Myths Keeping You Stuck: Intimacy, Passion & What Actually Makes Love Last with Monica Tanner

What if everything you've been told about love, intimacy, and compatibility is actually working against you? In this episode of Inside Out, Jojo sits down with relationship coach and RLT trained therapist Monica Tanner, host of the Secrets of Happily Ever After podcast and author of the bestselling book Bad Marriage Advice, to bust the biggest myths around relationships, intimacy, and passion.

They dig into why differences between partners create passion (not problems), what intimacy actually means (hint: it's not just sex), how to get out of roommate territory using the 3% rule, and why "happy wife, happy life" might be doing more damage than you think. Whether you're single, dating, or decades into a marriage, this conversation will shift the way you see love and yourself.

Thank you for listening! Don't forget to follow along on social media @_insideout.podcast, rate and review. And Join the MESy Mailing List for exclusive content, insights on what is coming up and more! 

Transcript

speaker-0 (00:06.978)
Welcome to the Inside Out Podcast. I'm your host JoJo and this is where we will navigate the mess together that is mental, emotional and spiritual. Let's get messy.

speaker-0 (00:27.374)
Hi everyone. Welcome. Happy Wednesday. So today's guest is Monica Tanner. She's a relationship coach and she's RLT trained, which means she's trained in relational life therapy. She hosts the secrets of Happily Ever After podcast and she just released a bestselling book called Bad Marriage Advice. I mean, how cool is that title? So, I mean, I definitely want to read it. You know, guys, I'm not married yet, but I think that is an amazing title and very catchy. So today we're not just going to be talking about

marriage, we're to be talking about all sorts of relationships and basically the biggest myths in relationships, specifically intimacy and passions. So whether that's myths that we've absorbed from our parents or movies or culture and that we've actually never questioned and that we're quietly working up against, this is what we're going to tap into. So let's get messy and Monica, welcome to Inside Out.

speaker-1 (01:21.282)
Thank you so much, Judd, I'm excited to be here with you.

speaker-0 (01:23.874)
Before we dive in, I just want to know what made you dedicate your work to specifically relationships and what made you write a book called Bad Marriage Advice?

speaker-1 (01:35.83)
Yeah, I have always been kind of obsessed with especially marriage relationships because I grew up in a family that I thought was perfect, right? I grew up on Disney movies where the characters live happily ever after and that's all you see. And then when I was 12 years old, my parents sat me down and was like, we're getting a divorce. And I was like, what? That doesn't even make sense, right? And so I kind of dedicated.

You know, even at a very young age, I would observe the couples around me and I was like, man, people don't seem very happy, right? It feels like everybody's just trucking along, like doing the work of life and like, if we're not having fun, like what are we even doing? And so I wanted to figure out what are the secrets to living happily ever after, right? To creating connection with other people that feels good.

And so that's what I did. I studied sociology and child development in college, and I wanted to go on to be a social worker to help marriage and family dynamics. I met my husband. We started our family. Our marriage started a little rocky. And so I had to get really, really granular about learning not only the skills of relationality, which are not taught in very many places.

but also learning about myself and my own fears and my own hangups about really being vulnerable and letting myself love and be loved by another person. so, yeah, the great thing about relational skills is they work everywhere. They work in your marriage, they work with your children, they work with your parents, they work with your coworkers and your neighbors and your fellow students at school. You can use these relational skills

anywhere.

speaker-0 (03:26.766)
As you were talking, a few things just popped into my head and I want to get back to the relational skills because I think that's very interesting to sort of break open a little bit. But you said something that a lot of people don't seem to be happy in their relationships. And that is like an epidemic that I'm seeing just even playing out in the world that I'm in where it's like, how are you guys together? it just because you think it's time? This is like proximity. Like what is really like holding this? What is the foundation built on?

And I mean, it's made me kind of run in the opposite direction and be like, I want to make sure that whoever I'm with is like, it's only an additive to my life. Nothing that's like detracting and isn't going to, is just going to be like exponentially making my life better rather than worse. I'm sure you see people that aren't happy. What is your idea or maybe a thought that's like, wait, why are these people together? What do you think?

speaker-1 (04:26.22)
Well, as humans, we're wired for connection. mean, even from young infants, if they're not touched, if they're not like handled and loved, they will not thrive, right? mean, human beings, need touch, we need connection, we need love, we need somebody who is, you know, kind of...

aware of us, witnessing us, we want to find our other half, right? That's one of the myths in my book is that you both come into the relationship as whole humans, not half of a human. I think that's really important to note, we are. We're looking around in the world for somebody to be with, somebody to connect with, somebody who can witness our lives.

