Growing Through Loss

Welcome to the When Grief Comes Home podcast. We're glad you're here. This podcast supports parents who are grieving a spouse, partner, or child while helping their children who are living through the loss of a parent or sibling. With personal grief stories and professional guidance, we offer parents practical tips for supporting their child who is grieving while caring for their own grief. 

A four-year-old finds her dad gone one morning, and that moment reshapes the rest of her life. Audrey joins us to share how childhood loss became a compass—through awkward school projects, the hush that follows “my dad died,” and the everyday pangs that hit when a dashboard light turns on and there’s no one to call. Her story moves from memory and faith to the practical tools—children’s books, art therapy, journaling, and community support—that helped her speak what words couldn’t.

We walk with Audrey through later losses that stirred old alarms and led to a diagnosis of delayed expression PTSD. She opens up about panic attacks, sleepless nights, and the surprising relief she found in body-based practices like progressive muscle relaxation and grounding. Along the way, we talk about post-traumatic growth: how grief work, peer support, and meaning-making transformed pain into purpose, guiding her toward social work and back to Jessica’s House as a volunteer, youth ambassador, and intern.

This episode is a compassionate guide for parents navigating children’s bereavement and for anyone seeking grief support that honors both heart and body. We share language for tough conversations, simple family rituals that keep memories alive—hello, monarch butterflies—and clear, age-appropriate ways to talk about death without sugarcoating. If you’re looking for practical coping skills, faith-informed resilience, and a reminder that “moving forward” doesn’t mean letting go, this conversation is for you.

If this conversation helps, share it with someone who needs it, subscribe for future episodes, and leave a rating and review so others can find the show. For free grief resources or peer support, visit jessicashouse.org, and email topic ideas to info@jessicashouse.org.

Order the book When Grief Comes Home https://a.co/d/ijaiP5L

For more information on Jessica’s House or for additional resources, please go to jessicashouse.org 

Transcript

Welcome And Book Context

Gary Shriver 0:00

Hello, and welcome to When Grief Comes Home, a podcast dedicated to parents living through loss while supporting their child. Let's meet the team.

Erin Nelson 0:10

I'm Erin Nelson, founding executive director at Jessica's House.

Colleen Montague 0:14

Hi, I'm Colleen Montague, program director for Jessica's House and a licensed marriage and family therapist.

Brad Quillen 0:21

Hi, I'm Brad Quillen, and I'm the host of When Grief Comes Home.

Gary Shriver 0:25

This podcast goes along with the book of the same name. The book When Grief Comes Home is a gentle guide for parents who are grieving a partner or child while helping their children through the loss of their parent or sibling. When Grief Comes Home is now available at all major book retailers. Now let's go to the team as they share grief resources and coping skills, heartfelt stories and insights to support parents as they raise children who are grieving. Together, you'll find strength as we learn to live with loss and find ways to heal.

Brad Quillen 1:01

Hello, hello. This is Brad from Jessica's House. Today we have a very special guest with us. Audrey was one of our first children to participate in our program back when it opened in 2012. Since then, she's participated in our program in other ways, including being one of our youth ambassadors, a volunteer, and now on our staff as an intern. She currently attends Boston College and is working towards her master's degree in social work, and her goal is to one day be a licensed clinical social worker. Well, Colleen and Erin, today's a little bit of a different day.

Erin Nelson 1:34

We have a special guest.

Brad Quillen 1:36

So, Audrey, welcome to When Grief Comes Home to the podcast. We're thrilled that you're here.

Audrey Smallwood 1:40

Thank you so much for having me. I'm excited.

Brad Quillen 1:43

Yeah, and I'm gonna hand it over to Erin because you guys go way back. I mean, even before Audrey was born. You've known the family for years and years, and I'll just leave it at that. We won't say how old Audrey is, but we'll leave it at that.

Erin Nelson 1:56

Yeah, so we wanted to bring Audrey in today. And um, you know, Audrey is one of the very first children um that participated in our program here at Jessica's House. And we opened Jessica's House in 2012, and she was in our program after her dad Mark died, and she happens to be a family friend of our families. So our families are very close, and as we open Jessica's house, we realize that Audrey would be one of those very first kids in our program. And as she's grown up, she became not only a volunteer, but then a youth ambassador with us, and then now she's here in her summer on her college break as an intern with us, and I'll let her tell you a little bit more as she goes along. But right now she's currently attending Boston College and she's working towards her master's degree. And Audrey, tell us a little bit more about your pathway to education and what that looks like.

