Northing Is Wasted: Part 2 - Davey Blackburn

The hardest losses do not stay neatly private, and when grief becomes public it can feel like you are bleeding in front of a crowd. We sit down again with Davey Blackburn to talk about what happens when a homicide shatters your family and the world has opinions, theories, and headlines. This conversation includes a content warning, because parts of Davey’s story involve the murder of his wife Amanda and their unborn child, yet it also holds real hope for parents who feel like they will never breathe normally again.

We dig into the complexity of grieving under scrutiny, including the unexpected “advantages” of people rallying around you and the crushing disadvantages of being on display in the worst moment of your life. Davey shares what it was like to live through a legal process that dragged on for years, how delays and mistrials can keep trauma reopened, and why someone told him to settle things in his heart before they were ever settled in a courtroom.

We also get practical about the lifelong nature of grief: you do not get over it, you learn to carry it. We talk triggers, anniversaries, the random moments that knock the wind out of you, and why “I shouldn’t feel this” adds unnecessary suffering. Then we move into a tender topic many parents wrestle with quietly: remarriage, blended family life, and learning to embrace joy while still honoring the person who died.

Davey also explains the mission behind Nothing Is Wasted, including coaching, online community, and the Pain to Purpose course designed to help people heal in supportive groups. If you’re looking for grief support resources, we point you toward options through Jessica’s House and the National Alliance for Children’s Grief. Subscribe, share this with a parent who needs it, and leave a review so more grieving families can find this podcast.

Nothing is Wasted: https://www.nothingiswasted.com/

Order the book When Grief Comes Home: https://a.co/d/ijaiP5L

Jessica's House Resources: https://www.jessicashouse.org/resources

For more information on Jessica’s House or for additional resources, please go to jessicashouse.org 

Transcript

Welcome, Warning, And Guest Setup

Gary Shriver 0:00

Hello, and welcome to When Grief Comes Home, a podcast dedicated to parents living through loss while supporting their child. Let's meet the team.

Erin Nelson 0:10

I'm Erin Nelson, founding executive director of Jessica's House.

Colleen Montague 0:14

Hi, I'm Colleen Montague, Program Director for Jessica's House and a licensed marriage and family therapist.

Brad Quillen 0:21

Hi, I'm Brad Quillen, and I'm the host of When Grief Comes Home.

Grieving After Homicide In Public

Gary Shriver 0:25

This podcast goes along with the book of the same name, When Grief Comes Home, a gentle guide for parents who are grieving a parent or child while helping their children through the loss of their parent or sibling. And it's available at all major book retailers. Today, we're back for part two with our guest, Davey Blackburn, author, pastor, speaker, and someone who's lived through unimaginable loss and found a way forward that honors both the pain and the possibility of healing. Davy's book, Nothing Is Wasted, How God Remedies What Is Lost, was born from his personal experience of tragedy when his wife Amanda was killed back in 2015 along with their unborn child. Since then, he's remarried, become a father again, and dedicated himself to helping others find hope after devastating loss. Now, for those of you listening today, this episode comes with a warning because parts of Davy's story are hard to hear as it revolves around the homicide of his wife and unborn child. But in the midst of it all, he found hope and healing and restoration. So let's go to the team now for part two of Nothing Is Wasted, How God Remedies What Is Lost.

Colleen Montague 1:42

Davey, one of the groups that we have here at Jessica's House is called Hope After Homicide and just a space for families living through a really specific set of circumstances around the loss of their person. You experienced your loss very publicly, and I'm sure that added another layer to your grief. Can you explain to us what that was like and what you would want others to understand about grieving in the public eye?

