Alphapreneurs

Ep#13- What Most Accountants Get Wrong About Marketing | ft. Jeri Williams

• Rayhan Aleem • Season 1 • Episode 13

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Most accountants think their biggest challenge is doing great work. But what if it’s actually not doing enough marketing?

In this episode of #Alphapreneurs, host Rayhan Aleem sits down with Jeri Williams, founder of Smooth Accounting, who shares how she went from working in her garage with two small kids to building one of the UK’s most followed accounting brands. Jeri opens up about how she accidentally became an entrepreneur, why marketing was never optional, and how she built a business that runs without her. From hiring the right people to making peace with delegation, Jeri shares the mindset shifts that helped her grow fast—without burning out.

👉 Follow Jeri Williams on LinkedIn: https://shorturl.at/butYn

👉 Smooth Dubai: https://www.smoothdubai.ae/

👉 Smooth Accounting: http://www.smoothaccounting.co.uk/

👉 Digital Accountants Club: https://www.digitalaccountantsclub.com/

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𝗪𝗵𝗼 𝗔𝗺 𝗜?

My name is  Rayhan Aleem, Founder and CEO of 𝗧𝗮𝘅 𝗦𝘁𝗮𝗿 and 𝗔𝗹𝗽𝗵𝗮 𝗣𝗿𝗼 𝗣𝗮𝗿𝘁𝗻𝗲𝗿𝘀. At  𝗔𝗹𝗽𝗵𝗮𝗽𝗿𝗲𝗻𝗲𝘂𝗿𝘀 podcast I sit with top industry leaders for in-depth conversations that dive deep into their success stories, market dynamics, and firsthand tips on entrepreneurship and profitability. Whether you're just starting out or already running your own business, 𝗔𝗹𝗽𝗵𝗮𝗽𝗿𝗲𝗻𝗲𝘂𝗿𝘀 offers something valuable for everyone.

👉 Follow 𝗥𝗮𝘆𝗵𝗮𝗻 𝗔𝗹𝗲𝗲𝗺 on LinkedIn: https://bit.ly/3U2niHn
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𝗦𝗽𝗼𝗻𝘀𝗼𝗿𝘀:

𝟭-𝗔𝗹𝗽𝗵𝗮 𝗣𝗿𝗼 𝗣𝗮𝗿𝘁𝗻𝗲𝗿𝘀:
  -𝗪𝗲𝗯𝘀𝗶𝘁𝗲:  https://www.alphapartners.co
  -𝗟𝗶𝗻𝗸𝗲𝗱𝗜𝗻: https://bit.ly/3Yf4VRZ

𝟮-𝗧𝗮𝘅 𝗦𝘁𝗮𝗿:
  -𝗪𝗲𝗯𝘀𝗶𝘁𝗲:  https://www.taxstar.app
  -𝗟𝗶𝗻𝗸𝗲𝗱𝗜𝗻: https://bit.ly/3ZVjzPD

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𝗟𝗶𝘀𝘁𝗲𝗻 𝗼𝗻:

🔗 𝗬𝗼𝘂𝘁𝘂𝗯𝗲: https://bit.ly/47gaW3F
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🔗 𝗔𝗻𝗴𝗵𝗮𝗺𝗶: https://bit.ly/3Mutunk
🔗 𝗔𝗻𝗱 𝗠𝗮𝗻𝘆 𝗺𝗼𝗿𝗲!: https://bit.ly/3XfGYbD

𝗘𝗻𝗷𝗼𝘆𝗲𝗱 𝘁𝗵𝗲 𝗲𝗽𝗶𝘀𝗼𝗱𝗲? 𝗦𝘂𝗯𝘀𝗰𝗿𝗶𝗯𝗲 𝘁𝗼 𝗔𝗹𝗽𝗵𝗮𝗽𝗿𝗲𝗻𝗲𝘂𝗿𝘀 𝗼𝗻 𝘆𝗼𝘂𝗿 𝗳𝗮𝘃𝗼𝗿𝗶𝘁𝗲 𝗽𝗹𝗮𝘁𝗳𝗼𝗿𝗺 𝗮𝗻𝗱 𝗹𝗲𝗮𝘃𝗲 𝗮 𝗿𝗲𝘃𝗶𝗲𝘄 𝘁𝗼 𝗵𝗲𝗹𝗽 𝘂𝘀 𝗿𝗲𝗮𝗰𝗵 𝗺𝗼𝗿𝗲 𝗹𝗶𝘀𝘁𝗲𝗻𝗲𝗿𝘀!

