Growth After Loss

Welcome to the When Grief Comes Home podcast. We're glad you're here. This podcast supports parents who are grieving a spouse, partner, or child while helping their children who are living through the loss of a parent or sibling. With personal grief stories and professional guidance, we offer parents practical tips for supporting their child who is grieving while caring for their own grief. 

What if the only way out of the storm is through it—and what if that path could widen your life? Erin and Colleen explore how leaning into grief, rather than outrunning it, can open doors to strength, empathy, deeper relationships, and a renewed sense of meaning. This isn’t about silver linings. It’s about honest pain, real support, and the surprising growth that can follow when we feel, speak, and share our losses.

We unpack post‑traumatic growth through five research‑backed domains—personal strength, closeness with others, new possibilities, appreciation of life, and spiritual or existential expansion. Erin and Colleen bring this to life with stories from families and kids, from the teen who finally opened up after being asked “What’s one thing you want me to know about your dad?” to parents who learned that modeling emotions teaches children that big feelings are survivable. You’ll hear practical tools you can use today: letting waves of grief crest and recede, breathing and bilateral movement, journaling or voice notes, nighttime “dosing” strategies to protect rest, and building a circle of trustworthy helpers so you don’t carry this alone.

We also talk about keeping bonds alive. As Dr. Alan Wolfelt teaches, death ends a life, not a relationship. Bringing your person into everyday moments—“What would Mom think of this?”—can lighten the body and soften the day. And we’ll be honest about avoidance: when we stuff feelings, they leak into our bodies and behaviors. Turning toward pain gently, with support, lets healing do its quiet work. Grief may never end because love never ends, but a larger, kinder life is possible.

If this conversation helps, share it with someone who needs it, subscribe for future episodes, and leave a rating and review so others can find the show. For free grief resources or peer support, visit jessicashouse.org, and email topic ideas to info@jessicashouse.org.

Order the book When Grief Comes Home https://a.co/d/ijaiP5L

For more information on Jessica’s House or for additional resources, please go to jessicashouse.org 

Transcript

Welcome & Purpose of the Series

Gary Shriver 0:00

Hello, and welcome to When Grief Comes Home, a podcast dedicated to parents living through loss while supporting their child. Let's meet the team.

Erin Nelson 0:10

I'm Erin Nelson, Founding Executive Director at Jessica's House.

Colleen Montague 0:14

Hi, I'm Colleen Montague, Program Director for Jessica's House and a Licensed Marriage and Family Therapist.

Gary Shriver 0:21

Hi, I'm Brad Quillen, and I'm the host of When Grief Comes Home. This podcast goes along with the book of the same name. The book When Grief Comes Home is a gentle guide for parents who are grieving a partner or child while helping their children through the loss of their parent or sibling. When Grief Comes Home is now available at all major book retailers. Now let's go to the team as they share grief resources and coping skills, heartfelt stories and insights to support parents as they raise children who are grieving. Together, you'll find strength as we learn to live with loss and find ways to heal. h

Naming the Storm: Grief and Resistance

Brad Quillen 1:01

Hello, hello. It's Brad from Jessica's House. Today we're talking about the importance of walking into the storm of grief rather than running from it. We're also exploring how grief can become a pathway to unexpected growth and renewed purpose. Well, hello, Erin and Colleen. It's good to be with you guys again, and I'm glad we're talking about this idea of post-traumatic growth. I know just from the intro of what people just heard, some people are like, I don't want to talk about this. I'm not there. I don't want to be there. I didn't want to be here because I'm listening to this podcast because someone's died. But it's a need and something we need to talk about. But Erin, I want to just ask you, as you kind of look back over your life, you see this in different places and different seasons. We've seen this here at Jessica's House as people have come to Jessica's House and spent time here. But what would you say to that person that's just hesitant to even continue listening to this podcast episode?

Erin Nelson 1:59

Well, as we're kind of starting today, um, just talking about how we do need to really go into that grief process in order to heal. And um, there's no way around we have to go through. Yeah. So that's kind of a hard place to be. And I remember just thinking to myself, like, I don't want to be sad.

Brad Quillen 2:22

Yeah.

Choosing to Feel vs. Avoidance

Erin Nelson 2:22

You know, just there's this kind of gravity of knowing that you have to face such a long, arduous kind of path of being sad and feeling all these feelings of grief, learning to live without this person in your life that was so important to you. And it's just so difficult to be in that space of just welcoming. It's not even sometimes you're like, well, I don't want to welcome it, but just even being in it, being with those feelings and doing that hard work of just letting grief be what it is and letting it in and not trying to run away from it. And I think that's what we're really talking about today is that we're making a conscious choice to be with our grief and not to push it away. Not that we don't take a break from it.