Davey Blackburn 2:11

Yeah. Well, it was very complex. Um the advantage of it was that I was available probably the best resources in all of Christendom. The advantage to grieving in the public eye. People acknowledged it. They said, Wow, we've got to come around this guy and help him. And so I would, I got to see the best counselors, pastors. So I am grateful for that. And it's part of one of the reasons why we started our ministries because my mom used to always tell me growing up to who much is given, much is required. It feels like a stewardship issue for us now that there are a lot of people who don't have those resources that we were given. And um, so that's the that was the advantage. There's a whole lot of complexity and disadvantages to it. It is very challenging to have your challenging might be an understatement, uh to have your life, your entire life be on display and exposed to the world when you're in the worst moment of your life. And grief is often the worst moments of all of our lives, where we are at our worst. Um, and we're so now imagine being at your worst and under the scrutiny of a lot of people. And in the first couple of weeks, and still to this day, to be honest with you, but mostly in the first couple of weeks before arrests were made, the first indictment, the first assumption is usually it's the husband when something like this happens. And so um, you know, there was there were a lot of things. My I had a really good group of people around me that shielded me from seeing a lot of the kind of media fire swarm surrounding it, because I think that would have really that would have really impacted me in tremendous ways to have just lost my best friend and our unborn baby, and then to feel uh kind of a collective onslaught of people, you know, accusing me of of being the one behind it. Um, and so I'm I'm I'm grateful that God was gracious that it was later on that I was more exposed to that, where I was able to metabolize that and try to metabolize that in a healthy way. But it was challenging. And it caused me to want to personally immediately my reaction was, and I don't know if this is good or this is bad or this is just kind of how I'm made up, but my reaction was again, I don't want to waste this, and I want Amanda's story to be told, and I want people to know who she was and what she stood for, and I want people to come to know the Lord through this. But what it caused when there was a lot of like scrutiny and a lot of and um commencing everything that I would say and blasting that and you know, using that as a fuel or fodder for this is why he's behind it or whatever, that caused me to just want to like dive into a hole and not really process anything. So I I experienced just weeks of vacillating between those two things, and it's it's hard enough to have experience that kind of open wound of losing a loved one, um, and then to have salt poured in that wound. That's extremely difficult. But then you go through all of the other stuff, like the legal process of everything, and having to drum all that up and having to sort through all of that stuff and talking with the investigators and talking with prosecutors and not really knowing where the investigation is at certain times and not knowing what the where the case is, and then having to go to pretrial hearings and trying to having to go to hearings and having to, you know, and then ultimately the trial. The trial took place seven years after. So for seven years, this is drug on. And um, we'd ramp ourselves up to go to trial, and then it was mistried multiple times, and they couldn't find a jury that was untainted that hadn't heard the story. So there was just lots of complication within it all. And through the whole thing, I feel like the Lord was just uh trying to teach us different aspects about who he is. Um, you know, I'll never forget one of those moments that we thought we were going to trial, and it was around Christmas time, and I for some reason the word good counselor came up, right? It because it's Christmas time, good counselor. And uh we're sitting there, we we're driving down to the trial, and it's we end up getting the word while we're driving down that it's mistried again. I think this was like the second or third time, and we're going, Are you kidding me? Like, when can we just get this thing to the finish line? When can we have this past us? And I remember the the the prosecutor saying, Hey, listen, I am dedicated to this, I am not leaving this post, I am going to see this thing to the end. And a few months later, he gets reassigned to a different post. We get assigned a new prosecutor, so it drags things on a little bit more. My point is this in the midst of that, the Lord kept going, Davey, I'm the good counselor. And I don't just mean that from the standpoint of a therapist, I mean it legally too. I'm the mediator between you and justice. I'm the ultimate judge, I'm the ultimate avenger in all this. I will make this right. You can trust me in this, you can trust the timing, you can trust the outcome, you can trust the outcome here on earth, the outcome in heaven. I am ultimately going to make all of this right. And I think some of the best advice that we got early on was settle this in your heart and settle this with the Lord before it's ever settled in the courtroom. Because there is no amount of justice here on this earth that's ever going to one, bring back your loved one and two, fully and finally assuage or reconcile the pain that you're going through. But one day, one day there will be. One day true justice will prevail, and everything that is hidden will be exposed, and everything that is in the dark will be brought into the light. And um, that's where for the seven-year process and even beyond, that's where our family has really had to settle into and go, okay, we're we're trusting God through all of this. So I don't know if that answered your question. I'm happy to dive into any more of that, but um, but yeah, it's very it's additionally complicated to have your life on display while you're in the middle of grief.

Brad Quillen 8:13

Davey, one of the things we talk a lot at Jessica's House about is this idea that grief isn't something that we get over, right? Some people think, well, it's been six months, it's been a year, isn't it? Aren't you done? You know, it's time to move on. But we talk about this idea of integrating, and so it becomes a part of who you are and a part of the rest of your life. I've had one co-facility they've worked with over the years that his son uh unfortunately passed away. And he talks about, you know, that pressure on my chest of the grief. It's still there, but it's just different after 20 plus years. And it's never gonna go away. That absence is never gonna go away. And just curious how that's evolved and changed for you over the years.

