Marijuana's Hidden Grip: How A “Harmless” Habit Hijacked A Life And How Recovery Brought It Back

Join Crissy and addiction counselor and host of the Reality Therapy Podcast, Ryan Rodgers, as they discuss marijuana addiction and today's high potency products. The first hit felt like relief-that’s the twist Ryan Rogers unpacks with raw honesty: marijuana didn’t crash his life overnight—it slowly replaced it. No brutal hangover, no flashing red lights. Just drifting grades, fading drive, a new identity built around a ritual that felt sacred and safe. Until it wasn’t. We sit with the messy middle—how a “mild” drug can be the most alluring, how promises to quit crumble, and how families watch a love affair with THC eclipse everything else.

From there we widen the lens. Texas may reject adult-use legalization, but loopholes flood shelves with Delta-8, Delta-10, and THCA. Walk into a gas station and you’ll find a wall of psychoactive choices stronger than what Ryan used at his worst. That confusion extends to enforcement and to youth, who meet modern THC in candy coatings, not peace pipes. We challenge the “it’s just a plant” script, compare standardized FDA-approved cannabinoid medicines to dispensary products, and ask who’s actually using today’s THC. Ryan’s answer is blunt: mostly bored young men searching for meaning, not patients seeking targeted therapy.

The heart of the conversation is recovery that actually works. Ryan rejected “California sober” after learning how weed quietly reopens doors to drinking and stimulants. Instead, he embraced abstinence, the 12 steps, service, and faith, and now counsels men at Heartwood Recovery Center. He sees two common tracks for cannabis-only users: stagnation in a haze or gradual escalation. The antidote is structure, community, and a new story about sobriety—not as punishment, but as an upgrade. We share victories that rarely make headlines: packed meetings, degrees finished, careers launched, friendships rebuilt, families healing. And we offer parents and young adults a clear message: high-potency THC carries real risks, but there’s abundant hope when you take the next right step.

If this conversation resonates, share it with a friend, colleague or subscribe for more candid stories and evidence-based insights. 

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Transcript

Opening And Guest Introduction

SPEAKER_00 0:15

Greetings everyone. This is Chrissy with Parent Action Network back for another episode of the Fortitude Podcast. As you all know, we generally interview parents and hear their stories, but I'm going to spend the month of January interviewing former users and former supporters of the industry. And I felt there was no better way to start that off than with special guest Ryan Rogers here from the Reality Therapy podcast. And some of you may remember Kevin Sabet, our renowned CEO, appeared on Ryan's podcast talking about marijuana legalization. And I was very taken by Ryan's honesty in telling his own story of past use and how this had affected him and his honest and raw awe for Kevin and his feelings about this industry. I'm so thankful that he agreed to be here today. So, Ryan, thank you so much for being here.

SPEAKER_01 1:17

Thank you so much for having me.

SPEAKER_00 1:19

As I mentioned, I I was very taken by your story of former use. It really resonated with me. And I'd just like to talk a bit about that. So if you wouldn't mind giving us a little bit of background on your history with marijuana use and and how you feel about it today and what changed your feelings about use.