We long for that connection. So that's one reason. Two, it's just, it's very cultural, I think. Marriage is kind of the next step when you love somebody. And I think when you start to connect with somebody else, your hormones and pheromones are doing the heavy lifting. And you just want to be with this person and what could possibly go wrong. I always say that marriage starts the day that you wake up next to someone and go, God, what have I done, right?

speaker-0 (05:43.563)
No.

speaker-1 (05:45.546)
That's when the work begins. That's when you realize, you look over and you realize that you married somebody who sees the world differently than you do. They experience things differently than you. And so the goal of marriage, I say like the end goal, is to create a deep and abiding friendship with another person. Like that is the secret to happily ever after. And how do we do that?

We get curious and we learn. We recognize, respect, and value each other's differences, which is what's really hard for people to do.

speaker-0 (06:23.33)
Yeah, I think the foundation, not even starting out, but if that's built in friendship, I think that's just so, so important. And I mean, I've been guilty of, you know, just kind of diving in head first, not really knowing that person. Then you wake up one day and you're like, yeah, wait, what? And it might not be from a marriage standpoint, but it is from even just like, they are your boyfriend or your girlfriend. And you're like, wait a second, who are you again? And it's like, no, like you need to...

I mean, you don't need to, but ideally you would want to have something way more solid. So going back to relational life therapy, what are some tools that you can maybe impart on us and give a little secret away of like what those look like and maybe how we can implement them in the everyday?

speaker-1 (07:15.092)
Yeah, I mean, and when I was talking about relation, like you have a real relationship with yourself and a real relationship with something bigger than yourself. So that like encompasses the things that you talk about in your podcast. But yes, I mean, I think a really important skill that we can all learn, single, married, divorced, doesn't matter, is that we actually

teach people how to treat us. We all are so individual and so our individual blueprint is so different. so a lot of people just think that other people should behave in a certain way or treat them in a certain way. And what's important to remember is that we're all so different and so you've got to teach the people around you how to treat you well.

And that means making requests. So I've been on podcasts all day actually and talking about this very skill because it's so important. And what we as humans do when we don't like something or something isn't going our way or we're unhappy, we tend to complain. That's what we do. We call up our moms or our girlfriends or our bros at the gym or we journal. So whether it's expressed or internal,

We have complaints about things. And so the most important thing or like not most important, but here's a skill. Under every complaint is a request or a desire. And if we will get really good at figuring out what those things are early before they become deep resentments, it's like a huge key to the kingdom.

So if I'm complaining about the fact that you were late to this podcast, I was actually late, ha. That's the irony. But if you're going to go complain about it, there is a desire that people respect your time and show up for you when they say they're going to. That is the request underneath the complaint. So if you say a podcast host and your guests are always late,

speaker-1 (09:26.594)
That's what you're complaining about. I'm so frustrated. Why did my guests always pop on late? The request under that is, I would like people to value my time and show up at the time appointed or five minutes early to our appointments. And the way you express a request, and this is like very broad, but you're gonna put it in the information that you send to your guests. Listen, punctuality is really important to me.

So if you want to be a guest on my show, you are committing to showing up five minutes before the hour ready to record the episode. That's how you teach people how to treat you as a podcast host. That's a request. Now, the thing is, is you're never taking away anyone's agency with a request. You can make the request, and I can either choose to acknowledge the request and fulfill it for you or not. I always have my agency.

But you are teaching me how to treat you as a podcast host with respect by making your request.

speaker-0 (10:33.304)
like the way you framed that. You took it out of completely emotional or partnered partnership. I think it does get a little bit heightened though when the relationship is added to that because someone could be like, well, am I inadequate? They can run through the list of their I'm not good enoughs, whatever those are for them. How do you sort of tackle that or bust even those myths around like,

someone even thinking that about themselves or that that person is like, you know, gonna leave them because they're unhappy with a way that they're showing up.

speaker-1 (11:09.942)
Yeah, so I work a lot with like anxious attachment, is what, you know, the, the sentiment that you just said is the person that's going to leave them, right? It's very hard to be vulnerable when you have lots of defenses up or protections around being hurt because that's what you experience. You have some sort of abandonment, wounding, right? And so what I like to work with people and teach people about is living in the present moment.

because there is always the chance that somebody's gonna leave you, whether voluntary or involuntary, right? You could get into a relationship and you could be so head over heels and this person could decide to leave. Or you could be in a relationship and be head over heels and the person could get in a car accident the next day and they'll be gone. And so do you want to live in a way that you're so afraid

of this person leaving, or do you want to appreciate the present moment in which you have now with that person? And so it's about reframing this idea of life is fragile, relationships are fragile, and are you going to be sad that you missed all of the goodness in the relationship because you are so focused on doing everything in your power to not...

