The Energetics of Money: Shifting Scarcity into Abundance w/ Holistic Wealth Coach Morgan Blackman

In this powerful and vulnerable episode of Inside Out, Jojo is joined by holistic wealth coach Morgan Blackman to unpack the mental, emotional, and spiritual layers of money. From childhood money stories and lifestyle creep to scarcity mindset and financial empowerment, this conversation dives deep into how we relate to money and how to change our narrative around it. Learn about energetics, investing as a beginner, building financial confidence, practicing gratitude, and how collective wealth can be a force for good. If you're ready to stop surviving and start thriving, this is the episode to help you align your mindset and money.

Connect with Morgan on her website, Youtube or sign up for her webinar. 

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Transcript

Jojo (00:07.342)
Welcome the Inside Out Podcast. I'm your host JoJo and this is where we will navigate the mess together that is mental, emotional, and spiritual. Let's get messy.

Jojo (00:25.743)
Hey everyone, welcome back to Inside Out. We have a very interesting conversation today and it's a very taboo topic, I will say as well. No one likes to talk about money. I don't understand it. I think abundance and the energetics of money and what that really stands for is something worth diving into getting vulnerable with because

The more we share, the more we realize like we're all in the same place and we all have the same hangups and limiting beliefs and shame and guilt and the list goes on. So who better to have than my beautiful guest, Morgan Blackman, who is a wealth coach and we're gonna dive into everything to do with the energetics of money, what abundance really means, how to build out that wealth and what that really looks like. So Morgan.

Thank you so much for joining me and welcome to Inside Out. Yes, thanks for having me. I'm so excited to get messy. She said it, not me. So I'm actually curious what your first memory of money is or was. Yeah, okay. So it's so interesting because I feel like I dealt with a lot of trauma. So it's very hard to know, like, what was the earliest memory? I feel like I don't remember anything until like the age of 10 and like above.

I would say like some of the collective memories within that time frame of like zero to 10 would have been that money is something that brings a lot of conflict because my parents fought a lot about money. I know there's other people that have like a similar upbringing and story as well. So yeah, a part of me, there's actually some nuance to it. Like a part of me saw that it created a lot of...

conflict, but then also when it came personally to me, anything that I asked for, I would kind of get. And I kind of call this like the, I just wrote a sub-stat article or post about this, like the different money mindset errors that shaped me. And I would say part of my first money story is also the like daddy's got it, you know? My dad, like, you know, anything that I want, like my parents would.

Jojo (02:32.443)
technically a gift to me, you know, whether it was like a toy or going shopping to buy like a new top for school. So it wasn't like, you know, I was like starving every day. I didn't know where my food was gonna come from. I didn't have a roof over my head. It wasn't that type of poverty, you know, like my parents had it pretty good middle income class family. But mainly what I saw was just like, it created a lot of conflict for my parents and relationships. So that's, that kind of gets interesting. There's like the relationship part of it. And then there's also like...

my personal experience with being gifted and like at some point, you know, being able to ask for something and getting it and being cared for in that way. then I would say like it slowly began to shift as I like moved into, you know, being a teenager and then it becoming more apparent to me that my parents actually didn't have it as much as I thought they did. And then, you know, getting my first job at 16, that kind of started to make me realize that like now I have more autonomy. I'm like...

being able to use money in a way that feels good to me and now having that access to spending money in a way that feels good to me and I'll it to rely on my parents. So then I would say my mindset started to shift a bit more. Yeah, that's kind of like the dual experience I had. Like money causes conflict, but also like if I ask for something, I can get it. Just like kind of conflicting, but in itself. What about you? don't know. Like such polarity in that. And what about me? gosh. Flip the script. Why?

Don't you? What is my earliest memory of money? I guess when I was a kid, actually, like, I don't know, I might've been like eight or nine years old when I started like dog walking, like the neighbor's dogs and like plant watering and like cat sitting and like babysitting. And I did this thing called like mother's helper. So I started working at such a young age that I think I've always just, I'm not sure if I can really.

really say what my like earliest memory with money is, but I know that I always worked. And that's kind of like, like, I think I think my relationship with money is like, if I work for it, then it comes easy. But if I like sit idly, then it doesn't, which I'm trying to reframe because like, I think that's such a, like, it shouldn't be like, a struggle, at least in my opinion, I don't think that people should

Jojo (04:54.532)
have to like break their necks or their backs to like have wealth. Exactly. I don't, and I think maybe that's, not that I really saw that either because my parents were, well, my mom raised us and then she stepped into her own business later. But I mean, my dad raised us too. He was also home. He was. But he, he like worked from home. So I don't, it's so interesting. I, and we grew up like it was.

It was, yeah, it's so weird. Like I don't actually think that I under, man. Wow, you really stumped me with that one. I actually have no idea. I will tell you now, I think now my relationship with money is like, it needs to be better because I don't feel the abundance. I feel the more scarcity mindset and I don't want to keep living in that like.

that fear of money and not having it be enough and I won't be able to have the life that I want to provide for my family or but again, I think that goes back to like the energetics and really like what it stands for rather than like what it really is because at the end of the day, like, we see numbers in a bank account. Like, what does that mean? Like, is that defined our worth? You know, it's like it's this I don't know. And I think it always kind of did but I think we're told that yeah.

