How Saying Goodbye Affects Grief

What if you never got to say goodbye? We dig into that question with honesty and care, unpacking how sudden loss and anticipated loss shape grief in different, but equally real, ways. From the shock that hits your nervous system to the looping what if thoughts, we name what so many parents feel but struggle to put into words—and we offer simple, practical ways to say what was left unsaid.

Together, we explore the five phrases that heal—thank you, I love you, I’m sorry, please forgive me, and I forgive you—and show how to use them in letters, private rituals, and visits to meaningful places. We talk about companioning as a posture of presence rather than fixing, and we explain why honest, ongoing conversations can soften guilt and create room for relief, gratitude, and connection. You’ll hear how families create “retroactive” goodbyes that matter just as much as bedside moments, even years later.

For kids, we share hands-on ideas that work: a simple “time machine” drawing with a pretend phone to call the past, a “wish I could tell you” jar, and place-based practices like sitting in a loved one’s favorite spot to speak what’s on their heart. We highlight how writing organizes big feelings, how rituals anchor memory, and why the bond with someone who died continues through stories, values, and everyday acts of remembrance.

If you’re carrying unsaid words or wondering how to guide a grieving child, this conversation offers validation, language, and tools you can use today. Listen, share with someone who needs it, and if our work helps you, please follow, rate, and leave a review so more families can find support. What message would you add to your goodbye?

Order the book When Grief Comes Home https://a.co/d/ijaiP5L

For more information on Jessica’s House or for additional resources, please go to jessicashouse.org 

Transcript

Welcome And Episode Focus

Gary Shriver 0:00

Hello, and welcome to When Grief Comes Home, a podcast dedicated to parents living through loss while supporting their child. Let's meet the team.

Erin Nelson 0:10

I'm Erin Nelson, founding executive director at Jessica's House.

Colleen Montague 0:14

Hi, I'm Colleen Montague, program director for Jessica's House and a licensed marriage and family therapist.

Gary Shriver 0:21

Hi, I'm Brad Quillen, and I'm the host of When Grief Comes Home. This podcast goes along with the book of the same name. The book When Grief Comes Home is a gentle guide for parents who are grieving a partner or child while helping their children through the loss of their parent or sibling. When Grief Comes Home is now available at all major book retailers. Now let's go to the team as they share grief resources and coping skills, heartfelt stories and insights to support parents as they raise children who are grieving. Together, you'll find strength as we learn to live with loss and find ways to heal.

Two Kinds Of Goodbyes: Sudden Vs. Anticipated

Brad Quillen 1:01

Well, hello, hello. It's Brad from Jessica's house. Today's topic addresses a question many grieving families struggle with. What if I didn't get a chance to say goodbye? This conversation matters because so many people carry guilt or confusion about their goodbye experience. Aaron Colleen, it's good to see you guys today. And I am excited. I know that doesn't sound like a a way to start off a grief podcast, but this topic of saying goodbye after someone dies, as we reflect on that, whether we had a chance to say goodbye or not say goodbye is a topic that a lot of people wrestle with in grief. So I'm glad that we're taking a few minutes to talk about this today. And Aaron, in your story, you've had chances to say goodbye. And then in part of your story is you didn't have a chance to say goodbye. And so I'm just gonna ask you if you just kind of walk us through what that's been like for you and how that's affected your grief in different ways.

Erin Nelson 1:55

Yeah, Brad, I just think, and for our listeners today, sometimes in life we get a chance to say goodbye, and sometimes we don't with Tyler, which was one of my very first deaths that I ever faced. I didn't get a chance to say goodbye. As many of our listeners know, he died in a plane crash in a mid-air collision and totally unexpected, just that classic middle of the night phone call. And I didn't really get it, we never really had a chance to say goodbye. And with Carter, he was also in an accident, but he was taken to the hospital, and as he spent some time there, we were able to gather as a family, and he wasn't conscious, but we did have a chance to gather around him, and over, you know, a course of you know, overnight and into the next day, as his body failed, we had a chance to be with him and gather everybody around. And it felt like a mercy in some ways that just even though maybe he couldn't really hear us, um, that we were together in it and had a chance to just even look at his body and be with him. And so I know there's all kinds of ways that we face grief and death, and it really does shape sometimes what happens in our grief experience. Yeah.