Allow yourself the vulnerability of what happens if this person leaves.

speaker-0 (12:40.014)
Taking everything day by day, I like what you just said there, because tomorrow is never, ever guaranteed. And you could plan to spend the rest of your life with that person, but anything, like you said, can happen. So I think treating every relationship with the fragility and just seeing it as like, is what we have today. Obviously, we want tomorrow, et cetera. However, how can I show up for you in these moments here and now?

speaker-1 (13:09.304)
Yeah, and that requires a lot of gratitude. I always say, like, let's shift from fear and anxiety to gratitude. What are you grateful for? Like, anytime you start to feel like a panic or stress that this person might leave, get into gratitude. I am so grateful that this person is here with me right now. I'm so grateful for her laugh. I'm so grateful for, you know, her...

holding hands with me, like whatever it is, right? Get in the moment and get grateful for what's happening.

speaker-0 (13:39.81)
that's a really good way to ground yourself. So I wanna break into intimacy and passion. There are so many myths around these two huge words. And I think the first one that I wanna break open is when people think intimacy, they immediately go sex. And like, that's just so, you know, not the case. And I wanna hear what your biggest...

myth bust is around the word intimacy.

speaker-1 (14:13.6)
Yeah, well, when you bring up those two words, intimacy and passion, I'm obsessed with those two words. I love them. And I think the biggest misconception kind of in society as a whole is we're afraid of differences and conflict. so, you know, oftentimes I have couples that come to see me and they're like, we're just not compatible. We just, there's too many different, we're just too different. We can't get along. And I'm like, are you kidding me? Difference is awesome.

So just personally, my husband and I couldn't possibly be more different. I mean, we were raised in different parts of the country. We were raised in different religions. We were raised in completely different family structures. We have so many differences when we consider the way we think about money, the way we think about sex, the way we think about church, the way we think about kids. It's very different, right? And what I always say is our differences create the passion in our marriage.

and navigating the differences create the intimacy. Intimacy is into me see. It's understanding each other, not trying to make each other the same. And so I think where couples go wrong is, or any type of relationship goes wrong, is that you forget the fact that the person next to you is so very different, that they are interpreting the world through their own lens of experience.

perspective, opinion, preferences, right? And the fact that they're different from you is a good thing. So if you're fighting tit for tat over the facts of like what happened, like it happened this way, no, it happened this way, no, why can't you just see it my way? Why can't you do it this way? As if there was a right or an absolute truth, there never will be. Because if you're talking about two different people, there are two different realities. And so the...

One of the most important skills I think you can develop before marriage and like is really valuable in marriage is learning to have compassionate curiosity for your partner's subjective reality. Your partner is different. They have a different reality. You don't have to make the realities match up and agree with each other. All you have to do is understand the reality. And when you do that, two things can be true at the same time.

speaker-1 (16:36.628)
I see how you feel strongly about this. I understand that that's important to you. And I feel differently about it.

speaker-0 (16:44.472)
think it's really cool the way you just said that you and your husband couldn't be more different, but what brings you together is your passion to understand it and that creates the intimacy. I want to kind of go a little bit deeper into that because if you are so opposite and so different and just as that couple was talking to you being like, we're incompatible, we're just so different.