It's like you are valued based on what's in your bank account. Exactly like what you said. And we're definitely judged by it and feel like if we don't have a certain digit by a certain age, then like, am I even good with money? When yeah, there's just so many layers to it. And I think the issue with that is that we, like exactly what you said, like we look at money as like just strictly this currency. When to me, money is just...

and energy, it is a transaction that you're having with two people and you're transacting things of value. So it could be time, it could be effort, it could be an experience. It doesn't have to be strictly an object and this object is cash or whatever, you know? But yeah, it's so interesting that even for me, it's very hard to pinpoint like, okay, what exactly is like my money story because there's so many layers to it.

Jojo (07:15.046)
But yeah, thanks for sharing, like, you know, and being vulnerable with that. It sounds like, so do you feel like you still struggle with, like, this idea of having to work hard in order to earn it? And even when you're working hard, it's like you still feel like you're not catching up. You're still not where you want to be. think yes. It's so funny. I was in this seminar yesterday, like an online seminar.

someone was spotlighted and came up and was talking about financials and the person had us write in the chat and be like, what is your relationship with money? And I can't remember exactly what I wrote, but I wrote money equals like, it's like the same almost. If I make more, I'm gonna spend more. So it's like, it's like I never, yeah, it's like you're always in the same place and you're never really like involved. So I don't know because also, what's the word for that?

It's called lifestyle creep. So it's like as you earn more, people tend to, their expenses also increase along with it instead of actually continuing to try to minimize their expenses. So it's like, I'm making more money, like let me buy the more expensive car or like upgrade to like a better apartment in the city. And that's why you kind of always feel stuck. It's just like, you can make a million dollars. There are a lot of people that are rich, but quote unquote still broke. Or so how that scarcity mindset because their spending continues to match.

what's coming in. And so it's never like this, like you really don't have an opportunity to maximize your net worth. Yeah. So lifestyle creep is the other term for it. No, I definitely can relate to that. I didn't realize you were interviewing me today. This is bizarre. I love it. I also think that because all of my work has been in person, you asked, do I feel like I still have to like hustle hard and like work really hard for my money?

Because all my work has been in person, I have to physically be there. Yes, I still feel like, if I'm not showing up to work, then I can't just be on a computer and make money. I want to change that because I don't think that that is the way this world is moving. I think, I mean, people make money in their sleep all the time, whether that's investments, whether that's, I mean, we're not even gonna go there. There's a million ways people can make money in their sleep. But for me, it's like,

Jojo (09:35.806)
I'm not there yet and I would obviously love to be there because that sounds incredible. But now it's like, well, well, I'm not. So now I have to work extra hard or I have to do more. So, so it's like the lifestyle creep. It's the, it's the like scarcity mindset. It's what does abundance even really mean? And I mean, I, I feel like even just, I live in New York for now and

I just feel like there's so much money and like it's such a fast paced life and people are just out and they're spending and they're doing and they're da da da da da. But there's so much debt. Like people are living on credit card debt. Like, okay, so usually when I work with my clients, that's actually something that we get really clear on. Like to understand why you're spending the way that you are and then also to compare that to what's coming in. Like what's important to you? Like what are you really working towards?

Like, why do you feel like you need more money? And I think for me, like, I've, at one point I came up with like a comfortable number and that was like six figures. And I really had to like sort of mine that and understand like why, why is six figures so important to me? And at one point I think it was just because that's like, that's just a number that everyone sort of celebrates, you know? Yeah, usually I love to get clear on.

Why are we chasing the certain experience? Why are we spending in the ways that we're spending? Because I think a lot of it is spending based on the influences that we have around us, whether that's friends, family, society, status, um, for the approval of others. So, a lot of the times we feel like we're working hard or we're not seeing our money be realized. A part of that could be maybe you're just not.

um, working a job that's bringing in enough income. But what I found is that a lot of it is that we're spending in areas that we actually don't really need to be spending in. Yeah. And it's just very interesting in doing that exercise, how clear it becomes for people. Like, yeah, what's my why behind this? What's my motive behind this specific spending? And sometimes it just comes down to like environment. Like you said, like living in New York city is a very expensive city, right? And not everyone has the.

Jojo (11:54.495)
what would I say? Not everyone has the privilege to just like pack up and move. I mean, there might be lot of reasons why you want to be in a certain location because you might have the support or the quality of connections and relationships that can, you know, improve your life as well too, because relationships are just as important. but yeah, I, for me personally, I think once I got to a place in my life where I started to really question like, okay, what's

What's the specific type of income that I'm aiming for? Why am I aiming for that kind of income? But then also looking at it from another side of it, where it's like, okay, how am I spending? Is it in alignment with that? And do I really need to be spending in that way to really feel whole or fulfilled or happy? And I truly feel like that's really all that it is at the end of the day. Like we really just want to feel fulfilled. And a lot of the times we feel like that fulfillment comes from outside of ourselves. And a lot of the things that we want to experience can be done for free.

You know, so I think just like, yeah, doing some like inner excavation around that too. Like what would you say is the ideal amount that you would want to make? And then also like, why do you spend in the way that you're spending? Is it in alignment with that? And does it have to be? Like what's your why? Yeah. Everyone, you should be thinking about this because I, well, honestly, I mean, like maybe pull out a piece of paper. What's that number?

Like, why is that the number you want? Budgeting is such a scary word because it's like, ah, like what am I? Because people don't like to look at it. Because the minute you shed a light on your crap, then you have to change it and no one likes to get uncomfortable. Yeah. What made you become a wealth coach? Oh my gosh. This is a loaded one. Okay.

