Operation: Game Night
Travis Smith, Jared Erickson, and Clay Gable get together to discuss the latest and greatest in board games in this weekly podcast. What's hot, what's hitting the table, featured discussions about board games and the board gaming culture, and the primary mission objective- to play more board games!
Operation: Game Night
Joint Ops June: Games Y Más - Board Games This-or-That w/OGN
This edition of Joint Ops June comes from the Games Y Mas Podcast with our good friend Vic!
Through a series of "This or That" questions, we explore the fundamental divides in gaming preferences that shape how we play.
• Dice vs. Cards - The tactile satisfaction of rolling dice versus the strategic planning of card play
• Area Control vs. Engine Building - Whether controlling territory or optimizing systems creates more satisfying gameplay
• Tile Placement vs. Static Boards - The joy of discovering and building the game map versus traditional fixed boards
• Cooperative vs. Competitive Games - The thrill of working together against the game versus facing off against your friends
• Euro vs. Ameritrash - The fundamental divide between resource management efficiency and thematic immersion
• Board game pet peeves, including analysis paralysis and slow play
Join us for lively debates and stay tuned for future collaborations with Games Y Mas, including potential live streams where we'll play games together. Give Vic some love on Instagram @gamesymaspod and make sure to subscribe to his podcast for discussions on video games, board games, theme park popcorn, and more!
As always, come interact with us online, let us know if you have any feedback, and leave us a review/comment anywhere you get your favorite podcasts!
https://www.instagram.com/operation_game_night_podcast/
Show your support for the OGN Crew by contributing to the OGN War Chest:
https://www.buzzsprout.com/2396881/support
What is up? My Nerf family, and welcome back to another episode of GameZ Masked Podcast. We're talking about all things board games, video games and pop culture. If you guys have not guessed from the video, or if you're just listening in, we have the guys from Operation Game Night back here again on the podcast. Guys, we have Travis, Clay and Jared. How are you guys doing today? Yes, oh my goodness, Whoa, whoa, whoa, whoa, whoa, whoa, whoa. Oh there there.
Speaker 3:It's good to be back.
Speaker 1:It's good to be back I'm glad to have, I'm glad to have you guys back. Man, last time you guys were on I had such a blast. Literally I was telling my wife I was like, literally, that whole episode I was like grinning cute to be.
Speaker 1:I was having such a blast with you guys. It's fun. Oh my god, I have you guys back on um, but you know scheduling and you guys are obviously popping off on operation game night. You guys are taking off, you're taking flight. You're leaving me in the dust, wait you know, come back.
Speaker 3:You guys are doing amazing work, anyone.
Speaker 1:Yeah, no, you guys are. You guys got stickers? You got you know you had some big guests on there. Anyone that's listening that's not followed Operation Game Night. First of all, shame on you. Shame on you for not following Operation Game Night. So go give them a follow. They're awesome. They produce amazing content if you're into the board game genre life. But I'm very excited to have you guys back on here. We're going to be doing kind of a different little episode here. We're going to be doing a this or that board game edition components. I've developed a couple questions here that I'm very excited to ask you guys, um that you know we're going to take off, maybe get into some heated debates. It's going to be awesome. It's going to be raw, it's going to be unprofessional, but it's gonna be real, it's gonna be super real and I love it. Um, so I'm very excited to have you guys on here. Um, so, with all that being said, guys, pull up a chair, grab a dice. I don't think you're ready. Are you guys ready?
Speaker 4:I'm ready. How are you?
Speaker 1:I'm ready, just like I don't even know why I'm here. What? What's going on?
Speaker 3:Yeah, this is the first Jared's hearing of this.
Speaker 2:Yeah, I actually read the WhatsApp message about 20 minutes ago. I'm like, hey, babe, I have a podcast in 15 minutes. I got to go.
Speaker 1:I got to get going, I got to go. Oh, she's like what are you talking about? I have no idea, but we'll figure it out these guys.
Speaker 2:they keep me in check.
Speaker 1:No, I love it. I love it. That's even perfect. I'm glad you don't know, jared, because we're going to get some real answers from you here, travis and Clay probably prepared and have the professional answers. Jared's going to be like look, you're all wrong. Not at all. You're like I forgot the questions too. No worries For those of you guys that are listening for the first time or watching for the first time.
Speaker 1:First of all, thank you so much for watching and listening. We love to hear your guys' comments of any of these questions. If you guys are on team on one of these sides of these teams of these questions that we ask, we'd love to see it in the comments below. But we've had Travis, jared and Clay on our podcast before. We got to know them a little bit. We got to hear their icebreaker questions of their favorite board games and video games. So if you guys want to check out that episode, go ahead and go give that episode a gander so you can hear a little bit more about their origin stories, about how they became a podcast and how the wonderful work they've been doing, and then also check out to see if Castle Burnley is a top show for a yard sale game. You know that we did right there.
Speaker 1:Yeah, clay's grinning a little bit. He's like clay's, you know, grinning. He's like, okay, you know, go ahead, check out that episode, go find out who operation game night are and how they got started. They're awesome guys. I mean, I said every time I get to talk to them it's such a joy, especially on instagram seeing your guys's shorts and your in your post. Um, it's awesome. I love seeing you guys keep me up to date and you guys introduced me to a lot of board games, so it's really awesome. Um, but today I'm very excited to do a little this or that kind of thing game thing. We're going to be messing around here, um, just asking these questions. I do have five questions. Um, I wanted more, but I feel like I think five is enough to start a debate here or start some, start some heated. Unless we all agree on everything, then we're just like okay, we're. We're kind of boring man, I guess 20 minutes, here we go yeah, in and out, shortest episode ever.
Speaker 1:There we go, but're good, we're good, we're good here. Um, but before we get started, I want to get like a maybe an update on you guys, how you guys been, what you guys been up to um, podcast wise, maybe even life wise.
Speaker 3:You know, jared, you know you know what I'm talking about.
Speaker 1:No, no don't, um, no, but if you guys want to talk about, yeah, gaming wise, what you guys been up to, any new games you guys want to to endorse or rave about that you guys have been talking about, or anything, like I said, let's catch up. How is Operation Game Night doing? Go ahead, take it away guys, whatever you guys want to share. Share now.
Speaker 4:All right. So we just published our 33rd episode of Operation Game Night. Yeah, let's go. We post weekly on Thursdays soon to change around June timeframe June, july and what we're going to do is we're going to potentially break up our sections. We have one big long like 115-minute episode right now and what we potentially will do is break up our debriefs where we talk about the games that we played that week. We're going to break up our mission objective, which is like our special topics, and then potentially do these grab bag episodes where we talk about what we've been doing outside of board gaming. Lots of cool guests coming up, lots of cool episodes coming up. We've been playing tons of cool games. We are all loving Rebirth right now. Clay's been loving SETI he played that a couple weeks ago. Jared's been loving Terraforming Mars. We hit it hard every week on Board Game Arena. So, yeah, I'll let these guys give their pitch, but yeah we're going strong.
Speaker 4:We've got good listeners, we've got great engagement and we just hope that people will engage with our stuff, listen and, if they like it, go ahead and share it with their friends and hopefully grow the audience a little bit so that we can get a? Uh more people to like, touch base with and talk to and and exchange our love with board uh, love of board games.
