Tray Tables and Time Zones

Lost in Japan Part 1: Embracing Culture and Convenience

• Josh Bogle • Episode 4

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Step into the heart of Tokyo with me, Josh Bogle, as we unravel the vibrant tapestry of Japan's capital. What makes Tokyo's rhythm so captivating, and why do travelers find themselves enchanted by its seamless blend of the traditional and the modern? Join me on this episode of Tray Tables and Time Zones as I share my personal journey through Tokyo's bustling streets, offering practical insights for first-time visitors. From navigating the airport to mastering the art of public transportation, you'll learn how to explore the city's wonders with ease. Whether it's discovering the fascinating cultural etiquette or figuring out the best place to stay, this episode promises to equip you with the tools to make your trip unforgettable.

Ever wondered why you rarely see trash cans in Japan or the secret to staying connected while exploring its wonders? We'll unravel these mysteries and more, guiding you through the intricacies of Japanese customs and how they contribute to the country's remarkable cleanliness. I also shed light on finding the perfect accommodation, emphasizing the convenience of staying near the Yamanote Line for quick access to Tokyo’s highlights. Whether you're a solo adventurer or traveling with family, you'll find tailored advice to suit your journey. So, tune in and let the adventure inspire your own Japanese escapade, filled with unexpected experiences and cherished memories.

Josh Bogle

haven't even come close to scratching the surface. It's Tray almost overwhelming once you get in and realize, just, you know what all there is. It's an amazing country and it's one that I would think most travelers who have not been there would have very high Japan on their list. And if you've been there, then it's probably still really high up on your list because you're just looking for an excuse to go back.

Josh Bogle

So this first episode in the series is going to be more or less a kind of overview, tips and tricks, do's and don'ts, things to help you get your bearings when you first get to Japan. How do you arrive? How do you get to the city from the airports? What airports are you going to arrive in the best places to stay, how you get around. All those types of things are going to be a part of this first episode and then the next episode I'm going to give more of a trip report, if you will, where I basically take all the trips that I've done, compress them into one and go through a trip report allowing you to see, kind of, how I've traveled, the things that I've seen and what you might want to do when you first go to Japan. So let's not waste a lot of time here, let's get right into this deal. So I will tell you that if you have not been before, don't be freaked out. When you freak out when you get there. It is a lot, japan is a lot, and the reason I say that is because most likely you will arrive into the country in Tokyo and, frankly, nothing can prepare you for Tokyo.

Josh Bogle

I live in the fourth largest city in the United States and then we have several million people in this city and it is huge and it is nothing compared to Tokyo. Tokyo has, I think, 34 million people. Now I mean, think about that 34 million people. It is massive, it is overwhelming, it is loud, it is nonstop, people are everywhere and it is beautiful and it is magic and it has a rhythm that is unmatched by anywhere else in the world. So embrace that nervousness and embrace that overwhelmingness when you first get to Japan, because it is going to happen. I have never met anyone that has traveled or experienced Japan especially if they arrive in Tokyo that has not felt that overwhelming anxiety for at least the first day.

Josh Bogle

So be prepared for that, because it will fucking punch you in the mouth. I mean, that is straight up. Here we are. You've never seen shit like this. So get ready, because we're going to kick your ass and it does. It just overwhelms you right from the start. But once you get actually into the city and you get amongst the people and you start crossing the streets and looking for a place eat and experiencing the convenience stores and all of those things, it is wild, just unadulterated wild.

Josh Bogle

And I will tell you another thing that's interesting about your first trip to Japan Be prepared for the people to not care, and what I mean by that is it's not that they're not friendly, it's not that they're not nice, but Japan is its own thing, whereas a lot of countries will kind of tailor themselves to visitors right To foreigners that come on vacations or trips or whatever. Japan is not that place. Japan, you know, just only recently started really putting up signs in multiple languages, and one of the reasons was because the Olympics were going to be held there and they kind of had to right. So before that I mean when I went before, especially the first trip, you know they had just started even looking at doing that.

Josh Bogle

You know, there were plenty of places that I went into where there was no English menus. You were doing the full pictures because there was not English menus. So that has changed. Some in Japan there are more and more signs and menus and other things that are in English menus and other things that are in English. But, like I said, don't expect that to be the case, because you know Japan does not bend or model itself to work for anyone but its own people. No-transcript, they are there to cater to Japanese.