I think importantly, it's hiring people at the right level So now when we hire, it's about right Who do we actually need in the team? Where have we got a gap? Who are we missing or, or who are we going to need? More importantly, actually, who are we gonna need in six months? Because if you need them in six months and they're on a three month notice period, we better start looking now Welcome to the Alphaprenuers Podcast I'm your host, Rayhan Aleem I'm also the founder of Alpha Pro Partners, a bookkeeping business based in Dubai and Tax Star, a tax technology startup, automating corporation tax returns Join me on each episode as we talk to inspiring Dubai based entrepreneurs who share their stories, challenges, and secrets on building world class businesses I am really excited to have Jeri on the show today Jeri started Smooth Accounting from her garage in 2016, and since then she's built it into a thriving firm Was a full team, a studio, and over 600 clients In 2022, she expanded to Dubai, where she now helps entrepreneurs set up businesses and handle their accounting She's also the co-founder of the Digital Accountants Club, helping accountants grow their firm and embrace technology Jeri, welcome to the show Thank you for having me No, thank you for coming down Um You have an amazing story Um, and one of the things that really resonated with me was, you know, you like me, you are an accountant, you are a chartered accountant, and you transitioned from being an employee to an entrepreneur But not only that, you had, you know, you're married, you have two babies at the time Mm-hmm They've grown up to be, you know, wonderful children now And I know it's not easy for, you know, women to, to go through that I mean I have children myself, but it's, you know, I'm, I'm not the one who's looking after my kids Yeah Uh, I try to obviously, um, so for the entrepreneurs or for the employees who are out there and they are in a job, they're not happy in their job, but they have a, an idea to start a business Mm-hmm What kind of advice would you, would you give to that person? I think that when I did it, it was a little bit accidental in some ways I knew, I knew, obviously I was leaving my job and I was starting my business, but I don't think I really understood what that meant I think at the time it was driven by this want to kind of be around the kids when I wanted to be around them So not even necessarily be around them more'cause I knew that it would be hard Working for myself, but I think just knowing that if they were sick, I could be with them and, you know, take 'em to school and not miss anything important that they did Um, so I did it a little bit accidentally in thinking that I'll set up by myself and I'll just do a few accounts from home and that'll be it And didn't quite understand that it was gonna snowball or I didn't realize it would grow and I'd end up with employees and offices and all this kind of stuff So I think you have to take a risk If you're gonna set up on your own and you're gonna leave an employed job So it's, it's always a risk It has to be a calculated risk You know, I knew that my husband would support me I wasn't gonna earn anything to start with And he was like, you know, it's fine You can do this And I always thought, well, I'm a chartered accountant, so worst case I care job if it doesn't work out And I think as long as you've got a backup plan, um, and you are happy to take that calculated risk Then go for it, you know? Because life is very short and I think it's important that people believe in themselves You know, I did, I did believe in myself I kind of thought, well, this is what I'm gonna do now and I'm just gonna give it everything I've got and, and yeah, I just went for it So, and, um You've, you know, I've, I've followed your journey and, you know, you talk about your journey in your, uh, you know, in, uh, online as well And I have a similar journey where I was an accountant, I wasn't a business owner, I was an accountant, I wasn't in sales Mm-hmm So I didn't understand the whole process of bringing in business And one of the things that, not just accountants but entrepreneurs have to realize is they meet, they may be a technical expert in a specific field, whether it's law, accounting You know, brick laying or whatever, where whatever it is Yeah Um, and you've l in your journey, you've learned a tremendous amount that the average accounting accountant or entrepreneur doesn't learn Mm-hmm So you went from being a technical expert to being an entrepreneur who is able to go out there, win business at ease now Yep Um, and that's usually one of the biggest challenges that entrepreneurs face when they start their Their journey Yes But you know, you've, you've overcome that And what kind of a, if, if an entrepreneur then decides to, or an employee decides to set up a business mm-hmm And they want to, they don't know where to start, you know, what, what, how was your journey from that point of view from when you Okay Leaving my job, setting up my business I wanna spend more time with, with family I mean, I, I had the same thing as well'cause if I was working, I, I wouldn't come home Right? Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah Um, how, how did you kind of, how were you able to teach yourself those skills that were, that make you who you are now? Yeah, I mean, I, I talk about this a lot actually And for me it was about marketing and I think I, I try and say to people and accountants all the time that You're not doing enough marketing Even if you think that you are, you're not right I'm not doing enough, and I do it all day every day It's the most important thing in my opinion, because if you've got a steady stream of inquiries coming in and you've got a demand for your service, you can pretty much cope with anything I think business wise, no matter what it throws at you, no matter what problem you have, if you lose clients, if you lose staff, if you can't recruit, if you know whatever the issue is, if you know that you have got enough clients coming in And can tick that box It, it changes everything Not having or not knowing where your next new clients are coming from is a level of stress, I think, on entrepreneurs that causes so, so, so many issues because the panic of not