Speaker 3:No, yeah, you got there yeah, there you go you.
Speaker 2:You said grab bag. I am actually I mean, we call it over the fence but I'm loving this grab bag idea. We've always been a huge fan of bags on Operation. Game Night Since the beginning. A velvety, soft bag that we can shove our hands into, wiggle our little hands around, pull something out. And speaking of bags, oh, my God. No, no, no, no. I will say though, Vic, the last time we talked, I think Travis had like a full-on beard, maybe.
Speaker 2:Yes, he did, he didn't even look like he was in the military. I know he's a gold medalist now. Did you know that? Oh my God.
Speaker 1:You went gold.
Speaker 2:Yes, he went gold. So since we talked, I have to calm myself down because my daughter is taking a nap. I feel the eyes upon me. She's probably outside, but since we talked to you last, travis is a gold medalist, clay is a Hall of Famer and I have a botched vasectomy.
Speaker 3:Those are the highlights there it is, there it is.
Speaker 2:Those are the highlights of our. It is there, it is. Those are the highlights of game night.
Speaker 1:I'm like is he going to segue into it? Let's go. Is he going to segue into it?
Speaker 2:It's only been eight minutes and 20 seconds according to this recording clock here, Yep, yep yep.
Speaker 1:He pulled it off he pulled it off.
Speaker 3:There it is, literally.
Speaker 1:I have nothing to contribute Physically and physically and literally Just end the podcast now. Thanks for watching guys. It's cool.
Speaker 1:I wonder what? Jared's little statement there at the end Don't forget to like and subscribe, guys. We'll see you guys next time. No, yeah, for sure A lot of new changes. I mean, yeah, the beard is gone for Travis, for sure he had to go back. Look at that handsome man, now you know, looking ready to talk some. Some board games here um seti, um clay man. Uh, dude, I'm still I'm iffy about that game okay, okay, I'm iffy too, so I'm very because I'll say this the hot take.
Speaker 1:I think it's overhyped, I think the game is way too overhyped.
Speaker 3:I can see where you'd be coming from. The theme did a lot for me. It carried a lot of the weight because I'm a space guy, I'm a Space Force Guardian Well, I'm leaving the Space Force, but I was so space has always been cool to me. And, yeah, without the theme theme I think that game would be forgettable. But I just really like the process of finding that evidence for the aliens, flipping them over, getting your little rovers out on the moons and the planets. It just it just felt good and clicked for me in a way that a lot of heavy games don't. So it got a bump for me. It's still like heavy games are never going to be ones that are like 10 out of 10s for me.
Speaker 3:But yeah this is a heavier game that I would want to play again. So no, that's a lot yeah yeah, for me it's a game.
Speaker 1:When I first started, I was like I don't know how I feel about this. Here's my gripe, though the aliens. I think oh, he hates I think they could have been better. I think they could have been better it.
Speaker 3:I think they could have been better Okay.
Speaker 1:For instance, again, I'm big into immersion. I think Forsaken Realms they have immersion down With, like what are some of the?
Speaker 4:games. You talked about Nemesis, nemesis.
Speaker 1:Nemesis. Is it Forsaken or is it Awakened Realms? Awakened, awakened Realms, okay, awakened Realms, they have immersion down. For me personally, nemesis Lords of Ragnarok, you know, even Council of Burgundy, you know gives you some emergence here. So I'm used to that kind of immersion. So now we have Seti, yeah, yeah.
Speaker 1:Debatable, debatable debatable a little bit don't bring up scars. Yeah, exactly, yeah, um, yeah, check out the last episode, though, that we did. Yeah, well, but um, so when we, when it came to seti, though, like flipping over the aliens, I was expecting, I guess, maybe a miniature or something. Not like a picture maybe, because, like I think I can tell you might notice, but like the one of the aliens is like that, uh, the picture is like of a satellite that's green. It's like that green satellite.
Speaker 1:You know yeah so I was like, all right, cool, what is this? And my friend was like, oh, it's the zone this. I'm like, oh. So we discovered, like the color green, or what. What do we discover? It's like a satellite that's green okay that's an alien.
Speaker 3:That's actually. That's actually a really really fair point. It they don't actually have aliens on the cards, it's more like the, the aura of an alien species, like, yeah, it's a little yeah, it was a big big.
Speaker 1:It was a bit of a letdown there. That's my gripe. But the the gameplay mechanics, I think is great. You know the way the, the orbit is shifting and your satellites and your probes, I think it's awesome. It's cool. Um, and then it's got some spacex reference on there, so I'm like I can't escape my old work, right, it's cool.
Speaker 3:Whatever, would I be sad if they put Alien minis into SETI? No, I wouldn't be.
Speaker 1:I wouldn't. It would bump it up for me, for sure I'd be like I like this game now.
Speaker 3:Add a little bit of a combat mechanic in there, somehow, I don't know.
Speaker 2:Make it ET themed. There you go. You discover ET et oh yeah, go find little the guy. His little neck comes out like phone.
Speaker 4:Elliot, exactly, you gotta get on your bikes and get them back home.
Speaker 1:Perfect, uh, no definitely yeah yeah, it's. Um. Yeah, my gripe is on set. He is, I don't know it's. Uh, I don't know, I like it. I'm not gonna clamor and like hype it up like everyone else has been. Yeah, I'll enjoy. If you pull it out and want to play, okay, I'll play with you for sure. But that's not like guys, we gotta, we gotta, we gotta, we gotta play seti like tomorrow. We gotta play seti tomorrow like we gotta.
Speaker 3:I should be like I can. I would never play the four players again. I mean it took it took forever.
Speaker 1:It does take forever, for sure, it is forever, I'm not into forever games. No, I agree.
Speaker 3:Especially Euro games.
Speaker 1:Yeah, they're big and that's one of the questions that we'll get into for sure. Oh, shoot, clay, I'm sorry.
Speaker 4:I stepped on your toes and I said like Clay's been loving SETI, and then you're like Clay's been loving SETI, and then you're like no. I don't like that game. It's not for me. Oh, it's so long Like I feel like I like. Set you up for failure there.
Speaker 3:Is there a?
Speaker 4:game that you would like to shout out, because I tripped on your toes.
Speaker 3:One no one's willing to learn. I like SETI. I'm not getting to play it because I have nobody that's interested in playing that hard of a game for that long, so I really can't keep engaging with it. But the two times I played it there was a lot of satisfying things that made me invigorated about a Euro game which I haven't been in a while. So I do like SETI. It does have a lot of things that keep it from getting played and keep me from really loving it, but it's a game I'm happy to have. I'll probably never get rid of it because I like the theme and I think there's a lot of cool interactions happening in it. So that's my take on Steady Vix. All his gripes are valid.
Speaker 1:I can't argue with any of them. They're my gripes.
Speaker 3:Everyone else is different, but I was actually going to shout out Rebirth as well as a game that the entire Operation Game Night podcast has been loving from Reiner Knizia. In fact, we're going over the Spanglers later today and Mary was like, can you bring Rebirth? And I was like, wow, so great, simple, quick game to play, teach can't go wrong.
