Alphapreneurs

EP#3-Leaving a UK Tech Giant to Relocate & Build a Business in Dubai | Featuring Ayman Kaouri

• Rayhan Aleem • Season 1 • Episode 3

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Join us for the latest episode of #Alphapreneurs, where host Rayhan Aleem chats with Ayman Kaouri, the Co-Founder & Regional Director of Scope Solutions in the Middle East.

Ayman takes us through his thought process prior to relocating to the Middle East, risking what he had already achieved in the UK, to pursue a lifelong entrepreneurial ambition in Dubai of becoming a self made entrepreneur and establishing his own company.

He also talks about Scope’s mission and strategies to stand out in an emerging market while offering in-depth insights into how social media has helped him reach numerous prospects and maintain communication channels with professionals and entrepreneurs from across the region.

👉 Follow Ayman Kaouri on LinkedIn: https://bit.ly/3XZz0Up
👉 Website: https://www.scopesolutions.me
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Key Takeaways:

0:00   Intro
1:25  Moving to Dubai
10:10 Scope’s mission
11:58 Role of technology in business growth
15:17 Predicting the Future of AI
20:14 Risking Career Stability
27:11 Reflections on Employee Life
30:12 First Win As an Entrepreneur
35:42 Catering to Accounting Firms
44:32 The Gap between Dubai and the UK Market
52:48 Learnings/Tips
54:52 LinkedIn for Personal Branding
1:02:05 Final thoughts & closing remarks 
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𝗪𝗵𝗼 𝗔𝗺 𝗜?

My name is  Rayhan Aleem, Founder and CEO of 𝗧𝗮𝘅 𝗦𝘁𝗮𝗿 and 𝗔𝗹𝗽𝗵𝗮 𝗣𝗿𝗼 𝗣𝗮𝗿𝘁𝗻𝗲𝗿𝘀. At  𝗔𝗹𝗽𝗵𝗮𝗽𝗿𝗲𝗻𝗲𝘂𝗿𝘀 podcast I sit with top industry leaders for in-depth conversations that dive deep into their success stories, market dynamics, and firsthand tips on entrepreneurship and profitability. Whether you're just starting out or already running your own business, 𝗔𝗹𝗽𝗵𝗮𝗽𝗿𝗲𝗻𝗲𝘂𝗿𝘀 offers something valuable for everyone.

👉 Follow 𝗥𝗮𝘆𝗵𝗮𝗻 𝗔𝗹𝗲𝗲𝗺 on LinkedIn: https://bit.ly/3U2niHn
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𝗦𝗽𝗼𝗻𝘀𝗼𝗿𝘀:

𝟭-𝗔𝗹𝗽𝗵𝗮 𝗣𝗿𝗼 𝗣𝗮𝗿𝘁𝗻𝗲𝗿𝘀:
  -𝗪𝗲𝗯𝘀𝗶𝘁𝗲:  https://www.alphapartners.co
  -𝗟𝗶𝗻𝗸𝗲𝗱𝗜𝗻: https://bit.ly/3Yf4VRZ

𝟮-𝗧𝗮𝘅 𝗦𝘁𝗮𝗿:
  -𝗪𝗲𝗯𝘀𝗶𝘁𝗲:  https://www.taxstar.app
  -𝗟𝗶𝗻𝗸𝗲𝗱𝗜𝗻: https://bit.ly/3ZVjzPD
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𝗟𝗶𝘀𝘁𝗲𝗻 𝗼𝗻:

🔗 𝗬𝗼𝘂𝘁𝘂𝗯𝗲: https://bit.ly/47gaW3F
🔗 𝗦𝗽𝗼𝘁𝗶𝗳𝘆: https://bit.ly/3ZbtGiR
🔗 𝗔𝗽𝗽𝗹𝗲 𝗣𝗼𝗱𝗰𝗮𝘀𝘁: https://bit.ly/4dOfS2f
🔗 𝗔𝗻𝗴𝗵𝗮𝗺𝗶: https://bit.ly/3Mutunk
🔗 𝗔𝗻𝗱 𝗠𝗮𝗻𝘆 𝗺𝗼𝗿𝗲!: https://bit.ly/3XfGYbD

𝗘𝗻𝗷𝗼𝘆𝗲𝗱 𝘁𝗵𝗲 𝗲𝗽𝗶𝘀𝗼𝗱𝗲? 𝗦𝘂𝗯𝘀𝗰𝗿𝗶𝗯𝗲 𝘁𝗼 𝗔𝗹𝗽𝗵𝗮𝗽𝗿𝗲𝗻𝗲𝘂𝗿𝘀 𝗼𝗻 𝘆𝗼𝘂𝗿 𝗳𝗮𝘃𝗼𝗿𝗶𝘁𝗲 𝗽𝗹𝗮𝘁𝗳𝗼𝗿𝗺 𝗮𝗻𝗱 𝗹𝗲𝗮𝘃𝗲 𝗮 𝗿𝗲𝘃𝗶𝗲𝘄 𝘁𝗼 𝗵𝗲𝗹𝗽 𝘂𝘀 𝗿𝗲𝗮𝗰𝗵 𝗺𝗼𝗿𝗲 𝗹𝗶𝘀𝘁𝗲𝗻𝗲𝗿𝘀!

𝗦𝗲𝗲 𝘆𝗼𝘂 𝘀𝗼𝗼𝗻!

[00:00:00] Ayman: Often they are thought to be fantastic accountants. What they're not necessarily taught is, this is how you can present. This is, these are like the soft skills that you will need to be a successful business person. Eventually, most businesses will come on board. we've seen it happen. It takes, it's a process that will take years.

[00:00:19] Ayman: But anyone that is an early mover will get a real 

[00:00:23] Ayman: head start in the, race. And the reason why we've, we're focusing primarily on accounting firms today in, the UAE, is because we think if we can get in with them, actually, they've got access to clients that they know will have certain needs. So we're, almost able to make a positive impact on more firms, more businesses that way.

[00:00:45] Rayhan: Welocme to the Alphapreneurs podcast. I'm your host, Rayhan Aleem, Founder of Tax Star and Alfa Pro Partners. Join me on each episode as we talk to inspiring entrepreneurs who share their stories, challenges, and secrets on building world class businesses.  I've known Ayman since his days at Xero. He was instrumental in bringing Xero to the GCC and ever since our days at Xero, I've been friends with him ever since.

[00:01:16] Rayhan: 12 months ago, he moved his family to Dubai to set up his business called Scope Middle East. He's also very active on LinkedIn. Thank you very much for joining us in today's show. I'm going to go straight into it. I know you're someone who's made a big risk. You've set up your own business. You've moved to another country.

[00:01:36] Rayhan: You've moved to Dubai. This was around 12 months ago. Yeah. tell us about your experience. Tell us about why did you choose Dubai? why did you choose to move your family and yourself? From the UK, which is relatively stable to an emerging market like Dubai. 

[00:01:53] Ayman: Yeah, great question, man. And to be honest, it's something that had been on my mind quite a while.

[00:02:00] Ayman: My wife and I had been watching YouTube videos all the time about what life in Dubai was like and all this kind of thing for the last, the 12 months, probably prior to making the move. Yep. I think our plan was to. Do it in a couple of years. 

[00:02:15] Rayhan: Yep. 

