Ep#2 - How He Redefined C-Level Leadership for SMEs | Featuring Tanvir Haque

Join us for the latest Alphapreneurs episode as host Rayhan Aleem speaks with tax and risk management expert Tanvir Haque, a Fractional CXO, with over 25 years of international experience in tax, audit, and business advisory services at top firms like PwC and Andersen.

Tanvir discusses how his extensive international experience across multiple industries has influenced his approach to coaching, helping businesses around the world achieve greater success. As a catalyst for professional growth, he has empowered entrepreneurs and industry leaders to tap into the vast knowledge he has acquired over the years.

He explains how fractional CXOs offer flexible leadership that drives results without the full-time commitment, and how this model redefines C-level roles to adapt to modern business needs especially for SME’s.

He also discusses how to eliminate entrepreneurial pitfalls and distortions that can harm a business and offers strategies for controlling risks to improve profit margins

LinkedIn: Tanvir Haque
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Who Am I?

My name is Rayhan Aleem, Founder and CEO of Tax Star and Alpha Pro Partners. At  Alphapreneurs podcast I sit with top industry leaders for in-depth conversations that dive deep into their success stories, market dynamics, and firsthand tips on entrepreneurship and profitability. Whether you're just starting out or already running your own business,#Alphapreneurs offers something valuable for everyone.

LinkedIn: Rayhan Aleem

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Sponsors:

1-Alpha Pro Partners:

    -Website: www.alphapartners.co

    -LinkedIn: alphapropartners

2- Tax Star

    -Website: www.taxstar.app

    -LinkedIn: Tax-star

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Transcript

[00:00:00] Tanvir: The challenge is, as you grow, you recognize that you can't do everything anymore. Yeah. and that's, I think, one of the big challenges for entrepreneurs is that sort of transition from letting go. I became fascinated with behavioral economics, I got to work with the Gallup organization who do Some of this stuff really well.

[00:00:22] Tanvir: It was that collaborative sort of collaboration. So all of a sudden there were other people who are in similar situations. I met other people that then became a part of Freshstone consulting. So I think that there's another level of maturity there that the UAE is going to, going to see now.

[00:00:39] Tanvir: Welcome 

[00:00:42] Rayhan: to the Alphapreneurs podcast. I'm your host, Rayhan Aleem. Founder of Tax Star and Alfa Pro Partners. Join me on each episode as we talk to inspiring entrepreneurs who share their stories, challenges, and secrets on building world class businesses. I'm very pleased to have Tanvir Haque join us at the show today.

[00:01:06] Rayhan: Tanvir has an international career spanning over 25 years with expertise on the development and execution of business strategy. Tanvir is also a chartered accountant having previously had successful stints at PwC and Andersen's. He then set up a successful consulting practice supporting global businesses in the Middle East and Africa.

[00:01:31] Rayhan: Recently he now provides CXO services for multinational businesses. Welcome to the show. Thank you very much for joining us today. Thanks for having me. I want to, the first question I want to start with is your background. So you have a fascinating background. So you went from being a tax advisor to now a CXO.

[00:01:50] Rayhan: you work for some global consultancies, and now you work with, large companies, entrepreneurs, providing a CXO service. So can you tell us more about your background? How did you go from. being a tax advisor in EWC all the way to, being a CXO. 

[00:02:08] Tanvir: Yeah, life for me started as a graduate with Pricewaterhouse.

[00:02:16] Tanvir: and like many, young aspiring accountants at the time, the dream was to be, a partner one day of one of these. back then it was the big five. Yeah. so that, that was the dream. and it's funny how. When you reflect back, you think your career is going to go in a certain direction.

[00:02:37] Tanvir: Direction, but along the way, there's different paths that you end up taking. yeah, I started off with Pricewaterhouse, and then, Arthur Anderson, who then changed their name to Anderson. and that's where I really got my, what I would say grounding, in accounting, started off in tax, but within those firms, I also did some general accounting, work.

[00:03:06] Tanvir: Yeah. this probably shows my age, but I remember, with certain clients having to review cash books. Wow. So, I've, Transferred people's data from a physical cash book onto an accounting system. and that's, how I started my career. and during my time at Anderson's, they sent me over to London as part of my development.

[00:03:39] Tanvir: and then I think what changed the course of my career was the collapse of Anderson's, as a result of the collapse of Enron, classic corporate governance failure. Anderson's were the internal auditors or auditors for, Enron and obviously, Some strange things happened, which then caused the collapse of Enron and, Arthur Anderson or Andersons, at the time and that I became disillusioned with the, profession and I thought to myself, do, I really want to be in a position where I may have to, make certain decisions, which put, Integrity at question, values, et cetera.

[00:04:40] Tanvir: And I decided to leave the profession. and I took, six months out, I traveled around Europe and then luckily I, was working for a really good partner, at Anderson's and he then, put me in touch with Standard Chartered Bank. and I ended up working at Standard Chartered Bank for a few years, and then ended up in a HR function.

[00:05:04] Tanvir: So it was really from tax and accounting to a HR 

[00:05:09] Rayhan: function. So would you say that, part of being a CXO is the fact that you've built a lot of these, skills, depth of skills in your career that's helped you become the CXO that you are now where you can. do lots of different aspects of strategy in different roles as well.

[00:05:27] Tanvir: Absolutely. Absolutely. I think without a doubt, I think, like I said earlier, Pricewaterhouse and, Andersons, they really give you the grounding of, your, your ability to be a future leader. they really, give you solid training. and without that, I don't think I would be, be where I am today.

[00:05:53] Tanvir: and then, the, thing about standard chartered was, ending up in a HR function. And yes, I was doing a very similar role to what I was already doing at Anderson's, which was related to tax and international assignment programs. the HR director, gave me the opportunity to learn more about, what HR actually does.

[00:06:18] Tanvir: And in fact, it was a bit of a sort of a profound moment in my career because what that experience allowed me to do was understand behavioral economics. And so as an accountant, we are all looking at numbers every day, but that experience actually led me to understand that those numbers. Actually are a result of behaviors.