Josh Bogle

So be aware of that and, like I said, embrace it, try something new, point and pray. You know I've talked about that before. Give it a shot. If it looks good, try it. You may not know what it is, but try it. It's worth the story, if nothing else. I mean come on, you're in Japan, for God's sake, let it ride.

Josh Bogle

Also know that while Japan can be very progressive in its culture because of things such as anime or manga or the different subcultures that have been embraced within Japan, while all of those things exist and are tolerated and are perfectly acceptable, japan is still a very deeply traditional country and there are social norms that are expected of people and, as a foreigner, as a tourist.

Josh Bogle

Those are expected of you as well, and so please be aware of those things. It does not burden you, it's not very much of a hassle, but it's just things to be aware of. I'll give some examples. When you're on the train, right and when I say train I mean local trains, so the subway, the commuter trains in Tokyo, any of those types of trains. I'm not talking about bullet trains in this situation, just the commuter trains Be aware that you do not drink. You do not eat on the train. If you do, I will tell you right now there will be a Japanese auntie who will give you the biggest side-eye look of disapproval that you have ever seen. That tiny woman will make you feel about two inches tall. Just don't do it. There's a reason the trains are so clean. It's because people do not bring food on the train.

Josh Bogle

They do not eat on the train. They do not drink on the train. If you need something to drink, get it at one of the machines on the platform, drink it, throw it away and be done with it. Do not bring the damn thing on the train Because if you do, everyone will look at you like you're an asshole. Don't be an asshole in Japan. Another thing about the trains if you get a call or if you're listening to music or a podcast or whatever you're doing to pass the time while you're on the train, do not play it out loud. Do not take a phone call and start a conversation out loud Because again, you're going to catch that side eye and you're going to be that asshole. And, like I said before, do not be that asshole. If you need to talk on the phone, wait till you get off on the platform. Do not do it on the train. It's just the way it is and, frankly, it makes riding the trains in Tokyo and around Japan in the cities a much more enjoyable experience Because, like I said, there is not trash on those trains. They are clean. They might be old, they might be an older car and they might show some wear, but they will be clean, and it's because people respect those norms, those societal norms and those societal rules that everyone follows in Japan, whether it's a little kid or it's a very old auntie and uncle you follow those rules.

Josh Bogle

Now, on the flip side of that, if you're riding on a bullet train, one of the great joys of traveling in Japan is eating on the bullet train. I know it sounds contradictory to what I just said, but if you're traveling long distance on the bullet train, it is very much a tradition to go to one of the stores in the train stations. They have these big stores and all they sell is Ekiban. And Ekiban boxes are almost like lunch boxes, right, they are a usually a some type of little box. They cover the gamut of food in Japan and some of them are even regional, like it'll be a specialty from a certain region in Japan.

Josh Bogle

Do yourself a favor. Let's say you're going from Tokyo to Osaka or Tokyo to Kyoto. Buy you a couple of those boxes, get you a couple of drinks, get on the train, settle in. Get you a couple of drinks, get on the train, settle in, enjoy the magnificence of the Shinkansen, of the bullet train, and sit there and enjoy your food. It is not only acceptable to do it on the train, it is downright expected because pretty much everyone on that train will bring something to eat onto it. It's just the way it is. Again, and it's such a good time, I usually overbuy so much and will buy like four or five of the damn things, not because I think I can eat that much, but because I want to try them all.

Josh Bogle

And the cool thing about the stores are they have pictures up, usually of the inside of the box, so you can see what they look like. So when you look down and you can't read any of the writing on the box beyond a picture of a cow, so you know it's probably beef or whatever. You can see the inside and get an idea if that might be something that you want to eat. It's an amazing way to travel in Japan. It's just watching Japan go by from the window of a bullet train that's moving along at 150 miles an hour and you sit there and enjoy your meal and just watch it go by. It's spectacular. Sit there and enjoy your meal and just watch it go by it's spectacular.

Josh Bogle

Another item about Japanese culture that every time I experience it I fall into line with it very quickly, and every time I get back to America from Japan, I instantly get pissed off that we as Americans are not doing these same things. And this may seem like a small thing, but it's more than just the actual act. It's a matter of respect, it's a matter of caring about the other person and it's not overt, it's not one of those things where you're saying those things. It's just a matter of how you act, and that is as hard as it is to believe.