Audrey Smallwood 3:06

Yeah, of course. So I'm currently heading into my junior year at Boston College. I'm working on my undergraduate degree in applied psychology and human development. And this coming semester I will also be starting a graduate program in the Boston College School of Social Work, uh, working towards uh my master's in social work. So I'm doing a five-year program with them uh where I get uh early entry into their MSW program. So I'm really looking forward to it.

Remembering Dad And Early Memories

Erin Nelson 3:40

Well, congratulations. That's such a wonderful step for you as you further your education. And you and I go way back, and I remember meeting you um at I think it was your second birthday. Second or third, maybe it was your third birthday, I think. And so um in our friend, our family, um where we've been friends for a really long time, and so I had the honor of knowing your dad, Mark, and um something I remember about him is how he always carried you on his shoulder, and he was um just a really big guy, right? I mean, he was so tall, and I remember you and um just how much he adored you and all that you guys shared together and all the time that he really spent with you. And um, I just think about him, and I I I think about one memory I have is that you guys really shared this love for Hannah Montana. Oh, yeah. You remember that? Yes, and so um just tell us about your dad and um just like just some of the memories that you have of him.

Audrey Smallwood 4:53

Yeah, so my dad, I'm grateful because while he passed away when I was four years old, I still hold a few special memories with me, which I'm really grateful for because I was so young, and so I'm thankful that there are things that I remember with him. But everybody always tells me that I was like his little jewel. As the youngest daughter of uh my four older siblings, I came to my mom and dad as a late life surprise. My mom was 47 when she had me, and my dad was just a few years older than her, and so there's a huge to age difference between me and my older siblings. I'm currently 20 years old, they're in their 30s and 40s, and so I was very much a late life surprise. And like you were saying, Erin, everyone always tells me that he adored me so much, and I remember that adoration as a child, and just you know, going to work with him at our uh family restaurant, and he would take me around to tables and let me place menus on customers' tables, and then he would always be like, Okay, then after work, we're gonna we're gonna go across the street to the store and get you a toy. And I remember him carrying me, like you said. I remember uh he was a huge fisherman, and so he would take me to his favorite fishing spots. He loved going to rainbow pools, and I remember fishing with him. I remember the Hannah Montana bond we had. I was obsessed with Hannah Montana, and he really celebrated it. I even had a Hannah Montana fishing pole that we would take out and go fishing. I had a Hannah Montana guitar, all the things. So he really celebrated that obsession with mine. And I remember I went on so many fishing trips with him, and every time we went fishing, we would stop at this specific store on the way, like a little convenience store. And he would stop and buy me animal crackers. They come in that like red box and they have circus animals on the front. You guys know what I'm talking about. Oh yeah. He would buy me a little box of those as a treat to eat as we drove up to the mountains wherever we were fishing. And I remember that so vividly. And so, yeah, those are just a few memories I have, but I truly do remember just be feeling so loved and cared for by him. And that's something I just really cherish.

Erin Nelson 7:43

Yeah, absolutely. And Audrey, um, you said you were four years old when your dad died. Can you tell us a little bit more just about your dad's death?

Growing Up Without A Father

Audrey Smallwood 7:53

Yeah, of course. So my dad, uh, within the first, or I would say a few years before he passed away, he was having uh some health issues already and you know, some hospitalizations before he passed away. Uh he had like high blood pressure, uh, some heart issues. Uh but the the day that he passed away, he passed away in his sleep. And so uh they assume that it was something to do with his heart. We still don't know to this day exactly the issue that it was. But he passed away early in the morning, and I unfortunately was the one who found him uh at age four. And so honestly, the day of his passing will always be a traumatic day for me. Absolutely. Because of the memories associated with it. Uh, but yeah, he died in his sleep.

Erin Nelson 8:54

He died in his sleep, and and so that was just a real it was such a big loss for you at four years old. And you've grown up, you know, without your dad. And as you've explained who he was and all the love that you felt from him and just how he cherished you and how he adored you, you lost that in that moment of not having just that physical presence and that physical love in your life. And just as you've grown up, can you just talk a little bit about like what was it like for you? And you know, what do you remember about just growing up without your dad?

