Honoring Your Connection as You Grieve

Welcome to the When Grief Comes Home podcast. We're glad you're here. This podcast supports parents who are grieving a spouse, partner, or child while helping their children who are living through the loss of a parent or sibling. With personal grief stories and professional guidance, we offer parents practical tips for supporting their child who is grieving while caring for their own grief. 

In this episode, Brad, Erin, and Colleen explore how tangible reminders, personal stories, and ongoing emotional bonds play essential roles in both adult and child grief processes. By embracing the fullness of relationships and fostering open conversations about grief, families can find meaningful ways to keep memories alive. 

Please subscribe to the When Grief Comes Home podcast and leave us a review. The more stars, reviews, and downloads the show receives, the more parents and families in grief can find support.  

Order the book When Grief Comes Home https://a.co/d/ijaiP5L

For more information on Jessica’s House or for additional resources, please go to jessicashouse.org 

Transcript

Honoring Your Loved One's Memory

Gary Shriver 0:00

Hello and welcome to When Grief Comes Home, a podcast dedicated to parents living through loss while supporting their child. Let's meet the team.

Erin Nelson 0:11

I'm Erin Nelson, founding executive director at Jessica's House.

Colleen Montague 0:15

Hi, I'm Colleen Montague, program director for Jessica's House and a licensed marriage and family therapist.

Brad Quillen 0:21

Hi, I'm Brad Quillen and I'm the host of When Grief Comes Home.

Gary Shriver 0:25

This podcast goes along with a book of the same name. The book When Grief Comes Home is a gentle guide for parents who are grieving a partner or child, while helping their children through the loss of their parent or sibling. When Grief Comes Home is now available at all major book retailers. Now let's go to the team, as they share grief resources and coping skills, heartfelt stories and insights to support parents as they raise children who are grieving. Together, you'll find strength as we learn to live with loss and find ways to heal.

Brad Quillen 1:00

Hello, hello, it's Brad from Jessica's House. Today we're talking about honoring your connection to your loved one as you grieve. There are a number of ways that we do this. One of the greatest ways that we share is through stories, and we connect with our loved ones over that. But there's also physical ways in which we remember them and sometimes we call those linking objects. Erin, I know there's a number of personal items that you hold on to that are linking objects for Carter. Would you mind sharing a few of those with us?

Erin Nelson 1:29

Yeah Brad, you know something that I think about when I think about Carter and how I feel connected to him. One way is just how something that's just kind of shown up for us in a lot of different places is a white butterfly. And you know, it seems to me that a white butterfly will just come at the exact same time as I really really need it, and so that's been especially meaningful. Brian and I can think of so many times where we're taking a walk, even in another city that we're visiting, and we'll just see a white butterfly and we just feel like, oh, there he is, you know. And it's also interesting that at the same time, I wish it wasn't a white butterfly, I wish that it was him, you know, and sometimes I wish, like that, I didn't just have to be satisfied with a white butterfly. That, you know, that connection can kind of make me mad, sometimes too, in a weird way. But you know, I was talking to a mom a couple of years ago and we were talking about our sons and her son had died as well, and she was telling me a story about how, when she was sitting by her son's grave one day, there was a really big white owl that came to sit next to her in a tree that was right next to his grave and she just said how profound it was to have that white owl just come and land there. And she looked at me and she said, well, how does Carter show up for you? And I said, oh, he shows up as a white butterfly. And she said, you know, maybe you should ask if he could come as something a little bigger, like a white owl. And I thought, you know what, maybe that's a good idea. Colleen and I were together, we were at a training out of state and we were coming home from the airport and I was kind of thinking, I like just wondering, like how would I want Carter to show up for me in a bigger way? And when we got to her house and I was dropping her off, there was this little baby fox that was just sitting there looking at us. And we kind of laughed because I told her the story. And so now I also look for a fox and kind of keep that we have a fox around Jessica's House and one of our kids has named him Jesse and it's the cutest thing. And so I just think about the fox around Jessica's House someday and he wreaks a little havoc, which is just so Carter-like.

Brad Quillen 3:54

Very appropriate right.