Josh Bogle

The experience of riding a people mover or an escalator in Japan and what I mean is that when people ride, for example, an escalator In Tokyo, you stand on the left and if people need to get up and you need to actually take the steps and not just stand, they take the right. And so people will line up in an orderly line fashion to get on the escalator. Nobody's skipping, nobody's jumping a line, nobody's trying to sneak in at the last minute. People will orderly line up to get on the escalator and people that are not climbing the escalator in other words, they're just riding it will stay to the left out of the way so that people on the right can make their way up. The escalator. Never fails, never fails. People just don't stand willy-nilly out in the middle of a people who are an escalator, blocking half of the folks from getting up or whatever. It is so orderly and so uncluttered that it just works.

Josh Bogle

And every time I get back to the US and get on the same escalator or people mover or whatever it is, and there's people all over the place and people jumping in at the last second and some people are blocking the entire. You know people mover where you can't get by them if you're in a hurry or anything, and they just don't care that it's there. It will drive you crazy, drive you insane. I mean it just, oh God, it goes all over me and eventually I fall back into you know it not bothering me nearly as bad. Once I, uh, once I've been back in the States for a while, it it's still very frustrating, but you know I I just deal with it because nothing's going to change about it. So be prepared that when you travel in Japan, there will be things, especially on the efficiency side, that will happen while you're there, that you will become used to, side that will happen while you're there, that you will become used to, and whenever you get home, no matter where your home may be, more than likely those same efficiency things, those same movements or same ways of handling something will not be how they were in Japan, and it will piss you off. It will make you so mad that you're having to wait or that somebody is not being patient or not being considerate. It will just go all over you. So I'm just giving you fair warning that that will in fact occur.

Josh Bogle

Also. Let's talk about trash. First of all. You're not going to see a whole lot of it at least just you know lying strewn on the street. Japan is consistently pretty damn clean, but be prepared to be confused about where all that trash has gone, because you are not going to see trash cans on the street. You just won't. They don't exist. There is no trash cans that are publicly available that I've ever seen on the street in Japan. So what I usually do is I just stuff it into my backpack, or I will have a little like Ziploc bag or something like that in my backpack that I can put the trash in until I find a trash can that I can get rid of it all, because, again, you don't want to be an asshole that's caught throwing trash on the ground. Don't be that person, right? So just take it with, because the few places that you will find trash cans when you're out and about are going to be places like restaurants, especially fast food restaurants, right, like. So if you dive into a Moss Burger or McDonald's or something like that, they will usually have trash cans. Train stations, for the most part, will have trash cans in them, including the public bathrooms inside the train stations. Also, you know, standalone public bathrooms. Some department stores will have trash cans around places like that. But if you expect to be able to just you know, use a trash can on the street, you're not going to find them. They just don't exist. So be prepared that trash will require you to carry that until you find a place to dispose of it, because trash cans are just few and far between.

Josh Bogle

Okay, so now that we turn toward the actual nuts and bolts of arriving at the airport in Japan and getting from the airport to the hotel, how that works, what you need to do and how to function day-to-day in Japan. So once you get to the airport and you make it through immigration and customs and all of the legal formalities of entering a country that you're not a resident of. Don't rush right away and head down to whatever transport you've picked out to head to the city, because there's a lot of things that you can accomplish at the airport, whether it be Narita or Haneda, before you leave. That will save you time and hassle once you get into the city. So a couple of things. First, if you've arranged for a pocket Wi-Fi or a SIM card you've arranged for a pocket Wi-Fi or a SIM card you can pick those up at the airport, and most places kind of require you to pick it up at the airport, right? So if you've done any type of reservation for those items, you can always pick those up at the airport. There's plenty of desks and they'll tell you exactly where to go to pick up a pocket Wi-Fi or some card. If you're using an eSIM, then that's really not a concern for you.

Josh Bogle

But what I like to do is use the pocket Wi-Fis, and the reason I say that is because you can just turn this little pocket Wi-Fi on. It's about the size of a really thick credit card or a wallet a men's wallet, of a really thick credit card or a wallet a men's wallet and you can connect multiple devices to it wherever you basically go, so you don't really have to worry too much about switching out a SIM card or trying to get the eSIM set up or anything like that. You basically get the pocket Wi-Fi, turn it on, put in the password and you're up and rolling right and then you're on Wi-Fi the entire. It's a really it's a nice way to go when you're in Japan. I've I've used it three times at this point and I've never had an issue once. So you can pick that up at the airport.