Honoring Different Family Comfort Levels

Brad Quillen 3:33

And even knowing your family, and I had a chance to be at the hospital that day, everybody there has a different way to say goodbye or felt different about how to say goodbye in those moments, too. Some are comfortable, some aren't comfortable going into the room or the spaces. They'd rather just stay with the family on a waiting room or stuff like that. So it's it's all varying.

Erin Nelson 3:53

Yeah, absolutely. And just honoring every person's way and what they need in that moment, it can be really scary, right? You're in a very intense situation. I see you setting, and some type that's not for everybody, right? And so being able to know, and some of our family didn't want to leave us side, other people wanted to be there all the time, and giving um just the chance to all do it the way they needed to do it. And, you know, so as our listeners are here, I know we have um people that have faced long-term illnesses, and it seems like they've been saying goodbye really from the diagnosis. And other times, you know, they got that phone call or they learned somehow, maybe they even were there and it was a sudden death. And so we're gonna just dive into that today to kind of talk about, you know, what is it like that face a sudden death? And um, if you got to say goodbye, or even if you didn't, you may want to even do it differently and explore saying goodbye along the way.

SPEAKER_02 5:05

Yeah.

Erin Nelson 5:06

And I feel like even now, I'm Carter's birthday is on Tuesday, which is just a couple of days from now. And, you know, I'm still sitting in that piece of, you know, thinking about him being born and knowing we had to say goodbye to him s so much earlier than we ever imagined. I mean, I kind of thought he would be saying goodbye to me, right? As his mom. And um, and so we just kind of continue those goodbyes in some ways. And I still, it's been six years, and I still think, uh, wait, did that happen? And did we say goodbye? And is that even possible that that happened? And so I feel like we continually um say, Oh, yeah, that happened, and we had to say goodbye.

Brad Quillen 5:59

Yeah. Colleen, and some of those accidents or those immediate deaths, there's just so much confusion and disbelief and so many emotions going on with families and and folks. Can you kind of just walk us through some of those things people face right in those initial few days or even hours?

Colleen Montague 6:19

Yeah, really that absence of goodbye really can feel like being dropped into grief without warning. And it's just so hard to wrap your mind around the reality of that death. There's just so much trauma with that loss and the lack of preparation that you had going into it. The physical and emotional reactions that you may experience could feel more intense initially because there really was no time to prepare for them like somebody may have with an anticipatory death. And then, of course, we've heard so often together in group about just all of the if only thoughts that are on replay, whether logical or not. But it's so it goes into just that, oh man, if only, like what if I what if I could have, maybe, and those play through your mind. And I feel like it's just what part of that way of trying to make sense, but of the senseless, really.

Brad Quillen 7:24

Yeah. Yeah, because I've heard for years here at the house that if that that guilt of if I had only or if I had gone with or I hadn't been late or I'd gotten up on time, like kiddos that have kind of said that all throughout the years at the house, the what ifs.

Erin Nelson 7:39

Or if I would have told them not to go.

Brad Quillen 7:41

Oh yeah.

Erin Nelson 7:42

Right. And, you know, all of those pieces of just wishing you would have done something different, if they would have left five minutes earlier or later. And yeah, there are just all these what ifs, and it's such a mystery about just timing and being at a certain place and physics and all the things that happen in this world and this lifetime that happened that would cause somebody to die.

Brad Quillen 8:08

Yeah. Aaron, can I ask you about the the intensity of the physical and emotional reaction when it's that immediate death and just kind of some of those pieces? And you and I have seen that over the years as we've worked with lots and lots of families, not only here at Jessica's house, but in the church setting too, of just when we get that phone call and there was an accident or a heart attack or an industrial accident or something, that that immediate death, that there's just seems to be, you know, immeasurably more intensity.

