Expressing Your Grief Through the Arts

Grief often steals our words, but the body keeps speaking. We open up about how loss rewires the nervous system, why kids struggle to “talk it out,” and what actually helps: safety you can feel, choices that restore control, and creative expression that carries what language can’t. With Erin Nelson and Colleen Montague from Jessica’s House, we break down the brain science in plain terms and show how warm light, soft seating, and even dinner can tell the body it’s safe enough to heal.

From there, we get practical. You’ll learn how to co-regulate before you communicate, using simple tools like 5‑4‑3‑2‑1 grounding, cross-body tapping, side-to-side swaying, weighted blankets, and sensory anchors like sour candy or an ice cube. We step outside, too—leaf hunts, star gazing, and lavender rubs make nature a ready-made regulation kit. For kids stuck in anger or freeze, we demonstrate safe outlets that match big energy: a DIY scream box, pool noodles, throwing ice, wall pushes, heavy lifts, stomps, and paper tears that transition into slower, calming motions.

Art becomes the bridge. Sand trays, blocks, drums, watercolors, clay, and quick scribbles let children tell complex stories without direct questions. “Colors of My Heart” invites mixed emotions to sit side by side. We model “sports casting” to witness play without judgment, and we take on the inner critic so creativity stays about process, not perfection. Along the way, we share what years in peer support have taught us: when kids have agency, adults show calm, and environments feel safe, expression turns pain into meaning.

If this conversation helps, please follow the show, share it with a friend who needs it, and leave a rating and review so more grieving families can find us. For free resources or to reach out, visit jessicashouse.org and email your questions to info@jessicashouse.org.

Order the book When Grief Comes Home https://a.co/d/ijaiP5L

For more information on Jessica’s House or for additional resources, please go to jessicashouse.org 

Transcript

Welcome And Purpose Of The Show

Gary Shriver 0:00

Hello, and welcome to When Grief Comes Home, a podcast dedicated to parents living through loss while supporting their child. Let's meet the team.

Erin Nelson 0:10

I'm Erin Nelson, founding executive director at Jessica's House.

Colleen Montague 0:14

Hi, I'm Colleen Montague, program director for Jessica's House and a licensed marriage and family therapist.

Brad Quillen 0:21

Hi, I'm Brad Quillen, and I'm the host of When Grief Comes Home.

Gary Shriver 0:25

This podcast goes along with the book of the same name. The book When Grief Comes Home is a gentle guide for parents who are grieving a partner or child while helping their children through the loss of their parent or sibling. When Grief Comes Home is now available at all major book retailers. Now let's go to the team as they share grief resources and coping skills, heartfelt stories and insights to support parents as they raise children who are grieving. Together, you'll find strength as we learn to live with loss and find ways to heal.

Grief, The Brain, And Lost Words

Brad Quillen 1:01

Hello, hello. It's Brad from Jessica's House. Today we're talking about how grief impacts our nervous system and body and how we can use creative expression in practical ways for our own healing. Erin and Colleen, I gotta say, when I first started at Jessica's House and the word art and trauma, I was very new, did know a lot of either one of those ideas, and especially how is art gonna help? Like I'm I'm just being honest. I always like this is gonna be a learning curve for me. But after doing this for over a decade now, what a difference giving kids the option to express through the arts, and I mean a various, a variety of ways, have I watched kids and adults be able to go deep and to express what they couldn't express when they first came in, especially through verbiage. And so we think of expression in verbiage a lot of the ways, but in grief, sometimes we can't express that, and some of that starts with trauma, with grief, with loss, and just kind of where we are in our headspace. And so, Erin, would you kind of unpack some of that idea of how trauma and how grief is stored in the body and in the mind? And we'll get to the art piece in a little bit, but start there.

Safety By Design: Environment Matters

Erin Nelson 2:08

Yeah, so the reason why we want to at Jessica's House give kids so many opportunities to express through the arts is that really the way trauma affects our brain is that um just that part of our brain called the prefrontal cortex that is responsible for language and reasoning, it really goes offline during trauma. So our memories are stored in a much more fragmented way. So when because of that, kids don't always have language to really even tell their story about what happened. And so at Jessica's House, we're never really pushing for words about how you feel or even about what happened. Um, I just think even in group, how we start group is in every group we have this little check-in sheet that has all these little images and all these boxes. And it could be that we have a heart, or maybe there's a roller coaster, or maybe there's a flower that looks like it's like drooping. Um, we have like an umbrella with rain, we have a rainbow with like partly cloudy and all different kinds of images, even a volcano. And so kids can really just point to that image and just kind of check in to say kind of how they're feeling today. So we're trying to really work within what we know about trauma and how their trauma memories are stored and how they can best express them to heal. And we're doing that at the very beginning of group. And so as we kind of talk today, just to kind of understand what is it that happens in your brain and your body when you have trauma.