knowing, you know, where your next new, new lead's gonna come from How you're gonna afford X, Y, Z, or how you're gonna grow Or if you lose a, a great paying client If you've got a steady stream of new inquiries, obviously you don't wanna lose clients, but it's not the end of the world 'cause you will replace them So for me, when I started on my own, you know, from day one I was marketing from like the minute I woke up in the morning to the minute I went to bed and in my head I kept thinking, well I know I can do accounts right Um, I'm an accountant, I can kind of do that in my sleep So don't worry about that so much The problem is, is And I've only talk really for accountants, but what I see the problem is, is that they focus so much on the doing on the accounts and the kind of software accounting kind of, they focus a lot of their time What they need to do is just make a decision on these things Make a quick decision, you know, I'm gonna use X software and that's what I'm doing, and just roll with it Mm-hmm Like, it's, it's it, they get so bogged down in the Set up and the kind of operational side, and they completely ignored the marketing And like for me, I did the opposite I almost to the point where I ignored the rest of it and I was like, it's fine Like I'll use Excel I'll to start with, you know, till I've got enough clients I'll, I'll make do, I'll get a VA and to help me, I'll, you know I'll muddle through, but I need to focus on marketing and have that steady stream of clients And I just think that's the most important thing And still now to this day, like it's not, you know, it's been nine years and it's still the most important thing to me Yeah I don't think that will ever change Yeah No, that's, that's, that's great Great insights into what you've, uh, what you've done But I also want to kind of dig into the learning process because for me, um I, when I was growing my firm, a lot of the things I was doing was testing, trying, learning, um, speaking to other people, understanding how they do, um, their marketing, you know, their, uh, their sales Mm-hmm Um, and, you know, I was lucky to get a few mentors Yeah Along the way I was lucky that People gave me the time of the day to to, to gimme some of their insights Yes Um, and it's little things like, you know, even there was one of my friends who was into sales, he told me this concept about A, B, C, always B closing Oh yeah I love that Um, which Some people frown upon, um, some people say that's bread and butter when it comes to sales, but in terms of your learnings, how, how did you, how did you learn to become probably one of the best, you know, uh, or most successful entrepreneurs in terms of, I, I don't even class you as an accountant I class you as an entrepreneur, right Um How did you become so successful in learning sales and marketing to then get to a point where it's coming to you consistently? I think Well, thank you for that I'm glad that you don't class me as an accountant'cause I couldn't do a set of accounts if I tried nowadays Um, but I think it was a case of doing like anything in life, if you do it enough right, you get good at it And I I look back now and I think, gosh, I've never had any marketing training, like I've never had any sales training I've just done what I thought was right, and I've been consistent and, you know, I'm, I was the same I had a, I've had a mentor kind of again, accidentally, but from day one back in, like when I started in my garage, I ended up meeting her Another accountant and he owns a firm, much, much bigger firm than mine and kind of just become good friends But I always really, really respected him, looked up to him, learned so much from him And although he has a totally different kind of model to what I have in terms of what he does, he's so super successful And I just love surrounding myself with really successful people because in my mind I'm like I wanna know what they're doing, like all the people that are doing it really well If I was starting out on my own, I'd be like, I need to surround myself with people that are doing really, really well in whatever capacity that might be So whether it's just following them on LinkedIn or watching their YouTube, or you know, kind of absorbing information on people that are doing it well because there's a reason they're doing well Right So it is It's kind of, I think consistency The more you do something, the more you learn it I don't think I knew I was learning it I just thought at the time, I just need to keep doing this I need to get my name out there Like everyone needs to know who I am, and I was so tunnel vision with it and not distracted by anything else Like, this is what I'm doing now You know, and I actually kind of wrote a ebook, like a hundred Ways to Market your accounting firm that I just, I gave away online This was like maybe a couple of years ago Just gave it away for free because I get asked all the time, like, how do I get leads and how do I get customers? And I'm like, if you do these a hundred things right, every single one of them for the next 12 months, come back to me in 12 months because you will not be able to cope for new clients The problem is, is that a lot of accountants, and I mean this with love Kind of will be wondering why they're not getting clients or where I'm gonna get clients if I'm not really doing anything You know, always say like, what are you doing to get new clients? You know, if you're not getting them, what are you actually doing? Like, 'cause I could tell you 10 things today that I've done already, right? Yeah And it's like half 10 that I've done today to market my business, right? Because that's how serious I take it It's like an extension of my being, you know, I'm I never take it for granted that even though Smooth Accounting has a good name and you know, I have a, a strong personal brand, it doesn't matter, it doesn't stop I'm still consistent to this day and I'll be consistent as long as I need to be, you know, to, to keep my business growing Mm-hmm So I think consistency is so super important with marketing and with trying to get leads and sales and people through the door So people wanna know overnight fix sometimes, and it's just not That's just not the way it is Yeah, no Fully agree with that So you've