Audrey Smallwood 9:40

Yeah, of course. I can definitely share that. So I think my earliest memories growing up without my dad, and just in those like first couple years after my dad died, I definitely registered that he was no longer there and that he wasn't coming back. And very early on, early on, I remember registering that someone could be taken from you that quickly. That was something that I quickly understood was wow, like my dad is no longer here with us, and that could happen to anyone around me that I love. So I think the reality of death is something that entered my life from the moment that he passed away, and it became a very real thing to me that a child that young should not have to know.

Erin Nelson 10:39

Right.

Audrey Smallwood 10:40

I think growing up in elementary school, I I was just a very aware kid. I knew that my family looked different growing up with a single mother, and that, you know, going to other friends' houses for play dates. They had a mom and a dad, and their house was full with them and their siblings who were all in close age together. And then when people come over to my house for a play date, it would just be me and my mom, since my siblings are so much older, and obviously my dad wasn't there. So I was very aware that my family looked a lot different than other people's. I don't think it really set in until about middle school the the difficulty of growing up a different way than others. And I think it's when I started entering those like preteen years when I started to begin to process, oh, I don't have a father. And that kind of sucks. And I kind of wish I had a dad like my other friends, and this is something that I just I I I've never really I don't really know what it's like to have a dad. I wonder what it would be like to have a dad. All those sorts of of thoughts and feelings began began surfacing as I started to enter my like teen years.

Erin Nelson 12:14

Yeah. So you were grieving over him in the beginning of your life, you know, as a four-year-old, and what you were missing then. And then as you kind of grew and had developmental kind of milestones in your own life, then you missed him in a different way. For sure.

Colleen Montague 12:34

Can you share with us some specific milestones or or times when you've really noticed his absence?

Audrey Smallwood 12:41

There's so many. It's hard to choose just a few. I think honestly, for me, the moments in which I really feel his absence are in the mundane moments where those who have a father might not even realize the the gravity or the blessing it is to have a father in like those mundane moments where a light comes on on your dashboard in your car, and you're like, Oh, what is that? Like that moment of panic. Let me call dad and ask him. I don't have a dad to call about that. You know, in those moments where you hear a a noise downstairs in the middle of the night, and you're like, What is that? I don't have a dad there to to go and grab. I think the big milestones obviously like, you know, uh graduating high school, moving across the country and having to move in everything into my apartment. Uh, you know, just the big moments like first day of college and when something super exciting happens and I wish I could tell him on holidays. You know, there's just so many, so many times. But I think honestly, for me, it's in the mundane moments that I miss him the most and I wish he was here.

Handling Questions And School Moments

Erin Nelson 14:13

It's those everyday moments, both big and small.

Brad Quillen 14:16

Hey Audrey, I know one of the things that you face, but also kids face, is how they react to friends asking questions about um some of those things of different school events and hey, where's your dad? Or or these things, or is your mom coming? And sadly your dad died, or someone that might be coming to Jessica's house, their mom died. But how'd you handle that? And did you kind of have some prescripted ways in which you would answer those questions when people would ask?

Audrey Smallwood 14:43

Unfortunately, it was something that I had to get used to. Like my dad passed away when I was four years old in March, and then that August I started kindergarten. And so from the beginning, you know, I had teachers or friends that didn't know my dad had passed away. And, you know, just anytime I made a new friend or you know, friend's parents, oh, what do you what do your parents do? And I'm like, oh, my mom does this. How about your dad? Oh, my dad passed away when I was four. And so it was something from day one I had to get used to and I had to get comfortable saying it. And I think it's still hard to this day to say it. I think I worry more about making other people uncomfortable, honestly, when they ask and knowing that it's immediately gonna change the tone of the conversation.

Brad Quillen 15:41

Yeah, it's like the air leaves the room, right?

Audrey Smallwood 15:43

Exactly. And even just in those conversations today where people are like, oh, like my dad like loves doing this. Oh, my dad too. How about you, Audrey? And I immediately have to be like, Oh, my dad passed away. And then everybody's kind of just like looking at each other, like, what do we say? And then I have to be the one to kind of lighten up the mood, you know, and be like, oh, it's okay, guys. Like, it's been many years, like I'm comfortable talking about it. But when I was younger, it was hard, you know. I remember like in fourth grade, it's so normal to do like Mother's Day and Father's Day, like art projects in class. And sometimes my teachers wouldn't know, and so they would plan to do like a Father's Day art project, and I would have to raise my hand and be like, So who should I make this for? Like my dad passed away, and so I would make it like for my grandpa or something like that. But you know, I think I've gotten used to kind of breaking the news to people, but it's never a comfortable conversation to have.