Davey Blackburn 8:54

Well, I would say that's an absolutely true statement. I don't think it's escapable at all. I think everyone's going to carry it for the rest of their lives. Um, I think you get stronger. You know, it's a like if I were to hand you a 50-pound weight and say, start carrying this every day of your life, the first couple of years even would probably be very tough. But you start to build the muscles essentially to be able to carry it. And I think emotionally and spiritually, that's what ends up happening as you're continuing to grieve and grieve well. You build the muscles to carry it. It's like an open wound that becomes a scar, and the scar is always there, but it it doesn't cause you to flinch or wince or you know, shrink back when someone touches it anymore. They can go, hey, what's that? And you go, Oh yeah, let me tell you about this. And yeah, man, every time it gets cold, I feel that right there, that's for sure, because I can just feel the barometric pressure change in my bones from that broken arm. But but it's a let me tell you the story behind that. You know, it's it doesn't come at as intense or as frequent, but it comes. And hopefully you've done the work in the first six months to a year, to a year and a half, that you now have the tools to know what to do when it comes and how to appropriately process it and begin to allow those things to because it's just that's part of the healing process. That's that is what continues to bring healing is to keep experiencing that grief.

Brad Quillen 10:16

Davey, let me ask you a follow-up to that. You used the word barometric pressure, and that's a a weather term. People need to realize that that stress or that those feelings, those emotions, that grief is gonna come back in some seasons. And it could be around a birth date, the date of death, and it might even come up six, eight weeks, four weeks before you start feeling that again.

Davey Blackburn 10:39

Yeah, it may come up completely randomly. Correct. Uh, those are the ones that usually catch you up more off guard because you're like, wait a minute, there's nothing significant that I can tell. It's maybe more undetected. You you tend to gear yourself up for the significant events, right? You're kind of like, okay, I'm preparing myself for this, right? And then maybe it's shortly afterwards because your guard's down and the boom it hits, right? Or or it's random, like you experience something that reminds you, like it's some kind of sense, smell, taste, or whatever, right? And it reminds you and it grips you all of a sudden, and you're going, oh. And I think what where that can become additionally complex is exactly what you're saying, because you begin to feel like, oh, I shouldn't feel this way. I must not be in a place that I thought that I should be at, right? And I think that if we could just dispel the shoulds, right? My counselor said, stop shooting on yourself. We can just dispel the shoulds and go true, true. At the end of the day, we're gonna feel what we feel, and that's part of what grief is, is getting comfortable enough to go, I'm gonna feel what I feel. And that doesn't mean we have to let our emotions drive us, you know. It it means we can go, all right, this is what I'm experiencing, and this is just kind of telling me something here. That's it. Yeah, it's telling me what needs to be processed further, it's telling me how much I love this person, how much I miss this person. Like it doesn't have to be something that is some kind of a barometer to say, oh well, I'm not on the I'm not further further enough along like I should be. Or it's not that. It's just this is what grief is. And as if we can get more comfortable with that, we almost mitigate the suffering about our suffering, if to borrow Victor Frankel's term, right? It's like when we suffer about our suffering, it increases our suffering. If we just suffer and embrace that, it will come and it will go.

Remarriage, Joy, And Honoring Amanda

Erin Nelson 12:36

Yeah, just the rhythm of it. Yeah, and I like this, I like how you brought in the weather of that because it is, it's just we you never know what it will be. And but we say around here, you know, storms never last forever. And they do come and go, but trusting that you will get through that just like you got through the last storm, and whatever that pressure is, however that pain is coming up, you're gonna get through it. Right. Hey Davey, um, we're talking today, and um, you've since remarried, you've blended your family. And can you talk about what it is like to enter a new relationship and even embrace joy while still honoring Amanda?

Davey Blackburn 13:18

Yeah. I love this question. It's a it's a big question because there's so much um, you know, there were so many fears that I had with that. I mean, one of the things that I was praying for when um when after Amanda passed away, there would be these really well-meaning people, very unhelpful, but well-meaning. Um, as I'm sure many people who experience grief, they've encountered these kinds of people, but they would say things like, Well, at least you're young and you'll find love again.

Brad Quillen 13:46

Yeah.

