Grieving the Death of Your Partner

Welcome to the When Grief Comes Home podcast. We're glad you're here. This podcast supports parents who are grieving a spouse, partner, or child while helping their children who are living through the loss of a parent or sibling. With personal grief stories and professional guidance, we offer parents practical tips for supporting their child who is grieving while caring for their own grief. 

Losing your spouse or partner changes everything. In this episode, Brad, Colleen, and Erin illuminate the often-overlooked changes that come with such a profound loss. 

The loss of a spouse or partner reshapes all aspects of daily life. Today we discuss the disorienting experience of adjusting after someone who lived with you side by side is no longer there. We explain how guilt is a natural companion in the grieving process and how it affects both adults and children. We explore how to acclimate with new responsibilities and routines. We offer strategies for what can help with the physicality of grief and how these feelings impact your body.

We offer insights and resources on how to support your child after the death of their parent with ideas on how to explain death to your child. 

Please subscribe to the When Grief Comes Home podcast and leave us a review. The more stars, reviews, and downloads the show receives, the more parents and families in grief can find support.  

Order the book When Grief Comes Home https://a.co/d/ijaiP5L

For more information on Jessica’s House or for additional resources, please go to jessicashouse.org 

Transcript

Navigating Grief After Losing a Spouse

Gary Shriver 0:00

Hello and welcome to when Grief Comes Home, a podcast dedicated to parents living through loss while supporting their child. Let's meet the team.

Erin Nelson 0:11

I'm Erin Nelson, founding executive director at Jessica's House.

Colleen Montague 0:15

Hi, I'm Colleen Montague, program director for Jessica's House and a licensed marriage and family therapist.

Brad Quillen 0:21

Hi, I'm Brad Quillen and I'm the host of When Grief Comes Home.

Gary Shriver 0:25

Now through this podcast, they'll share grief resources and coping skills, heartfelt stories and insights to support parents as they raise children who are grieving. Together, you'll find strength as we learn to live with loss and find ways to heal.

Brad Quillen 0:47

Hello, hello, it's Brad from Jessica's House. Today, we're talking about the grief reactions that come after losing your spouse, the person you shared so much history with, made so many memories and had countless interaction that now only belong to you. You're not only grieving the loss of a partner, but you are grieving all you've lost, what you never had and what you had hoped for your future. Colleen, Erin, good to see you guys as we get started in this next episode of Losing your Spouse or Partner. Erin, I know we have spent a lot of time talking about your husband, Tyler, that died a number of years ago, and there's some things with a spouse or partner that you just know what they're thinking in the moment or the memories you share, the thoughts of growing old together and envisioning what the future and what forever looks like together and then that's interrupted, and so much changes when that death happens.

Erin Nelson 1:45

Yeah, when you come into that ceremony and that sacred union and kind of make that commitment and promise to each other, you say those words, you know, for better or for worse, in sickness and health, till death do us part, right? And then the death parts you. And what does that look like? It's not, it's never anything that you imagined could be possible in your lifetime.

Brad Quillen 2:05

Yeah you think it's way, way, way down the road.

Erin Nelson 2:07

Yes, yeah, you think it's way down the road and you have fears about it, of course, and worries. But when you get that phone call and so many of our listeners have faced a death of a spouse or a partner and they are taking care of their kids, who are grieving alongside their own grief, and we know that, even at Jessica's House, about 60% of the children who come to us have lost their parent, have lost their dad, and then a significant other amount have lost their mom, and so, as we serve these children and families, we know that this, all of these spouses and partners that are supporting each other, they're hurting.

Brad Quillen 3:01

Yeah, and there's some of those things that you don't realize until the days start to go on, and just little things that pop up, or the quirks that you miss about them, or even the annoying things right that you miss those even down the road.

Erin Nelson 3:16

You miss the annoying things and I know we've talked sometimes like there's things that you might miss and others that you don't.

Brad Quillen 3:22

Thankfully, that's not.

Erin Nelson 3:24

Yeah, exactly, exactly.

Brad Quillen 3:26

But even for your story. I know you talk about being in the grocery store and there this never even dawned on you until months down the road, but in the grocery store you had one of those grief moments.