Brad Quillen 3:20

Correct.

Erin Nelson 3:20

And not that there are times that we may not have the capacity. I like to say sometimes that, you know, um, especially with grief when you have trauma, like there may be some things that you just need a break from and where you, you know, like for me, I'll listen to a book in the night if I wake up and I'm having a really difficult time, you know. And so there are times when I just say, I can't really welcome all of my grief right now because I really need to rest. But um, just being when we have a habit and we're always running away from grief, it really can delay our healing.

Brad Quillen 3:58

I had one mom say years and years ago, I don't want to learn, I don't want to grow, I just want my husband back.

Erin Nelson 4:04

Absolutely.

Brad Quillen 4:04

Something to that effect. I it was years ago, but I that still stands out to me. I just want my husband back. I don't want any of this. What you just said, I don't want to welcome this in. No. This ugly hardness.

Erin Nelson 4:13

Yeah, we don't want to welcome it in. And it's just so daunting to think about needing to do the work of it. So it's just a it's a tough thing.

Brad Quillen 4:24

And for those that are listening, a lot of them have kids and they're still working and they're trying to process through all this, and it's like, well, how how do I go through this? There's so many other things going on.

Erin Nelson 4:36

Yeah, and that's the wild thing is that life continues to go on. Everybody still needs to eat, you still have to go to the grocery store, laundry, all the things, right? Laundry, laundry, and then the kids still need their immunizations or whatever it is. They need to go get their checkups, and so that whole life schedule is still still there, and there are so many demands, and then grief is another demand, really, that is really begging to be noticed and um to be with.

Brad Quillen 5:11

I think it's fair to say some listening might say, I don't have that in me right now. Just that as you're talking about some there's so many other things that I gotta do.

Post‑Traumatic Growth: Hope After Hurt

Erin Nelson 5:19

Yeah, and I think what we know is that grief takes a form of its own. It really does just take over. And so it isn't something that you know we have to actively like look for. It's really coming towards us. And so it's really in the being with it that is um what helps us to heal.

Brad Quillen 5:44

Aaron, you and I've talked before and uh even around Jessica's House with the staff and and different folks, that as you look back at your life and your story, you can see those moments of of growth that have come from grief. Can you just share with those that are listening today about some of those seasons and as you look back at your life, how those came to be?

Erin Nelson 6:04

Yeah, I think when I look back and my seasons of grief, I as we've been talking, it's you don't really want to be in the grief, but what I found is if I just let myself just be with it, that whatever is coming and whatever kind of memory I need to be with or feeling I need to be with, and all of that grief process just helps us integrate. And I think over time, what I learned is as I was able to grieve, then um just as as time went on, I noticed that there was some growth. And so this is really an invitation to maybe have compassion in places that I was never really aware of before. I didn't think about even as I thought think about now, just whether that is someone who lost a husband or having a mom who died when I was young. All of those losses led me to more compassion for other people. And that's really what we're talking about today, is that we're introducing this idea of post-traumatic growth and what can happen when you are with your grief process and you're not trying to run from it, you have the support that you need, you're able to express what you're going through, and you are, even though you don't know it, you're healing. And as we heal, there's this expansion that can happen. And as we have support, and what we know at Jessica's House is that the research really shows that when children have support and when they can express what they're going through, they're more likely to experience what we call post-traumatic growth. And we will be talking about kind of what that looks like. But I think when I think about my own story and the losses that I've had, it's something that I noticed has just naturally happened and emerged in my own life. And it really kind of comes from an invitation to have more compassion in certain areas and to want to come alongside others and um to just find strength that I didn't know I had that was inside of me that could only really be uncovered by the pain of grief.

Despair, Hope, and the Metamorphosis

Colleen Montague 8:47

Yeah, so I think with this conversation today, you know, the idea is that you can be left with hope for what can be in time. You know, but like Erin said, that that has to come. It it will only come after being with your grief.

Brad Quillen 9:03

Aaron, there's a lot of words we use when we're in grief and despair, heartache, hurt, loss. And people are listening going, how in the world do those kind of defining words lead to the possibility of hope or even growth?