started your business as an entrepreneur, not as an accountant Um, you started as a solo founder and then you built your team Um, and that takes a lot of courage Mm-hmm Takes a lot of Uh, learnings as well Not, not only that you are also juggling your family You are doing the hundred things you do on in terms of marketing Um, how was your mindset in terms of how do I hire the right people? How can I make sure they're doing the right kind of job for my clients? How can I make sure that I'm optimizing my marketing? That part of the business is probably the most toughest Once you go from yourself to building a team to, you know, scaling your business, how did you, what kind of things were going through, you know, through your head, how we, how were you able to cope in that challenging time? In the early days, I hired from like a panic position I simply cannot cope I have too much work and I'm, this is not why I set my business up and I'm so stressed So I'm just hiring people left, right, and center Like, can you help, can you help? And not really thinking it through and that, that just didn't work out eventually, you know, it, it is not a long term strategy at all I learn over the years You need to strategically hire, you need to hire the right people at the right level But that definitely came from making mistakes with hiring, um, and hiring from a position of panic, which is never a good place to be Um, so I, once I kind of realized, hang on, this is not right I think the light bulb moment was When I hired my first kind of qualified, experienced person Mm And that was a real gamble for me'cause I remember thinking, I can't afford them Like, I'm looking at my figures and I'm like, but I can't cope with the amount of work I've got So I, you know, I'm in that chicken and egg situation, what do you do? And I just, again, had to take a bit of a risk and it is a risk Um, but I was like, I'm gonna do it So I took on actually a part-time lady She came on three days a week And it was amazing She came in and just took stuff off me and like, it's never happened before and I was maybe like three years in to my business at this point and I should have done it earlier Um, and my advice would be hire technical skill people as soon as you can, you know, because Change the difference It makes that change when they come in to, to everything, to your, how you feel You know that peace of mind that, hang on a second, she doesn't need me to help her Mm-hmm She's just answering client queries, just taking with stuff off of me and actually better than me doing the accounts and stuff And it went from there actually And now my team over the years has been built up of excellent technical, skilled people And over the years I've stepped more and more and more away from being the accountant, uh, and You know, I don't do any of that, that work I, I haven't done for years now And, and I have a wonderful team that do it, but I think it's, it's hiring people at the right level So now when we hire, it's about right Who do we actually need in the team? Where have we got a gap? Who are we missing? Or, or who are we going to need? More importantly, actually, who are we gonna need in six months? Because if you need them in six months and they're on a three month notice period, we better start looking now Mm-hmm You know, we've just hired two people that are both on three month notice periods, and obviously the wait is long Long time when you're really, really super busy So, you know, having people that can take the work off of you is a game changer But what a lot of Business and new business owners do And what I did is you think you can't afford it So you hire cheaper, uh, less skilled people Yep Because you think, well, it's fine I can show them what to do You don't have enough time to run your business Right? You, you already don't have enough time So why are you hiring a junior? It's going to literally push you over the edge'cause they're gonna need, naturally, they're gonna need your support I think take on the juniors, but take them on once you've got a person that can teach them Mm-hmm Right? So I always think you hire this The qualified, experienced person, or not necessarily qualified, but the experienced person that can do the work for you, they then teach the juniors, and that's kind of how you grow and expand your team That would be my advice Yeah No, I think, I think you've touched upon two very good points The first thing is a lot of entrepreneurs, when they set up their business, I'm sure you've seen this, the first high is usually junior hire Yeah Um, the second thing is, you, you mentioned something about Your first hire was doing things independently and they probably knew the technical side better than you, for example Yeah And it's very difficult for an entrepreneur to hire someone who's probably more technically, uh, skilled than them Yes Because they get uncomfortable But it's important that you hire the best people around you because The insecurities isn't the fact that they're gonna take your job, you know, it's your business at the end of the day If anything, they will increase your revenues and give you capacity as a, as a, as a company as well And I think that's really good insights for someone who wants to set up Uh, yes, it's difficult to make that decision to hire someone good in the very early days I mean, when I set up my business, the first thing I wanted to do is hire people, because I realized, as you've rightly mentioned, that there's just so much we, we need to do, uh, as, as an entrepreneur, and we need that support from day one to kind of take certain things away from you Um, and I won a big, um, contract with, uh, implementing Xero, for example And literally the first thing I did with that money is I hired people because I knew that if I'm gonna continue to grow, I need the capacity to, to ensure that I can fulfill more demand Um, so I think that's excellent advice that you've, you've given in terms of when you are managing the team and when you're managing the clients and when you're managing the business A lot of accountants, I know a lot of entrepreneurs I know, they kind of get really stressed out And they find it very difficult to juggle Sometimes entrepreneurs go into, employees, go into entrepreneurship, and