Erin Nelson 16:48

Yeah, even today, right? Those conversations continue to be difficult, and um, it's just yeah, it's just it's just living without your dad for the rest of your life. And so it really speaks to the gravity of what that loss has meant to you.

Colleen Montague 17:07

Audrey, who have been the key people in your life that have supported you over the years, and what are some specific things that they've done that have been especially helpful?

Audrey Smallwood 17:19

The first person that comes to mind is just my wonderful mom. She's always been such a source of support for me, especially in building the role that faith plays in my life. She's always turned my eyes towards Christ in times of hardship and times when I'm missing my dad. She's just truly emphasized to me the importance of putting everything at the feet of Jesus, and through her being that support for me, she's she's built the support that God is in my life for me from a very young age. And so I would say my mom has been a huge support for me, my faith is the biggest support for me. Growing up, uh, my two older sisters played a huge role in my life and kind of stepping in and becoming like second parents to me. And so I'm incredibly grateful for the support that they've been in my life from a very young age. Like I said, faith is a huge part of my life, and so just all of the different like youth groups I went to growing up, and my youth group leaders have been huge sources of support for me. I was super involved in young life in high school, and so all my young life leaders and the ways in which they spoke into my life, but honestly, like every source of support I can name is centered in God and in faith and in people who have strong relationships with Christ that have poured into me and made me feel loved and and seen throughout my life.

Erin Nelson 19:16

Yeah.

Colleen Montague 19:17

We talked about that in our last episode, just how impactful others are in those relationships and yeah.

Jessica’s House And Coping Skills

Erin Nelson 19:26

Yeah, Audrey, yeah. I think about just your mom happens to be my bestie, and so watching her raise you and um watching her faith and how that shaped her grief, and how she's really leaned into that and really modeled that for you, and um her source of strength, and um to really walk very honestly as well, and um that she's been able to grieve and um be with her grief and openly grieve and model that, and also um finds such comfort in God and um all the provision that He has really made, just how all the ways he has really created a healing space for both of you guys. And um, you know, when we were opening up Jessica's house, I think about how one day we just thought to ourselves, wait a minute, actually Audrey could come to Jessica's house. And you know, it was um it was just all coming together, even as your dad died, and um as you came in as one of those first children in our program. But can you talk a little bit about Jessica's house and um what you remember about coming to group here?

Audrey Smallwood 20:56

I remember Jessica's house back at our old house. It was so much smaller, and I remember it feeling like such a safe place for me. Like I can still picture the littles talking room and going in there and sitting on the carpet with the other littles, and Nancy Daly was my group facilitator, and I just remember the feeling of walking in Jessica's house and walking into the littles room and sitting down surrounded by other children who had also lost a parent, and feeling the warm support of Nancy being there for us and just feeling at peace. That's how I would describe it. Just feeling at peace with those other kids who who got it, who knew what grief was.

Erin Nelson 21:59

It was so different than what you were experiencing at school, right? Because you may not have known other kids who had experienced a death, especially the death of their dad. And so well, do you remember just having an understanding about that other kids actually did, you know, also lose a dad like you?

Audrey Smallwood 22:21

Yes, I think I would have felt very alone if I didn't have the kids at Jessica's house. Because as you were saying, when I think back to my childhood friend group, there was no one that had been touched by grief. And so I'm so grateful that I had Jessica's house in my life, and I was exposed to children that had also lost a parent because I think it made me feel so companioned in my grief, and it made me feel less different than everyone, I think, just being able to see that there were other kids whose parents had passed away, whose families had been changed forever, who were feeling similar feelings to me, and having, you know, those similar awkward conversations with other people, and just getting to not only meet them, but to mourn alongside them, to play alongside them, to just be kids with each other, and to be in a space where grieving was welcomed and it was normalized. So I'm I'm truly so grateful that I had the opportunity to honestly, I was at Jessica's house for a few years, so just to grow up alongside kids who had also experienced a death in their family. Yeah.

Colleen Montague 23:59

One of our hopes with kids coming to Jessica's house is as they learn and explore the different therapeutic spaces, they'll find coping skills that work for them. Um, and also maybe some that don't work, you know. And so tell me about what your experience has been and with Jessica's house. What have you learned has helped you and even as you've gotten older, what coping skills are really helpful for you?