Erin Nelson 9:18

Yeah. It's interesting that the word despair comes from this word spurar, which means to hope. And it is this paradox where we have hope, and so many uh so much of the time in grief, hope can feel so out of reach. And yet, you know, that despair and being there in just grief and that heartache and all of those feelings of grief and the longing for your life the way it was before, as you're there and as you process your grief, it really does open up the doorway to hope.

Colleen Montague 9:59

Renee Brown has said, we run from grief because loss scares us, yet our hearts reach toward grief because the broken parts want to mend. And so just that kind of tug-a-war in a way with it that we are afraid of it, but we also know we need to lean into it. It's just part of that process.

Erin Nelson 10:20

Yeah, it's so true. And I heard a story about a classroom where this teacher had the cocoons and they were waiting for the butterflies to emerge. And the kids were so excited that um they really wanted to like kind of take a little bit of the cocoon off and just to like make the process go a little, speed it up a little. Let's get a butterfly. And so they just took this little one part off and just shortchanged that process a little bit. And because of that, the butterflies didn't fully develop their wings. And so, if you think about just you know, metamorphosis, this idea of transformation, there's no shortchanging this process of grief. We have to go through it, or else we do risk emerging too soon and not having the fullness of our healing. And so, what we know in all of the stories that we've seen at Jessica's House that um, you know, we need to heal. Um, and that does not come from avoiding our pain, but gently encountering our pain.

Colleen Montague 11:32

That reminds me, Erin, the same process is true for animals hatching out of an egg. I just was thinking of baby chicks, and you feel so bad for them when they're trying to hatch. It looks like so much work. Struggle. It's struggle, and we naturally in our society, we want to avoid pain and help others avoid pain or or struggle or discomfort. And so, yeah, we've been tempted to help break that shell off to help that little chick get out quicker. But so much strength is found and developed for that chick as they have to emerge on their own and use their strength. And it takes a little bit of time and a lot of bit of work.

What “Walking Into It” Looks Like

Erin Nelson 12:12

But yeah, it's true. It's so true. And whether it's a butterfly or a baby chick, we know that even buffalo, they um survive a storm by actually walking into it. And I know we've said this before on our podcast, it's really um what families have taught us, it's really going into the darkness that you find that sunrise. And so just whether you're it's a buffalo and you know, they're facing that storm and they're walking towards it, they're gonna get out of it so much quicker than walking with it and you know, trying to run away from it.

Brad Quillen 12:49

So let me ask you this because I agree with you both that we're a pain avoidance uh culture and at all costs, right, avoid it. There's some that are in the middle of the storm or the storm just hit, and I agree with Dr. Wolfelf, who says you gotta walk through it, you can't go around it, can't go over it, can't go under it, right? But what is a step towards going into that pain look like? And for everybody I know it's different, but just just what are some thoughts that you guys have on what does that step into versus around look like?

Erin Nelson 13:19

I think the step into is being with the feelings that are coming. And so much of the time, and I can just speak from my own experience of grief, times that I just felt it coming in. And that whole idea of waves, which I know is an analogy that we hear so much, it really is just allowing the wave of grief to be there and to gently kind of confront that wave and say, Okay, here you are, and I'm gonna feel this right now, and I'm going to allow this to be whatever it is because grief is very wild, there is no controlling it or trying to, you know, direct it in some way. It's there, you have to be with it, and um, as we've said, you know, so much of the time, it also has that cadence, right, of the building peaking and receding. So I think what we've learned is we can trust the process, it helps it not feel so daunting and scary to really trust that we have what we need to encounter our grief and that as we do that, we are healing like every time we let it, you know, in and every time we express it out. It's just like we're just healing a little bit more and a little bit more. And if you could just, I'm here in the studio just kind of putting my hands out because it really is about expansion, and we're growing, even though we don't see it maybe, but there's something really important going on in our process and in our soul. That's you know what Victor Frankel really talked about was with his work with um the survivors in um the concentration camps, is that it was the enlargement of their souls that he noticed, but that only came through suffering.

Brad Quillen 15:19

From that dark. Erin, you just mentioned trying to control it. And I know a lot of times I sat in groups and I think of the word control where people would push it away or stuff it.

Erin Nelson 15:30

Mm-hmm. Mm-hmm.

Brad Quillen 15:31

And that never seemed to work.

Leaks, Bodies, and Unhealthy Escapes

Erin Nelson 15:32

Yeah. It will leak. I mean, you will leak, right? It's just like there's no way to stuff it. It will come out, it comes out in your body, you know. We've you know, heard it's like the headaches and the stomach aches and all kinds of muscle pain and whatever it might be, it will leak into you in some way or out in an unhealthy way, or seeking escaping pain in a way that isn't long-term healthy with over-drinking, overeating, over-exercising, whatever it might be. So there are so many ways um that we can really harm ourselves if we're um trying to go around it.