The Body’s Response To Sudden Loss

Erin Nelson 8:37

Yeah. I think people can just feel the intensity of that. And, you know, sometimes they're able to express it in the moment, sometimes it's a little bit delayed, and then they can express it. Something that we notice that we've seen is sometimes just those the effect on your nervous system of shock and just, you know, disbelief and the traumatic experience of it. You know, people might just start shaking. And um, you know, that is really your body um regulating itself and really just shaking off kind of that very traumatic experience that you had. And so it can be a very intense experience in the moment to learn that someone has died.

Brad Quillen 9:25

And it's um it's just so physical for some people that just shut down, or again, that the intensity is so much because of the shock and the awe in some ways.

Words We Wish We’d Said

Erin Nelson 9:39

Yeah, definitely. And yeah, you just are never prepared for someone to die. And you know, grief is in facing a loss is never easy. And you know, as we talk about goodbyes, there are some parts of saying goodbye that can be helpful. We talk about if we just had an opportunity to say goodbye, we may say words like thank you. You know, we may say something like I wish I would have done this or that. We may say something like I forgive you for. We may say, Will you forgive me? We may say I'm sorry, we might say I love you, and all of these ways that we're expressing some of those unsaid parts that we've wanted to say to someone. I heard someone say once, like, don't reserve your words, your affection, your deep love for somebody. It's like reserving the very best wine, you know, and you're keeping it, but you're so you're not actually expressing some of those really important words. And sometimes those goodbyes are the time that you say, these are all the things I've ever wanted to say to you. And these are all the things I want to say thank you for, these are all the things I want to say, you know. I love this about you. I'll never forget this vacation we took. This is one of my favorite times that we've spent together, and those goodbyes can be healing, you know, and I've seen that over the years. And as, you know, I've worked with families and kind of companion them in ways to say goodbye. There are opportunities that we have that can bring some healing at the end of life, and it does affect your grief process in a positive way. Yeah.

Brad Quillen 11:41

Colleen, Aaron just used a word that maybe a newer listener hasn't heard before, and that's this idea of companioning before we get too far. Can you explain what that means, companioning for that person that might be listening for the first time?

Colleen Montague 11:53

To companion someone is to really come alongside them and be with them wherever it is that they are, just meeting them where they are. And we can also be a companion to ourselves too, you know, which is just to really allow ourselves to be and to feel whatever it is as it as it comes up for us.

Erin Nelson 12:13

Yeah, we've been talking about that word companion. Yesterday I was sitting with someone and we were talking about breaking it out just as cum, you know, which is the word with, and then pan is bread.

SPEAKER_02 12:26

Bread, yeah.

Erin Nelson 12:26

With bread. And so it it really can be extended as hospitality.

unknown 12:31

Yeah.

Erin Nelson 12:32

You know, to be a companion means that we're welcoming them, we're welcoming their pain, we're bringing hospitality with to their pain, and it's like it's with bread, you know, when you're with somebody and you sit down with them and you break bread together and you're having this communion time with someone. There's something so sacred about pain, and there's something so sacred about grief. And as we at Juscus House talk about being a companion, we're talking about bringing hospitality to the pain that's in front of us. Yeah. Every person who walks through the door that we're opening up and welcoming their pain. And so to be a companion is to welcome pain too.

Brad Quillen 13:17

I before we get too far, I don't want people to think a few minutes ago we talked and spent some time on that immense um emotion or physical that comes along when when there's a an immediate death, but not to say there isn't with a a terminal or a long-term illness, right? I I don't want people to get that, but because there's some myths that are that are better or worse, or one's easier, or one's you know, prolonged so you get a chance, but that's not always true either.

Erin Nelson 13:43

No, and you know, it's we're not comparing the pain of it. And sometimes when we have experienced some kind of pre-grieving or anticipatory grieving, and we've said goodbye along the way, um, it you know, it affects our grief. It doesn't make it necessarily easier. Yeah, right.

Gary Shriver 14:04

Yeah, better or worse.

Erin Nelson 14:05

Better or worse, but it does impact it and it may look different than it would for someone that had a very sudden death.

Anticipatory Grief Myths And Realities

Brad Quillen 14:15

Yeah. Cause I think sometimes people go, Well, well, you had time, you know, and I I've heard that in group over the years, and I don't it's just different.

