Speaker 1: 0:01

All right, welcome to the Misogi Mission podcast. I'm your host, rob Olson, today. I have Jay Rhodes with me. Our goal today is to educate, entertain and inspire you by having fellow dads on and hearing about how they overcame average and started doing some epic stuff. So, jay, welcome to the podcast. Great to have you on. Thank you, man. I'm excited to be here, and when I responded to your message, I had no idea it was going to lead to this, but I think this is going to be super cool and I think it's going to actually give me, like, as I was writing out some of my notes for this, I record a podcast too. I'm like why haven't I talked about this yet? Awesome.

Speaker 1: 0:40

So, before we get into the Misogi aspect, fill us in on your family and kind of what you do from a day-to-day aspect that we can learn about your background, before we tackle the epic challenge that you went through. Sure, yeah, yeah. So I'm your family, my wife Lacey. We've been together actually since 2007, 18 years. We actually just kind of celebrated our dating anniversary on february 2nd. Uh, married in august of 2014. We have a son, leonardo, who he's three and a half, and unique part of our story is, he was carried by my wife's sister through surrogacy which like kind of weaves into the story a little bit later on, and she is pregnant right now and being induced on Tuesday. So that's why we're doing this this week and not next week. Amazing, I'm excited for you guys. And then and then I I know we've kind of been in the same spaces for for a while through like two brain business, right. So I'm a I'm a gym owner uh, mentor for two brain business since 2018, gym owner since 2012, and I like to challenge myself and I think that's why we're here to talk about some of this stuff. Awesome. Yeah, now, we definitely have ran in the same circles for a while, but I've actually never heard your story of your Masogi. I've seen you post about it, but I've never heard the full details. So I'm excited to hear what the background was and how you got into it. So why don't you fill us in? What was it that you went through and how did it come about? Yeah, so I'm going to start. I'm going to start years back, actually, because I learned about Masogi the word and like why we were doing it and that that whole concept like in the middle of it.

Speaker 1: 2:25

So it wasn't something that I was like, hey, we're gonna go do this thing, like I was already doing things like that, right. So, um, and for context, like I just don't think that that's how most people are going to find themselves in something like this. You know, they might, they might be listening to something like this and they're like, finally tips them or okay, I'm gonna, I'm gonna do it. Um, so for context, like, uh, and I'll talk about a few of these things that I've done prior to this, but the one that I responded to was the hardest physical thing I've ever done and so we'll get into that more.

Speaker 1: 2:55

But I've always loved like physical challenge sports training all my life, like I grew up running track and playing football, both like mary's physical sports, like it wasn't like basketball, soccer, which of course, there's a physical element, but like it's skill and ball sport and teamwork, my mind, where I guess I was a running back and a 200, 400 long hurdle guy. So it was very like if you train, you will get better, right, and and it wasn't like with training, like I mean, I started training, what? 15, 16? I love the feeling, I love the result, sure, aesthetic result, but like I started winning. I started winning things like provincial championships in ontario and stuff, and so that just like fueled the fire more. But it wasn't until I found crossfit that I started to venture into some of the longer stuff, and and when I say like venture in, so like my first year of I found CrossFit in 2009 and then in May of 2010, so this would kind of be my first sort of like finding yourself in something really challenging.

Speaker 1: 3:54

I had a buddy that entered a half marathon run in May of 2010. So I was like not even a year, I can't remember. It was because the regionals that year were right, it were in May as well, and I can't remember if it was like right before or after that, but anyway I was like, hey, yeah, I'll go do it. And he, he was a track buddy of mine, a pentathlete, so like a five event guy more of more definitely more of like a long distance. That's where he excelled. And I was just like, yeah, I'll run 21.2 kilometers with you, like how hard can it be? You just run slower, like I'm used to running fast and I still have a lot of residual fitness from from track and and so like we went through 5k together in like 23 minutes, which is not blazing but it's pretty respectable, and then you can see you later. And so like, just quickly with that, like I found myself it was the longest run I had done in like five years.

Speaker 1: 4:54

By the time I hit 3k I hadn't run outside of like 400 meter jog and warmups and CrossFit Like I. Just I wasn't running like this. And so at the time we got to like 10, 11 K, my feet felt like they'd been hit by hammers. My dad was actually really sick, he was going, he was like recovering from a blood infection at the time where they nearly killed him, which is like a whole nother story.

Speaker 1: 5:16

But again, put kind of put me in the mindset of doing hard things and I remember getting through, there was a spot where we got into like hills and like 15, 16 K and I I imagined my parents beside me not encouraging me but me encouraging them Like I, like I was the leader type thing and so like I couldn't quit and basically my goal was like don't stop running, I don't care how slow you go, yeah, and so like that was one of the things that got me through. That finished. The finish line was like so close to my apartment and I just like hobbled home like it was under a club, like I literally just like sad walk home, like, died on the floor. I was like never doing it again, like I literally said I will never do that again. Back to training. Like let's go back to the. You know the short explosive, like the stuff that I liked right, like CrossFit, weightlifting and so like that's and I was already doing that. But that's where I really poured myself into and, you know, did the, the regionals thing and the games. I went to the games on a team for you know, and so that was really the focus for like I don't know, like five years or so, 2018, so skip a bunch of years.

Speaker 1: 6:28

Two of my coaches at my gym who are still still they're great guys. They had entered. There's a road race around here. It's called around the bay, 30k, like what the I think it's the the longest standing road race in north america get all sorts of great runners. They were like, hey, we're doing this as a challenge. I was like hell, yeah, I'm in. And so I just I said yes. Three training runs 8k, 12k, 16k. The last one was awful and the day of we went through 20k. We ran it together like that was our. Our mission was like no man left behind. We went through 20k in two hours, which is, again, pretty respectable, and then the wheels absolutely fall off, fell off.

Speaker 1: 7:07

For me, um, it was my first experience with salt depletion and so I started learning about myself, like because of my background, like I, you know, I I wasn't like the best track athlete you're ever gonna meet or anything, but like I won some stuff, I was, I was a pretty good runner, um, and same thing with, like crossfit and weightlifting. Like I had pretty, pretty respectable you know, strength numbers, weightlifting numbers. I'm a speed power athlete. Basically is what I'm trying to say, and I'm not wired to go long and when I do, like you learn, you learn a lot of things about yourself. And and I didn't know about salt depletion.

Speaker 1: 7:44

So, literally, like the last, there was a probably an hour where we I was like 50 steps, boom, like that's like shot in the right calf. I'm like oh, my god. And then, okay, okay, guys, I'm okay, 50 more steps, boom, other calf, and I was, it was, it was awful and they actually asked me like do you want us to pick you up and carry you. I was like don't watch me. No, absolutely not. And then some guy comes running along and he's like, hey, what's going on? Man, I'm like I'm dying, like I'm cramping so hard. And he's like, take these. And he gave me three salt salt tablets and I popped them. And then we ran the last 2k and like I when I say ran it, like I didn't get those cramps again. Now my body, my body, had just been cramping for like an hour. So it's like, you know, I was still hobbling around, but that was my first sort of like again experience going really long, like past two hours where that stuff starts to happen.

Speaker 1: 8:43

You know, 2019, I pulled, pulled back like these are long after I pulled back to competitive cross. But I I was asked do you know, um, derek thornton, do you know? I know the name, okay, so, yeah, I thought like he is again same circle. So he started in two brain and I was his mentor for a couple of years and he is, uh, he's the guy I just connected with, like right away, um, and he is a former queen's royal commando, so like, basically like like a uk special forces guy, like lots of stories. And so he asked me in 2019 to do a half iron triathlon on like five weeks notice. Right, that's crazy, but like that was right up my alley.

Speaker 1: 9:25

I was like, yep, not a bad swimmer. I hadn't swam in like 10 years, though I'd never been on a road bike. So I found a road bike. I ended up buying one that was like too small because I didn't know what I was looking for. First time ever, clipping in, I fell off the bike. Like I fell off the bike twice. Clipped in, like you know, not fall off the bike, you fall with the bike. Yeah, yeah, yeah, twice in the first five minutes getting on it. Like you know, it's not the ricky and I put in some work over five, five weeks. Like the thing about saying yes to that distance.

Speaker 1: 9:55

If it was like, hey, do you want to do a sprint triathlon? I wouldn't have taken it seriously. I would have just walked into it, right. So I think I swam. Maybe I swam three times the first time I so a guy from my gym gave me a scuba suit, which is like not meant to swim and, like you, just don't have arm movement at all. But I just went down the lakes at the end of my street here and I went and I tried to swim 2k and I did it. I was like, okay, well, we know we can do that. And so I swam three times.