then they just go back again Yeah Or they go into it or they sell their business But you know, you've, you've sustained your business for the last, you know, eight or nine years and you've grown it, which takes a lot of guts and resilience So how, how have you made sure that mentally you are always ready for that? For your to be the best self in your business every day I think the main thing really is delegating I think that it is hard as business owners, we are naturally and, and accountants We are control freaks You know, it's our business It's our name above the door The thought that you have to let go of that control and give stuff to other people and just hope and pray that they do things How you do them or better, you know, is, is really worrying and it does go wrong sometimes And you know, I quite often got asked how I handed all the clients across 'cause years ago I took on a client manager and just went, here's all the clients, you know? But how did you do that?'cause my clients wouldn't won Will only deal with me You know, I get these accountants that own their own businesses and they're like, I can't I couldn't I simply couldn't You know, these are legacy clients I've had 'em for years Like, I couldn't pass'em onto to someone else And I'm like, well, you absolutely can You know, and I, and I did, and I gave away all of my clients You know, one of our clients was paying us like 80 grand a year in fees, which is huge to us Right And I still gave them away I gave, I gave all my clients away to someone else because it was a choice You know, you have to make a choice What do you want? Do you wanna be tied to the business and not able to be that strategic person making those important decisions and literally in the nitty gritty all day, every day, and juggling a million things? Or do you want to have the time and the freedom? And the space to step back and run the business properly and grow it properly Mm-hmm You have to make a decision what is more important, because if it's more important to you that you don't upset any clients, you don't lose any clients, you know, then, then you're gonna be stuck on that happens the wheel, you're not coming off of it For me, I accepted that some clients weren't gonna like it Actually, it's a lot less than you think because people want A good service and they wanna be dealt with quickly and they wanna be dealt with by someone who knows what they're doing, right? So if you can tick those boxes, they're not actually that bothered that it's you I think as entrepreneurs we, we kind of like to think it's a little bit arrogant, really, that people desperately want us and that's not actually normally the case So you kind of need to, to To knock yourself down or like a peg two and be like, actually they, you think they want you, they're not that bothered Some of them might, and some of them might get a little upset There's gonna be a lot less than you think Mm-hmm So I just rip the plaster off This is who's looking after you now? You know, I simply can't do it anymore I'm, I'm running the business This is who's looking after you now? You'd be looked after really, really well I'll make sure you manage that transition really well The communication is key And keep the clients happy and, and you know, 99% of them are gonna be fine You do, you just, I think you have Or, or entrepreneurs tend to have this opinion about it, that it's gonna be horrendous It's like when you put your prices up, it's gonna be horrendous and everyone's gonna go mad, and like maybe two people even reply Do you know what I mean? Like, that's, that's literally what happens It's always so much better than you think it's gonna be Um, so yeah, I've gone off on a tangent a little bit there, but I think You have to delegate And for me it was like, look after clients, you know? That was step one Delegate that somebody else Yeah And now we are, we are many, many years on I still delegate the life out of everything Absolutely everything I don't want to do stuff Some entrepreneurs and accountants, they want to be really heavily involved in every little thing Yeah I used to be like that Yeah Yeah And I used to be like that I've done a complete 180 I used to be like that and like I know best Right But over time I was like No, I don't think I really wanna be involved Actually, I wanna have free time, you know, and I did a complete 180 I got to the point where I was not needed at all Mm-hmm Like obviously, I'm still the, the only director and it's, I'm the strategic decision maker and that's, it's my business So I'll always be the person that makes the important decisions But actually I got the business years ago to a point where I don't do anything on a day-to-day basis, you know? Yeah So if I go on holiday For a month and shut my phone off and nothing will change I'll come home back in a month and the business will have grown still and we'll be running fine And that's how I got it too So it is all about making a choice, but for me, delegate, get good people and get them to do it And in terms of your mother, your, your wife, you've running a business, you've got lots of customers coming in Um, how do you Stay on top of peak performance So for example, I try to, you know, go gym Um, I have my routines, um, you know, I, I try to spend time with my family Um, but what kind of things do you do to kind of keep you at peak performance? So, you know The employee who's a mother of one or two once gotten a brilliant idea, but they just can't make that jump What kind of advice would you give them from, from that point of view that keeps you at your, at your best? I think surrounding yourself with good people is really important because lots of people are going through the same things you are Lots of people have the same worries, you know, and just sharing Like that you're stressed or this is the worst day ever and you wanna give up, and those kind of things And having someone else going, I understand, you know, I've been through it There's so many groups out there that you can join There's so many support groups, membership groups, you know, mentors, all these things Just surround yourself with good people, prioritize your time over anything It's hard to do it in the early days, so it's easy for me to sit here now that I'm much further