Lit Vibes Only

Ep. 72: Lit It or Quit It: Demon Copperhead

• Lit Vibes Only Podcast

Share episode

Join Kelsey and Amanda in a wild debate over 'Demon Copperhead.' Amanda loves the gritty realism and social commentary; Kelsey thinks it's a depressing slog with terrible narration. Expect laughs, drama, and Kelsey wishing she could 'quit' this book. Spoiler: Amanda is not happy!


00:00 Welcome to Lit Vibes Only!

00:27 Follow Us on Our Socials!

01:36 Current Reads

10:29 Summary of ‘Demon Copperhead’

23:52 Book Discussion

41:19 LITerally the Best or LITerally the Worst

01:04:48 Final Thoughts and Social Media


Send us a text

Follow us on TikTok & Youtube @litvibesonlypodcast and on Instagram @litvibesonly_podcast. You can also email us at litvibesonlypodcast@gmail.com We'd love to hear from you!

See you on Mondays!

Kelsey:

Welcome to Lit Vibes Only, where we lit the shit outta books we love and hate. I'm Kelsey, the unhinged, diehard, romantic and fantasy reader.

Amanda:

And I'm Amanda, the insightful, thrill seeker and historical fiction nerd. Welcome friends. Welcome. Hi, we're so glad you're here for yet another Monday episode with your faves, your Fave people. Before we dive into today's lit or quitted episode, as always, a really quick reminder where you can find us on socials. We are on Instagram at Lit Vibes only podcast, and TikTok and YouTube at Lit Vibes only podcast. So if you are not already doing all the things, go like, follow, comment, subscribe, please, and thank you. And then of course. If you're sitting out there and you still, for whatever reason, have not rated and reviewed our podcast, we would appreciate you so deeply now and forever. If you would, take a moment, whether you're on Apple Podcast or on Spotify, hit that five star rating, and if you've got a little bit of extra time today, write a one or two line review for us. If you're on Spotify, that's just gonna be a comment on this or another episode since you aren't able to review the entire podcast on Spotify. Thank you so much for your support. We're so excited to be again in the new year. We're still trucking right along with this podcast. And hey, we're so excited. We're just, we're glad. We're glad that you're here. We're glad to record this. We're glad to talk about books and yeah. What are you reading, Kelsey?

Kelsey:

I'm about to start another Ali Hazelwood book. Oh.'cause I just finished this book and so I need a different speed. Okay. Book. Okay. And by this book you mean demon copperhead? Yes. Okay. It's the second to last. Oh, and I just saw that brimstone is also ready for me'cause Oh, on your living. Yeah. I started it and I've been so tired lately and it's, it was, it's December still. Mm-hmm. Just for people. So it awareness it's December 21st. The last three weeks were so rough. At work. Oh my god. Kids are popping off. Yep. And so always happens before the holidays. And I just felt so tired and I wasn't able to get through the whole book during my first Yeah. Rental or borrow of first attempt. Yeah. I re-upped it and so now I can borrow it again, but not in love. I think it's the second to last Ali Hazelwood book I need to read. Oh, okay. I'll be able to do my like whole ranking. Yes. That's crazy. It's

Amanda:

wild. That is wild. I'm so excited. And this, see, this episode will be dropping Yeah. After we did the Love Hypothesis that dropped earlier this month. Mm-hmm. So

Kelsey:

yeah, we will have read two ly will be the perfect time to do my review.

Amanda:

Oh yeah.'cause it can tie in with our episode Love Hypothesis episode. Yeah, absolutely. So we've now read two Allie Hazelwoods on this. Podcast. Oh, this podcast. I will say yeah, you've already listened to the episode. I did like it much more than bride. And I think, yeah, that's really her niche and she should stay firmly in that lane. You haven't read meat though. You didn't you even didn't like mate as much as bride and you liked bride. So I love bride. I think I'm good with not reading this, se, but you know what I do appreciate when anyone steps outside of their comfort zone and tries something new and experiments, life's too short not to fair. Yes. So glad you're enjoying that. I am reading one of my favorite authors. Holly Jackson. She wrote, oh yeah, she wrote, she writes a lot of YA thrillers, which I've read and loved, but she, this past year, 2025, she released, not quite dead yet, and it was on my Libby for ages. I've been like waiting for months and months for it to finally come in, so I'm finally reading it. And so it's an adult thriller and the premise of the book is really interesting. This woman gets attacked in her home and like it's, her head gets bashed in right with a baseball bat. She doesn't die, so it's like attempted murder. But what happens is there's a sliver of bone that's basically pressing up against this artery in her brain. So she's gonna die in seven days. And so basically she decides, I know it's wild. She decides that she's gonna find out who murdered her. She's gonna spend her last week on earth solving her own murder. So it's like this really cool, wonky Holly Jackson premise and. I'm really enjoying it. I've never yeah. I've never come across a thriller like that, no, exactly. Like it's a very, yeah. It's a very unique premise and it's, as someone who reads a lot of thrillers, I'm always looking for something new and different and outta the box. Yeah. So I'm excited. It's interesting. This month has been a very slow reading month for me. Mm-hmm. I feel like one, since I hit my reading goal a while ago, I was like, oh, I can just focus on other things. Yeah. And then, there's things going on with school and the holidays, et cetera. Mm-hmm. Yeah. So normally this is a book I would've devoured in like two days, but it's, I'm just taking my sweet time. There you go. With this one. But it's been fun. I'm surprised you haven't had me read

Kelsey:

one of her books yet.

Amanda:

Yeah, I did. We read The Reappearance of Rachel Price. Oh, that was Holly Jackson. Yeah, that was Holly Jackson. Yeah, because it was between that or Good Girl's Guide to Murder, but I liked Rachel Price better, so

Kelsey:

yeah. Who is the new thriller author that's based in Seattle? Or that does like Seattle.

Amanda:

Oh my God. Why am I blanking on her name? And I read is it Jennifer? Jennifer Hillier. Jennifer Hillier, okay. Yeah. I was like, she wrote Wonderland, what is it? Yeah, Wonderland. The Butcher, all those. Okay, she's great. I'm gonna have you read one of her books as well that will be upcoming, but I think for next month I'm gonna have you read, some historical fiction.'cause it's been a minute. So I'm gonna have you read a Ruti book, which we'll talk about later. So God, anyhow, we are here today to talk about, this was my top read of 2024, I think.

Kelsey:

But it came out in 2022, right?