Consequences And Escalation To Other Drugs

SPEAKER_01 1:44

Yeah, I first encountered marijuana when I was about 19 years old. I had just a number of things happened. I had changed majors a couple times, not really sure where I was headed, the direction of my life, things like that. And um, you know, it was kind of uh recommended by a friend. I thought uh I heard a lot of uh I heard drugs are bad a lot growing up, and I heard um, you know, a very convincing sales pitch to get me to try it. You know, it can't hurt you, it's it's harmless, it's not addictive, things like that. Um, you know, and uh before I had tried it, I'd watched a couple different documentaries that are, you know, it's safe, it's medicine, it's non-addictive, all this kind of stuff. And I tried it and I I uh I it hooked me instantly. There was no like period of becoming an addict. Like it was it was right away. I remember taking that first hit and thinking, I want to feel like this every moment for the rest of my life. Um and I think something that's very confusing about drugs is a lot of times people hear drugs are bad and assume that that means drugs are gonna make you feel bad. And the reality is the the better it makes you feel, the more dangerous it is, the more it's gonna draw you in. And I think that's kind of so deceptive because as much information as you have to tell you this is poison, somewhere deep down it feels like medicine. So I I uh you know continue this journey for a number of years, smoking pot every day, all throughout the day. Um and in 2011 I got a DW DWI and possession of marijuana charge on probation, and that kind of spiraled out into hard drugs, heavy drinking, things like that. Um and I I got sober. Uh I walked out of a hotel room on New Year's Day of 2017. Um and something I like to highlight with my story is that I was uh a pretty hardcore alcoholic. I drank so much that by 29 years old I had liver damage. I loved cocaine and oxycontin, and I loved a lot of hard drugs and things that are considered pretty serious, and nothing, nothing sucked me in as much as marijuana. And it's hard to explain that to people because so many people think like this is such a mild drug that's not that big of a deal. And the reality for me is it, you know, if I if I had to pick and choose, I would have left all the other things behind and and and left everything else uh behind in my life to pursue pot. It was it was that kind of just constant, almost like romanticized fantasy that just would never go away. Um, and it's uh it it just kind of lingered in my head. It is as much evidence as I accumulated, this is hurting me, this is causing problems in my life, um, with with uh cocaine or or alcohol, it was like very uh uh apparent to me that this is causing harm in my life, this is not beneficial to me. But for some reason, marijuana sits differently in my brain to where it's like, I'm pretty sure I must have overreacted. This is actually isn't as big of a deal as I thought. I can go back to this. So I feel like it was the most alluring and the most deceptive of any drug that I've done.

The Allure And Deception Of Marijuana

SPEAKER_00 4:53

Right. I love that word alluring because a lot of our parents describe the use of marijuana as a love affair. Like there is no other drug, and you said that perfectly, where people will destroy their lives over this and defend it over everything. It's it's crazy. Like, like we don't really do that. Even the worst addict does not really do that with alcohol or cocaine or heroin or any other drug, you know, and it's so interesting when people say, oh, marijuana isn't addictive, because first of all, I remember my whole life being told and understanding that it was at least psychologically addictive. That is something that everybody seemed to recognize because you kind of wanted it, right? It made you feel so much better than so many other drugs. And there wasn't really a um an after effect like cocaine was bad, right? The after effects of cocaine were bad, alcohol was bad, hangovers were bad. But with marijuana, what happened? You slept a little longer, you know, you ate a little too much, gained a few pounds, and and that's the way people looked at it, you know, and sadly that's the way the generations who are adults now from the 60s, 70s, 80s are still looking at it, which is a big part of the problem, is that adults think that today's product is that product. So they're like, no, it's not harmful, it's just a plant. But we know better, especially here at Smart Approaches to Marijuana. We know that this is not that drug at all. And as the tagline goes, this is not your grandma's Woodstock weed.

Subtle Life Decline And Lost Ambition

SPEAKER_01 6:44

Yeah. You know, it it's interesting because the first time I drank alcohol, I got drunk, I threw up, and I woke up the next day with a horrible hangover. And instantly I thought this is a very powerful thing that has the potential to really hurt me. Uh, but with marijuana, there's no like hangover necessarily. You might be a little foggy the next day, but it's very subtle and and it kind of just kind of creeps in for me, crept into my life, and I didn't realize any negative effects until years down the road. I had dropped out of college. Um, you know, I had no career ambition. I went from being this, you know, stellar academic student to just, you know, busting tables and delivering pizzas. Had had no concern about that. Um, you know, I had this idea, well, you know, school is that there's no point in going to school, and I don't want to focus on career because I don't want to be a sellout. It completely changed my personality structure, what I valued in life, my motivation. And it happened so slowly over time that I didn't I didn't even realize it. And I think that's what the the subtlety of how pot hooks people in is so nefarious because you I mean, I've seen people, I was lucky enough to get sober at 29, but I've seen people in their 30s, 40s, 50s get sober and like, what happened to my life? It just it kind of flew by. I didn't even notice because I was in this haze.