How do you bridge that gap then? Because I think a lot of people could just throw in the towel. But it sounds like you and your husband have this beautiful way of bridging that gap and navigating through that and seeing, you know, because even as you were speaking, I was like, well, isn't that a beautiful thing if you are different the way you see the world differently? Because there's so much more to you have children, teach your children, you know, it's that it's more of a well-rounded perspective rather than just like,

you know, a fish eye or like, you know, lens that's really small.

speaker-1 (17:46.68)
So that's a great point. Yes. I mean, shouldn't you want to be different than your partner? Yes, because it gives you a better perspective. I always say, if you spend your whole life dedicated to just your perspective, you could end up looking at the butt of an elephant for your entire life, right? But maybe you have a partner that sees the front of the elephant and you're stuck looking at the back, right? Without them, you're stuck looking at the butt of an elephant. But if you take into consideration their perspective and you learn about it, you ask good questions,

then all of a sudden now you're getting a sense of this magnificent animal instead of being stuck looking at its butt. So that is the value of, but it's easier said than done because here's why. I like to use the example of money. My husband and I see money very, very differently. I am a spender and he's a saver. And so we used to really butt heads. So like a good example early in our marriage is we would go out to eat with like a couple or something.

and we would go spend more money than my husband was comfortable with at dinner. And then specifically this couple, they wanted to go get frozen yogurt afterwards. And my husband was like, are you freaking kidding me? We just spent so much on dinner and now you want to go get frozen yogurt? Like, he's about to explode. And here's what I'm thinking. Why are you making this so unfun? Like, why are you trying to ruin this experience for everyone by being

like all tense about money, right? Like he's on one end of the spectrum and I'm on the other. And here's how just it's hard to like value each other's differences. I'm like, you're snuffing out the fun in this. Like, why are you being this way? Right? But when I took a moment to like, I'm taking it personally. I'm like, you're trying to destroy our night. Why are you doing this? But when I really got to know him, when I understood what he went through as a child, how his dad had

five children he was supporting before he finished law school. He remembers a time where they would eat only wheat bread and on a Saturday they would go buy one candy bar for six children to share. They would each get one sixth of a Snickers bar and that would be like their treat for the week. Literally, he was so poor. And so the value of money and the way he interprets it is very, very different.

speaker-1 (20:12.002)
from my growing up, my parents were both like, you know, masters, educated, like great jobs, like I mean, any, the newest toy on the market, I had everything. And so money to me has a very different meaning, right? Like we went out to eat several times a week. He remembers going out to eat like one time on his birthday or like he had the rotation, there was six kids. So like every six years he got to go out to eat for his birthday, right? Like we went on vacation several times a year, his family like,

he remembers one big vacation, right? So that wasn't like visiting family or friends. So his experience about money is very different. And when I was taking it really personally, it was really annoying and it sucked. was like, why are you trying to not, why are you trying to be a jerk right now, right? But when I understood where he came from, that was another level. Then when I understood how like now we've been married for 23 years and we started,

If we didn't have my view of money, we probably never would have gone on a really cool vacation. Because I'm like, Carpe Diem, let's take the trip, let's go, right? So if it was just him, we would have never done, if we just did it his way, we would have never gone on a really cool vacation. Then when we went on that cool vacation, my husband was like, that's awesome, let's save our money. So now, almost 25 years later, now we go on frequent, really nice vacations.

saved, right? So with my skill set, we learned that vacations were cool. With his skill set, now we get to go on awesome vacations because we saved a lot of money on things that were completely unnecessary anyways, like eating frozen yogurt after spending a lot of money on dinner, right? It's a simple thing. But when you view it as we took the best of my values and the way I see money and the best of his values and the way he sees money,

and we put those together, now we've created a life that's awesome, that we both love, that neither of us could have done on our own. So when we travel, we have this really funny thing we do at the Tanner Way. So we'll pack peanut butter and jelly sandwiches to eat like all the way, like whatever travel, like we've gone really cool places where they're like, you're traveling for like 24 hours to get there. And we will eat peanut butter and jelly sandwiches and bananas like all the way there.

speaker-1 (22:37.678)
But then when we get there, eat like kings. We get to eat like really cool stuff, right? And so that's the Tanner way. We cut corners so that we can live large.

speaker-0 (22:48.024)
I love that. You know, as you were talking, it reminded me how people always say, you have to be on the same page about money, religion and politics.

speaker-1 (22:55.454)
my gosh, I hate it when people say that. I'm like, how boring would that be?

speaker-0 (23:01.134)
I mean, you know, until maybe this conversation, I've kind of been like, yeah, you should at least have a respect for where that person is coming from and like be able to like navigate it together, like at least. But I like the way that you just, you know, broke down the money myth. We can call that a myth, right? The money religion politics, I'm gonna add sex in there myth, because it doesn't, it just, as long as you figure out.

your way and it doesn't have to be one way or the other that like either of you have come from unless the other person's like wait I like that way better it doesn't necessarily have to lock you into anything you can just create your own reality.