Davey Blackburn 13:47

And I always advise people, I'm sure you do as well, that if you are beginning to start your consoling others with at least just stop, do not minimize or diminish the pain that they're going through. Just be there. But the power of presence is a beautiful thing. And in the midst of all of that, I I experienced those kinds of phrases. And I it wasn't helpful. I didn't want to confront it, but I knew that I would probably remarry. I was 30 years old. So I began to pray, Lord, if if you would ever have another wife for me, would she love me? Would she love you more than she loves me? Would she love me too? Because I would be great. Would she love Weston as if he were her own? And would she love Amanda? And those were very important. All four of those things were very important to me, but it also felt impossible and felt helpless. So I I'm praying this prayer and I'm thinking I'm feeling hopeless about it because I feel think it's impossible. I'm like, there's no way that there's a woman out there that would make this description. And uh, long story short, you you can read the whole entire story in this book right here. Nothing is wasted. Uh, it's an unbelievable story. But essentially, I meet this woman, my heart wakes up, can't explain it because I don't know anything about her. Then as I learn more about her over the next several months, as she begins attending the church that I pastor, um, and then I finally have a conversation with her. She begins to tell me her story and begins to tell me all the ugly of her story to scare me away. But one of the things she mentioned is she mentioned that her stepdad is one of the chaplains for our prison system and had been assigned to the three men that killed Amanda. So here was this convergence, like it was undeniable as a God thing. This woman that inexplainably, outside of just God's work, had woken my heart up, and now she was that close to my story. So all I have to say is God was doing something um in our lives to bring us together, which helped to br to kind of uh to bring fertile soil to the exact thing that you guys were asking right there. Like, how do you remarry, blend family, sort through grief, trauma, loss on both sides of things, right? Her own loss, her own grief, her own trauma. She grew up with a lot of childhood trauma and an abusive dad. She had a really painful divorce. So she's bringing in at that time a four-year-old girl. I'm bringing in now at this point, Weston's almost three, and we're like colliding our lives together. We got married at the end of 2017, and we're like, wow, look, God, you've just totally redeemed this story. This is amazing. Not fully understanding the implications and what would, you know, what does it mean to bring these two really painful stories together? In a couple of weeks, I'm speaking at a um called Blended and Blessed, Ron Deal and and uh Family Life Ministries. And uh the whole thing that we're talking about is that before we blended, we were broken. And there's so much that comes in with all of that, but it's again these continual invitations into healing. And now it's invitations from each other because we experience triggers from each other and from our kids, and we're trying to help our kids heal. And it's just this like deluge of all of these things that are coming, colliding together, but again, these little invitations to go, how do I let God heal my heart more? How do I let this right here continue to heal my heart? And it's been a really beautiful thing. Now our kids are 12, 11, and six. So one from her previous marriage, our 12-year-old Natalia, one from mine, Weston, 11-year-old, and then ours together, six-year-old Cohen. And so incidentally, and I wish this was the most difficult part of it, but we have three for firstborns, and so fantastic. Everyone is fighting for alpha in our house, and they're just dogmatic about their way, and but it creates a whole lot of fun on some days and a whole lot of chaos on others, and we have lots of opportunities to um step back and apologize and find once again, just be humble in the approach of going, okay, how do we help each other heal and how do we restore and how do we repair and how do we help these little brains and bodies and hearts who have been impacted by trauma to heal? Um, and so we've got kind of a case study like playing out in front of us of our two older kids who experienced early on in their very formidable years, right? Trauma, um, attachment ruptures. And then we've got a six-year-old who is like the perfect picture of healthy attachment. And and you're going, wow. And so we can see it not just psychologically, but just in a real life experience, those two things playing out and going, okay, how do we help these older two to experience repair from something that they couldn't have they didn't have control over?

Erin Nelson 18:41

Yes.

Brad Quillen 18:42

Davey, you were just talking about, you know, you get the chance to speak and you've written and the possibility of healing. Because there are some people that are in the first few months after something tragic has happened. What do you want them to know about? There is healing, and there is a possibility of healing. Not to say it's these exact steps, it's different for everybody, but you also mentioned uh about Dr. Uh Walker. And can you tell us just some of the wisdom that you found uh that helped you so much in some of those days?

