God Meets Us In Our Suffering

The ground can drop out in a single phone call—or grind away over months of scans and unanswered pain. We sit down with pastors and co-authors Rolf Jacobson and Michael Pancost to talk about cancer, grief, and the fierce honesty that keeps families tethered when life breaks open. Their friend and co-author Carl died before the manuscript was finished, and that loss threads through every story with clarity and care: no platitudes, no shortcuts, just presence, prayer, and practical help.

We unpack the shock of 30 days in the hospital with no contact, the logistics of telling a spouse and children—sometimes over Zoom—and the relief of using CaringBridge to share updates without reliving the news on repeat. Rolf and Michael share how truth-telling builds trust with kids, why some friends disappear and others draw close, and how side-by-side companionship multiplies joys and divides sorrows. If you’ve ever asked where God is in a chemo ward, their answer is simple and hard-won: right there, in the hand you’re holding.

Scripture becomes a map, not an umbrella. We linger with Psalm 23 and the Psalms of lament, learning to pray both praise and protest. “You are with me” moves off the page into late nights, waiting rooms, and milestone meals that feel like mini-banquets in the presence of enemies. And yes—there’s laughter. Not as denial, but as oxygen. From cracked jokes in tense rooms to Seinfeld’s wisdom on humor as a life skill, they show how joy and sorrow can share the same table without canceling each other.

If you’re navigating cancer, supporting someone who is, or searching for language that holds grief and hope together, this conversation offers grounding practices, theological depth, and humane encouragement. Listen, share it with a caregiver, and tell us what line or ritual carries you on the hardest days. If our work helps you feel less alone, subscribe, leave a review, and pass this along to someone who needs it.

Order the book When Grief Comes Home https://a.co/d/ijaiP5L

For more information on Jessica’s House or for additional resources, please go to jessicashouse.org 

Transcript

Welcome And Mission

Gary Shriver 0:00

Hello, and welcome to When Grief Comes Home, a podcast dedicated to parents living through loss while supporting their child. Let's meet the team.

Rolf Jacobson 0:10

I'm Erin Nelson, founding executive director at Jessica's House.

Colleen Montague 0:14

Hi, I'm Colleen Montague, program director for Jessica's House and a licensed marriage and family therapist.

Brad Quillen 0:21

Hi, I'm Brad Quillen, and I'm the host of When Grief Comes Home.

Gary Shriver 0:25

This podcast goes along with the book of the same name. The book When Grief Comes Home is a gentle guide for parents who are grieving a partner or child while helping their children through the loss of their parent or sibling. When Grief Comes Home is now available at all major book retailers. Now let's go to the team as they share grief resources and coping skills, heartfelt stories and insights to support parents as they raise children who are grieving. Together, you'll find strength as we learn to live with loss and find ways to heal.

Brad Quillen 1:01

Hello, hello. It's Brad from Jessica's House. We're honored today to welcome Dr. Rolf Jacobson and Michael Pancoast, two of the three authors of God Meets Us in Our Suffering, a hope and encouragement for those journeying through cancer. This book emerged from a profound time of when Michael and Karl, the co-authors, were going through cancer. In the midst of writing the book, Karl died, which lends an additional layer of meaning to what's within these pages. Before we dive into the book itself, we'd like to share a bit about how this project came to be. Can you guys tell us a little bit about that?

Why Share The Diagnosis Early

Rolf Jacobson 1:36

Each of us uh had cancer.

Brad Quillen 1:39

And what did you learn from how that cancer diagnosis changes everything with the people, you know, around you as the patient?

Rolf Jacobson 1:46

I think the first thing to do, in my uh my humble opinion, is is not to keep secrets. My uh I'm not sure my my wife, uh um, my loving wife of 31 years, um, uh she might not agree with me fully if she were the one who were sick. But when I was the one who was sick, uh then in 2007, I had a late life reoccurrence. Well, uh she put it on carrying bridge without my permission. Um I was waiting, I was again at Mayo Clinic, and I before I could uh get get uh they told us it was cancer, but you got to go do these tests before we can do surgery, you know, or to you know, get an echocardiogram and stuff like that. So just before I was going in for the echo, which takes about an hour, she goes, Oh, I put it this on hearing bridge. I hope that's okay. I said, What? It is not okay. I went in, uh I I come out an hour later. She goes, a hundred people have already responded. And I'm like, okay, that's a hundred people I don't have to call.