speaker-1 (23:41.516)
And I call that collaboration, not compromise. So that's one of the biggest myths that I like to attack is when you think of compromise, you think of I give a little, you give a little, and now like neither of us are getting what we want. But you learn to collaborate, which means what do I value? What do you value? We get curious about what's important to both of us. And now we can get creative and do something.

better than either of us would have done on our own. So compromise is this. Collaboration is this.

speaker-0 (24:17.23)
So, since this is not a video podcast, Monica was just putting her hands together at the bottom being like, compromise. And then at the top where... Yes, meeting in the middle, compromise.

speaker-1 (24:30.146)
Meeting in the middle.

collaboration is taking the best of both and elevating the solution to something awesome.

speaker-0 (24:42.414)
Yeah, I like that. think collaborating and bringing both sides is so, so important. I want to circle back to something that we sort of glossed over a little bit, but the intimacy and why people specifically go straight to physical. Why do you think that is and what do you have to say about that?

speaker-1 (25:07.15)
So I think sexuality is a very crucial part of who we are as a human because there are so many messages that we get from society and culture and Hollywood and the porn industry and all the different places. It's very hard to weed out what healthy sexuality is. what I love, the analogy that I love the most is of Emily Nagoski who compares our sexuality to a garden. So when we're young,

we have very little control of what's planted in our garden. It's what our parents teach us, it's what our culture teaches us, like seeds just get thrown in there and they grow. And then when we're an adult, it becomes our responsibility to clear, clean and to care for that garden. And a lot of times that means pulling out a lot of the things that don't serve us, the ideas or beliefs.

that aren't healthy and that don't serve us. Most of us have to completely start from scratch, rototill that garden, get rid of all the junk that's in there and start fresh. And that's what's so cool about being in a relationship with somebody that you feel safe and comfortable, that you can create the emotional safety that's required for sexual intimacy.

Again, it goes far beyond sex, but it's pleasure, it's play, it's the power to create. When you think of intimacy as sex, a lot of time you're thinking of a goal. The goal is to orgasm, right? That would be the goal of sexual intimacy. But the reality is that sexual energy and tapping into that intimacy, it's like...

kids going to a playground. It's like the adult version of play. When kids go to the playground, they don't have a lot of goals. They're just exploring. They're playing. They're using their imagination. You see a lot of times they'll get into character, right? They'll play house or they'll play restaurant or they're just discovering different things. And we need and want that as adults as well. And so our

speaker-1 (27:26.794)
intimacy, our sexual relationship is all about that as well. It's about discovery and exploration. It's about acknowledgement, about understanding, about feeling safe, feeling seen, but also creating some mystery and excitement and fun and playful energy. Sexuality is our power to create. And so we have to use that and channel it in healthy ways. And most of us don't know how to do that.

And so it requires a lot of self-discovery, a lot of going back and what do I believe about sex and sexuality? What was I taught? What is serving me and what really isn't serving me? And how do I now plant a garden that is nourishing and enriching to me and my partner?

speaker-0 (28:17.826)
So I want to go even deeper on this because I think the whole physical realm and sex and everything is not something that we are even really discussing with our families growing up. mean, yeah, like on our, whether we, you know, become sexually active in our teenage years or into our twenties or later in our thirties, I think there's a lot of

speaker-1 (28:35.018)
know, our families do not, right?

speaker-0 (28:46.478)
embarrassment and performative aspects that can be shame, all of it that can really crop up. And I like what you said about exploration and creation because I think the deeper we get with ourselves and our own like understanding of like what's important to us and how we want to be in relationship and using that energy.

you do start to, you know, sort of flow in more of a playful, like, exploration and get away from that performative. And you want to be considered good and like all these things, but you're not actually, it's kind of an out of body experience rather than like, you're in the moment, kind of childlike, like you said, just there's no agenda. It's just to play and to explore and to like create. And so I really, I really like what you said about that because I think that's

a perspective switch that maybe some of us need when it comes to physical intimacy.

speaker-1 (29:56.34)
Yeah, and I really like the playground analogy because good sex requires freedom with boundaries. So you take a kid to the playground and can you imagine if the parent was like literally holding the child's hand on every single thing that they did? They were like walking them up the stairs to the slide, going down the slide, holding their hands, you know, holding them on the monkey bars. Like, that's not good sex.