I would say it's because of a certain experience that I had in university. So I had this friend who was dating this guy and he was talking to her about investments. And so she started going to the bank. Like she would just come home and be like, yeah, like I went to go speak to my financial advisor today. And I was like, with what money? Like I didn't know you had money like that. And she was like, yeah, no, like it doesn't have to be a lot. Like just a few hundred dollars that I've saved, like maybe over the summer with my job.

Jojo (14:18.266)
yeah, I'm just putting a little bit of that away in this like specific investment product and like it has a certain amount of interest on it. So then it's just like working for you. And I was just like, mind blown because this friend also like, which I think is really important. Like she looked like me, right? Like she's this black woman. We went to school together from like middle school. We kind of went separate ways in high school, but then reunited again in university. So it's like, I know we kind of have a similar upbringing, like.

You're not making lots of money. So like, I feel like if you're able to do this, I should be able to do it too. Lacey Phillips, she's the founder of To Be Magnetic. She's like a manifestation kind of queen. So yeah, she talks about this. She has this word called expanders and expanders are just like people that are relatable, that are like also able to be of inspiration to you. Cause a lot of the times like we look at someone and we're like, well obviously they have a lot of wealth because they're like this white man that's like privileged and born into it.

But then like what happens when you look at someone like Oprah, where it's like, oh wait, like this is also another black woman who's able to accumulate a lot of wealth. So like she could act as an expander for me of what's possible. That's like what my friend was for me at the time. It's like reverse comparison in the negative way. It's like comparison could be like the negative side of it, but like expander could be like that positive sort of Yeah, I never thought of it that way. Yeah, it's like reverse comparison.

So from there, I was like, okay, like, you know, I would kind of start to get more curious and like ask her certain questions, but then the ownership was also on me to like do my own work. So I started like going on Google, just like reading a bunch of articles. I started buying like some of my first finance books just to better understand money. And actually one of my first books that really shifted my mindset was Rich Dad Poor Dad by Robert Kiyosaki. And it was really just a book that explored his biological father that was like quote unquote

or like, you know, that same trope of like working hard his whole life, going to school, getting a job and then working till he's 60, but like never really had a lot of money or never felt like he was abundant. And then he has like this rich dad who's like an entrepreneur and like, you know, making loads of money and the quality of his life is just like, looks much better than his poor dad. started reading stuff like that and investment books.

Jojo (16:38.712)
And then got to a point where I saved like $5,000 by the end of that year. Mind you, this is someone who like never saved like a day in her life. Like even at 16 when I got my first job, I was pulling in like $20,000 for the year. Like my dad, he was like, he's an accountant. So he would always like look at the numbers and they'd always kind of shame me. Like you made so much money. Like what did you do with it? So to go from that to not saving like a penny to like.

being like, no, I'm gonna change my money story and I wanna be someone that like steps into the role of being wealthy and I'm gonna learn how to save. And I think I had a motivation. It was because not just saving for the sake of it, but I wanted to save because I wanted to invest and have my money work for me. So it was like, yeah, I'm gonna prioritize this over spending on different things. Save 5,000, a lot of the research that I did, I eventually got confident to like put my money into different investment products in the stock market. And like within that year,

of putting my money into the stock market, I doubled it. Which like, I don't think is a very common thing for most people. Like the average investor would see like maybe five to 8 % annual returns. So to see like 100 % annual returns in like my first year of investing, I was like, I think I'm pretty good at this. And actually it's actually not that hard. And that really helped to shift my money story too. Where it was like, maybe it doesn't have to be that hard.

Maybe this is how people actually acquire wealth and are able to maintain it. But we're obviously just not taught this, right? Like I wasn't taught this in school. I had to go out there and like learn for myself. Of course too, like if you're not born into a family that knows these things, like I didn't have parents that were like, okay, this is how you invest into the stock market and how you have your, I mean, my dad is like a realtor as well. So I learned about investments via the pathway of like investing in real estate, which is still another form of investing. But I think.

investing in real estate has a higher barrier to entry, because you have to come up with like a sizable down payment, which is very hard for people to come up with in the first place. So that's why I really loved stocks because it was like, I mean, I put $5,000 in, but I don't want to confuse people and make people feel like you have to start with that. Like it could be $100, it could be $500. I was just like a little greedy and I was like, well, the more I put in, if this is successful, the more I'll get back. So, you know, to have $5,000 and then end off with like $10,000.

Jojo (18:58.36)
within a year, like, that felt good to me. and that's what I wanted. I mean, not even thinking I was going to double it, but yeah. And then, so get to a point where like I'm starting to invest regularly. I graduate uni, you know, I get my first job. and then I actually start to work on some of my other financial goals because I, typically you're supposed to like,

Like investing is sort of the last stage of your journey. So I started with investing first and then I worked backwards and it was like, okay, well now I need to pay off all this debt. like- Why is it the last? I would say it's the last because I mean, investing takes off. There's a bit of risk involved. And so you normally would want to have a bit of like an emergency fund or like, you know, just something set aside for like-

Say if the stock market crashed or like there's just like more short-term emergencies you wouldn't want to pull from your investments. So like most financial advisors or experts would say, okay, you know, like learn how to save first, pay off your debts because say if you have like high interest debt, like credit card debt, that's like 20 % interest like working against you versus like if you know you're only going to get like seven to 8 % returns on your investments.

the debt is gonna cancel out what you're gaining in the stock market anyways. So, if you're really looking at the numbers and you wanna be strategic, like it is better to follow that pathway of like, okay, paying off all your high interest debt, like learning how to save, have a little emergency fund. Like Warren Buffett, who's like, I don't know he's still the richest investor in the world, but he has like millions of dollars just like in cash. You know, like a lot of people think, like wealthy people have everything invested in something and...