Brad Quillen 2:47

Yeah.

Rolf Jacobson 2:48

Social media can be good for one or two things, actually, people. Uh and one of those is it it um you can communicate uh without having to do the wear and tear of because everybody has the same questions. All right, so oh, I have cancer. Oh, wait a second. What caused it?

Michael Pancoast 3:06

What's the treatment? Is it what's the prognosis? What's the stage?

Telling Kids Across Distance

Rolf Jacobson 3:10

Have you thought about changing your diet? You should go plant-based, right? I mean, and so instead of having to have those conversations every time, carrying bridge and other vehicles like that um really are helpful. What was the conversation like? I've never this they asked a great question. When you had to tell uh Carrie, oh, by the way, I have lymphoma, um, you've uh how'd that go over?

Michael Pancoast 3:32

Well, um it I it it was the lightning bolt, right? Because of the the the kind of slow buildup, the lump in my neck and and at Thanksgiving, the pain that developed in in January. We were going for medical treatment together at at that point. Um when I had the pain that took me to the emergency room the first time in the middle of the middle of January, they did the x-rays and and all that sort of thing, and said, uh, we think you need to uh check in with your primary care provider, um ASAP. Um and of course on my phone I had gotten the results from the x-ray suspected lymphoma. Um and um so carry at least was a part of that process at the moment that the lightning bolt uh struck. What was more of a challenge for us, our kids were um young adults at that point. Um we had um two in college. Um one was uh uh uh a year on a volunteer stint at a um uh a camp out in Washington State, the same place actually where Carl's wife was when he was diagnosed. Um so my son and Carl's wife were together at this place in in Washington State uh when Carl's news had already broken. Um Carrie and I gathered our kids via Zoom, um two at college in Moorhead, one in remote Washington state, and our youngest still in high school at home. We talked to our youngest face-to-face there, um, and you know, broke the news uh to her that way, um, and then gathered the rest. We had scheduled. We had been doing this periodically anyway, through COVID and um getting our our kids and our family together in a similar forum as what we're doing right here, um, just to check in and and see how things are going and uh all that all that kind of stuff. Um I it it it took us days, Carrie and I, to to figure out exactly how are we going to to to to do this. For Eleanor, our youngest, when we broke the news to her face to face, I mean you you it I'll never forget that. The the the blood that disappeared from her face and and the the the look of of of utter shock um that immediately um just melted into into tears and and sobbing the three of us, uh the three of us together. When we gathered the kids uh via Zoom, um our our household is uh is a pretty boisterous, laughter-filled, uh joyful place. And um that was kind of the immediate default uh when we all got together and everybody had been working on their material, so to speak, that they wanted to trot out and try and you know, their one-liners and their their gags and all of that. Um and Eleanor, our youngest, just was practically stonefaced through this whole experience. Um, and then there came a moment where we just sort of had to one, two, three rip the bandage off and say, There's something we need to tell you. And um the laugh, the the gags continued because I think one of our daughters said, Um, you're getting a divorce, and then somebody else said, Oh, two Christmases. Um and you know, we we had to say, no, no, it's not that at all. And here's what it is. And there was just this, it felt like forever of unbroken silence as that news kind of worked its way into their hearts and minds. But it was those two days of trying to figure out how to do it, that it was our realization was we got to just say it. Yeah, just tell the truth.

Truth Without Platitudes

Erin Nelson 7:35

I really appreciate you talking about the truth because that's something that we talk a lot about at Jessica's house with children and how much they want to know the truth. And they want to know the truth about a diagnosis, they want to know the truth about how someone died and what happened. And so thank you for speaking about that and for modeling that for your children to um, and also it helps them to establish like who do I talk to about something and who will tell me the truth in this lifetime? Well, it's my dad, you know, he will tell me the truth, and I know when I go to him, he will tell me what's going on. And so, whatever it might be is your disease, you know, as you go into treatment or whatever it is, it really helps eliminate those fears or even calm those fears because they know that no matter what, you will be honest with them.