It requires the freedom to be able to explore and play and discover and climb around and like do all the things, right? But within the bounds of the playground, you don't want the kids running out into the street. So you create and that's what you get to do with your partner together. Like nobody else gets a say in that. You want to, you're going to create boundaries around sex, which is, you know, what I'm comfortable with and like, you know, what...

what is good for us together as a partnership, but you've got boundaries, but freedom within those boundaries. It's not an obligation. It's not a chore. It's not heavily, heavily supervised by another person. It's the freedom to just be who you are, discover who you want to be, try new things, right? That's part of kids on a playground is like today.

I'm going to be a firefighter and tomorrow maybe I'll show up as a gardener. Who knows? It's about learning who you are and who you want to be and doing that, it's a very embodied, it's doing it with and through your body.

speaker-0 (31:35.47)
Okay, I want to, I've never done this before, but I want to do some like rapid-fire questions. What is the number one piece of bad marriage advice that you hear that you're like, oh my god, this needs to go away? Oh, why?

speaker-1 (31:50.06)
Happy wife, happy life.

Well, you really want to create a relationship where only one person is getting what they want? I mean, that's silly, but it's so funny because you hear men say it with so much pride and it's like handed down from generation to generation. You see the father, the father-in-law up there giving the groom advice. Like, listen, as long as your wife's happy, that's all you need. Like she wears the pant, make sure she's happy and then all will be well. Do you really think that man is happy? Like revolving his entire life around another person?

What if we changed happy wife, happy life to happy spouse, happy house? What if both of us cared for each other's comfort? And then everybody gets what they want, right?

speaker-0 (32:36.334)
That's amazing.

speaker-1 (32:38.636)
I just think people have been saying it for so long. It's so cliche and it's so misguided.

speaker-0 (32:44.094)
That's great. When couples come to you, what is the biggest myth that you are surprised that they are holding onto?

speaker-1 (32:52.75)
Lately, I've gotten a lot of this divorce is not an option. I think that's terrible advice and I think it keeps people very, very stuck. Again, it's well-meaning. All of this advice is well-meaning. Somebody has good intentions by giving it, but they'll say things like, take divorce off the table. Don't say the D word. You're locked in for life. And do we really, really want to be in a marriage that we are confined to?

Yeah, no. How about both couples create a marriage that we choose to be in? The way I see that divorce is not an option affecting people is I had a husband, he came to me and he's like, I am having such a hard time living with my wife. She will not change. I'm so unhappy, but I can't, she won't make any changes. She won't try. She won't.

make any type of effort because, and I'm like, well, why don't you tell her like things need to change or I'm out? And he's like, I can't do that. Like we made covenants with each other. Like we're locked in. And I'm like, well, why do you think she feels like she can't change or she doesn't have any desire or motivation to change? And he's like, like he didn't see it. You're locked in. What motivation do we have to be better or make each other's life more comfortable?

speaker-0 (34:21.399)
Yeah.

speaker-1 (34:21.601)
Right? So we have to know that divorce is always an option. In fact, I have couples that I love that they'll renew their vows every single year. Like every year they're like, do we want to do this again for another year? Like that way they ensure they're creating a marriage that both of them choose into. Because don't you want to be in a marriage where your partner's like, I choose to be here because I think you're freaking amazing versus I'm stuck here because I made a promise and now I can't.

Go back on it.

speaker-0 (34:53.312)
It's reminding me of those couples that do like an audit of their relationship, which I think is kind of brilliant. And it doesn't even have to be like anything like we're sitting down and we're like breaking apart everything. But I think it's just fun to be like, okay, like how are you feeling about X, Y, and Z? I mean, you audit your bank account, you do your tax, whatever. You break apart, you audit your business. Like why are we not looking at the most important?

I mean, I think who you choose to spend your life with is the most important decision you ever make. And that's, you know.

speaker-1 (35:26.27)
Yearly audits are so crucial. I do this with my husband and I teach this. It's so important. Once a year, we get away for a week. And this is what we dream. This is where we plan our future. We future cast, we dream, we create the reality that we want. But then we go back and we audit the, what are we doing to get there? And are we on the right track?