[00:02:15] Ayman: And so two years later then we actually did it, but circumstances changed and Hey, let's hit fast forward in our plans.

[00:02:23] Ayman: And what was it that attracted us? probably, I think every time I'd come here. So I'd been here various times over the last decade. Yeah. Either for work or just for, pleasure. And you was 

[00:02:33] Rayhan: here quite, you, your, father had a job here once, right? 

[00:02:36] Ayman: Yeah, so we actually. So funnily enough, it was a, return to the UAE as opposed to us coming here for the first time.

[00:02:44] Ayman: So we moved here in the early nineties to Sharjah. And that was a completely different place, as you can imagine. Early nineties, Dubai wasn't what it is today. The UAE as a whole wasn't what it was today, what it is today. But yeah, we, had an experience. We stayed there for a couple of years at the time.

[00:03:02] Ayman: We ended up moving to England afterwards and had, I'd been there since. I'd visited the UAE various times across the years. And every time I came here, it's Oh man, this is, a cool place. But then I'd always contrasted it with life back home in the UK and at the time I was like, we've got things good here.

[00:03:22] Ayman: I was really enjoying my life in the UK. I would say for some reason over the last five or six years or so, I just found things in the UK weren't quite how I'd remembered them growing up. So yeah, it wasn't as positive a place to be either for personal life or business wise. I just didn't feel a positive buzz around the place.

[00:03:44] Ayman: Listen to the news. It was always just like negativity. And whenever I'd come here and I know it's different visiting, but whenever I'd come here, I'd just get this overwhelming sense of positivity. And being me, I'm quite a positive thinker. I'd say in general, I like to look at, the silver lining.

[00:04:04] Ayman: I'd like to look at what the opportunities are as opposed to the risks. and I just felt like Dubai had aligned with me in that respect. 

[00:04:12] Rayhan: Yeah. There's a lot of positive energy that can, help you be inspirational and help you pull through when times are difficult as well. A hundred 

[00:04:21] Ayman: percent. Yeah.

[00:04:21] Ayman: Like I, nothing gets me down more than being around negative energy. When I'm in the room and someone else is just always talking down, or even if I've got like comments on my LinkedIn and we'll get into that, sometimes you get comments, which are just like a bit negative. And you're just like, man, look at the positive side.

[00:04:38] Ayman: I like to always look at the positive. Yes, negativity also exists and there's always a negative side to things. Dwelling on that, where does that get you? I'm action oriented. So I want to think about, what's the best compromise? What's the best place for me to be? What's going to give me the best environment?

[00:04:59] Ayman: Could not necessarily the lesser of two evils that sometimes comes into play, Yeah, but. On balance, where makes sense for me to be and Dubai felt like the right place, not only from a, business angle, but also personally, my background is both Western and Eastern. I'm born in the UK, but to Lebanese parents.

[00:05:22] Ayman: So that cross between East meets West, Arab meets Western, I think really works well in the region here. 

[00:05:30] Rayhan: Yeah. No, from in, if I look at, think about my own experience, I came here 2016. I literally, I came straight after Brexit, to be honest. And for me, it's not, there's lots of positives and certain things are not the way you, would think it would be.

[00:05:50] Rayhan: Moving here was very easy. as soon as you've got your visa, you can get tenancy agreement, phone bill, get a car. I think there's a lot of, I have a lot of friends and family out here and that helps as well. it's a very safe city as well. and right now Dubai's booming, there's loads of people coming in all the time.

[00:06:12] Rayhan: Loads of, entrepreneurs coming in and setting up businesses. And I think right now we have a golden opportunity, where we're at. So we're actually quite blessed to be here. Tell me more about how did you, how are you able to integrate your family into I know you mentioned that, they, you wanted, it was a collective decision, not just you wanting to come here.

[00:06:36] Rayhan: how was it, how did you have any challenges? How'd you overcome, how'd you overcome them? tell me more, about that. 

[00:06:42] Ayman: Yeah. So my wife had only visited Dubai once before and she was only here for three days or so, even in that short period of time. You've got a really good sense about the place and maybe it's because, she grew up in Lebanon maybe having that again, mixture of East, East meets West and made sense for her as well.

[00:07:01] Ayman: And it made her feel a bit more comfortable. We're also, Muslim. So being in a, in an Islamic country, but also one that allows people to be whoever they are without being discriminated against was really a positive aspect and something that. Warm, towards us in terms of setting the family.

[00:07:20] Ayman: And so what I did was I actually came here first. So I moved after making the decision to move within two months. I had moved myself. 

[00:07:27] Rayhan: Yep. 

[00:07:29] Ayman: Then I stayed here for a period of three months and getting the lay of the land work, getting all the administrative stuff, ready, understanding what I needed to do to make my family comfortable here.

[00:07:40] Ayman: Yep. So I lived in like a apartment hotel for the first three months of my time here. I didn't have a long commitment or anything like that. I got to figure out, got to get to know the areas, got to drive around and meet the different schools and this kind of thing, all the considerations you have as a, family person.

[00:07:59] Ayman: And then that enabled me to really work out, okay, this is the, this is what we can try. So we ended up getting a house in, which is not too far from the schools. Okay. And, yeah, I managed to bring the family into an environment which was a little bit more stable. I was able to line the things up in advance and I had the luxury of being able to do that.

[00:08:21] Ayman: But that definitely helped big time because I wasn't coming here with two relatively young kids and them having to figure it out on the spot. It took the pressure off a little bit that my wife and the kids were able to spend time back in the UK and then subsequently in Lebanon. And I knew that they had family nearby looking after them, made sure that they're okay.

[00:08:41] Ayman: And then I was able to have a bit more freedom over here to not only get the business going, but get life set up here for the move. But there was different elements to it, but having that time up front for myself and I'd recommend anyone. Making a similar move. If you've got the luxury of being able to do that, it definitely helps just relieve some of the pressure of having to work things out whilst also looking after the family at the same time.

[00:09:04] Rayhan: Yeah. No, a hundred percent. I think as an entrepreneur juggling so many things, there's so many pressures, those emails to respond to, you need to bring cashflow. and one of the things you need to do as an entrepreneur is you need to have a stable base. If you don't have a solid base. with all of the different conflicting priorities that are happening, you can't function as an entrepreneur.

[00:09:26] Rayhan: I think what you've done is, quite admirable, super proud of what you've done. So thanks for sharing that. 

[00:09:32] Ayman: Thank you. I know it's been an experience, a learning experience, but I'm the kind of guy that I'm not very risk averse. So I'll just throw myself into things and hey, what's the worst that can happen?

[00:09:42] Ayman: And yeah, fortunately it's, worked out on this occasion. 

[00:09:46] Rayhan: So you're here 12 months, fast forward, you've set up your own business. your business partners are from motor, company called scope, and you founded scope Middle East. I knew a little bit about scope. previously I knew that they were quite big in motor and they're quite a big reseller.

[00:10:09] Rayhan: but tell me more about scope. Tell me about what, is your mission out here? I know they're doing great things in motor, and in other regions as well. What is it that you want? If there was a one mission, what would it be for scope? And, how, what are the things you want to how would you do the things that you need to do to fulfill that mission?

[00:10:30] Ayman: Yeah, great question. overall, what we're trying to do Is make sure businesses are empowered by technology so that the people can do their best work, right? That's the, key thing. It's not replacing people with technology. It's making sure that people plus tech equals a better outcome than what they've currently got.