Erin Nelson 14:24

Right, because it's kind of different. The other part of that is that that anticipatory period, it brings so much exhaustion and pain and caregiving and years, sometimes and years of having your life totally changed and watching that person you watch them kind of like die and change along the way. And that's a very painful process. And so, yeah, we're not saying it's better or worse, we're just saying that it's just hard. Yeah, you know, and it's a painful process no matter what, but the goodbye may affect your grief in some ways.

Brad Quillen 15:07

So when you say that goodbye piece, what if can we find some common ground here and regardless of the how someone died, but the reality that all people that are grieving are facing the challenge and of that absence. And so what are some things that we can find common ground on?

Shared Ground: Meaningful Conversations

Erin Nelson 15:24

Well, I think when we're talking about a goodbye, we're talking about opportunities for meaningful conversations, right? We're talking about this expression of love and addressing anything that maybe we've never talked about before. I'll give an example of um something that happened in my life and um when I met my husband Brian now. Um, like, well, my husband, who is my husband today, I should say. And when I met him, I was, you know, I had been married to Tyler, and I called Tyler's dad dad. And so I already had a name for him, and I called him dad. And so when I met Brian's dad, I felt really awkward calling him dad. But then we never really like transitioned from like calling him like Mr. Nelson or John, and I really never settled on a name for him after all the years that we were there. And I'll never forget as he was dying, I was with him, and it I was really having this very long goodbye where I was expressing my love and I was saying thank you. And he was so instrumental in my healing um after Tyler died, and I just appreciated having such a wonderful father-in-law, and I was I was his caregiver in his cancer and as he died. And so when he was dying, I said, Hey, I just want to say something to you. I've never really mentioned this before, but I never really knew what to call you. And now that you're dying, I just want to say, I'm so sorry that we didn't ever have this conversation that I didn't know I didn't ever call you John or Dad or Mr. Nelson, or we never really settled on that. And I really regret that. And it was just my way of having this conversation that really needed to happen. I knew he knew that and I knew that, but we never had that conversation. There's something about the safety of someone that's kind of going into eternity. You don't have that awkward and awkwardness anymore. Everything is stripped away, right? You're in this very important moment that you can say all those unsaid things that you've wanted to say, that maybe it's just like you just don't know how to bring it up in just everyday life. And so some of those pieces are part of the goodbye, just to say, hey, we've never talked about this before, but we both know like this has happened, right? And so it's just an opportunity to have more intimate conversations.

Creating Goodbyes After The Fact

Brad Quillen 18:11

So, Aaron, as you were talking, I couldn't help but think and Colleen, how do people have a goodbye if they didn't have a chance? Or there might be people that are listening that go, I was able to say goodbye, but knowing what I know today, I would say so much more. Or I would, because as you were just saying, Aaron, our your guard was down and just had honest conversation with John. And so how do people go back and have a conversation? Because they're not here. But how how can they go through that saying goodbye?

Colleen Montague 18:39

A goodbye doesn't have to happen at the moment of death to still be meaningful. I know it's not quite the same, but it's still okay to create an opportunity after the fact. And so families can come together and create a ritual or a practice that honors what they wish they could have said. We've seen this done through writing letters, creating memory boxes, visiting a meaningful place to your person, um, or even holding a private little ceremony can be helpful. These retroactive goodbyes, if you will, they're just as valid. And it doesn't matter when it happens, even if it's been weeks or months or or years, if you're still filling that void from not having had the opportunity, it might be worth considering it. And especially for your children who benefit from concrete creative ways to express what they didn't get to say, this can still be really helpful for them too.

Erin Nelson 19:45

I think when we're talking about these goodbyes, we don't have to think of it as one time. And these goodbyes can continue. And there may be times, and I know as we kind of go. To the break. I know we'll talk a little bit about kids, but you know, I really like what you're saying, Colleen, with your children, that you can continue to just bring that up. Like, you know, saying like what I wish I could say, what I wish I would have said, and I'll never forget this. And thank you for, and I'm sorry that whatever it is, we can continue those conversations over time for us as parents and caregivers and also for our children.