Colleen Montague 3:59

So when we're talking about expressive art or therapeutically like expressive activities, a lot of that has to do with releasing those feelings or energies that we're kind of storing in our body that we experienced at the time of that traumatic event. You know, Gabor Mate says, you know, trauma, it's not about what happened to you, it's about what happened inside you as a result of what happened to you. So how your body perceived the experience. And so there will be future times, future moments where your body goes back into that thought that you're in danger or that you are going to re-experience that. And so you may have heard of that fight, flight, or freeze response that our body naturally goes into when it thinks it's in danger. But most oftentimes after that initial experience, that first experience, we're not actually in danger, but our body thinks it is. And when our body thinks it's in danger, it's it starts to shut down other areas that aren't as necessary. Um, and like Erin mentioned, you know, just that the thought doesn't make its way all the way up through the brain into that prefrontal cortex where you can logically sift through, no, I'm not actually in danger. It stops right there at the base of that spinal cord in your brain into the area where it's like, hey, I'm gonna get you out of here or I'm gonna help you fight. But when we're not in danger, when we are actually safe in our environment, we want to be able to support our body through those feelings. And so there's a lot of different things we can do. And I think we're gonna start today with just our environment, the the surroundings that we're in and the importance of being able to be in a space where you do feel safe in your body, feel safe and secure in the spot that you're in. Uh, you know, Aaron, I want to shift it to you. You put so much intentionality into that when helping design Jessica's house. There are a lot of things that you have put into place to help kids feel safe in their bodies. Because if they're not feeling safe in their body, in their air in the space they're in, they can't do any grief work. Can you, you know, share more of that with us?

Structure With Choice And Agency

Erin Nelson 6:13

Yeah, Colleen, so I think back um we have a new center that we've been in since 2021. But before that, we had this little house. And, you know, when people would walk in, they would say things like, you know, I just feel like when I walked in, the house gave me a hug. And, you know, what we've learned is that, you know, people don't always feel safe in a really big open environment with bright overhead lights, and you know, the imagine like a hotel ballroom. Like you wouldn't want to have an a very um like conver important, you know, connected conversation in a space like that. So our ceilings, um, we had a house that was built in the early 1900s, and the spaces were so beautiful as far as like some of the ceiling height and just the wood and the warmth of the house. And we really wanted to recreate that. But what we know is that you can't feel safe even if you tell a child they're safe. They have to feel safe on a sensory level. And what we knew just from research and then also from really observing our families for so many years is that it really helped to have lighting that was warm, that we were using just comfortable seat options, that we were offering food for them. Um, because as we know, if we are in that, you know, fight, flight, or freeze response, that we are not going to sit down and just eat. Our body naturally is going to really preserve our digestive system. And our digestive system really goes offline in some ways. So we don't many times feel like eating, we don't feel safe enough to eat. And so if we were in danger, we wouldn't eat. But if you are eating, you're signaling to your brain that you are safe. So we're starting with dinner all the time, and and that's such a big important part of our program.

Brad Quillen 8:14

Yeah, I was gonna say there's there's other pieces too, and I'm gonna ask you about two words, and that's options for kids when they're here at group, but um nothing's really rigid. Right. There's structure, but kind of talk about that too, and some of the things that we you purposely did as we first got started.