Erin Nelson 3:55

Very appropriate. So, yeah, you know, I think we're always looking for ways to connect with our loved one, right and just. I think about listeners today and sometimes we're just so desperate for that, just some way that they might be able to show up for us. And so there's a body of research by Klass and Silverman that talks about continuing bonds, and it's a very important part of our healing, and so it's kind of this idea that when we have a bond with somebody, that it kind of grows over time and that even if they die, it continues to grow and you can continue to have a bond with that person who died and how important that is for your healing. And there's a lot of research behind it and the way you heal is related to how you feel connected with them. And so we just want to introduce that today and just talk to our listeners a little bit about what that might mean for them as they look for their person and what might be meaningful and how they connect with them.

Brad Quillen 4:59

And sometimes, when you're going about your day or you Bryan are are out and you see a white butterfly, there might be a smile that comes, but there might be tears too, because it's a reminder of what's happened and I think some people get caught off guard. I hear that from time to time, that when they're reminded they get caught off guard. That that other emotion comes from from seeing that that linking object too.

Erin Nelson 5:19

Definitely yeah, and sometimes it's just such a comfort and somehow you know you feel like they're just showing up in some way and you may even kind of feel them a little bit in that.

Erin Nelson 5:31

And just knowing. Sometimes you just think like, were they real? You know, because they're not here anymore and you have these memories, but they feel like they're just not anything that you can really be tangibly holding on to. But when you have something in your hand maybe it's one of their belongings, or you see something that's real in your environment, it helps you to have something tangible, because memories don't feel that way sometimes, and so I think that's a really sweet way to just know that they were real in something real is in front of you.

Brad Quillen 6:05

Yeah, that tangible.

Colleen Montague 6:07

What tangible things do you have of Carter's?

Erin Nelson 6:11

Well, right now I have his phone kind of sitting next to me, or just when I get ready in the morning I have this little like just his phone is sitting on the counter there and I just always kind of you know, I was always with him and so he has a little sticker on it and one of the bands that he liked, and so I like to just keep it next to me and, as I've mentioned before, he was a musician, so on his phone there are a lot of songs that he sang and just different things like that. So I just I like to keep that next to me. I have his clothes still like in his closet that he's seeing, and just different things like that. So I just I like to keep that next to me. I have his clothes still like in his closet and I'll go and just put on. He loved flannels and so I'll go put a shirt on or just like go look at it, and so I we have those items and I'm really grateful for that.

Colleen Montague 7:00

I appreciate what you said about just that strong desire. You're just seeking that connection that isn't there in the way that it used to be, and so how objects can help with that?

Erin Nelson 7:14

Definitely, and I think, if I think about that Klass, Silverman, the kind of research that they did, something they kind of talk about how relationships evolve and mature. I think one part of his death and my grief that I've noticed lately it's been five years is that I think there was a long time, right especially right after his car accident, that when I would think of him sometimes I would remember kind of what happened. That when I would think of him sometimes I would remember kind of what happened and it would be hard for me not to kind of go into those images in some ways. And now I'm finding it a lot easier to just kind of imagine him next to me and I've just had those experiences and I wonder about that and I wonder about kind of how our relationship has evolved and matured and if it's a little bit easier now to just kind of imagine him with me, tell me more about what that means to imagine him with you.

Erin Nelson 8:16

Yeah, so I think about just recently I was on an airplane which I don't love flying, and if it gets a little turbulent, I was just like, well, who would I want next to me right now? You know, someone that would keep me safe. And I thought about how Carter was such a jokester and like if he was next to me, what would he be doing, you know? And he'd probably be saying like, oh mom, did you hear that sound? That means we're going down, or something like that. And so I was just thinking about him and how he just had such a strong presence and he was really one of those kids that just had a lot of courage and he just kind of embodied stability and he was just a solid kind of presence that he was just not really afraid of much in the world.

Erin Nelson 9:04

And I'm kind of more the scared one. So I was thinking about how, what would he be doing? Just probably snickering at me a little bit and just kind of being with me. But I was imagining him there with me. So I just think he would just be laughing at me, you know in some ways, and but I just was imagining that and I'm glad that I have the ability to kind of bring him up in that.

Colleen Montague 9:26

A nd you know, speaking of bringing him up, I never had the pleasure to meet Carter. I met you after he had died, and what I am grateful for is that you have helped me get to know him through how much you're willing to talk about him. You know, and when I ask questions and the stories that you share, I feel like as though I did know him, and so thank you, and I think that's another way that you're honoring your relationship with him and keeping that part of him alive in his memory and who he was

Erin Nelson 10:02

Well thank you for listening, and I just appreciate being able to talk about him and I think about our families and how they also do that and as part of their healing as they come here to Jessica's House is to share those memories, and I think of all the people that we've had the honor to know, because their loved ones are teaching us about them and keeping their memory alive and telling their story, and I'm just so grateful for that.