Erin Nelson 3:36

Yeah, well, you know it was actually my very first time going grocery shopping after Tyler died and I thought it would just be this normal thing that I would just grab the shopping cart and just go through the double doors and make my way around. And I got to kind of the cookie and cracker aisle and realized that every time I went to the grocery store I got those silly little animal crackers that are frosted with the sprinkles.

Brad Quillen 4:05

The pink and white ones, yeah.

Erin Nelson 4:05

Yeah, and that was just his favorite, so we kept it, we always kept it. I always grabbed a bag and threw it in the cart right and I have, I pulled them off the shelf and then realized like nobody likes these but him and just thinking like how? Then I was like kind of paralyzed really to where, like do I don't buy him, like put him back. And then I all of a sudden was like oh my gosh, like what do I buy at the grocery store? Because I don't think I even realized that so much of the time I had him in my mind, whether that was the cookies or some other you know recipe I wanted to make, and so it really took me off guard that it was hard to even know what to put in my grocery cart. I was never expecting that.

Brad Quillen 4:56

Yeah, I think I got my stories mixed up because down the, down the road, a few months later there's a fire building reality in your life and after we share a little bit about that story, we want to talk about what it is, what grief is that torn apart idea that Colleen's going to share with us, but can you even just speak to down the road a couple months later is where I got mixed up about the fire building experience and again one of those things that you didn't realize was a part of your life that now you're having to do and a lot of people listening are in that place of man. I didn't realize they did this. I've got to learn to do this now and we're going to get into that more in the episode here in a few minutes.

Erin Nelson 5:36

Yeah, just the roles that we have. And that was a few months after he died when I took the kids to a friend's house and when we were there and the kids were riding horses and it was October and I realized that it was getting colder and he was always the one that built the fire and so I thought about, let's just go home and kind of get cozy. And then I remembered, oh my gosh, he was always the one that made that first fire of the season. And I think what we hear from our families that are affected by the death of their spouse or partner is that they didn't even realize that they had roles and they could be so simple, like chores or picking the kids up, um, dinners, you know the dishes, just everyday things like. And you know, we don't even realize. We kind of have these rhythms in life and when one person just drops out of your world and they're no longer there and you're left just doing it solo, whatever that might be taking the kids to school.

Erin Nelson 6:48

I remember one time I was invited to a friend's house and I got a babysitter and it was after Tyler had died and when I got home, I realized I needed to pick the kids up out of bed and put them in their car seats to take the babysitter home, and I would have never thought about that how I would always before, when Tyler was there, he took the babysitter home, or I took the babysitter home and he stayed with the kids. I never thought about taking sleeping babies out of their beds.

Brad Quillen 7:25

And we hear that, from bank accounts to yard work, to car things, to shopping, to cooking, like that, that the spouse or partner that that they handled that, that piece or that chore, like you said, that those are all now just dumped in our plate and those are all now our responsibilities.

Erin Nelson 7:42

Yeah, and whoever's left with that, how they can fill those roles, you know, without it being all on them, and so that takes a lot of creativity and thought and we need support through that.

Brad Quillen 7:58

And it's hard to do that because not only are there more responsibilities, but there's the reality of this idea of grief and bereavement. And, Colleen, can you speak to just the definition of that word, the bereavement?

Colleen Montague 8:13

To be bereaved is to be torn apart, and so your spouse, that old adage that two become one. You two knew each other in the deepest of ways, in ways that few others could understand, and when they're gone, you're untethered, and it's almost like you have to relearn yourself a little bit. That's what I kind of thought of when you mentioned about what to grocery shop for Erin. You had to relearn yourself a little bit and what you would get just for yourself or for the kids, and so there's a lot of relearning to do when that other person is gone now.

Brad Quillen 8:52

Yeah, there's the reality of now you're the solo parent. I had one gentleman in group say years ago that I have to cook now and I have to teach myself how to cook, you know, and his comment was I didn't realize there was more spices than just salt and pepper. You know that there was way more that goes into cooking, or moms that needed car maintenance, things done, and where do you even begin? It's so overwhelming and all the different tasks, you're grieving, you're trying to figure out what tasks are being missed and skipped and now learn how to do all those. Or what's the password to the bank accounts online, the life insurance, all of those things.

Colleen Montague 9:29

Yeah, you know they really held the home with you and, like you said, filled a role that you may not have even realized at the time the enormity of it, and so that's just one of the many reasons why grief is so disorienting just to not have that constant in your home anymore.