Erin Nelson 8:31

Yeah, and again, I really want to say I can't say enough about the Dougie Center, and they were the very first grief um program, and we really modeled after them. But the idea is that you do create a lot of structure, but also you're giving a lot of choice so that there is a sense of agency for a child who really didn't have a lot of choice in what happened to them. So anytime you can create choices, it really does help them to really regain their empowerment in so many ways. And so something that we do is of course we offer dinner together, and so families are coming together, they're having dinner, and then we're of course checking in with those images where they can choose how they feel today, and then we are introducing some type of question that's common to them, and it could even be, you know, much more memorial-based, where it's, you know, tell me um a funny memory of the person who died, something just to kind of get some connection going and create some commonality in the room. But then we're giving them all kinds of choices on where they want to go and what they want to do in um in the group. And so much of what we're doing is to just of course consider that everybody's very different because one child that wants to come into the room that we're in right now and maybe play some music, or we've had, I'll never forget, having these middles girls who just wrote very abstract poetry and created songs and rhythm out of that. You know, maybe it wasn't even really about the person who died or what happened. It was something, just feelings inside of them that they wanted to really express. And so we're just letting them create that and really get whatever's inside outside in the creative ways that really help them to feel better.

Brad Quillen 10:31

That are natural for them.

Erin Nelson 10:32

Absolutely.

Brad Quillen 10:33

Aaron, you're just talking about the child having all of the things they need to feel safe, but sometimes the person that they're with or a few people they're with might not feel safe because they're agitated or they're kind of unregulated in calling. That's a reality too. How do we help that co-regulation is a big word we talk about here at Jessica's house? How do we help kids feel that or even help adults be able to be in a good place to have meet kids where they are?

Co‑Regulation Before Communication

Colleen Montague 10:59

Yeah, it's such a good point, Brad. Think about somebody who is really anxious and think about how you feel after you spend time with them. And so for my own experience, I leave feeling anxious. I can I can feel the change in my body when I'm around them. I I'm regulating to them until I can be aware of that and then bring myself back into my own, like, no, I'm okay, you know, and use my own little ways to regulate. And so the same's true for your child, you know, how you're doing, your child can read that and feel feed off of you with that too. We have mirror neurons that we are basically just you know receptive to how each other are doing. And so if you notice that you're not in your best, you know, space and your body's really nervous, take a second, you know, bring calm to yourself. We've talked about different ways to do that with swinging side to side, crossing your arms over and giving yourself a few taps on the shoulder, squeezing your fists alternatingly, taking some deep breaths. Get yourself into a place where you feel calm and regulated first. And then you're gonna be able to do that with your child. They're gonna be able to co-regulate to how you're doing. And so really you are one of their resources to help bring calm to their body.

Brad Quillen 12:20

And when all that's in place, the art piece kind of comes into play. But how does that all work, Erin? Because talking seems to be just one facet of it. But over the years, as I've watched kids and been with adults, and I'm no art therapist, and art is not my first thing, but I've watched kids be able to put so much more into it than I than words would have ever. And so how does that work? Because it seems like they're able to tap into so many different things in their body and put those art pieces together or those poems or the music or or whatever the art pieces for that night.

Play, Sand Trays, And Story In Symbols

Erin Nelson 12:54

Yeah, and I think that's just the way their brains actually work, right? Play as a child's work, really, of being able to integrate a traumatic experience. And we've watched them do so much work, whether that is, you know, we have fire trucks and ambulances out and they're working and they're creating something, and um, in they're communicating about their story, but they're doing in a way where they're the ones manipulating whatever's going on, or they may be drawing, you know, bilaterally where they're using both of their hands to actually do some work and um draw something and draw circles or whatever it might be. So some of it is actually helping to calm their bodies in some ways, and it really helps them feel empowered. I remember a child in my group one time when I asked her what helped her feel better. She draw, she drew herself playing with blocks. And even just the act of building something and having that control of what is that going to look like helped her feel better. We never know what it will be, but putting out art supplies, putting out all of the manipulatives that they might need, like Colleen mentioned with a sand tray, giving children access to different materials of art and different kinds of toys that they can use can really help them because what we know is just those memories, like we said before, that are stored in their brain and those regions that don't have language, they need to find other ways to tell their story. At Jessica's house, we have a sand tray room, we have a circular sand tray, and they can get all kinds of different objects and figurines to tell a story in the sand. And sometimes it's very abstract. And they may be just, I had a child who was putting a lot of dinosaurs in the in pods, they said, and then they had one really big, like predatory dinosaur that was m roaming around, and they wanted to express that if you're with other people or in your pod in some ways, um, that you're safer than you know, you're safe from the um more scary dinosaur. So you just never know kind of what they need to express at that time, but you can give them opportunities to express that.

Brad Quillen 15:34

And I would say there's so much more depth and richness in in their art and their ways they express than just the verbal communication over the years as I've sat with more adults, but when I've done work with kids, it's amazing what comes to the top.