Speaker 4:Never heard of this game take a note down it's great Rebirth. I'm all right, actually, I'm all right. I'm not.
Speaker 1:Rebirth. You're already giving me two board games already that I have not. He's got props.
Speaker 2:There you go, he's got it up. He's got it up. It looks beautiful. The theme is kind of like steampunky the world has, but we're trying to rebirth. Rebirthing the world, yes Interesting. So you're focusing on your energy and regrowing plant life. Super simple though.
Speaker 4:Specifically in Ireland and Scotland.
Speaker 3:The rest of the world's toast.
Speaker 1:Yeah, forget those guys.
Speaker 3:Yeah, Don't get too invested in the theme though.
Speaker 1:Oh really.
Speaker 2:Interesting.
Speaker 1:This might not make your top shelf.
Speaker 2:Yeah, I know. Yeah, oh, interesting, which, by the way, I don't know, if you guys know, arnak is on the top shelf. Did you guys see?
Speaker 1:that I did see that yeah, with carly, I think they they fudged the numbers on that.
Speaker 3:Oh, get out of here that was carly right that was carly.
Speaker 2:Yeah, four game buzz yeah, she she made me fall in love with arnak all over again. I didn't even think I could, and uh I'm a big fan of arnak.
Speaker 1:So yeah, shout out to carly, thank you for coming on that pod. She was awesome, she's great, she's amazing. Yeah, um, and she talked up, she, she sold arnak. I was like bro, like yeah, you're right, jay. I was. I was like, as we, I'm like man, you need to get me a copy of Arnek because this is a great game.
Speaker 4:It's fun.
Speaker 1:And I've been playing more BGA, by the way, so we got to play it again, and this time I'll be on it. I'll be on it, jared, don't worry.
Speaker 2:Vic, why don't you send me and Carly a three-way of us, our neck?
Speaker 1:together, I'll send it. You could be the.
Speaker 2:I don't know. She sounds legit, she knows her stuff.
Speaker 1:Yeah, she's pretty good. I'll send her an invite with you guys.
Speaker 3:Don't add me. I can't get involved anymore.
Speaker 1:I got time for that. I play the little games on there, I'll play Can't Stop.
Speaker 3:Hey, clay, send me the little games on there, I'll play.
Speaker 4:Can't stop, I'm not getting the hey Clay, send me an invite on Can't stop and we'll play Can't stop.
Speaker 3:Yeah, while they play lost rooms, there you go.
Speaker 1:I was actually thinking that you think about, like I'm like for like future episodes board game play. Yeah, yes, okay, let's do live and, like I, have my twitch channel. We stream it.
Speaker 2:We stream it live and we get it. I keep, I keep bugging these guys every week. I'm like when are we gonna get? I want to get on twitch and start playing some games with these dudes, there I'm down they just want to talk about board games. I want to be about board games there you go.
Speaker 1:That's what I'm talking about. That's jared right there, don't. Don't talk about it. Be about it, be about board games there you go. That's what I'm talking about. That's Jared, right there. Don't talk about it. Be about it. Play some board games. You know For all we know. We just talk about it. We don't even know how to play it.
Speaker 3:We don't know how to study.
Speaker 1:It's all talk over here man yeah, exactly, it's all talk.
Speaker 2:We don't even know how to act. Board game player. I mean, obviously they introduced me to so many new board games but like I just I am the dumb one. That's like, put something in front of me, I'll just play it. But these guys are like it's just like this mechanism and it's just like this, and they like lose me with these words, like euro. I still don't even know what that means um there you go
Speaker 4:but I love it. This first question then I don't know.
Speaker 1:We're gonna learn today. You're gonna learn today what it is one of the questions we'll have to skip that question no I, I think, I think we gotta manifest it, we gotta do it. Let's, let's set up a time where we can just live stream a board game, yes, and just go full at it I got the channel already set up and ready to go.
Speaker 1:I'm very excited. We can do tts, we can do bga, we can do whatever we can run it, and I'm very excited. I everyone keeps do TTS, we can do BGA, we can do whatever we can run it, and I'm very excited. All my buddies are like why don't you livestream Borgans? I'm like, yeah, why don't I livestream Borgans? But then I was like I need people to livestream with.
Speaker 3:Right, here we are, I got three players.
Speaker 1:Right here, I got three players ready to go, so tune in for a future episode for that one for sure.
Speaker 4:Can we talk about your Twitch channel real quick? I see you've been streaming some Marvel Rivals. Yes, let's talk about it for a second. Who's your main? Let's do it.
Speaker 1:Let's do it, okay. So that's a loaded question because I've been jumping around. Okay, so if I'm playing Quick Play, if I'm just doing, if I'm playing comp, if I'm doing Quick Play, I'll jump around from maybe like um cloak and dagger. I like support, I'll be support, I'll do cloak and dagger. Uh, I'm not a big fan of dps, so I don't like being iron man or iron face.
Speaker 1:I don't like. I don't like being front lines, I like being backline. I don't. I don't like doing damage. I like either being front lines vanguard. So, like my, my favorite vanguard to be is right now I'm digging captain america. Yes, so I love digging captain america, but I also switch between him and thor because I like oh yeah like me and thor um, but I don't mind being back playing cloak and dagger like I.
Speaker 1:I could be a mean cloak and dagger like I, get dirty. Okay, comp, if I'm doing comp, I'm for sure cloak and dagger. Okay, because, because nobody wants to be healers, because everyone sucks, because everyone wants you to take all the glory, I'm like, bro, you need healers.
Speaker 3:How are you going to heal yourself?
Speaker 1:So Cloak and Dagger is my main, and then I'll either switch between Thor or Actually, in comp I'll switch between Thor or Magneto.
Speaker 4:Okay, excellent.
Speaker 1:We need a shield, we need shields. So I need to be able to protect some of my peeps Excellent, but DPS I can't play DPS, it's too quick for me, it's way too quick for me it's too much pressure it's too much pressure.
Speaker 1:It's too much pressure, yeah. And then people get mad at you because you're like, oh, where's my help? I'm being attacked from the back line. So I'm like I don't know what I'm doing. Half the time I'm just running around on walls and blasting things. Yes, we've been streaming a lot. If anyone's interested, I'll leave a link below. We're called Los Sad Boys. It's three guys and me that we like to play games. We call ourselves the Sad Boys because every time we game we just suck at everything and everything bad just happens towards us. So we're just like this is sad and we have our every. I try to do every day at least an hour between 11.30 to 12 pm Pacific Standard Time to do every day, and at least an hour between 11 30 to 12 pm pacific standard time.
Speaker 3:Uh, we call it our hour of sadness.
Speaker 1:It's just one hour of us just being playing games, being sad, being super sad and just failing everything. And you can. You can see the clips.
Speaker 1:We played phasmophobia, which is a scary like ghost oh yeah, um, we've been playing that and like we cannot get one right for the life of us ever. Like we've been playing that came so long and we still can't get one. We barely just got one a couple, like days ago. We're like, yeah, you know, but we ended up sucking, and so it's like, yeah, the sad boys are here to just make your life sad or make us sad or gaming. So, um, yeah, that's a little bit of our twitch channel. We've, yeah, playing, playing marvel rivals.