Amanda:

Yes. Yes. It won the Pulitzer Prize. And I was just like. Obsessed with this book, or I am obsessed with this book and it's Demon Copperhead by Barbara King Silver. I first encountered her work years ago when I read Poisonwood Bible. Which I love. One of my top reads. And so when this book came out, I was really excited to read it for multiple reasons. One,'cause I love her. I think she's a great author. Mm-hmm. Two, this book was set in Appal Appalachia or Appalachia, depending on how you pronounce it. Both of them are correct and I, spent time growing up there. And it's also based on David Copperfield and I read the abridged version of that book when I was younger, so I was like, oh, this is so cool. So I was really excited to have Kelsey read it. It is a very popular book. I think it's got, it got quite a bit of traction when it came out. It's very well awarded. And it's a little bit different than anything we've read in terms of. One, it's a longer book than I normally have. Kelsey Reed. Mm-hmm. We haven't read a book that focuses on this particular demographic or like region of the United States. And it really dives into the history of Appalachia and like the social issues happening there. So yeah, I just, I thought it'd be something different. It's not historical fiction and it's not a thriller. It's really just like adult, isn't it historical fiction? No, because it doesn't take place in the past. Not, I mean it does'cause it like it's coming like eighties and nineties, eighties story. I guess is it's not, he's not born in the eighties. I think he's, it's a nineties to two thousands book, I believe. Okay. So it's not super historical fiction, but yeah it is a coming of age story. You're following, demon copperhead from, birth to adulthood. But yeah, so anyhow, those are all the reasons why I had Kelsey read it and thanks. So I'm very curious very curious because like this book, I have given No hints. We have not talked about this at all. We haven't texted about it. And like I said, this is like one of my all time favorite books. So, Kelsey, Kelsey dearest was this book a lit it or

Kelsey:

quit it for you? It was an absolute. Quit it. A thousand percent. Quit it. Wait, what? And I'm so mad at you for having, wait, are you joking? Are kidding? Kidding? I'm not joking at all. Are you kidding? And I'm so, I'm like rage over here. I'm for having you. So devastating. You're making me read this book. Are you kidding me? I'm not kidding at all. This is the biggest shock

Amanda:

actually. I thought I would at least at minimum. Nope. Get a soft lit it. Are you kidding me?

Kelsey:

No.

Amanda:

Wait. Audience kidding. Hold on. I need you. I'm kidding you at

Kelsey:

all. This is, I'm not kidding. Oh, this gonna be a good thousand percent. This

Amanda:

is gonna be serious. Such

Kelsey:

a good episode because I'm so upset now. I hated this book so much. Hated with so much rage. Oh God. Okay, wait. And Amanda, I'm so mad at you for making me read this book.

Amanda:

So you made me read Bride Divine Rivals. Twilight did not want to hear. Were they 20

Kelsey:

hours long? No. Of the books

Amanda:

that you've had me read have been

Kelsey:

Not those three. That you absolutely hated. Oh my God.

Amanda:

Okay.

Kelsey:

I want it gone from my brain. What? Like it was so bad.

Amanda:

It was so bad. Alright, I have so many questions, but I'm gonna take a deep breath. We're just gonna take a deep breath, breathe in and breathe out. And before we go at it,'cause we are gonna go at it.

Kelsey:

Kelsey, why don't you very

Amanda:

like

Kelsey:

returning it because I'm like, so ti like, don't even want it in my get it off your device. Libby shelf.

Amanda:

Oh. I'm shook. I'm like legit. My heart is racing because I'm like so angry. I'm so mad. I cannot believe this. This is not at all what I expected. Like this is the biggest out of all the episodes we've done, this is the biggest shock for me. Surprise. Yes. I, I'm speechless. Okay.

Kelsey:

I, for a while I was gonna give it a soft, quit it, but it just kept going. Going and going. Yeah. Because, and I was like, I fucking hate those books so much. Oh my God.

Amanda:

Okay. All right. All right. We'll just pause right there. Let's what's the summary for this book?'cause it is, it's 560

Kelsey:

pages. Oh my God. Yes. You're not gonna get a very good summary of the beginning because, okay. I started the summary later and I'm gonna try to start summaries now while I'm reading, so that I just Okay. Because so much happened in this book. A lot happens in this book. Yeah. And I So much, I'm skimming a lot. That's fine.'Cause you have to Yeah. But I'm gonna summarize off the cuff, the beginning. Okay. So the story starts when Demon is around 10 years old and his mom is an addict. You find out his mom's an addict, has been to rehab before and is still an addict. And I believe she gets shipped off again. And then ends up in some foster care situations. And the first one being this guy who owns a tobacco farm. And keep in mind like demon's, like really young, he's 10. And he ends up working on this tobacco farm with this guy. And that's how he makes his way with this family, this foster care family. And then he ends up hearing on his birthday that his mother actually died. Mm-hmm. And I'm skipping a lot, my gosh. Mm-hmm. So much. That's okay.'cause his mom had found out she was pregnant. And then when she died she was like pregnant with the baby. But she had OD'ed and that's why she died. Okay. And then he ends up getting placed again. And honestly, I can't remember if it was, I can't remember the timeline exactly, but you'll get the gist of it. He gets placed with his family at the Mac Cobbs. And the Mac Cobbs have two children and four children? No, at the beginning they have two children. Oh, okay. Yes. Later on they have two more children. They have like twins or something, right? Yeah. And that's later on. But the Mac Cobbs at the beginning have two children and, he does not get treated very well at the Mac Cobbs. He ends up living in like a doghouse and is under fed. And I know he's in like fifth grade There's this whole scene of the Mac Cobbs have these snacks above the fridge and he can't reach them and isn't supposed to take them. Only their two children get the snacks and then they find out he's been taking some snacks because he's starving. And the mother ends up hiding the snacks even further, like in the kids' bedrooms and, I don't remember exactly what happens after that with the Mac Cobbs, but then not much later, this is where I started the summary.

Amanda:

Okay.

Kelsey:

He ends up leaving the town because he knows he has a grandmother nearish by. Mm-hmm. And he travels to his grandma. And she is, fairly nice to him. She feeds him well. He's there for a little while. And then she like, it's something weird. She like raises these girls? Mm-hmm. To be like marriage material essentially. And she's like, I don't raise boys. So she wasn't gonna raise him. She wasn't gonna keep him in her house. So she finds someone that can take him in and it's this guy named Coach. He ends up with this guy named coach and a daughter named Angus. And they treat him well and they feed him, which is like a big change for him because of everything that he's dealt with to this point. And then he starts playing football while living with them. And that's a really big deal because he becomes like, really he gets really good. And during his time with Coach and Angus he ends up falling in love with a girl named Dori. I don't know how to spell it because I was just listening to it on audio. Mm-hmm. But mm-hmm. I was like, really? Dori? Yeah. It's DORI. Mm-hmm. RI. Okay. Because yeah, it's is it really Dory Finding Nemo? Yeah. And then he becomes like this football star, like I mentioned, but he gets injured. Mm-hmm. I think it's like his second year in. Mm-hmm. And it's like a really bad knee injury. Mm-hmm. And from the doctors, he's prescribed opioids and that begins his like, issues with drugs.

Amanda:

Mm-hmm.

Kelsey:

And Dorian and him end up doing heroin together. And because she's already into drugs and her dad vest like it's. I'm just like going,'cause so much happens in this book, but vest is Dory's dad. He is very ill. And this is how Dory was getting a hold of a lot of the drugs she was using. Mm-hmm. But he dies and so that cuts off like a lot of their supply for drugs. Mm-hmm. And eventually he drops out of high school. I think he's 16 at this point, and moves in with his girlfriend. Dory. Dory Dory's drug use gets worse and worse after her dad dies and Demon wants to stop his drug use. But he doesn't know how and they find out that Dory is pregnant. And then this other character, he knows June, which is like. What was, what did they describe her as? Like her, his mother's like sister, but it's not, they were just close. Do you remember?

Amanda:

Aunt June, I think is related to, it's, so one of the things that you miss at the beginning of the story, the first family who lives with is the PTs and it's Mrs. Pega's daughter.

Kelsey:

Okay.

Amanda:

Yeah.

Kelsey:

And so June is, yeah. Okay. So he has like a longstanding relationship with June as like a mother type figure. Mm-hmm. But and June's daughter, Emmy mm-hmm. He knew growing up. Mm-hmm. And it was like the first girl he fell in love with. He professed that he was going to marry her or be with her when they grew up when they were younger, or Emmy did one of them.