along and say it I didn't do that in the very early days, but I did do it As soon as I realized that I was on this hamster wheel, when I couldn't get off, I literally was ruthless I went, right, I'm getting in people to do this stuff I'm not doing it anymore Like it's just, I just made the decision was it was, I remember it happening I changed everything and I was very conscious about it The problem is, is that a lot of entrepreneurs, they say that they're too busy, they can't cope, but they don't do anything different They just, you know, they'll, they'll say Everything's too stressful and I'm trying to juggle these clients and I've got family and I dunno what to do And it's like your people will give you advice and say, well, you're not charging enough'cause if you're charging more, you'd have enough money to hire someone to help you so you could have more time with your family Like, yeah You have to be open to what other people have done, how they've done it better, and make changes, you know, and protect your time My time is more precious than anything to me, you know, and it even down to like a five minute email I won't send a five minute email if it doesn't need to be me Mm-hmm You know, even though I could literally just reply Yeah, that's I don't, I think, why are you sending it to me? And I'll just find out why they've contacted me about it and be like, can you not? This is who you need to contact Yeah So it's not about that five minute email now it's about, I don't ever wanna receive that again It's not me that needs to answer that, you know? So I'm so, so precious about my time And I think have that as a goal that you wanna get to that point and, and make Important conscious decisions that are gonna get you there, rather than moaning about how hard it is and just staying on the hamster world and changing absolutely nothing Right It's not gonna, it's not gonna help Yeah, no, that's, that's, that's a great point And um, I also wanna touch upon obviously, um, you know, women as well, right? Yeah So I think 90% of my workforce is female Mm-hmm Love that Um, I would say 60% of my clients, maybe 70% are female as well Yeah There's a lot of female entrepreneurs in the region Yes Um, and there's a lot of really good, talented females who want to become entrepreneurs, but they get held back You know, I know that there's stigmas and I know that there's, you know, I've heard horror stories where, uh, some of my clients who are female, uh, they want to start a business, but then someone comes in and says, why would you do that? Mm Right And, you know Stay at home Mm-hmm Or they would say things like, you are female, you can't do this Yeah Um, so I want to hear that kind of perspective from what, how, how you've, uh, what kind of encouragement could you give the, the female budding entrepreneur and what kind of, um, did you find that there were instances where customers, clients, partners, they tried to hold you back, but you just broke through that doubt? Yeah, I definitely think In the early days, I remember once I'd qualified as an accountant, I would go to i'd, I'd start trying to build a client base So this is when I was still employed It was like the next step Now I'm qualified, right? Go out and win business So I'd start networking and I definitely had a lot of misogyny then and, and I would meet a lot of men, you know, a lot of men in suits at events that kind of Were confused by what I was doing, you know, like, oh, so you're a bookkeeper? And I was like, oh, no, I'm, I'm a charter accountant You know, I've got, not that there's anything wrong with being bookkeeper, there isn't They're amazing, but they couldn't get their head around that I was actually kind of in charge of my clients and I'd be the person that they would deal with And there was, there was many conversations like that And I think in the uk, especially the accountancy world, it's very male dominated, certainly at partner level Mm-hmm You know, there's very, very few women, um, compared to men that the proportions in CEO positions that have started their own accounting firms, that have grown accounting firms to, you know, quite a big size, um, on their own There's very, very few, and, and it's real shame And I do think it's because, you know, it's just not set up really for women who, you know, potentially might be mothers as well Um, but I would say that for any women listening or watching, um We are very capable and, and this is not, um, a negative thing about men'cause I don't know what it's like to be a man I can only talk from my experience But when I look back to the kids being babies, starting the business, my husband was working all the hours under the sun just trying to keep our heads above the water, just trying to pay our bills It was absolute chaos, but we did it And I think women are so very capable You know, we, we, we have children, we work, we quite often look after the house as well and, and do these things And we juggle a million things in life So If you are thinking of starting a business or have started a business, you know, you will be able to do it and it will be hard, but we're just so capable of juggling Yeah You know, that ability to be like, mom, one second business owner, you know, I'm kind of on the phone like this and I'm changing a nappy, but I'm talking to a potentially new client like it without the business You're doing those things anyway Mm-hmm You know, like quite often Yeah And again, I'm not saying always, but quite often women are juggling a lot of things looking after the house and you know As much as I think it should be more 50 50 Um, with everything I think naturally women do juggle a lot and we're very good at that So actually believe in yourself You are so very capable of being a mom If, if you are and having a business as well, you can do both, right? It doesn't have to be one or the other Um, and by starting a business as well, you're creating a life for your family You know that, and I'm speaking from personal experience I've created a life that I Could never have ever imagined I would have ever, ever, ever, you know, it was not, it was what other people did Yeah And now I've created that So if I can do it from, you know, a hundred pound secondhand laptop and a dining room table, like, and