Brad Quillen 20:35

Yeah, and Aaron Colling, thanks for this. And as Aaron just mentioned, we're gonna take a quick break and come back and talk about how do we help create and honor saying goodbye with our children.

Gary Shriver 20:46

Jessica's House is a children's bereavement center located in California's Central Valley since 2012. We provide free peer support for children, teens, young adults, and their families grieving a loss. The When Grief Comes Home podcast goes along with the book of the same name. The book When Grief Comes Home is a gentle guide for parents who are grieving a partner or child while helping their children through the loss of their parent or sibling. When Grief Comes Home is now available at all major book retailers. And if you need grief-related support, please visit jessica'shouse.org to download our free resources and be sure to follow Jessica's House on social media. If you have any questions or topics that you'd like us to explore in a future episode, just send us an email to info at jessica's house.org.

The Kids’ Time Machine Practice

Brad Quillen 21:38

Well, welcome back. And as we continue, I wanted to share something with those of you that are listening that Aaron and Colleen and I were talking about just a moment ago. And that's here at Jessica's House. We have a space in the building where kids can actually go into a time machine that is built in one of our rooms. And inside of that time machine, there's a phone, there's a whiteboard, there's actual dials to where kids can go back to a date on a digital board. They can set the date they want to go back to. They could even go forward. Um, and there's different ways in which those kids can go back and say something they wish they might have had a chance to say. And hundreds of kids have been inside that time machine over the year. But there's also the reality of we've done that same kind of idea just with paper. You don't have to have a time machine built in your house or, you know, as we have here. But we want you as listeners to know that there's always a chance to say goodbye again. And we've talked about that a little bit, but just again with that with kiddos, that sometimes they wanted to say something more or different and wish they had a second chance. So there's always that opportunity.

Erin Nelson 22:42

There's always that opportunity, and it's such a gift to be with children, and we can ask them, do you want to put the time back? And if you could go back, is there anything that you want to say? They can call them. We have a little, we have a telephone in there. We always joke that they don't know what that is. It has a cord, it has a cord on it. And we have this space where they can write something on a whiteboard, or they can, you know, go back in time and even call someone on the phone. And one time we have a group that is our families affected by overdose group, and people have died because of an accidental overdose. And we had a child who said, I want to go back in time and say to my dad, don't take that pill. And you know, sometimes there are unexpressed sentiments that we didn't just get a chance to say, right? And they're thinking about that. And so these are opportunities in their goodbye or something that they wish they could have said, and then we can give them a chance to say whatever it is um that they need to say.

Brad Quillen 24:00

Just that question. What do you wish you could have said?

Places That Help Kids Connect

Erin Nelson 24:03

Yeah, and we never know how they'll interpret that and what they'll need um to express something that is currently unexpressed.

Colleen Montague 24:12

So with what you said, Brad, about even just getting a pen and paper and having them draw a time machine from their imagination and and write within it those things they wish they could have said, you're giving them permission and you're showing your child that yeah, you have these thoughts, you have these wishes, and it's okay. And let's talk about it. And it also gives you some insight into the questions they might be holding or the regrets.

Erin Nelson 24:40

Yeah, I really like that. And something that um I we heard about was just having a jar in your house, and it's you can just call it the wish I could tell you j jar. And maybe these are wish I could tell you about when they were alive, or maybe even the things that are happening right now, and so anything that you can do to keep those conversations going, and it's just that we always have things that we wish we could tell someone, right? Even if you're living with them every day, you don't say the things that you really want to say most of the time, right? And so having an opportunity to say those things is so important.

Brad Quillen 25:26

And I've heard over the years working with the families that sometimes the place is a big deal for some kiddos. Maybe I I a mom once said they'd her daughter would just go sit in her dad's truck and that's where they would talk. You know, or the closet. And he's in closet. Well, that's where their clothes are, and some kids would just grab the clothes or sit next to them or buy their shoes, and that sounds kind of different, but you know, as we do this work, we get that. Or uh a few weeks ago, family talked about going to a place in Monterey, California that's out by us that they wanted to go to a certain beach, so that's where mom loved to go. And so that was their chance. And the kids wanted to go there. And uh, a parent years ago talked about uh my son wanted to go back to the spot where his dad would fish all the time up on one of the rivers here locally, and that he just wanted to go sit on a couple of the rocks, and that was his chance to just sit, you know, and have those conversations and go back in time, like we're talking about. I wish they could go back and put those those chances to connect in those spots.