Colleen Montague 10:32

We've had kids here at Jessica's house who wear their you know sibling who died. They come wearing their shoes or their shirt and that is a linking object for them and a way for them to introduce their sibling or their parent to us maybe, and you know the kind of band that the brother liked and the shirt that their sister's now wearing.

Erin Nelson 10:54

It's such a gift we get to learn about their person's favorite color and what they love to do and all of that, and I know other and parents will even share just dreams that they've had of the person who died. And sometimes they'll say you know, sometimes it didn't feel like a dream, it felt like they were right next to me. And so I think some of those ways that we're connecting whether we're dreaming about them or maybe it's a dream we wish we could have it's really just keeping that connection alive. It's a forever connection, you know, when we have someone that we love.

Colleen Montague 11:32

If that relationship is there, whether the person is alive or not, you will always have had that relationship with them and, like you're saying, it even evolves in time. But and with that, grief is not something that you go through, it's something that becomes part of you. So there is no closure or letting go of your relationship with them.

Erin Nelson 11:53

Yeah, exactly, and sometimes, like you know, we've heard from parents that there are parts of their relationship that are unfinished. Maybe some really hard parts of life that weren't resolved. I had one mom say to me that their marriage is the best it's ever been because she's been able to work through some things that maybe weren't they weren't able to do in life. You know, but it's, you know, she continues to work through some of those hard parts and you know, it's just that relationship continues. Yeah, you carry them with you, Absolutely.

Brad Quillen 12:34

I'm glad you guys have mentioned that the relationship goes forever, because Dr Alan Wolfelt has a great quote that I learned many, many years ago from him that says though death may have ended a life, it doesn't end the relationship, and that's I've always added onto it. That's always going to be your mom, it's always gonna be your brother, your uncle, grandparent, right? Forever. And so that's there's no closure in that. It's no giving up on that relationship or letting it go, that it's now no longer.

Erin Nelson 13:02

Right, and I think what Dr Wolfelt does so well is to really come into a new place of thinking about that relationship, that death ends a life, not a relationship. To say that you know there's no closure in loss. It's something that we integrate over time. And I think there was a way of thinking to say, like, after a year you have closure, you need to have closure. Maybe it's at the funeral that's your closure. And what this research is saying with Klass and Silverman is that we do have that relationship and it's okay to open yourself up to a new way of relating with this person that was so important to you. And so we're not saying that, oh, we have to let go of them. Over time I think that our relationship will change with them. But you know, you don't have to force yourself to have closure or force yourself to let go, just letting the grief process do what it does. It's a natural process of loss.

Brad Quillen 14:02

I hear in group often where family members of someone that's in group will mention like have you moved on yet? Are you ready to date again? You know how much longer? So it's a constant that we hear yeah.

Erin Nelson 14:16

Definitely. Yeah, there's an expectation and yeah, the moving on piece. That's just so tough.

Brad Quillen 14:23

The relationship changes.

Erin Nelson 14:25

The relationship changes, but I think it makes people they are more comfortable. If you're doing like in quotation marks better yeah.

Colleen Montague 14:34

And if you are seeking closure, I think you're going to be striving or searching for something that you can't actually find or feel right, and so it's not even something you can achieve. You can't get closure, it's going to be there forever, and so acknowledging that, I think, is a first step.

Erin Nelson 14:53

Yeah, and I think, acknowledging that in some ways it's sometimes you can even facilitate that a little bit, even with questions, like you know, I'll never forget or thank you for, or, you know, like I wish, like some of those parts of a relationship, especially when someone dies suddenly maybe you didn't get a chance to talk to them to just say thank you for, and some of those pieces of being able to facilitate those unfinished parts of your relationship.

Colleen Montague 15:26

What about, though, like you know, like the apology that you never got to deliver or that you never received and that you can't, now. You're saying to embrace, that lean into the wondering and the wishing, and then do you just have to let that be enough? Do you just keep going back to that because you're never going to get that apology or really truly be able to give it?