[00:10:59] Ayman: That's the overall mission. So it's about ensuring businesses can become more efficient. Ensuring that they can become more profitable, helping them feel like their work isn't this mundane, repeatable thing that doesn't give them satisfaction. Make them feel that actually they can focus on the bits of their business that are really going to add value to whoever their clients are.

[00:11:26] Ayman: Now incidentally, we happen to start with accounting firms and it's, intentional. It's not because the only solutions we have are accounting solutions. We actually go into all sorts of different industries and can help businesses in all shapes and sizes. 

[00:11:40] Rayhan: no, a hundred percent. You're the solutions that some of the things that you, that we've spoken about anyway, it can affect loads of even big businesses, small businesses, medium sized businesses as well, and very, useful.

[00:11:52] Rayhan: And a lot of entrepreneurs don't know about some of these solutions that are available. 

[00:11:56] Ayman: Yeah, for sure. So one thing we recognize is that. There's a lot of choice out there in terms of the number of apps that are being created and developed, and it's a great problem to have, an abundance of choice.

[00:12:10] Ayman: The issue is, if you're an SME or if you're an accounting firm, how do you demystify that whole app marketplace that exists? You're focused on doing your work, right? Very few will build out a team that's going to be a tech team that will, Keep researching all these apps and constantly working out what's the best one and how does it fit?

[00:12:39] Ayman: how is it going to talk to my other systems and how is the workflow going to look though? We're all about Reducing the amount of work that you guys have to do as accounting firms as SMEs Around the decisions that are to do with technology. We want to make sure that we can match what your needs are with the best of breed software that's out there.

[00:13:05] Ayman: So we're taking away that, that research phase from you. Let's say we've done the, so we will research the thousands of apps. We will try out hundreds of them and then we'll choose to partner. With the right apps that we think will really add value to a number of different businesses. Yep. And there's a number that we do.

[00:13:25] Ayman: So what we don't necessarily do is produce our own software and just sell our own solutions. We are all about finding the best of breed out there. We will match it to the accounting firms, but also to their clients. and the reason why we've, we're focusing primarily on accounting firms today in the UAE is because we think if we can get in with them, Actually, they've got access to clients that they know will have certain needs.

[00:13:49] Ayman: So we're almost able to make a positive impact on more firms, more businesses that way. Eventually, what happened in Malta was that it worked both ways. So although we could proactively be going after an accounting firm, we started to get referrals or direct business coming in from SMEs directly.

[00:14:07] Ayman: And we get that to some extent here as well. But in terms of my efforts at the moment, I'm, while the team is relatively lean over here, it's to go out there, meet more accounting firm owners, try and educate them on the benefits that software can bring, look at not only replacing the way you're working today with the same way, but with different software, but actually how can we change the workflow from a manual, repetitive, inefficient one to a digital workflow where you can just, let's say for argument's sake, create your customer record once and it talked, it's synced across all of the systems that you're using rather than having to create it in this system and create it in that system.

[00:14:52] Ayman: And then eventually someone changes it here and not there and they go out of sync, right? Very common problem. We're all about creating efficiencies throughout your workflows that will look to find. What are the main pain points that you've got and incrementally try and make them better one system at a time or one module at a time or however it makes sense for your business?

[00:15:16] Rayhan: Yeah, no. and obviously the role of AI is, coming, is, revolutionary at the moment. for me, you've got generative AI and you've got real AI or machine learning. we're going to talk about what you think is coming in terms of the future. how you think business will be disrupted.

[00:15:38] Rayhan: what new things have you seen that we should be excited about? 

[00:15:42] Ayman: Yeah, it's, been a really fascinating space AI actually, because I think in such a short period of time, it's just blown out of proportions completely. And it's been like real kind of revolutionary moment in some respects, almost like the impact that the internet had when it came out, And I would say initially people were like super excited about it. Some people would be very scared about. The potential impact and rightly we need to tread carefully, but the opportunities are huge. today I think there has been overuse of AI in some contexts, for example, on, on LinkedIn, on social media, the amount of posts that I just take and copied and pasted from chat GPT into LinkedIn, I can now tell them a mile off and they're less engaging.

[00:16:33] Ayman: The AI hasn't quite got good enough. have the authenticity of a human just yet. It will probably get there in all honesty. Cause how these things work is they, are learning all the time, from other content that's out there. So it's going to get better and better. Now, I think in terms of the short to medium term, what might concern you or make you want to take action is, are you doing something that AI can quickly replace, manual, repetitive jobs.

[00:17:07] Ayman: not as a manual labor, but like repetitive work that you have to do like data entry, for example, is a really good example. and that's where we always talk about OCR and the importance of using the tech there as opposed to having someone typing things up for you manually, the AI now can do that more accurately, faster and cheaper than any human being.

[00:17:31] Ayman: So that's a no brainer. If I was doing a job that can be easily replaced by AI, I'd be thinking about. Let me learn some new skills. What can I learn that takes maybe relationship building or ingenuity or creativity? Those are the kind of things. I saw something recently that creativity is one of the most sought after skills now when you're looking for a new hire.

[00:17:56] Ayman: creative person, because that's an area that the AI isn't quite as good at. There's certain things that it does really well. But I would say overall, it's looking to move. Into this kind of advisory space a little bit more so where it can start pulling out insights and provide nuggets of advice, the issue, and I, heard this again recently that it's not AI, that is the threat to you and your job.

[00:18:25] Ayman: It's not going to replace humans, but the most effective people and businesses going forward are those that have humans that are able to use the AI. Yeah, it's that combination. That is going to be so crucial. and that's where the money's to be made and the opportunities are to be taken advantage of.

[00:18:45] Ayman: If you can learn to effect, make effective use of artificial intelligence, then you're going to have a significant advantage in the market. Just having a surface level knowledge probably isn't enough, really actively seeking out experts that can give you advice on how best to use it, man, you can save yourselves heaps of time, at least now so that you can really get ahead of your competitors or in the market or become a thought leader.

[00:19:16] Rayhan: Yeah. 

[00:19:17] Ayman: So I think, it's a really exciting space. in terms of the possibilities, they, are endless at the moment. I honestly don't know what the next big thing will be, but what I do know is that we fast forward five years from now, the world of work will be completely different to what we know it today.

[00:19:37] Ayman: Yeah. That we'll be seeing an emergence of a whole new set of roles. I'd be very surprised if people didn't have experts in the use of AI within their teams across the business. People like, was it prompt engineers, new jobs that didn't exist, like, these are just brand new things, but the actually, that's such an important thing to be able to have that within your, either within your own skillset or within the team to tap into those kinds of resources, because.

[00:20:06] Ayman: If you don't, someone else will, and you will lose out, frankly. 

[00:20:10] Rayhan: Yeah, 

[00:20:11] Rayhan: no, 100 percent agree with that. you used to work for Xero, one of the largest fintech players globally. 4 million users worldwide, heading up EMEA. Why leave your stable job, move to another country to become an entrepreneur? Yeah 

[00:20:31] Ayman: man, yeah, good question.

[00:20:32] Ayman: And being an employee is something I've always been. So this was the first move into entrepreneurship. Yeah. having said that, I'd like to think I've always been like a mini entrepreneur within every organization I've worked in. 

[00:20:46] Rayhan: Yep. 