two little babies at home, you know, anyone can do it Any women can do it So I think You are really, really capable and, and good at juggling things, so just go for it You are one of the entrepreneurs who, you know, you set up your business in, in the uk Mm-hmm Um, and then you made that jump from the UK to the UAE to set up your accounting firm Um, and you did it at the right time One of the things that I'm noticing in this market in Dubai is there's a lot of entrepreneurs from the UK who are coming into the UAE to set up Um, in certain situations what they're doing is, you know, in the uk cost of living is high Um, taxation is going up The economy isn't doing so well Mm-hmm So many small businesses are not doing as well as they, they, they would like Um, some cases they're coming here, they're setting up, um, and they're just setting up here because they wanna live here Mm-hmm They're managing their business in the UK from here Mm-hmm And they're saving money on tax, for example Mm-hmm But there's also the opportunity of, you know, the UAE is a booming economy Everyone's coming here, you know, population has grown from 25 million to 4 million Uh, you've got lots of big companies coming here You've got a lot of foreign direct investment coming into UAE Millionaires are coming here as well Um, and then next door you have Saudi Arabia, which is Probably the government spending billions Yeah And billions on these giga projects where there are plenty of UK companies where they would sell, sell doorknobs, or they'll sell, you know, concrete and they can come in here and then also win some of these projects in Saudi Yes Um, so not only is it an opportunity to save money on tax, but it's actually an opportunity to expand your business as well Mm-hmm I know you are an expert in helping entrepreneurs moving from the UK here'cause you are, you, you know more about UK tax than I do Right Um, and you are now an expert in the corporation tax here as well So what kind of advice would you give that entrepreneur in terms of, okay, I'm in the uk I'm sitting on the fence, I wanna set up in the UAE, but it's, I just need that little bit of a push What kind of advice would you give them? Yeah, so it is a great question and like you say, so many people, so, so many people doing it at the moment Um, initially, generally what we tend to find is that people need advice around the tax first So that's always a question that UK entrepreneurs have naturally, because we're paying such a huge amount of attacks in the UK and it's getting worse, so Usually we have conversations around that because what happens is entrepreneurs will start looking online, how do I save ta? Like if I move to Dubai, can I just sit up in Dubai and stay in the uk? No Right No, you can't Just, let's just get out there like easy Lemme just tell you No, you can't Um, and they try to find out About the tax situation and they realize that it's so complex that they can't get a concrete answer They can get loads of different people going, I'll do this, do that And it's, you know, it's when I see it, some, some of the things I see online of people trying to help, it's like, oh no, that's not right Uh, and so we tend to help with the tax piece first So we'll do like a tax consultancy piece first, and I think that's really important Whoever you get it from Whoever, whichever tax expert you speak to, you understand that first, how to become non-resident for tax in the UK if you are leaving, because if you leave and move to Dubai You get it wrong by one day or one piece of the statutory residency test, you get wrong You know you're gonna be taxed on your worldwide income in the UK and you've moved to another country You know, that is the extent of how wrong you can get it And to me, this personal tax savings are the most important when you're leaving the uk So many people focus on corporate tax I'm like, I know it's up to 25% in the UK and it's only 9% here There is obviously quite a big saving there, but the personal tax savings are huge Right People are restricted on what they can take outta their UK business because how high personal tax is, and you've got none in Dubai, like that's the differential It's Such a massive thing So get the tax piece right, whoever you speak to Once you've done that and you understand how you can become non-resident of tax, then you start looking into setting up a business, which is very easy here You can set up a free zone business, mainland business, uh, and then get your visa and then you can basically move here and live here Um, but I think understanding the tax side Sometimes people do that too late So if you're an entrepreneur and you're looking to move to Dubai, understand the personal tax and the corporate tax side of things and how it's gonna impact you, specifically, how much you're looking to save and, and what impact that could have on you and your life And then follow through with the business setup and everything else afterwards And, um, in terms of personal income tax, obviously for the Dubai resident Mm-hmm Or for the budding UK entrepreneur coming in Yeah That includes obviously your income tax, your national insurance Mm-hmm Tax on dividends as well, right? Mm-hmm Yeah Um That ends up being quite a lot Yeah, it's huge I mean, there are some rules around it You know, if you are tempering non-resident, like if you come here to Dubai for less than five years, or leave the UK I should say, for less than five years, um, there can be some restrictions around dividends, but, but generally, you know, yes You know, you're talking about wiping out potentially Your whole income tax and national insurance bill Mm-hmm Um, generally UK residents will pay 52 weeks of national insurance If they're on a salary, they'll pay that, um, for 52 weeks after they leave Um, but then they would stop And to some entrepreneurs like that is such a huge amount of money You know, you're talking tens or hundreds of thousands of pounds Yeah You know, and then also capital gains tax You know, if you're looking to sell a business maybe the next few years, as long as you come here for five years You are not gonna pay any capital gains tax, you know, and that's worth millions to some Yeah UK entrepreneurs and, and actually some that we've helped, we've actually