Audrey Smallwood 24:25

The first thing that comes to mind is whenever Nancy would sit down with us in our littles group, she would read us a book centered around grief every day. And I remember those books being so helpful for me. Just the children's literature that was uh centered around grief and geared towards, you know, kids that were my age. Because as a child I loved reading, and so reading books that were about things that I was feeling, and that helped me identify and resonate with different things and just explore different parts of my grief, that was a huge uh coping mechanism for me was reading, especially the books at Jessica's house that we read together. Another coping mechanism that I quickly began to realize helped me so much was just doing art at Jessica's house and you know, painting and drawing and expressing in creative ways was something I loved, and that was one of my favorite parts of coming to Jessica's house was getting to spend time in the art room and just having the freedom to express through whatever mode or way in which I wanted that day. And I think growing up that creative outlet has grown in different directions. Now I would say my biggest outlet for expressing my grief, expressing my emotions is writing. And so as I've grown older, getting the opportunity to be a youth ambassador with Jessica's house was honestly such an outlet for me. Uh getting to share my experience with grief and the role that Jessica's house played uh in my journey with grief as a child was such a special opportunity for me because I've always loved writing and it gave me the chance to write speeches and engage in public speaking, which is always something that I've loved, and do it in a way that not only spread the message about what Jessica's house is, but also it served as a way for me to express. And so writing is a huge way in which I cope. And that's just grown and grown to this day, just in journaling daily and all those things.

Traditions, Triggers, And PTSD

Colleen Montague 27:20

You know, we're gonna talk about the post-traumatic growth here soon, but I'm just thinking, you know, you the art expression was so powerful for you as a child, and now here you are, you know, 15 years later. And as a staff intern this summer, you're helping us create the art that the kids will get to do this year. And you're creating really good pieces, and it's because you have this lens of an experience that you had with it and what worked for you and what you liked, and now you're helping other kids find that same healthy form of expression through art.

Audrey Smallwood 27:56

Yeah, yeah, it's such it's a full circle moment, it really is. Yeah.

Brad Quillen 28:01

Hey, and creating new things is a part of the reality of someone's life and a family's life when someone dies, and some of those are new traditions, or we always did it this way, but in your family, dad's not here for the next Christmas, and dad's not here for Thanksgiving or birthdays. So how did that look different after your dad died? Because a lot of families listening are fa facing that for the first time, or it's the second time and it's starting to resonate and hit home.

Audrey Smallwood 28:27

Finding ways to honor my dad and the other family members that have passed away throughout my life is always something that my family has prioritized on holidays, on you know, significant days, significant moments, just finding ways to remember him, to remember his memory, to share funny stories we have about him, to say his name, to laugh together in his memory, and you know, just all those things. I think what comes to mind is whenever we see a monarch butterfly, we always think of my dad, and we snap a picture and like we send it to each other, and it's just a way in which we remember him and we feel his presence in our life. But I think just creating space for his memory and space to grieve in our daily lives, but especially on those harder days, which are often holidays or those big milestones, like I was talking about earlier. Just finding ways to be like, oh, I bet I bet dad would love this.

Erin Nelson 29:56

Audrey, you mentioned um other deaths, and I I know you've had some other significance significant deaths in your life as well. And today we're talking about post-traumatic growth, but then there's also that flip side of post-traumatic stress. And as you've grieved your dad and also other deaths in your life, I know that you've been really honest and have been open even in your school space as you're working and leading in the mental health realm at your school, that um you've also had to face some other difficulties in your life. Can you share a little bit about what that's been like for you?

Audrey Smallwood 30:40

So, to be completely honest with you, post-traumatic stress is something that I never really thought about until about a year and a half ago. And it was something that entered my life as the familial environment around me began becoming really hard. My sister was battling cancer for a few years, and then unfortunately last April my family lost my little cousin Elisha. And so those things that happened in my life were really triggering for me and brought up a lot of unresolved processing and emotions and memories and bodily r reactions when it came to my father's death. And so last summer I was diagnosed with delayed expression, post-traumatic stress disorder. And that diagnosis came after months of battling uh panic attacks and sleep disturbances, nightmares, fight or flight, all the things uh that I still deal with today. Uh, but that diagnosis was very freeing for me and it made me feel very sane.