Erin Nelson 15:50

I think, wishing that you could get the apology right? And just you know, knowing that maybe you don't have it. I remember doing an activity with our kids where we had them write a letter from the person who died to themselves, you know, and then they wrote a letter back and so some of those pieces that maybe they wish they could have heard, that would be in line with that person's character of what they would have said to them. So being able to facilitate some communication after the person died is is can be really helpful.

Colleen Montague 16:23

And it's okay to acknowledge what you needed, even if you can't get that, but just to be aware and acknowledge that you needed something.

Erin Nelson 16:31

Yeah, you needed something. And even, just you know, we've heard kids say, like you know, that they are looking, maybe, to advice that their dad would give them, and even though he's not there, they're wondering, like, if my dad was here, you know, I wonder if he would say this to me. And so sometimes they can even feel a little momentum of what their dad normally said or did and that what they would say to them at this time, like you know, and you could even, as a parent, say, you know, what would your dad or what would your mom say? What do you think they would say to you in this moment?

Brad Quillen 17:09

Process that out with a parent or with someone that knew them well.

Erin Nelson 17:13

Yes.

Brad Quillen 17:15

I have a question that just struck me when we were talking about closing, moving on, letting go, is closing the door on that relationship, almost saying like they were never a part of my life. Like how, how can you do that? Like how can you just say, oh, that that's closed in my life?

Colleen Montague 17:32

And to add to that, Brad, I wonder in my mind, I'm wondering if we want, and we're seeking, closure from the pain of it, and that's really what we want.

Brad Quillen 17:41

We want that gone.

Colleen Montague 17:42

We want that gone, not them. Not them, but I hear what you're saying.

Erin Nelson 17:46

Well, it reminds me of that. We can't even do that in life, right?

Brad Quillen 17:51

Correct.

Erin Nelson 17:52

Like you know, once we have a relationship with somebody, they were part of our life in some way, even if it was a short time, in some way, even if it was a short time, and that a lot of those relationships that they have have an impact on us going forward

Brad Quillen 18:07

Absolutely. All the relationships we have have an impact on us.

Colleen Montague 18:17

Which is why you don't, you can't know exactly what your dad would say to you in this moment, you won't get that direct advice from him, but because he had an impact on your life and helped form you to be who you are, you could have an idea of what he would have said.

Erin Nelson 18:28

Yeah, because you knew him so well, yeah, yeah, and that you're missing that presence in your life and just being able to acknowledge that. Of course it's not the same, but we want to just give permission that you can continue to just keep that alive, of their influence, that they had in your life.

Brad Quillen 18:48

And sometimes those connections come when we sit with those linking objects.

Erin Nelson 18:52

Yeah,

Brad Quillen 18:52

Holding on to those things, wearing the flannel right?

Erin Nelson 18:56

Flannel right. Yeah, Hanging on to something like something they gave to you. Dr Wolfelt talks about having his dad's watch right and just anything that we might have that can link us to that person.

Brad Quillen 19:14

I've had adults talk about, when their adult children have died, where they'll sit in their kid's car right and just sit in it as if they're with them in the car, you know just those those moments.

Erin Nelson 19:26

Definitely. I mean, I felt so much comfort in just being in Carter's bed, you know, and just laying there and just knowing he laid in there the night before, whatever it was, and it was just like you want to touch what they touched. I still have his fingerprints in the garage and on our you know little banister and I just it. It feels so good to know that he was real and that I can touch what he touched.

Brad Quillen 19:52

Yeah, it's been so good and we're going to take a break and come back and talk a little bit about some of those items that people leave behind after they die and how do we process through those things.

Gary Shriver 20:02

Jessica's House is a children's bereavement center located in California's Central Valley since 2012. We provide free peer support for children, teens, young adults and their families grieving a loss. The When Grief Comes Home podcast goes along with the book of the same name. The book When Grief Comes Home is a gentle guide for parents who are grieving a partner or child while helping their children through the loss of their parent or sibling. When Grief Comes Home is now available at all major book retailers and if you need grief-related support, please visit jessicashouse. org to download our free resources and be sure to follow Jessica's House on social media. If you have any questions or topics that you'd like us to explore in a future episode, just send us an email to info@ jessicashouse. org.

Brad Quillen 20:54

Welcome back from the break. We're going to go ahead and continue talking about relationships and the reality of how complicated they are, even after someone dies. Erin, Colleen, we were talking off the air a minute ago about how complicated relationships are and the reality that there might be things we don't miss.