Speaker 1: 10:22

I biked maybe twice a week and I was put, you know, like 50, 60k at a time. I went up to 80k once. Then I ran, I think, once or twice a week. I put in some work and like that day actually went really well. I came like 250th out of like 900 people. I came out of the water. So I proper proper wetsuit came out of the water 41 respectable 238 for a 90K bike, which I've never done since. I was just like I had this moment where I was like, oh my God, we're like racing bikes, this is so fun, I've never done this before and it was just like adrenaline.

Speaker 1: 10:56

And then we got to run a half marathon at the end of it in 33 degree, 33 Celsius, I don't know. It's really hot. 28 degrees is 82, the 28 82, yeah, yeah, right, so it's hot. It's like over 90 at 7. So it's like aid station, aid station. But again, like it was, just it was. It was a lot of fun and I actually didn't have like a bad experience where, like I cramped up and everything.

Speaker 1: 11:21

So then after that, we kind of talked we're like're, like, let's do, let's do a full, let's do an Ironman, and so we signed up. What was the Lake Placid? So we signed up for Lake Placid. It's one of like the really like well-known, like top swim, top bike run course. I actually did that one, did you really yeah, in 2000, 2017. Okay, in 2017, okay, so yeah, awesome, I'd love to hear about that.

Speaker 1: 11:51

So we, so I, I literally like I I had I have a video of me like clicking the button to register. And then I'm like, what have I just done? Because I know that like the going, that distance is going to be way different than what I just um, and so what happened was then covid happened right, like everything got canceled and like which I'll kind of come back to but like I was starting to like put in some work. I was like swimming regularly once a week I was running, you know the, the winter up here, like you know, 15 K in the cold I was signed up for around the Bay again, again just to kind of put things on the calendar to keep me going. But given everything that happened with the gym and the shutdowns and everything like what the hell are we doing, like we're just trying to figure out life at this point? And so I had it run in about a month by the time this around the bay came, came up, which is like end of march, and it, of course, got canceled.

Speaker 1: 12:39

But I was like you know what? I woke up on the day of I'm like I'm gonna, I'm gonna do it, but I'm gonna run a marathon like I'm gonna. I'm up on the day of I'm like I'm going to, I'm going to do it, but I'm going to run a marathon Like I'm going to, I'm going to do the same course and I'm going to add a little bit to it, and I'm going to run my first marathon Like I'm not going to think about this. I'm, I'm, I'm an unofficial, totally unofficial. Cool, yeah, yeah.

Speaker 1: 12:59

And which was the weirdest time to do it? Because there was nobody, nobody out there, yeah, nobody. Like it was freaky. I ran by a hospital. So this is so I decided to take my phone with me and like record different segments, just because I knew it was going to be crazy, but I had no idea how. And like I had this really emotional moment running by the hospital. I'm like I don't know what's going on in there right now and again, this is two weeks in. You know all you're hearing is just like this is not good, right. And so, yeah, I mean the quick story of that is I had I had a planned spot to meet Lacey, I think like 30 K, so I read 30 K three hours probably best long run I've ever done. She like refilled me with like a Targo, like a carb supplement, basically, and and then I think it was like 30 like.

Speaker 1: 13:49

Not long after, like 30, 31, 32k or something like that, wheels fell off and I started clamping hard, like to the point where I was like I don't know if I can keep doing this. I don't know if I can keep running, so I'm stopping like so I'm literally videoing myself in pain, I'm stretching up against a pole. I had just gone into to a convenience store and I begged her. I'm like I need salt. I'm doing this thing. It's not going to make sense to you, but I need a coke and I don't have any money and she gave it to me. She bought it. She like basically bought it for me and I was't have any money and she gave, she gave it to me. She bought, she like basically bought it for me, and I was like I had like tears in my eyes. Who knows what the hell she was thinking. But so, anyway, I drink that.

Speaker 1: 14:35

And then I was just like such a low point. And then so I so I'm this is while I'm videoing myself completely unplanned. I had no idea how, how Lacey was getting home, but she was taking the route home and drove by me and hauled and he's getting me right now. It was just so unplanned and I just needed something to pick me up and I just started like crying. I'm like what is happening to me right now, right. And then I start going again and anyway it was super dark for like I don't know the next, like like 4k, and then I got through that hard stretch and I got to this, like I don't know, the sun came out again and I could hear the birds chirping and I just like I just got a second wind anyway, finish the thing. It was super hard and so again, these things are kind of like building a little bit right, and then I finished it.

Speaker 1: 15:21

Yeah, when you finished it before we went was lacy at the finish. Well, the finish is, was my house. So you what? Walked in the door and you're like I'm, I'm home, I'm done. What was that? Yeah, yeah, there's a picture of me laying on the ground and in the bathtub with like a two liter bottle of coke and I was like I I didn't even know what to do with myself Like there was no finish line, it was just you stopped and I was like my watch says like fastest marathon ever. I'm like, okay, cool, it's versatile, but I'm like there's no, there's nothing. I said, okay, now here's the rest of your day. That's fascinating For multiple reasons, because one, it's like I totally agree with you that the emotional highs and lows during these events is, for at least me, it's unlike anything else I experience on a day-to-day basis.

Speaker 1: 16:17

It's like I don't know if it's just like if it builds like before the event and during the event, and then it's just like you release at the end. But it's like I too get like near teary-eyed at the end, as I'm like crossing the finish line because my wife and kids are there, or even at one or two events, like they haven't been there because it just didn't line up, but like knowing that I did it and that they encouraged me along the way and that they're learning the lessons along the way that I'm like transferring to them. So emotional I'm, like I'm not an emotional guy, I feel like, but like there's something about doing these events where, like it peaks on the emotional register Absolutely the, my, the draw, like I'm not good at them, like what you know, like when I go and do these things, like I'm getting you know my my first, you know, I ran through the 5k in 23 minutes, which is fast, and then for the rest of it I was getting passed by like grandmothers and stuff, like I'm not good at going long, but I just I the reason why I love the idea of when, when, when you kind of exhaust yourself physically, like, like I mean, take yourself to the point where, like you'd quit, like you're done, but let's see what happens, like let's see what happens, the point where, like you'd quit, like you're done, but let's see what happens. Like let's see what happens, let's see what you're made of, let's see what mentally right. So that was the story, the marathon, and like I started, like so during all that we were like navigating all the shutdowns but we'd also just experienced like a fourth miscarriage in a row and basically started learning about like we might not be able to start a family and we're learning about all the alternatives and surrogacy and like, with both of us being athletes all of our lives, like for everything that I've done.

Speaker 1: 17:53

Lace is like a super athlete, like she has twice as many track medals as me. She took up weightlifting through crossfit and like broke national records and was like an Olympic alternate and like made the world team and all that stuff. But so, anyway, we both the context of it, we we've both been able to control so much of our effort to to get outcomes that we wanted, and we just had no control over this. And so I started talking about, like with my gym members, the idea of doing hard things to get through harder things, which for everybody at the time was like navigating this world. That was like shutting down, but in my mind it was like distant second, like not, you know, I couldn't really talk about what we, what was happening with us, because, like there's just there's not a resolution to it or anything yet, right, so the so fast forward another year.

Speaker 1: 18:44

The iron man had been moved. Our registrations carried forward to 2021, july 2021, but, given that lacey's sister, heidi, carried our son. He was born like a week before that race was going on and so, like that's a whole nother story, but like knowing that I wasn't going to be able to do that, we set up our own event, so myself and darren, and we got a bunch of guys from our gyms to come do it. Some did like a half, some did the full thing. We did 50, 50, 50 and raised a bunch of money for a children's hospital. So it was a 50k bike, 50k run, 50k bike. So it was like 100k of biking with the I mean, what would be considered an ultra.

Speaker 1: 19:21

In in the middle we had a member at the time like again, gym owner to gym owner like you just come across some people that are special sometimes and like this guy was one of those guys and he was going through like late stage cancer like he. He, he passed away like I. There was two babies that some our our guy, little guy leonardo, and another lady had him in the gym, had a baby and he died days after. Like I really think he like stuck around for them in a way, but this is so. That was in july and this was may and he was going like he was. He was in rough shape at that point and he so I coached him for years five, six years probably and he was.