Josh Bogle

Another thing to do that relates to transport is you can buy or pick up, if you've already pre-bought, your tickets for the Kasei Skyliner, if you're using that to get into Tokyo, or the Narita Express, if you're using that to get into Tokyo. So you can either purchase if you don't have them yet, or you can pick up your reserve tickets for both those ways to get into the city. And then, lastly, one of the biggest things that I think you should do if you have an iPhone, download the SuicaCard app before you go and load it with some money. If you don't have an iPhone, I don't believe the SuicaCard is supported on Android at this point, so you have to get a physical SuicaCard. You can get those at the airport as well, right, and then you can take it over to the machine and load it up with some money.

Josh Bogle

And what the Suica card is? It's primarily used as a way to pay your fares when you're using public transportation. Right, and it's not just for Tokyo. These preloaded cards are used all over Japan for public transportation. So buses, trains, trams, you name it, you can use it. But the other thing is that you can use them as payment for places like 7-Eleven and Family Mart, and a bunch of different shops and restaurants take a Suica card as payment. So it's kind of easy to have an all-in-one payment that you can use in and around Tokyo and Japan, and it's also, of course, super convenient for using on the train. So pick yourself up a Suica card before you leave the airport.

Josh Bogle

And one last thing that I always do when I travel, no matter where it is, whether it's Japan or any other country is I always go to the ATM and pull out some money to have cash on hand. Now, this is especially important in Japan, where, but cash is still very much king and there are many stores and restaurants, especially the mom and pop type of restaurants and stores, that will only take cash. So just be aware of that and always keep a little bit of cash on you while you're moving around in Japan, because it's likely that you'll run into a situation where you'll want to pick something up or buy a drink, or whatever it may be, and the place you're at will only take cash. All right, so now it's time to head into the city. You've got all your little things that you need to do to set up your phone and to be able to pay for things, and so you're ready to go. You've got your tickets in hand and it's time to head to the city. You're super excited, all right.

Josh Bogle

So now you've got options, and those options usually consist of the Narita Express or the Kaisei Skyliner. Both of those trains are high speed trains that get you into Tokyo, but on different parts of the city. So if you're staying on the west side of Tokyo due west or northwest probably the best option for you is to take the Narita Express, and the Narita Express goes into Shinjuku Station, which is on the west side of Tokyo. It will have a more direct line to other stations near Shinjuku. You can use the Narita Express to get to that side of town.

Josh Bogle

Now, on the other hand, if you're staying on, like the northeast, to the east side of Tokyo, then your best option to get into the city is probably going to be this Kaisei Skyliner. And this is the one I have the experience with, because I usually stay in Nippori Station, which kind of sits in the northeast quadrant of the Yamanote Line, which is the circle line around Tokyo. And then this last trip I actually stayed in Okachimachi, which is just south of Yuwaino, so again on the east side of Tokyo. So it makes the most sense to take the Kaisei Skyliner, because the Kaisei Skyliner has two stops, which are Nippori Station and the other being Yuwaino Station, and the nice thing about this was because our hotel was very close to Yuwaino Station. Once we got off the train, we could just walk a few blocks to the hotel. Very convenient. Those two options are by far the fastest and easiest to get you into the city.

Josh Bogle

Now there are other options, those being taking a taxi. But even at the current exchange rate, that would be a pretty expensive ride, especially from Narita, depending on where you're staying, and it could be a pretty expensive ride from Haneda, even if you're, you know, on the other side of town. So I don't know that I would go with the taxi option at this point. And then the last option really is the hotel bus, and these buses pick up passengers from the airports and run a prescribed route to certain major tourist hotels and areas within the city and drop you off reasonably close, so you don't have to worry about having to walk too far. All right, so now you've made it into the city.

Josh Bogle

Next stop the hotel. Now, obviously, you will have your hotels already reserved and they will be waiting for you to arrive. So it's not like you're making these decisions on the fly, but there are definitely some ways to make decisions about where you stay and in what hotel you stay. That will help make your trip overall much more convenient and easier. Now, tokyo is huge and there's hotels all over the place, so you have plenty of options.