Brad Quillen 9:51

Yeah, it's that rhythm that Erin was speaking about a minute ago that you get home, one of you keeps the kids in bed and the other one just picks up the rhythm of taking the babysitter home.

Erin Nelson 10:00

Yeah, and I think too, you know, we have different roles and we also have different personalities that we bring into the home, and so much of the time there may be one personality that is that brings in the levity right or brings in the fun, and I think about Colleen, you kind of talk a little bit about something we call glitter and glue.

Colleen Montague 10:25

Yeah, it's a phrase that was coined by author Kelly Corrigan in regards to her parents and the ideas that within a home, you know, one parent tends to be the glue, the person that keeps everybody, you know, put together, all the the permission slips signed, all of the kind of housekeeping, if you will, and then there's the glitter parent and that's kind of the fun parent, the one that is quick to bring levity into the home or do the spontaneous fun, and we have natural leans one versus the other. But then, once our spouse is gone, we're missing that glue or glitter and it's hard to adapt the one that is not your natural inclination. It's not impossible, but it's just one more thing that you now have to be mindful about.

Dealing With Grief and Guilt

Erin Nelson 11:20

Yeah, there's so many things to think about. When you've got you know, when you have kids and you're trying to manage all of their activities and keep the house going, and when you have had a partner in that to adjust, it's so disorienting to not have those rhythms in your everyday life. And I remember hearing a dad talk about how he and his wife were just you know, just the simple things like watching a TV series together, and they always looked forward to that at the end of the day and he said I don't want to watch that alone. It doesn't even feel right to keep the series going and to play another episode, because we were always together in that and so, just knowing that there were parts of life that you were doing together and you had so many hopes and dreams for your future and you were planning and hoping for and you know just things that you've been talking about for a long time.

Brad Quillen 12:21

And Erin, you bring up the future and I want to flip that coin over for a second and ask what would you say to someone that's listening? That goes, I didn't have a whole lot of future plans, but I sure have a lot of regrets. I wished I woulda, coulda, what if, like what do you say to that person that's listening today? That not so much the future, but if I could go back, here's what I would do different.

Erin Nelson 12:42

Here's what I would do different. Yeah, I think that's part of grief. I think regret and guilt is part of grief and I think, no matter what, you will feel that as part of your grief. Even if you did a lot right and you things were really, really good, you'll still have that. But we all have what a shoulda couldas and even if the person were still alive and you grow old together, you'd still would have those regrets, right?

Brad Quillen 13:11

That's true.

Erin Nelson 13:19

They're expressing them and being able to just say it out loud, tell someone what do you wish you would have done with them, you know, and just all of those regrets, being able to express them in some way is really important.

Colleen Montague 13:37

And that's grieving authentically. There's so much to that idea of being authentic in your grief and that's one of them. And even what you said earlier, Brad, about the things you don't miss and the imperfections that of course your spouse had and of course you had as a partner to them in return. And so really just bringing honor to the wholeness of your shared story with your partner, both the darkness and the light of it.

Erin Nelson 14:06

Yeah, and I think we disappoint people and they disappoint us, and that's part of life, and so even some of you know you could still be really upset and angry at them for what they've done, you know what they had done that was never resolved. And I think about the marriages that we hear about, even here at Jessica's house, and things are really rough and they never had the opportunity to do whatever it was they were starting to think about doing. You know, and if it was working it out, we know we've heard a story comes to my mind of someone who was just going to counseling for the first time and something I appreciated was she said they were kind of taking turns, so she went to the counselor first, then her husband did, and it was right before he died, and he walked in after seeing the counselor. He said, well, I think I know the problem, and then she was like, well, what is it? And he said it's you so, but you know, but he was joking and they were just starting to actually bring a little levity to some of what they were working through and they didn't get to finish that process and so when you know so some of that is you know she says I'm still in marriage counseling. I still tell him what I'm mad about and what the things that we never got to work through, and that's hard too.

Brad Quillen 15:36

But I'm just so glad that we're acknowledging this because so many people are struggling with that. You said something a second ago, Erin, that I don't know that we've ever talked about, so I'm going to bring it up here in the podcast and see where it goes. But guilt and grief, I thought in my head when you were speaking a minute ago, guilt is almost a guarantee in grief, kind of like tears. But then I thought to myself there's some people that don't cry, um, but I think guilt almost is right there as common as tears or sadness. The more I think about it just sitting here as you said that, and I'm curious what you guys would say to that, because, man, we've heard so many stories about guilt.