Speaker 1: 20:04

He was like he had an epic pain face like, like he was like a hooten hall or a guy like he and he, he like open finishing stuff. It always seemed like he was like the last guy in the room and everyone would rally around him, whatever, and it was, it was awesome, but I'd get in his ear and cranium be like hey, stone face, like I don't want to see it. Like, show me that you're not hurting, I know that you are, but like I want you to practice this man like. And so my goal for the 50s was not one outward complaint, not one pain face, not one like this sucks or anything like that. And and I succeeded and it was like I don't, when you take your mind to something that's just like hey, this guy's actually he's died, he's literally dying. What are we doing here? This is easy, right. So that was an interesting experience, something to highlight.

Speaker 1: 20:58

There is the mentality and mindset behind doing hard things and if you're looking at these events specifically and even like when I was coaching in my gym, I would always say when the workout was about to start, I would say this is going to be a good one. Right, I'm like this is going to be a good one, whereas some other people might frame the workout as this is going to suck, this is going to be hard, this is going to be terrible. And, like my main goal as a coach was to get them to reframe the experience as something that's going to give them a positive. It's like you're going to go through something hard but there's going to be benefit at the end and you'll get more benefit if you tell your mind beforehand it's going to benefit you. Right, it's almost like there's going to be less pain because you're telling your body ahead of the experience what it's about to experience. So, absolutely, expectation, right, like I don't. Yeah, it's. It's like there's probably a lot to unpack there, but you're, you're bang on.

Speaker 1: 22:06

So it's like, well, like when I'm going through, let's say, a 50, 50 mile ultra marathon, I pride myself on my discipline of never letting or I want to say never, but very minimally letting negativity creep in, but very minimally letting negativity creep in. So it's like I'll always frame thing in a positive light. It's like, even if I'm going to run 50 miles and I'm five miles in, I'll be like, oh, I'm 10% done, you know. But like I freeze that in a positive way, I'm like, oh, I'm 10% done, this is great. Not, oh, there's 90% left to go. Like you know, it's like just by framing your mindset, like you can either make things a lot better for yourself or a lot harder for yourself. But I feel like it's all in between your ears. That battle of like doing hard things is the discipline of your choice and your thoughts.

Speaker 1: 23:03

Here's a question for you Do you find so you've done a bunch of long stuff? Do you find like that mentality it'll get you through? And then, when you start getting close to the finish, it starts to suck? I find it definitely sucks at the end. I mean everything's just accumulating. But I mean like there's almost like that, that like piece of your mind, that's like that, that like piece of your mind, that's like that, that discipline to stay strong and focus on this, and that it's like you don't need, you almost don't need it anymore. Maybe that's what it is. I would probably agree with you, because the closer you get to finishing and the more you know it's going to happen, cause it's never a guarantee. But like the closer you get you I'm gonna get it. Like I'm almost there, I have like two miles to go, like I'm gonna make it, even if I have to crawl, walk or, you know, just make my way there. But like I feel like there is a little bit of give in the mindset of all right, things are starting to hurt a little bit, but I'm almost there so I can manage it, I can take it maybe.

Speaker 1: 24:03

Maybe it's that emotional dump at the beginning of that, and I remember doing a 50 miler and I think it was at like mile 45 or like 42, but somewhere close to the end where, like I knew I was getting there but I started getting really emotional. My race wasn't even done yet. I was like I still have eight miles to go. I was framing in a positive way of like, oh, I still have eight miles to go. I was framing in a positive way of like, oh, I only have eight miles to go, this is great. But I never conceptualized how long eight miles was going to take in my current state of of fitness like 42 miles, and like I was moving slow. So I still, oh, yeah, go, and it got. I think I remember getting teary-eyed a little bit, being like oh yeah, still got eight miles to go when that marathon, when I say it got dark for a while I'd gone from six-minute kilometers to eight and a half.

Speaker 1: 24:53

And now you're like okay, my mind always just works, it's projecting what do I have left, what do I have to do. And it's like, okay, you only have like three or 4k left, but it's not, it's not at the same pace. It's now you start thinking, oh, my God, I'm like I have like another whole 50, 60% of this time to go. And it's like that's, you don't want to start thinking like that. It's not good, it's not good. That's that's where that mental battle comes in and I feel like, right, that's that's where maybe the undisciplined can lose that battle of like a dnf or they start walking earlier when they could be jogging or you know any number of things, but like that's where the battle is lost, right there. Yeah, I think that there's.

Speaker 1: 25:38

There's like when you're going into these things, you almost have to set up a few non-negotiables. You know like, like I I mean I but there's again, there's always things that could happen, like you could have to get medically pulled or something like that. Like you don't want to be completely boneheaded, right, what would you say? Your non-negotiables are, safety aside, totally, yeah, um, well, well, I mean, I think I talked about a couple of them.

Speaker 1: 26:04

The first half marathon it was do not stop running, it doesn't matter how slow, but do not lose that. I'm not walking. Not for one step For the 50s. It was no outward complaint, no outward show of negative emotion. Right, that's what comes to mind. I'm sure there was other ones, but those ones kind of stick out to me.

Speaker 1: 26:27

I think the other one that you mentioned earlier on was a visualization. So, like, I think it was in the half marathon You're talking about visualizing, well, that was leading your parents going. That was what kept me going. Yeah, yeah, yeah, it wasn't. I had to take myself outside of me, because that was the first one. I was totally unexpected, like I did not think it was going to go that way. I mean, to just have the awareness, to be outside of yourself and to see yourself doing something but then leading others. I think that's extremely powerful in itself, right there, that's pretty incredible. So now we're at the hike, now we're at the big one, the one that I was like, hey, this is the hardest physical thing I've ever done and this was like my Masogi.

Speaker 1: 27:18

But I think I hope that these other stories kind of give it context that, like, I've been doing these things for a while in a number of different ways without really knowing, like I just my idea, and it's basically the idea of Misogi, right, it's one thing a year. And like, if everything goes perfect, you you might finish it. You might not, like you might have a it's like a 50% chance of success, right, and yeah, my thinking of it was like I, I want, I want to physically reach that failure point to see mentally what happens. Right, yeah, so now we're at the height. So again, this is with Darren.

Speaker 1: 27:55

So he, he, during the, the one of the toughest points of this, he reminded me, he like leaned into me, it's like I am in your life to make you uncomfortable. Yeah, I just laughed. I just laughed right, because, like I love that we did the half iron try, we did the 50s. And so this is another thing that, like I, I didn't plan for it, like I didn't even know it was happening, I just said yes to it. So the context of it is that he he's got a um, he's got a guy in his gym that is like a multi-millionaire, like he was. He was like born into money, but also like him and his wife have developed this um tutoring company that's gone like north america and like came into money, whatever he's. He's a successful dude but like kind of like you know lives, the luxurious, lavish right. And Darren, you know he's like, am I, you're allowed to curse on this on this show? Yeah, go for it.

Speaker 1: 28:59

Darren basically wanted to take him to the woods and fuck him up. That's that's you know. He wanted to strip him down, basically like and and like. That's what this hike was. And so he asked me I think I don't know how I maybe he asked me, maybe I don't know, I don't know. I think he asked me like three to four weeks out. I was like, yeah, yeah, I'll go. So it was the La Cloche silhouette trail. It's an. It's like a 85 ish, 80, 85 ish kilometer hike. It's a. It's a big loop up in, like Northern Ben Killarney, like Northern Ontario. Basically it's pretty, it's harsh and it's pretty harsh terrain, like Canadian shield, rock, rocks and roots basically, and that was what this was.

Speaker 1: 29:47

Uh, so, mental prep, like I know you, I like mental prep. Like I think part of doing these things and like really getting the true, like you know, misogi experience is there is no being ready for it. Like, I think, to truly experience it, you know, even if you're you're super trained up and fit and everything, like you have to pick something where you just don't know how it's going to go right, like it can't be, for example, it can't be, for example, it can't be a marathon if you've run 20 miles. I agree, no, that's not it, right, yeah, yeah. So, so, like, get into the hike. So, let's see.

Speaker 1: 30:31

Let me ask this when you're invited on this hike and you told Lacey about it, what was her reaction? We, she, she's super supportive of me doing stuff like this. She kind of knows I'm maybe like wired a little differently. Like I don't think she has any, I don't think she has any desire to do something like that, like, and not not to say she's not into like hard things, like, but, but just different, right, like, even after this of you, yeah, we kind of planned for me to be away for a couple of days and yeah, yeah, and I mean, even after the hike, I think we we camped like four times after. After that we're just like you know, family camping, campsites and everything. But she, even at the end of the summer, she's like I think I'm done with that for a bit.