Michael Pancoast 8:27

In in our tradition of of you know, following Jesus in the in a Lutheran way, um, Martin Luther writes about um theologi being a theologian of the cross. Maybe not exactly in those words, but one of the things that he that he speaks of, that he writes about is a theologian of the cross calls a thing for what it is. Um you know, we we we don't use language like um every cloud has a silver lining, or or I'm sure that God has a lesson for you in in that, all of which we we would tend to um reject as um, well, you could use your word to go there. Um but but rather that the the the reality and truth of the matter is where God begins to meet us in the midst of that of that suffering.

Erin Nelson 9:16

Yes.

Rolf Jacobson 9:16

Can I follow up on that real uh I'll try to be brief, which is what uh when I was diagnosed in 1980, my sister Ann, with whom I was very close, was on a in college on a semester in Thailand. And so there's this in 1980. Uh and so Mike brings up how do you tell kids who or siblings who are not local? Um and so I think um we I don't think my sister Ann to this day thinks my parents did a very good job of staying in touch with her. Uh because uh so we did it, we had a great, we arranged somehow a uh a very brief like 10-minute phone call, which probably cost a lot of money, but then we didn't talk to her until she came back like six weeks later.

Michael Pancoast 10:01

Yeah.

Erin Nelson 10:02

The Sunday night phone call. Yes.

Michael Pancoast 10:05

And wasn't it after 11, by the way? Like 10 minutes.

Erin Nelson 10:08

Right, when the rates go down.

Rolf Jacobson 10:10

But I do think so. For people that had um, you know, um, there's there's spiritual resources where your kids are or where you know your siblings are if you're not with them. So, you know, I know Mike Mike leaned on his kids were in a Lutheran college and leaned on the great uh uh Kim and Dave, the great chaplains there. So, you know, I've had other friends that say, hey, my uh my wife's got cancer, but my daughter's in college out east, you know. Uh what should we do? You know, and so help them connect. There's caregivers wherever those distant relatives are that uh could lean into.

Erin Nelson 10:46

That's so comforting to know that the body of Christ surrounds them, no matter where they are, even when they're not in your home and you can't huddle together to process information, they still have someone to be with them. And that really does make a difference.

Colleen Montague 11:01

You guys write about navigating doubt while finding strength in your faith. That tension between the doubt and faith is something that we see here too in the grief work um of our families we uh serve. So, how do you hold space for both? The doubt, but then the strength of faith. And what does that look like for each of you personally?

Michael Pancoast 11:21

Um depends on what day it is, frankly. Um, I mean, hold holding space. Um, I'm not I'm not sure exactly how to how to um hold follow that one, other than there are there have been, there are, and there will continue to be these situations that these realities that um rock me, that rock people to to the core. Um sometimes it's the lightning bolt, sometimes it's more of just a slow grind of you know, mundane whatever that we we have to deal with that that just grinds uh grinds away. I think where I have found comfort and hope in the midst of that tension between faith and doubt are are the disciples themselves. Um it it we we miss the point if we see them as these um paragon superstars of uh of faith and response. That's not the story that the gospels tell. Um, or even how we deal with the question that Jesus uh cries cries from the cross, my God, my God, why have you forsaken me? That even in the midst of that despair, even in the midst of that doubt, um, God in Christ Jesus is is nonetheless present, um, in spite of myself.

Rolf Jacobson 12:46

Yeah, I I think that like Mike says, it's um sometimes the doubt might be just like, oh, I'm I'm evolving at my own understanding of of how God shows up in my life. Um I I think that one thing that can really help is if the church uh so uh like you said, the body of Christ surrounds someone um that if I'm going through doubt, but I'm surrounded by my church, which is what happened to me when uh uh it really there, even if they don't say anything explicitly other than we're praying for you, it does it's hey, that's the body of Christ. And I can actually see the body of Christ, you know. I can see, you know, uh Stefan and Jay and Mary, you know, and so on and Amy surrounding me. I think that really helps.

Erin Nelson 13:36

It helps so much, just to know that you're not alone and that you will have somebody who will be surrounding you.