Erin Nelson 21:12

Yeah, when we talk at Jessica's House, there's a little question that we have on one of the games that we play that says I mean, what do you not miss about the person who died? And I think when we're talking about remembering the person who died and staying connected to the person who died, we want to make sure that we're staying connected to the whole person right. All the complexities of what makes a human a human, right, this unfinished part of your relationship and anything that they may have even been working through in their lives and between the two of you and in your family. And so giving that honest attention to the fullness and complexity of your relationship just really helps you find that most authentic way to grieve right and your most authentic way to relate to them and to keep that connection alive.

Brad Quillen 22:05

I know there's differences even with my kiddos that, and all of us that are parents that some kids get to us a little quicker, some it's a little easier, but we all have different relationships with that person who died too.

Erin Nelson 22:16

Yeah, and I think it really speaks to the complexity of being human, and that they are irreplaceable. No one will be in the world and have all of the experiences they have and be just like them. So they are irreplaceable. And so, as we honor them and as we stay connected to them, we know that they're the only person that could ever fill that role in your life.

Brad Quillen 22:40

And in that first segment we were talking about boy, I would love to have dad or mom's advice on this and we would love to have some of those quirks back that made them who they are. But there is a reality of I don't miss this part. I mean we're all works in progress, we're all working on things in our lives and have struggles, but there's some things that it's okay to say. I don't miss that about mom. I don't miss that about dad or my brother.

Erin Nelson 23:11

Right, or if, as a parent, about your spouse who died, or maybe if your child died and you know there may be some really hard parts of them, even as they got older that you were working on even just parenting, and so to give honor to all of it working on even just parenting, and so to give honor to all of it.

Colleen Montague 23:27

And with our kids especially, they don't know that it's okay to have those little, maybe annoyances or aspects that they don't miss. I think that with kids, if they feel that way, shame is quick to follow.

Colleen Montague 23:35

Well, how could I actually think that they're gone, I should only have respect for that person. But if we as a parent can show them that it's okay to have those natural feelings, those natural parts of being in a relationship, that it wasn't perfect and saying like, yeah, remember how hard it was. And so, as a parent, I think it's okay to model that for your kids. You don't have to go into nitty gritty, but it's okay to say things that you don't miss at times and give them permission to express the same or just open up the conversation for them to share something that was maybe hard about their relationship. So as a parent, you can open up that dialogue or just allow for the space of it.

Colleen Montague 24:17

You know, maybe with a child, if their sibling was sick for a long time and spent a lot of time in the hospital we've heard from other families how hard that can be for the other siblings and so maybe you ask your child. You know, wow, how was that for you? I know it was really hard to spend your birthday in the hospital. I bet you don't miss that. I know you would take your sister back. I know you'd love to have her here, but I know I don't miss spending that much time in the hospital. That was really hard. And so just opening it up for those feelings to be okay, to lessen any shame that they might think about. You know, maybe they do feel a little relief of not having to be in the hospital so much with their sister now, but they would still want her back.

Brad Quillen 25:01

In regards to that open dialogue and conversation, Erin and Colleen, I think I've seen with kids over the years being here at the house that nervous energy inside of kiddos to ask a question about mom or dad or their brother or sister, because they're worried it's going to upset mom or dad. And so as much as we try and convey that as parents like it's okay to ask, it seems like if we show any emotion that just reinforces like I don't want to do that because I don't want mom to cry or I don't want dad to cry but we also need to model that emotion and that natural process and we miss them too. It's just so good for kids to know that there's that open door all the time for them to ask questions.

Erin Nelson 25:41

Yeah, I think there is just that opening and the openness to invite any question. I know something that Colleen and I have even talked about is sometimes kids want to say something like you know, the unfinished parts of life where they could say I really wish I wouldn't have said this.

Erin Nelson 26:06

I wish I wouldn't have done that. Maybe if I would have done this this wouldn't have happened. And how they can blame themselves and have some guilt and how jumping in with it's not your fault, just really quickly shutting that conversation down, can make a child less likely to come in, go to their parent with some of the guilt that they might be feeling.

Brad Quillen 26:33

That next time.

Erin Nelson 26:35

Right. So, as hard as it is, and this kind of goes along with the idea that it's so hard to see your child in pain, to reflect back to them like you kind of feel guilty. Right now it sounds like you're kind of feeling guilty. And to just let them express that and to continue to remind a child that there's nothing you could do or see that would cause someone to die, to cause their body to stop working right. Knowing that it's not their fault, but to invite all the questions that they might have and anytime they want to bring that up.

