#0032 - Leroy Tucker

He’s been cutting hair since 1960, and Leroy Tucker can tell you exactly why some barber shops disappear while others become landmarks. We talk with Leroy about how a plan to become a veterinarian turned into a lifelong career in barbering, and what it really takes to stay in business for 60 plus years in Midwest City.

We get specific about craft: how listening to a client changes everything, why time in the chair matters, and what separates a good barber from a great barber. Leroy shares memories from professional training and traveling symposiums, including straight razor technique and the enduring influence of the Roffler name. If you care about precision haircuts, clipper over comb, shear over comb, and the fundamentals behind a clean outline, you’ll hear how mastery is built one appointment at a time.

We also dig into the industry side of the trade. Leroy explains his decades of service examining barbers for licensure, the role of national meetings in barber education, and why health and safety standards are part of protecting the profession. He walks us through the tough merger between barber and cosmetology boards, what it changed, and where he thinks trends are heading next, including whether the flat top ever fully returns.

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Transcript

Welcome And A 65-Year Career

SPEAKER_00 0:30

Thanks for joining me, Leroy Tucker. I really appreciate it. How's your day been so far?

SPEAKER_01 0:34

It's been uh good getting ready for Easter. And uh it's exciting to be in business for this long.

SPEAKER_00 0:45

Tell me, how long have you been in business?

SPEAKER_01 0:47

Uh been 65 years total from school uh 1960 to uh this date.

SPEAKER_00 0:56

Wow. And so if I'm not mistaken, you chose your profession right outside of high school, is that correct?

SPEAKER_01 1:03

Well, I intended to be a veterinarian and go to OSU. I didn't have the money to do that, so I uh went to barber school first to get the ability to cut hair on campus, uh, but I never did get there. I set up my own shop, bought my own business, and my parents uh bagged me for my first shop.

SPEAKER_00 1:32

Wow. So did you at what point at what as you were saving up for vet education, did you decide, hey, this is gonna be my life's work? Or did you did you know immediately when you were starting your first shop?

From Vet Plans To Barbering

SPEAKER_01 1:47

I grew up on a farm and uh I attended animals uh as I grew up, and that's what I wanted to do for a lifetime, but it just didn't work out that way for me.

SPEAKER_00 2:03

Have you stayed close to to animals ever since?

SPEAKER_01 2:06

Uh no. Okay. No, I have moved from the McAllister area to Midwest City in 1962, and I've been here since.

SPEAKER_00 2:19

And you tr and you trained not just locally, but even you had some time training in in Italy.

SPEAKER_01 2:27

Uh yes, I uh spent two weeks in Italy uh with a team, and we put on what we call symposiums where we would go to different cities. We started in Connecticut, uh Georgia, Dallas, Kansas City, Oakland, California.

SPEAKER_00 2:51

Wow.

SPEAKER_01 2:53

And these are different weekends that we would go there and train.

SPEAKER_00 2:57

What did that experience teach you?

SPEAKER_01 3:01

It taught me to be able to help others, and uh I opened a barber school uh with a partner back in uh 78, and uh I only was in that business for one year, and then I came back into this shop, and I've been here uh since 79.

SPEAKER_00 3:27

In your opinion, with all of the years of experience you have, is are there a lot of things that separate a a good barber from a great barber?

Razor Training And Traveling Symposiums

SPEAKER_01 3:36

Yes, there are, because uh you spend the time with the client. You need to understand what they want as far as a their hair care. Uh we do shampooing, but I was trained with a razor by cutting, went to Europe and trained with a razor to cut hair totally uh with a razor, no other tool other than a straight razor.

SPEAKER_00 4:12

It sounds like precision training.

SPEAKER_01 4:15

Uh Mr. Edmund Roffler was the one that had the uh franchise, and each state had a dealer, and that dealer would uh uh supply the products like uh I have some on the shelf where it says Roffler on them, on that lower shelf. I I still use them because they're quality products, and uh that is who I went to Europe with, was that team to put on a symposium. And uh what you're doing is you're bringing all the people in the district, not only your state, but the district. And uh when we was in Dallas, we had uh probably five different states that attended. I was the MC for the team of six, and then later uh after we finished our time with the symposiums, then uh two of us would go to different states and train barbers there, the same technique that we had done on stage for them.

SPEAKER_00 5:34

Wow. And what what does MC stand for? What is uh you mentioned that you were the MC, is that correct? The MC, the Master of Ceremonies. Oh, Master of Ceremonies, okay. Yeah, uh forgive me. That wow.

SPEAKER_01 5:49

Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 5:50

Last name that you mentioned was Roffler, is that correct?

SPEAKER_01 5:53

Edmund Roffler was the one that formulated the products.