Speaker 4:Um, I just love playing that game uh, before, I don't want to derail our board game conversation, because these guys are just sitting here staring into the void, oh my God.
Speaker 2:Are we drooling a little bit have?
Speaker 4:you played Repo yet.
Speaker 1:I have Repo. I have Repo, I need people to play with. I need people to play with.
Speaker 4:You need to stream that, because Repo is a great streaming game and great Do you repossess cars?
Speaker 2:No, no, you go in as a group.
Speaker 4:Have you ever seen like Terrence and Phillip from the South Park show yeah With their big like flappy mouths?
Speaker 2:Oh yeah.
Speaker 4:Yeah, yeah, so it's like that, but you're like going in to grab haunted items while these monsters like hunt you in this haunted house yeah. And so there's like positional audio, like if I'm standing close to you, you can hear me very closely and we can like whisper back and forth.
Speaker 4:if you are very far away, you might hear me like running down the hall going, yeah you see him running by, yeah yeah and so, yeah, it's like just chaos and you're grabbing these artifacts that cause different chaos to happen, like you grab a little ballerina and your character is just like constantly spinning in circles, it's madness and random stuff.
Speaker 1:Yeah, super, a lot of random stuff. That it's a fun. It's a fun horror game, great content. Like you see your friends freaking out and you're like, oh, yeah it's fun when stuff like that yeah, um, but yeah, yeah, yeah, that's a bit of some video game talk. I mean, we are a video game podcast, but you know this is this is a board game episode right now.
Speaker 3:You know that.
Speaker 1:Clay and Jerry are like oh, look at these nerds. Thanks a lot, Travis, I don't care about these nerds.
Speaker 2:I mean Clay. He plays a good amount of Twitch, or what is that thing.
Speaker 3:Nintendo Switch Switch.
Speaker 2:I mean my family does my family
Speaker 1:does.
Speaker 3:I'm more of a watcher. There you go.
Speaker 1:I observe, I observe, I don't partake. Let's get to the episode why?
Speaker 4:are we here, guys? Why are we even here, jared?
Speaker 3:don't know why are we here, jared's literally like why are we here?
Speaker 1:Yeah, so we developed five questions here that are this and that, questions based off of board game mechanics, board game elements, board games not per se like you know, terraforming Mars or Castle of board games not per se, like you know. You know, terraforming Mars or Castle of Bergen, not this or that, but like deeper into more of the mechanic of games that we probably play. I kind of almost wanted to do like scrap this and just talk about board game pet peeves of ours, which I think would have been pretty cool, but I think this is a bit more structure. We can do a pet bees talk later some other time. Um, but we got kelly the jelly here joining us here. I keep forgetting to mention her. She's always in our podcast episode but she always helps us.
Speaker 1:My co-host here, kelly, thank you so much for joining us um, it's my wife's, but she's like put it on the podcast, okay, um, but here we go. We got five questions here. Um, first question here. Uh is very interesting, I'm curious to hear you guys here. But the question is would you guys rather have dice mechanics in a game, a good dice mechanic game or a good card mechanic game? Gotta choose one of the other ones. You prefer to be dice rolling like, prefer dice rolling or do you want to play some cards and get some synergy playing with those? What do you guys think?
Speaker 2:game I love. I just love randomness of the die, the die of just like I, I instantly go to. Oh, what are you shaking your head already, travis, I knew it, I knew it, I got thoughts he's already got thoughts.
Speaker 3:I think you think you like dice Jared, but I don't know that you really do.
Speaker 2:Really Look at your favorite games.
Speaker 4:Let's talk about this for a second Dune Imperium Jared Where's the dice Lost? Ruins of Arnak Where's the dice Lost?
Speaker 3:Runes of Arnak, where's the dice?
Speaker 4:I don't see any dice.
Speaker 3:Terraforming Mars.
Speaker 4:Jared, you are an engineer, you are an engineer, you are calculated, you are planning ahead, you're building decks.
Speaker 1:You just blew his mind right now.
Speaker 4:I appreciate it. You're a party boy. You love rolling dice out of a specific out of a mountain pyramid the mountain game.
Speaker 2:Uh, yeah, uh dice miner, dice miner.
Speaker 4:Yeah, yeah, the troops love dice miner also dice miner, yeah, yeah the troops love, dice miner but it's also cold and calculated right, like you know the dice ahead of time. You're not rolling dice for randomness, unless you were toasting somebody or cheersing or whatever it's called.
Speaker 1:Interesting. You want to retract that Between?
Speaker 2:rounds. You do roll the. You know you do a little dice miner re-roll. But let's say I like the dice, but you know it pays the bills.
Speaker 1:The cards pay the bills, but you know it pays the bills the cards, play the cards I don't
Speaker 2:like being good at card games.
Speaker 1:Okay, it's not the cards chose me, okay it's my curse to bear being good at card games. It's just a curse. I rather I wish I could like dice, okay, okay. So, um, okay, we said we already got some thoughts on here on dice or cards mechanic. What do you think? So we going more, you guys going more towards cards Travis, you like more towards cards or dice Clay? What do you think? Me personally?
Speaker 3:Do we have to come to consensus as Operation Game Nighter? No, no, you guys, free to explore individuality.
Speaker 1:This is a free-for-all. You guys go at it.
Speaker 4:But also watch what you say, Clay, because you're representing OGN.
Speaker 2:Yeah, and this your words will be perpetuity put on through the internet. Just realize that your great-great-grandbabies are going to listen to this.
Speaker 1:They're going to see this episode.
Speaker 2:I can't believe he chose cards over dice.
Speaker 1:Grandpa's a liar, he's a liar. We got him, boys we got him.
Speaker 3:I like dice Dice. Yes, Jared, you don't like dice. Stop cheering for that. Oh my God.
Speaker 2:You can't put cards in a bag. Okay, yeah, that's true. Can you do a grab bag with cards? Is that a thing? Maybe I don't know. I mean you could try it.
Speaker 3:It might not work, I use a bag. Let me tell you about a game I played just last night that has one die and it was so much fun. Winter Circle by Reiner Knizia yeah, not that puppy, it's older, out of print I think. But essentially you have seven, seven horses and they each have a card and it tells you what, how far they move, for each face of the die. So on the die there's like three horse heads, there's a horseshoe, there's a jockey helmet and a saddle, and so you just pass the die around, you roll it, it lands on a face and you decide which horse you want to move based on how far they would go. Based on that. And it was just a ton of fun just trying to play the odds of the die and decide what horses to bet on. I mean we had a blast. We played three rounds of it and it was the simplest game and all it had was one die. I think dice just create fun more.
Speaker 3:I like cards but I also do not like reading cards. That stresses me out a lot of times. Also played Agricola last night. Got my hand of 14 cards. Pretty much ignored them because I was like I don't want to have to read these cards and figure out what they do. Just set them down. I was done with them. So I think in general I'm a dice guy, dice guy Okay, okay, okay.
Speaker 1:What do you think, travis? What are you pondering? I don't know.