Brad Quillen 16:18

Yeah, it's that idea of you know, you you wanna you're on going on a trip, you don't want to pay the baggage fee, so you slam every single thing you can into your carry-on.

Erin Nelson 16:26

I've never done that before.

Brad Quillen 16:29

But at some point, this zipper breaks on this thing, right? Right? Because we're just stuffing and stuffing more and more. And instead of dealing with those things, we see the the explosion of grief with some people from time to time.

Erin Nelson 16:44

Oh, absolutely.

Colleen Montague 16:45

Yeah, I've I've been with parents in my group um on their first night here, and they've said, you know, that they haven't really dealt with their grief yet, they'll say, and it's been a couple years, but by looking at them, you would think the loss had just happened. And so I think it's an interesting truth that it's there waiting for you.

Erin Nelson 17:08

It's so true. It's there waiting for you. And I think when we're kind of talking about is that if we don't go into it and you know, as it's waiting for us, we're shortchanging ourselves, right? Because what do we know about post-traumatic growth is that it really does create space for wisdom, right? We are gaining wisdom, we're gaining strength, we're gaining empathy, and so we will not grow in those ways if we shortchange this process of grief. So that's where kind of when we're getting in a circle with our parents and you know, here at Jessica's House, we're just offering an invitation to come and encounter your grief in a gentle way that's hopefully as safe as we can make it to just enter into that space and really talk about that.

Colleen Montague 18:04

I wanted to add, Erin, you mentioned earlier how sleep is hard for you, but it's so important. And so you have given you of all people, you are very good at honoring your grief and you let it be there when it's there. But you've also learned that sleep is a necessity for you. And so you've given yourself the permission to put try to put yourself back to sleep when when grief comes up in the middle of the night, you say, Not right now. I need to rest, and you put on a book or some music. And so I respect that that when you say, Brad, we can't stuff it away or control it. But there are moments where it is okay if you can't deal with it for that moment. The important part is that you do go back to it. Yes, you come back to it.

Growth Costs: Wisdom, Strength, Empathy

Erin Nelson 18:52

And we've talked about that concept in the past where you know, you know, if you went to a doctor and he prescribed medication, you wouldn't he did, he's not going to say or she go home and take all of this medication. And um, because he would say, just, you know, take one and then the next day take another one. And so grief has a natural way of dosing us. And you know, and there are parts of grief like that can go into trauma, and that's another part of our grief many times that we might need a break from. And that's kind of where those coping skills come in. I know for me, as I had imagery about, you know, the even just the way the person died or whatever it might be, anchoring my brain outside of myself with a book or a story really helped me with all of those pieces because I could replace images with a story. And so giving myself a break from just the depth of kind of trauma really does help. And even if I was still feeling sad and I was still feeling all of the grief, giving myself a break from kind of the traumatic memories was really helpful for me. And um, and so yeah, just the dosing ourselves along the way.

Brad Quillen 20:14

Colleen, I'm I'm glad you clarified because yeah, my analogy is that we stuff it and we never go back to it, right? We have a lot we we've seen that for years here at the house. So, with that clarity, I'm gonna put my teacher student hat on because we keep using this word post these words post-traumatic growth, but what do we mean by that? Like, how do we help those that are listening kind of understand what we mean with some of the ideas behind that? We say post-traumatic growth, post-traumatic growth. So, what are some of those thoughts?

Colleen Montague 20:40

So we've all heard of post-traumatic stress disorder. And if somebody experiences a really traumatic event, it can turn into post-traumatic stress disorder, you know, if they don't get the resources they need to be able to work through that. And so post-traumatic growth is a newer uh concept that's being talked about in research, and it's the opposite. You go through something really traumatic, but if you get the support and the resources you need at the time, instead of it going one way, it can turn into the other. It can become a source of growth on the other side. And that is what we are striving to support our children and families through at Jessica's house. And it's what, you know, we're hoping to encourage our listeners with today.

Erin Nelson 21:31

Yeah, and it really kind of is steeped in this research from Tedesky and Calhoun. And it um they identified five areas of um of kind of transformation that can happen after someone experiences a traumatic event. And the first one um is personal strength, and that really is just discovering this um the capabilities that you didn't even know you had. And so this is just identifying strength. And, you know, we hear at Jessica's House where we might be in the hospital room, which we have a hospital playroom for children, and we might hear a child say, you know, my dad died of cancer, and I I really want to um be a researcher someday.