SPEAKER_00 8:01

Yeah. And sadly, that's what's happening with our our youth and young adults, you know, is that there are so many of them that are just struggling with this cannabis-induced psychosis and the mental health effects and the physical health effect of cannabinoid hypermesis syndrome, you know, the chronic vomiting. And when, if and when they do recover, and we do have some stories of hope, but most all of them that are recovering um or have been in recovery for quite some time still have that sense of what you you said, um, feeling like they lost so much in their life, you know, and they lost their their high school years and they lost um their college years. And and we do have quite a number of young adults um through their mid-30s that still cannot get a job, cannot leave the house, are living with their parents. It it is bizarre. And speaking of parents, would you mind um talking a little bit about how this affected your family life and your home life? Um, were your parents aware of your issues and how did that play out?

Family Impact And Strained Relationships

SPEAKER_01 9:13

Yeah, I mean, they became aware pretty early on, and there was there was so often that they would beg me to to quit, and I would promise to quit. And I think a lot of times I meant that I was going to. I meant it with every fiber of my being, and I would just get high again. It's it's uh like a like it was like it was calling to me or something. Um, and it caused so much tension, and they knew it was hurting me, it was it was causing all this conflict in our family, and I knew that I could stop that, and it was just it was just like um you know almost impossible to to not put my finger on that button one more time um to get to get called back to it. Um you know, there was a lot of prayers said for me, um, you know, from extended family as well. Uh yeah, it's it's uh I mean I I was kind of uh a golden child in a lot of ways. I excelled at sports. I was an all-state pitcher in baseball. I got an academic scholarship to the honors college at Baylor University. I had so much going for me, and I was willing to just throw it all away and and didn't seem concerned about that at all. And it seemed so bizarre to my parents, like, why is he behaving this way? Yeah. And it was like my brain had been hijacked and I was no longer in control. Right, right.

SPEAKER_00 10:33

And um, how many siblings do you have?

SPEAKER_01 10:36

I have a younger brother, younger sister.

SPEAKER_00 10:38

Uh-huh. And they were aware as well. Do you feel they were impacted?

SPEAKER_01 10:43

Yeah, I mean, I I think they they tried to talk to me as as best they could, but um, you know, I was I was not in the position to hear anything. Um, you know, when it felt like when they were to criticize marijuana or pot use or anything like that, it felt like a personal attack, like almost like I'm being physically assaulted in my body by hearing this. Um, because I was so like mentally, emotionally attached to this. Um at one point my mom said, you know, I I I had walked away from my faith at that point. She said, You say you don't believe in God, but marijuana's your God. And it made me so angry because it was so true. You know, everything in my life, my thought life kind of revolved around it. Um, I would watch TV shows, you know, centering around it or movies. Um, you know, every time that I would smoke, whether it was loading a pipe or rolling papers, it was like this sacred ritual that I was partaking in, part of this kind of holy aspect of this religion. That was the center of my life. It was the center of all that I valued. Um, and and and like I said, it happened so slowly that I didn't notice it happening. It's not until after the fog clears and I get sober and I come out of it a little bit, I can look back and say, oh my gosh, what happened?

Sobriety Choice And California Sober Debate

SPEAKER_00 11:59

Right. So let's talk a little bit more about your sobriety. So when you became sober, was it from all substances? And did you or did you um at some point uh stop using other substances and was only using marijuana? Tell us a little bit about that. And then also as you were getting sober, were you California sober? You know, because that's a big thing, right? Oh, we can do we we're giving up all drugs except marijuana.