It's like a pilot on a plane. You've got all these instruments. You get off just like 1%. You can be like completely in a different country by the time you get there, right? So it's like together we're future casting. We're creating the destination and then we're making sure that we are on track to get there.

speaker-0 (36:12.334)
Mm. I love that. Very well said. I'm gonna think more about the auditing relationship thing for myself. so... Audit everything? What do you do with couples that say they've drifted into roommate territory?

speaker-1 (36:18.973)
Yeah, I did everything.

speaker-1 (36:29.486)
You've to get the spark back, right? You've got to tap back into that energy and that life force. Well, I call this the 3 % rule. I say if you will commit to spending 3 % of your time together, you will be able to break that roommate rut. well, okay. I think that paired with also

examining your resentments. talked about, I think we talked about that in the beginning is, what are you complaining about? And get real clear on what that desire is underneath. Make a request, take each other on, is what I call it. it's like fighting for the things that you want in the relationship and constantly being willing to make requests of your partner. that, but 3 % of your time you should be spending together. So that's

And the great thing about time is nobody gets any more, nobody gets any less. You can't buy more time, you can't earn more time, you can't bench press your way to more time. Nobody gets more or less time than anyone else. So the reality is, is we all get 1,440 minutes in a day. If you will spend 20 of those 1,440 minutes in a day connecting with each other, asking each other about your inner worlds, even if you're spending 24-7 together, which most couples are not,

you're experiencing the world in a very different way. So for 20 minutes, ask each other, what did you learn today? What was exciting for you today? What was stressing you out today? Is there anything I can do to make your life easier? Those types of questions, 20 minutes. Just go back and forth and learn about each other for 20 minutes. Then you have 168 hours in a week. Spend three of those hours in date night. And date night is exactly what it sounds like. It doesn't have to be expensive, elaborate, or far from home.

It just needs to be something that the two of you experience together on purpose. learn a new skill, try a new restaurant, take a walk, do something active, enjoy each other for three hours a week. And then like I said, once a year, take one week out of the 52 that all of us get, you gotta plan it out. Some of us are very busy, we've got kids and all the things. I promise.

speaker-1 (38:53.346)
There is nothing better you can do for your kids or your business or your career than to take one week and do that future casting audit sexy time with your partner. That's how you stay out of roommate syndrome.

speaker-0 (39:09.306)
All right, Monica. So before I let you go, I want to get messy. So that's mentally, emotionally, and spiritually. So mentally, what is one belief or a thought that you would want every person struggling in their relationship to either challenge or let go of?

speaker-1 (39:27.808)
Ooh, that is a great question. That somehow conflict or difference is bad. Like, let's get real comfortable with conflict. Conflict is a fantastic way. All relationships, so I'll say this, all relationships are an endless cycle of harmony, disharmony, and repair. This is from a very young age. Even, this is like from the work of Edtronic, who studied mothers and infants.

and you can watch them in real time, they'll be connected in harmony, and then the infant will start to cry, there's a disconnect, and then the mother will soothe the child, that's repair. That goes on for our entire lives with all our relationships. Harmony, disharmony, and repair. Strength, resilience, trust, intimacy, all of the goodness comes through repair.

and you can't get to repair without disharmony. So don't be afraid of conflict and disharmony. Just learn how to repair well.

speaker-0 (40:32.332)
Hmm. Emotionally. What emotion do you think is most present in relationships that have lost intimacy? Like what is it that's sitting underneath it all but not really being talked about?

speaker-1 (40:45.442)
disappointment. Unmet expectations create a lot of disappointment and the way to combat that is to what are you complaining about figure out the request and make it give your partner the opportunity to come through for you.

speaker-0 (41:02.382)
And spiritually, do you think that relationships, marriage or otherwise, can be a spiritual practice? And if so, why and what does that look like?

speaker-1 (41:13.814)
Absolutely, because marriage is a crucible for growth. You've got somebody who's seeing all of your weaknesses, shortcomings, blind spots. And so if you are willing, marriage is a laboratory for massive growth. And that is spiritual.

speaker-0 (41:35.49)
Yeah. It's the best workout you can get. The best mirror that you ever look at. Love that. Well, Monica, thank you so much. And where can people find you?

speaker-1 (41:42.062)
I'm just kidding.

speaker-1 (41:50.11)
Yeah, so you can find out all about my free resources and how to work with me at my website, which is just monica tanner.

speaker-0 (41:56.622)
And you guys that will be linked in the show notes. Monica again, thank you so much. And you guys know where to find me at underscore inside out dot podcast. Make sure you're subscribed on sub stack and I'll see you guys all next week. Have a great week. Bye.