Brad Quillen 22:16

Yeah.

The Five Domains of PTG

Erin Nelson 22:16

And um, and they're just identifying kind of like this strength that they may not have had, that they have this desire, like maybe to go into the medical field and become part of the solution, right? And then also just with this peer support, and as we come alongside others, we have this deeper relatability, we have more connection, we can just naturally, like we've said, it's like we have more empathy with other people. It also leads to an openness to new possibilities. And so maybe we were, because we all see the world in one way more linear, right? But after a big traumatic event or you're grieving over something, you um notice these opportunities that you never saw before. It really reorders your priorities in your life, and it's a time that you've actually had to stop your regular everyday life, and you're just seeing the world in a totally new way. So it's you start thinking like, hmm, what else is possible?

Brad Quillen 23:26

Yeah, Erin, I hear you saying that, and it makes me think to numerous, numerous people over the years that made made them go, I really kind of saw what was important after I've walked through this and as I've walked and continue to walk in grief.

Meaning, Faith, and Both‑And Living

Erin Nelson 23:38

Yeah, definitely. We just have a total reorganization of many times it could be spirituality, it could be just appreciating, and that was actually the number four is this greater life appreciation, where people are like, you know, I only cared about this maybe one hobby or my work or something like this, and it's like now, you know, I've lost a child and my other two kids are my number one priority. So I'm going to make life decisions to, you know, do something different. But, you know, just valuing those moments and those relationships more deeply and whatever that might be, it's almost like just I can speak from my own experience, really looking at what is and just being so grateful for what is when you used to kind of see what isn't. And so all of a sudden it's like where you're really can sit with what do you have right now? And you know, I remember after one of the losses that I was grieving, I was just actually helping in church um teach kids. And I just thought just looking at kids and appreciating just what a gift kids are. I just remember having these moments of just looking at their little hands and sitting with them and just having such a greater appreciation, just that we have kids in our lives and that um what all that they bring to us. And I remember just in the littlest things of life or just seeing a tree or a flower or whatever it is, it's just like, oh, like here we are, and we get to see the beauty of the world in a new way, and maybe we've never seen that before. And you know, a song is much more powerful than it ever was. It's like we hear it and we're like, oh my gosh, I never even heard that message before. And it just it's like it can just like add a whole new dimension to the beauty of the world and what we already have. And maybe we were just kind of going along in life and not really even appreciating some of what is that was right in front of us, that was right in front of us, and then also the um last factor that they really identified from those who were experiencing this post-traumatic growth is that spiritual growth, and it's really just that expanded um sense of meaning and connection, and so just adding more meaning to your life work or maybe something you want to do, and there are just all kinds of ways that um it's very such an important part of our healing and grief is that we are making meaning, and sometimes we have to hold both of those at the same time because there are times when I'll say, Well, you know, this is just one example, you know, Tyler died, and then you know, I met another person, Brian, and I had two other kids. And sometimes I'll say to myself, like, you know, if Tyler wouldn't have died, I wouldn't have I wouldn't have Brian, I wouldn't have had Carter or Camille, and that's a weird thing to say, yeah, right? But can I sit in that in the both and I was grieving Tyler and we never wanted him to die, and it's so hard all of those pieces to grieve over him and for the kids to grow up without their dad, and there was more beauty to embrace in this world having met Brian and just this relationship that we've built. We've been married almost 30 years now, and you know, this life that I can embrace with him, yeah, and the children that we can enjoy together. And it's um, yeah, it's just such a it's such a like it's hard to do even describe how you can hold both of these, you know, these parts of life, the tragedy and the beauty all at once.

Brad Quillen 27:48

Yeah. I was gonna ask you guys before we go to break, because we're gonna come back and talk about supporting kids and that idea of that post-traumatic growth for them to help them in those seasons. But the other thing we've said, and I don't want to lose sight of it as we keep saying support or help or resource, but what are some of those ways that when we talk about here at the house, we kind of say that a lot and we kind of know what we're talking about for those of listening calling, what does that look like for someone that's in sorrow and loss and pain, like resource help, supports? What are some of those things?