[00:06:43] Tanvir: and so I became fascinated with behavioral economics. I got to work with the Gallup organization who do some of this stuff really, well. they're a research company, but they're based, it's a US based company, but they've been around for 50, 60 years. Most people know them as pollsters doing, the Gallup polls.

[00:07:04] Tanvir: But actually. they're behavioral scientists. so they drive, so yeah, just the ability to understand how behaviors drive numbers was, 

[00:07:18] Rayhan: Can you give us some examples of behaviors that you've come across that, that drive numbers? 

[00:07:22] Tanvir: Yeah, so I guess the, what Gallup's philosophy is, all about, allowing people to play to their strengths.

[00:07:33] Tanvir: They have some tools that, identify or help people identify what their talents are. And then, certain organizations like standard chartered want to build strengths based organizations. So when they're hiring people, they're the way they manage those people is to allow them to play to their strengths.

[00:07:56] Tanvir: for myself, for example, my 5 key strengths from the Gallup perspective is, I'm competitive. I love to learn. I love to develop people. I love to influence people. and if I'm in a environment where I can use those talents and play to those talents. And I'm going to be a happy employee, or a happy person.

[00:08:20] Tanvir: so that, that was really key, a key part of my career. and then after that, I had an opportunity to go and start working with some entrepreneurs. I had a, friend that wanted to, start up a biodiesel, manufacturing facility, and he said, can you come and help me build a business plan and a bit of a strategy?

[00:08:49] Tanvir: And I'd left Sounder Chartered to almost, that, that was the beginning of what I would probably say is that fractional CXO journey. Yeah. so being able to bring different functional, expertise and elements that I've picked up during my career into the world of entrepreneurship and, helping people who own businesses.

[00:09:15] Tanvir: Yeah. to solve business problems around how to grow, how to become more profitable. Yeah. which, any business owner, even like yourself, those are the problems or those are the opportunities and challenges that you really want to address as a business owner. 

[00:09:32] Rayhan: So just for the listeners, what is a CXO?

[00:09:39] Rayhan: how would you describe that kind of role and what type of, Stage, would you need something like that as an, entrepreneur? 

[00:09:47] Tanvir: Yeah, look, I think a CXO is just a fancy word for a business coach, to be honest, or just a leader that comes into your business that has some good specific experience or mixture of experience skills.

[00:10:05] Tanvir: and talent, so, that's what I think, a CXO is just someone who's got the ability, to step in, to a business and act as a leader, not necessarily a full time leader, but a part time leader. So a lot of entrepreneurs, a lot of startups, a lot of SMEs, they can't afford a full time CFO.

[00:10:31] Tanvir: Yeah. So let's take a CFO as an example. Generally, they, by the time you get to a CFO level, you've got 15 to 20 years experience behind you. Yeah. and startups and, small businesses, they can't afford A full time CFO, so a fractional CXO is, as the name suggests, they come in maybe one day a week, half day a week, whatever that is, and you pay for that service on a fractional basis.

[00:11:01] Rayhan: I think also the key thing about CXO is you're there are weaknesses that entrepreneurs have. And you're basically filling in those gaps as well. and what I resonate about the HR, function that you did at Standard Chartered is the fact that one of the key limits to growth for entrepreneurs is the HR function.

[00:11:24] Rayhan: They don't have a HR function and they don't hire the right people. And they don't hire for values necessarily. They don't have a value statement that they want to hire employees on. have you, what, kind of experience have you had in helping the HR side for entrepreneurs? So look, probably, 

[00:11:44] Tanvir: probably not as much, because generally the type of work that I'm doing at the moment revolves more around setting or establishing a strategy and then executing that strategy.

[00:11:57] Tanvir: but, executing that strategy requires the right people because one of the main reasons that strategies fail is because you haven't got the right people. you haven't got the right culture in your business. you haven't got the right reward structure in place. So they're, they're common challenges.

[00:12:19] Tanvir: Look, I think, the bane of all entrepreneurs and, small business owners is people. if you ask them what their number one challenge is, they will generally say people. Yeah. because what happens is they'll, hire some good people initially, and then they'll learn, they'll develop, and then they get snapped up.

[00:12:43] Tanvir: or they did, they might. the career progression sort of gets halted because of the size of the business. so yeah, I think, that is a challenge, remains constant in my view. you're always, looking, for talent, to grow. and it's also part of the growing pains of an SME as well.

[00:13:11] Tanvir: I think the challenge is as you grow. you recognize that you can't do everything anymore. and that's, I think one of the big challenges for entrepreneurs is that sort of transition from letting go. and so what I find or what I try and do, with entrepreneurs and, business owners is, there's a classic case where they're working in the business rather than working on the business.

[00:13:39] Tanvir: Exactly. Yeah. it's yeah. So trying to get them to. it's, difficult because you need to have the right people to let go a bit so that you can then focus on the business. Yeah. so look, I think it's just, if, you can have a good talent acquisition process where you can identify the right talent for what you need, great.

[00:14:07] Tanvir: and then it's, whether you can compete with everyone else to grab that talent and that's the challenge. Because you're not the only entrepreneur in the world, you're not the only sort of business in the world, you're all fighting for the same talent, generally. but I think going back to my standard charter days and, a lot of the books that you read, it's higher for attitude rather than hiring for skills and experience because you can actually teach.

[00:14:36] Tanvir: And learn skills, whereas it's much more difficult to teach talent. 

[00:14:43] Rayhan: Yeah, no, I a hundred percent, in my organization, whenever we go through the selection process of accountants, for AlphaPro, the first thing we look at is attitude. We have a strong culture, and it all starts from obviously our values, but also the hiring process as well, and making sure that when we hire the right accountants, we're hiring for attitude first.

[00:15:11] Rayhan: myself, I'm not too fussed if they're qualified or not, they can do the job, then great. if they can't do the job. It doesn't matter if you're a chartered accountant or, someone who's got 20 years of experience. You just can't do the job and you're just going to create problems. So let me 

[00:15:27] Tanvir: ask you a question.