[00:20:47] Ayman: So that's it. Like I take a role, right? I wouldn't, I never just accepted the defines of the role.

[00:20:55] Ayman: I'd always want to do the role as best as I could so that there was never any excuses when I want to look at doing other things outside of it to push the boundaries, to prove that I can do more, but also to further the organization. I was always. I've really bought in to what we want to do as a business from my very first job to my last one and Part of that for me was I need to keep pushing this business forward.

[00:21:24] Ayman: I'm a part of this system. I'm not just here to pick up my paycheck. It's more than that. So I've always been a bit of an entrepreneur within every role I've done. Pushing the boundaries, suggesting new ways, challenging things, wanting to do more and more. Wanting to challenge myself, but also want to challenge the business in the way that we've done things.

[00:21:44] Ayman: In fact, when I was at Xero, I managed to actually pitch that new role. It wasn't a role that existed. So I'd spotted an opportunity, within Xero, within the market, whereby in emerging markets throughout EMEA, we weren't necessarily being as proactive. So we were leaving growth on the table, emerging markets like the UAE, like the Republic of Ireland and lots of other places other than the UK and South Africa in EMEA, Xero doesn't have an on the ground presence.

[00:22:16] Ayman: So I thought, we must be leaving a lot on the table in these markets. So I actually pitched it to the chief customer officer at the time and said, look, I think we need to do X, Y, and Z. 

[00:22:27] Rayhan: She's 

[00:22:27] Ayman: in he or she's in New Zealand, Australia, So I, just messaged her on, we were using Slack as our internal messenger.

[00:22:34] Ayman: I messaged her on Slack and said, Hey, I've got this idea. I'd like to put it past you. I think you'll, help us. And she was like, yeah, absolutely. So she was very open to it. We had a chat and I didn't have a prior relationship personally or business wise with, this person. Don't ask, you don't get, it's my mantra.

[00:22:54] Ayman: I'm not shy. I'll just put myself out there and. The worst thing they can do is say no. And you end up in the position you're already in. It's not going to exactly knock you back. So I asked the question, presented my thoughts and from there on it snowballed and they loved the idea. We've got a new MD in Alex von Schoenmeister took over from Gary Turner.

[00:23:15] Ayman: within a month, we met him and put the idea to him about what I want to do and vision, and he was bought into it as well. So I actually had this whole entrepreneurial spirit. I created. This brand new team. And we went from there really to start building something. and so essentially I had my own little kind of skunk works business within zero whereby yes, we had a, like a budget allocated to us, but I was given relatively free reign to do what I needed.

[00:23:48] Ayman: No one was breathing down my neck about, you've got to do this, and this, it's just, this is your own kind of baby run with it and do what you need to do. So I had that. I think a part of me has always been entrepreneurial, 

[00:24:00] Rayhan: so 

[00:24:00] Ayman: that translated well, but I've always had this kind of, desire of wanting to have my own.

[00:24:07] Ayman: So when I had the opportunity to do that, man, I jumped at it. 

[00:24:11] Rayhan: Yeah, 

[00:24:11] Ayman: no, 

[00:24:11] Ayman: that's 

[00:24:12] Rayhan: a really good, inspiring story. Did you ever have a side hustle or have you always been working as an entrepreneur? as a, as an employee prior to coming out here, 

[00:24:22] Ayman: not as an adult when I was a kid, so at school, I always had little side hustles, whether it was.

[00:24:29] Ayman: Buying things I shouldn't abroad and selling it out of my school locker or downloading videos, movies, Albums and selling them out of my locker at school, putting them, burning them onto CDs and stuff. I used to do that. That was my little side hustle. Then I got into, I used to work for mobile phone shops as well.

[00:24:48] Ayman: Yeah. As a kid, like part time when I was at school and stuff. So one thing that I did was work out actually that there was Certain phones where you can really make a decent margin on. Phones used to, in the UK, you'd get mobile phones that were locked to a particular network. Yeah. So I figured, me and my mate actually figured out a way to unlock the phones from the network so that we can use any SIM in it, and then we would resell it.

[00:25:11] Ayman: So we'd go around the shops at the time. We'd only let you buy two each. So we'd literally drive around the mobile phone shops in Milton Keynes. Buying two phones each, we'd, unlock them and we'd stick them on eBay and sell them for a profit, sometimes significant profit. Nice. So yeah, I was always had that little entrepreneurial spirit, but no, during my working career, I'd never had a side hustle.

[00:25:33] Ayman: I'd always had like little ideas, but never had that one that really clicked. 

[00:25:38] Rayhan: Yeah. No, I meet entrepreneurs all the time. And usually what the journey is, they have a side hustle, and they're working on it for two, three years, one year, six months, and then they make a break breakthrough and then they're able to leave their full time job, and then start their own, business.

[00:25:58] Rayhan: the fact that you didn't do that, you, started from scratch, very commendable. 

[00:26:02] Ayman: Yeah, I have to say, it's not, I had a safety net of some kind insofar as I've gone into partnership. So yes, it's my own business here in the UAE and I've got a couple of partners, but they've been doing this in another market over in Malta.

[00:26:17] Ayman: So Scope has existed in Malta for the last 12 years or so. Yep. So that safety net definitely played a part. we had a playbook that worked, but yeah, we're building the market from here from scratch. Yeah. it's a completely different landscape and, all the work that they've done building up the Maltese market doesn't necessarily translate here.

[00:26:41] Ayman: Of course. So yeah, there's a risk involved, going from employee to entrepreneur, having to build this thing back yourself, there's pressure on your shoulders and all this and then you've got a family, business partners that are also invested to please. Yep. Hey, I like those kinds of challenges.

[00:27:00] Ayman: As I said, I'm a. Kind of glass half full kind of guy, but I'll look at that and say, Hey, I could do that. 

[00:27:08] Rayhan: Nice. I, one of the things I remember, or one of the things I miss of being an employee, was, we had colleagues, you had a lot of, managers and directors as mentors, one of the things I used to hate was the politics, obviously in the workplace.

[00:27:27] Rayhan: I used to hate having to go on the tube every morning, waiting on the platform, for, for the train. You're literally on the edge cause it's always full in London. Yeah. and then going to bank and it's just full of people. That's where I went. and then coming home sometimes at six, seven, eight, nine, 10.

[00:27:49] Rayhan: so I never missed the commute. but I did miss the people. I used to do a lot of. Contracting. So I wasn't really an employee. I was more of a, contractor for the companies I worked for in the latter stage of my career. Yeah. but is there anything that you, miss on as being an employee?

[00:28:10] Rayhan: something that you, really liked and, if you could go back, you'd always, that was, would resonate with you. 

[00:28:18] Ayman: Yeah. Like you, I like being around people. So building a new team in a new market means you're naturally starting with just yourself. So I don't currently have.

[00:28:29] Ayman: A big team that I'm going into every day, most of the scope teams over in Malta, not here physically. Yeah. So yes, we have great connections online and technology is getting better in that regard, but it's, not a replacement for coming into an office, getting that sense of team building, the, small interactions that you have normally, if you're doing online calls, the small talk is kept to a minimum.

[00:28:58] Ayman: Yeah. Or the human connection isn't quite there. You'll probably talk about a couple of little things here and there. But it never really gets deep. When you're in person, in an office environment, you'll have chance encounters with people that maybe you don't ordinarily work with. Or maybe you have more time around people that's different.