No, you always want to have a little, you know, like cash under your mattress or something just in case. So anyways, learn how to do all that. I think I paid off like over $30,000 in debt within like three years. I like grew my investment fund to $40,000 as well in that period of time. And I just felt so empowered, like as a woman to know like, wow, this is possible. Like I was able to do this, especially being like a black woman and coming from a marginalized community. Like I was like, there's no excuses.

Jojo (21:09.338)
But I understood the limiting beliefs and the mindset shifts that it also took in order to get to where I was. And I was like, yeah, I just really want to empower other women around their finances as well too, to know this is possible. And I think women also have this idea that we're not supposed to be good with money. We're supposed to just be this helpless little, I don't know, housemaid where the man goes to work and brings in the income and we don't have to worry about it.

And it's like, no, we can take ownership and have agency over how we earn our money, how we spend it, and like really building out a life that we love. And so, yeah, that's how I eventually just like, I just started an Instagram account and just started to share my own finance journey and what I was learning and just educating. And then eventually I realized like I could be a coach and actually like do this for a living and set this up as kind of like a business. And that's how I ended up, yeah, getting to where I am today.

That's part of it. That's the finance piece. But yeah, definitely. Yeah. So because you are the holistic wealth coach and it's not just numbers. I mean, yes, it is numbers in a bank account and that obviously does pay for your life. We understand that. But how do you work with your clients to get on the other side of those limiting beliefs? Because at the end of the day, it is energy. It is energetics because if you are blocked with

that sad limiting belief, then what? Because for me, for instance, money equals hard work. Money equals it's always the same because of the lifestyle creep. How do you get on the other side of that? Because also I wanna add a lot of people, let's bring in relationships for instance, a lot of men won't wanna get like into a relationship because they don't feel like.

they're financially secure because all of the, like, finances get in the way of everything. Yeah, definitely. Yeah, it's the driving force for, like, every decision you have to make in your life, for sure. So how do you stop that? Yeah. So, yeah, like, you know, the story piece that we're talking about, some of the work that I do is helping women to shift from, that limiting belief or story that you have and finding a version of that story that's more empowering.

Jojo (23:27.131)
And it has to be believable, right? Like you can't just sit and say, you know what, I'm just gonna believe that like I have the best relationship with money and money working hard for me. And, especially if you haven't actually experienced that. So I think part of it is also in congruency to looking at the limiting beliefs is also practicing gratitude and actually starting with like where you're at and recognizing that you are already abundant and wealthy. That can sound so annoying to people because it's like,

How? No, but our mind is like constantly looking for threats. It's constantly looking at the negative in our life. And a part of that is just to protect us. A part of that is familiarity. Like if you've just struggled your whole life, then like your mind is going to look for things that confirm that there's further struggle to come. And I think, especially when it comes to money and abundance, like so much of us just don't realize how abundant we already are. And I think it's much easier to start to have

a more expansive relationship with money once you're able to realize like, yes, okay, I might not be having the experience, the exact experience that I want now, but like, where can I show gratitude for like how it, how money actually is showing up for me today? And so looking at, you know, yes, I had a warm meal today, three warm meals today, actually, you know, like I have a nice comfy bed to, to lie in at night. And it's, it really is, just perspective, right? Cause there's so many ways we can look at it. And it's like,

I don't have what this other person has. I never have enough. But then there's someone else looking at you and being like, my God, JoJo has so much. Like, she's living this life, she's in NYC, she's doing this with her friends, she's traveling, she's like, you know? So a part of it is just, I don't wanna say being ungrateful, but I think shifting more into a gratitude type of energy and embodiment and starting there. And then once you realize like, actually, like I do have it pretty good.

Yes, I can always have more, but I have it pretty good. And like, okay, slowly now, how can I, from that mindset, start to look for the opportunities around me? Even with like money, for example, like if I didn't, I think at some point I probably would have started investing. But if I never had that friend to be that expander at that particular point in my life, it probably would have taken me a bit longer to get to a point where I would have valued investing and it would have seemed more accessible to me.

Jojo (25:55.797)
you know, and that was just an opportunity that I got curious about and like tapped into. I easily could have just been like, you know what, like investing sounds like, actually that was my mindset at first. In the beginning, I was like, my gosh, like there's so much to learn. When I started like Googling and I'm like, my God, this is like, I'm just probably just going to give up on this. Like, I don't know where to start. So there was a little bit of overwhelm, but I think just like breaking it down, starting with the book and then like slowly just

things that started to like interest me, you know, like taking a bit more interest in that specific topic and going down that rabbit hole, which led me to something else. So like, it doesn't have to be an overnight thing and it wasn't an overnight thing for me. But part of it is timing, being open to the opportunities around you, realizing that there's opportunities around you, educating yourself. Financial literacy is a huge, huge, huge piece. That helped me to gain confidence, right? Like I didn't just like.

throw $5,000 into the stock market and was like, okay, let's see what happens. I had to be intentional. I'm gonna put a thousand into this, a thousand into that because of what I read and diversify my investments to hedge for risk. It was a lot. It took maybe like six months before I actually invested that $5,000. You know? And I had the confidence to do it. So those are some of the ways I feel like you can kind of slowly start to work your way out of some of the limiting beliefs that you have, start to challenge yourself.