[00:15:28] Tanvir: So let's be specific. So what characteristic or what attitude are you specifically hiring for? can you name it? Yeah, 

[00:15:37] Rayhan: No, a hundred percent. So we have, one of the key focuses for us is customer, which means that we need to have, accountants or account managers who can go the extra mile, help the entrepreneur.

[00:15:57] Rayhan: so one of the things we hire for is, you Do they have good customer service? Do they have, do our account managers, are they empathetic towards the needs of an entrepreneur? some entrepreneur, there's many entrepreneurs. They, they have certain characteristics, but they effectively need help.

[00:16:15] Rayhan: Some ask for help in a aggressive way, some in an, in a, passive aggressive way. And some they ask for help. They probably don't ask for help, but you have to figure out what that help is. And so there's a bit of empathy that some of our accountants need to have with the entrepreneur. and then it's having strong communication.

[00:16:37] Rayhan: If you have strong communication skills with your account manager, you can build that relationship. If you don't have good strong, good communication skills, if you're asking for something and you just do a one line in one line email, it's transactional that, interaction. Whereas if you say to the entrepreneur, look, we need your bank statements because we need to, reconcile your accounts.

[00:17:03] Rayhan: We need to make sure that accounts receivables are up to date. They understand the end goal of why we're asking that. and so that's also important in terms of when we hire, account managers, because it's a very much a people person, the accounting business, and that's really important. We don't do complicated accounts.

[00:17:25] Rayhan: We do, we work with small businesses, so we're not working with, big blue chip companies. So the accounting process is not too complicated. A lot of the skills can be learned, within six months. so that's why I don't necessarily go with qualified accountants. if we do find them great, but we go for more attitude based accountants, do they have the right attitude?

[00:17:50] Rayhan: Do they have empathy? that's what we go for. Yeah. 

[00:17:53] Tanvir: Yeah, I must say. going back to your earlier question of how I got into, being a fractional CXO or, fractional leader, business coach, I think. To be honest, I think accountants are sometimes their worst, their own worst enemy, really, honestly, because, so if you look at what accountants do, I think what they do really well is the compliance stuff, right?

[00:18:24] Tanvir: So, they can get the books done, whether they're complex or not complex. They, they're often not accessible either. and then pricing. So some accountants, are still living in the day of trying to sell the hour rather than fixed priced product and service, which a lot of accountants have now moved to.

[00:18:52] Tanvir: but actually based on my experience and asking entrepreneurs, What do they really want from their accountant or, business coach or someone who understands accounting finance, what they actually want is someone to help them grow and become profitable. That's the number one thing that I find entrepreneurs.

[00:19:18] Tanvir: one to a need because they get to a stage where they need to take that next jump. so I think you probably know him, Greg Crabtree talks about the black hole, those million dollar companies going from a million to 5 million. And they struggle in that sort of middle stage because they've got to take that step.

[00:19:41] Tanvir: they, like we were talking about earlier, they've got to now employ more people to, to make that growth. And so often that's what they're looking there, for the accountant, CXO to help them with. So that's why I think the accounting profession. in my view needs to step up and I'm not talking about, the big four, big five, I'm talking about firms like yourself, where you are, like you say, you're, identifying that need from an entrepreneur, but not just producing the books for them, but then talking to them about what are those numbers actually telling you.

[00:20:23] Rayhan: Yeah. 

[00:20:24] Tanvir: and that's where the value is in my view. And yes, entrepreneurs, you're going to have some entrepreneurs who are very, savvy financially and understand the numbers. 

[00:20:37] Rayhan: Yep. 

[00:20:38] Tanvir: But what I've found, and so that's the case, but often those ones are actually too busy to look at their numbers properly to see what it's telling them.

[00:20:48] Tanvir: And then you'll have some entrepreneurs who just don't have a gut for numbers. and that do need that extra coaching around, these are the numbers. Yeah. But this is what the numbers are telling me about my business. And I think that's the opportunity for accountants in my view. 

[00:21:07] Rayhan: So your first business venture was Freshstone.

[00:21:10] Rayhan: This is your first kind of entrepreneur, is your first journey to entrepreneurship. and Freshstone was a consulting business, back in the UK. Tell us more about how you transitioned from being, an employee to an entrepreneur. we have many listeners who have gone through that process or maybe be thinking about, I'm, I've got a great idea, but I want to start a business.

[00:21:34] Rayhan: having, you've obviously been through that stage, previously before, what kind of things would you share about that? how did, how we, how were you able to get clients? How were you able to service them? Is there any challenges that you found that you was able to overcome? Yeah. 

[00:21:51] Tanvir: Oh God.

[00:21:52] Tanvir: it's, there's lots of unpack there. yeah. So look, Freshstone was, I guess the first entrepreneurial venture. Which sort of lasted a good 14, 15 years, spanning both the UK and then Dubai. After Standard Chartered, I decided, that's enough. I want to go out on my own and I want to do some consulting.

[00:22:19] Tanvir: I want to work with entrepreneurs. I want to work with business owners and solve business problems. That's how I started One Man Band. And it's funny because it's much harder than what you anticipate or expect because What had happened was up until then, you build a lot of relationships, you build a lot of networks, and you think, you know what, I know some good people, I know they're going to give me work, but it doesn't work that way, because it's a, it's, a competitive landscape.

[00:22:57] Tanvir: Also they may not be ready. And they may not be ready, true. but generally. if, and when you are pitching for some work, you're pitching against other consulting businesses. 

[00:23:14] Rayhan: Yeah. 

[00:23:15] Tanvir: they may be more mature than you are. they've been around much longer. you, you think that because you're smaller, you're more nimble, but they But what you realize is that people are a little bit more cautious, and they generally want to work with firms that, have a bit more, they've been around a bit more.