Break And Resource Info

Erin Nelson 32:10

As you've experienced and you mentioned early in this conversation, that when you were a child and your dad died, you had this awareness that people can die and that something can change so quickly. And you know, as our safety is compromised sometimes, right? Where that felt sense of safety can just really open us up to, as you mentioned, like what else could happen, you know, and just kind of wondering about the safety of other people, and then as we go on and other people do die or maybe get diagnosed with cancer, it can bring up so many of those early childhood feelings. And so, what has helped you, Audrey, as you've worked through this, and as we're looking kind of at that post-traumatic growth, sure we're gonna go to a break in a moment, but what has helped you just in this last um year to really get you through some of those um post-traumatic stress, some of the, like you said, that kind of what you're experiencing in your body?

Audrey Smallwood 33:20

I think before last year I didn't realize that grief was a full body experience. I knew that it impacted your mental health, but I didn't realize the extent to which it was stored and experienced in your body. And it wasn't until I realized that I was able to make a lot of growth when it came to my PTSD. And so today, now I understand the importance of doing body work and engaging in things like progressive muscle relaxation and identifying and studying the ways in which my body has stored memories and has reacted during traumatic moments and those different things that were triggered when my cousin passed away. And so today I really prioritize doing body work, and it's just as important to me as you know, like the the mental processing.

Erin Nelson 34:31

Yeah, our body is a resource, right? And as we are processing trauma and we're processing loss, really looking into some of those practices that can really help us. And so thank you, Audrey.

Brad Quillen 34:46

Audrey, thank you for this first half of the podcast. So we're gonna take a break, but we're gonna come back, and afterwards, we're gonna continue talking about post-traumatic growth and even just some meaning making we talk about here at Jessica's House with Audrey. So join us right after the break.

Gary Shriver 35:00

Jessica's House is a children's bereavement center located in California's Central Valley since 2012. We provide free peer support for children, teens, young adults, and their families grieving a loss. The When Grief Comes Home podcast goes along with the book of the same name. The book When Grief Comes Home is a gentle guide for parents who are grieving a partner or child while helping their children through the loss of their parent or sibling. When Grief Comes Home is now available at all major book retailers. And if you need grief-related support, please visit jessicashouse.org to download our free resources and be sure to follow Jessica's House on social media. If you have any questions or topics that you'd like us to explore in a future episode, just send us an email to info at jessicashouse.org.

Erin Nelson 35:53

Audrey, as we come back from the break, I'm just wondering, you know, when you think about your dad, um uh like how does he live inside of you? And like, are there ways that you're like him?

Audrey Smallwood 36:04

I think the biggest one that comes to mind is that my dad was the biggest prankster. He was always pulling pranks on people, always not taking things seriously, had a huge sense of humor, and he was just known like anything Mark says, like, don't take it seriously, he's pulling your leg. Even at our our family restaurant, he was constantly pranking customers and just anyone, honestly. And so when it comes to the things that I see of him and me, I'm a huge prankster myself. I love pulling pranks on people at least once a day. I'm constantly joking around with people. Uh, people definitely don't believe the things I say anymore because they're like, oh, Audrey's playing a prank on me. And so I think that's the biggest one that comes to mind. But also a few weeks ago, my mom and I were looking through this huge bin of pictures from years ago that's just been stored in our garage. And we found so many love poems that my dad wrote to my mom. My mom and dad started dating when my mom was 12 and he was like a couple years older than her. And there were poems from when they were like still in elementary school that he had written her, just the most beautiful, like eloquent poems and just little like love letters. It was the cutest thing. And my dad was also a pastor, and my mom always talks about how like the crowds would flood in when he would preach because he was so good with his words, and I also, as I talked about earlier, have a love for writing and for public speaking, and my love language is definitely like writing people little little love letters. I don't know about poems, but not that talented. But love letters, and so yeah, I think definitely like my sense of humor and my love for loving people with words are the two biggest qualities that I see in myself that I get from him.

Erin Nelson 38:24

I remember hearing stories about him putting some extra spicy peppers in the salsa. Yep. Have you ever tried that at the family restaurant?

Audrey Smallwood 38:33

I haven't. I don't dare. I'm sure my brother has.

Erin Nelson 38:37

That's good, Audrey. Thank you.

Colleen Montague 38:39

You know, Audrey, as we talk about just where life has taken you, you know, and all the experiences that you've held and lived through. You know, what would you say that your experience, how has it shaped your values or your priorities, or just how you look at life in general?