Amanda:

Mm-hmm.

Kelsey:

And so they have a longstanding relationship, but, at this point, Emmy is in a really bad situation because she's also into drugs. Mm-hmm. And went down that path with this guy called Fast Forward. Mm-hmm.

Amanda:

And

Kelsey:

then June finds out like her daughter is in this bad situation. And she's, I believe in Knoxville. And so they leave to go get her. And they found Emmy. They find Emmy. And yeah, she was just in really bad shape really thin had only been like using drugs and she was being even raped to get access to drugs and when Demon returns to Dory, I don't even remember the town name like they were in she was bleeding a lot and had lost the baby. And I feel like at this point, demon's, feeling really help. I mean, He feels helpless like the whole book. Mm-hmm. But this is a point of extreme helplessness because he felt like maybe this was a turning point for Dory and wanting to keep the baby and do right by, the baby. But alas, that is not what happens. After Emmy comes back, June sends Emmy to an intense rehab facility and one day soon after Dory ends up dying from an overdose.

Amanda:

Mm-hmm.

Kelsey:

And after the funeral, demon needs to find a place to live and he ends up with Maggot and his family. And so Maggot is also a character from the very beginning that he's known. Basically his whole life. And is a queer character, remind me they're not transgender, right?

Amanda:

I don't believe so. Again, it's been a while since I've read it. Yeah. But definitely a queer character for sure. I think, he definitely like wears makeup Yeah. At different points throughout the book. It's know that he or something. Yeah, yeah, Yeah.

Kelsey:

But can you remind me who Mag's family is?'cause it's not in June, so it's the p

Amanda:

The pegs, the PEs. Yeah. Those are, yeah, those are his grandparents.

Kelsey:

And yeah, so June is, no, Emmy is away. He ends up with maggot. And. Shortly after that, maggot, hammer and Demon try to approach Fast Forward because he's returned to town ever since Emmy went off to that intense rehab facility. And they want to, confront him about what happened with Emmy. And so Hammer, they're at this what is it called? Devil's Bowl or something? Devil's Bathtub. Thank you. It's like a, yeah, it's like a big waterfall. Mm-hmm. And like people jump into it and like swim and whatnot and hammer and fast forward, end up dead everybody's high or like on something. Mm-hmm. So it makes sense. Mm-hmm. And in this maggot gets tried. For giving drugs to hammer prior to the accident. Mm-hmm. So I guess you can be like, held accountable for mm-hmm. Deaths when you've supplied drugs. And then June expresses the the desire to help demon. Mm-hmm. And wants to get him to his own rehab facility. Mm-hmm. It's a much shorter rehab duration. It's like a few weeks to get him off the drugs, but then he's able to live in what is it called? Like a halfway house? A halfway house,

Amanda:

yeah.

Kelsey:

So he goes to rehab, creates a new life away from the place he grew up. So he's at least a few hours, away. He can't just pop over to the town. Mm-hmm. He's trying to build his own life. He's getting clean. He starts like drawing comics and has a stable job. And for some, again, background demon's always been good at drawing or he's always been interested in drawing and so that's why he steps into that. And Angus and him stayed in contact throughout like his time away. And Angus is in like college now a few hours away as well. And then Annie, God, do you know Annie? Yeah. An art teacher is connection. Oh my gosh. That's his high school

Amanda:

art teacher.

Kelsey:

Annie reaches out and she's pregnant, like near the very end of her pregnancy and wants demon to come visit. He does, he goes and visits. Not sure like he's feeling ready to do it's been over a year since he's been back. He sees a lot of folks, like he grew up with, people are working to be clean and get off drugs and also like to get drugs off the streets of their town. Mm-hmm. And coach was also recently honored by the town for his work as a coach at the school. And then in the end, him and Angus meet up and it's like Christmas time I think. And Angus wants to gift demon, one of his dreams that he's had his whole life, which is go to the ocean. Mm-hmm. And so they go to the ocean together and. That's the end of the book.

Amanda:

Yeah. I mean it. Great job. It is a very long book. It is just one of those books that is a series of many unfortunate incidents for demon and Kelsey hit all of them. The one thing that you did skip over, which makes sense'cause it's back at the beginning, so you know the book opens and we know that as Kelsey pointed out. Demon's mother is an addict, something she's struggled with for a long time. And so he briefly lives with the PEs and has a really good time with them. They're very caring, very welcoming. Mm-hmm. That's when he makes his first friend, which is maggot, who Kelsey mentioned, but the catalyst for him getting sent off to live at that tobacco farm, which is where you started The story is that his mom ends up meeting this man called Stoner. Mm-hmm. Who is not a nice man. She ends up marrying him and he is just a tyrant. He's just awful abusive, horrible, really? To both of them. Yeah. And what happens is because of all that pressure, like his mom was doing okay, she kind of slips back into her addiction even more. She does wind up pregnant, as you mentioned, and demon wants to go back and live with the pt, but Stoner basically lied and said that there was like. Sexual abuse happening, et cetera. And so they're like, mm-hmm. You can't go back to that family. And that's how he ends up at that tobacco farm. And then while he's there, that is when he first meets Fast forward and kind of Oh, okay. And meets like this band of boys who are in and out of his life throughout the story, but especially fast forward. So just wanted to add like that in as well. Mm-hmm. And that his grandmother, Betsy, she, yeah, she basically runs her own foster, like unofficial foster home as Kelsey was mentioning. But it is just for girls. She does not like boys. And so Coach Winfield. Who again? Kelsey mentioned the football coach, who he goes to live with. Mm-hmm. He is the husband of one of her previous foster daughters. She's passed away. So she died. Yeah. Okay. And so she was like, I know of this man that you can go to live with. He's well off, like the coach went filled, very wealthy. And that happened. I just wanted to fill in a couple of those gaps. But yeah, other than that, that's basically it. That's basically, the Mac Cobbs have to leave town. The family that had the four kids that wouldn't feed him because their car gets repossessed and they're just in financial, they're poor. Yeah. Disarray. They forced DEIT to get a job collecting or sorting trash to help contribute to the family. But demon's been pocketing some of that money for himself and had saved up a fair amount. And when they leave town, he runs away. He gets his money stolen by a sex worker at like a gas station one night, and it's like a journey. It's a whole thing. Yeah. But yeah, that's essentially it. And if any of you who are listening have read David Copperfield, you'll know one, it's a really long book. It's like 800 pages and two, just like this book, David Copperfield's life is just one long misery. And so she does stay very true to that in this retelling of that story. So I'm almost like, I'm almost afraid to ask, because clearly you have very strong negative feelings about this book, but Kelsey so yeah, we're gonna start with the positives. I tried to come up with something, give us a least smile, but it's something, one positive from this horrible nightmare of a book apparently, that you had to suffer through. I'm on pins and needles.

Kelsey:

Yeah. I guess I, I don't even know how to it. Oh God. But like it. The fact that he wanted to go to the ocean. Like what? I'm like, okay, great. Like he not, that's it. That's the only good thing you can say about this book. Are you

Amanda:

kidding?

Kelsey:

Yeah. Like I, there's really not a lot. There's so much. Oh my God. And so there's that. I guess it's cool that he was an artist. Okay. And eventually developed those skills. Yeah. But that's literally it. Those are the two things that I come up with.