[00:23:43] Tanvir: So, that was a huge eye opener for me, and getting my first piece of work was, quite difficult. It took me a good, If I'm trying to remember, it took me a good six months before I landed my first piece of work. And that was with HSBC. Oh, nice. All right. but again, I had to rely on a relationship, to let me in the door and actually pitch for the work.

[00:24:10] Tanvir: and, thankfully, it was a small project. and it was around some of the work that I had done at Standard Chartered around graduate recruitment programs. but this one was in particular for HSBC's finance function and just reviewing that part of the graduate program.

[00:24:32] Tanvir: yeah, And then, luckily, I pitched for another piece of work for a property development company, in London. again, that was through a referral. so a relationship that then referred me to a CEO or property development company, did a piece of work around process re engineering, for, these guys.

[00:24:57] Tanvir: And I think I did a reasonably good job in Do the same piece of work in Dubai and that's how I ended up in Dubai. Nice. so I came over, did a piece of work and to cut the long story short, CEO asked if I wanted to stay on and become the chief operating officer. and I said, look, I've got a young family and they were like, no, move over, come across, come and work for us.

[00:25:28] Tanvir: And actually, this is probably the second piece of bad luck that happened during my career or entrepreneurship journey. That was September 2008. GFC was already, the global financial crisis was already pretty much, or it had hit the UK, but not so much in Dubai. and then, so I, arrived in September 2008 and by December, I realized that the company had gone bankrupt.

[00:26:05] Tanvir: Was in a bit of trouble. Yeah. and lo and behold, company didn't exist by, I think it was January, end of January, 2009. Oh, wow. and so Freshstone was reborn. and so the CFO of, this company and I decided to, start from scratch. and again, It was, but the only difference this time was we were new in Dubai.

[00:26:34] Tanvir: We didn't have many relationships. We didn't have that many contacts. We didn't have that many networks. Yeah. So we were out there, trying to pitch for work in the midst of a financial crisis. 

[00:26:47] Rayhan: But what I like about that is you learn many entrepreneurs. They do very well in good times. And then when bad times happen, they don't understand what made them successful and they crash, right?

[00:27:02] Rayhan: The fact that you was able to grow your business during a there was a depression, not even a recession, a depression, means that you really had to scratch the, the barrel for, work. you learn a lot of lessons. what's interesting for me is, how, what kind of things were you having to do?

[00:27:25] Rayhan: I'm sure you've learned, you learned a lot of lessons through that period. what kind of advice can you give to entrepreneurs off the back of that? 

[00:27:34] Tanvir: It's network and relationships. so if I look at what I was doing back then, I was attending as many networking events as I could, much less than say what I am doing today.

[00:27:47] Tanvir: But back then, that was the first thing. you're not going to win work by sitting at your desk. So it was really, going out, meeting people, trying to get people to introduce you to other people. that's what it was all about. really Just reaching out, connecting to people, and pitching, for work.

[00:28:15] Tanvir: and yeah, so, that then enabled us to, win, some work. So we, we tried to do this whole outsourcing thing. Obviously, with the financial crisis, businesses need to cut costs. So one of the first things we tried to do was pitch accounting outsourcing services, won a couple of clients there.

[00:28:38] Tanvir: We even won clients from Australia. Nice. that, that was, good. And the other part that really, I think, helped was as part of this sort of building relationships, it was that collaboration. So all of a sudden, there were other people who are in similar situations. I met other people that then became a part of Freshstone Consulting.

[00:29:04] Rayhan: Nice. 

[00:29:06] Tanvir: and so they were freelance consultants or working, also impacted by the global financial crisis and needed, to, win work as consultants. And I remember, Kerry, a good, friend of mine who I was introduced to through another person that I'd met while I was networking.

[00:29:32] Tanvir: She had, leadership, development background, coaching CEO, CEOs, and entrepreneurs. And so what I talked to her about, I said, listen, I think we can. We can build a great product where we're coaching business owners and entrepreneurs, not CEOs of large companies. and helping. Helping entrepreneurs identify what they need, in terms of, helping them grow their business.

[00:30:06] Tanvir: and they often needed some coaching, as a leader. and so Kerry provided that service. So that was a service offering, that Freshstone could provide. 

[00:30:18] Rayhan: Have you read the book Trillion Dollar Coach? 

[00:30:20] Tanvir: I've not read the book Trillion Dollar Coach. 

[00:30:25] Rayhan: it's basically, it's about, the coach, Bill Walters, and, he coached Google founders.

[00:30:35] Rayhan: He was the coach for, Steve Jobs as well. Oh, wow. And, one of the, it's an amazing book. There's so much you can learn from it. but the key thing for me, especially for entrepreneurs is, You need to have coaches, you need to have mentors and coaches, no matter where you are, which stage you're at, you just don't know every day you're making decisions and making sure you have the right people around you when you're making those decisions is very important.

[00:31:04] Rayhan: And there's lots of people been there, done that already. And they can definitely give you your, the. expertise that you need. and the fact that you collaborate, collaboration is important as well, because sometimes you may perceive your competition as competition, but actually you can collaborate with them.

[00:31:25] Tanvir: Absolutely. 

[00:31:27] Rayhan: But yeah, so 

[00:31:29] Tanvir: that's off to you. No, thanks. it's interesting you talk about that. And so I'm going to put that book on my reading list. I forgot to mention that I'm actually a Gallup certified strengths coach as well. Nice. So that was something that during my time at Standard Chartered that, like I mentioned, they were building a strengths based organization.

[00:31:49] Tanvir: So what they were doing was building a network of coaches. 

[00:31:54] Rayhan: Yep. 

[00:31:55] Tanvir: and You would end up coaching your colleagues, across the, business. And that's something which I still use today. So it's the Gallup StrengthsFinder. so that's a tool that, that I often use with business owners, with, CEOs or with, CFOs, CMOs, leaders, basically leaders who need some sort of coaching.

[00:32:17] Tanvir: But yeah, Kerry obviously was, a specialist in this area, so we used, we collaborated and that was a part of the service that we offered. 