[00:29:15] Ayman: It was beyond the scope of a particular meeting, so I miss those interactions, but I see not having that today as a sacrifice or having that again in the future when we are successful and build this thing up, which I know it will be. so yeah, I think that's probably the main thing that I miss.

[00:29:38] Ayman: I don't miss. being necessarily accountable to a, line manager, I quite like having the freedom that I've got today. I like having the freedom of you not having to worry about a morning commute. I personally don't book meetings in before 11. Unless I absolutely have to, so it's the exception as opposed to the rule.

[00:29:59] Ayman: Yeah. I've got plenty of admin to do that I can do first thing. I don't have to get caught up in traffic. It's the last thing I want to do. It's a waste of my time. It's a waste of everyone's time. Yeah. And I'd have the same attitude towards my employees. I've got someone who's going to be joining me soon.

[00:30:14] Ayman: So we'll have employee number one over here. Congratulations. Yeah, no, it's a big step for us. but I need to, I've taken my time with it. I needed to make sure that we got the right person because. Yeah. Yeah. Naturally, at this stage of the business, I need to say fair hands that I can trust to free me up so that I can do the more strategic things that need to be done as opposed to getting caught in the weeds because you wear so many different hats.

[00:30:36] Ayman: Yeah. But eventually you can become a bottleneck in your own business. 

[00:30:40] Rayhan: no. It's very smart. you have a lot of entrepreneurs here. What they would do is they would hire juniors. which means they can't free up the time, which means they have to then micromanage, check what they're doing, because they're cheaper, right?

[00:30:53] Rayhan: But the fact that you've taken your time, you've, hired someone who's at a high skilled level, that shows that, you've got a plan in place, in terms of growing your business and make sure you have, you're doing the right way, basically. Yeah, that's, 

[00:31:07] Ayman: I'd like to, I'm a really, I'm not a short term thinker in general, So I won't make rash decisions.

[00:31:12] Ayman: Yeah. I'll make, I'm decisive, but I'm not rash, so I won't think, oh, I won't panic about things and say, oh no, I have to get someone in. It doesn't matter who they are. No, I think that kind of ends up biting you on the backside if you, do that too often. I'd like to think I will get the right person in so that I can really build for the long term.

[00:31:33] Ayman: We're here, not just to make a quick buck, we're here. They have a successful business that's scalable over the years. And that was an important element for it to get the right person in. That's not going to take too much energy from me. 

[00:31:44] Rayhan: Yeah, no, a hundred percent, congratulations and hopefully it works out.

[00:31:49] Rayhan: And hopefully we can bring, is it Fahim? Fahim, yeah. So hopefully we can bring him to another episode at some point. Yeah, I'm sure. I'm sure he'll be pleased with that. But tell us about your first win as an entrepreneur. Obviously you moved from being an employee to an entrepreneur. What was the first thing that you thought I did that I made it?

[00:32:07] Rayhan: I mean for me when I set up my business, it was literally getting the first money into my bank account into my UAE bank account When I was able to sell some consulting services back in 2017 It wasn't a lot It was a few thousand dirhams But for me, that was a win because I had money coming in, not money going out.

[00:32:33] Ayman: Yeah. it's a good question. Mine probably isn't money. So I know that's often what people say is it's getting that first deal done. And although that was an important milestone. As I said, I like, I think I'm, thinking of the big picture always. And for me, I could have got some quick business in through the door and yes, that relieves some of that initial pressure that you might have, but I'm, thinking of the longterm.

[00:32:56] Ayman: And the thing that I would say has been the most significant for me in terms of giving the business a platform is probably. The personal brand stuff that I've done, being able to, within the space of a year, it took less than that in reality, but within the space of a year, almost become like a domain expert, across LinkedIn is my kind of medium of choice, but I often now will get people if I'm out at an event and it's so random, just like if I'm out at an event, almost always someone will come up to me and say, Oh, I follow you on LinkedIn, which is a good achievement in the space of a year, because And they tend to be within my target market as well, which is actually quite handy.

[00:33:33] Ayman: So I haven't gone for this kind of quick and dirty approach of just like buying loads of followers or doing any of those tactics. They exist. My, my plan was I want to engage and connect with the right people. So I've managed to curate a decent following. It's not like superstar status. I'm not going to be getting like a blue tick or anything anytime soon.

[00:33:56] Ayman: Or if whatever the equivalent is on LinkedIn. But I've curated a decent network, I think, in a short period of time. Also established myself as a domain expert in like the accounting tech space. I'll get people referring me people that I've never met before refer people to me, which is a good sign.

[00:34:15] Ayman: So for me having that platform and establishing that platform is my biggest Win and probably the first real significant win I'd say for the business, other than obviously bringing money in through the door, which has been happening fortunately. but yeah, that's the, biggest significant step I would say.

[00:34:31] Ayman: So I'm proud of that. Yeah. 

[00:34:32] Rayhan: I guess I'm an accountant. That's why money means a lot to me. My credits and my debits needs to, balance. Otherwise I can't function. 

[00:34:43] Ayman: I totally get that. And actually cashflow can be a problem. fortunately. I've got understanding business partners. Yep. the three of us are invested for the longterm.

[00:34:53] Ayman: We're not after just quick financial gain. No one would turn away, obviously the opportunity to bring in some cash early. That's not, I'm not saying that at all. It's important in our business plan. We didn't plan for it to be a very quick turnaround in terms of profitability. So we understood that there needed to be investment upfront or longterm gain.

[00:35:21] Ayman: And being on the ground here, we learned more about the state of the market. so that when we realized actually even more investment is needed than we thought. So yeah, I think we're, a patient bunch. And for me, establishing that platform far outweighs any commercial gain we've made during that time.

[00:35:41] Rayhan: So you've worked with many accounting firm, firm owners in your days at Xero and now your days at Scope. they are your primary kind of, Customers, partners in what you're doing now, how do they differ from other human beings? And I won't get offended. Don't worry. 

[00:36:02] Ayman: That's a good question, actually. And first thing, first of all, they are humans and they're all individuals as well.

[00:36:08] Ayman: So like we can talk in general, but there's always going to be outliers. In general, I would say I've really enjoyed getting to know the accounting community. I actually also have really learned to admire what they do. mainly because before I'd worked at Xero, I, wasn't as close to this space at all, and I learned from working with accounting firms that they are actually just so important to the economy in general and to the small businesses.

[00:36:40] Ayman: So I'd heard lots of stories from SMEs that had, their accountant was actually their most valuable advisor. If they were unsure about something, they'd go to their accountant, they'd give them the security, almost like their safety blanket right in business, because most small businesses don't go into business for the accounting side of it.

[00:37:05] Ayman: But it's a source of stress for them almost in many ways, am I going to have good cash flow? is the business going to grow the way we need it to? How do I minimize? that my tax obligations and this kind of thing, all of these things are so alien to most small business owners that have, they may be there, they're just to have a coffee shop, I know I'll, focus on creating a good, a great experience, a great cup of coffee.

[00:37:33] Ayman: I'm not, innately thinking about the numbers. it's just a source of worry more than anything. 

[00:37:37] Rayhan: Yeah. 

[00:37:38] Ayman: So actually I've learned that the role of an accountant can be such a pivotal one. And if you think that most economies. are something between 95 to 99 percent driven by the SME economy.