Erin Nelson 15:50

Definitely. One of the very first art expression activities that we offer to a child then when they come to Jessica's House is something called colors of my heart. Because we want them to know that you have all different emotions, you know, that you are experiencing after someone dies. You may be scared and angry and also relieved and um really sad, like we don't know, but they can just take all different colors and crayons and oil pastels and markers, whatever they want to use, and color in this cardboard heart that we have. And on the back, they can put a key and really show what different emotions they have. And then that opens up conversations where we can kind of organize that in a way to say, hey, you know, you can be relieved that someone's no longer in pain and also really sad that they died, and you can have those same feelings at the same time. And so as they express what they're feeling, then you can have a little bit better conversations about what that was like for them.

Brad Quillen 16:57

And sometimes calling the body expresses through movement and that creation piece. And sometimes it's pounding clay, or we've had kids throw ice on the sidewalk for to get the anger out. But can you express a little bit about that with the idea of the movement?

Movement, Materials, And Sensation

Colleen Montague 17:13

Yeah, really, it's that the body, like you said, is expressing through movement or creation what it's holding, but it can't articulate. They can't, the kids can't put to words. I think even that can be true for us as adults. Like we can sense how we're feeling, but we can't maybe always put words to the why. And so giving other opportunities, other mediums, other ways to just explore it. You know, even just grabbing a a piece of paper and um a colored pencil. There's a little bit of resistance with a colored pencil when you're putting it across a paper versus a marker. So even the tool that you're using, but scribbling it out, just putting, just putting energy into it.

Brad Quillen 17:57

Give them 30 seconds to just scribble.

Colleen Montague 17:59

Yeah, scribble like crazy, you know, whatever they need to do just to really move that that energy out of their body. And then also with how they're doing it, the resistance on the page, you know, crayons can give some a little bit of resistance. Whereas if you're wanting to do something a little bit more um fluid and and maybe calming, maybe watercolors is more the way to go. And you know, you mentioned clay, Erin, and there's such a benefit to just working with clay versus Plato. Plato's, you know, Plato's good too, but clay has more resistance to it. Clay feels cool to the touch. Your body's gonna notice that, your hands, kneading that out. That's something you can do with your kids at the table, kneading the clay, pounding it, you know, kind of flinging it onto the table, hearing the thud, rolling it into a ball, and then slowly and gently, then churning down the energy into a little more of a slow movement. Once they feel ready, let them pound it out as long as they need. But then you roll it into kind of a snake. And then after that, what do you want to create? Let's create something and just let them see what comes out and start to notice what they're doing out loud. Oh, okay. I see you're swirling it all in a big, big, you know, spiral. What what is that? Tell me what that is. What does that represent? Or and so then being able to finish with some like it's the whole process of it and then what they end up with at the end, too.

Erin Nelson 19:35

Yeah, one of the activities um that we do at Jessica's House that I really like is kids who will, you know, create maybe an animal out of clay. And then we could just ask them that simple question as, you know, what what does your animal need to feel safe? And so as we're talking about, you know, reflecting on what we need to feel that felt sense of safety, then Can also reflect on that even for their animal. It's like, do they need a blanket? Do they need some food? Do they need some water? Do they need a safe habitat? Maybe some long grass that so nobody can see them. It's like we don't know. But we can explore that and be curious and help them take the lead in that and really reflect. I know I had a child once um playing Lagos and he just said, I said, Well, what does your person need to feel safe? And he said he needed a grandma and a couch and a TV and a window and a tree outside his window. And so, like, I didn't know that's what he needed to feel safe, but it was like he really explained what that was like. But he didn't have to tell his story. He got to just reflect on his felt need of safety. And just that helps him think about what is what does everyday you know need to look like? What are those elements in his life that help him feel better?

Grounding Tools And Nature Practices

Colleen Montague 21:02

Yeah, and and sometimes externalizing it feels safer for a child to, you know, not make it all all about them, but what does that animal need? What does that stuffed animal need? And so it can feel safer to talk about that and and share what they think that one needs or to relate it to themselves versus sharing it directly to how they're doing or what their needs are.

Brad Quillen 21:28

Because we do an art where we talk about an animal in their habitat. And what do they need in their habitat to feel safe? Hey, we're going to take a quick break. When we come back, we're going to continue to give you some ideas on some of those art practices and some of those other ways that kids can express themselves, but even continuing the conversation on some of those soothing and grounding practices that we can help with our kittens.