[00:32:27] Rayhan: So Tanvir, you was, you was at Arthur Anderson at the time. Andersons. Andersons. They changed their name. At the time of the Enron collapse. Yeah. When I was studying my accountancy, it was a case study that, that they kept, repeating over and over again.

[00:32:45] Rayhan: So you don't forget the Enron collapse. And I guess it's obviously to do with accounting irregulations. But what, I would. to know about your experience at that time is not necessarily the intricacies of what happened, right? Because that's more accounting related, but more to do with, you was in an organization where it was going through severe crisis management.

[00:33:07] Rayhan: And an organization where it was about to be extinct. and entrepreneurs, they, live on that line every day. many entrepreneurs are, one week away from, closing the door, switching off the lights because they don't have the cashflow coming in. So from a crisis management point of view, what kind of things can you.

[00:33:35] Rayhan: are you able to, tell us about what happened then, experiences that you can share, that can help other entrepreneurs. 

[00:33:44] Tanvir: Yeah, look, it's interesting. You mentioned that, it was a case study while you were studying your accountancy, exams or, while you were, learning to be an accountant during my MBA.

[00:34:02] Tanvir: So I did an executive MBA a few years ago and. Interestingly in the, the governance module, the professor used the Andersons and Enron example as a classic case of corporate failure. So even in the MBA schools, they're teaching this, case study and having been there and lived through it, it was, at the time you you, you caught up in the Yeah.

[00:34:34] Tanvir: And you don't, actually it's weird, you don't really see it as a crisis. yeah, you, see it as a crisis, but you, it's weird. Things just happen really quickly. and before you know it, the firm is no longer in existence. so I think. From a, and then trying to take that and apply it to the world of an entrepreneur.

[00:35:05] Tanvir: I think that the biggest, learning or the lesson that can be learnt is, and this is the word that gets used commonly nowadays and is, as a profession, is also, growing. Is risk and resilience? 

[00:35:22] Rayhan: Yeah, 

[00:35:23] Tanvir: right. So I think no matter how large or small you are in terms of size of business, it's important that you take the time to know what your risks are.

[00:35:37] Tanvir: And actually, what I try and do is not use the word risky, though, especially when it comes to SMEs or entrepreneurs. I use the word threat. So what are the threats that are going to stop you from achieving your goals or your plans and just be able to identify them? And, it's not you don't have to come up with a list of a hundred threats.

[00:36:01] Tanvir: It's, what are the top threats? So cashflow, 

[00:36:04] Rayhan: you 

[00:36:05] Tanvir: know, that's the top threat for an entrepreneur or, an SME. so once you've identified that, it's then about, okay, how am I going to mitigate it? So what do I need to do, to make sure that I've got cash coming in? Yeah. So does that mean I need someone calling my customers every week?

[00:36:28] Tanvir: To get my, invoices paid as an example, because if you don't have that control, so that's a control mechanism to mitigate that threat, then you could be shutting down because no one's paying you. so I think as an entrepreneur, it's, about taking the time to understand what threats are going to potentially shut your business down.

[00:36:55] Tanvir: Yeah. And once you've identified that. It's then saying, I'm going to have these things in place to try and mitigate that. and, in, in risk management speak, that's all audit speak or internal audit speak. That's controls. So what controls have you got in place to mitigate that threat? And then the resilience bit is all around.

[00:37:17] Tanvir: Okay. So if that threat. Does materialize, and in some cases it will kill you and it will shut you down, but in some cases it won't, and in that situation you've then got to work out, how you're going to continue operating during that disruption or, that sort of event happening and working your way through it so you bounce back.

[00:37:46] Tanvir: And then you should learn from that as well. So it's like this feedback loop around learning from, an uncertain or, from a threat that's actually materialized. Yeah. I don't know if that sort of, it's, the whole Enron thing. Yeah. it's a case study in its own, they teach it at, MBA schools, and obviously in the accounting profession itself.

[00:38:13] Tanvir: Yeah. it is a classic lessons of sort of corporate failure, misstating your financials, is a common, yeah, it's common, even amongst entrepreneurs. So this is actually brings me back to, one of the things I work with, business owners is profit in a, SME or in a entrepreneur's business is often distorted.

[00:38:47] Tanvir: Why is it distorted? Because they're not capturing the right information and data. and one of the biggest thing, again, Verne Harnish talks about this in, scaling up. And so does Greg, Greg Cabtree, So it's about, making sure that as an owner of the business, you're paying market based wages, because if you're not, then you're overstating your profits.

[00:39:16] Tanvir: and so sometimes you need to maintain two separate books because yes, you may not be able to afford to pay yourself a market based wage. but what you should be doing is capturing that, so that you build your business as quickly as possible to pay yourself that market based wage. yeah, it's, it's, being recognizing that you've got to be true to yourself and make sure the numbers reflect the reality.

[00:39:49] Tanvir: I've been to many events where you talk to entrepreneurs and they tell you, Oh, yeah, I'm running at 20 percent profit margin. But when you actually look at their books, they haven't recorded their own salaries because they're taking distributions or they're just, so yeah, that I think, be, true to yourself, get rid of the distortions, from your numbers so that you're really evaluating the correct picture of your business.

[00:40:21] Tanvir: Understand the threats that are going to stop you from achieving your plans. And often that's related to revenue, growth, profit, margin, et cetera. Yes. It's 

[00:40:32] Rayhan: also almost like not living in a false sense of security as well. So Tanvir, you've worked in numerous countries. you've worked in the UK, you've worked in Saudi, you've, you've done business in the UAE and you've also worked in, in Australia as well.

[00:40:47] Rayhan: So as someone who's worked in multiple regions, you What are the things that are different between one region and the other? what kind of advice can you give to entrepreneurs who are looking to set up in Saudi or they want to do some businesses and business in the UK, or even Australia? What kind of advice can you give to entrepreneurs from that point of view?