I think one big one is rich people are evil. At one point, especially in this capitalistic world, it seems like there's so much division even happening right now. Like it's so easy to like pit people against each other and to be like, I'm suffering whether I'm suffering because of you or you know, and this person or that person or because of this system. I took this world politics class in grade 12 and it was, I actually was probably gonna be on the path of becoming a naturopath or something. Cause like I'm really into like health.

I'm like wellness, of course. but I took this world politics class in grade 12 and I was angry. That was probably the first time I ever embodied the mindset of like rich people are evil and just seeing the gross inequality in the world. Like, why are there people in countries that like have nothing to eat for the day? And then there are people eating like these five star Michelin meals, you know, like.

Jojo (28:14.452)
This makes no sense. And I was so angered. that's part of the reason why I do the work that I do today was because I wanted to make a difference. I wanted to work on helping to improve this inequality that we see in this world. And then, you know, eventually starting to invest, there was some conflict there because I was like, well, rich people are supposed to be evil. What happens if I become rich? Am I evil? And I realized, no.

actually having more money will allow me to actually do more good in the world, to spend my money with more alignment. A lot of the people that are rich and wealthy, they've contributed to society in very positive ways. Like even just being an entrepreneur, like you didn't start this podcast because, like I'm to make so much money off of doing this. Like I'm pretty sure you started it because you're like, this is going to be impactful. This is going to help people. It's going to be valuable. And I truly believe like most entrepreneurs start off that way. You know, creating.

Spotify or the iPhone or like the internet. Like these were ideas that people had because they actually thought it was gonna bring people together more and improve the quality of our lives. And then of course we come to realize like there's duality to that and like with every thing that seems good, there's also like the shadow aspects of like progressing towards something. But yeah, and so I started to have those realizations and it's like, yeah, sure there are shitty people with money, but they were probably already shitty to

to begin with. Like, even if they had no money, these are people that just had no moral code or, you know, any source of integrity. And so I think money just amplifies the person that you are. And sadly, there are some people, yes, that aren't good people, not going to say any names, but then there are people who also doing really great things with their money and look for those examples. And that's how you can easily shift your limiting belief. And that's how I did shift my limiting belief around rich people are evil.

Because if I'm someone who wants to acquire wealth and to have more than just enough, then I have to shift how I see myself. Totally. And if you keep yourself small because you're scared of what the other side of that looks like, that competing desire gridlock, the more you climb, the further you fall. You can't, you literally can't level up. You can't get out of your own way. And I really, want to bring back what you were saying about gratitude. Appreciation is so key.

Jojo (30:34.1)
We always forget it because it's always so easy for the mind to become pessimistic, to look at the lack, to look at the places where it's like, yeah, but I don't have X, Y, and Z, and comparison culture. Like that, like the social media whole, while social media, it's both, it's twofold, where it can be so empowering and people can look at that as an expander mindset. I really love that. I'm gonna start using that so much. Thank you for.

bringing that to my awareness. But also people I think tend to naturally just because of where our brain goes and that pessimistic mind, like that's gotta be shifted. That's a whole other thing. But we have to get out of our own way. We know this. It's so simple to say. And I think that's the issue. What is a way that you work with from

Maybe not from start to finish, but how do when you're working with your clients, what are the steps that you would run through to sort of start that process, completely shift the abundance mindset, the energetics of money, and to really build wealth? Because I also like what you said about collective wealth and how collective wealth really is, you're giving back. How do people give back? How do you build enough wealth for yourself, your individual wealth, your collective wealth, and really like give back to society? it all together. Yeah.

Well, to start, I would say if someone's like, I don't have the money for this, I would end it off with saying, I don't have the money for this yet. Just because you don't have it, I said, physically, and you're experiencing it right now, that doesn't mean that it's not available to you in the near future. And I mean, to be fair, like, if you had everything that you wanted in the world now, I guess it would make you happy in the short term, but then you'd have nothing else to aim for. Like, it kind what's the point? Yeah. You know what I mean? Like, what's the point? Exactly.

So like I said kind of earlier, what I would do with my clients is definitely a gratitude practice. Let's start with like what you can appreciate in your life now. step one. Step one. Gratitude. You literally meet with the people, you sit down and you're like, okay, what do you have now that you're grateful for? Yes. Love that. Three things. So we practice gratitude. It depends on the client and where they're at. Like if I know like it would be hard to start with gratitude and they're really in a place where it's like, no, there's nothing I could be grateful for.

Jojo (32:56.376)
Okay, then we'll look at just limiting beliefs, not shifting them from a limiting belief to an empowering belief, but just being aware. yeah, this is what I truly believe about money. Money is hard to get, rich people are evil. I never have enough. And then the third thing would be goals. What do you want to work towards? And that's actually my favorite one because it's so interesting to start to peel back the layers and ask people why. So I have this exercise where we would list out all the different goals.