Colleen Montague 28:17

The biggest one is to not do it alone, you know, to hold your grief with others and people that can really be there with you when it gets dark and heavy. Um, family or friends, mental health support, peer support groups, other other people who are holding a similar loss to you, who can understand you. We talk a lot about different coping skills or resources to help get you through those moments. Like Erin said, you know, when you can really sit in that moment, but you know it won't last forever, but you need some things to help you through it, you know. So the breathing, the swaying back and forth, walking, bilateral movements, all the things we've been talking about and expressing your grief authentically, just being honest and true. And whether that's, you know, writing it out in a journal or sharing it with somebody over the phone or next to you, just being in it and being real and opening yourself up to that process.

Brad Quillen 29:17

And I know for some people it starts out small, Erin. I remember you talking years ago about finding connection with someone through one of the first books you ever read on grief. And it could be this podcast for someone or even the book that this podcast came from when when grief comes home, right? And so sometimes it starts small and then we start branching out and asking for help from others.

Support That Actually Helps

Colleen Montague 29:37

Yeah, and I think in time, you know, service to others or supporting others can happen too. We've just said before, and we'll say it again, just caution you not to jump into that too quickly. You know, that meaning making or that advocacy that you will be a better version of yourself and a better support to others. If you do your work first. You know, but in time, you know, we've seen that with our families. After they support themselves first and uh start to find their healing, then they become facilitators here at Jessica's house. And it's a wonderful progression, but it has to, it has to happen after you've you've supported yourself.

Erin Nelson 30:20

It's so exciting to watch that and especially seeing kids who have become volunteers for us. And just as they've done their work over years and years, they can come and we're gonna have a special guest in a couple weeks um to have somebody who was their very first child in our program and is now um wanting to do this work of helping others someday. And she's been a youth ambassador and also a volunteer with us and um an intern, and so it's really exciting. So just watching that is really amazing. But I also love what you're seeing, Colleen. It's like can't happen too fast. No hurry with that. But when it feels authentic to you to go into that space.

Gary Shriver 31:22

We provide free peer support for children, teens, young adults, and their families grieving a loss. The When Grief Comes Home podcast goes along with the book of the same name. The book When Grief Comes Home is a gentle guide for parents who are grieving a partner or child while helping their children through the loss of their parent or sibling. When Grief Comes Home is now available at all major book retailers. And if you need grief-related support, please visit jessica'shouse.org to download our free resources and be sure to follow Jessica's House on social media. If you have any questions or topics that you'd like us to explore in a future episode, just send us an email to info at jessicashouse.org.

Brad Quillen 32:07

Well, welcome back after that brief break, and we're going to continue talking about post-traumatic growth, but with our kiddos. And so Colleen, Aaron, how do we help adults, parents, those that are raising kiddos that have had a loss and and are walking through grief, see that light at the end of the tunnel?

Break & Resource Reminders

Colleen Montague 32:27

We talked before the break about the different ways that you can help yourself through those moments. And the same will be true for your kids. You know, we want to help them to learn the coping skills that feel the best for them to get through those tough moments. That will is done through modeling. That's, you know, practicing those things together when they don't need them. So it's something that's familiar to use when they do need it. Surrounding them with supportive people, you know, you can't be all and everything for your kids, you know, before even a death. You know, we can't be everything for our kids. We need those other people in our life that can help um bring that support and wisdom to them as well. And so, you know, maybe do you have people in your life that you trust that can help, you know, support your children with their grief, mental health support for them, peer support groups, just what we see happen here at Jessica's house with the kids being together and holding those experiences is just so powerful. Um, but I would definitely say that a big part of your child being able to achieve post-traumatic growth is a lot of what they're gonna watch you doing in your healing.

Let Kids Feel, Then Lighten

Erin Nelson 33:49

Yeah, and as they are grieving, be aware of as a parent, so much of the time we do want to protect them from pain. And so just like we are talking about not avoiding the pain, but walking into the pain, be aware that it's okay if they have questions or they're really mad or they need to go into that deep grief, and as they have that time to just see like what does it feel like when they emerge from that? I know we've had kids say, like, when I finally cried, I felt so much lighter. And all of the analogies, and I know Colleen, you were just saying, just you know, just even as darkness comes before the light, we feel that lightness in our bodies when we go into the darkness. And so there's nothing like that feeling after a good cry or after expressing anger, or after just um really telling your biggest fear about what might happen next. That feeling of relief that we find and for kids, they need to experience that and not have that process shortchanged. And so, and it's hard for us as parents to just allow that to be.