[00:41:10] Tanvir: Wow. Okay. Interesting. so I would say. Australia, and the UK quite similar, from a, sort of a cultural perspective and, I guess business maturity as well. the UAE in my view, and Saudi is now I think seeing this, from when I first arrived in 2008 to where we are today, there's been a sort of a massive, what I would say is it's almost, you, the culture from a business perspective is almost the same as, Australia, UK, US, that level matured a lot.

[00:41:55] Tanvir: It's matured a lot. and, I think Saudi is seeing that maturity. I think it's probably. A little bit behind the UAE or it is behind the UAE, you can see that they wanting to go along that same, trajectory. I guess the biggest difference there is the size of markets and, Saudi is a massive market.

[00:42:24] Tanvir: So massive opportunity there compared to the UAE. That's the only thing I'd say about the UAE. You're talking about a much, smaller market compared to UK, Australia, and even, Saudi. I think what's really interesting is with the introduction of corporate tax, right? So I've come from a market where tax is a part of everyday life.

[00:42:52] Tanvir: and tax, There was no tax here. So, often from a, business perspective, you didn't really need to worry about tax. Whereas in places like Australia and the UK tax was fundamental. So as part of business planning, you had to, so I think that there's another level of maturity there that the UAE is gonna, gonna see now.

[00:43:20] Tanvir: so I, yeah, I, don't know. I, don't think, I think, a lot of the skills and experiences that I've, Got from, Australia and the UK are the same and transferable and applicable here. and 

[00:43:39] Rayhan: would you say the work ethic in the UK, the same as Australia? 

[00:43:43] Tanvir: Yes. so again, work ethic is, interesting.

[00:43:49] Tanvir: And, I think that depends on, what industries you've worked in and, where you've worked. yeah, I think, Australia, UK, and even the UAE, I think, people work incredibly hard here in the UAE, and it, look, it depends on what you're defining as work ethic as well, right?

[00:44:18] Tanvir: so if that, is being interpreted as, people who work hard, have, a good entrepreneurial sort of, network, and. Allow entrepreneurs to flourish. I actually think the UAE is probably more advanced than say Australia and the UK. 

[00:44:43] Rayhan: Oh, wow. 

[00:44:44] Tanvir: so maybe that's changed over time and, more recent.

[00:44:49] Tanvir: but, whenever I go back to Australia and, UK, you often hear about people. they're just complaining about tax. All right. so it's an interesting phenomena. and people seem to be just working to pay tax. Yeah. and I think inflation and the recent sort of cost of living crisis in these markets doesn't help either.

[00:45:19] Tanvir: things become more expensive. Admittedly, Dubai is not cheap either. But I think that there just seems to be this, it's really. it's really interesting. There seems to have been this sort of flip or transition where I think, the UAE is seen to be more dynamic, more entrepreneurial than Australia or the UK.

[00:45:43] Tanvir: Wow. that's, I guess that's just my perception and, through anecdotal sort of evidence. I don't have any, science or research to back that up, but I don't know, that's, the sense I get. And, look, most of the people that, I'm working with are also from either the UK or the US or, Australia.

[00:46:14] Tanvir: So there's not much, so I would say 

[00:46:20] Rayhan: UAE is probably the best place to start a business. And 

[00:46:23] Tanvir: I think so at the moment, it's, land of opportunity. I think the only limiting factor. If I'm being completely ominous is the size of the market size, sort of plays against you, which then means, From a competitive landscape perspective, it's a little bit tougher as well.

[00:46:46] Tanvir: And you probably, you're probably best placed to comment on that too, because the way I see it, there's a dime a dozen accounting firms in this market. and if you ignore the top five and, that is second tier firms. There's a, a huge amount of accounting firms.

[00:47:05] Tanvir: Yeah. but they're servicing a small market. so that's the only, I think that's the only real challenge, 

[00:47:14] Rayhan: interestingly, with the UAE market, in the uua e market for accounting firms specifically anyway, if you compare the number of accountants to businesses in the UAE compared to the Uua, the uk actually less.

[00:47:26] Rayhan: Oh, wow. Yeah. Okay. Actually less. actually more opportunities for accounting firms here. especially as corporation tax coming in as well. Yep. I set up my accounting firm. I had the accounting firm in the UK, but we set up predominantly here, mainly because For me, it was a lot of competition in the UK, and to start it here, start from scratch, bring it here, I felt that there was more opportunities, for me.

[00:48:00] Rayhan: it was tough in the beginning, because we came, I came in 2016. So at that time there was a bit of a downturn in the market, but post VAT, post 2018, it just started picking up and it's been picking up quite well ever since. In my. industry with small businesses. But market size, it's, small in the sense that, you go to Saudi and your contractor, you can get, a 10, 20 million contract, right?

[00:48:34] Rayhan: Here that you don't hear of that as often. And I guess that's where the challenge is as well. I don't have experience with, of Australia, but UK, it's quite competitive to get those types of contracts. and things are changing a lot in the UK as well. there's, as you said, cost of living crisis, liquidity is not in the market as it used to be.

[00:49:05] Rayhan: I guess one of the main differences between here and the UK is you have a safety net in the UK. So if you are not able to, if your business fails, there are bankruptcy laws that allows you to restructure your debts, for example. and it's easier for small businesses to get loans if needed.

[00:49:31] Rayhan: but I think that's changing. I think in, the UAE, obviously they've brought in a new bankruptcy law. there are. Banks and institutions that are willing to, put money into the SME market. And I think it's a matter of time, and population keeps growing. if you're here for the long run and I think great, if you're here for a quick buck, yeah, the market for you, I don't think.

[00:49:53] Tanvir: No. And I think, and I guess the way around, especially in the accounting sense is, like you said, I think you've, got some very specific customer centric. and, I guess as, that's a key differentiator for your business. so yeah, so look what, while I've identified that as a, challenge, I think there's an opportunity there as well.

[00:50:23] Tanvir: And that opportunity is by differentiating, if you can differentiate yourself. The rest, any other business, I think you'll, succeed. 

[00:50:36] Rayhan: So Tanvir, you've been a solopreneur, at some point in your career as an entrepreneur. what would you say the pros and cons are of being a solopreneur?