Josh Bogle

But especially on your first time visiting and actually I do this every time I go, because it just makes life so much easier is to get a hotel near one of the major stations, that is, on what's called the Yamanote Line. It's also known as the Green Line or the Circle Line. It's a, as it states, a circle line around the interior of Tokyo, right. So it goes to all the major stations Tokyo Station, yuwaino, ikeburo, shibuya, shinjuku, akihabara, shibuya, shinjuku, nippori, anyway, it goes to all of the very large train stations and thus, by doing so, an attraction that's not near one of the major Yamanote line stations. Those stations all have multiple lines of the other train services coming into them right. So it's a great place to transit to another line or to transfer to another line that will get you closer to your destination.

Josh Bogle

So I always try to stay on the Yamanote line because, man, it makes things so much easier. And I didn't really truly understand this until this first trip, because I was staying at a hotel, a business hotel called the APA, and APA is all over Japan and I'll talk about it more in a second. But the hotel that I was staying at was at the Nippori station, right on the Yamanote line, and so I could walk out of the front of my hotel and within two minutes I could be inside Napori Station, right, which I could get on the Yamanote line and go anywhere in the city. It was a perfect gateway, also at Napori Station. One of the reasons I actually ended up staying at Napori twice is because it's not quite as busy, right, it's not like Shinjuku station, where 3 million people pass through that station every single day. Napori is not that big and the area around the station is not quite as busy. So it's a nice respite from you know what is a mega city? Where people are around you all the time. There's always sound. This is a nice little respite from that.

Josh Bogle

Now, speaking of hotels, if you're traveling alone or maybe even as a couple I wouldn't do this with kids. I mean, you could if you wanted to get a couple of rooms, but in Japan there's basically what are kind of known as business hotels, right, and there's multiple brands that have these hotels. Most of them are all Japanese brands, but they're around major stations, are a lot more reasonably priced for you know the salarymen, the workers in Japan that come either live in the suburbs, that come in and work in Tokyo during the week and stay in a hotel or, you know, visiting from other cities, and they're small rooms. So don't be under any illusions that these hotels have big rooms because they are tiny. Right, they are very small, but the beds are comfortable, they're super clean. The rooms are small, the bathroom is small, but if it's one person or maybe two.

Josh Bogle

You can get a room at most of these places, for I don't know. I think in 2018, I may have paid $60 a night in a city that is generally considered pretty expensive. Lodging and things in Tokyo are usually pretty pricey. Even here recently, I think, it's not much more over $100 a night, which is a steal in Tokyo For the location and the ease.

Josh Bogle

Man, if you're traveling by yourself or even, like I said, as a couple, look at these business hotels because they're a great option. They also usually have like laundry facilities and sometimes they'll have little restaurants for like breakfast and things. So they're a great option. If you don't particularly care about the room being, you know, a massive, you know Western US size room, because you're going to be spending so much time out in the city that it's more of a place to come back to and crash at right. It's not for lounging around during the day. It's a great option and will save you a ton of money and, like I said, are always in really nice, ideal locations of areas that you want to be in. So that's got you covered if you're a single traveler, a solo traveler or a couple, but what about if you're a family or there's more than two of you, right, like it's a larger group or, whatever the situation may be, there's more than two of you. Well, I have a fix for that too.

Josh Bogle

As I kind of alluded to in the business hotel discussion, hotel rooms in Japan, even in more high-end hotels, tend to be on the small side, so that makes it tough when there's several people that are wanting to stay either in the same room or close to each other. Now I recently faced this issue when my family recently did a two-week vacation in Japan. We had to figure out where to stay because of our two kids, because we wanted to give them their own beds and places to kind of call their own while we were traveling, but at the same time, you know, we didn't want to spend an absolute fortune doubling up hotel rooms or finding some other type of, you know, really large accommodation. So I spent a lot of time digging around the internet or, you know, reading Reddit posts and blogs and vlogs and everything else, and came across a certain style of hotel that is basically set up for families. It's really an amazing concept in that they have these almost like apartments that have a kitchenette, have multiple beds, have a living room room, maybe a dining room with a table and essentially just all around a bunch of space. So they were perfect.

Josh Bogle

The one we stayed at was the mamaru brand mamaru m-i-m-a-r-u. Mamaru brand of hotel in okachimachi slash Ueno area, and I can't speak highly enough about it. It was again just like the business hotels super clean, super convenient, probably a I don't know three, three and a half minute walk to the train station, to the Yamanote line In fact, from the hotel. Plenty of places around there to eat, plenty of convenience stores. It had a kitchenette, it had bunk beds and then it had basically a queen bed plus a tatami room, a dining room. It was fantastic for our family. And then they also had laundry services downstairs that you could use. That we certainly did use, and so it's just a great hotel.