Audrey Smallwood 38:57

I think that my experience with grief has shaped my perspective on everything in life. In good ways and bad ways, you know, from age four, it's changed everything. And I think since coming to Jessica's house, Jessica's house has also shaped the way in which I perceive my experience with grief in such a meaningful way. And so when it comes to, you know, meaning making Jessica's house and the opportunity it gave me through being a youth ambassador and sharing my experience with grief with others and you know, getting to be the voice that says that there is life after the death of a of a family member and getting to hopefully inspire others with sharing my personal experience with loss. That's I think where I first began realizing that my my hardship and my the pain that I have from losing my father could be turned into something very beautiful. As my involvement with Jessica's house began growing, so did the passion for continuing to support those who are sitting in the same shoes that I once sat in, that I continue to sit in. And so, you know, um when I began volunteering at Jessica's house and facilitating support groups is when my passion for entering the mental health field, I think, first began growing, and that just continued to grow and grow. And I realized that supporting others and sitting alongside them through their mental health related experiences is something that I'm super passionate about. And so that would, I don't know if I would have ever grown a passion for that if I didn't have such a personal connection to it.

Finding Meaning And Career Purpose

Colleen Montague 41:13

Yeah, that's very it's a powerful statement. We talked in our last episode about how that post-traumatic growth doesn't just happen, it does happen over time, and it happens as a result of doing, you know, that grief work. And I that's what I hear in your story as well, just as you've grown and how that's come true for you now where you are.

Audrey Smallwood 41:37

Yeah, for sure. And I think Jessica's house just really showed me the power of companioning others and their grief and just the the meaningfulness and just sitting with someone and listening. That's all someone needs sometimes. It's just someone there to listen. I think so many people are worried about like having the right thing to say when someone dies, but oftentimes all someone who's grieving wants is someone to sit there and listen. And so that's what Jessica's house showed me, and I think I just really began finding so much meaning in sitting and and listening with children who had who had lost a parent or a sibling. And I realized that that was something that I wanted to continue doing and pursuing uh for the rest of my life.

Brad Quillen 42:33

Hey Audrey, as you think about other kids that are facing similar things that you went through, what advice or insight or little grain of wisdom would you give them as they're kind of walking through maybe some of the early days, but even you know, a couple years, three years out?

Audrey Smallwood 42:50

To those who are facing grief right now, I would say let yourself cry. Growing up, I think for some reason I always had like this thought in my mind like don't cry, Audrey, don't cry. And crying is such an important thing to do. It really is such a it's such a way to express the things that you can't express in words. And it was something that I didn't let myself do as a kid, and I really wish I had because it's so important to cry. And just whenever you feel like the tears coming, just let them flow. That's what I would say, is to express and to make room for your grief, to not run away from it, but to sit with it, no matter how painful it is, just to sit with it and to cry and to journal and to talk with a friend, to find those creative forms of expression that help you mourn. Just to do whatever you can to make room for your grief and to let it come out so that you don't bottle it up all inside.

Brad Quillen 44:12

Yeah, we talked uh last episode about stuff in it, not letting it uh do the work that we need.

Audrey Smallwood 44:19

Yeah.

Brad Quillen 44:20

Hey, as you look forward, how do you carry your dad's memory as you build kind of your adult life? And you're 20, but you know, I mean, there's you got years ahead, but you know, I had a chance to meet your dad a few different times and was a recipient of one of his pranks, but I didn't really know him. So that was that's a piece, like obviously, that's gonna be carried with you. But what are some of those other things you want to take for Mark that that you want to be a part of your adult life as you look forward?

Advice For Grieving Kids

Audrey Smallwood 44:45

As I've grown up, I've realized that my interest in knowing more about him and hearing more stories about him and all those things has grown. And so I think as I move forward, I always will be finding ways to honor his memory and you know, put pictures of him around my room. A couple months ago I found his Bible with all of his notes in the margins, and so I love using his Bible and reading it and just seeing him show up for me in in scripture and in the notes and the dates that he that he put in the margins. And so I think moving forward, just continuing to make space for his memory in my life is something that I will continue to prioritize. Although it's been fifteen, sixteen years since he passed away, I never want to forget him or to have his memory dwindle in my life. I strive to continue to to uphold and to honor who who he was and who he still is to me and to my whole family every day.

Erin Nelson 46:17

Audrey, what advice or what kind of wisdom would you pass on to parents? Because this podcast is directly to parents, and so parents are listening to this and they're wanting to um really bring support to their children and also really take good care of themselves. What would you say to them as they're raising children who are grieving and also taking care of their own hearts?