Gary Shriver 21:49

Jessica's House is a children's bereavement center located in California's Central Valley since 2012. We provide free peer support for children, teens, young adults, and their families grieving a loss. The When Grief Comes Home podcast goes along with the book of the same name. The book When Grief Comes Home is a gentle guide for parents who are grieving a partner or child while helping their children through the loss of their parent or sibling. When Grief Comes Home is now available at all major book retailers. And if you need grief-related support, please visit jessicashouse.org to download our free resources and be sure to follow Jessica's House on social media. If you have any questions or topics that you'd like us to explore in a future episode, just send us an email to info@jessicashouse.org.

Brad Quillen 22:40

Well, as we come back from the break, Erin, would you mind giving a few ideas and ways in which adults parents can help ground and kind of bring their kids back down? Sometimes they get a little agitated or we get worked up as we start to talk about grief.

Channeling Anger Into Safe Actions

Erin Nelson 22:55

Yeah, I really like what Colleen was saying earlier about, you know, helping to co-regulate. And so as the parent or caregiver, we can calm ourselves first. And and even to do something kind of one of our go-tos at Jessica's House is that 54321, where maybe with you and your child, you can just say, hey, let's name five things we see. Um maybe um four things that we hear, three things we can touch, and just going into some type of activity that brings awareness and can really stop whatever it is if they are worried. It really helps them to not be either worried about the future or about something else that happened in the past, but to come into that present moment and to um just think about your environment for a second. Something that kids a lot of times really will enjoy is just being able to activate their vestibular system with movement. Sometimes that's side to side. We have a little cocoon swing at Jessica's house where kids like to climb in and we'll just kind of just go side to side, and I'll even give them a choice. Do you want to go front to back or side to side? And it can really help them find calm in their body. Many times it's a weighted blanket that they just want to put over their shoulders. They can even have um different sensory kinds of candy, um, like sour candy, can bring you into that present moment because you're just all in with that sensation in your mouth. And maybe even, you know, a some even holding on to a cold ice cube can bring that. And so whatever we can do to bring ourselves into that present moment can really help.

Brad Quillen 24:49

You use the word environment. Can you just talk about outside or the outdoors and how that can be a piece of that?

Erin Nelson 24:56

Yeah, so just being outside, being in nature can be so regulating for a child. And um, you know, whether you take sensory walks in nature's and you go through 54321 outside, or maybe you're actually looking for something right now. We are experiencing fall in the Central Valley of California. There are so many leaves on the ground, you can find different colors, different shapes. And um, you know, or maybe like I did with my grandchild last night, we were looking at the stars and they were hoping for a shooting star. And we just spent so much time out by the fire, and they were just looking in the sky, and it's like just having that experience of being in nature can really help them to just have a little sense of just being in that moment, and also just it really does help and also exploring. We have a garden here at Jessica's House, and sometimes we'll go outside and we'll rub the lavender and smell it. So, um, or we'll pick a lemon off the tree and they can taste how sour it is and just different kinds of experiences that they can have.

Brad Quillen 26:10

Yeah. Hey, Colleen, as Erin was talking about this, it made me think that sometimes there's just some angst in kids and some nerves, but then sometimes there's just aggression and big, big feelings. And so, how do we how do we kind of tackle that and kind of help kids to understand that that's a piece of energy that's in their body in some ways?

Colleen Montague 26:30

Yeah, I think that I like the shift that we're making as a society that anger isn't bad. It's what you do with it that matters. And so the same is true for aggression. It doesn't have to be destructive, but we just naturally have these this really big energy in our body. And so if we want to move that out of our body, we probably need to match it in its force. So it's a big energy. Let's get it out in a big way. And so, do you need to yell? We have a little scream box here we make with the kids where a little package from Amazon, you can shove some paper towels in it and then a paper towel holder coming out of the end, and they can scream into it. The scream is muffled, but the energy is not. But it it moves it through their body.

Brad Quillen 27:15

They can use a pillow at home too, like right. It's like right now they need something. Go use your pillow.