Erin Nelson 16:21

We've heard a lot of stories about guilt. One that stands out to me is a dad who talked about how he's learned to kind of, it's like kind of like a parking garage. He kind of goes in and parks for a little while and lets himself feel that guilt and then he kind of drives it back out and you can't park there forever. So I think about that it is part of grief and you need to express it, you need to feel it, you need to feel that in your body and just have those regrets and wish things could change and wish you could go back and all of that. But then there comes a time when I think it does get better, a little bit softer over time, but where you don't park there forever and that as you continue to express what you're feeling and that you can integrate those feelings of guilt.

Brad Quillen 17:14

So I have two questions and, Colleen, I'm going to come to you for the second one, because we hear kids talk about all the time the guilt and the death of if I would have acted better at school, there wouldn't have been as much pressure at home and all these things. But, Erin, you said something about feeling it in your body. There's some that might be listening that think what in the world does that even mean?

Erin Nelson 17:35

We have talked so much about these emotions of grief as having energy and so much of the time, and sometimes it will show up for somebody, just like in their throat or their stomach and their head.

Erin Nelson 17:53

They have pressure, they'll just say I just have this pressure in my head and we've talked about how sometimes just expressing those emotions or crying they'll find some relief for a time. But those feelings in your body, it's just part of grief, of just the energy. And how do we feel that and express it? The way we feel it and find what we need next and that, you know, as we are expressing it, could be really calling a friend, it could be taking a walk, it could be that you're just connecting somehow or you know, just finding, you know, your favorite snack and having a meal with a friend or whatever that might be. But it is important that you feel it, express it and then find what you need next.

Brad Quillen 18:47

Yeah, and I'm just so glad we're talking about this because so many people think, oh, I'm just feeling this, I'm just off today. No, it's grief. You're feeling grief, tightness in the chest, shortness of breath, all these things that I've heard for years. But, Colleen, what about kiddos and guilt? Because we hear that often.

Colleen Montague 19:07

Yeah, we have, of course, the understandable logical parts of guilt that kids will bring to us, just the, you know, I wish I would have spent more time with him and less time on my phone. Maybe a teen might say or I wish I would have not yelled at him at the dinner table that last time. And then sometimes there's some illogical pieces of guilt that kids will hold thinking. We had a kid once whose dad died of a heart attack and the kid thought that he actually caused it because he had yelled at his dad a couple nights before. And so he thought, by the way he treated his dad, that that had caused his dad's heart to stop working. And you know you can bring logic to that. But to Erin's point, it's still worth going there with them and just acknowledging you think you think you caused it, you, you feel bad for yelling at him. Nothing that you say could make someone's body stop working now.

Colleen Montague 20:10

So allow them to have that feeling and don't totally dismiss it, but then you can bring logic to it for them. So other ideas of guilt that we've seen before are kids. Naturally we've talked about this dip in and out of their grief and there's times where they're going to feel excitement again. You know, maybe they get invited to a birthday party and they're really looking forward to it and then all of a sudden they realize I can't be excited about this, my mom just died, and then they felt guilty for going for going or even just having a normal emotion of happiness, because that can be there again, we can feel moments of joy again, and it's okay.

Brad Quillen 20:49

Yeah, we hear that around activities a lot with kiddos Like how can I go to this and my dad not be there or my mom not be there? You know, and want to go have fun without them.

Erin Nelson 20:58

Or they may even be getting some feedback from their friends of you know, I thought your mom died. Why are you laughing or why are you playing, or why are you at this party today if your mom died? And I think kids are teaching us here at Jessica's House they just want to be normal kids, they want to just go have fun, they want to go play, they want to be outside, they want to be treated the way they always have been. And so being able to, yeah, like counter that guilt in some ways that you can hold both you can really miss your mom and you can have a lot of fun and it's okay to hold both at the same time. And you're not always going to feel the intensity of your grief. You will have times of lightning.