SPEAKER_01 12:35

Yeah, I uh I quit everything at the same time. It was uh yeah, it was it was I was just completely wrecked in my life, and it felt like I didn't have a choice. And I, you know, kind of worked the 12 steps and and took some different direction in my life, and eventually I wanted to stay sober, and that's that's why I continue to stay sober. Yeah. Uh but no, I I quit everything at once. Um, I I uh I I tried being California sober before, and I I like to say pot has plenty of uh negative consequences on its own. Um but it always pulled me into other directions, you know. If if I had if I said I wasn't gonna drink or if I said I wasn't gonna do cocaine and I smoke pot, I forget why I said those things, you know, and then all of a sudden, you know, I'm pulling other things into the equation as well. Um yeah, but I I have a lot of uh I work in the addiction treatment industry and um do do work in like 12-step fellowships, and I see a lot of people who want to be California sober, and it's so hard. You know, I I I I want to speak to myself from a few years ago, but it's so hard to explain, like, you know, this is killing you, you can't see it.

Texas Laws, Loopholes, And Gas Station THC

SPEAKER_00 13:42

Right. And and you know, I should have mentioned in the beginning that you're from Texas, so you're in Texas, where uh recreational or adult use man marijuana is illegal, and medical is technically I would venture to say illegal because yes, there's the Compassionate Care Act. But I know our project coordinator Bronwyn, who I told you lives in Texas as well, she would like marijuana to stay illegal in Texas. And you know, you probably know about the huge push to ban hemp products that the um lieutenant governor was supporting, and the governor actually vetoed. And so currently recreational marijuana is still illegal in Texas, but um there were a lot of advocates uh who rallied with the lieutenant governor to tell their stories because there are a lot of people in Texas with a lot of stories.

SPEAKER_01 14:45

That's that's sort of true. It's it's technically true that a certain type of THC is is illegal in Texas, um, but there's enough loopholes to where there's different types of that are almost identical. So we got Delta 8, Delta 10, uh THCA. They're almost identical chemicals, and I can go to the gas station, you know, a stone's throw from my apartment and and and get things that are more powerful than I ever used in my addiction. Um so when we say it's it's illegal, that's that's not really true. Like um, yeah, I've actually heard a number of people say they went back to buying weed illegally because the legal stuff from the gas station was too strong.

SPEAKER_00 15:24

Yeah.

SPEAKER_01 15:24

Um it it's just I I have a picture on my phone, I could, I can send it to you, but it's it's just a giant wall at this gas station near my apartment of uh you know uh tons of different types of THC products. I don't know if you want to get into the the Kratom thing, but um it's called it's called 70H. That's I mean I've got a number of guys who said withdrawing from that is is worse than withdrawing from heroin. Yes. Um so I mean it's just it's like uh it's just a drug wonderland at almost every gas station in Austin, Texas.

Recovery Path, 12 Steps, And Faith

SPEAKER_00 15:55

Yeah, it's the same way here in New York. I I tell a story often that I went into my favorite Italian deli, and I was appalled because there was like, I would describe it like a gun case, right? With glass. It was locked with a padlock, but the same thing. It had all the variations of Delta, it had Kratom, it had ayahuasca, you name it, it was in that case. And I was like, this is outrageous. I I was so upset. I have not been back to that deli since, and they have one of my favorite pasta dishes of all time. But I just I can't condone it knowing what I know. And and I really um I've I've I should probably shouldn't say this, but I've reported a lot of gas stations and a lot of places, convenience stores, on the OCM, which is the Office of Cannabis Management in New York's website. They don't do anything. They don't care. All those places are still open. It's it's despicable.

SPEAKER_01 16:57

You know? Yeah, it's it it it it's just it's it's wild. And from what I have a couple friends who are police officers, and they say it's it's almost impossible to arrest people because they have no idea is this legal or illegal because it's so similar.