SPEAKER_00 5:58

Wow. And he's and he's still around today.

SPEAKER_01 6:00

Uh he is dead, but uh another man owns the company. Okay. And uh his name is uh Sam Lepo Lep Le Poor. Sam LePore. He's out of uh Arizona now.

SPEAKER_00 6:15

It's Rothler's legacy is still alive. Yes, it is. Wow, that's impressive. And how how has the craft changed since the 60s?

SPEAKER_01 6:26

Uh it the writer has faded away because there wasn't trainers that were able to follow through with what Mr. Rauffer had set up. He had gone to Europe himself and trained with an individual there, and he got the technique and he brought it back to the United States, and that's when we trained here.

SPEAKER_00 6:58

So you've you've owned Tucker since 1964, is that right?

Client Care Defines Great Barbering

SPEAKER_01 7:04

Uh yes. Uh I bought the first shop in '64. My wife owned a shop uh 68 to 71 in Dale City.

SPEAKER_00 7:17

Okay.

SPEAKER_01 7:18

And uh she got to work, she had to quit because of her arms being held up all the time, doing perms and cuts. She went to work for the uh Tom Poteski's office, uh, a core clerk, and she worked there 20 years. She was working there when they had the bombing downtown.

SPEAKER_00 7:43

What's the what is or what are the secrets to staying in business for this long?

SPEAKER_01 7:51

Uh being able to take care of a client the way they want their haircut or their uh shape or whatever that's all I do really is haircutting shape. I don't do colors or things like that. Some do. Okay. But uh I had rather put my efforts into cutting and uh taking care of the client.

SPEAKER_00 8:22

Were there any hard seasons in inside and or outside of the industry that you really had to push through in business development, like uh from the 60s all the way up till now?

SPEAKER_01 8:35

Uh the main thing was being able to transition from one type style to another. Uh we went from long hair back in the 60s and 70s to shorter hair in the 80s and 90s, and it has evolved since then. And now uh most of my work is done sheer and comb or clipper and comb.

SPEAKER_00 9:15

Okay. Yeah, it's interesting. I mean, as a regular just person on the street, I don't, you know, when I had hair, and also as I maintained facial hair and stuff like that, it I forget that there are there are trends and there are different patterns that a regular customer or consumer might not recognize. It what advice would you give to someone starting a business today?

SPEAKER_01 9:41

Really uh have a good relationship with your clients. Uh if you understand what they want as far as hair care, and you provide that, uh, whether it's shaving the outline with a straight razor, or whether you're cutting clipper over comb, or whether you're cutting shear over comb.

SPEAKER_00 10:10

So it sounds like just really honing in to what a customer's needs and wants are, and just and nourishing that relationship. What changes did you help bring to the profession over the years?

SPEAKER_01 10:27

I served as 25 years on the barber board examining all barbers as they finished their training in school. I served under Walters, uh, first Dewey Bartlett in the 60s. David Walters started again in 90. I served under Mary Fallon, Frank Keating, Brad Henry, and uh in 210 is when I left uh the examining area. I did it for 25 total years.

SPEAKER_00 11:06

And in that time you've received quite a few awards. Uh two uh that I jotted down that it doesn't cover everything that you've received over the years, but I I saw that you have that you were rated top ten barber shops in the country, and that you were also named uh stylist of of the year. What do some of these awards mean to you?

Surviving Trends Pricing And Advice

SPEAKER_01 11:34

It means the effort that you put in, whether you it is the fact that I travel to the national meetings each year and uh provide uh encouragement to the new barbers that are coming into the industry. And uh for 20 years I have been what they consider the parliamentarian for the National Association, and that just means that I help run the national meeting through the process of the parliamentarian. Coming into question of of uh some of the things that we provide as far as education, we do that through what they call six ten meetings where they'll have six states that will break off and uh have uh conversation from each of the states with the input as to how what you're going to do to help the industry. And uh in doing that we have to focus on uh the not only the hair care but for health uh reasons. Uh we do testing for uh syphilis, we do testing for uh COVID lately. Uh it's just a bunch of barbers that get together because they want to save the profession. Uh we have combined now our boards with borrowers and cosmetologists. Cosmetologists had 10 to 1 over borrowers, so that's the reason that we combined. And the license are issued through the same board. And in doing that, uh you have to have people that can check for haircuts, for uh perms, uh for other activities in the hair industry.

SPEAKER_00 14:12

Just imagining what it would be like. How was the did it take o time to settle uh after the merge? Was it was it a gentle merger? Was it uh abrupt? Did it affect a lot of people?