Okay, I wanna buy a house, I want to start this business. And beside it, we would write why. And I feel like so much awareness would come up for people. And it's so interesting to see what people's motivations are. So for some people, it could be, well, I wanna start this business because I wanna make lots of money. And that's their why, that's their motivation. And for some people, it might be like, I just wanna create an impact.

For some people, it's, want to just have the freedom and flexibility of working whenever I want. And from there, you kind of can further excavate and continue to ask why, why, why. love that. Mel Robbins talks about that too, where she's like the five whys. It's like ask the why five times. because you want to provide for your family. Why? Because you weren't provided for as a child. Why? Because my parents had a...

It's not just asking it once, it's just... I'm understanding, right? Like you're asking the same question to get deeper into the onion so that you really understand the core root of it. Yeah. That's amazing. Most times, it's for reasons outside of ourselves. It's not because we truly think that this is what we want. Once again, we come back to, well, this is the conditioning that I have. I actually want to make my parents proud. This isn't for me, it's for someone else's approval, you know, or I...

Yeah, I want to have a mansion because status, you know, I want people to like me. And if I have this big home, I'm going to feel like I'm important. Why don't you feel like you're important? You know, it can really be a therapy session. Like you said, just asking why multiple times. It's, it's crazy. And so, yeah, so we do the exercise and that's really fun. And honestly, it's not shaming people for wanting those things. You can have the mansion if it genuinely.

Jojo (35:10.095)
that's what feels good to you as you continue to ask yourself why. And you're like, yeah, like that feels good. Yes, I do want to be liked and like that's okay. And that's okay. But if you start to realize like, actually that's not okay for me. And I don't want to be chasing these things because of that, of things outside of myself, you know? Or sometimes I'll still challenge people because sometimes people do think they're cool with it when really that's just their conditioning, right? And they just deeply want approval. So that's a really good exercise to do.

and pairing that with the gratitude, with the limiting beliefs. And then we would shift into the financial literacy piece. Financial literacy would be like budgeting and stuff as well too. I kind of lumped it into that. But getting very clear on why money is important to you, what are your goals? And then we start to look at the actual numbers piece and making sure that that's in alignment with how you want to feel. Think about it too. Personally, for me, I think.

To be a whole human being or to feel whole and embodied and to like feel happy, right? I mean, first of all, happiness isn't like a destination. We, you know, kind of all know this. It's a process and it comes and goes, but to have those experiences, I think really just requires three basic things. And you can argue against this, but I believe that food, having something to eat physical,

things to nourish you, food, water, shelter, because nobody wants to be sleeping under a tree and it's raining and there's thunder and bugs crawling on you. You know, you want to feel comfortable in the comfort of your home or the space. And then I would say connection. We're not meant to be alone. We're not meant to be islands. Connection, actually there's this Harvard study that was done. It's like the longest running longitudinal study on relationships.

and health, and scientists discovered that your relationships is the number one indicator of the quality of life that you're gonna live. People think money, eating better, no. Relationships, connection. And when we say relationships, people think romantic all the time, but no, family, friends. Mm-hmm. Totally. Right? Community. So, I would say those are like your three main things. That can show up in different ways. So, I think humans, we overcomplicate it, and we're like, okay, so...

Jojo (37:30.565)
To be happy that I need this huge square footage house to provide shelter. I need to be eating at these like fancy restaurants every weekend. I just need to have as many people in my circle, even though they're like connections that don't have depth. There's people still around me that like me and that's enough. Or maybe I don't need anyone. I don't need any friends. Like I'm good as long as I just got a lot of money. F everybody. You know, like we know people that are like that. They're like just all about their money, it's whatever. And I think those are the people that suffer and struggle the most.

Because there's no difference between living in a tiny house or living in a commune with 12 other people and living in a mansion. Because all your basic needs when it comes to shelter is being met. It's just the illusion that it's not being met. We really do get in our own ways when it comes to framework of what we want our lives to look like, the why, and then how it actually unfolds. Because all of these things that you mentioned, most of them are

just our subconscious and conscious getting in the way of that when you rewire these beliefs. Like if you believe you can do something, like if I believe that I can go cliff jumping for instance, I'm someone who's scared of heights. If I am like, I wanna conquer this fear, I have to talk myself into that. Because your whole body is gonna be physically shaking, but once you do that and you come over that hurdle, then you start to realize more is possible.

You need to challenge yourself in like small ways. So, you know, even with investing, for example, maybe like investing isn't the first thing you go to. Maybe it's looking at your money, getting comfortable looking at your money. Yeah, there's definitely steps to it. So small, tiny actions that just compound over time, which is actually funny because that's also how investing works, right? You're putting $50 away every week or month or whatever, and it's like 30 years down the road. Then you see the-

the benefits of, you know, what you've initially sowed. So your example of like wanting to like jump, jump off a cliff. I think the opportunity costs because like, why do you want to jump off the cliff? Like, what are you going to gain from it? And so you need, you need a motivating factor in order for you to stretch yourself past your comfort zone. So if jumping off the cliff, it could be for good or bad reasons, but if jumping off the cliff is going to gain you approval from your friends, maybe that's enough for you to actually like.