Audrey Smallwood 46:43

When I think of parents and what I would want to say to them, I think of my own mom and the way in which she modeled grieving for me and how grateful I am for the honesty to which she approached her grief, that it was so common to for her to talk about my dad in front of me and to share memories she had with him around me, and to cry with me and in front of me, and to express her grief in front of me, and so to parents, I would just say that I know sometimes the tendency is for parents to withhold their emotions in their mourning in front of their children, but for me it was actually so helpful to witness my mom grieving, and so to the parents, I would just say don't be afraid to to mourn in front of and with your children. In fact, I think it's so important to do so because you're modeling what you're modeling what what grieving should look like to them. They're they're looking to you, and I don't mean that in a way that should put pressure on you, but instead I mean that in a way that should hopefully be freeing, that you don't have to put on a face in front of them. That the most helpful thing to me was my mom being honest and being vulnerable and you know, just showing me that she's grieving too.

Colleen Montague 48:25

Audrey, a lot of times parents have shared that they're afraid to talk about it with their children. They're afraid to show how they're really feeling because they don't want to either make their child sad or they don't want to scare their child. But that doesn't sound like that was the experience you had when your mom would grieve in front of you.

Guidance For Grieving Parents

Audrey Smallwood 48:46

I would say that the honesty and her just being so open about her grief helped me process things, and especially when it comes to talking about the death itself, to not sugarcoat anything, to be specific about yes, your dad had a heart issue, and no, we don't know exactly what it is, we don't know exactly what it happened to his heart, but we know it was something that had to do with his heart, just being honest and very clear about the death and the specific details, and not withholding anything from the child because those are important things for them to know uh at the right time for them to continue to process the death and to to continue to grieve.

Erin Nelson 49:38

Audrey, thank you. Thank you for being here, for sharing your dad and your story, and just for your courage, and I'm really grateful you were here.

Colleen Montague 49:49

Audrey, I'm grateful for the work that you're already doing in the world, and I look forward to continuing to watch you on your on your path.

Brad Quillen 49:58

Yeah, friend, thanks for your time today. And uh, we've had the chance to know you for years around here, not always an intern, but just a part of the community in which we live. And so I'm just thrilled that you got to share uh a bit of your story, but that those that listen got to be introduced to you. So thanks for taking that time and uh we sure appreciate you stopping in today.

Audrey Smallwood 50:16

Thank you guys so much for for giving me a platform to share my story and just for the role that Jessica's house has played in in my grief journey, in my future career path. It's truly been an honor to watch Jessica's House grow into what it is to today, and to watch the way in which it's become such a source of hope and healing for our community.

Erin Nelson 50:40

Thanks, Audrey.

Brad Quillen 50:42

Again, Audrey, thank you, thank you, thank you. Aaron and Colleen, this has been a treat for us, I know. Aaron, I know there's something you wanted to share with our listeners today as we wrap up this podcast. Why don't you go ahead and take a moment?

Erin Nelson 50:55

Just as our listeners have given us really great feedback, I just want to say if you could just take a moment to rate our podcast and also write a review. And so every time you review a podcast, it goes up a little bit into ratings. And so if somebody just types in grief in a podcast search, they can find this podcast. And as we know that it's been so helpful for parents who are grieving, we want to get it into more hands. So please rate and review.

Brad Quillen 51:32

Thanks, Erin. And let me remind you: be sure to visit jessicashouse.org for more grief resources. And if you have any other topics or questions you'd like us to cover on this podcast, we welcome your email at info at jessica'shouse.org. Be sure to join us for the next episode of When Grief Comes Home.

Gary Shriver 51:52

Until then, we wish you well. Jessica's House is a children's bereavement center located in California's Central Valley since 2012. We provide free peer support for children, teens, young adults, and their families grieving a loss. The When Grief Comes Home podcast goes along with the book of the same name. The book When Grief Comes Home is a gentle guide for parents who are grieving a partner or child while helping their children through the loss of their parent or sibling. When Grief Comes Home is now available at all major book retailers. And if you need grief-related support, please visit jessica'shouse.org to download our free resources and be sure to follow Jessica's House on social media. If you have any questions or topics that you'd like us to explore in a future episode, just send us an email to info at jessicashouse.org. Thank you for joining us, and we'll see you next time for when grief comes home.