Colleen Montague 26:25

Yeah, and in those spots where they feel a connection to them or feel closer to them. Absolutely.

Brad Quillen 26:32

So, Colleen, let me ask you this is it beneficial for kids to maybe if they are writers or drawers to kind of be in the space that they're they want a a place for them to connect with that person. Does that kind of give them a chance to kind of sink in and and uh connect with that person as they do those things?

Colleen Montague 26:51

Yeah, absolutely. It deepens their experience and their connection with them. Writing really helps your brain to organize your thoughts and your feelings and just getting it down on paper or drawing a picture. It's you know, taking the experience, but how can you deepen it? Or how can you create your own moment even if you're not in a spot, you know, such as your dad's favorite place or whatnot. You know, we've talked about planting a tree and that becomes a place that you now can go to that honors your person, um, or creating a box of photos and memories or items of places um or of memories that you had with them that you can, you know, literally visit by opening up the lid and looking through those objects and honoring your connection to them in that way.

The Relationship Continues After Death

Letter Prompts For Unsaid Words

Brad Quillen 27:43

Colleen, I appreciate what you're saying because it made me think of uh one of the things that we'll say often around the house, it's from Dr. Alan Wolfeld, it's though the life may have ended, the relationship doesn't, right? And so there's that that relationship is always, it's always your mom, it's always your dad, your brother, whoever died, you know, just because the life ended doesn't mean they're not your brother anymore or not your sibling or or parent. But Aaron, I know you were talking a little bit before about a writing prompt for kids to be able to use, or or those that are kind of walking through this that wish they could maybe say something different or say a first goodbye.

Erin Nelson 28:19

Yeah. And as we've talked about kind of writing a goodbye letter, they could this could be something they continue to do, but one is I'm sorry that because they may have those pieces unexpressed. I wish I could change, I wish you, I wish I, I regret, I'm learning to forgive you for, or I'm learning to forgive myself for. So those writing prompts can really help them to express the unexpressed, and if they didn't get a chance to say the goodbye they wanted to and have the goodbye they wanted to have, then um, maybe these could help them along the way.

Brad Quillen 29:06

Aaron, I know there's something you wanted to share with our listeners today as we wrap up this podcast. Why don't you go ahead and take a moment?

Erin Nelson 29:12

Just as our listeners have given us really great feedback, I just want to say if you could just take a moment to rate our podcast and also write a review. It helps get it into the hands of those who need it most. And so every time you review a podcast, it goes up a little bit into ratings. And so if somebody just types in grief in a podcast search, they can find this podcast. And as we know that it's been so helpful for parents who are grieving, we want to get it into more hands. So please rate and review.

Brad Quillen 29:50

Thanks, Erin. And let me remind you: be sure to visit jessicashouse.org for more grief resources. And if you have any other topics or questions you'd like us to cover on this podcast, we welcome your email at info at jessica'shouse.org. Be sure to join us for the next episode of When Grief Comes Home.

Gary Shriver 30:09

Until then, we wish you well. Jessica's House is a children's bereavement center located in California's Central Valley since 2012. We provide free peer support for children, teens, young adults, and their families grieving a loss. The When Grief Comes Home podcast goes along with the book of the same name. The book When Grief Comes Home is a gentle guide for parents who are grieving a partner or child while helping their children through the loss of their parent or sibling. When Grief Comes Home is now available at all major book retailers. And if you need grief-related support, please visit jessica'shouse.org to download our free resources and be sure to follow Jessica's House on social media. If you have any questions or topics that you'd like us to explore in a future episode, just send us an email to info at jessicashouse.org. Thank you for joining us, and we'll see you next time for When Grief Comes Home.