Davey Blackburn 19:13

Well, yeah. And you know, first to take your first question, I'm a living, breathing example that there is um possibility for healing. And that hope. Uh I I did not I did not know how in the world my life was going to be put back together. Um, and I think I look at even that recognition as a gift because I've always been a pretty self-sufficient person, high achieving. Oh, I can tackle, I can take care of that. I was an athlete growing up. It's like I see a challenge, I can take care of that. This tragedy was the first time in my life that I genuinely recognized there is no way I can get through this. I don't know how in the world I'm gonna be able to put the pieces back together. And that's where God stepped in. And I think we're all gonna find ourselves at that kind of a place at some point where we realize our own limitations, our own insufficiency. And if we allow God to do what only God can do in that, we really begin to bring, like all the things we've been talking about, bringing our pain to him, bringing our sorrow to him, really laying it at his feet, allowing him to have these bring about these serendipitous providential moments where he begins to put pieces back together and fills us with gratitude. And we go, Wow, God, look what you did. Oh my gosh, I cannot believe that. I think um I think these are the these are the moments that are ripe for that. These moments of loss, these moments of grief. God meets us more deeply in these moments than any other moment. There, even to the extent where I would go, I would echo what Elizabeth Elliott says in Path of Loneliness, I would never have asked for this, but I also would never trade it for the world. And when I re when I first heard that phrase, I was like, no way, I would trade this in a heartbeat. But the more that I've seen God work in me, never mind through me, right? Forget the stuff that the impact and all of that. The more that I've seen him rebuild me, and the more that I've seen a picture of who he is, the more I go, I wouldn't trade it. Yeah, I wouldn't trade it. It's w it's it's worth it to know Christ more. So I'm just one of those stories. There are thousands, countless stories, millions of people who have experienced the goodness of God even in the midst of the valley of the shadow of death.

Erin Nelson 21:32

Absolutely.

Davey Blackburn 21:33

And um, so I just think that's why it's important to share our stories, to do what you guys are doing, because we get to borrow faith from other people when we don't have it ourselves. I had people who stepped into my life who said, Hey, I've been there, I've experienced this, you're not gonna always feel this way, and I will walk with you in this. And that's the beauty of community. That's why grief, community, and grief is so important. It's not like, hey, you're gonna be okay. It's I'm gonna walk with you until you say you're okay. That's the beauty of walking this out together. So um and then yeah, I mean you mentioned Dr. Walker, my therapist, my counselor. He's a he was amazing. He's like a Jedi master when it comes to this stuff. But I just um I saw him in March of 2016 for an intensive and then kept seeing him some more after that. And it was just one of those moments where you're you go, I just I felt seen. I uh you know I felt like he could understand the complexity. I think for all of us we tend to think nobody can understand what I'm going through. Because we all have very we have complexity within our grief, right? And the enemy's lie that he wants us to believe is that nobody gets it. Nobody understands it. He's trying to isolate us because I mean you've seen National Geographic if you get the will to beast isolated that's when the enemy prowling around like a roaring lion can take take his moment but we have the promise of 1 Peter 5 that says let us not forget there are saints all over the world suffering in the same way that we are so there are other people that have experienced similar things that you can find solidarity in. You can find community in there are people that see you. There are people that understand despite what the enemy is trying to tell you that nobody understands. And we serve a high priest who can empathize with us. We serve a God who wrapped himself in flesh and subjected himself to the human experience and went through every trial and temptation we've gone through to the fullest extent. And I think my time with Dr.

Erin Nelson 23:27

Walker reminded me of that there was a man representing Jesus on earth for me saying I see you I understand it I'm gonna let you verbal vomit all over my office right now and then I'm gonna help you start to assign meaning to this even when it can't be explained I'm gonna help you assign meaning to this Davey as you talk about other people going through this you have a a ministry called Nothing is wasted can you tell us a little bit about your ministry about your book and what do you offer those who have experienced trauma and grief?