Amanda:

Okay. I also,

Kelsey:

Jose go ahead. Go ahead. I listened to the audio book and the audio book is complete trash. And is it just a bad narrator? I hated it so much.

Amanda:

Okay. It was really

Kelsey:

bad.

Amanda:

I wonder. Okay. Because that does have a huge impact. It does. On your experience of a book. And I've realized that now that I've been doing audiobook more, I'm like, oh yeah, I had read this book. I probably wouldn't have liked it, but I really liked it because of the way that it was read or vice versa. Yeah. This is like actually would've been an amazing book to read, but this narrator is like just killing the vibe for me. Mm-hmm. So I do wonder if you would've had a better experience if you had read it instead of listening to it but I appreciate that you were able to scrape the bottom of the barrel and come up with something, I guess because you, go ahead. Go ahead. I can see you.

Kelsey:

I'm just so curious, like why you like this book. Oh, okay. Yeah. Like I'm yeah. I genuinely, I don't like it. I love this book. I genuinely want to know how people could have any interest in this book.

Amanda:

Okay. Before we get to that, I will comment very quickly since you brought it up on him being an artist. Yeah. Because, and it also actually ties into something that I did like about the book. So he is good at art. It's something he finds during high school and has this really great relationship with Miss Annie as we mentioned. And so over the course of the book, he, for fun, he anonymous anonymously publishes this comic strip in the local paper it's about this fictional superhero called redneck. And so it's he's here to save the people of Appalachia from all the different societal problems that they are facing. And it's actually something I really liked. I think obviously I have a personal connection to this part of the country and my dad was sent to this part of the country with the National Health Corps to be a doctor there. Mm-hmm. And

Kelsey:

did you all live there for a bit?

Amanda:

Yeah, we lived there for, God, five or six years. And so it was like West Virginia. We were right on the border of West Virginia. And yeah, and so I think that comic strip. And there's different moments throughout the book where demon and others are talking about the history of this region and how overlooked it is, how misconstrued it is, all of the horrible stereotypes that people have about it, the struggles that they faced, et cetera. And I just think it's such an overlooked issue and overlooked population. And so from a personal, perspective, I liked that there was a book, talking about this part of the country in a way that felt real and gritty and authentic and honest and did justice to the people who live there. And that is directly tied into the comic strip because that's part of what that comic strip is trying to do. And also restore dignity to the people who live there. So I don't know. That was one. Do you feel like this book restored for restored

Kelsey:

dignity to the population?

Amanda (2):

Yeah, I do actually. I do not because, and again, as someone who has lived there and went to school there and had family friends there and my, my babies or whatever, it's I think it's very easy to paint in broad strokes and it's like very black and white. And I think this book did a good job of diving into the nuance of the history behind this region and why things are the way they are now. And again, like the stereotypes that the media feeds into social media, books, et cetera, that can, I don't know, really diminish or poorly represent life there and. Opioid use is a really big crisis, especially now in that region. It's just devastated it in so ways and a lot of other parts of the country. Yeah.

Amanda:

Um,

Amanda (2):

Like that. She didn't shy away from that either, so it wasn't like she was like, oh, everything's sunshine and roses or everything is horrible. It was like both of those things can exist. And I think that's life.

Kelsey:

What was positive about their lives.

Amanda:

I think that in spite of all of the misery that demon goes through Uhhuh, there are all of these relationships with people throughout the book that are really positive and restorative. Like whether it's the Pegas, whether it's Miss Annie or his other teacher who's married to Ms. Annie, I can't remember his name. Or his experience with Angus and Coach Winfield and with Aunt June, like there's so many people throughout his life that do come along, Betsy, right? For all of her crankiness and whatever, like they're there for him. And ultimately it does have a happy ending, right? He does come through to the other side. Of addiction and is sober and is getting his life together. And most of them are right. Emmy is also in rehab and like finding her passionate dance and like maggots out of juvie and sober and so is his mom, who is,'cause his mom was in prison for killing his dad or something, yeah. So there are actually, oh my god, I

Kelsey:

completely forgot about that.

Amanda:

So there storyline. Yeah. So there's a lot of happy endings for people too at the end if that's what you're looking for. If you need that like, oh my gosh, everything worked out like. They're hard. Hard earned. Hard. Hard fought. Hard won. Hard won. They're hard won, happy endings. But they're there. And for me, those mean so much more than like, oh, everything was like Sunshine and Roses, the whole book, and it's ending with sunshine and roses.

Kelsey:

But anyhow, I can tell, I honestly thought he was just gonna die. I was like, can he just die already? I am so done with this book. Whatever's gonna happen. So

Amanda:

tell us why you hated it so much. Is it just'cause it was just like so much bad stuff happened or it was a bad narrator? No, it just

Kelsey:

I think I think that was part of it, the bad narration. And honestly, I didn't like the writing. It was just very, like this happened and this happened and this happened. It wasn't like, I don't know, it was all in your face the whole time, Uhhuh. And I got so tired of the constant, like I knew nothing good was gonna happen, which is fine in a book, but like it just. The, it was the narration and also, I did not feel like Demon was a relatable character, or like,

Amanda:

oh, I love demon.

Kelsey:

I love being in his head so much. I absolutely hated it. I loved it. And even from a young child, like it felt like the writing did not evolve with his age. It was like the same writing the whole time. And it was the same like maturity. So I, that's how I felt. And I was like

Amanda:

but it is him as an adult writing about his life. So that kind of makes sense. It's adult demon, telling his life story. Is

Kelsey:

that really, it really reads like it's him in the moment. We get no insight into that. He's writing this book.

Amanda:

I am pretty sure that's the frame for it. Is that like he Yeah, no, it is because throughout the book, like there's those moments of him Refle. I don't have the text in front of me, unfortunately, but it is meant to be him adult demon. Talking about his life and his coming of age story and his, his journey to adulthood. It feels like a

Kelsey:

10-year-old the whole time. It doesn't feel like it matures. That's why I'm saying Oh,

Amanda:

interesting.

Kelsey:

To me, it did not feel like it matured at all. And I didn't feel like there was a good basis, for his decisions other than his trauma. Like you hear about his trauma, so obviously he's gonna make these decisions. Mm-hmm. There wasn't like a, I didn't feel like I was in his head really, like an understanding, like why he was making these decisions. He's just like, I love Dory. Oh really? I love Dory. And I'm obsessed with Dorry and yeah, okay. Why? It didn't make sense to me,

Amanda:

but I think, but I oh, this is so crazy. So first off, I freaking love demon's voice. It was one of the things, it was one of the reasons why and it makes sense that. If you didn't like his voice, it makes sense why you would hate this book because you're in his head the entire time. And if that's not your vibe, your style of writing, whatever, then yeah, you would hate this book. I freaking loved him. I thought he was just like, funny and blunt and was able to, I don't know, assess what was going on in his life with this frankness that I found refreshing. There's just no pretense with demon. And I liked that. I understand if you, if that's not your thing, like that's, that makes so much sense. But I also

Kelsey:

think like she made him sound stupid. Oh, I don't think so. I felt like that the whole time he, he's a dumb character. Wait, what?