Colleen Montague 35:08

Yeah, there's a there's a parenting quote that I like, which is more is caught than taught. And so we can speak these words of you know, wisdom, and it's okay to cry, and you know, you can talk to me about it or express yourself, but they're watching you too. And when they see you actually crying or see you actually expressing yourself, that is the best form of modeling for them.

Brad Quillen 35:35

I think one of the things I learned early, early on when we first opened Jessica's House, Erin, was that kids would come together and they realized they weren't the only one. And so if you can help your kiddos understand that at work or whatever your day looks like as an adult, that grief still pops up all throughout the day or creeps in, whatever word we want to use there. And that sometimes we can't deal with it right then in that moment, but we have to get uh come back to it. Or we do take 10 minutes to kind of just process and write down some thoughts. But if you can help your kiddo know even as an adult, you know, you have those those thoughts pop up or those grief feelings, those emotions pop into your body that they're they think they're the only one in their school or that is uh in the family that is having as many feelings flood their emotions all day at school, or as soon as they get home, you walk in and you see all the things that aren't the same anymore.

Questions That Open Doors

Erin Nelson 36:29

Yeah, Brad. And you know, it makes me think about the kids we've seen at Jessica's House. And I was just thinking about a teen boy that came in um who had lost um his dad and how you were working with him, and you guys would go for walks together, and he'd have his hoodie all the way over his face. And I'll never forget this question that you asked him one time after he didn't really want to really talk about his dad or do any of the art or do any of the things he didn't want to be with his peers and group and all of that, and then you just asked that simple question of like, Well, what would you want me to know about your dad? Yeah, and that was what he needed. And he started there by just being able to tell that story about what his dad was like, because no one had asked him that question yet. And so letting him start where he needed to start, and then well, like what what happened? Like, what did you see in him?

Brad Quillen 37:35

Yeah, so I think I just stumbled upon that, and I've taught that to dozens and I don't know, hundreds of volunteers here. If if you get froze in a question, just always ask, what's the one thing you'd want me to know? Like let them introduce you to them because I was never gonna meet his dad. And so you're you're right, he he would sit in group, not participate. We'd walk from time to time. Um, but yeah, he was just kind of closed off. And that time that I just happened to say, Hey, what do you want me to know? It was like he goes and opened up and started talking.

Erin Nelson 38:05

And so What did you notice in him just as time went on, just about his appearance and how he changed?

Keeping Bonds: “Death Ends a Life…”

Brad Quillen 38:14

Yeah, so when he would come back, I would just say, Hey, what's what's something else you'd want me to know? And so over time, he just started to express more and more the hood came down. He came to a place after a few months where he wasn't wearing hoodies to kind of hide in a sense, I guess. Um, but just more of him and his story came out. It came out behind the cover of this is what I want you to know about my dad. And then I would just pick up on, well, tell me about a funny time when that when something like that happened, and then next thing you know, it just kept leading into different stories and conversations to where he was just then just letting all those feelings out. I honestly don't remember, it was over 10 years ago if he started to do the art and some of the other things that we do here in the house, but it was just a conversation with everybody.

Erin Nelson 38:58

It was the connection he needed to feel connected and he needed to express something in his own way.

Colleen Montague 39:07

And so, you know, for our parents that are listening, the message there is to like ask your kids questions, you know, and keep talking about their person. You know, when we I know that we don't want to make people sad, and sometimes we think that we will if we bring it up, but every it's on top of mind for everybody already. So ask the questions, you know, or bring up a memory. Oh, remember when that happened? Or like we've said before many times, just bring that person into the present moment, you know. Oh, I wonder what dad would have thought of that.

Erin Nelson 39:37

Yeah, I just I don't think that they ever get tired of that. They want to talk about him, they are thinking about them, and to just continue to even ask questions that maybe you weren't part of some conversations and maybe you weren't um, you know, on that little trip to the grocery store that they took, or so there may be a lot that one parent may not know. And even with the sibling, what do they talk about in their bunk beds and at night? And so there may be some things you can even discover about the person who died that um even just asking some of those questions that just that come alongside, kind of like Brad did. It's just that connection that can really help. And those are all little ways and that help them to express. And every time we're just kind of inching closer to that just expansion and that post-traumatic growth that can happen.

Brad Quillen 40:33

It reminds me of Dr. Alan Wolfelt, this conversation where he he said early on, one of the first things I ever learned from was though death may end a life, it doesn't end a relationship. So see it as it's not it's not closed, you know, but it's ongoing, it's forever. They're always your dad, they're always your brother, they're always your sister, your mom, your aunt, whoever, you know, died.