Jojo (39:58.962)
try doing it for your first time. And then obviously I wouldn't choose a cliff that's how many feet, I don't know, like a hundred feet high. I don't really think you can jump from a hundred feet. Like you'd probably kill yourself. Or go to a local swimming pool and jump off the diving board. But you know, start small. And then it's like, okay, it's actually not that bad. And slowly you increase it by another feet. But there has to be a motivating factor. Saving, for example, a lot of people kind of may know they're supposed to save, but they don't actually save. Why don't they save?

they don't have a motivating factor. They think, okay, yeah, like this is the right thing to do. But if you start to realize saving can help cushion you if you lose your job in a recession. Like if you're out for six months, you can't find a job for six months, like how are you gonna meet your basic expenses? okay, so that is actually a motivating factor for me to have a little emergency fund. Or- Everyone always thinks just to get, you know, granular with this, everyone always thinks, well, I'm the exception, that won't happen to me. What would you say to that?

That's well, I mean, if you want to think like that, hopefully nothing happens to you, but then you will get your wake up call when it happens. But everyone, you know what I mean? Like everyone's like, well, I'm not going to wear my seatbelt. Like I'm not going to get in. It's like, that's the risk you want to take. Everything's a risk, right? Everything has an opportunity cost. And yeah, like, unfortunately there are, are people that think that way. It reminds me of this saying my mom would say to me growing up and it was like, those who don't listen will feel like that's was coming up for me. It's like, yeah, like you can.

You can tell someone that something is important or even just friends, know, like growing up, having your girlfriend, they're dating this guy and you're like, girl, this guy is not good for you. It's not going to turn out well. We've all had those conversations or even girlfriends telling us this. And it's like, we don't listen. We're like, yeah, whatever, whatever, until it happens. Sometimes people learn by like through experience and having negative experiences, you know, but if you more often than not, yeah. Yeah, definitely more often than not. Even for me, you know,

seeing the, I mean, I've experienced it multiple times where like not having a savings like put me into debt and it still didn't click for me until I had that motivating reason to want to invest. And I think it's just like exploring the different reasons why something is important to you because everyone's why is going to look different. So for me saying like, if you lose your job, it might not be applicable to that person because like you said, one, they don't see it happening to them, but maybe they just

Jojo (42:26.716)
They probably don't see it happening to them because maybe they have a secure government job. But yeah, it's just, everyone has their different reasons or motivating factors. So you need to find that motivating factor. Sometimes it's like, it could be travel. I love to travel. So it's like, yeah, like I got tired of like going on these trips and coming back and like having all this debt to work off of, you know, or work off and you know, even slightly coming back from my trip, even like, before landing back in Canada, like there's that like angst of like.

Okay, I had a great time, but then all of that has just been like wiped out because I have to prepare for all this that I have to pay off, you know? So it's like, it doesn't feel good. And at some point you're like, yeah, like I actually want to aim for trying to be able to travel because I saved. And like, when I come back, I don't have to worry about that or have that experience or feeling. So everyone has their different motivating reasons and factors.

I think investing is one that really motivates people because everyone wants to get to a point where it's like, my money is working for me. Like you even talking about, you know, this relationship with money where you feel like you have to work hard and you have to struggle. Investing totally eradicates that, right? Like if you can master it. So just finding out that motivating reason. I love that. So for me, money is really just a transaction. Not even money, like abundance. Like the aspect of feeling or being resourced is really just.

a transaction. currency doesn't really need to be involved. I can say like, hey, I'm hungry today, I'm gonna go look for food. And I come across someone that has a bag of apples and like, I might not have currency to give them, but I can maybe help work in their garden for an hour in order to have a piece of the apple. You know what I mean?

And that's actually how civilization started. It started through bartering. There wasn't any currency involved at first. It was literally just like, have this, you have that, let's exchange. So when I think of collective wealth, it's not just building wealth for yourself, but ensuring that there's like this balance amongst all the relationships, either in your immediate circle, outside of you, the world at large, to maintain this balance in transactions. And I think...

Jojo (44:40.716)
why there's so much inequality today is that obviously we have a system, capitalism, which has been corrupted. Um, its original idea and the foundations of capitalism was so that everyone could really like thrive and have ownership and have access and build a life in whatever way they want to build a life on and have that kind of freedom, which like civilizations before never really had much of that. You were either like ruled by like kings and queens or like a monarchy or it was like feudalism. So you weren't really able to like.

own whatever you wanted. Someone had strings attached to the kind of light that you could live. So capitalism is kind of the first idea and concept where you can go work hard for your money and spend it however you like, which is great. But then there's this other element of capitalism where there is supposed to be the redistribution. So those that do have wealth are supposed to pay back into their communities through taxes, right? And that's why you hear a lot of people

bit more on the left side or socialists. People call people the socialists, but it's really how capitalism was supposed to work. It's like, okay, well, we want to make sure that there's always this balance. So those who have wealth pay taxes that go back into the communities. And that's how we make sure that everyone kind of has enough. And it's not like this growing inequality. But obviously that was corrupted, right? Because you have politicians who work with like...

greedy, wealthy elites who don't want to pay taxes and sometimes your taxes aren't going to the things that actually will make a substantial difference. If there's no redistribution, how can you maintain balance? And so it kind of comes back to that reciprocity. So there's like, it's something that I'm starting to talk about more like on my channels and this idea of like learning to give back. So you kind of balance the scale and it's, easy to see this on an individual level because for example, when you

donate to a charity of your choice. Actually studies have shown by you donating or like volunteering your time and effort, like it actually improves your happiness levels. Your cortisol levels go down in that moment of that exchange or knowing that you just positively impacted someone. Yeah, and like you just feel good. You just feel good about yourself knowing that you can help someone. So there's really like no loss in doing it. And even if you wanted to try practicing that on a very small scale,

Jojo (47:01.388)
You know, it is like asking your community, your friends, your family members, like, how can I support you? How can I help? Even if it's not financially. But you want to get to a place where even financially, something that I always do, sometimes I'll go in and throw a bit more money, but I have like $10 every month. It's very small going towards a Canadian woman shelter. And that feels good to me. It's like, my money's I'm contributing. Yeah. Yeah.