Barber Board Awards And National Service

SPEAKER_01 14:26

It was a uh tough merger to start with because barbers didn't want to have to deal with cosmetology and what they were being asked to do as far as uh testing. Uh barbers didn't necessarily want to have testing on colors or perms or rollers uh or uh things like that. They wanted to know how to cut hair, precision hair, uh with any of the barber tools. Cosmetologists are not allowed to shave the face uh with a razor, but uh since they have combined, they are now merging to that degree, and I think at some point they probably will be able to do that. The barbers will be able to do color and perms and all that. Uh so it's a crossover, is what it is.

SPEAKER_00 15:34

Sounds like there wasn't much of a choice, and everyone's kind of easing into the overlapping responsibilities, and uh at some point, as you said, it's gonna be all all under one umbrella. Okay.

SPEAKER_01 15:49

Yeah, the state government.

SPEAKER_00 15:53

What makes a good leader in your experiences?

SPEAKER_01 15:57

Uh being able to bring them into the profession with the knowledge that uh they can actually take care of a client uh whether it's uh the fact that they want uh a type of haircut uh or whether they want uh to uh be able to explain to the barber what their desire for a certain look. And in most cases a regular haircut is what that is, it's just a taper haircut. Either with a comb and shear or with a comb and a clipper.

SPEAKER_00 17:05

Hmm. And and as you mentioned before, the patterns have changed, so that wasn't always the case. Yes. So as I recall, you mentioned, you know, in the 60s and 70s, yeah, there were a lot of haircuts that were desired tied to much much more hair.

SPEAKER_01 17:21

Back in the early 60s, uh, 75% of my business was flat tops.

SPEAKER_00 17:27

Oh wow.

SPEAKER_01 17:28

And um that's what I really like to do. And you'd either have a flat top or a flat top boogie. The flat top boogie is where you comb the sides back, like Fonzi and them did.

SPEAKER_00 17:44

But flat top boogie. I like that name.

SPEAKER_01 17:46

Yeah, you flat top, but all the sides come back into a DA in the back.

SPEAKER_00 17:51

Okay. And uh how do you see it changing in in the future? I guess that it's not the last change because things are constantly changing. If you had any guesses as to like where trends are going to go in the next, I don't know, five, ten, fifteen, twenty years, what what kind of changes do you do you see coming up?

SPEAKER_01 18:10

I see that uh a lot of the students in in grade school and high school are trending to longer hair.

SPEAKER_00 18:24

So it's going it's going back? Yes.

SPEAKER_01 18:27

And uh I have very few young people. Most of my clientele is uh the adults.

SPEAKER_00 18:38

Okay. Do you think we're gonna get to to the back to the flat top boogie?

SPEAKER_01 18:42

Uh eventually. I I do flat tops now.

SPEAKER_00 18:45

Oh, okay.

SPEAKER_01 18:46

But it's a true flat top, it isn't a flat top boogie.

SPEAKER_00 18:49

Okay.

SPEAKER_01 18:50

Um, but uh I could see that coming back at some point, yeah.

SPEAKER_00 18:55

That's kind of cool. And you've been recognized uh for quite some time as a pillar in Midwest City. What does that mean to you to be a pillar in a a city like Midwest City?

SPEAKER_01 19:10

Well, it's quite a large uh undertaking when you move into a city that was already established with local barbers. But most of those have either went out of business or passed away. And uh me being in business over 60 years uh here in this city, uh I'm one of the longest running barbers here now. But uh I do have a young man coming in uh that uh has just graduated several months ago from barber school. And uh I do have a lady that's been with me 38 years. Wow. Uh her clientele is excellent. She uh, as a matter of fact, is in Vegas right now. But uh she's been with me and she's very loyal. And uh when I first brought her into the shop and she watched me cut a head of hair with a pair of clippers, she jumped back and said, What's that noise? She had never seen anyone cut a head of hair with clippers. She was a sheer and calm person. Okay. Wow. And she still does a lot of that, but she does the clippers now. Yeah? And it speeds up her work a lot. Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 20:55

That's really cool. Uh what's what kind of legacy uh do you hope to leave behind?

SPEAKER_01 21:05

Well, I hope that uh the industry will survive. Uh as a matter of fact, uh uh not this year, but next year, we'll be in Columbus, Ohio. That will be celebrating our hundredth year of barbering uh in the industry. Wow, a hundred years. Uh uh it'll be in uh in uh South Carolina this year. Okay. And uh the next year is when we moved to uh Columbus. And that's where it all started, is in in Ohio.

SPEAKER_00 21:47

In Ohio, in Columbus, Ohio. Um Mr.