[00:37:52] Ayman: It just shows you how valuable a role they play. So first and foremost, I really value the role that accountants have to play. I also think that they're not always set up for success as business owners in terms of the educational background that they have. So often they are taught to be fantastic accountants.

[00:38:15] Ayman: What they're not necessarily taught is. This is how you can present this is these are like the soft skills that you'll need to be a successful business person This is some of the business acumen how to market your business. For example, it's such a huge gap I would say across accountants in terms of the I guess Risk averseness as well.

[00:38:37] Ayman: They tend to be in general from what I've seen a little bit more risk averse. Yeah, and that's maybe that's actually a good thing. That's probably a good trait I would say so the positive side of that if I was to choose an accountant I want someone that's going to be relatively risk averse insofar as I want them to be anticipating some of the negative consequences of dealing with my business and the finances, right?

[00:38:59] Ayman: So you want them to make sure that they're diligent enough to give you confidence. So I think that's actually a positive trait, but it can also have a negative side effect, which is being too cautious and not thinking outside the box enough. There's not always an abundance of, creative thinking, which I think can lend itself really well.

[00:39:21] Ayman: So what I've found is that certain entrepreneurs, who are accountants, the ones that tend to stand out and get an edge are those that are willing to push themselves out of their comfort zone. That's probably not the norm in the industry, but I've seen so many, like countless examples of it. 

[00:39:40] Rayhan: Yeah. 

[00:39:41] Ayman: So it's definitely within the capabilities of, accountants and accounting firm owners to be that way.

[00:39:48] Ayman: Yeah. And the only thing holding them back is probably themselves and maybe the self belief mindset a hundred percent. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. I think you're a good example of that and not mean to Low smoke up anywhere, but, you're a good example of that. You're running a podcast now, right? Like you've branched out into software as well, as opposed to just doing accounting.

[00:40:08] Ayman: So I think that's a good example of how you don't necessarily have to be in a box. You can break out of that mold that they've created for you. And there's so much opportunity if you've got the confidence to do that. 

[00:40:23] Rayhan: Yeah, no, a hundred percent. one of the things about accounting firm owners is they get to meet entrepreneurs as well.

[00:40:30] Rayhan: And in my journey, we've got a good number of clients. and I do go out my way to meet them at least once a year. and I've learned a lot of lessons from them in terms of their experience in business. and I've been able to be bumblebee and cross pollinate as well. So what I've learned from one, obviously not going through the trade secrets, but has been able to help others where, you know, where they're going wrong and give them some advice.

[00:41:04] Rayhan: and some experience shares as well. and that's one of the things I enjoy about running a firm. not necessarily the deadlines and the data entry and the, your trial balance not balancing, which is for my OCD, not great, but it's, it's more, the outcomes, how does, how this business owner was able to make profit, which allowed them to maybe go on a.

[00:41:35] Rayhan: holiday or buy a house or put their kids in schools. And it helps real people. and we help small businesses. We don't help large corporations. So what we do immediately impacts an individual, not necessarily a collective or shareholder. and that's a lot of things we get. That's the kind of, it's the kind of satisfaction, I get from working with some of the entrepreneurs.

[00:42:05] Ayman: yeah, 

[00:42:06] Ayman: and I've seen that in probably the most successful accountants that I've seen over the years. They have this human connection, which I think is often lost if you're fixated on making money or just turning out work, which is repeatable and impersonal. 

[00:42:28] Rayhan: Yeah. 

[00:42:29] Ayman: And I think the accountants that have built that connection with people and understand the impact that they're able to have on not only that business, but the people behind the business, as you said, That's the thing that I've found most inspirational, actually.

[00:42:45] Ayman: And it's one of the things that has inspired me to come here and do what we're doing here. It's, I've seen in some ways, the emergence of accountants that are becoming more progressive in their thinking and wanting to do more than just compliance and compliance has always been the backbone, but it's just really just like the table stakes, right?

[00:43:09] Ayman: It's just the beginning. 

[00:43:11] Rayhan: Yeah. 

[00:43:13] Ayman: It's everything else that you guys bring to the table after the compliance. Which is the one that's going to, it's the bit that's going to make the biggest difference and that's, that ties itself into the impact that you're going to have on their, lives, as well as their businesses, which often for small businesses are intertwined.

[00:43:31] Ayman: It's often the business owner that's going to be spending their weekends doing their accounts or fretting about the money. And thinking about their kids, having to put them through school and all this. So by being advisors. You're not only does it make commercial sense for you as a, as an accountant, but actually the, rewards on a human level are also greater and the satisfaction you will get from that will be, something that you might get addicted to as well.

[00:44:00] Ayman: And that's what I see. I see, I've seen lots of accountants that have realized that and they do get addicted to wanting to help more and more businesses. And as a result, they become more successful. 

[00:44:12] Rayhan: Have you seen, you've obviously worked in the UK, you've had account managers, you've had, you've worked with accountants in Ireland.

[00:44:18] Rayhan: Did you work with accountants in South Africa as well, or just mainly? 

[00:44:20] Ayman: Yeah, to some extent, not, directly, but, I knew of them. I was exposed to them. I've spoken to many of them over the years. Yeah. 

[00:44:25] Rayhan: How does, obviously you've been here for over a year now and you've met with a lot of accounting firm owners.

[00:44:31] Rayhan: How do we differ from, let's say, a mature country like the UK, Ireland, the other regions? is there, are we still behind? is there anything that we're good at that the others are not? what's your observations with us versus some of the owners in other countries? 

[00:44:52] Ayman: Yeah, so look, I think the situation here is one whereby it's a product of the accounting landscape that you've, we've had in the UAE.

[00:45:04] Ayman: Yep. The VAT was only introduced, was it 2018? Corporate tax only came in last year and is now being implemented and people are having to become compliant with it, right? Now that is a new thing. Accounting here as a profession is relatively new. Lots of business owners just had their accounts in their head or on a piece of paper or in a spreadsheet or something like that at best.

[00:45:25] Ayman: So the lack of awareness here about what can help you do better accounting is much lower than what it has been in some of the other markets I've seen. And mainly because there hasn't been that need. Other markets like the UK had Making Tax Digital as a program, which Essentially made anyone that was VAT registered to have to use accounting software to submit their VAT returns.

[00:45:55] Ayman: No, we don't have anything like that here. so that need wasn't necessarily here to really ignite it. And I think without it, the UK wouldn't be where it's at today in terms of its accounting tech adoption. But that's an important element in terms of actually educating the market about the benefits because.

[00:46:16] Ayman: Unfortunately, while you're caught up in your day to day, it's very hard to take the initiative and make a change. So sometimes your hand has to be forced by a regulator or an external trigger of some kind. And they had that in the UK with MTD, so making tax digital. In South Africa, you also had the emergence of, so the external factors there would have been interests from some of the accounting software providers to zero, went out there with a go to market presence.

[00:46:48] Ayman: Sage have already been there. QuickBooks are interested in there as well and have been present. Over here we have fewer of the big global players in this space coming in and educating the market. Which means that the awareness of what solutions are out there to help you as a business to become more streamlined so that you've got the space to think about how I can add more value, how I can stand out.

[00:47:18] Ayman: These things just haven't really been there. So it means that there's been a gap of education. So it's not, I don't blame anyone in this market for being behind in terms of the adoption of the technology that will help them grow. It's just, they're just really a product of, that environment that's been created or the lack of investment in that space.