Speaker 1: 31:16

And and I was like, no, so how many dudes went on the hike? Four, four of you, which is perfect. So, basically, this is Doc Woods hiking. Everything is on your back. I mean, I probably spent, god, I don't know $1,500, $2,000 prepping for this thing.

Speaker 1: 31:36

I was like I said yes to it, and then it was like I send him a picture my like old, broken down winter boots. I'm like, are these okay? And he's like, if you want to die, oh god, okay. And then the more I learn, I'm like, okay, I gotta buy, I gotta buy this, I gotta buy the pack, I gotta buy a headlamp, I gotta buy it. Just, it just never ends like and it's, and I and started to realize like this is something you can't under prepare for, and so that that was the part that started making me like nervous, like I, I, I did, I did like a test pack out, like probably three times. And and like I sent him the videos, I'm like, am I missing anything Right Like it. It started to like as I got closer to it, like the day before I was, I was super nervous. Like super nervous, didn't know how this is going to go, didn't know what I was doing.

Speaker 1: 32:24

You guys have any kind of emergency, not escape plan, but like if something went off the rails, like, say, someone got a broken leg, what was your plan? Your response? This is different. Like organized one thing, but this is different. Marathon, like organized marathon, is one thing, but this is out in the woods. I would say it's almost like more misogi-esque, like being out in nature without organization, like you're out there on yourself. It's so different. It could have gone bad, it could. If you get injured out there, it's bad, it's not's not good. You have to get out. We, yeah, we didn't have what are the like a satellite phone. We didn't like that's probably looking back, that's probably stupid not having that. But again, like I don't know, that's probably what I'm going to say. How would it help you? It's like, well, it might. You know, if you need to get a helicopter or something in there, it's that it'll help you. But, yeah, there's a feeling that Like that's, that's part of this and it got.

Speaker 1: 33:28

It got sketchy for a bit, which I'll get into, where you know that you have to succeed, like there isn't there, there's not a quit button, you can't, and, and, until it gets really sketchy and like something happens, you don't know what that means. I love it so, true Cause like you're doing a marathon, you can just pull off the side and be like, oh, I'm done. You know, let's get in the car and go home. But you're out in the woods on a mountain. You have to get home. There's no option. Yeah, so I'll kind of get into it.

Speaker 1: 34:06

So, like it was a four-day, so you go out and it's like, hey, look, closh Silhouette Trail, you can do it either way, clockwise, counterclockwise, and it warns you there, clockwise, and it warns you as there's like a warning as you go out, big sign. It's like there isn't like a jump off point, like this is a point you know. Like you're going out into this, be prepared, and if you don't know what that means, probably shouldn't be doing it. But it's like a seven to ten day hype they recommend and we were aiming to do it in like three and a half. Why the time difference? We did it in three and a half. You're like we're just going to speed walk it.

Speaker 1: 34:46

Or what was the? That was Darren, that was just for the ride, like that was his. He organized this thing. We had we booked campsites and everything. Like you know, there was like boom, boom, boom. I think the plan it was like really backloaded, like I think our first day was supposed to be like 18 kilometers and then our our it was like building and then our last day was like 33 or something. Oh, wow, yeah. So, yeah, the, the packs like.

Speaker 1: 35:14

So again, my, my perception of what it was going to be and what it actually was very different. Like one of my coaches who did the the round the bay with us stephens his name, he did the 50s with us too and just crushed it. Like he just he's another guy, just steps in, he's like, yeah, I'll do it. He did a thing years ago. He was, he was he's a firefighter now, but he was going through to like military and so he did this thing called the process and it's it's basically like organized by former, like um, canadian american special forces and they take you up into the woods basically same thing northern ontario and they you're up there for a week and I think there was 21 guys that he went with and only seven didn't quit. And he was one of them and like, again, that's they're his stories to tell. I think he's been on podcasts talking about it.

Speaker 1: 36:06

But that I was like what was it? Where is I going with him? Oh, right, so I was. I was asking him. I was like what, what do I need to be prepared for? He's like the cold. He's like I've never been so cold in my life. I was like huddled between dudes. It's like not all of you are like oh, like I'm not going to like cuddle with a dude. It's like you want to stay alive, you want to keep your fingers, like that type of thing right. And so I was like like I was really nervous about the cold. We actually got really good weather. The. It just turned into the hardest physical thing I've ever done. So like that's. Yeah, my perception was a little bit different. So basically, day one, it went a little bit longer. It was pretty chill. We got to our like it was all fun and everything um.

Speaker 1: 36:56

Day one, actually darren. So three things happened on day one where, like people like first guy slipped, it was like oh, that could have been bad. And then the next guy went down, like smash his knee. I was like guys, like don't get hurt. And then we were crossing a river and darren lost his balance and fell backward into the river like, oh boy, like, and we're in a 60-pound pack, he's belly up, he's freaking out, he's like pull me out of this and you're soaked, you're absolutely soaking wet. At that point he internally lost it. He just went speedwalking way ahead of us and just had to cool off.

Speaker 1: 37:36

It was all good, but that stuff happening on day one was kind of like like taking seriously right, and so, anyway, we get to our campsite. We got there pretty early. It was cool. We, we set up campfire, we ate and everything, and it was everything was like pretty, I don't know, pretty chill. It was like this is awesome, we have like two hours to three hours to like just hang out. We slept in the next day, we, we got, I think we got up at like eight or something and we, we we went out at not, we've sat on the trail like nine o'clock.

Speaker 1: 38:09

And then day two, I broke, I was the first one, so we hit some wicked elevation, like I think we did a thousand feet up and down or something like that that day and I and I didn't fully grasp how much, like, how much you had to fuel. So like water, food salt, all of it, I I was in the mindset of like saving it for later, when it was going to get really hard, and I was. I'm also like I'm 100, I'm like 5, 9, 5, 10, 170 pounds, like I was. So context like back into like I was great at crossfit and like lifting and moving, but if you it was like here, carry this. That's where there's so many people better than me at that type of stuff.

Speaker 1: 38:53

I'm not like the most durable human. I've got like a 30 inch waist. Yeah, I just, I just I don't know. I'm not like the most durable human. I've got like a 30 inch waist. Yeah, I just, I just I don't know I'm not made to do it or whatever, but I'm still going to try. So how heavy was your pack? I I want to say like 55, 60 pounds. Darren's might've been 70. Cause he had to carry a bit more gear and like two guys were carrying tents.

Speaker 1: 39:18

So what makes when I say like saving my stuff for later, you ever watch the show alone? I've seen like drop people off in the woods. There was a guy that got. There was a guy that was crushing it and got pulled out because of weight loss. Like you. You look at this guy. He was completely like out of his mind at this point. Yeah, and he had, he had, he had like salted and dried, like he had like 33 fish that he, like, was saving and not eating and to the point where he got pulled out medically because he lost too much weight.

Speaker 1: 39:44

But I was like putting off, like eating enough, basically, and drinking and all that. So we fell off pace because of me. Like we went through you know, like if you're like really suffering, your back tightens up and in like a long cross at workout and you're just like, oh, you're like, you're just suffering, that's what it was for, like I don't know, they're like a good hour and a half. It was just like I couldn't that. That whole like no outward, that was gone. Like I was suffering hard and and so we had.

Speaker 1: 40:14

We eventually had to stop and I just I ate, I ate and then ate, I ate as much as I could. It was all like these freeze-dried meals you have to boil water and all that. Yeah, yeah, got as much. I was like I'm looking through sodium content. I'm like, give me all of it. And that was awesome. And so I actually started to feel good and I was like, guys, I'm going to I took a bunch of video of this too.

Speaker 1: 40:39

I was like I'm going to, I'm going to set off a little bit ahead of you, guys, if you're, if you're cool with it. Like I had to, like I like prove myself again, cause I was folding us up so bad, like we were off pace, like we weren't going to make our campsite Uh, we had, which means you don't make the next one, which means your trip is now maybe four or five days, right, like I basically fucked up the trip. And so I set off and and I was like, okay, they're gonna catch me like quickly. And they didn't, and I just kept. I was like that made me feel good and I was like I was like I'm, I feel like. I feel like like a, I feel like the rabbit right now, like I gotta get out on these guys. I gotta I got, I got when they finally catch me, I got to have them like basically say like hey, you're bad, like you know you, you you're not a decent kid right now. Basically, right, so I've got a little company. Yeah, it was.