Amanda:

But here's the thing though. Like you said, the majority of the book, he's in his pre-teens and his teenage years for the majority of the book. Mm-hmm. And so for me, the way that he was understanding things, responding to things, seemed very on track for an adolescent. Even more so an adolescent who had a super traumatic upbringing and mm-hmm. Ultimately was struggling with a drug addiction. You're not making the best choices. You're not thinking clearly, you're just looking for the next thing that's gonna make you feel good. You're just trying to survive, like demon spend basically from the age of 10 up until, I don't know, 18, whatever, just surviving. Totally. Like, where's my next meal? Totally gonna come from. Like, where am I gonna lay my head tonight? And so of course you're not making the best decisions in that moment'cause you're just like moment to moment trying to get by. So for me that wasn't like.

Kelsey:

Talking about the decisions, but like his thoughts sometimes, like he just, she just made him sound stupid. I don't have a good example'cause I don't have the book. Yeah. I'm curious but that's what it sounded like to me. And maybe you should listen to some of the audio books. I don't want to, now it sounds awful, the voice and maybe that's what, maybe that's what contributed to it. Yeah. And some of the one star reviews, like they did listen to the audio book and also felt like it was trash. So I don't know if that's like really what it was ultimately. Yeah. But I, all of those things,

Amanda:

I mean it's fair. Like I said a bad audio book can totally rock a good book and then breaks my heart. I think too, one of the things that made me like this book more, it was that connection to David Copperfield. I like literature, I love reading all this stuff, obviously. And so there was like this additional layer of interest to see how she was going to incorporate certain characters, certain moments in the book and revamp them right. Or put her own twist on them. And I was like, oh, that's how she decided to portray this character. Oh, that's how she decided to rewrite this scene. And so the nerdy literature literary part of me was like, oh, this is so cool. And I even,'cause I'd read the book when I was a kid, right? So I was even going online to refresh my memory for like characters and things that happened in the original. Mm-hmm. So that added to and enriched my reading experience. But again if you hadn't read the other book, that would be just one less thing, to be like, oh, this is a cool little connection. Yes.

Kelsey:

And I heard people complaining about that too, where it was like this is not a retelling, this is a, it's not word for word, like kind of situation where it was like the same thing. Yeah. And that names were just changed.

Amanda:

It's, no,

Kelsey:

that's what people were saying. They're like a lot, actually. A lot of names. Other people who have read. Yeah. David Copperfield.'cause I have not read David Copperfield.

Amanda:

Yeah. I would disagree with that. I have an interest, I think at this point the, if you zoomed out really far Yes. Mm-hmm. They're parallel stories. Mm-hmm. But the details are like the setting and the actual events, like the actual kind of traumas that are happening are different. Mm-hmm. And. I thought she did a good job of balancing, like staying true to the original while also adding her own spin.'cause sometimes it can be too much either way. It's like, okay, this is a word for word retelling, or there's barely anything, resembling the original and this thing that you created. And I don't know, I thought she found a good way of managing both while also telling a different story. Mm-hmm. And introducing people again to Appalachia and life there. Again, an area of the country that often just gets overlooked. And she even, which I did not know this was a thing, she even worked in, information about the mulans who are a group of people that most people, myself included, have never heard of in the United States. And dunno anything about what characters are those in the

Kelsey:

books?

Amanda:

What was that in the book? What characters are they? Demon copperhead is a mulian. Oh, and it's this group of people in Appalachia who are tri-racial. So it's a mix of European black and Native American. And they had their own community right in like the mountains there and were often shunned because, they looked different and mm-hmm. Didn't fit into anyone's boxes of, whatever race you should belong to. And so I liked that, technically, like he also is a character of color as well and inhabits this weird in-between space. So I also really liked that I did not that from the book at all. Yeah. I really wish you had read it.'cause it's very clear and like it comes up at several points. Adds this adds to his like otherness.

Kelsey:

I would rather have read a nonfiction book about EIA rather than this book. I just,

Amanda:

that is insane to me. Do you feel, okay?

Kelsey:

Do

Amanda:

you

Kelsey:

feel

Amanda:

like you learned anything from this? No, I didn't. Okay. I just

Kelsey:

learned about God. I just read about a bunch of junkies. And that's it. That's serious. Okay. That's serious. That is literally what the book is about. No, it's not. If that is the else you've, from this book, this is

Amanda:

just that's such a a and I felt like it was like, it's such a superficial read because there's so much more to these. I look, one of the things I loved about this book is in my opinion, not all of'em.'cause there's a lot of characters, but many of the characters are so fully fleshed out and like well developed. And I don't think they're just like, again, these two dimensional, you're just a junkie, full stop. There's so much more to it in that. And you learn about how folks fell into these addictions and what led to them. Mm-hmm. And the ways in which they've tried to pull themselves out of them and why opioid addiction is such a big issue, especially in this part of the country. Like mm-hmm.

Kelsey:

I don't

Amanda:

think it's just this like, oh my gosh, everyone's addicted. The the end. Like I feel like that is a disservice to the novel. To sum it up. So look at your face.

Kelsey:

I'm just like, I will get more out of a Nonfic book. Oh my God, I cannot believe this. And I'd be happy to read about this area, but I don't think I learned a lot from this book about the area. I just don't, I,

Amanda:

it's certainly not a textbook, right? Obviously you can get more details elsewhere, but I feel like for a fictional novel, but like she does spend a good amount of. The book like a fair amount, not a lot, but a fair amount of the book. Giving you a backstory about the people who first came to this area and the challenges they face and all of these things that most people have no idea about. I did not, that it's not taught about in schools. Did you skip those chapters? I don't understand. Like I wish I, because even as someone who grew up there, at least spent, part of my childhood, they're like, we didn't learn about this history, in our textbooks, which is crazy. That's insane. Yeah. And it's also a very insular community. Like people who are from there often stay there and people who leave don't really wanna acknowledge that's where they came from.'cause there's like this sense of shame from coming from. Appalachia depending on, where else you go from there. And I don't know. I, again, I guess'cause I read it,'cause I did spend time growing up there and have this connection to it. And because I really, I, yeah, I enjoyed the connections with the original. I don't know, I just, and I freaking love demon. I just love his voice. Yeah. Uhuh. Okay. This is wholly disappointing and I never wanna do this again, and I'm never having you read another book. Oh, okay. Thank God.

Kelsey:

Can I just choose the books that I read now? So stressed. I cannot, this is like you, because usually when

Amanda:

I obviously recommend a book, I'm like, I have a general idea. Yeah. It's never like a huge shock to me one way or the other. This one I did think I was gonna get a soft litter from you and I'm so distressed, Amanda. She's not good. I did it. I know

Kelsey:

I'm the minority. I'm in more of the minority.

Amanda:

Yeah.

Kelsey:

But there were like 5,000. One star reviews on Good Reads. And it's a small percentage of the overall very small, but still 5,000 other people agree with this

Amanda:

opinion. Wait now. Okay. Like now I wanna see how, because again, won a ton of awards. It's also was nominated for the Good Reads, like one of the Good reads reader's, fiction, whatever, nominations. Mm-hmm. So it a very understand, it's a very well loved book. It's because all of us just read it and didn't listen. I didn't listen to it. I don't know I wonder who the the narrator is.

Kelsey:

It's a narrator I've never heard before. But yeah, feel free to look it up. They use like a I'm also weird Southern accent.

Amanda:

Oh, okay. The whole time. Just to clarify for folks who are listening I would just like to let you know that 60% of readers gave this five stars. It's 470,000 people and 28% another 218,000 gave it four stars. So tell it's not 5,000. It's 4,800. It's

Kelsey:

4,836. Yeah. It's basically 5,000.