If God Is Good Why Suffering

Brad Quillen 13:44

Hey guys, what do you say to those with the classic C.S. Lewis question of if God were good, God were all powerful, he wouldn't allow bad things to happen, right? Or he wouldn't have allowed that to happen or or my loved one to be diagnosed or to die and pass away. What do you say to that? How what do you respond with?

Rolf Jacobson 14:02

Well, um it depends on the context. I mean, if it's the if it's in the moment uh right away and and uh somebody's angry you know or deeply upset, um, it's different than uh uh a fairly academic question, but like you know, of a sibling or a friend uh a month later. You mean so it depends how deep you go into theology. If it's in the moment, I usually just listen and uh be a presence. And if they ask, I will say, I don't think God caused this, but I believe God will be in it and God will find you in this. And I'll say that's because that was my experience, and I think that's what the Bible uh teaches.

Michael Pancoast 14:45

Yeah, I 100%. That's a I I um and and Rolf, I think what you're describing is, you know, main maintaining that intimacy of relationship in in the midst of a horrific situation. In the moment, um there's not anything that you can say that's going to make that better or that's going to convince folks, oh, okay, now I get it. Um, but but maintaining that depth and that intimacy of relationship holds that space for further conversation, for further talk, for further prayer, for further ways of um pointing to by faith the way that we think that God shows up and finds us in those uh hellish situations.

Erin Nelson 15:29

I really like that language of finds us.

Brad Quillen 15:32

It's the title of the book.

Erin Nelson 15:34

Yeah, it's beautiful.

Brad Quillen 15:35

Yeah,

Psalm 23 In The Valley

Colleen Montague 15:36

I mean You know, you guys dedicated significant attention to Psalm 23 as a guide through uncertainty and suffering. What made you turn to this particular psalm and what did you discover there that you hadn't seen before?

Rolf Jacobson 15:50

Well, um the psalms uh were very important to me uh as I first of all went through cancer. But then uh you asked them about what's the day-to-day life. Uh I talk about this at one point in the book. Uh so I had cancer from 1980 to 1983, and then uh had lots of surgeries. Then the cancer quit showing up. It you know, uh, they kept having to dig it out of my lungs. Uh and then um after three years of clean CT scans, I'd go to Rochester at first once a month, where the mail clinic is, and then once every two months, and then once every three months, and finally they said, Hey, it's been three years. Statistically, we've this means that you're clear. And then I was like, my whole identity had been, not my whole identity, but my identity had been, I'm the kid who's fighting cancer. And suddenly now my identity was I'm not who am I? Well, I knew I was a child of God, but then it was like, okay, how am I gonna live a life with no legs? Because I had both legs amputated. And Psalm 27 spoke to me. The Lord is my light, my salvation, whom shall I fear? And the Psalms of Trust, they name what's really scary in life. Psalm 23, even though I walk through the valley of the shadow of death or the darkness, prepare a table before me in the presence of my enemies. Yeah, it's uh in the presence of the enemy is the table. And that's scary. And so we started uh uh we actually organized in the original contract for the book was um for every chapter there was a line of Psalm 23. Um, so the chapter about meals and milestones, which is uh how we show up for each other. Well, meals and milestones, you prepare a table before me. And um uh eventually our editors uh and us and we moved away from that. But just the wisdom of dwelling on a line of Psalm 23 over and over again uh at different points was really helpful. What up, Mike?

Michael Pancoast 17:45

Yeah, I I it the the the Psalms in general, whether it's a psalm of trust or a psalm of lament, where you know, here in the uh the very word of God are are um these deep questions of pathos and suffering. Um, where are you? Um I cry to you day and night, and yet I seem to hear nothing back from from you. Um any person, any human being who suffered knows what that feels like, even if they've not been able to put it to words. Um, and and here in our own scriptures is a model for uh for crying out in at times even abject anger and sorrow. And that's the psalms. Uh praise God and where the hell are you? Because this hurts. Uh yeah. Um, you know, there there it is in the very in our words, in in our words of faith in the Psalms itself. And you know, Rolf and and Carl both are are scholars of the Old Testament and the Psalms, and I get to come along for the ride periodically.

Brad Quillen 18:49

So Rolf, can I can I pick on you for a second? Please. We we do. Yeah, yeah. Uh with your experience expertise in in the psalms, do you or how do you read the Psalm 23 differently after your experience with cancer than you did before? Um, but then even living through serious illness, how's that change your scholarly understanding of the text? Like has it has it pushed you to read it through a different lens, or do you read it uh in a different way than you did prior to that?