Speaker 1: 41:35

It was I was like the fourth guy and, like you know, we we very intentionally wanted to switch up the order, but I couldn't get myself up to like be in the mix again. I was just like I'd suffer. And then they were stopped for like two minutes while I like get myself up there and then like, okay, let's go again. And then all of a sudden I fall behind again. It's not a good feeling, right, and so that the end of day two, like I, I basically like depleted again completely and we had to go, like down this huge steep hill and it was like it's scary, like it's. It's scary when you just your muscles aren't working, like the, the elevation, the climbing smokes, your hips and your quads, so much that now, when you're coming down, you don't have the ability to like break and slow down. So it's like, and so now my knee started to get really bad because, like I'm always, I feel more comfortable stepping down with my right versus my left. But if I can't slow myself down, boom, I'm smashing, like I'm just joint on or bone on bone joint right, and so, like my joints started to hurt really bad. And anyway, day two, it ends pretty rough.

Speaker 1: 42:45

We get there the second night. The second night was kind of neat. Like we got woken up, there was like wolves and stuff around Like you could hear them, like it was like they weren't that far away either. That was my first experience ever with that, like they weren't that far away either. That was my first experience ever with that. And there was like there was like three of them and they were like triangulating like you could hear them, oh my gosh, hating with each other. Yeah, I was like, wow, it was like I, I, I, I reached it, like I, I brought, I brought. Like we, like we stopped putting knives beside us, bear mace beside us and everything. I was gonna ask her anything for defense. Yeah, we probably should have had more, but again, I don't know. And so day three.

Speaker 1: 43:22

So the end of day two was very different, daring, kind of. Like you know, the military guy took charge, call us some names. He's like we're up at five in the morning, we're packing out with the red headlamp and that's it. We're getting back on track, basically. And so there was four of us. So darren and chris, so those are the two guys like darren darren's background, like he's like maybe six, six, one like two, two hundred, two, ten maybe, but like big, strong guy but also like endurance type athlete. And then chris, who's like pretty similar, like example, we talked about the workout Chad. You know the thousand step ups. So I was going to do lots of other fast stuff, but I'm like I've done it once and it was 80 minutes and it sucked and so like that's the they. They were just so much faster.

Speaker 1: 44:09

So how we started day three was myself and Adrian the guy who was let's take him out and fuck him up in the woods. We started off basically like I don't know an hour earlier and just like we and it was super cool, I got to get to know this guy, like he's a super interesting guy and we. And then we stopped at some point, I think eight or nine k, and we stopped and like aiden had coffee and everything, and then again they let us go and just get ahead, and and then the plan. So this is this is the story where it starts to get not good the, the plan. So there's an extra, there's an extra hike to the. It's called silver peak, I think it's called basically the highest point and it's, but it's off the trail.

Speaker 1: 44:55

And so Chris and Darren were like like we're gonna do this, we're gonna drop our packs at the bottom, go do it. And like we'll, we'll like catch up to you guys and meet them. And we're like absolutely not, like we're. We're already at the point of like you can't quit. So in my mind, I'm like it by two. It's already the hardest physical thing I've done, partly, I think, because you know you can't quit. But like how do you just have to keep going? There's no, there's no, there's no question. And so, like we weren't adding anything to it, right. And so, anyway, we're going and like Hours in man, like we're hitting I think we're hitting like 19k, 20k now, and so now you're going for a long time.

Speaker 1: 45:42

And so the two of us, we're, we're, we're done at this point. Like we're, we need to eat, we need to drink and all that stuff, and so the only way to do that is we need to find water to boil and all that. And so we had to go off the trail to to, to, like a small lake, and and find that Right. And so this is this is a big mistake that we made is don't ever send like, especially when you're split up, cause we decided to split up and they were going to catch us. We sent both of us off the trail and it was like it was raining, it was shitty, like we're all wet and everything, and like wearing our rain gear, which you sweat more, and so wet and everything, and like wearing our rain gear, which you sweat more. And so we go in and we're like, okay, we're gonna be quick, and like, like you sit down and like you can't get up, like your legs and your hips just don't want to get up, and so, but we knew like, okay, back to the trail, and in that time I don't know how long it was the guys passed us. Oh, wow, they passed us.

Speaker 1: 46:35

And so like sorry to give this context, our cell phones don't work out there either, like you might have one or two points to the day where you get a signal right and you don't know where, you have no idea where. And so we had power bank, like Darren carried a power bank, and but I was like we didn't plan to split up, that was never in the plan, and so I was like I didn't charge my phone. And so the first time that, when we split off, I think my phone was at, so Adrian's phone, because he was using the AllTrails app drained it down, his is dead, mine is at 11%. And this is when we started to like think this is not good. Like we're split up, it's I don't know what time of day it might be, like five o'clock or something and is it basically the two beginners, you know, and then the two experts, okay, yes, and the other guys have the tents now, okay, yeah, yeah. And so we're short, we're. I'm sending darren a message and trying, we're trying, to call. In the meantime I'm like turn the phone off, like power down, and then I, you know, I turn it back on to see if, you know, we get anything. And now it's at seven percent and like this happens probably, man, I, I think it went down to four percent. So, so during this time, once we wouldn't.

Speaker 1: 47:59

This this is, this is like a weird part of it where, like, we started talking about all of our options, like we talked a bit, so we were we had 35k to go, I think, maybe at that point, and we talked about a little little bit more. Yeah, yeah, because it was so backloaded right, and so we talked about a little little bit more. Yeah, yeah, because it was so backloaded right, and so we talked about like what the fuck do we do? Like we, we don't. We had food and we had stuff and he had a jet boil on him, thank god, but we didn't have shelter. So we're like, do we we? It was the dumbest idea ever. We decided against it. We, we talk, do we we? It was the dumbest idea ever and we decided against it.

Speaker 1: 48:38

We, we do we like drop our packs and keep headlamps and just go for the parking lot and get the hell out of here? That would have been the absolute worst decision, because the trail is hard enough to stay on. Like every however many feet, there's like a blue thing on a tree and like you get off track sometimes, like it happened multiple times and we had to like figure ourselves out, but like, yeah, in the night, like that's that good luck. So what we anyway? What we? What we landed on? Like, if it came to it, we just didn't find them as like we'll just basically like put our sleeping bags together and like, stay warm and we'll sleep under a tree and hopefully not get picked on by any animals, because they're everywhere up there, like you don't know. You don't know, but they know where you are.

Speaker 1: 49:25

Your mindset, what was the mindset of the two of you right now? Oh, dude, okay, so I had something, I experienced something that I've never experienced before and it was the craziest thing and it lasted about an hour, because this is not a short time. So I'm telling this story like, oh, it's like okay, it was like this. And then this right, um, during that time where we realized like we might not meet up with these guys, like we don't know where they are, and they, we realized they, they might have passed us and they weren't stopping, because how would we let them know, right, if they can't get our self-signal, our message right, I had like survival adrenaline kick in. Yeah, so again, 10 hours, 20k, in which tells you how that slow we were going I felt nothing. I'm and it's so hard to like explain, but I felt nothing for like an hour.

Speaker 1: 50:17

It was literally like you do whatever you need to do and and and your body just summoned up these reserves that you didn't know were there and I was like scaling rocks, like I swear to god, I went up this like rock cliff, like freaking spider-man man and dare, and like adrian was kind of like he kind of it was happening to him too, but like I don't think as much. And he out and I was like I was like dude, like get on my fucking back. If you need to like you know, like that type of thing and and and like just take, like taking the again the lead, taking the lead right, and then about an hour into this of like we kicked up our pace and everything and like again we're talking about all these alternatives and like what if? And then our phone, the phone dings. Yeah, that like no, the phone dings, like they like a message from these guys. Yeah, what does that? Like we passed you and we're turning around. How did they know they passed you? Cause we were. We sent them as much info as we can, like we've gone off at site number 34, 33 and we're this and this and this. Like we tried it. If the message went through, they would know what to do. Okay, right, and and they're like they had. Yeah, I got emotional there when, like my phone was at 4%, 4%, like that's, that's. And then, yeah, they turned around and the crazy thing, as soon as that message came through, done back to just absolute toast, because you know it's right. And so the thing was like we had another man, I think we had another like seven, maybe six, seven, eight K to go.