[00:47:39] Ayman: Yeah. from our side, from a business perspective, it means that there's an opportunity, but we've got a purpose driven mission here. To educate the market here on how software can help the accounting firms and their clients. Not only does it, is it going to make commercial sense, but it's also going to help you maybe free up more time personally so that you can spend more time with your families, whatever your goals are, or it can help you grow the business so that it's more investable.

[00:48:10] Ayman: Maybe you want to exit, you're going to, if you've got a system that runs like a well oiled machine because of the software that you've got in place and the business processes around the software. That's going to be a far more investable business than one that is far more traditional, that relies on you and your daily input, but there's all these other factors that people just don't know about.

[00:48:28] Ayman: And what we'd like to do is educate the market to the extent that they can, it can catch up with some of the other markets so that more accounting firm owners over here can get that freedom to make the decisions that they want to be able to make about their own lifestyles and where they go with the business.

[00:48:47] Rayhan: Yeah, no, thanks for sharing that. obviously we try to use as much tech as possible in our firm. I do know a lot of other accounting firm owners and, not that many are using processes and systems, the way we do. I think, that's because obviously I started from the UK and then made the UAE, my kind of head office, right?

[00:49:17] Rayhan: So I took a lot of the learnings from the UK, zeros, the apps, OCR. I took all of that and brought it here. And I guess that kind of helped me in my journey. I guess if I was here and I never knew, otherwise I would probably take a different route. so yeah, no. 

[00:49:37] Ayman: A hundred percent.

[00:49:37] Ayman: And that's a common trait, by the way, not to have, again, this isn't about favoritism or saying that one firm is better than another. It's again, a product of the environment that. Some firms have been raised in and some of the firms that I see that have come from other markets that have been more exposed to this due to the reasons we spoke about, they, when they're here, will keep those things, those ways of working that they've learned and apply them here so they're actually able to maintain the quality of life that they're seeking personally whilst growing a business over here.

[00:50:17] Ayman: whereas lots of the firm owners that have been here from the beginning. And are doing things, trying to do it all themselves or just through manpower alone with very little support from this technology. they are very much still in the weeds of the business all the time. And they almost can't detach themselves too much from the business because of that.

[00:50:42] Ayman: And it, it means that they're also able to stand out less from the crowd. which when you've got thousands and thousands of accounting firms being set up trying to take advantage of, corporation tax coming in and the influx of businesses that's going to come from that. Being able to stand out is going to become more and more important.

[00:50:57] Ayman: And if you're having to run faster and harder just to keep up, then that's not necessarily the recipe for success. You'll eventually, you'll burn out and the juice won't be worth the squeeze necessarily. So we need to find ways to work smarter. So what will happen is some businesses will listen to this message and they'll take action.

[00:51:22] Ayman: Others will wait a little bit longer. Eventually most businesses will come on board. We've seen it happen. It take, it's a process that will take years, but anyone that is an early mover will get a real headstart in the race, which we're all in. But actually one of the biggest factors that I've seen emerge in other markets, which have been a bit more mature in this kind of accounting tech space is the creation of communities.

[00:51:50] Ayman: So I found that accountants are not necessarily competitive and in that they're guarding of their knowledge. They're actually more prepared to collaborate. With other accountants, share knowledge, bounce ideas off one another, like the community we've got on WhatsApp over here, right? We're all in that and we've got like minded accounting firms who are looking to help each other out.

[00:52:17] Ayman: That's the kind of thing that we need to, Blow up a little bit more. And what we tried to do, we're trying to do that with accounting refigured as well, which is our kind of accounting event that we've put on for accounting firm owners. It's an accounting tech event. So the best event in the Middle East.

[00:52:31] Ayman: Thank you. I'll take that. It's a, fresh concept. We only started it in March and we're having a follow up one in just a couple of months time in September, which is a more workshop style one, but this will become an annual thing. We want to harbor this community. Keep that momentum going first to create some momentum around it and keep it going because that's going to be so key.

[00:52:52] Ayman: We need people to help each other out to drive the industry forward together. It's no one person or one firm can do this thing on their own and we certainly can't do it without having accountants on board, but the price of not doing it is too great for the region and the opportunity if we do it is Gonna benefit not only the accountants, but the SMEs and the whole region.

[00:53:13] Ayman: Because as I said, SMEs account for so much. of the economy over here. Can you just imagine how prosperous the region would be with solid advice being given to SMEs? They've been able to build up the region and the country over here where it is, which is amazing, despite all of that. Yeah. Imagine the potential once all these SMEs get a lot more support other than just getting their VAT returns file for them.

[00:53:41] Rayhan: Yeah. No. 100%. Any lessons or anything that if you could go back, say 12 months, you would do again, or you think, everything went, 

[00:53:53] Ayman: plain, sailing or? I wouldn't say it's necessarily all plain sailing, but there's, there was nothing major fortunately. So I'm very lucky in that way.

[00:54:00] Ayman: There's little learnings along the way, little quirks. Maybe some things you take for granted, some certain safety nets that you had back home or certain ways that Either business is done or just administrative stuff, right? And maybe having a heightened awareness. So what I would do probably in advance of moving is probably spend more time with my friends in the region.

[00:54:22] Ayman: Picking their brains about actually what are the best things to do? How do I do this? What about this? Getting more detail. I probably went a little bit too high levels. I had to figure stuff out as I went along. 

[00:54:31] Rayhan: Yep. 

[00:54:32] Ayman: Fortunately, I didn't have any major blunders. It was all little learning things that just took a slight, pivot here and there and everything was fine.

[00:54:39] Ayman: But no, I think, yeah, maybe just if people in the region, my advice would be really get into the weeds of what you want to do. And hopefully you've got, they'll, be supportive and give you some advice. 

[00:54:52] Rayhan: So Ayman, you're very active on LinkedIn. I see you're posting every day. Thank you. I love what you're posting.

[00:54:59] Rayhan: I love everything that you're doing there. I love the Habibis. it's every day, every morning when I look at my feed, I see you and it's refreshing for me. tell us about, how did you think of using LinkedIn as like a channel for, your, your personal brand. I know there's others out there.

[00:55:24] Rayhan: I know you, you're at the moment, you're targeting accounting firm owners or business owners at the moment with, through scope, many entrepreneurs, one of the things they need to do is work on their personal brand because people buy from people at the end of the day. you can always do paid ads and you can always do SEO, but When you're able to articulate yourself to a customer, that's the easiest way to convert.

[00:55:53] Rayhan: tell us about your journey. what kind of tips would you give entrepreneurs? I'm sure everyone's super keen to hear this. 

[00:55:59] Ayman: Yeah, so Habibi, Firstly, I think for me it was all about, I wanted to make sure that I was getting myself out there. I'm moving into this whole new market, and how am I going to cut through the noise?

[00:56:15] Ayman: And then I just thought about, I'm an Arab, I can get away with saying Habibi all the time. it's something that I use a lot anyway in my day to day speak. The Habibi thing just was almost like, incidental in some ways, but it, I think I used it a few times in my posts and it seemed to resonate.

[00:56:32] Ayman: I also thought it's going to make a different noise because LinkedIn's this funny place, where people think it should be strictly business and strictly professional. Yep. But actually, if you look at the most successful creators. They're not all strictly business. They are, they'll often interweave the personal.