SPEAKER_00 17:11

Oh, yeah, yeah. It's it's an absolute travesty. And like Kevin always says, we're never gonna put these worms back in the can. So what can we do? You know? I'd also really love to talk a little bit about your path to recovery and and what you're doing now as an addiction specialist. Um, that, you know, we hear that kind of story a lot from former users and um people in recovery. And that's something very near and dear to me in my past work as a prevention director of an agency. We had a recovery department as well. And our peer recovery coaches were required to be in recovery, or they could not be hired and do that job because you cannot walk that path unless you understand that path.

Who’s Really Using “Medical Marijuana”?

SPEAKER_01 17:56

Yeah. So uh working the 12 steps was a big part of my journey. And um, you know, a big part of the 12 steps is is service work or helping other people along this path as well. And I ended up making a career out of that. So I went back to school and uh got my master's in clinical mental health counseling. Um, so that's I work at a rehab right now. Um, but uh, you know, so much of it um, and I was I I was not on board with with all this at the beginning. Um I I could not smoke pot because I was in a sober house and getting drug tested, and if I smoked pot, I would be homeless. And I couldn't drink because I had liver damage, I couldn't hold down a drink physically. Um, so I was kind of limited and I was kind of bitter and resentful at the fact that I was having to be sober. Um but you know, eventually kind of living life a little bit differently and connecting, you know, forming human relationships that were not mediated by substances, uh felt so much deeper and richer than I was used to. Um, you know, I feel like there's there's so many moments in life that are maybe on the surface awkward or boring or whatever. And kind of when you uh kind of look back on it from a more transcendent perspective, those are kind of the moments when you like connect with people or process uh experiences. And if I'm constantly drowning out all those types of moments, anytime I get bored or anytime I'm uncomfortable or awkward or whatever, if I'm drowning that out, I'm missing a significant portion of life. Um, it's like fast forwarding to the end of a movie, but you miss all the context of the movie. Um yeah, so uh working the 12 steps was big. Uh my my faith in God is a big part of who I am. Um yeah, I uh I would say kind of having a constant reminder of working with other people is a good reminder of you know myself and and where my addiction was. And sometimes I get frustrated. How in the world, after all you've been through, how in the world can you think it's okay to go back and smoke pot? Who else thought that? Me. You know? And so having to having to have that constant reminder.

SPEAKER_00 20:13

Wow. Wow. And do you um work independently or do you work for a particular agency?

SPEAKER_01 20:20

I work for a it's a men's addiction treatment center in Austin, Texas. Awesome.

Abstinence-Based Recovery And Success Stories

SPEAKER_00 20:26

Awesome. So would you mind telling us the name of it? Because again, so many of our parents, you know, are looking for resources, and so many of our parents have young adult sons. It is, it's interesting that it is predominantly men. You know, we do have a handful of women and parents who have daughters young, you know, in their late teens, young 20s, but it is so interesting how it is dominated by men.

SPEAKER_01 20:55

Yeah, the the name of the place I work is called Heartwood Recovery Center. And just touching on that, kind of back to the medical marijuana point, you know, you'll have these extremely rare examples of someone with a rare type of cancer who's helped by cannabis use or something. But the the vast majority of people I see who use cannabis are bored young men who lack meaning and purpose in life. It's not some elderly cancer patient. That's not who's using pot. Right.

SPEAKER_00 21:23

Right. And and and also if if it is the reason that they're using pot, again, that's not pot. It's medical marijuana that was FDA approved years and years ago, went through rigorous processes. And as I always like to say, those medicines that are marijuana, like epidiolex or drenabinol or marinol, they if you go to Texas, New York, Timbuktu with a prescription from your doctor after being assessed by your doctor and prescribed for cancer or anorexia or in some cases childhood epilepsy, if you go to a pharmacy with your prescription and it doesn't matter where you are, you're getting the same medicine. It's just like we go hand in our prescription for any medicine that we've been prescribed, you're getting the same medicine. If I'm here in New York or in Florida and I have a prescription for Naproxen, I'm getting the same product no matter where I pick that up. That is not the case with today's quote unquote medical marijuana. In fact, many don't know, but our advocates know. Medical and recreational marijuana in dispensaries are the exact same thing. In legal dispensaries, exact same thing. The whole concept of medical marijuana was just a ploy to legalize a product.