relocated some UK uh, business owners because of that exact reason You know, they're like, I either paying millions in capital gains tax or I moved to Dubai Right? So it's, it's a no brainer Um, so yeah, I think the tax impact is huge And, um, you've obviously helped a lot of entrepreneurs move from the UK to the UAE Can you give us some examples of some of the success stories that you've had as well? Mm-hmm Uh, just to k kind of give, um, these ent the, the entrepreneurs a bit more encouragement into come, coming here Yeah, for sure So, I mean, I could talk about my own one for starters before I even talk about any clients, but, you know, I moved here with the view of just living here Um, just having an adventure with my husband and the kids and having a great time And I've got a UK business, it's doing well Why not don't need to be in the uk and because of how Dubai is and how it's a lot of expats, you know, majority expats in the community, everyone's in the same boat Everyone's so supportive I ended up with a business now in the UAE that I never really intended to start So that's, that's what I find happens I feel like it's, there's so much opportunity here and everyone's willing to help everyone Mm Sadly, I don't really feel like it's massively like that in the uk I haven't experienced that I've experienced a lot of jealousy and a lot of, you know, people don't really like to see business owners doing well in the uk Sadly, that's been my experience Um Whereas here, that's just not the case for me So I ended up coming here just randomly chatting to people, you know what it's like, you know, kind of chatting to parents at the school and you know, people are caned by accounts So I've got a UAE business, can you do my accounts? And I'm like Sure Like, you know, um, and then I just ended up with clients that I was like, oh, I guess I'm doing this now then, and can you set my business up? You know, you set yours up, can you do mine? Sure And now it's just snowballed and it's growing quicker than the UK business, you know, it's only been not even three years, almost three years I've had the UAE business and its growth has been ridiculous Mm-hmm Um, because that is what it's like here So in terms of Examples, you know, that's me as an example But again, other clients, I've had numerous clients that have really successful UK businesses that have no intention of trading out here, but they just want to move here for tax reasons Yeah And a better quality of life But then they're phoning me up a few months after they've moved and they're like, I've just won a contract in the UAE Like, forget what I said I wasn't gonna trade my UAE company I've just won a contract And that just happens all the time Mm-hmm I mean, you and I were chatting before we sort of started this podcast about, you know, who you know out here and building those relationships And I definitely have those really strong, solid relationships in the UK where we get referrals and people You know, I've grown my business because people have recommended me, but I feel like here there's just a vibe about helping and this growth mindset Yeah There was a growth mindset in Dubai that you come here and you, you do well and you want to do well, and everybody's just buzzing and everyone's like helping this person, that person, and you know, it just has a different feeling It's hard to explain Yeah So not only do you come here and set up a business The support network is there It's massive Um, and you know, whether you know it or not, something will fall on your lap Yep And you can grow your business a lot faster than maybe say, a UK business Yes For example Um, so, um, so yeah, no, great, great, great insights Um, and I, and, and from, from my point of view, you know, I've seen many entrepreneurs not only bring their business here, but also win contracts in Saudi as well Yes Um, Saudi's doing great Um, although there are ups and downs with doing business in Saudi, um, the opportunity is the big contracts, right? Yes So here you can win small contracts, big contracts, and it's, it's, you know, you can run a profitable business Yes Out there, the setup costs are a little bit higher Yes But if you win the one of the big contracts, it could be a game changer Yes Um, and coming here and learning the region mm-hmm Is something that Uh, we'll help you get there Yes Um, so thanks for sharing that Um, I think we'll wrap up now Yeah So you've been an amazing guest Thank you Thank you for your insights Uh, is there anything that you would want to, any, any final thoughts in terms of, you know, how, how can the Audience find you What kind of things are you working on right now? I know you mentioned the Digital Accounting Accountants Club Yes Um, so for, for Smooth my accounting business and my, and Smooth Dubai Um Our websites I'm on LinkedIn, Jeri Williams I'm also, I've written a book Moving to Dubai Nice Um, for UK business owners I have the draft I just need to tweak it You can join the wait list for my book on my LinkedIn and any of my social media pages There's a link to join the wait list, but that should be out in the next couple of weeks, and that is every single thing I know about Moving as a business owner from the UK to the UAE Um, so I'm really, really excited about that And yeah, for any accountants watching, um, I co-founded the Digital Accountants Club with, um, my colleague Sam, and we basically are teaching accountants, uh, accountancy practice owners how to use AI and software and tech to grow their businesses Nice It's a membership group It's digitalaccountantsclub.com You can join us, whether we're a really big community of accountants and everyone helping each other and loads of resource and knowledge sharing, webinars, discounts, CPD, all of that stuff Um, so yeah, if you are interested in kind of learning more of the tech side and the AI and how to save time and money in your firm, then come and check us out Thank you very much Thank you Thank you for joining us on the Alphaprenuers Podcast I hope you enjoyed the show Please subscribe and give us a five star rating and a review Your feedback is appreciated For show notes and more, check out the link in the description and connect to me directly on LinkedIn and search for Rayhan Aleem See you in the next episode