Normalize Ongoing Conversation

Erin Nelson 40:53

You know, I just heard someone say that, and it's it's a concept I've never heard before, but that they were in some ways less lonely because that physical presence that they used to have came and went, but that now they felt them always with them. And it was just such a different concept of this idea that there was there's that person, and you know, kind of them being dead weirdly, transcends kind of time and space. So now it's like they could really feel their presence with them instead of kind of like, and it was just kind of one of those things, but that relationship is still there. It's like you feel like they are right there, and you can kind of bring them up, you know, in your memory. And um, but yeah, just to have a different relationship.

Colleen Montague 41:43

And like every relationship you have to nurture. Yes. And so you're gonna continue to nurture your relationship, it just looks different now. But you can still do that.

Erin Nelson 41:54

Yeah, I've heard parents say they're still parenting their child who's no longer alive. It's they're nurturing every time they think about them, they're still parenting them, they're still thinking about them, they're still nurturing them, they're taking just as much space up to the kids who are alive because, you know, they're still nurturing that relationship and all the joy they brought them and all that they were to them.

Brad Quillen 42:21

As we talk about this, I just want to give a thought to the parents that are listening that a lot of people don't do well with asking these kind of questions about, well, tell me about your dad, or or keep that ongoing. That a lot of times people feel uncomfortable asking some of those. So just want to encourage parents that not to put any more pressure on you, but these are some of those conversations that really only we can have that are kind of walking through the grief thing because our culture is awkward avoidance, pain avoidance, right? And so even hard conversations sometimes we just would rather not, and we'll just move on to a different topic.

Colleen Montague 42:52

And I would say that's so true, and I've heard that from parents. I've also heard that once they start, it becomes less awkward, it becomes more routine and normal, if you will. Yeah. And so it's just about getting over that hurdle of like how to, you know, what is it gonna look like now? What what is what's our relationship gonna look like as a family with this person who's missing? But once you get past that and you just show what it is, you know, we're gonna keep nurturing it, we're going to keep talking about them, that it becomes a lot easier for them.

Erin Nelson 43:25

And also as you are helping to help others support you, I really like what what one of our moms said is like, and I like talking about them. Just to give people that might feel awkward just the permission that you're seeing, I like talking about them. And so it helps them to know, yeah, bring them up. Yeah. And, you know, do whatever it is, what would they think of this full moon right now or whatever it might be. You're bringing them into the present moment and so continuing to nurture that relationship.

Brad Quillen 43:59

And it's in all those little things too. It is not just the big, right? Because then it feels like it's a little more taboo to bring it up, but it's in all the little aspects of life and the the small.

Erin Nelson 44:09

It sure is.

Closing Reflections & Review Request

Brad Quillen 44:10

You know, as we close up our time here today, Erin and Colleen, it just makes me think that your grief will never end because your love never ends. Well, again, Erin and Colleen, thanks for this time today to talk about this issue of post-traumatic growth. Erin, I know there's something you wanted to share with our listeners today as we wrap up this podcast. Why don't you go ahead and take a moment?

Erin Nelson 44:32

Just as our listeners have given us really great feedback, I just want to say if you could just take a moment to rate our podcast and also write a review. It helps get it into the hands of those who need it most. And so every time you review a podcast, it goes up a little bit into ratings. And so if somebody just types in grief in a podcast search, they can find this podcast. And as we know that it's been so helpful for parents who are grieving, we want to get it into more hands. So please rate and review.

Final Resources & Contact Info

Brad Quillen 45:09

Thanks, Erin. And let me remind you: be sure to visit jessicashouse.org for more grief resources. And if you have any other topics or questions you'd like us to cover on this podcast, we welcome your email at info at jessicashouse.org. Be sure to join us for the next episode of When Grief Comes Home. Until then, we wish you well.

Gary Shriver 45:31

Jessica's House is a children's bereavement center located in California's Central Valley since 2012. We provide free peer support for children, teens, young adults, and their families grieving a loss. The When Grief Comes Home podcast goes along with the book of the same name. The book When Grief Comes Home is a gentle guide for parents who are grieving a partner or child while helping their children through the loss of their parent or sibling. When Grief Comes Home is now available at all major book retailers. And if you need grief-related support, please visit jessicashouse.org to download our free resources and be sure to follow Jessica's House on social media. If you have any questions or topics that you'd like us to explore in a future episode, just send us an email to info at jessicashouse.org. Thank you for joining us, and we'll see you next time for When Grief Comes Home.