I'm contributing in my own way. Even being a coach, like me having this conversation with you is hopefully going to positively shift someone's perspective or help them in some tangible way. You know, so that's also how I'm doing my part of like building collective wealth. So a part of that is like, how are you also ensuring that other people are uplifted? Because when the skill isn't balanced, what do we see? War, crime. Yeah. Well, it's creating that complete circuitry because something that is

And always has been very big in my life is tithing and the 10 % taking that off and giving that back because you are being given so much. if you, if it can only go so far, if the funnel, if there's not that continuation, how is there going to create any flow? And that's, that's a huge part of my life. What I, you know, yeah. So I definitely hear you. And like at the end of the day, whether we like it or not, while money is physical, it is also energetic.

It's mental, it's the way that we think about it. It's emotional, it's the way that we feel about it. And then it's spiritual in the way that it like completely just is this ever perpetual cycle of give and take. So let's get messy with this mentally, emotionally and spiritually. Okay, mentally, we kind of said it, but like, actually, I'm gonna kind of do this a little differently. So we're just gonna like play with this a little bit, but mentally, I like what you said about the whys. So maybe,

you guys listening can think about like, what is your why? Mentally get very clear on what are the things that, what is the number that you want? What is, and the whys, but then to get deeper with that, the more you go with the whys and you keep asking yourself, maybe ask that question five times as Mel Robbins says, to get super granular with it, emotionally unpack.

Jojo (49:17.836)
Whoa, this has nothing to do with money at the end of the day. This has to do with security. This has to do with like fulfillment. This has to do with, with whatever. So what, if you were to like mentally, emotionally and spiritually, like give some tips here or just break it down, what would you say is like mentally the way to reframe or rewire? Yeah, think you just said it. the why.

funnel it down to one thing, getting clear on your why. And that also looks like getting clear on your values, just what's important to you and ensuring those two things are in alignment. So every time you go to spend your money on something, the why should be at the forefront. And does this why align with security or my spirituality or family, like whatever it is that you value? Yeah.

What would you say is like the main thing that emotionally people get blocked with when it comes to finances? Lack of gratitude, lack of gratitude. Yeah. Yes. Appreciation. You guys appreciate more. Appreciate more. Yeah. Cause when we talk about emotions, it's like the, it's wanting to feel good. Feelings, know, energy and motion. And that's usually these feelings that we have that come and go. So if you could try to maximize things that feel good, I like you're working on yourself.

more and more towards the spectrum of happiness and fulfillment. So the easiest way to do that, because we are sort of on autopilot and our mind is automatically going towards scarcity, it's looking at what you already have and practicing gratitude. And spiritually, what is spiritual alignment? What does abundance have to do with that? Actually, yeah, I would say that spiritually, it not only feels good, but it's the actions that you're taking on an everyday basis is working towards

the future version of yourself that you aspire to be. So it's like kind of that North Star, that overall purpose or mission that you have for your life and That it's not just rooted in like the instant gratification of the right now. Yeah, exactly. It's really getting to the root of like, who am I? Who am I? How do I want to serve? How do I want to be of purpose? And ensuring that that aligns with the way in which you are.

Jojo (51:41.305)
navigating your finances and your money. It's outside of the illusion of the 3D realm and like what society tells you you should aspire to acquire. It's coming from the self. Which like you need like the emotional, the mental, and in order to tie that all back into like the spiritual aspects. They all work together, right? They totally do. But I would say, yeah, the spiritual is like a coming home. It's coming back to the self, knowing who you are.

That would be the number one thing. You can't get clear on your values or why if you don't know who you are. I think you just in this conversation unlocked such a deeper level of really what it means to be abundant and just what money is because we, again, we use money all the time. It's the Apple pay. We don't even think about it. It's just, it's constantly working and leaving and coming in and again, leaving, but it's...

I don't know, through this conversation, I was like, wow, it really is a mindset because it starts there, starts mentally, even though it's tied so deeply emotionally, but spiritually, it just is that through way of what you can achieve, not from a price tag standpoint, but just a purpose of that circuitry that we were talking about. So, wow, Morgan, thank you so much for coming on Inside Out. Where can people find you?

YouTube, YouTube is where I'm trying to make my home right now at Morgan Blackman, my name. And then I have my sub-stack at The Wealth Letters, it's bit harder to find. But yeah, find me on YouTube and you can find me anywhere else, just to keep it simple. Amazing. Well, all of this will also be linked in the show notes. And you guys know where to find me at underscore insideout.podcast. Make sure you share this with a friend and guys connect with Morgan because you could be shifting your money mindset as well.

with a holistic wealth coach that could really change your life. mean, even in this like our conversation, you've really shifted the way I'm thinking about everything. I love, I just love the perspective you bring and just the open conversation, the vulnerability. So thank you so much for joining me. All right guys. See you next time. Have a great week. Bye.