[00:56:56] Ayman: They'll show their personality. They will not be afraid to be controversial sometimes or different. And I'd seen creators over the years. And I think, you know what, I really like what they're doing. It just comes across as authentic. They're not contained by the worry that someone might not like what they're doing.

[00:57:18] Ayman: And I think removing that fear completely, just, I just threw it out from there. I thought, you know what, I'm just going to be me. And I'd like to think that will cut through the noise. Just be myself, make a different noise in the market. That's like my number one bit of advice when people ask me. And don't make the same noise as everyone else because how are you going to stand out?

[00:57:37] Ayman: So for me, it's just me being me. Unshackled and i'm just able to yeah, just be myself and why it was important was I needed to Get scope notice. There's so many businesses in the uae That are looking to establish their brands. I can't remember where I heard it, but I heard that people, more people follow, let's say, Tim Cook, than they do Apple.

[00:58:06] Ayman: More people follow Richard Branson than they do Virgin. On social media, right? Because as you said, people buy from people. People connect more with other people. So it's almost a vehicle for us to get the scope message out there a bit more. but also, yeah, people will relate to me a bit more. So you'll see my face across all of it.

[00:58:25] Ayman: It's not because I love the way I look or anything like that. Not about that. It's all beautiful eyes. MashaAllah.

[00:58:33] Ayman: But no, I, it's all about people being able to resonate with the message. If you're just going to see text there, I think about it. You'll see a little square, a little circle in the top left. With someone's face that's been like really shrunk. I'm not necessarily going to relate that text, that post that I like with you and who you are.

[00:58:54] Ayman: Whereas what happens now is because I'll often either do a video or like a picture of myself or some kind of contextual image. People will relate me to the content that they like. so that's why I probably get recognized a little bit, even though my following is relatively small, about 6, 000 something on LinkedIn, it's not huge, you get a lot bigger followings, but the growth has been tremendous.

[00:59:19] Ayman: It's grown more than four times in the space of a year. Congratulations. Thanks, man. Yeah. But it's been, it's just been a product of consistency. I want to be myself. I've decided. A year ago that I'm going to post every weekday, most of the time that has happened. I wanted to keep my weekends free. Yep. I still have to think about what I'm posting on Monday on a Sunday night.

[00:59:43] Ayman: I'm not going to lie. What I don't do is I don't like line up the whole week. I initially started wanting to do that. But I quickly realized that it's just, I'm just too busy. My idea is I'll typically spend a few minutes to an hour, probably the night before, depending on the type of content I'm pushing out.

[01:00:02] Ayman: If it's a video, it needs a little bit more editing. If it's like a PDF carousel or whatever on LinkedIn, it needs a bit more design work, right? But, I do it all myself. So I just wanted to learn. Do you feel that if you batch content, the authenticity goes, It can do it depends on yourself whether you have to be conscious of the authenticity throughout.

[01:00:25] Ayman: Yeah, 100 percent otherwise, yeah, you can get into Too much of a cookie cutter approach, which does lose a little bit of touch Some people do it really well. Some people have teams around them So the bigger creators will do this batching or they'll have people helping them out But they've almost built up a bit of a library right over the years.

[01:00:45] Ayman: So their style is They're able to quite easily replicate it, and they'll interweave content that they've created themselves throughout that so that the general vibe is, but if you're new into it, you can't rely on that. That's why I really wanted to get into the weeds of it. That's why I create all my own stuff still.

[01:01:04] Ayman: I have done from the beginning. it's been a learning curve. Sometimes I was able to figure out by posting consistently and tracking the metrics. What stuff resonates more with others? Also, one thing you don't, I've learned that you don't want to necessarily do is just chase followers or like the vanity metrics or likes engagement.

[01:01:23] Ayman: That stuff can be helpful to help you figure out what people like and what people want to engage with. But actually, you want to curate a audience that works for you and your aims. I don't want just anyone following me. I want people that, might benefit from the message that I've got to go out there.

[01:01:41] Ayman: Yeah. Cause they ultimately could become leads for us as a business, but also I'm actually able to make a positive impact to people that would benefit from the message that I'm creating. So that's why I've always stayed away from this kind of buying of followers and buying of engagement. And there's all sorts of techniques that people will do for that.

[01:01:58] Ayman: I'll stay away from it. I'm trying to keep it all organic. I want to make things do things right. So yeah, hopefully, don't be put off by it. It does take time and consistency. That's the most important thing. It's. Taking me to be consistent and posting when I can't be bothered to post, honestly, sometimes your life gets in the way and yeah, and there's times when I've spent a couple of hours putting together a really fancy carousel, which has got low engagement and other times when I've just like last minute come up with something and it's gone through the roof in terms of the engagement.

[01:02:30] Ayman: So you figure things, out over time, but biggest advice is firstly, start today, not tomorrow, don't put it off. And stick to a consistent schedule that you can, deal with. For me, that was five days. I was happy. If you can only do three, fantastic. That's still good. 

[01:02:48] Rayhan: That's great advice. How about other platforms?

[01:02:50] Rayhan: Obviously you've got, Instagram and TikTok and Facebook and. wherever else have you, have you thought about those platforms or is LinkedIn the one that where kind of your crowd is and where you want to engage with, the people on that platform? 

[01:03:08] Ayman: For me, LinkedIn was the one that made the most sense.

[01:03:11] Ayman: If I was to do one, that's the one that made the most sense. I'm open also to going into other platforms. I'm also conscious of the time that I've got, and I want to be able to do it well. So LinkedIn was the one that probably had the best share and, naturally people are there almost looking for business stuff.

[01:03:33] Ayman: So they're almost, they're open more to being spoken about business there. Lots of businesses can lend themselves really well to someone like Instagram, like particularly creative agencies or beauty products. And there's all sorts of product, based businesses. Also lend themselves quite well, to Instagram.

[01:03:51] Ayman: for me and our business, LinkedIn is currently the one. And so I've decided to stick to one, do it well. Yep. As we grow, very open minded to experimenting with other platforms. But for me, it's What about that experimentation, you test and learn, figure out what works and that's, the most important thing is be, be bold enough to try something, but then also be humble enough to accept when it hasn't quite worked and to pivot, don't be, shy to pivot from what your original plan was, don't be stubborn about these things.

[01:04:24] Rayhan: And we're hoping for you to do your own podcast soon as well. 

[01:04:26] Ayman: Yeah, it's, 

[01:04:27] Rayhan: Have you thought about names or anything like 

[01:04:29] Ayman: that? I've already announced it. but yet to record an episode, so that will be coming real soon. Okay. So it's called, it's called Habibis and Numbers. Nice. So I have to stick true to the vibe, to the personal brand, right?

[01:04:43] Ayman: Yep. But no, it's all about an accounting tech based podcast, bringing together the people that are at the forefront of the accounting space, but also those that are leveraging tech and maybe some of the tech providers as well in the space. So I'm sure we'll have you on as a guest at some point.

[01:05:01] Ayman: I'm 

[01:05:01] Rayhan: looking forward to it. Good to have you on there. Thank you very much. Thank you for joining us on the Alphapreneurs podcast. If you enjoyed the show. Please subscribe and give us a five star rating and a review. For show notes and more, click on the link in the description. Connect with me directly on LinkedIn and search for Rayhan Aleem.

[01:05:22] Rayhan: See you soon.