Amanda:

So very small minority. I'll be adding to that

Kelsey:

one.

Amanda:

I guess this would be a good time to talk about these reviews then because I am curious to see like what other things that other one star folks pointed

Kelsey:

out and we can touch on those. I, I wanna say,'cause one of my reviews does get into this, I don't even think it's like super problematic. Like the book, I just was so bored and ugh. If I could have DN at this book, I would have, oh gosh. I would have. All

Amanda:

right.

Kelsey:

And the ending was not worth it. It was just like, they go to the beach. I'm like, okay, great. I dunno, it's like symbolic. It's yes, of course they're cut. But I just, and like the whole Angus thing where he thought he was a boy. Oh, she was a boy. Yeah, she was, yeah. And then she went along with it and then was like, yeah, maybe we'll just be Brother Buds. Like what Uhhuh? I just, what is the point of that? What was the point of that?

Amanda:

I don't know. She's just a quirky adolescent who's figuring out who she is and what she wants and has no mother and a dad who's like super, who football. I don't know. Yes. Like I, I will say as someone who grew up in a house with seven men, right? Mm-hmm. I was definitely a tomboy.'cause I felt it was easier to just blend in and be one of the bros versus like lead into

Kelsey:

I'm not saying there's anything wrong with that. Yeah. What I'm saying is she was just like,

Amanda:

so then why were, well you just said like, why is she doing that? I'm like, that's why.

Kelsey:

She's but I dunno. I'm giving you reasons. So why? That was like, at the very end she was like, oh yeah. And just, I loved Angus. Angus was great.

Amanda:

There's just so many, oh, there's just so many. It's like the only stable characters,

Kelsey:

good characters book. The entire book was Angus because coach was June. Coach was a fraud. June was great. June was. Good.

Amanda:

Mrs. Pega was great, like the grandmother, she was like a solid character. They also wouldn't

Kelsey:

bring him in when they Yes. Yeah. Could have. Yeah. And the whole story obviously would've been different. But

Amanda:

And again, I will say because, and this goes back to David Copperfield, like she was trying to stay true to the original, to a certain degree. And so there, there are choices that are made in the original book that she stuck with. And so it's like she chose not to change it.'cause that's what happens. What is David Copperfield

Kelsey:

about?

Amanda:

I mean, This like, it's a boy. It's, yeah, it's a, so it's a boy, David Copperfield who goes again through very similar trials and tribulations, like everyone he knows, dies or leaves him. And he's basically an orphan. Like he has a really shitty life.

Kelsey:

Yeah. But that's like more historical. When is that? It, Charles Dickens wrote

Amanda:

it. So it's like what, back in the 18 hundreds.

Kelsey:

Okay.

Amanda:

Yeah. In England. So it takes place across the pond, but yeah. Yeah. I don't wanna talk about this anymore because this is so upsetting. So let's just get to these reviews and you can just break my heart some more with more people telling me why this book sucks and it's gonna be fine. And Kelsey has one star reviews from Good Reads. I have five star. So let's just rip the bandaid off and, and suppose Amanda, like I

Kelsey:

was owed a hateful book or like you, because honestly,

Amanda:

aside from, I'm trying to think of a book that you truly do this, none of this got true, Horace. Yeah, none of this is true. And Horace. I think that's it.'cause even the inmate you didn't like it, but you weren't like, oh my gosh, this is the worst thing ever. I think it was a soft quit. Yeah. Okay.

Kelsey:

And I had, but yeah, those two I like absolutely hated. You did.

Amanda:

It's more fun when you get really heated about them. I'll say.

Kelsey:

It was time. It was time. Yeah, it was time.

Amanda:

A book.

Kelsey:

I just didn't want it to be this one. God. Okay. Okay. It was so funny, I was looking through the the ratings or the reviews and one of them was pretty funny but it was by a Karen and I was like, I can't do this. I can't.

Amanda:

Now there's one and Karen writing a one star review.

Kelsey:

Hmm. Happening. Yeah. I, sorry. Report it to

Amanda:

all the

Kelsey:

lovely Karens out there. Okay. This is from Rachel. I am gonna bow out of this one. The fetishization of Appalachia and the unrelenting white savior complex of Barbara Kingsolver is exhausting. I was hoping the white savior ness would've been toned down since the poison Bible, but nope. Just a different population to exploit. I don't need a novel to make me empathize with people, and I certainly don't need Barbara fucking kingsolver to give voice and visibility to a place. And its people where beauty and desperation lift side by side. There are ways to talk about the topics in this book with tact, but that does not happen here. You can talk about substance abuse, poverty, domestic violence, assault, the foster care system, and ineffective social services without turning an already misrepresented population into sideshow freaks. Save your energy and read something that isn't trauma porn for all the nice white, solidly middle class people of the world to get off to.

Amanda:

Oh man I can. Here's the thing. I feel like I'm, I am good at seeing things from other people's perspectives, and I can understand someone coming away with that read of this book, and I would also push back against it, especially because I feel like. She tries very hard throughout the book, especially if you're reading closely to dismantle those narratives and makes very explicit choices to do'cause she's not an idiot. She knows if she's gonna write this book, like those are the kinds of potential comments she might get. Mm-hmm. Especially because of the level of yeah drug addiction, domestic violence, like all of this stuff. It's like, okay. It's, It's kind of like, you know, in any other minority group, like if we're reading about black people and it's okay, yes, you're always showing us as like criminals and it's the ghetto and it's drug use and whatever. I get that. And also, I don't think the book is just that one thing because, I feel like she gives the characters a lot more range in depth and opportunities to, I don't know, be fully fleshed, three-dimensional characters and to acknowledge the challenges that they're facing as a community.'cause it would be like, I don't know. Yeah, I dunno. Okay. There's so much I can say, but I'm gonna move on to my first five star and get off my little soapbox. Okay? Okay. This is from Angela m. This novel is described as a modern day version of David Copperfield, which I've never read. I'm generally not a fan of rewrites of classics, so if I had read it, I may not have picked this one up, even though Barbara Kingsolver is such an amazing writer whose books I have loved over the years. That is a really long sentence. I'm grateful to have read this novel because I would've missed out on a brilliant story, brutal but brilliant, and a character who was in my heart from the first to the last page. An addicted teenage mother, an abusive stepfather, a corrupt foster care system. Wreaking of abuse is what demon copperhead endures. At a young age of 10 years old, working on a tobacco farm, then with a family who has some sleeping in a dog room hungry, taking leftovers from school lunch trays, he endures somehow without speaking up to his caseworker for fear of what his next foster situation would be. His next one turns out to be life altering in more ways than one. This is an in your face. In your gut punch, no holds barred portrayal, all of that, and a stabbing expose of the opioid epidemic in Appalachia. It's depressing and heartbreaking to read with little respite. I was drained at times, as with other books by Kingsolver. There is a social message here, but it's not just told with statistics of addictions deaths, but through the moving story of a character as a little boy and then as a young man with all of the horrors he faced in between feeling as real as it gets. And I agree. I dunno, I talk about this with my students in my rhetoric class when they're doing their persuasive speeches and incorporating, facts about whatever social issue they've decided to talk about. Mm-hmm. And I always tell them like, yes, facts are great statistics, evidence, data, yes. But you have to put a face on the issue. We are human beings and we connect and understand other human beings and we understand others through story. That's how we have empathy. And I feel like that's what this book did.'cause like you said, you could have read a nonfiction novel about the opioid epidemic in Appalachia and you would've come away, I think with a very different experience than having lived it. Yeah. Alongside better

Kelsey:

experience. You know what I, you know, go, I Your next one star also I'm, I'm curious though, because the opioid pandemic right, is like epidemic. Yeah. Sorry. Mm-hmm. Is everywhere.