Brad Quillen 21:46

And for those of you listening, the moms and dads, that you can laugh too. Oh yeah, like people come to group here and do groups with the adult groups, with us, and they laugh in group and we see that emotion, like wait, that's the first time I've laughed since they died right, and they start to kind of get back into that a bit.

Erin Nelson 22:02

Yeah, and I think about that, Brad and Jessica's House, when we first opened, we had a teeny, tiny little house and the parents were in group and the kids were on, just right there was just a door and they were..

Brad Quillen 22:15

... a glass door...

Erin Nelson 22:16

... yeah, a glass door, and they were on the very just the next side of the door. And here I think about when the parents, when I would be in a parent group and they heard the kids laughing and just you could see it, you could feel it on them that just how much it meant to them to hear their kids laughing. And for the for the kids same thing. When all the parents would just erupt in laughter and the kids you could just see it brought comfort to them as well.

Brad Quillen 22:43

almost like a normal, is back in a little way.

Erin Nelson 22:46

Yeah, and just that we can dip in and out of our grief, and also there will be times when we feel levity, and that's life, and you can feel guilty a little bit about that, but just keep going and keep letting yourself authentically grieve in that way.

Brad Quillen 23:01

And if you're listening and you are needing more resources and with some of these things, with your own life or your kiddo's life, don't forget that you can always look at jessicashouse. org under the resource tab and find quite a few things there to help you. If this is resonating in any way this far today. Erin, can I ask you one last question before we go to break and Colleen, we talk about honoring the wholeness of your person's story.

Erin Nelson 23:26

Yeah, when I think about the wholeness of the person's story is to really honor them for who they were altogether, which means not only their really great part. The great parts of them right, but also the hard parts of them and the human parts of them. Yes, and when we remember somebody, it's okay to laugh at their quirkiness and to also say, yeah and that other, that part of him that was or her that was really difficult, that disrupted our family at times, like, let's talk about that too, because that is a very real part of life that we all of us live inside of Right, and so honor the whole person. It's so tempting sometimes to just honor and talk about the good parts, and we want to do that. But to honor the whole person is to give respect to who they were in the not so great parts of them as well, and we have all kinds of parts of us, right?

Navigating Social Changes After Grief

Brad Quillen 24:33

That's right, because there's some that are listening that you might not have been together because of some of those human parts and just some of those hardships, and so that this is makes it more complex with the death and some of those things.

Colleen Montague 24:46

So true, it's an unfortunate reality that a lot of relationships are very strained. A lot could be in separation or divorced, and if that's part of your story, it certainly does complicate things a bit for you. But the reality is you loved them at one part of your life and you share a family with them your children and it's okay to grieve their loss still. You may even grieve the reality of what can never be. If you held a hope for reconciliation, and now that's no more. Or if they were just a really hard person in your life and it was better to be apart from them, but still, you can grieve their loss.

Brad Quillen 25:37

Yeah, we just want to acknowledge that piece of some of the complexities that comes in when a spouse dies. That's going to take us to our break and when we come back after the break we're going to talk a little bit about social changes and just some of the ways those affect us as we're grieving.

Gary Shriver 25:54

Jessica's House is a children's bereavement center located in California's Central Valley since 2012. Jessica's House provides free peer support for children, teens, young adults and their families grieving a loss. If you need grief-related support, please visit jessicashouse. org to download our free resources and be sure to follow Jessica's House on social media. And if you have any questions or topics you'd like us to explore in a future episode, just send us an email at info@ jessicashouse. org.

Brad Quillen 26:30

Welcome back from the break and I wanted to share an illustration we heard from a family member here at Jessica's House not too long ago about the idea that his life with his wife was kind of scripted or drawn on an etch-a-sketch as they were planning for their future and their family and down the road. But then his wife ultimately died and it's as if someone came up to his Etch-a-Sketch and took it and shook it back and forth and then handed it back to him and how much confused and dismantled his life felt once that Etch-a-Sketch was shaken and they handed it back to him and Erin, that sounds a lot like the adults we work with here at Jessica's House.

Erin Nelson 27:11

Yeah, I think the disorientation of having, like he said, this Etch-A-Sketch that he had been building his life on and having it shaken. And then I remember him saying it was just like I had these a few little squiggles here and there. It's like there's a lot, there's some pieces that remain, but it doesn't look anything like it did and it wasn't anything that he imagined as he built this life. And so just to have just this kind of erased life, you know where do you start, yeah, and everything looks different, everything, just this kind of erased life, you know where do you start?