Speaker 4:I might have to defer to my co-host for them to tell me what I prefer, because I'm kind of split, honestly. I I'm thinking about my, our top five games, your top five episode, uh, very early on in our podcast career, and I think I'm split like right down the middle between dice and cards. Cards, yeah, to include like one game that is both dice and cards and two that are dice, two that are cards.
Speaker 2:So I don't know um I need to ask paul solomon. Uh, he needs to get inside my head and talk to me and tell me what my thoughts and feelings are, because I feel like he knows the design and the feel of the game, because I feel like the game will tell you whether you need cards or dice. I don't know you can't just force it, Uh.
Speaker 1:I don't know no it's true, you can't.
Speaker 2:You can't just say it's this or that. Oh, is that what the point of this?
Speaker 1:Okay, yeah, wow, yeah. Well, shame on you, vic.
Speaker 2:Well, shame on you, vic, because you can't. It's not allowed. It's not allowed, just inception dust.
Speaker 1:What are we doing here, holy crap.
Speaker 4:That was Bo from Punchable Games. That was talking about input randomness versus output randomness. Right, yeah, and I think what dice is like? Rolling dice for some sort of outcome is an output randomness, whereas drawing a random card is an input randomness. Correct, it sounds right.
Speaker 3:It sounds right.
Speaker 1:Logic checks Sounds smart.
Speaker 4:I guess I'm a dice guy, then Output randomness is what I prefer. I prefer reacting to something random versus me having to like just have some nonsense thrown at me through cards. I guess, I don't know, Maybe that's maybe I have those.
Speaker 3:You're a big Marvel champions guy, you know.
Speaker 4:I am a Marvel champions guy.
Speaker 3:That is the cardiest card game there ever was Super cards.
Speaker 4:The cardiest card game, yeah.
Speaker 1:I also love.
Speaker 4:I also love me some like root dice based combat.
Speaker 1:I love me.
Speaker 4:Some spots I love me, some can't stop.
Speaker 3:I don't know, it's tough man the point of it is to be tough take a side already. I'm going dice. Jared wants to go dice too, but we're not allowing it. Yeah, he's going. I mean but here's.
Speaker 2:Here's the thing I mean. The other big boy game that you didn't bring up was odin. A huge part of what I love in odin is rolling to try and either you know, go hunting or go pillaging. So it's like you're pushing your luck there and it's a big boy game and there is.
Speaker 4:I forgot there was even dice in odin.
Speaker 2:Yes, yes, it's a big part of it, like I swear, but but you're rewarded if you don't get the role that you like, like if you don't like what you get. If you go sailing, you know you get more resources to change the the pip value later. So what a great, what a great design what a great question, though I like that.
Speaker 3:Yeah, he's putting us in the hot seat.
Speaker 1:Yeah, it was harder than I thought yeah, oh man I mean. I mean, I don't, these next ones might be even harder, it's a little bit oh, damn it, vick.
Speaker 3:Are we gonna get your take on this, or yeah, yeah, yeah, of course, yeah, yeah, of course I want to get your guys's opinion so I can uh destroy you guys and say no yeah, yeah, that's why we're wrong.
Speaker 1:No, no, actually I'm agreeing with you. Guys dice I love dice just to just even just like that, the feel of having dice and roll I'm a big dnd guy.
Speaker 1:I love playing dnd, so I love the different types of dives. Rolling the dice, doing your checks, the randomness, like I said, the random output, you know. And then how do you adjust to that? How do you shift or pivot from your dice roll? You know it makes you think a bit more. Cards are cool. It makes you think a lot. But it's like all right, you're set with your cards, you can't do much, you know, unless you have, like you're just stuck on a turn with dice, Like all right, we don't know what could happen. You know, if I roll a seven it's going to activate the robber in Catan or it couldn't.
Speaker 3:There's always a chance. You know there's always a chance. You feel like there's always a chance.
Speaker 2:Yeah, dumb and dumber so you're telling me there'sanimous, yes, yes, wow, it's beautiful.
Speaker 1:There we go, perfect. So there you have it. Dice we're going with dice. If you guys like card mechanics, let us know in the comments below. But you guys are probably wrong because dice are better. But I'd love to hear your input on that for sure. Let's go with the next question. Here we go with. What kind of games are we going? Now, this is a type of game this or that, and that is.
Speaker 4:You guys prefer area control games or engine building games. Oh oh, we just Third hose, go ahead, jared, third hose just went off.
Speaker 2:Oh, geez, geez. Well, episode 33, we just did engine builders and ding, ding, ding. I'm just doing a plug for Operation Game Night on GameZMOS. I'm sold on Engine Builders. As an engineer, nothing pleases me more than getting in there optimizing my inputs to maximize my outputs, getting extra little add-ons. You know, you satisfy these conditions and boom, you just do something amazing. But I mean, area control is cool too, you know there's a reason.
Speaker 3:There's a reason you guys didn't let me. Yeah, well, you, we need jared, I was just a final lit up.
Speaker 2:Yeah, travis said something profound, though, last week. It's not a mechanism though. It's like engine building could be within everything and area control, so it's not. Uh, what do you call that? Um, mutually mechanism.
Speaker 4:It's a style of game it could.
Speaker 2:So an area control could be engine building. So I think I love purely engine building. I would love that more than a purely area control game. But you could have a lot of area control games that are engine builders. So there's my hot take, but sorry.
Speaker 3:Clayton. Anyway, guys, I really loved that episode and I'm glad I wasn't on it because I of the odd one out of my two engineer co-hosts, I do not get the same. Sure, it's nice when you make things more efficient, it's good, but I do not like that type of planning and eking and optimizing the way they do. And I do like a good area majority game where you're, you know, competing. I just played wrath of fire mountain, I think it's called. It's a phil walker harding game. It's like blood rage, but for babies. But it doesn't. You can play it with adults. Um, it's just so much faster, it's so much easier and you're just like competing to get your either dinosaurs or cave people out on these different areas and it's just so fun like trying to adjust and pivot and and adapt to what the other people are doing. It's more interactive than your, your engine building solidarity that you guys are doing over there. So I'm going. Area control area control.
Speaker 3:Okay, okay, I never heard of breath of fire mountain I just played blood rage, though for the first time, like two weeks ago.
Speaker 4:Okay, I was like oh yeah, also on bga, also on bga is it really send the invite? Bro send the invite let's get it yes
Speaker 1:okay, all right, travis, go ahead, we've got so while, while I am an engineer, I say save.
Speaker 4:Thank you, clay. I say save the engine building for work, save it for the workshop, save it for the carport. I am also an area control guy. I have a lot of fond memories of playing area control games, to include Wonderland's War, one of my favorites. Root, one of my favorites During COVID. We had a perpetual game of family risk going on the app where everyone would log on the same time. Anybody can enjoy an area control game. Not everybody can understand an engine builder or get it where it clicks and like the light bulb turns on and you are building an efficient engine. So, right, well, I do play a lot of both games. I think I'm going area control area control, okay, interesting, oh man.
Speaker 1:Okay, I'm gonna throw out some games for you guys that I enjoy playing, and you guys let me know if I'm area control or engine building, because I love both, I love both, but I'm torn because… Okay, I'll throw some games out. Okay, so Scythe Love that game. Okay, love Scythe. What else? A little bit of both.
Speaker 4:Twilight Imperium.