Josh Bogle

Now, obviously it's more expensive than the business hotels I was previously talking about, but you're getting a ton more space and more amenities with this hotel than you are at the business hotel. But, like I said, the business hotels are perfect for one or two people and these hotels, these apartment cell hotels, are just fantastic for three, four, five, six people. I think we could have well, we could have easily slept six people in this hotel and again, they're very close to the train station and the Yamanote line. They're in really good locations that are close to other things that you want to go do while you're in Tokyo. So I know there's other brands out there that have the same style of hotel. So I would recommend that if you are traveling with your family or a larger group man, do yourself a favor and look for these hotels, because they're certainly worth having that extra room with the extra people, and it makes it so much more enjoyable when everybody kind of has their own space and has room to. You know, get away from each other a little bit so that you don't you don't irritate your other other members of your party when you've had too much togetherness, if you know what I'm saying. All right, so now we've conquered the stay, we've managed to make it to the airport, get through the airport, get on the train, get to the hotel and choose the right hotel for us. And choose the right hotel for us.

Josh Bogle

Now how do we get around this massive behemoth of a city known as Tokyo? Well, as I've mentioned previously, it's all about the Yamanote line, the green line, by the way. Quick side note here Google Maps is an amazing tool in tokyo. It actually works really well for getting you from one place to the next, especially using the trains. It will tell you the platforms to be on, the cars to be on the directions of the train. It does a fantastic job. So, just as a side note, utilize google, google Maps, while you're in Tokyo, because it will help you navigate the trains extremely well.

Josh Bogle

But back to what I was going to say, the Yamanote line. It will be your best friend the entire time you're in Tokyo because it will allow you to get everywhere and from it you can get to all the other public transportation that Tokyo has to offer. So don't fret about being able to get places in Tokyo, because the public transportation is extremely good and if you leverage, like I said, the Google Maps along with understanding a little bit about the line, you will have no problems getting anywhere. But if you do have some trepidation about public transportation or you want to have a little bit more direct line to somewhere you're pressed for time or there's some issue where you need to get someplace at a specific time and you're afraid that you don't have that room for error, then go ahead and take a taxi. There's an app called the GoTaxi app that I used when we were in Japan and it works brilliantly to hail cabs, and I used it in Tokyo and I used it in Kyoto and it worked both places extremely well.

Josh Bogle

And one thing I will note, at least during this time period, is that, with the yen being as weak as it is against the dollar, the price for taking a taxi is actually pretty cheap right now in Japan, and we actually used cabs several times in this latest trip that we had because, frankly, the price was really really reasonable and, uh, it allowed us to get some places that didn't have the best public transportation options. So we, uh, we used cabs and it worked out beautifully, so don't be afraid to take them. I know you hear horror stories that oh, oh, they're so expensive in Japan and everything, and normally I would say, yes, that is the case, but during this time at least, like I said, with how the yen is against the dollar, it's worth your time to explore and see if that's a really good option for you. Well, everyone, I've thrown out quite a bit of information in this podcast and so hopefully you'll be able to use that the next time you're in Japan, and it will make the trip just that much better. Now, remember to keep in mind that this is only the first episode in this what will likely be a two-episode miniseries on traveling within Japan, with the next episode being more about sites to visit and attractions to go see, restaurants to eat at, parks, to stroll in and all those unique things that make Japan such a dynamic and amazing destination to visit.

Josh Bogle

So thanks to everyone for listening to this podcast. I've really enjoyed it. Japan is one of my absolute favorite places in the entire world, so I love getting the chance to talk about it more and share what I've learned so far in my travels with you all. So thanks again for listening. I'm so grateful for all of you that have taken the time to check out the podcast and listen to the episodes. It means the world to me. So thank you, thank you, thank you for doing that. If you are enjoying the episodes in the podcast, I would really appreciate it if you could take a few minutes of time and rate and review the podcast on Apple Podcasts and Spotify. That really helps bring the podcast up in the rankings and gives it more visibility to new listeners and helps us grow. So if you could take the time to do that, I would greatly appreciate it. So thanks again for listening and I'll see you on the next episode.

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Josh Bogle

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