Rolf Jacobson 19:21

Well, um I wish Carl had survived to answer that because he might uh because he got sick later in life, and um that might the experience I got sick when I was you know 15. So I'm not sure how much I read the Psalms. I mean the Bible. I tried tried to read the Bible beforehand, but I'm not sure I understood very much. What I would say is that um there are still moments, um I'll make it very simple. I think that there's a there's a line or a psalm for almost any situation in life. And um I I hope uh I've got an article somewhere um called There's a Psalm for that. So if you a pastor I know who's really good says when someone uh has trouble, any kind of trouble and comes to her, she says she'll say, start reading the book of Psalms and keep reading until you find something that works. And it might just be a line. It might, you know, it doesn't have to be the whole stuff, but there might be a line. Like for me, it was the Lord is my light and my salvation, whom shall I fear? Or you are with me. I think that's the the major thing I've learned um from living through suffering, and as a pastor and as a parent of walking with others as they go through suffering is that confession and promise at the center of Psalm 23 is the most important thing. You are with me. Yeah, his presence. Because, you know, I think that the initial impulse, which is very natural, is God has abandoned me.

Erin Nelson 20:51

Absolutely.

Rolf Jacobson 20:52

God's not here. And the cross teaches us that God actually, paradoxically, the the the places where it feels God cannot be present, the death of the Son of God is actually the place where God is most present with saving power. And so that means in my suffering, God is also present with saving power.

Humor And Side By Side Care

Erin Nelson 21:13

He's everywhere, he's with you. Something that we talked about earlier, a little bit offline before we started our discussion today was humor. And we share with Jessica's House one of our core values is humor, which you wouldn't think that for a grief center for children and families, but something that we really appreciate. Um, when we first started Jessica's House, we were in a very tiny house in our just local downtown here, and the parents and the children were very close together in their spaces. And sometimes the kids would start laughing, and you could see the parents feel just relieved that their kids were laughing. And sometimes the parents were laughing, and you could see it on the kids' faces, the relief to hear their parents laughing. And you talk about laughter, you talk about humor, and just how it can sustain you in your darkest moments. And that may surprise some people, just the um idea that humor has a place in um your cancer. And so, what is it um that helps you through those dark times and how have you seen humor really help bring that levity to you?

Rolf Jacobson 22:25

Well, um, I'm I was really uh excited and to read on your website that one of your core values is humor, and we have a chapter called Laughter. At the most fundamental level, I believe that laughter is when we laugh, in some ways, we are living into the joy of the kingdom of God. And it's actually laughter, then if that's true, if that's part of our living into God's kingdom, then it means we're actually in very small ways bringing the kingdom's reality into the moment. Um so Sarah, the the the uh Carl and I actually wrote a book about uh humor and what creatures, I think it's called Divine Laughter, uh, where we really talk about humor a lot. Is that what it's called? Um we dedicated that uh book to uh um our six friends, except for we said we we left one of them out and said, also Daryl, um uh just as a line of humor. But I Sarah laughs at God because God has made an absurd promise. A 90-year-old woman who's post-menopause with an old husband, uh, and she said, Can he give me joy? I think we all know what that means. Um, Sarah laughs at the idea that the two of them can have a child. And then God says, You know what I'm gonna do to your la your cynical laughter? I'm gonna turn it into Easter laughter. I think that's really what God does. God's job description raise the dead, um, turn the the mocking, disbelieving laughter of Good Friday into Easter. Wow. Can I tell a story, Mike, about what happened to us? I'm gonna. Was it last Friday, two Fridays ago? So uh we sometimes get together uh as a group with our wives, uh, my dad on Friday afternoons. And Mike's Mike's cancer journey started with pain in his back, and he tells that story. So Mike uh was uh we met at this, was it two Fridays ago? I think so, Mike. Yeah, it was two Fridays ago. And Mike says, hey, don't tell anybody, but I've had back pain for three days. And I said, Wow, that's gonna make a hell of a second edition for the book.