[00:50:49] Rayhan: there are plenty of, listeners who are working for someone else at the moment, and they prefer to start set up their own business. there are some entrepreneurs who. They've got a team, pretty much like working on their own. so from your point of view, what would you say the pros and cons are, as a solopreneur?

[00:51:11] Tanvir: Yeah. So I think the pros, flexibility. Yep. I think that's probably the biggest sort of, it's, a bit of a lifestyle thing. It gives you that flexibility, to work, at your own pace, subject to your, client's requirements. whether you're working from home, whether you're working in an office.

[00:51:40] Tanvir: So I think flexibility is probably the biggest advantage, when it comes to, being a solopreneur. on the flip side, the con or the disadvantage is probably, you're limited by your own capacity. 

[00:51:58] Rayhan: Yeah. 

[00:52:01] Tanvir: if, you're gonna, take a typical day, your availability is seven hours a day, and you work five days a week, then that's what you're probably limited to.

[00:52:16] Tanvir: that you're. it's going to be difficult for you to, grow beyond that. Yeah. and I guess that's, the But the disadvantage, I think the other disadvantage goes back to what we were talking before around is that, sometimes businesses want brand name behind, the work that's being delivered, gives them that sense of security and assurance, et cetera, et cetera.

[00:52:45] Tanvir: Whereas when you're, when you're a one man band, it's, 

[00:52:50] Rayhan: I think that's changed now, especially with personal branding. I think, with the new generation of entrepreneurs coming up, I think that if you have a strong personal brand and you resonate with them on social media, I think that can transcend the brands of, a big four, for example.

[00:53:16] Rayhan: Yeah. But I guess if you're working with large organizations, then by default, they will go for the big four or the McKinsey's or the, the Baines and all of that because that's what their board wants. That's what they're going to get signed off from. Yeah. 

[00:53:35] Tanvir: Yeah. Good point. Absolutely. but I think again, I guess what then that does is you're limiting your sort of, the, market.

[00:53:48] Tanvir: Yeah. maybe that means you can only really work with a certain size of business, which is fine. And again, that's, that, that's fine, but then cost does come into play, right? So the, smaller you are, the, less, the lower the budget, et cetera. So it's and that's what tends to happen.

[00:54:15] Tanvir: I can give you a classic example is, you go and pitch some work. and then, a larger, more bigger firm with a bigger budget is willing to pay almost the same rate as what they're going to pay a big four or a big five for some individualized, specialized consulting.

[00:54:38] Tanvir: Whereas if you go to the smaller firm or the smaller business, they, even half that rate is going to maybe give them a bit of a rude shock. and I find that today, even today. So to give you as an example, I'm providing some, consulting or fractional CXO services to a reasonably big oil and gas business in, Abu Dhabi.

[00:55:07] Rayhan: Yep. 

[00:55:08] Tanvir: So they are quite, prepared to pay me a sort of a day rate that's equivalent to say, what? A senior consultant would get at 

[00:55:19] Rayhan: Pricewaterhouse 

[00:55:20] Tanvir: or, Ernst Young on the flip side. and in fact, using a referral that you gave me, then there's someone who is just looking to start from scratch.

[00:55:35] Tanvir: It's a startup business. they want to start their first yoga studio. But can't, pay the same. Yeah, So I guess the quick goes back to flexibility. Not both, not in terms of, the time that you spend, you've got to be flexible in terms of what you can charge as long as you're, as long as you've understood that, and yeah, it, works.

[00:56:04] Rayhan: I guess also one of the, if you're going to go down the route of being a solopreneur. And you want to have good work life balance, you don't want to work over the weekend, the value proposition has to increase, right? Which means that, there needs to be more work that you need to do as an individual to show the market your perceived value.

[00:56:29] Rayhan: so you can charge a higher fee as a result, or I guess you could always win the job and outsource right as a model as well. but, but yeah, 

[00:56:46] Tanvir: yeah, look, I think that like you say, there's pros and cons and I think as long as you're aware of what they are, then yes, being a solopreneur works, as well, but at the end of the day, you're just limited in terms of,

[00:57:06] Tanvir: So that's, the only thing that I would say. 

[00:57:10] Rayhan: Speaking of entrepreneurs, obviously you've been in entrepreneurship for a very, long time. very experienced entrepreneur yourself. Which entrepreneurs have you've got inspiration from? Who do you look up to? if there's any biography books, what, would you recommend?

[00:57:30] Tanvir: Yeah, 

[00:57:32] Rayhan: so I think, 

[00:57:34] Tanvir: so if I look at sort of the ones that are most recognisable by everyone, and, what I'm assuming most people know of them, I think one of them has to be Steve Jobs. I think what was so inspiring about Steve Jobs and what he did was I think when he took, the classic story, Apple was You know, struggling, before he took over as CEO again, and his, I guess the thing about Steven Jobs, Steve Jobs was that he, I think what he did was, Just made, the, simple, made the strategy very simple, and didn't complicate stuff and the way he could communicate, just, it's an inspirational story around, how he met, turned Apple around to what it is today.

[00:58:45] Tanvir: he, I think if, you look at what he did, he, Apple had so many products and services and they were trying to be everything to anyone. And he just came in and said, enough's enough. We're going to focus on the B2C market and the B2B market and these are the products, that we're going to use to, to satisfy those customers really simple and then just execute it on it.

[00:59:14] Tanvir: and this is 

[00:59:15] Rayhan: a C jobs 2.0, right? So his infamous kind of character was. More to do with the 1.0 when he first started 

[00:59:23] Tanvir: Apple. Exactly. so yeah, I'm, talking about Apple 2.0 then, yeah. Or Steve Jobs 2.0. So yeah, so look, he's definitely one that, inspires me and I've read his sort of, biography and books and all that type of stuff.

[00:59:39] Tanvir: The one written by Walter Isaacson. That's the one. Yeah. Yep. and then I guess the other one that sort of is quite inspiring. and you, again, a bit like Steve Jobs, you either love him or hate him, but it is Elon Musk. Yep. So he's, just one mindedness to disrupt the automotive industry.