SPEAKER_01 21:51

Ed Jeffers is the one that uh started all those that are on that calendar up there as brain. Bringing them into the industry, the Hall of Fame. At Jeffers, he was the first. He is on the board, but it was later that he came in. I forget what year right now, but he has passed away. Most of them on the board are not living today. One of them would be Mr. Andes that built the Andes Clipper, the one that built the Orster, John Oyster, the Oyster Clipper. Mr. Offler again is up there on that board. The Coke and Barber chair is formulated by one of the men. So someone had something to do with the industry as far as tools or chairs or uh things that come back to the profession.

SPEAKER_00 23:05

You all built it over the last hundred years. You built it together.

SPEAKER_01 23:08

Yeah. Wow. Yeah. Uh Mr. Moller was the first guy, and he was the one that had the first Moller textbook for barbering that would uh explain barbering uh and give you technique and and how to cut hair.

SPEAKER_00 23:31

Wow. What's uh what's one lesson that you wished that you wish you were learned a little bit earlier in life based on all of the experiences that you've had in the industry?

Flat Tops Legacy And Final Lessons

SPEAKER_01 23:45

Well, I wish that uh I could have gone on to the profession of of uh the animal husbandry and that was my desire. But once I got into the industry, I was brought along by a couple people that gave me the encouragement, and one of them was my uncle, and uh once I got established and my parents helped me buy my first shop, I was set for life and I I didn't waver going anywhere else or doing anything. My first shop was on Key Boulevard down here by Sherman Williams Paint in that same building. It was a post office at that time, and that's what I call my first shop, Tucker's Post Office Barbershop. And then they moved out on Reno, where they are now. But uh we've uh me and my wife have uh raised two children here, and we've got four grandchildren now. But uh it has been a good life as far as the industry, as far as I'm concerned.

SPEAKER_00 25:25

It sounds like you gave your whole heart to to the profession. I mean you you sacrificed everything, including uh you know, your or original plans to help everyone build the industry, you know, uh over 60 years. That's that's incredible. It's inspiring. Yeah. If anyone, if someone's listening right now and feels feels stuck in any way, what what would you tell them?

SPEAKER_01 25:56

I would find someone that has been in the industry for several years that could provide the knowledge of the industry to them. Uh it's not easy in taking care of the the client base. You have to be able to uh make them feel welcome in the chair. You have to do a good job in the cut and uh only charge a fair price.

SPEAKER_00 26:42

That's a big part of it.

SPEAKER_01 26:44

When I started back in the 60s, it was a dollar fifty for a haircut. And now today we charge 20 for a a regular haircut.

SPEAKER_00 26:54

A dollar? When was it a dollar fifty?

SPEAKER_01 26:56

That was back in 1661.

SPEAKER_00 26:59

61. I don't think we're going back to those prices anytime soon.

SPEAKER_01 27:02

Yeah. Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 27:05

It's uh time it's time to bring back the flat top boogie and the dollar the dollar fifty haircut.

SPEAKER_01 27:11

Yeah, yeah. I'd I'd love to see the flat top boogie again if I had flash that would wear it.

SPEAKER_00 27:18

Sure.

SPEAKER_01 27:18

Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 27:19

Well, hopefully this conversation can inspire some people to to maybe try it out.

SPEAKER_01 27:24

I would like to see that, yeah. And uh doing flat tops is an art. Most people won't even attempt that. My lady that's been with me 38 years will not even attempt to do a flat top because that wasn't what she was trained to do.

SPEAKER_00 27:45

Yeah.

SPEAKER_01 27:46

But she can do quality work in other areas.

SPEAKER_00 27:55

So it do you think it's within her wheelhouse to eventually specialize in flat tops, or do you think that at least the person that we're speaking about right now, do you think that flat tops aren't gonna aren't gonna be her strength?

SPEAKER_01 28:10

It's not in demand like it was back in the early days.

SPEAKER_00 28:13

Okay. Well that answers the question too. Hmm. Gives me and I think a lot of other people some things to think about. Are there any common misconceptions tied to tied to barbers or the industry like that? People, us regular folk, uh would would maybe assume something about you or your industry as a whole that's completely wrong?

SPEAKER_01 28:38

Uh yes, they could. And some will leave not only my shop and my chair and go somewhere else for some reason. And uh you never know why. It may be a personality conflict, it could be uh uh the fact that they just don't want to wear their hair the way that you think they would would like to.

SPEAKER_00 29:12

Sure.

SPEAKER_01 29:13

And that is one of the best things is to get a relationship with a customer knowing what they want. I've got many customers that come in and sit down and I know exactly what they want. And they get up and pay and go on.

SPEAKER_00 29:30

That's priceless. Yeah. That's priceless. Yeah. Well, Leroy, I I I hope this isn't the last time that we speak. I really appreciate you having this conversation with me. So thank thank you so much.

SPEAKER_01 29:43

Well, thank you. I appreciate it.

SPEAKER_00 29:45

Have a good one.