Speaker 1:Twilight Imperium. Oh, twilight Imperium, twilight Imperium. Love me some Twilight Imperium. I don't think Nemesis is fun, but that's more. That's something else. Okay, what else do I like that's within that realm Blood Rage. I enjoy it as well.
Speaker 2:Area Control.
Speaker 1:I love Blood Rage. I'm a big fan of Risk. Love Risk too. Area Control.
Speaker 2:There's a tiny aspect of engine building, though. If you get control of a whole continent, then you're building your engine to produce more troops. Just my plug for the engine builder, the sole engine builder here I would also say Scythe is way more an engine builder to me than area control.
Speaker 1:I think yeah yeah, the main emphasis of that game is to get most efficient. Yeah, engine builds with a little bit of some area control, for sure yeah um, now that I'm naming these games, I think I am going more towards area control. I do do enjoy some area control. I like the aspect of having your arcs. I love arcs. Arcs was fun, big area control game.
Speaker 2:You got to.
Speaker 1:It's just so satisfying having to move your big armies to other spots and be like I'm attacking you with this and you're like what You're like what are you going to do?
Speaker 3:Beat them, take all the red dye.
Speaker 2:Don't even care. Yeah, yeah, doesn't matter. Uh, okay, hot take. Can I get the consensus of the group it? What about katan? Is that an engine builder or is that area control? Engine builder more than area control, though, I mean.
Speaker 4:You're putting down cities, settlements, you're cutting people off, I can be set up front right like engine building is a style of game or a type of game, but the area control is the mechanic I need paul solomon again.
Speaker 2:Can we call him? Can we uh?
Speaker 1:I think I I going to go with. What did we say I?
Speaker 2:think it's engine. I feel like you're building your engine.
Speaker 4:I don't think those two are exclusive to one another they are what's more?
Speaker 2:I don't think I guess, it's just how you play. How do you individually play? You could treat it more as one thing or the other.
Speaker 1:Yeah, Maybe when I say when you area control, I think it's like quicker, quicker things. You're placing units, you're getting down, you're getting placing with mechanics. Catan is a bit of a slow game because, like, you're not quickly placing cities. You're not quickly because you get. Now you got to build resources, now you got to build this. Move on to the next spot. I think area control is you can take and then get taken. You can control an area but it can be taken away from you.
Speaker 1:I think, in Catan you can take an area, but it can't be taken away from you, because now you're locked in, you can't have adjacents, you can't. So, like now you're locked in, that, I guess a mini area, you could kind of control it a little bit, but, um, I think it's I don't know, actually I'm torn about that one now, because another more thing right give me your hot, take, he's primed oh hi, it sucks anyway
Speaker 2:yeah, it's painful for me because I just brought it up because it's the most like universal, it's the most accessible. That's an entry. Go back to episode. What episode did we go? What did we call those games? Gateway games?
Speaker 1:Gateway games.
Speaker 3:I'd go Engine Builder.
Speaker 1:Engine Builder, active or passive.
Speaker 4:Huh, active or passive? I don't know what you're talking about. Well, we talked about it last week on the podcast, but active is where you're exchanging resources that you have in order to build a more efficient engine. Passive is where it just grows over time. Oh, it's active.
Speaker 1:It's an active? I think it's an active for sure. Yeah, you have to. You can't just let it sit. You got to return.
Speaker 3:Don't quiz me, don't quiz me, don't quiz me on the podcast, this or that.
Speaker 2:I listen to most of it.
Speaker 1:Okay, so we're going.
Speaker 2:I was just going to do a quick update. Ai is saying engine builder kind of Area control, not really in the traditional sense. So I think, Vic, you're right, You're right.
Speaker 1:This man asked ChatGPT to help us out. Asked, he doesn't mean I chat gpt to help us yeah, this guy doesn't take a pee without chat.
Speaker 2:Yeah, yeah, I was like he hasn't had the original thought since 2004 no, yeah, should I pee now or should I take a drink of water first? Let's ask a gemini.
Speaker 1:What's going on?
Speaker 2:with my life? No, okay, so history yeah geez.
Speaker 1:Um, okay, so three of us are going air control. Jared's gone with engine building here. Um, again, not bad. No, there's some great engine builder games. It just I'm with you with clay where it's like. I don't want to think too much on how to maximize my, I just want to control things, I want to brute force. I just come in here and punch everything and I take over your lands. And you can't take over, you know, but in a smart way. So, yeah, I think air control is a good one. Engine buildings are great. Again, let us know in the comments what do you guys think? What are you? Team engine building or team air control? Here we go. Another one that came to mind, which is a bonus question that popped into my mind as we're talking, is abstract games or worker placement games.
Speaker 3:Worker placement. I don't even need a second to think about that. Yeah, worker placement. We did an episode a while back with Tara from Tara's Bad Luck Club about our favorite game mechanisms, and worker placement is one of my favorites. It makes so much sense when you put your worker on the spot that gets you two sheep, and then you get to take two sheep. It feels good to do it. I like the jockeying with other players for the different spots on the board. Abstract games. They're fine, but they're usually boring to me.
Speaker 2:No theme. What would be my favorite abstract game, Clayton?
Speaker 3:I don't even know if you've ever played one. I think Santorini you played once, is an abstract game yeah, chess Checkers, yeah, chess Checkers.
Speaker 2:What about the art game where you're slipping little arts into them, voting on them Canvas? That's like an auction game, I guess.
Speaker 3:Yeah, I wouldn't call that abstract. Okay.
Speaker 1:We did an episode a couple months back with Joe, back with uh joe from uh friendly b gaming, and we were talking about abstract games. Like what is an abstract game? You know? Like what defines an abstract game? I think it's a game that, oh yeah, bends the rules of gaming of like it's not like your traditional, do this on your chest. Like you have to think about it a little bit more. Chess you know, chess is one of the biggest abstract games you can play because you have it's easy to learn but it's hard to master and you have so many pieces, so many different ways, variations, different. There's no set traditional, you do this and this and this, and you know you do. On, you have to think, you have to deviate. Um, I think one, a good one, is azul azul's an uh, oh, yeah big after game um
Speaker 2:yeah, I didn't like that one Worker placement Go worker.
Speaker 1:Placement Harmonies I think Harmonies is a.
Speaker 3:That's definitely a little abstract.
Speaker 1:And I enjoyed Harmonies a lot, I think all games are abstracted in some form or fashion.
Speaker 3:It's just how deep does the abstraction go to where you can barely tell what you are doing as the theme of the game?
Speaker 1:So I agree, I agree. Yeah, I'll go more towards abstract, though I do like the difference, thinking yes Kind of way. And I'm a big chess guy. I love playing chess. That's one of my favorite board games to play. If I don't want to dive deep into, like other worlds of board gaming, I can just pull out some chess and play. I'll play, for sure. Shout out to you Mark Bates from our last episode. He created this crazy game called Sovereign Chess the wild way. I think it's going to revolutionize chess. How you play chess, different ways of playing chess Interesting, it's really fun.
Speaker 4:Vic, I have another game for your notebook. Okay, have you ever played Onitama?
Speaker 1:Oh, I've seen the box, but I've never gotten to try it.