Brad Quillen 27:48

Yeah, and everything looks different.

Erin Nelson 27:50

Everything.

Brad Quillen 27:51

From parenting to work, to friendships, to social engagements, all those things look different.

Erin Nelson 28:15

Yeah, I was thinking about just, you know, something I think about so often that looks so different, that's rarely talked about, is even the difference of not having someone to share your enjoyment of your children. Because you know, when you are partners in raising your kids, so much of the time you're just kind of looking at them and they don't have to be doing anything special, they're just kind of breathing and they're just kind of playing next to you and you kind of share this little like aren't they cool? You know, look what we did here, and so you know, and you lose that forever. You know you never have someone that you can share that love, that deep love and attachment to your children, you lose that. Yeah, no one can hold that with you again.

Brad Quillen 28:55

The three of us have kids and we understand what it's like to look across the room when your kid does something and just know you're sharing that same thought. Reacting to the what your little one or old one just did.

Erin Nelson 29:08

Exactly. Just sharing those thoughts and like like kind of jokingly, like blaming each other for it, whatever it was like.

Brad Quillen 29:17

That was all you.

Erin Nelson 29:18

Exactly, yeah, and just those inside jokes, right? I mean just the things that you share as parents parenting these kids and you have the memories that you'll never get to share. There are memories no one else will have, those early days that you know no one else was around. You can never say remember that time when this child did this or whatever. There's no one to share that with because no one was even there with you. You were in the intimate kind of parts of your home and your room and your child's room. No one else saw that. There's no one to talk to about that.

Brad Quillen 29:54

Erin, it's so true because there's those relationships between husband and wife and spouse and partners and those things that change so drastically. But all of our relationships change, even in the world of friendship they change, and so that's hard to accept when things have felt so dismantled with those other adults around us. Coworkers are just people we've known for years, and, Colleen, what do you say to that? Those that are kind of struggling with just friendships?

Colleen Montague 30:21

You had the mutual friends between you and your spouse that you spent time together, and we've heard so often how off it feels after their spouse is gone. It's really hard for some to be with those previous friendships, maybe always feeling like the third wheel or the fifth wheel. You also are in relationships with others who are also grieving the loss of your partner. You know with your extended family, somebody lost their brother and somebody lost their son, and so you're not grieving alone, you're grieving with others, and it can be uniting and isolating all at the same time.

Erin Nelson 31:04

The friendships that even I had with when Tyler was alive and we had these couple friends and you really never get that back and later on, as I remarried, even we kind of lost that window of those early marriage couple friends, and so that changes you, that changes forever. You never go back to having those couple friends that you like to do life with when the kids are young, and so it's just a big impact.

Brad Quillen 31:35

It changes everything.

Erin Nelson 31:36

It does.

Brad Quillen 31:37

And we've said that in the house that grief changes everything.

Erin Nelson 31:40

Yeah, and just losing someone that you're doing life with every day it does. It changes every aspect of your life, and I know when we've heard from other parents here at Jessica's House, it's they just say you know, it's just not the same. And even though I may be invited to go to the concert, you know, with my couple of friends, but we always did that together, that was something that we shared and it just I just don't even feel comfortable and I sometimes will feel like, are they trying to work at including me in the conversation? It just feels awkward now. It never felt like this before, and so you're finding your way again back into your social circles and that's not easy.

Colleen Montague 32:24

And it may even look like a new social circle, we have a lot of parents here who have connected with each other in their groups. In fact, one mom recently in our group said you know, ever since my husband died, I've had so many friendship changes that actually now a lot of my friendships have stemmed from a connection through a loss of a spouse. You know meeting people here at Jessica's House, and so she made a very interesting point that all of her friends now have lost a spouse. That's the commonality that she has found to be helpful in this stage in life.

Erin Nelson 33:03

She kind of is doing what we talked about and she's kind of recreating her life in some way, of being able to come to a place where she doesn't feel so different because in her everyday life she's feeling so different. But here at Jessica's House, she is finding others who really get it. know, there's no energy involved, right, you get to just put it into the room, you don't have to explain, it's just, they just get each other and they take really good care of each other. And that's something really sweet to watch is the friendships that are born.