Hope, Awareness, And Youth At Risk

SPEAKER_01 22:57

You know, something interesting to me is uh CBD, or is that what it is? CBD was uh you know, has has a lot of evidence for like medicinal properties for various different things. It was legal for a number of years before all these THC products started taking off. It was not all that popular because what people want is not predominantly what people want is not medicinal properties. They want to get high.

SPEAKER_00 23:20

Exactly. I I I'm so glad you said that because I say that every day. And I I often talk about it with staff on staff meetings or sometimes when we post something on our internal messaging, I say, why can't we just point blank say, look, everybody, the whole world isn't ill, right? Everybody just wants to get high. And actually, I was just saying yesterday that the 25 to 35 year olds set, you know, again, my kids are in that age age range, and I have a lot of conversations with their friends, whether they use or not. But the fact is that those who are using, they all readily admit that they're using it because they like it and they want to get high, and they're just glad that they're they're not gonna get in trouble for it. But there's not a single person who claims to be using it because they have aches and pains or or some kind of ailment. And to top it off, please name another medicine that cures absolutely everything and anything. I mean, it's ridiculous.

SPEAKER_01 24:22

Yeah. Man, yeah, it's uh terrible. Yeah, it's really it's really something.

Reality Therapy Podcast Mission

SPEAKER_00 24:30

So what successes are you seeing in the addiction field? You know, like uh you said that you deal with this a lot, and what a shocker. Because again, the in in in my assessment, I'd say 75% of the world is stoned, which is very concerning. You know, I I remember when I used to educate, you know, people would say, Well, marijuana's so not so bad. And I would say, Um, so let me ask you this. You have kids in elementary school, right? Not so bad. How do you feel about your bus driver having coffee on a joint in the morning and then picking up your kid on their bus? I mean, because that's what's going on, right? How do I feel about getting in an airplane? I'm I I go in and out of phases, but I'm often terrified because I'm like, did that pilot just have some gummies? And I know planes can fly themselves, but we've heard quite a few horror stories about impaired pilots, you know, and and and imagine truck drivers and your delivery workers. I I mean, it's just terrifying in my assessment.

Final Words Of Hope And Closing

SPEAKER_01 25:33

Yeah, so the the first thing I'll say is I I strictly work in abstinence-based recovery. Um, I just don't see how it works if you are California sober or if, you know, uh kind of the harm reduction thing, it's like tolerating the thing that's keeping your life from getting better. Um, and so I've seen a number of people where it's like, um, you know, I'm I'm just gonna smoke pot, and you know, there's two directions that could go. One, they just keep smoking pot and their life never takes off. Or two, um, you know, it's pot, and then, well, maybe I'll have a little to drink on my birthday, and then, you know, why not a little bit of cocaine on the weekend? And you start adding more and more things back into it. Um, so I I'm strict on the abstinence-based uh recovery stuff. Um, but I see so many success stories. You know, I see success stories in the in the treatment center where I work. I see guys get out and get jobs, and you know, they're sponsoring other guys, and some some of them join my church, and I see like all kinds of stuff, people improving. Uh, not that long ago, I went to a 12-step meeting and it was in a big gymnasium. There's probably two to three hundred people in the gymnasium, and I saw some people, some of these people I hadn't seen in 10 years, and some of them had finished college and gone on to get professional degrees, you know, uh started a professional career and and different things. And um, you know, I I think uh people like me and probably people like you um have a lot of exposure to the dark side of things and all the harms that's going on. I think it's important for us also to say, hey, there's a lot of victories too. There's a lot of success stories, there's a lot of people who are beating this. Um, I think if it's if it's all doom and gloom, you know, some people kind of internalize that, well, why wouldn't I get high? You know, there's no point. And to remind them, no, there's a lot of people who go on to have amazing lives that are way better. And something I stress to my guys at the center where I work is, you know, there's there's this thought that's in your head a lot of times. I this is certainly in my head in early sobriety, where it's like, I know drugs and alcohol are ruining my life, but you know, I know being sober is the correct decision, but it's gonna suck, it's gonna be boring, it's gonna be uncomfortable, it's gonna be miserable, I'm gonna hate it, but I guess it's the right thing to do, quote unquote. And something I try to sell them on is this is legitimately a better life. This is a happier, more fulfilling, uh more purpose-driven life. It's not just something that you tolerate, like you can actually enjoy life.