Michael Pancoast 24:32

Which I had said I already thought about that. So, you know,

Rolf Jacobson 24:37

I t's the laughter, right?

Erin Nelson 24:39

It's the laughter, absolutely.

Michael Pancoast 24:41

And and for and for us, as we were, you know, when we were talking offline earlier, that that for this group of friends and brothers that we get together with, um, that that humor is sort of our default dialogue. Um and and that that joy of the kingdom is um is is quite is quite natural. Um even in the face of, you know, in the end, it turns out I'm just 57 years old, and that comes with back pain now.

Rolf Jacobson 25:14

Um by the way, by the way, yeah. It turned out to be quite looking at that, it turned out to be not uh looking at lymphoma again. Uh and also I just my wife and I share that uh same thing. Uh the default is humor uh as a way and you know, um to uh it's it it it's a way to not only does it bring in the kingdom and we live into the kingdom through our laughter, um, but it's a way of dealing with hard things. So in the book, one of the uh we quote Jerry Seinfeld um in his uh he gave the the commencement address at Duke University, and one of the things he said is humor is one of the most important, he actually might have said the most important life skill you can learn. You're gonna need it. So uh don't leave that behind. Uh and uh I think that's really I think that's really true.

Erin Nelson 26:11

It's very true. Thank you.

Colleen Montague 26:13

You know, along with humor, uh bringing you strength, you Mike, you and Carl used the language side by side. You shared that at the beginning. And that was a key for you to uh when facing anything that comes your way in life. And that's really what we talk about here uh with grief support too, is companioning and that side-by-sideness together, the ability to be with somebody who can say, Yeah, I remember that, or yeah, me too. Like I'm feeling that way too. What did that companionship make possible that wouldn't have been possible if you were to be holding this alone?

Rolf Jacobson 26:51

I remember uh, you know, when I was really, really sick as a teenager and uh, you know, weighed almost nothing and had no strength. And then I would have if they had to go through something painful, you know, my my mom would hold my hand. And you know, so community multiplies joys and divides sorrows. And so uh obviously our wives and our kids and our parents and all those things, and that's the secret sauce of of church. And um as as as fewer people are being involved in church life, it's a real, I think it's a real opportunity for the church to go out and find ways to surround people and ministries like like like you have, um the Ronald McDonald House at that that exists at at cancer centers is you know, places where families can be together. You talked about it. Um when I was getting cancer, uh when I was getting treatment for cancer, there was another family in the uh we're from Michigan. I I won't say their names, but I remember the boy he had cancer, he died. Um but so my but my parents and his parents um were in contact for decades after because of the bond they had. And so, I mean, just the ministry you guys are doing there, uh helping helping form communities of care and grief is really wonderful.

Colleen Montague 28:12

I love that you said secret sauce. We say the exact same thing in terms of our our companionship, which is our version of the side-by-side, you know, and we say that's that's our secret sauce for grief support. It's just coming alongside each other. I wanted, if it's okay, I wanted to share a quote from you, Rolf, that I just I felt so connected to with what we do as well. "But when people are suffering and there is nothing substantiative that we can do to make it stop, what they need is for us to be present with them in their suffering. This once again is a matter of faithfulness. The hard work of entering with someone into their suffering, to sit with them, wait with them, hope and cry, and in fact suffer alongside them. That too is faithfulness."

Rolf Jacobson 29:01

I wrote that?

Colleen Montague 29:03

You sure did, Rolf.

Rolf Jacobson 29:07

That's that's better than I remembered. It would have taken me about four more sentences to say.

Erin Nelson 29:13

Oh thank you for that.

Rolf Jacobson 29:15

That's exactly right. I mean, I think that when an another person is in extreme psychological psychic pain, it it it it sort of it's like putting the north end of two batteries together. It's like we are we are naturally repulsed and we don't want to be around people that are in that in psychic agony. And that's okay to feel that. And then you go anyway, is uh, I think, you know, you go anyway. When I got, you know, I was only 15 when I got cancer. Some of my uh friends that I had hung out with, especially on the tennis team and in the band, which uh or skiing, which were my major outlets, they just ghosted me. Um we didn't use that word back then. They didn't know how to be around me. They you know, so I just I just like they were gone. But other people were there. And um, my you know, my good my closest set of friends in high school were there. And I just think that it's okay for us to feel you gotta get in touch with your own feelings in order to then be present with somebody else.