Speaker 1: 51:59

And again, this, this was like the hardest like, and we got the site that we had to go to. So we had to. We had to go to a site that we didn't book and just hope that there weren't people there which, like it's the time of year, like if we had done this trip two weeks later, the bugs would have been just like they'll leave you alive. So you have to do it early enough. But so, like there's a chance, it's good. You don't know, you don't know. And so this, this, this site, was like so far off the trail but I was like I can't even go with you guys to check, like I need you to go check and then, if we can go, then hoot and holler and yell at me and I'll come in. But I'm not doing anything extra right now.

Speaker 1: 52:41

It's like because you're so bad, everybody, so everybody was so drained that night that our, our site was like a really weird one. It was this lake beside us, this like cult. There's. There's some lakes up there with how the sediment goes. It's like this color of blue that it's so beautiful and like that's what we were right on. But it was like we were off on this like cliff and there was. So at night what we were doing was like we're taking all our food and all of our food waste and everything and putting it in a bag and hanging it up in a tree like whatever. 500 meters away everybody was was so toast. We didn't do that. That night we slept with the stuff in our tents.

Speaker 1: 53:26

I remember going to bed and Darren basically saying, if the animals, they can fucking come get it with his knife in his hand. It was not good. You're like four dudes that are like just their width and type thing. So what was that? Can you speak to? What? Darren and the other guys emotional response was like what were they feeling like and what were they going through when they realized they lost you guys and had to come back. Right, man, I don't, I don't know, like, like, I kind of don't know that. Then what? This morning, when I was kind of like thinking about all this stuff again, I was like their experience of this is probably so different than mine. Yeah, yeah, right, and I don't know. Like it's not good, it's still not good. It's like you, we lost the rookies. That's not good, right, and and like before we went to bed, we were laying in the in the tent and he was we're, we're just talking a little right. And and like before we went to bed, we were laying in the in the tent and he was we're, we're just talking a little bit more. And like he, he told me about a story when he was going through training, basically to become the queen's command.

Speaker 1: 54:28

I was like they went through their kind of like hell week thing and he, he told me at the, so they had these like brutal tests that they had to do every, every, every day, and at the end it was I might get the numbers wrong, but I think it was a 30 mile rock that they had to do under a certain time I think it was like nine hours he had like cut his knee and it was like swelling and infected and so, like he knew. So he, this is. So this this gives context of the guy that set this trip up. If you don't make the time, you're out, but if you get. So he told me he's like I knew that if I got medically pulled, that that doesn't count, they don't kick me out. And he's like. He's like I, I knew as I was. He's like. He told me, as he was falling off pace, he thought about like intentionally, like breaking his leg with, like somehow finding a way to break his leg so he got pulled, so he could still be on the team, like that's the guy that set up this trip and and like I knew him pretty well but like I didn't know quite like his military side, and now I just found myself like in it, yeah, awesome, to the degree of like a hike in the woods, not military, right, but yeah, dude. And so that was we.

Speaker 1: 55:43

We woke up the next day. Everyone again, everything's just compounding, but that, that was that. That's the story. That like it was bad, it was. It was bad for a bit. So that was the end of day three. That was the end of day three. That was the end of day three. We should have had the way it was scheduled. We should have had like we wake up, we cook some breakfast, we have 2K to the finish and like go home. We had another 14K to go on the on the final day. So it was pretty rough too, yeah, and not much to say on the fourth day than just like you, just like this feeling of like we've made it, but we just have to get there Right.

Speaker 1: 56:25

Did you guys talk, or was it like silence? Did you realize the enormity of what had just happened or did not really like gone on, you guys, how serious that was? It was pretty silent on day four for a while. Yeah, I can see that, yeah, yeah, yeah. Was it was pretty silent on day four for a while? Yeah, I can see that, yeah, yeah, yeah, it was, it was. Yeah, I'm trying to think back. I'm like no, day one we talked a lot. Those first, you talk a lot when, when it, when it gets serious, that that comes down, when I even when I think of myself and adrian, like when it kind of like shit got, went sideways like we, we didn't talk quite as much. Right, it was, it was scary, yeah, it was, it was scary and and and it was like I thought, like I and we even talked about, like the emotion, like we, we the emotional release of like when you finish, and like I thought there was going to be more, but it actually happened when we found the guys on day three, like that that was, that was the. That was the crazy part, right?

Speaker 1: 57:22

Earlier, you talked about your non-negotiables of not stopping moving, no hour complaints and visualization. Did you use any of those during this hike and especially the time of when you guys got separated? It's different. It's different when you're in a situation where you can't there, that you can't quit, like so. So I think I think all of those things are at play, whether you want them to be or not.

Speaker 1: 57:50

You know, did you have to go deeper to anything new to help push you forward, or was it enough? Oh yeah, I'm like those three things. No, I mean because it's just a feeling I've never experienced. I've never. I've never been in a situation where, like they're hard to find, where you like you. You're in this thing where it's like really hard and you can't not only can you not quit, but you have to succeed. You have to get out any thoughts of, uh, lacy or leonardo, as, uh, all guys got separated, absolutely. That's what made me think let's drop the packs and just get the hell to the parking lot, like just do whatever it takes. Like not stop, like, just just go.

Speaker 1: 58:37

I don't know how far that adrenaline would have taken me, but I don't know. But yeah, I thought about them a lot. I'd have a. I had a video that came through. She sent me on day one I think there was like a little video of, like he's like hi, daddy, good luck on your hike, daddy, yeah, yeah, like, yeah, you go back to that a couple times, but when you're in that you just have to go. You can't start watching this. It might sound weird, but it can soften you when you just can't have that happen.

Speaker 1: 59:12

So I think I heard it has a 40% rule. Have you heard this? No, and I've listened to his stuff. Oh, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah. So he says we only use 40% of our capabilities. Yeah, okay, for Dave Goggins Coming back.

Speaker 1: 59:25

So, like if you were to think about this Misogi, how far do you think it pushed you? Do you think it pushed you to 80% of your capability? Like, how much farther do you think you could have gone or you could have survived? Like, where was that threshold? Gosh, that's a good question. I don't know, man. Like where my head goes to.

Speaker 1: 59:49

Like first thought through my head was, like, could I have done another two days of like the same volume. If I had to. Yeah, like you just have to get out For kind of like I mean, I don't know, I don't know, yeah, you do, you have to, you have to get out. The other thing that came into play too and where it started on day two, when I, when I talked about, like I was slowing us down, we'd only plan for so much food as well, like talked about like I was slowing us down, we'd only plan for so much food as well, like that's a whole another factor into it where, like again, like the I don't know, I guess the slower you go, you maybe you don't need to keep up with as much food and the faster you go, you better keep fueling.

Speaker 1: 1:00:27

Right, I did an in-body. So I I had this thought. I was like I need to do an in-body, like that machine and matters, body comp and all that. Right, I did one before and directly after. Like the day the day after I got back, I lost six pounds of body fat and put on two pounds of muscle again, plus or minus, whatever room for error. But like that was like I don't know, 30, 35 hours of carrying a 60 pound pack on your back over four days.

Speaker 1: 1:00:57

So I find that, like, when people sign up or they do these misogies like obviously it pushes you to your limits or beyond your limits. But one of the biggest factors of like learning is usually nutrition. Yeah, that's been just fascinating. Like that's been all, all of them, it's no matter. It's like it's like no matter what event I sign up for, I know I know my legs can handle it, I know my heart and lungs can handle. But it's like, can I fuel myself properly to sustain for the duration of the event and to make me perform the way I want to? And that's always the limiting factor Right, so that your, your legs actually work Exactly, they'll stop. They will stop working. Like you said, if you don't have enough salt, they're going to cramp. If you don't have enough hydration, you're going to cramp. You don't have enough food. Eventually you will cramp. Like that's the first thing.

Speaker 1: 1:01:51

To fail Usually, what's funny, yeah, to fail usually what's funny, yeah. And then it just goes downhill and your mind will follow the funny thing that the, the half iron cry. That went like really well that was. I did a test day of like it was like a one kilometer swim and 80 80k bike and a 14k run. So it was a big day and it was all though, seeing what I needed, right, but the again the temperature is way different. I did, I started at six in the morning and and like it just, I finished earlier and like the day that we had it was like late September and it was crazy hot Like I don't record temperature, but like really hot, but that one went really well and so that my plan.