SPEAKER_00 28:07

So absolutely. I I think those are beautiful words and probably beautiful words to almost end on. Um because I always like to leave with a message of hope. And and you're a hundred percent right, there are so many hopeful stories, and so many, even the worst horror story, the parents that have lost their children in this, you know, still have words of hope and wisdom to pass on. Um and again, I want to say that like in our network, there are so many more people living with this right now. Uh, I mean, thousands of young adults across the country and teenagers, you know, because it begins in high school generally, are suffering with these ill effects of today's high t high potency THC products. There's no ifs, ends, or buts about it. We really have to spread the word and raise awareness. And the these poor young persons need to find hope. And and again, there are stories of hope. We've featured quite a few of them, and yours is an absolute story of inspiration and hope. And so, again, I appreciate you so much for being here and sharing that story. Um, but before I ask you to leave us with some words, I do want to give you the opportunity to tell us a little bit about your podcast because I've listened personally to a couple of other episodes ever since Kevin appeared as a guest to you. And so just give yourself a plug, please. Tell us a little bit about when you started it, what you focus on. And um I'd like to have uh maybe the link as well so that we can share that with our listeners.

SPEAKER_01 29:56

Yeah. So my podcast is called Reality Therapy, and it started maybe a year ago when I was in grad school and really frustrated that I thought grad school was not teaching us valuable things that could help us uh, you know, help people with their mental health. Um, you know, there was a huge political bias. It was a lot of focus on social justice and not a lot of focus on skills. Um, and you know, I mean, there was lots of arts and crafts projects and playing with Play-Doh. And, you know, I take the work that I do very seriously. Um, it's a life and death situation for my clients. And it felt like there was not that sense of urgency there. And so the reality therapy podcast is focused on getting political bias out of uh grad schools and out of therapy and really taking the the profession seriously for our clients. So that's that's what I focus on.

SPEAKER_00 30:47

Great, great. Well, well, again, um, thank you so much for number one for having Kevin as a guest and having such a wonderful session with him that I was able to get you onto the Fortitude podcast. And thank you for everything that you're doing. And again, just leave us with some words of wisdom for our listeners.

SPEAKER_01 31:08

Um yeah, that's uh I mean I I I think you know, uh I I just said it a second ago, but but believing that a life beyond marijuana can be a good life. Because when you're so uh wrapped up in it, it seems like the only life worth living. And that it's almost like a spiritual type of quest to use marijuana and to imagine a life where not just you go on living without it, but you you thrive and enjoy life and you eventually stop wanting to use marijuana. It's not like you're going through life, gritting your teeth, wishing that you were getting high, that you legitimately love your life and and don't don't look back. So I think to remind people that that's not only possible, but it's happening to lots and lots of people across the country, um, and is as uh kind of sticky or is as lingering as marijuana addiction can be, like there's there's lots of hope and there's lots of uh stories of people overcoming it.

SPEAKER_00 32:15

Great. Well, thank you so much for that. Um again, it's been an absolute pleasure having you here. I I hope that you'll consider joining me again, possibly as a guest on our webinar, writing a feature for our newsletter. And thank you for everything that you're doing. Your story is incredibly inspiring, and I really appreciate having you. Thank you so much, Ryan.

SPEAKER_01 32:39

Thank you so much for having me.