Erin Nelson 33:39

And for our listeners today, I'm thinking about you know, how do you find not that you have to find all new friendships, but sometimes being able to like find new hobbies or something that you enjoy, sometimes, after a spouse dies, because our identities are so with each other, there's a little bit of redefining of yourself, because you kind of go back and think like you know you said this earlier about the grocery store, colleen Colleen like what do I like? You know, what do I like to do? What have I always dreamed I might try someday? And so being able to redefine yourself in some ways, because you may find some connections if you're taking a pottery class or you're joining a hiking group or doing something that you may be never were able to do when your spouse was here because you guys had different interests. So it is a little redefining and finding somewhere where you don't feel quite so alone.

Brad Quillen 34:41

I was curious what you guys would say to this, because when you were speaking it made me think back to our episode on the holidays, that when we go into the holidays we need to give ourselves permission to not do everything or go to everything or have some outs. And it came up because, Erin, you were talking about some of those friendships, like maybe you're just feeling like the conversation is forced or it's work or it's just not natural anymore, and, Colleen, you were talking about that third and fifth wheel piece, like we used to do double dates with these different couples and now I'm the solo person. What is it like for people to give themselves permissions to not have to do what they used to do because so much has changed? And how can someone plan ahead to where they're able to get out of something when it feels just off and awkward?

Colleen Montague 35:28

Yeah, I think your keyword there, Brad, was planning ahead, but because you never know how you're going to be feeling in the moment, and so just having plan A, plan B, plan C if you will. But you know, maybe you do want to accept the invitation initially, but you could always preface it with, you know, right now that sounds great, you know, thank you for the invite. You know things have been a little chaotic lately or hard lately, and so, um, there's a, there's a slight chance I may need to cancel the day of, but right now count me in. And that kind of gives you a little bit of that safety backup plan in case the day of you're not feeling it and you won't know until you get there.

Erin Nelson 36:12

Yeah, and I think our energy just it changes right and sometimes we might have more capacity for some hard kinds of like things that do take a little more energy. And if you're feeling depleted, like you said, it's okay to just take a break and go to those easier, and I just would say look for the flow, like where do you find it's a little bit easier to have those conversations and to kind of go towards that? And if you're not feeling, if things feel really clunky, it's okay to take a break from that.

Brad Quillen 36:46

One parent said to me in group one time I always drive because then I can leave. And I thought, hmm, so true that first couple of years they just said I always drive, so I have a way to leave. I thought that was, that was pretty good, it wouldn't have dawned on me unless I was in that scenario.

Colleen Montague 37:03

Yeah, and you won't, you won't know all the tips and tricks for yourself right away. You're going to learn those in time, and so each experience can be viewed as a learning opportunity. You know well, that didn't feel so great, you know, what did I need instead? What could I do differently next time, or you know what that kind of worked out well, I'm going to do that again in the future. I'm going to take my own car.

Brad Quillen 37:23

Yeah, and, as we're talking about this, for us as adults, social changes are real for the kids that we're parenting.

Erin Nelson 37:31

Yeah, I think when we're thinking about the kids, we're thinking about all the changes that they are experiencing and it could even be through, you know, sports or friendships, like I know we've had kids here at Jessica's House and their dad was their coach and they were really proud of him. You know, when he was part of the you know neighborhood, he was kind of the neighborhood dad in some ways and you know it was just part, like really involved, and then all of a sudden he's not there anymore. And so I think identity is something it's like, who am I now? Like when I'm not the coach's son anymore and I don't get to just stand at the site on the sidelines with him anymore. And you know, so I think there's a change in identity and um, and just knowing that as kids just go, and there's also like a redefining in them and I think like maybe they're having a trajectory of maybe what they thought they were going to do, and then they may look into other interests that they hadn't thought about for a while. Maybe they always played soccer, but now they're going to try baseball or, you know, maybe they start music or something like that. So I think, just as you know, as your life changes, you might have other opportunities.

Colleen Montague 38:58

Yeah, i t makes me think of the kid we had in group once who always wanted to have a cat, but that wasn't, his dad was allergic to cats, not a big fan, and that was something that the family did later on after the dad had died. You know, they decided, you know what, I guess we can have a cat now, and so that was a something that, of course, they didn't want to have happen, but a little bit of lightness that was they were able to bring into the home.