Speaker 1: 1:02:29

So, cause you can't, you can only carry so much nutrition on a run and a bike, like you want to kind of stay light, I was through my entire nutrition plan halfway through the bike. I just kind of instinctively knew, and so I, like you know, there was one spot where there's a hockey net where you get your water balls into and they'll give you a new one, and and then the, the, the running aid stations. I probably took in five times what I expected to, yeah, yeah, and that was the one that went best of all of them and still sucked. But yeah, and I feel like you can't truly learn your individualized nutrition without putting yourself through the paces, like you mentioned, like there's only so much you can read from a book. Like everybody requires a little bit different based on the weather. Are you a heavy sweater? Your light sweater? It's humidity, this, that, right.

Speaker 1: 1:03:20

Like there's so many factors we're like maybe in the future, in five or ten years, they'll be able to say, oh, you need exactly this. Like even right now it's still. You have to put yourself through the paces of your training and like learn, okay, that wasn't enough carbs, I need more. Right, right and and like and you might have the perfect plan. And then it just doesn't work. Like I, during that like year or two span, I, I, I was like watching the iron man and all that. And like there's guys, some the year, every year, there's guys and girls that are expected to do well that drop out and look like they're gonna die or or like just fall off the face of the map. And then some other drop out and look like they're going to die or or like just fall off the face of the map and then some other guy comes out of nowhere. They're like we didn't expect this guy.

Speaker 1: 1:04:04

So, from when I did my Ironman at Lake Placid, overall it went well, like I had a good nutrition plan and how much I was going to take in, but I made a slight tweak right before the race. I was like I'm going to put a Snickers bar in my bike aid station bag. I can have a little treat. You know, as I'm riding my bike, I'm like something to look forward to, something. Right, you need it, however. But however, I didn't test it, and so what happened was it ended up backing me up Like I didn't have bad GI distress, but enough that I couldn't get. I forget what they call it. When you're on the bike, when you get in that aerodynamic pose and you put your hands on the handlebars. I couldn't get down in that position. It caused enough discomfort where I couldn't get down. Oh, I had to basically sit upright on my bike. You know like I'm going for a Sunday ride. Yeah, for the duration of Ironman bikes. I remember it was a last minute change that I hadn't tested before, that it didn't completely derail me, but it could have it just slowed me down significantly. So it's like you got to test these things. Yeah, I had a buddy years ago that was trying to qualify for a Boston Marathon and he was like on pace and it was, I mean get message. You know, like it was his GI and basically like type thing that caused him to not make it.

Speaker 1: 1:05:25

What'd you do the Ironman in? I'm curious 14 hours, yeah, I'm looking at my. I have a plaque up on the wall of my first Ironman. I did 14 hours, yeah, yeah, yeah. So that's that's, yeah, that's yeah, that's that's some suffering. Yeah, so I mean, it was. You know, like you, I just kind of sign up for these things to test myself. Yeah, yeah, I signed up for a package deal where I did a half Ironman, I think in Syracuse, and then a full Ironman, like class. It was, like you know, package ticket and I had never, never done any kind of cycling before and I never had competitively swam. So I had, I had. I did have a running background, but I never had them all together.

Speaker 1: 1:06:04

The swim was humbling. I remember a long time of swim. I basically ended up almost like breaststroking for a good portion of it, cause when I entered the water my heart rate was way too high. I spiked my heart rate, I couldn't control my breathing and belay just like running. It's like, if you can't run, jog, if you can't jog, walk. So I was like, okay, I'm gonna at least breaststroke control my breathing was like halfway through the swim that I finally controlled my breathing and got the hang of it, and then, like the second loop through the water, I finally got into my freestyle and I was cruising.

Speaker 1: 1:06:40

But it's like you can't learn these things unless you put yourself through the paces, and you can't put yourself through the paces unless you sign up for them or you like do these events. Engaging in these events, or you know challenges is to learn and grow, and it's like I just find it fascinating the stories that people tell us. So it's like one thing that I'm wondering is like you seem to have this theme or pattern of like you only give yourself a month to train before the event, which I can love and appreciate. But how do you balance being an entrepreneur and a husband and a father with training for these events? I come back to that in a second. Just say that the, the experience, the swim I have the exact same thing. Exact, I side stroke instead of breaststroke, yeah, and like you could tell me that, that this is going to happen ahead of time, or I could tell you that. And it's like I heard modern wisdom, chris williamson. He talked about like that's, it's a 2d lesson, like when you learn it from someone else. It's the 3d lesson when you learn it yourself, right? I thought that was a really cool way to put it.

Speaker 1: 1:07:50

How do I balance it? How do you fit it in? I don't know any. Yeah, I don't know any different. Like I'm just living, I'm living my life. I'm trying to like I have feelings that I don't do enough.

Speaker 1: 1:08:00

Sometimes, like you know, sometimes it's like years in between these things, or like I still like I mean, I train, I train four or five days a week, but like I don't know, yeah, I, I make time, maybe I make time for it. You have to like I might maybe like coming back to just the most simple thing is my workouts live on my schedule. They're not on my schedule but there's a blank on my schedule. I know that's workout time and if I skip it it's not going to happen. And if you do that enough times in a row, you're not going to be happy with it.

Speaker 1: 1:08:32

And I've just been doing it for so long that, like I don't know, I have, like I think, part of the reason why I just jump into these things. Like I don't particularly like endurance training, my body doesn't respond to it all that well. Like I'm a speed power athlete, but now I just don't have the time either. Like and when I like I'm a very flexible schedule and everything but you need like, if you're gonna do an iron man like your, your things are gonna suffer. Right, whether it's your work output or whether it's your the time with your family and like those are family is now more of the non-negotiable for me. So, like, I'll jump into these things and I'll suffer and I'll do them, but I'm not gonna. I'm not gonna put it in like eight hour days or five hour days or whatever the hell you need to do to to prep for them, which means maybe I can't go as crazy as some people would. But, like again, when you find your breaking point, it doesn't. I mean, if our height was, if we were like more trained and more fit, and our height was a hundred K, like what's the difference? Yeah, so I tell a story.

Speaker 1: 1:09:42

It's like I've I too, started doing Masogi's when I didn't even know what a Masogi was, and I think it was 2015. And my first one was a marathon, and I've done pretty much something every year, except for last year, and it was because my wife was pregnant and she had a terrible pregnancy, like super nauseous, throwing up, like bedridden, like the whole bit was terrible. And then I opened my second gym in the late spring, early summer, and I was busy with that and then we had our child in the fall. So, like it was a stacked year. In hindsight I wish I had picked something just smaller in scale, like you're saying so, like yeah, I've done marathons and ultra marathons. Like maybe I should have picked a half marathon and gone for speed.

Speaker 1: 1:10:28

You know something I haven't done that would still challenge me in a different dynamic, because I found that when I didn't have a race or an event on the calendar kind of slacked off I'm going to say a little bit like I didn't push quite as hard. I still worked out, I still ran, I still lifted, but like it was maintaining the status quo and there wasn't any growth in there. Yeah, like other component as an entrepreneur like when I go out for a run I don't wear headphones or listen to music or anything. It's like that's when I get in my flow state and it's when I problem solve and I get creative and I do all these things. So, like from a business standpoint, I feel like not having a Masogi even held me back from professional development and growth too.

Speaker 1: 1:11:15

So it's like my lesson was I, I, I at least need to sign up for something every year. It doesn't have to be this grandiose, you know, 100 mile like super long duration thing, but like I should have picked something, even if it was shorter and more intense option. Yeah, that's interesting because like I, I, I get, I get, I totally get that. Like what first went to my, my ed response to you, which is probably what anyone would tell you, is like you know you're having a family and you're you're growing your family and you're like navigating a second business, like that's enough, right. But then when you weave in, like how it would help you within those things and like focus you a little bit more, right.

Speaker 1: 1:11:56

What's funny is the years in between the hike and the most 2021, the 50s I did two, two spring triathlons. I think I got I don't know, I don't have any stories from them, I just got moving, all right, I didn't respect them, I didn't train for them, I just jumped into them, right, I like that. Yeah, like, I right, like, and one of them went better than the other they were, they were still super fun. Like one of them had like an uphill, like a huge into the wind off. Like we got to the courses, like how are we gonna fight? It was so windy and it was like uphill into the wind but then you knew, coming down and back Like I still have it on. Like the Garmin app, there was a 5K segment that I covered in like just over six minutes. That is flying on a bike and that is like a whole different type of exhilarating.