Erin Nelson 27:13

And you mentioned the tears and I think just that idea of when you do feel like crying and you may be hesitant to cry in front of your child, but letting those emotions out when they come up you know you can take the guesswork out of it.

Erin Nelson 27:29

If you feel like crying and it's just coming up for you, just letting that out, even if your child's there, it's okay to do that and to model that for your child, to not let any lag time go into the feeling what your body is needing to do. Because we've talked before about how crying, just the act of crying, is your body's way of just regulating itself and coming back to that kind of calm state that you need to cope with your loss. So it's really taking care of itself, right. So suppressing it in any way will cause more harm to your grief process. So just letting that be and crying in front of your child so that they have permission to let their body to regulate itself because our body is a resource that knows what it needs. So part of that feeling of crying is just your body's way of just coming back to finding relief, and so it's so important to not suppress that.

Brad Quillen 28:29

Not to get too clinical, but what I hear you saying is validate, don't correct, and what I mean by that is validate, don't correct, and what I mean by that is validate the feelings of the guilt, like you said. So you're feeling guilty, you feel guilty that you said that or misbehaved, or whatever the thing might be, rather than, oh, you're not at fault, right that, that correction.

Erin Nelson 28:47

Yeah, Just allowing them to express some of those hard, difficult emotions because we talk about how guilt and shame it's really part of the grief process lots of kids feel it a lot of adults feel it too, right and it's just part of that grief process and there's no way to get around that.

Erin Nelson 29:06

It's just allowing that to. I don't know it just like it almost has to just run its course. I think of these emotions as kind of coming up and like needing to burn out in some way. It's like they're there and you have to let them come into its own form and it will diminish over time. But if you try to suppress it, then it can't do that work of diminishing and to follow on that.

Colleen Montague 29:28

Aaron, you had also mentioned that after you let that process happen and that may happen over and over again you can then, once it's happened, follow up with a little bit of logic of there isn't anything that you said or did that caused their body to stop working. So bringing logic to it, but not correcting or diminishing the guilt or the questions that they're having. Bringing that up in dialogue and going there wondering with you know, let them wonder about it and reflect that back to them, but then finishing up the conversations with that logic piece that will help over time for them to wrap their mind around Because I think with kids sometimes they can be very illogical, the cause and effect that they think in their minds, and so that's one way to kind of keep that on course.

Brad Quillen 30:18

So there's some that are listening today that have kiddos that don't have memories, because we've been talking about those kiddos that had a relationship, but there might be some that they were really young when dad died, or brother or sister were really young. How do we help them make connections to those that have died, maybe through photos or even showing them where they grew up, in their childhood home, like their school, their elementary school? How do we help them connect to some of those pieces that will tell the story of who's died?

Colleen Montague 30:47

I like what you started with Brad is just sharing through stories. You know they don't have those memories themselves so you can share them with them. You know memories that you have of the person or memories you have of your person and your child together through photos. Or we even had a family once, have all the different family members and friends write a bunch of letters to the son to have and it was memories of his dad and so just to have a box full of memories. They aren't his, but over time they become his.

Colleen Montague 31:18

I think we've learned this especially with our families who have lost a child through miscarriage or stillbirth and the other siblings really don't have memories of you know their sibling, but you could ask you know about memories they may have of their mom pregnant, you know, or when they found out they were going to have a brother or sister, or memories around the birth perhaps. And then I love just back to what Erin always says just making space for that, wondering and wishing. You know, what do you? What do you think they would have been like? What were you, what were you hoping them to be as a little sister for you?

Erin Nelson 31:55

Yeah, I know in one of our groups that have it's a group for stillbirth and pregnancy loss and sometimes we just say, like what do you think your sibling would do with you right now if you were to play with them? Like what do you wish you could do with them? What do you wish that you? What would they think about Disneyland and you know wherever it is they're going? And sometimes if they're not there, we can just make up for it in imagination.

Brad Quillen 32:25

I think it's so neat when you go to a memorial service or a funeral and they ask people to write stories, because then it shares so many other eyeballs and stories of how they knew that person and some laughter moments, but sweet and tender moments too, that we as family or spouses or kids never knew some of the things the person who died did and some of the things that happened around that.