Sports Casting And Being A Witness

Colleen Montague 27:20

Absolutely. Use the pillow. Um, you can buy a pool noodle, even if you don't have a pool, but let them hit the wall with it. Let them go outside and hit it the side of the house with the pool noodle, getting that energy out of their body. I love grabbing ice from the freezer and go outside and throw it at the ground. That doesn't hurt anybody. It doesn't break anything, but it does get that energy out of your body. And so when we are giving kids permission to move that energy in those ways, in a healthier way, not yelling at someone, not hitting someone else, it really just gives them permission to have those feelings inside of them too, and shows them what to do with it. I will say, when you're sitting at your desk at school and you're feeling angry, you don't have a pillow to scream into, you don't have a pool noodle, but you have your two fists, the palms of your hands, I should say. And if you put your two palms together, you could do that right at your desk. Nobody would know what you're doing and push them against each other. Feel the pressure on your arms as you do that. Imagine you're pushing out those big feelings, and then relax your arms again, and you can feel a difference in that tension in your body. So, really, it's all about just giving kids so many different little tools that could help them depending on the environment they're in.

Erin Nelson 28:34

I think too, as kids can um really get stuck in that freeze response. And so giving them that permission to any kind of stuck energy, it's really about like moving that energy out. And so letting them know that that kind of empowering feeling that they actually need because they are feeling stuck and they are feeling frozen, some of those big muscle, whatever it is, lift something really heavy, push against a wall, using those big muscles really helps move them out of that freeze response.

Colleen Montague 29:09

But that's like bringing in the opposite. They're feeling weak or stuck or powerless. And you're saying to bring, allow that big energy to counter that for them and noticing the difference in their body, just like you've taught me about power poses and the impact that can make the way you hold your body, the bigness that you bring into your body, standing like superwoman or superman, and how effective that is for the brain.

Erin Nelson 29:36

It really does shift you out of that feeling of powerlessness to feeling empowered. And for a child with trauma, they need to feel, they need to experience that. And um, you know, it's like even tearing, you know, sheets of paper and crumpling it up, throwing it across the room, stomping, all of those things can help them to really kind of shift shift that energy into something a little more productive.

Brad Quillen 30:03

Can I ask a question? Shouldn't we expect anger and grief?

Erin Nelson 30:06

Oh, yeah.

Brad Quillen 30:07

Because we're upset about what's happened.

Quieting The Inner Critic In Art

Erin Nelson 30:10

Absolutely. I mean, anger is part of protest and protest is part of grief. We never wanted this to happen. And even, you know, I would say rage, yeah, you know, and to be able to scream it out, and we've talked about that so much in this podcast, but just to welcome it and to normalize it, something that we like to do here at Jessica's House is to sports cast, and which means it's just really kind of seeing what you're seeing. And you know, that really brings a lot of non-judgmental kind of a welcoming kind of environment for a child, you know, when you're listening to a sports caster, he's not necessarily telling you what team he's on, right? He's just saying what happened. And so we can do that. And when a child is stomping their feet, we could just say, Oh, you're stomping your feet. And um, oh yeah, now you're you're now you're really pushing and you're really picking that up, and that's uh and that's really heavy, and you're picking that up right now. You could, you know, if they're playing, you can say that car that red car is crashing into the blue car, or that dinosaur is just knocking everything down right now. And so whatever it is that they're doing, you're non-judgmentally just saying what you're seeing, and they know that however they're playing, that it's okay, and that you're welcoming it and you're just noticing it, and you're not bringing any judgment to it.

Brad Quillen 31:41

And when you're sports casting, are you witnessing?

Erin Nelson 31:43

You're just witnessing, you're just being with. And it's an amazing thing, just that attunement, how that helps you feel understood and seen. Kids love to be mirrored. They want to know and they'll look to you to see if you're noticing. Yeah, you know, how many parents that are listening have ever been, you know, pool side with a child. You know, how many times do they say watch me, watch me, watch this? Yeah. They want you to watch them. And when you are watching them, sports casting is one way to just say, I see you, I see you, I see you, I'm watching, I'm with you. And so you're you're just uh saying that in your words.

Colleen Montague 32:31

It really simplifies it because you don't have to interpret or analyze, you are just noticing. Exactly. Because kids, they're already doing the work within as they're expressing and playing something out or drawing something out. And so they're the ones doing the work within, and you're the one that gets to notice.