Davey Blackburn 24:04

Yeah great question thank you yeah we in 2019 I stepped away from pastoring the church that I was pastoring it was kind of a moment where Christy and I my wife now where we felt like God was moving us into a new season a new assignment we had no idea what that meant but we just knew we were supposed to do nothing is wasted full time at the time all we had was a podcast. It was just a podcast similar to this we're sharing stories of other people interviewing them letting them give testimony to where God has brought them out of their painful stories and so I'm going what in the world how do I do this full time with just a podcast but I started traveling and speaking started coaching people one-on-one and then um what I began to realize as I would travel and speak is there would be people who would come up afterwards and they would say I thought they were coming up to offer condolences. I thought they were kind of coming up to say hey I've read your story or I've seen your story and we've been praying for you but in fact they were coming up to tell me their story and it was almost as if it was the first time somebody had given them permission in church to tell their story. And it time after time after time of this happening and I was like man I there there is something to this it goes back to that stewardship thing I was talking about earlier. And so over the last six years uh what God has brought us to is now this ministry has evolved into creating content, online community and coaching. And that's our ecosystem. We create a lot of great content both free content as well as membership content. We have a membership community that connects other people all over the world with people who have gone through the same thing that they have and then we have coaches that coach people one-on-one through specific pain points you know so child loss for instance we match them with a child loss coach who's experienced that they've been certified trauma certified and they've been certified through our pain to purpose curriculum and so they're able to walk people one-on-one through that or if it's divorce or if it's childhood trauma or whatever it is that they would self-select and say this is my presenting trauma or my that and we match them with the coach and then our coaches engage on that community. So we've got this ecosystem happening online well in conjunction with that we developed a course called Pain to purpose that is a video study. It's about a year's worth of counseling broken down into 11 videos as far as a counseling content is concerned. And it's meant to be absorbed in support groups and so we've launched this in churches all over the country now to help churches create environments where people can heal inside of their local church community. And so it's not meant to be a replacement to counseling just meant to be kind of a stopgap for especially those who aren't able to make that bridge to counseling. And it's meant to really equip the church and lay people to care for the people that are experiencing all different sorts of trauma not just what we would deem as loss of a loved one but all different sorts of trauma. And so that's what we that's the crusade that we're on.

Erin Nelson 26:56

We want to meet people in their pain and provide a pathway through you said it earlier there's not like a step-by-step process but we do believe there's a pathway yeah and there are some things that all of us are going to have to there are common denominators in the Valley of the shadow of death that will look unique in and of its own right for each person's story but here are the things that we have to confront things like befriending our emotions which is waypoint one reframing our perspective uh unclogging our bitterness like different things that we're all going to have to begin to wrestle through as we find healing through this thank you so much that is such a wonderful resource and one that we will add to the show notes and also for our families that we're serving at Jessica's house and thank you for your ministry.

Brad Quillen 27:42

Yeah Davey thanks for this conversation your openness for sharing Amanda with us and just your your process man and and what you've learned along the way.

Davey Blackburn 27:51

Thank you guys this has been an honor to be with you guys.

Resources, Rate And Review, Closing

Erin Nelson 27:54

For our listeners Dave's book Nothing is wasted is available wherever books are sold and you can learn more about his work at nothingiswasted.com. We'll include links in our show notes.

Colleen Montague 28:05

Hey listeners if today's conversation brought up feelings or questions about your own grief please know you're not alone. We encourage you to reach out to a grief support organization in your community if you go to nacg.org there is a search engine there to look up resources near you and as always you can access resources on our website at jessicashouse.org.

Brad Quillen 28:28

Erin I know there's something you wanted to share with our listeners today as we wrap up this podcast. Why don't you go ahead and take a moment?

Erin Nelson 28:35

Just as our listeners have given us really great feedback I just want to say if you could just take a moment to rate our podcast and also write a review it helps get it into the hands of those who need it most. And so every time you review a podcast it goes up a little bit into ratings. And so if somebody just types in grief in a podcast search they can find this podcast and as we know that it's been so helpful for parents who are grieving we want to get it into more hands so please rate and review.

Brad Quillen 29:13

Thanks Erin and let me remind you be sure to visit jessicashouse.org for more grief resources and if you have any other topics or questions you'd like us to cover on this podcast we welcome your email at info@jessicashouse.org. Be sure to join us for the next episode of When Grief Comes Home.

Gary Shriver 29:32

Until then we wish you well Jessica's House is a children's bereavement center located in California's Central Valley since 2012. We provide free peer support for children, teens, young adults and their families grieving a loss. The When Grief Comes Home podcast goes along with the book of the same name. The book When Grief Comes Home is a gentle guide for parents who are grieving a partner or child while helping their children through the loss of their parent or sibling. When Grief Comes Home is now available in all major book retailers. And if you need grief-related support please visit jessica'shouse.org to download our free resources and be sure to follow Jessica's House on social media. If you have any questions or topics that you'd like us to explore in a future episode just send us an email to info@jessicashouse.org. Thank you for joining us and we'll see you next time for When Grief Comes Home.