Erin Nelson 30:20

Thank you.

Michael Pancoast 30:21

I remember when you had a feeling that time, Rolf.

Rolf Jacobson 30:24

Yep. I try to limit my feelings to one a year. I'm Norwegian after all.

Brad Quillen 30:29

Oh, you speak in my language.

Erin Nelson 30:31

There we go.

Brad Quillen 30:31

From Scandinavian.

Erin Nelson 30:32

Yeah, we we're very um, yes, there's a lot of um that in Turlock.

Brad Quillen 30:37

One I love you a year.

Erin Nelson 30:39

Yes.

Rolf Jacobson 30:40

Well, you know, no, Oli and Lena got married and uh an oldie joke. 50 years later, Alina said, Oli, you never say I told you we got I love you and we got married. If I ever changed my mind, I'll let you know. Thank you very much. It's a it's an old Olin Lena joke. So you can you can cut the Ole Lena joke for a little bit. So good.

Parting Words For Held Hands

Erin Nelson 31:01

Oh, I don't think Gary will want to cut that. Thank you. Well, um, Mike brought um Rolf mentioned earlier how his mom held his hand in the hospital room. And there are people right now listening to this, maybe they're holding someone's hand who is experiencing treatment for cancer right now, or maybe they're the ones. As we wrap up right now, what would be some words that you would say to someone either going through cancer or supporting someone with cancer? What can you leave us with today?

Michael Pancoast 31:35

Right there where that hand is being held is where God is in the flesh, in our flesh, which is fundamental to what we what we believe that God has revealed himself to us uh in the flesh and blood of Jesus. Um and that that's not just a part of the story, um, it is part of it is the good news as as we suffer and as we are gifted with people who suffer along with us, that God is no closer to us than in that held hand. Thank you.

Rolf Jacobson 32:11

Hey uh we really uh are very impressed. We were new to the ministry of Jessica's house, Mike and I, but um we did notice on your website that you have a donate button. And uh if it's our it's you, we're gonna uh after this is done, we're gonna go to the website and make a make a small donation, what we can handle uh because you guys are doing great work.

Erin Nelson 32:33

That is so kind of you. Thank you so much, and thank you for sharing your story and sharing your wisdom with us today. Thank you for again for writing this book. I can think of so many people right now that would benefit so much from reading it, and we're really grateful to have it as a resource here at Jessica's house.

Rate, Review, And Resources

Brad Quillen 32:52

Yes. Michael and Rolf, thank you so much for being with us today. For those of you listening, you can find their book at Baker's publishing website or wherever books are sold. Erin, I know there's something you wanted to share with our listeners today as we wrap up this podcast. Why don't you go ahead and take a moment?

Erin Nelson 33:09

Just as our listeners have given us really great feedback, I just want to say if you could just take a moment to rate our podcast and also write a review. It helps get it into the hands of those who need it most. And so every time you review a podcast, it goes up a little bit into ratings. And so if somebody just types in grief in a podcast search, they can find this podcast. And as we know that it's been so helpful for parents who are grieving, we want to get it into more hands. So please rate and review.

Brad Quillen 33:46

Thanks, Erin. And let me remind you, be sure to visit jessicashouse.org for more grief resources. And if you have any other topics or questions you'd like us to cover on this podcast, we welcome your email at info@jessicashouse.org. Be sure to join us for the next episode of When Grief Comes Home. Until then, we wish you well.

Gary Shriver 34:09

Jessica's House is a children's bereavement center located in California's Central Valley since 2012. We provide free peer support for children, teens, young adults, and their families grieving a loss. The When Grief Comes Home podcast goes along with the book of the same name. The book When Grief Comes Home is a gentle guide for parents who are grieving a partner or child while helping their children through the loss of their parent or sibling. When Grief Comes Home is now available at all major book retailers. And if you need grief-related support, please visit jessicashouse.org to download our free resources and be sure to follow Jessica's House on social media. If you have any questions or topics that you'd like us to explore in a future episode, just send us an email to info@jessicashouse.org. Thank you for joining us, and we'll see you next time for When Grief Comes Home.