[00:59:59] Tanvir: that's, quite inspiring. And I think. the EV automobile market is thanks to him. and he's really, again, just that sort of one mindedness to, to solve a problem. I haven't read his biography. I've bought the biography, but it's about this big. so that's one that's on my sort of reading list.

[01:00:27] Tanvir: But again, he's. He's someone that does, inspire, or has inspired me, and I think inspires many people. But if I bring it closer to home and look at, who have I worked with or for, during my career, I think I mentioned before when I worked at Standard Chartered, CEO at the time, Mervyn Davis, absolute he was a fantastic CEO.

[01:01:01] Tanvir: and just to give a bit of context, he took over standard chartered when the share price was three pounds. And within four years, it was 17 pounds. and a lot of that in my view is, he brought entrepreneurial spirit in a corporate environment, which is tough. 

[01:01:25] Rayhan: Yeah. 

[01:01:26] Tanvir: So especially in the bank, in a bank, in financial services, that's been around for over a hundred years, maybe even 150 years.

[01:01:38] Tanvir: and one of the courageous things he did and, this is, it goes back to hiring for attitude rather than skill. The CFO that he brought into his team was not a finance guy. He was a management consultant. Oh, wow. From McKinsey's. And he got a lot of heat, from the analysts. they, people were like, how could not hire.

[01:02:08] Tanvir: a finance guru. going back to hiring for attitude rather than skills or experience, this is a classic case of, that's what I learned is that, traditionally when you look at, job specs and job adverts, everyone wants the same experience. They're not willing to, think outside the box or, fish in a wider talent pool.

[01:02:38] Tanvir: so that's what I learned from Mervin is that, be courageous, you don't have to hire for experience that. So that was so he, he really inspired me. But the other thing about Mervin was he was a great communicator and let me just give you an example. Every Friday. He would leave a voice message on everyone's phone globally around what he did during a week.

[01:03:05] Tanvir: it was a short, five minutes, a maximum two, three, four, five minutes, you, listen to him and he just gave you a rundown of what he was doing. it was brilliant. Just, but yeah, but, he was just a great communicator and then I guess from a UAE perspective. I know that I'm not sure if you know of the coffee shop.

[01:03:31] Tanvir: They're called Boone. yeah, they're 

[01:03:33] Rayhan: in my building. Oh, are they?? Yeah. And I, I, go for the coffee every lunchtime. 

[01:03:40] Tanvir: Yeah. it's such an inspirational story because Arit, who is the founder of that business? Started that business really out of, just a love for, coffee.

[01:03:55] Tanvir: so of Ethiopian background and if you hear her story about how she started, it's just brilliant, so the Ethiopians love their coffee. and they make it in a particular way. and the way, Arit and, her husband Abdul have grown from literally that first, store in your building to now 10, retail shops across the UAE is really inspiring.

[01:04:25] Tanvir: wow. It's, just, the, an idea was bought to me, you. If you define what entrepreneurship is, it's about, that you've got an idea and that idea is going to turn into customers. And that's what they did. Orit had an idea and now she's turned them, that idea into loads of customers.

[01:04:45] Rayhan: Yeah. But the other thing I like what you said is that she loved She had right. Yeah. she loved coffee and from my experience of working with entrepreneurs, it's the ones that really love what they're doing. They really succeed. Yeah. Cause when the going gets tough, you want to pack it in a lot of the entrepreneurs anyway, or they lose love for the, for their business.

[01:05:11] Rayhan: But. You really have to love what you're doing to really see through the hard times. Yep. and I'm sure they've been through a lot of hard times as well. they're, thriving. You see a new chain pretty much all the time. great coffee as well. Yeah. Yeah. We're not getting sponsored, but we need to get sponsored.

[01:05:35] Rayhan: but yeah, no, you should get her on the podcast actually. Possibly. Yeah. Coming after you. So Tanvir, obviously we're wrapping up now. what's the best way that our listeners can reach out to you? and is there anything that you want to what's your final words for, the listeners at the moment?

[01:05:54] Tanvir: Yeah, look, in terms of getting in touch with me through you they can get it, get in touch with you and, you can give them, contact details, et cetera. Or just, get onto the LinkedIn and look me up and connect with me and we can get the ball rolling. but I think, yeah, that in terms of, words of wisdom, it's difficult, right?

[01:06:20] Tanvir: Because, entrepreneurs, like you say, they're in it for, the love. Usually, they do almost everything and anything to keep that business running. And sometimes I think that's a bit of a blind spot, right? So that often entrepreneurs don't recognize when they need that extra bit of support, or, help.

[01:06:46] Tanvir: So I think, That sort of acceptance that sometimes you can't do everything on your own, and you need a bit of, outside help, so, coaching, in my view, if you're a, if you're an elite athlete, they all have coaches, of course, and so I think entrepreneurs. they could be open to, coaching as well.

[01:07:11] Tanvir: So just getting different perspectives, so someone like me or, someone like yourself, we can bring a different perspective that maybe helps them grow 

[01:07:22] Rayhan: their business. I have, I think I have one coach, one mentor myself anyway, that I work with officially, and I think that's really helped my personal development.

[01:07:32] Rayhan: so a hundred percent resonate. I would always tell. an entrepreneur who, when we are the only sounding board for them as an accountant, I would always advise them, get a mentor or get a coach, someone who can really, someone who's been there done that, who can really help you in your business. And it makes a big difference for them as well.

[01:07:52] Tanvir: Yeah, absolutely. 

[01:07:54] Rayhan: Cool. Tanvir, thank you very much. Thanks for having me. Brilliant. Thank you. Thank you for joining us on the Alphapreneurs podcast. If you enjoyed the show, please subscribe and give us a five star rating and a review. For show notes and more, click on the link in the description.

[01:08:11] Rayhan: Connect with me directly on LinkedIn and search for Rayhan Aleem. See you soon.