboutsam.org. And again, that's Chrissy without an H. So C-R-I-SSY at learnaboutsam.org. And if you're interested, even if you're not interested or ready to advocate yet, and you're just interested in learning more about what's going on across the country and state by state, please get in touch with us and sign up for our newsletter because it's jam-packed with information, um, state updates, federal updates, action alerts that you could easily do without being present, what we call the one click campaigns, and just staying up to date on what's going on around the country involving marijuana legalization. So we'd love you to sign up for that and become part of our network. Again, Dave and Sarah, thank you so much for your time. I really appreciate it. I look forward to seeing you in person again in February, if not before, somehow. And thank you for all you do.

SPEAKER_03:

Thanks, Chrissy. Thank you, Chrissy.

SPEAKER_02:

We hope that these episodes leave everyone with the understanding that we are more powerful in numbers. So together we do make a difference. Thank you again, Dave and Sarah. Thank you, listeners, and we'll see you at the next episode.