Speaker 4:Yeah, so I talked about that last week on episode 33, and it's basically abstract chess where you are passing cards back and forth that limit the moves that your people can make, and it's 5v5 chess, super simplified, super easy to learn.
Speaker 1:Oh, I've played it. Yes, it's like a Japanese or Chinese like, yes, I've super easy to learn. Oh, I've played it, yes, yeah, you have it's like a japanese or chinese like yeah like yes, I've played that one and it was very interesting. Like the goal is to get, like you have to get, like your other piece to the other side, or something like that yeah, yeah, yeah.
Speaker 4:You either take their like master pawn or you uh take your master pawn and move it to their master pawn spot.
Speaker 1:Yeah, it's great I played that a long time ago, but I enjoyed it was fun. It was fun. It was very abstract-y, super abstract-y for sure Very cool. Am I the only one that's going to camp abstract? Travis, what do you think? Are you going engine building or going abstract?
Speaker 4:I think it was worker placement, I do have a fair amount of worker placement games but I think that I enjoy I might enjoy abstract a little more than Worker Placement Come on over, come on over. I love me some Everdell, I love me some Dune Imperium, I love me some Worker Placement, but I think the vast majority of my games are Abstract, abstract, more Abstract than not.
Speaker 1:Okay, okay, interesting. So two for Abstract and two for worker placement. Okay, not bad. Not bad, I mean, both are valid. Great games, I mean it's all, they're all great, they're all good, all these topics are all great. Anyway, we enjoy all the games. But, yeah, we gotta choose a camp. We're gonna go this camp for sure. Um, but that was a bonus question. We can get out back to our regular schedule programming here. Uh, number three here, guys, is do we prefer a tile placement board or a classic board? Do we like a game where we build the map ourselves, building it with tiles, or do we want just straight up, unfold it and place it down? Um, what do you guys think? Like the traditional classic board? Like you know, like nemesis, how the map just opens up, folded, or you get the mat, or, like you know.
Speaker 2:I was thinking I like building Ahoy. Have you ever played Ahoy? That's true, I love Ahoy. Like, as you're discovering you're going out, it's a pirate themed uh game and it's asymmetrical. So there's different characters and, okay, there's like two main pirates that are like fighting each other's. Like two main pirates that are like fighting each other. But then you have merchants that are just trying to deliver goods and they're like on boats and trying to go to different islands.
Speaker 2:And as you're like expanding out from the board, you're just placing these uh, two by two, shaped, um, like tiles, and that's how you're building the, the, the playing field, field, and so like. It's just really cool how every time it's it's new, it's different every single time that you you play, and it's randomized which tiles coming out. I really like that one. And then another pirate themed one dead reckoning. That one's not as like abstract, where it's just like it can expand out any direction. It's like very much three by four. But again, as you're discovering new islands, you flip over a new island. You're building the, the board as you go, okay, so I think that's fun. Uh, I wouldn't. I don't know if I like it more than a standard set of boom. There it is.
Speaker 1:Yeah, that's your map or your board. Yeah, okay, okay, okay.
Speaker 3:I think I think I like it more. I can say and I just played, I was I don't know why I couldn't think of it yesterday I was talking about ahoy. I'm like I just played a game where you're like discovering the map as you go and it was expeditions the other night. Yeah, you like start, you start like on a base camp and then you like as you move you flip over new tiles that give you new actions, and I like that. I think I like the variability and the randomness, that you can't really know what's out there and you have to adjust to it, because you play some of these games with a fixed map and you kind of know what's happening on the board. It really rewards people that really know the game really well and can do that oh, maybe even Lost Ruins.
Speaker 2:Arnak Jared, I was going to let you finish.
Speaker 1:I was going to go off on Arnak. Here we go the.
Speaker 2:Arnak ambassador. I've got Arnak down. I know which tiles there are and it comes to a point where, like, so many have been visible, or like different cards have made the tiles visible, where you're like all right, I know that there's a 25% chance the next tile that comes out I'm going to get a ruby. Or I'm going to get this and like, maybe I don't go there because that's not a good enough percentage to get that ruby, I'll just go for the sure bet ruby over here. I know it's crazy and stupid but, like, sometimes I make those decisions, especially on the very, very top row.
Speaker 2:If you're playing with a high player, count, like there's cards that let you visible, like show the top row. If you're playing with a high player, count, like there's cards that let you visible, like show the top row, get the resources, put it back on the bottom row. Like put it on the bottom so you might already know what the tiles are. They've been revealed already. So you're like okay, well, I'm not going to go there because I know what that tile is. But at the very beginning it's all random, it's all. You have no clue. You're taking a risk, you're going out on a limb.
Speaker 1:But arnak yeah chef's kiss my rebuttal for arnak, though, is the board. Is the board, though? That's that's the only randomness. The only randomness is just the, the, the temples and the creatures and you know things but the map itself it's but that's the important stuff, though.
Speaker 3:Like what's the board, it's just a place to reveal the locations. Right, that's true, but then I'll throw out this.
Speaker 1:Then I go more to higher places Betrayal House on the Hill You're building.
Speaker 4:Yes, yes, you're building that.
Speaker 1:You're building map's always different every single time you play, because you're building the tile placement and stuff like that. It's not a set boom here, it is.
Speaker 3:Here's the map, um so I think that's a more pure form of what you're talking about, but I do think there is a case for arnett to be thrown in the mix okay, vick Vik, have you ever played Ahoy?
Speaker 1:I haven't played Ahoy. I need to.
Speaker 3:It's from the Root team, the Root and Arcs.
Speaker 1:Really.
Speaker 3:It's from Leader Games.
Speaker 2:It's good it's got cards and dice Both.
Speaker 1:Oh set, we're done. Is it on?
Speaker 2:BGA.
Speaker 1:No, I wish we got TTS on there.
Speaker 4:Also, do yourself a favor and check out Beacon Patrol, if you like, revealing tiles. It is a game where you are sailing your ship around this archipelago of islands. That and Clay what was that one that we played? Land vs Sea, the two-player, where you're trying to complete those hexagon maps. Oh yeah, that one's cool. That one's cool.
Speaker 3:I'm not getting the vibe that anybody here is leaning team static map.
Speaker 1:No, or static board Nope.
Speaker 2:Yeah, I'm going towards team Okay but have you ever seen Camel Up? I mean that board is hot. I mean it's got the pop-up. Have you seen the pop-up? That thing is good.
Speaker 1:Everdell's got that good pop-up too, that tree, oh yeah.
Speaker 4:Yeah, sure sure.
Speaker 3:So Clay you going towards more traditional static plane, you're going also tile ish yeah, I think in any circumstance, if, if it incorporates something like that, like an exploration and discovering the board, I think it's more fun, okay, okay oh, yeah, yeah, I agree, like.
Speaker 1:I mean even like nemesis. We can look at nemesis. The ship's the same but the rooms are different every time. I guess that same argument with with our neck it's the same thing.
Speaker 1:You know our neck, you got that same thing, but it'll be different. It's static, you know. Um, so I guess that could be broken down. But what we mean is, yeah, maybe the the the board map itself will be same, static, but the tile placement of each room, or different, it'll be different. I think we all lean more towards that camp rather than monopoly, where it's just's just the main thing, that's the same thing.