Speaker 1: 1:12:51

But like again, that whole like I've talked about this with having owned a gym for 13 years, like put something on your calendar, put something on your calendar that scares you a little bit, makes you, makes, keeps you honest, right, like when we did the 50s, we were in the what year was that? I'm in ontario, we were in our fourth covid shutdown like, which is absolutely ridiculous, but we had people. So we we put together like a running program for like the two months that we were shut down and and the. The message was like we're going to run, we're going to build, we're going to prep for it a little bit and you're either going to run five, 10 or a half marathon, except that whatever you choose, you have to go up one. Nice, like the 5k. Like the message is like, guys, you can run a 5k right now, open your freaking door, go do it. But I need you to choose one. And like we were doing 50 at the same time.

Speaker 1: 1:13:50

So people were like, oh okay, like you know, lead the lead the way, type thing, show them. But yeah, just just that's a. That's honestly a thing that I struggle with these days. Being like out of competitive stuff is like there I don't have something. That's like just that thing that I wake up and I'm thriving toward what, but like I don't know but but, but like that's not, that's not necessary. Like I have other areas of my life that like like when I think back to like peak years of like competitive crossfit, like I wasn't an established adult by any sense of the word, right, and so like now we have, like you know, a great life and like have built a family and like somehow, after all these miscarriages and miscarriage, with a second surrogate and all that laces, 36 and a half weeks pregnant, and like that's enough for me, man, like, but at the same time, it's like you, you just keep doing things like we're talking.

Speaker 1: 1:14:50

We're here talking about misogy, right? Yes, I mean you got your hands, yeah, but it's like what do you think the lessons? How old is Leonardo? Three, three and a half, three and a half, yeah, it'll be four in July, july 13th. So I mean, just fast forward, maybe two years. You know he's going to be near six, yeah, and let's say you're doing Another Misogi type event, what do you think he's going to learn from watching you?

Speaker 1: 1:15:18

So we have him in Kid Strong right now for like the last year and a half and it's basically like a little CrossFit for little guys type thing and like it's like fitness and fun and everything. But it's also like eye contact and handshake at the start of it, like handshake and eye contact with the coach at every 11 introduce yourself, and like social public speaking. They get put them up on a little platform. They have to say their name and whatever I my favorite food they also. The mantra is I am strong, right flex hand from the hips, I am brave, two thumbs up, I can do this.

Speaker 1: 1:15:54

And so he's been like woven into that for like the last year and a half and he loves it and I think it's just like he'll get to see me just living that and I think he kind of like he doesn't come to our gym all that much because it's like he's three. It's not like a safe place for him to be when adults are working out and all that, yeah, and like we are, for schedules are like flexible enough we don't have to like bring him to work. But I think, more than anything, he knows that mom and dad go to the gym like every day and he knows that we were involved in that. So I'm not sure if it's like. I think there's more of like. I think, when it comes to like kids and like the, the trickle down, you know the cap skate effect of all that, I think it's the consistency of something rather than the kind of how I'm talking about, how I step into these things, not overly prepared. But when I say I'm not overly prepared, I haven't stopped fitness for the last 25 years either. I'm not just stepping in. So I think it's just leading the way. I'm going to keep doing hard shit until I can't anymore. A hundred percent agree.

Speaker 1: 1:17:01

Strong father, strong kids yeah, I mean I think I love that. It's strong. I love how they teach that. It's so good man strong and I got this, like just to extrapolate that forward 10 years, like if the kids maintain that gonna be a bunch of savages, like just crushing it in life and I think that's so cool. Yeah, that was when I was a kid man.

Speaker 1: 1:17:25

My school year revolved around speeches before them and after them. I was terrified, I hated that, hated it. Oh my god, oh my God. It's public speaking. Come on Right and like just to start it so early that like it's not even a thing. Hopefully you like, cause you can see kids that like don't want to do it. They name a class captain. They're like some of them, you know, hey, you're going to be a class captain. They're like no, no, no, hopefully, hopefully, getting ahead of that he's. I mean, on this dad, what else would you expect me to say? But he's a pretty special kid. Like he, he's, he's everything that I could, you know, like all all the things that I hope that he could embody. Like that he's. He's doing it. You know, he's not, he's not afraid of things. It's great, that's so cool. Yeah, oh, look at his parents. I'll, I'll take that man, thank you.

Speaker 1: 1:18:23

So let me ask you so for dads that might be on the fence about doing a Misogi. Maybe they haven't done one before or they're looking at doing something in the next year. What would you say to encourage them? Well, so I mean, if you're listening to this and this is how you're getting this message, like it's not by accident Either you have done stuff like this and you're like, hey, like this is, you know, this is my guy, I listen to Rob or, for whatever reasons, you've stumbled upon it. Like for whatever reasons of your own, like just just fucking do something. Like stop living on the sidelines, like, if you're thinking about it and you don't do it like that, there's cost of inaction. You've just become someone that doesn't do things now, right, and that's. That's probably how it's going to play out the next time. It's probably the time after that, right, and that's probably how it's going to play out the next time. It's probably the time after that.

Speaker 1: 1:19:17

So what I would say is, so many of the experiences and stories that I have and personal growth, it all comes from just saying yes to things, and it's never not going to be scary, but that's the point, that's part of it, and there's a side of your brain and your experience in this world that will be. It will remain undiscovered unless you do this type of stuff and I know that I'm better for it and people around me are better for it. I mean, we just talked about the cascade of to your, your children, your family, and I think you'd be hard-pressed to find anybody who has done similar stuff who would or could say otherwise. I think that's gold man. I think that is everything right there.

Speaker 1: 1:20:01

It's like when I look back at the things that I've done, I almost sign up without thinking about it. It's like I come across an event. I'm like, oh, that sounds cool or interesting and I sign up for it, but in the process I didn't think about everything I would have to do to lead to a successful outcome in that event, because the enormity of that it's too much to be debilitating. Right, you just won't do it. It's like you won't do. It's like a 50 mile run won't do it. It's like a 50 mile run. No, I'm not doing that. That's stupid. That's like right, if, if you commit to it and then you put yourself through a consistent training plan of learning nutrition, starting to run, learning running technique, you know, doing deload, weeks, doing all the things, and it's like you gradually grow, week by week, month by month. And then you look back six months from now and you're like, holy shit, like I've come a long way, I've learned a lot and I've grown a lot. And it's like look at where I've come and now my target that I thought was so far away. Now all of a sudden it's not that far away and it's like it's within reach.

Speaker 1: 1:21:12

And it all started with, like you said, just saying yes and taking action. There was a time so, right after the hike, I was doing some rocking. Uh, I was just like it's fun, you know it's fun and like so the hardest physical thing. Literally on the drive home I was like I want to do it again. I I couldn't wait to be out of it, but I was like right away, I was like I want to do it again. Um, so there was a day I think it was in june of last, it's like a Saturday or Sunday or something late, just like hey, I'm gonna, I'm gonna take Leonardo out for a little bit, whatever, and I think it was I don't know, she'll be out for like three hours.

Speaker 1: 1:21:48

And my mind I had this thought. It was like put your ruck pack on and go do a half marathon and like, if you don't say yes to that within two minutes of the thought, you're not doing it. And so I put my pack on. I was like, okay, walk the first one. Really walk the first game, really fast. I was like, okay, the goal is under nine and a half minute kilometers. And I did it and and like it's.

Speaker 1: 1:22:11

I don't have a huge story about that, but it was just like there's a fleeting moment where if you don't do it, you're not going to do it Right and and it's all these cliches. Like you know how do you eat an elephant one bite at a time? You know the the net. How do you climb a mountain one step at a time? It's like the 2d and 3d lessons. Like it doesn't mean as much when something you know, all these things that other people tell you, but you have the stories yourself when you do, and that's pretty cool.

Speaker 1: 1:22:42

That's a goal. Right, to live an inspired life and inspire others. Right, man? Yeah, live life to the fullest. There's another one right, live life to the fullest. Yeah, it doesn't happen by not doing stuff. That was fantastic. Well, jay is awesome, more than I could have hoped for. Like I, when you were like, hey, we might talk like half an hour, I was like there's no way we're talking for this half an hour 90 minutes later. Yeah, man, I appreciate this. It's super fun. It allowed me to relive everything again and hopefully people take some. That's what it's all about, man. Is you telling your story and you know, educate, entertain and inspire other dads to hopefully take on more challenges, live their, grow their relationships, be better fathers, do all the things. Appreciate you, man. Yeah, absolutely. Thanks for being on.