Erin Nelson 32:56

You're noticing and also like you mentioned earlier, Colleen, when you're giving a safe distance, when if you're saying to your child, oh, you're angry, you know, you seem really angry, then you're collapsing that safe distance. But if you're just saying you're stomping your feet, then they're teaching you something, but you're not interpreting it. You're just being with what is in front of you. And like you said, Brad, it is that witnessing. And so it can be so overwhelming for a child to be um, you know, when something's addressed directly and you're interpreting what you're seeing as how they feel, and you're naming how you think they feel, but maybe that's not how they feel.

Brad Quillen 33:43

Is it safe to say it's um being seen versus being judged?

Erin Nelson 33:47

Absolutely.

Brad Quillen 33:48

Yeah. So, Erin, let me ask you one other question as we kind of wrap up. At the beginning of the podcast, I made a comment and I've made it a couple of times, that I'm no artist, I'm no art therapist. It was always kind of hard for me when I first started at Jessica's House. It wasn't comfortable to me to do the art piece sometimes or even to explain it. And so it just wasn't natural for me. But in all of us, there's this thing that we talk about, this idea of an inner critic. For me, it's art, music. It's just kind of not where you know my my brain is. I'm better with my hands in different ways, but we all kind of have that inner critic. And so can we just acknowledge that? And then you kind of just walk us through what that means, but how do we also help address that in our kiddos?

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Erin Nelson 34:31

Yeah, I know when when people hear art so much of the time, that's their first thought, right? They turn it off. Yeah, it's just like, but we all have that inner critic, and I think when it comes to the sensory-based arts and those expressive arts, we really do have to kind of silence our inner critic and put them aside. And some, you know, a part of how we can do that as a parent is to really suspend all judgment on whether whatever they're creating is good or not. And that's kind of hard to do sometimes because maybe you've said, oh, good job, or whatever, you know, they're doing and you're encouraging your kids in other ways, but you're not really praising your child's completed project. You're really just honoring the process of the creativity and the expression, and that it's really is about expression, it's not about perfection. And even with maybe it is, you know, rhythm work and we're creating a rhythm as we've talked about before, as we sit here in our Juskiss House music room, we have all these drums all around us, and you know, but we all have a heartbeat, so we have rhythm inside of us, right? And so much of these expressive arts that have been used for so long, even in ancient times, that have been so healing. If you think about the inside of a cave and the history that's been depicted and the wars that have been drawn and the trauma that has been, you know, just painted. That we've always done this, you know, to heal. And also that beauty is one of those parts of um grief that comes, you know, like that creativity, whatever it is, you know, you somebody may write a song or write a poem, write a book, you know, create music. And that is how we're transformed is taking our grief and our pain and creating art out of it in some ways. And so there's beauty, it's um, it doesn't have to be judged or anything like that, but there's something really beautiful about the expression, and it's such an important part of our healing and to do it imperfectly, to do it in a messy way, and but just to honor that healing part of that authentic expression is so important.

Brad Quillen 36:56

Erin, I know there's something you wanted to share with our listeners today as we wrap up this podcast. Why don't you go ahead and take a moment?

Erin Nelson 37:03

Just as our listeners have given us really great feedback, I just want to say if you could just take a moment to rate our podcast and also write a review. It helps get it into the hands of those who need it most. And so every time you review a podcast, it goes up a little bit into ratings. And so if somebody just types in grief in a podcast search, they can find this podcast. And as we know that it's been so helpful for parents who are grieving, we want to get it into more hands. So please rate and review.

Brad Quillen 37:41

Thanks, Erin. And let me remind you: be sure to visit jessicashouse.org for more grief resources. And if you have any other topics or questions you'd like us to cover on this podcast, we welcome your email at info@jessicashouse.org. Be sure to join us for the next episode of When Grief Comes Home.

Gary Shriver 38:00

Until then, we wish you well. Jessica's House is a children's bereavement center located in California's Central Valley since 2012. We provide free peer support for children, teens, young adults, and their families grieving a loss. The When Grief Comes Home podcast goes along with the book of the same name. The book When Grief Comes Home is a gentle guide for parents who are grieving a partner or child while helping their children through the loss of their parent or sibling. When Grief Comes Home is now available at all major book retailers. And if you need grief-related support, please visit jessicashouse.org to download our free resources and be sure to follow Jessica's House on social media. If you have any questions or topics that you'd like us to explore in a future episode, just send us an email to info@jessicashouse.org. Thank you for joining us, and we'll see you next time for When Grief Comes Home.