Colleen Montague 32:47

Or even through photos you know, asking friends or family to send you any pictures they may have of your spouse or your child that maybe you haven't seen or that your children haven't seen. That's another way. Just as those stories, those photos are a way of helping them to imagine or picture a memory of that person, what they may have been doing at that moment.

Brad Quillen 33:09

Okay, so we've been in groups for years and years between the three of us decades if we add it all up. What are some of those ways that you've heard other people talk about staying connected to that person who's died, and some of them in the beginning you might have been like that's a bit of a stretch, but after doing this work long enough, it all starts to make sense. But what are some of those that you guys have heard in groups?

Erin Nelson 33:30

I think about, just like ladybugs and dragonflies and one of my very favorites was someone who had an ice crystal in their window that looked like the person who died and when she compared it with her husband you could really see it and I just think like honoring any way that somebody feels connected, just like yes, you know, and just honoring that connection, but in so many ways, with nature, with flowers. I know something that means a lot to me are heart rocks and any kind of heart in nature, leaves and all of that.

Colleen Montague 34:19

Let them wonder, let them, whatever it is that they're connecting with, be there for it, rather than trying to impose logic, you know. Let that sign be meaningful to them Like, yes, rainbows come after the rain, but that is a sign from somebody for someone, and let that be what it is.

Erin Nelson 34:33

Yeah, exactly, and I'm just thinking about how just a special sunrise. We have friends whose daughter loved pink, and anytime we have a sunrise that has an extra bit of pink in it, I'll send them a photo. And so it's just Christmas morning this year, it was so pink on Christmas morning and I just thought, oh, it just reminded me of their daughter so much and so, and it could be even wind that kind of comes out of nowhere. Maybe some lightning, a shooting star, a sunset.

Brad Quillen 35:08

One family once said that when they see leaves falling from a tree, just as it floats, that reminds them of their son, because he would just kind of float through life. And so I, after that group, I can remember looking at leaves a little differently just as their son would float through life.

Brad Quillen 35:23

And my mom has often said that any time that the phone rings at her house just one time maybe it's a telemarketer or something went wrong or something that it's her mom just let her know that she's there. And this has been something for nearly 30 years in our family that we've talked about that grandma will just call and hang up and so but that's something that's been very true over the years in our family.

Colleen Montague 35:45

Yeah, even just like numbers. I heard so much about the power of numbers for people and whether they're sequential numbers. We've heard of angel numbers with 333, 444, 111, or 134 represents I love you. Maybe even seeing their birthdates or anniversaries, special dates, in number form on the clock. Those can be very anchoring for some and definitely feel like a sign.

Erin Nelson 36:13

Flickering lights. After Carter died we had a door that opened kind of with the wind and we all, like looked at each other like Carter, there you are, and yeah, or even a smell

Brad Quillen 36:27

Yeah, colognes, I've heard a lot.

Erin Nelson 36:29

Right, yeah, where you're just like, oh, I just smelled that and then maybe you want to follow that scent in some way.

Brad Quillen 36:35

One family mentioned that every time it rains it reminds us that the sadness, but then that the sun comes back out that there's laughter in the stories and the joy of who they were, and so I thought that was always pretty clever.

Erin Nelson 36:48

I really, really just appreciate all the ways that you can connect with your loved one, and it really matters.

Brad Quillen 36:56

Because that relationship continues. Thank you so much, Erin and Colleen, for being with me today. For those of you listening, be sure to visit jessicashouse. org for more grief resources and if you have any other topics or questions you'd like us to cover on this podcast, we welcome your email at info@ jessicashouse. org. Be sure to join us next time for another episode of When Grief Comes Home. Until then, we wish you well.

Gary Shriver 37:22

Jessica's House is a children's bereavement center located in California's central Valley. Since 2012, we provide free peer support for children, teens, young adults and their families grieving a loss. The When Grief Comes Home podcast goes along with the book of the same name. The book When Grief Comes Home is a gentle guide for parents who are grieving a partner or child while helping their children through the loss of their parent or sibling. When Grief Comes Home is now available at all major book retailers and if you need grief-related support, please visit jessicashouse. org to download our free resources and be sure to follow Jessica's House on social media. If you have any questions or topics that you'd like us to explore in a future episode, just send us an email to info at jessicashouse. org. Thank you for joining us and we'll see you next time for When Grief Comes Home.