Amanda:

So I guess I'm like, why? There, but there, there are pockets of the country where it is worse and they have higher rates of use and overdoses. That's established,

Kelsey:

but also I, I don't understand why it starts the same way, right? Like it's doctors prescribing these pills. Mm-hmm. And then people get addicted to them. Mm-hmm. That is the story, right? Mm-hmm. That's, but that's not unique to Appalachia, right?

Amanda:

No, but I think that the impacts it's had on an already impoverished community that was already struggling to begin with. The impacts have been. Exa like the imp, what am I trying to say? It's exacerbated right? What was already happening in areas such as Appalachia. Does that make sense? So I agree. Yes. Opioid overdoses are happening around the country and we know how and why it started. Mm-hmm. But for an area that was already struggling, like I lived there in the nineties, right? Uhhuh, and that was before the opioid crisis really had taken off and it was already an area of, a lot of poverty, and struggling, education systems, et cetera. And so for a community that was already struggling to get by, to then get whammed with this opioid crisis on top of everything else mm-hmm. Was even more devastating than perhaps other places. In America. Yeah. I dunno.

Kelsey:

Yeah. Okay, next one. Star review from Nicole. I tried, I really wanted to like this book regardless. I couldn't, I was bored to tears listening to the audio book. The characters failed to grab my empathy and the book certainly failed in securing my interests. I truly don't understand the hype. I rarely rate books one star anymore, but I listen to every minute of this novel all while continuously hoping it was going to improve. It didn't. If you are having a difficult time reading this book and finding it tedious, it's not worth making it to the end. You can read the synopsis online and that'll do, because if it didn't hold your attention by 30%, nothing will change by the end of this book.

Amanda:

I would say if you're struggling to listen to this book, then shut off the audio book and go read the actual book.

Kelsey:

Maybe we still have, I need to No idea

Amanda:

if

Kelsey:

that's

Amanda:

why ended the book. I know, but I think maybe I will have to listen to a little bit of it just to see. Just to see. Yeah, because I also think, like you mentioned before that you didn't like. Barbara King Solver's writing, and I was like, oh.'cause I think she's actually a really great writer, and I wonder if that just didn't translate well because of Yeah, how the audio book was done. To be fair, there is a book that she wrote, prodigal Summer, that we read for a book club that I did not like. It wasn't that it was poorly wr, poorly written, it was just too slow for me and more nature fiction than I enjoy. But I think she's, I think she's a good writer. Anyhow, we're moving on to number two five star. This is from Maureen Demon. Copperhead entered the world in a single trailer born, to a single mother who hadn't no clue how to look after him, nor did she have the means. The Southern Appalachian Mountains of Virginia is where he took his first. Breath, a place of dire poverty. Though most local folk were in the same boat, so it was pretty normal. Demon's mom though, had additional problems, and that meant even less of the basic needs for the two of them. Thank God for good neighbors. I won't go into the synopsis as this is a lengthy and eventful novel. However, this is a tale of love and the need for love. It's about dreams and anger, hate and pain, and what really stands out is how the opioid crisis is responsible for many of those bad feelings and demonstrates how it wrecks the lives that might otherwise have climbed out of that daily grinding, poverty, perhaps realizing those long held dreams and ambitions. The journey for demon copperhead is long and eventful. Epic is the best way to describe it. The writing is so beautiful, exquisite, even, but it takes the reader to places so dark, depressing, and dangerous with its intimate detail that you wonder why you find such beauty in it. But it's there on every page, and every event, and every crisis. Harrowing, yet uplifting has to be one of the standout books of the year. It is stunning. Yes. Yes. Because I think even in the midst, like I was saying before of all of just like the horrible things happening, there is this sense of community and people looking out for each other and taking whatever small means they have and sharing them with others. Ugh, I don't know. And I saw the, he's so alone for

Kelsey:

so much of the book, like he's dealing with his shit on his phone for so much of the book, but

Amanda:

even like outside of him'cause there's other characters like in his world that he's interacting with that you, you see that happening. And, even the people who do ultimately open up their homes to them, there was Betsy or Coach Winfield or the Pegas, like they do try their best to look out for each other. I don't know.

Kelsey:

Anyhow, okay, I'm done. Next one. Just mostly thinking about like when he is robbed by

Amanda:

Oh, the sex worker.

Kelsey:

Yes. Yeah. And

Amanda:

yeah. Yeah. That was, that, that was devastating for me. I was like, you God, to be kidding me, I can't handle this book.

Kelsey:

Oh my God. Just give him a break. Give this poor boy a break. Okay. Okay, my next one from Lisa Lynch. The reason why I included this one was because of the first line. Okay. I had to shorten it a lot. Okay. Here we go. From Lisa, I swear to Sonny, Jesus. I thought I would like this book. What? It was sunny. Jesus. What the heck? I was planning on it. In fact, with a name like Demon Copperhead you'd think the guy would be at least interesting. At best, a hellish good time. And then I started reading and immediately hated it. By the way, I read all 600 ish pages of David Copperfield earlier this year in preparation for this book because I thought it would make for a more meaningful reading experience. If you are debating doing this, don't. The absolute disrespect paid to David's. Two love interests in this re-imagining is appalling. Everyone's name here is stupid, but the fact that King Solver decided to change Agnes to Angus is not okay. Also, Dora becomes Dory and she goes from being a person who struggles because of a disability to a person who struggles because she's addicted to drugs, which doesn't quite sit right with me. Also, if you know David's story, you know, demons, there might be a beat or two that doesn't quite line up, with the original. But these books have the same ebb and flow. It was not interesting or fun to read. I hated this book. I had to have a perspective of someone who read.

Amanda:

Yeah, no, that was smart. That was smart to include it. And it does follow the same beats of the novel, which again, I liked. But it had enough variation that it wasn't just rereading David Copperfield's.

Kelsey:

There's some debate about that.

Amanda:

Yeah. For one, these books are set like a hundred years apart, if not more, and in a different continent and like dealing with very different social issues like, I don't know. Anyhow, okay, moving on to my next one. This is a little bit shorter. This is from Canadian Gen. Who is this demon copperhead? Let me tell you. He's a wild redheaded, mulian whipper snapper of a hillbilly. A young boy with a mind so expansive. How he describes life is large orphan at 11 demons. Teenage years are fraught with sadness and hopelessness through foster homes running away. And at last, finding his grandmother, a life headed to go off the rails somehow maintained its balance until it didn't. As in life. As in life. There are tops and bottoms. I don't think that's what they meant to say. They're ups and downs. Oh,

Kelsey:

that sounds like a Calvinism,

Amanda:

a demon. The bottom, bottoms out with opiates, plundering his chances of making it out of poverty. Demon is a character evil will grow attached to and cheer for in his early ages, simply for his resilience. But life can be tough and heavy choices are made. Kingsolver, you haven't lost your touch. This one is epic. This character, this story, the writing, but whoa, it does get dark and heavy for a long part of this journey, and it makes one wonder of the helplessness and fear these addicts feel and face in reality. Five stars. Your second story to grace, my all time favorites list, standing next to the Poisonwood Bible.