Erin Nelson 39:24

Things have changed and now we are identifying just a different way to go forward.

Colleen Montague 39:29

Yeah, it's almost worth buying an Etch-a-Sketch for your family just as like a little example of like hey, this is what we thought we had, and it's been shaken. And so now what?

Erin Nelson 39:39

Yeah, we're going to just turn those knobs and start rebuilding.

Colleen Montague 39:42

Yeah, one of the things with that Etch-a-Sketch and those changes is just the change in roles. We talked about this earlier, about what your spouse was for you. You know, in life and within the home, and your kids have those same impressions or ideals, and so you know who took him to school every day, was it you or your spouse who did pickup, who helped with homework, who was really good at math? You know who made dinner every night or most nights, who was the one that took care of the lawn or the laundry, you know made sure the baseball uniform was washed and ready to go. And so the kids are wondering you know who's going to fill these roles as well.

Erin Nelson 40:28

Yeah, I was going to say, Colleen, that being able to say, hey, dad always made dinner. It's going to look different now, but let me tell you who's who will fill that role. So, will you be you, or will a grandparent drop off food once a week and being able to prepare them for, yeah, I can't pick you up from school anymore because I'm not out of work in time, but this is who will pick you up. And so, being able to communicate any kind of role change because the person died, communicate that with your child.

Colleen Montague 41:01

And also learn from your child, ask them. You know I know mom put you to bed every night. What did she do? What did bedtime look like? What do you still want me to do? How did she pack your lunch? What did she always include? Is there always like something special she put in there that you want me to keep doing? So let them teach you what was important and what they still want to see happening.

Erin Nelson 41:24

Yeah, and what maybe they want to change.

Colleen Montague 41:26

Absolutely.

Erin Nelson 41:30

So I love what you're saying, Colleen, about just hearing from the kids. They give us the best ideas.

Brad Quillen 41:35

And as you're listening to this, you might've found yourself as Colleen talked about, you know the person who died was better at math than you and you find yourself being frustrated about that. That's okay, because I've heard in groups over the years they were supposed to be here to do this, or my favorite is he was supposed to teach them to drive not me, like I'm so scared to teach my kid to drive, or I don't understand algebra or all these things, but there's that frustration of they were supposed to be here to help me do this.

Erin Nelson 42:03

Yeah, you never expect that they won't be there and some things are going to drop. That's the reality. And that's really tough, you know, and you're not able to fill every role that that person filled. It's okay, it's like some things will drop because the reality is they're not here anymore. And that's hard and it's sad. And give yourself the grace that you need, as you live inside of this new reality, to know that you can't do everything. And that's tough, but just take it breath by breath.

Brad Quillen 42:39

We want to leave you parents and your kiddos with a expressive art idea and we call these healing practices. And Colleen, Erin, who's going to lead us through that?

Colleen Montague 42:50

I can. So one idea we wanted to share with you that you can do with your kiddos or kids, if they're a little older, is just writing a letter to the person who died, or even just a little note to themselves, a little like kind of journal entry. But with these prompts we want to give you and just see where they take you: "I miss the times we...", I'll never forget..., thank you for... Any others, Erin?

Erin Nelson 43:25

I like the one, just, " I wish...," you know just getting all their wishes out and letting that be and come together. You can both answer these questions and just be with your kids as you talk about this and sometimes you're kind of helping them as the memory kind of preserver keeper and you know being able to talk about those memories and all the wishes that you have.

Navigating Child Grief Support

Brad Quillen 43:45

Well, Erin and Colleen, thank you for this today. It's so good and so rich. For those of you listening, be sure to visit us at jessicashouse. org for more grief resources or if you have any questions or got a show idea, reach out to us at info@ jessicashouse. org. Be sure to join us next time for another episode of When Grief Comes Home, where we'll be discussing supporting your child after the death of their parent. Until then, we wish you well.

Gary Shriver 44:12

Jessica's House is a children's bereavement center located in California's Central Valley since 2012. We provide free peer support for children, teens, young adults and their families grieving a loss. If you need grief-related support, please visit jessicashouse. org to download our free resources and be sure to follow Jessica's House on social media, and if you have any questions or topics you'd like for us to explore in future episodes, just send us an email to info@jessicashouse. org. Thank you for joining us and we'll see you next time, for When Grief Comes Home.