Kelsey:

Okay. I also wanted to mention, oh boy, it's just that I was struggling getting through this book and I had six hours left yesterday and um, Rio and I were like doing errands and stuff. Mm-hmm. He had to listen to some of it. Okay. And he's like, what the fuck is this?

Amanda:

So it's just because of the narrator. Okay. Don't let this audio book sway you. God, I'm so depressed. I can't

Kelsey:

wait for you to listen to a bit of the audio book. I'm gonna have to at this point because have Spotify.

Amanda:

I do. Oh, wait, but are you But don't, I'm not the primary whatever

Kelsey:

account holder.

Amanda:

Yeah.

Kelsey:

I'll figure it out. Yeah. Anyway, this one is a longer one. Okay. Just so many good points. Oh God. Okay. Okay. So Amy Lorenzo. Sorry. I'm so set already. I'm so, so already haven't even started. I'm sorry to kill your joy. Um, It's too late for that. So in all caps, if you value your time, don't bother. God. Amy, I could not agree more. This book placed me in a two month reading slump. I'm sorry, but if you're going to take damn near 600 pages to talk your shit, at the very least, don't waste my time. It was reductive in a manner I've never experienced before. Story could have been told in 300 pages or less. This book is about demon, the son of a drug addict who grows up in the foster system where no one gives a damn about you or your wellbeing. No shocker there. Demon accepts his ex circumstances and fails to make a singular decision to help himself. This isn't a redemption story, it's a follow in the footsteps of your nept mother story. King solver delivers the quintessential added cliche on a bland platter. After 500 pages, it seems he has a singular redeeming quality. And on the last page, there appears to be a sliver of hope. Is that all? Yeah, that's all. Spoiler. Although this whole thing is a spoiler, our entire episode. Episode. But they wanted to say, spoiler, what? The actual f was the ending. I was at a loss of words when I found out that after all that shit, demon swoons over Angus and drives to the ocean. You mean to tell me I waited that long for such a terrible ending? Oh my God. He was like, at the end it all of a sudden he was just like, oh yeah, I'm into Angus. It wasn't like I, throughout the book, it just was like, oh yeah,

Amanda:

I feel like, no, I don't think it's outta the blue. Because you see the ways in which Angus, throughout the book is there for is what the unstable character. Yeah. Like I think, and I, so I don't think it's it's just like out of the blue, like I think it just took him a moment to realize. That everything she was doing for the him had been doing was a form of love and care, and that she was this stable, supportive force through his life. So I don't think it's like a Deo exm and like, where did this come from? But the her bit for him,

Kelsey:

yeah. Though, I don't know, but

Amanda:

like for this person who was like, oh, he's just like following in the inept footsteps of his mother. I'm like, do you not know how a addiction works? Like also the cycles of addiction. Like what the, okay. That's just, okay. You know what? I'm fine. Deep breaths. We're moving onto our final Five star and then we can never come back to this. And on a positive note, yes. We're gonna end a pause. Yes. Um, This is from Liz. I Who? Liz Love Barbara King's. Love Ver. Me too, Liz. So I picked this as our book club selection. Then I had the bright idea that since this was based on David Copperfield, I should try reading that first 800 pages, dry as Dirt, and I gave up at page 200 that had me worried until the first page of this book, OMG. The language, her way with words is beyond description. I wanted to highlight multiple phrases per page. I quickly realized I'd be highlighting the whole book. I found myself getting caught up time after time by some phrase or sentence. She just. She just tells it so you really understand something. This book sucked me in Demon's. Life was one long, sorrowful moan, but not just his. Almost everyone in this tale has had trouble. This is a deeply depressing book, but thank heavens it ends on a note of hope for those still standing at the end. I was impressed that King Kingsolver was able to take this retelling of David Copperfield and make it about the opioid crisis in Appalachia. It shows that not much has changed between Victorian times and now when it comes to the disadvantage being marginalized and ignored, it starts with an area with little on offer. Government programs stretch beyond its limits, and first one then another industry more interested in profits than people. The plot is a reminder that severe poverty isn't just limited to the inner cities. If anything, there's as much prejudice against the quote trailer trash I highly recommend this and it is definitely one of my favorite books of the year. I can't wait to discuss this at book club. That is another thing that we didn't talk about, which kind of ties into the social ills and the way that not only has this area of the country largely been ignored, but also the ways in which the government, our government, our federal programs, our like state programs has failed people in these areas. And it's one of the reasons why my dad got sent there. Like the National Health Corps sends doctors to areas of the country that are in need of physicians because people don't wanna move there. They don't have great, health services clinic, et cetera. Mm-hmm. And I don't know, I, yeah, I don't know. Anyhow I've said my piece, I will not get back up on my soapbox.

Kelsey:

I would, I just want to end this with, I have extreme empathy for the overall, like opioid issue and the whatever Kelsey damage that has, that it has caused like actual communities. Yeah. I have no empathy for any of these characters. I'm sorry, but

Amanda:

these are all characters that are like out actual, they're Amanda, they're fake. A lot of their experiences book that real are, are based on real people's experiences. Like you just pull this stuff out of thin air, like saying these are the ways in which addiction can destroy lives in communities. Just,

Kelsey:

I see them in two different buckets. I don't, and I hate this book, this literally fiction helps us

Amanda:

understand reality. That's

Kelsey:

why I, okay, this did not help me in that way.

Amanda:

La. Realistic. But I still care.

Kelsey:

I still care about like the issues. That's good, but not about these people in this book or Barbara who are dealing with the issues that you care about. I do not want to ever read another Barbara Kingsolver book. I'm sorry. You know

Amanda:

what? I'm not gonna have you,'cause if I had you read Poisoned Bible and you hated that too. I don't, we couldn't be friends, so it's fine. We're gonna save our friendship. Just leave her alone and we'll be fine. Anyhow, Kelsey, just tell people where they can find us online so we can get this over with.

Kelsey:

Oh gosh. So if you are having to blast in this episode, there's more out there and you should go check out our list of how many, oh my gosh. How many do you have? We probably have about 70 now. Episode 70 something out. So there are many other episodes each month. Amanda and I force each other to read a book that we may or may not like and sometimes this happens. Go find us over on Spotify and Apple. Those are our most popular platforms, but you can find us on any podcasting platform. Mm-hmm. And find us on Instagram at Live Vibes Only podcast, and TikTok and YouTube at Live Vibes only podcast. So we'd love to see you over there. And of course, whether or not you agree with Amanda or I or somewhere in the middle.

Amanda:

Mm-hmm.

Kelsey:

Always go rate and review our episodes. You can leave comments on Spotify or you can actually leave real reviews on Apple. Mm-hmm. Yes, please. And thank you.

Amanda:

And also, if you feel strongly about this book, either way, make sure to follow some socials because on Thursday we'll be asking you to chime in with your vote. We wanna hear about whether this was a lit or quit it. And because this was incredibly divisive, I really, I just need to know where my demon Copperhead fans are.'cause I need just, I need, she needs a boost. Boost of competence boost. I need to win.

Kelsey:

I need to win, guys, which I'm sure there's tons of you out there. There are, yes. And I just am not one of them. No. And

Amanda:

that's all for today guys. I'm gonna go cry in a corner. Thank you so much for joining us, and we'll see you next Monday. Bye

bye.