Speaker 1:The orange you go around, you know, or I don't know what else, it has like a pretty static risk, I guess. Maybe it has like a same staticky-esque kind of risk. I mean, we love it, but it's still the same static, even like Machi Kodo. It's like just cards, just straight up. That's the map-ish, you know. But okay, okay, so we're going more team tile placement, map, world building than static, set in stone kind of thing, which is fine, okay, all right, here we go. This might get spicy, but I'm very curious to hear you guys on this one Question. Number four is do we prefer cooperative games or competitive games? Do you like a game where we work together to go against the board, or do you want to duke it out with each other and be the number one top board gamer of the game night. What do we think in here? I want to see some clay. I'm really I'm clay.
Speaker 3:I'm interested to hear your take oh, I'm not sure why, but I I'm, I'm team competitive, and not because I'm a competitive person that wants to win, it's because co-ops can just fall apart too easily. For me, it feels like between the issues with players that are quarterbacking the situation, telling everybody else what to do, you can just kind of feel left out of the game a little more. For sure.
Speaker 3:Which can be good depending on the group, but for me I feel like most of the time I just enjoy a competitive game where everybody can do their own thing and not have to. The freaking trying to like it's fun sometimes. But the constant like well, what do you want? Constant like well, what do you want to do? What do you want to do? I don't know what should I do here? What? Well, if I go there you hear like it just gets old to me after a while and I'm like let's just play the game. You know I I hate when things go on too long and co-op games tend to lean into that with with the constant trying to help each other out and figure out the optimal way to do things.
Speaker 4:This is a guy who plays Marvel United with his kids all the time.
Speaker 2:Yeah.
Speaker 3:That is true. I like playing that with them because they're the target audience. Being able to help them make decisions is appropriate for an eight and six year old, but I don't want to have to collaborate on decisions with a bunch of adults every time, every time we decide to make a move. Yeah, for sure.
Speaker 2:Yeah, I just think there's not enough, uh, co-op games. There's not as many co-op games as there is competitive ones. And, like I guess there's not as many co-op games as there is competitive ones, maybe I don't know that for a true statement, but there's not as many good ones that I can think of.
Speaker 2:Honestly, I love Wingspan. It's freaking awesome, not Wingspan. When you're trying to land the jet, oh, sky Team, sky Team. Why did I say Wingspan? Sky Team is freaking awesome. Like I, my heart races almost as much as um dune imperium. But like, let like, if you ever do the, the timed versions of that, yeah, they are intense in your decision making and also the shame based afterwards. When I was playing with tanner, he I mean he's going through pilot training, so obviously he takes a little more seriously than I do. Um, but like he loves that game and then I I also enjoy playing with him and like, if we win together, like that's, it makes the gaming experience that much better. That's the only co-op game that I'm super thrilled about, where I'm super thrilled about a whole bunch of other competitive games.
Speaker 3:I think Sky Team gets away with it because it doesn't have my biggest complaint, where you're actually not allowed to talk to each other, which is great. I don't want to talk to people during game night, I just want to heads down, stick to your thing, get in the zone. Yeah.
Speaker 1:We got time for chatter. We got points to win here. We don't got time for this.
Speaker 4:I've had such thematic game experiences with co-op you have, like your zombicides, where, like the zombie, horror is crushing in on you and you have to make tough decisions as a group on how to survive. You've got uh things like siege of rundar, which is that's coming sadly, sadly going to clay. But uh, the last time I played that, clay and I were playing together and it's a cooperative game where you're trying to dig out the tunnel to let your little goblin people escape while orcs are crawling over the walls. It came down to like literally the last card flip before we lost right. Like such thematic experiences come out of these cool, thematic cooperative games. We've played games of Marvel United where it comes down to the last card flip, right.
Speaker 4:Moments like that cannot be beat in a cooperative setting. One of my favorite games, marvel United I wish I could play that more cooperatively. I treat it largely as a solo game but when you play it cooperatively and you're playing off of one another strategically, such like amazing moments come out of that. But it's hard to compare cooperative and competitive when there's such an overwhelmingly large amount of competitive games that create just as thematic moments and just as hard-hitting impacting. You lay down that one card and you beat everybody else at the table. Nobody expected it. Those surprise moments are probably. They far outweigh those competitive moments. I agree.
Speaker 3:And the impact of those moments just feel so much greater than those cooperative moments Travis you've got me waffling now, because there is such a thrill, like that euphoria of a group that has conquered something together and like, similarly, like being able to commiserate when you just barely lost and, yeah, everybody went through the same thing um, I mean, those experiences are top tier. I just think it's too fragile. I, yeah, yeah, there's too many, too many times when it doesn't work.
Speaker 1:Yeah, yeah, no, for sure, I agree. I mean, I always say I love competitive and then, because I love being competitive and, and you know, challenging others and and fighting, but I also get I try not to say this, but deep down I always get a little too emotional. When it's like competitive and like they steal me, I'm just like I get mad. I'm just like, oh, my freak man like this, this guy just stole my spot. Man, like I'm just a piece of trash, like I get so mad and that ruins my, my train of thought. And then I'm like, okay, you know what? No, I'm gonna come back. And then somebody else does something else and ruins my whole synergy and I'm just like, dude, I hate. I'm like I hate this game so much, but I love that, I'm playing it. But the fact that I'm sucking right now and I'm like in last place and everyone's like popping off, like it pisses me off, but uh, so I get a little too emotional, uh, with those. But I love playing them, I love competing. Obviously, if you're winning, you're like I love this game. This game's amazing, I'm the best you know. I don't could be me, um, but I I think I agree with you, uh, travis, what you said about when it comes to cooperative, um, I think for me nothing beats that feeling of just like you guys work so hard, it came down to the wire and you finish it off zombie side. It came down to the wire, um, but we already beat it. Or if you lose, you're like, okay, we lost, but how do we lose? Okay, what's what's our? What's our next strategy, maybe for the next time? What should we do differently? What should we do? This? We all work together.
Speaker 1:Now again, clay with you with saying, yes, it could easily fall into like the whole quarterback situation where it's like, no, you, you, you, let's, you do this, let's do this, let's do that. I think the beauty of zombie side is you might have a quarterback where it's like, all right, hey, go check out that room, go check that, but then it's going to fall onto them with their dice rolls. What do you do? What do you do with your dice rolls? What do do you do with your actions? Okay, you did this. Oh crap, I forgot to do, or I didn't roll this high. Okay, let's re-evaluate what we got to do now, because now do we do this, so you can quarterback a little bit, but ultimately it's their turn to get the result.
Speaker 1:Not like, let me roll these dice for you, let me just figure this out for you. Going back, you know, going back to the top of my all-top, you know betrayal house on the hill. It's, you know, semi-cooperative um, but we're all working together figuring out what's going on. But then when the traders revealed now it's like 1v, you know many, you know um. So I lean more towards the cooperative side. I again I know they're very rare dime a dozen type of cooperative games.
Speaker 3:I mean, uh well, what you got clay, what you got here, yeah sorry, I don't know how long you have scheduled for this episode and we're probably talking more than you you anticipated no, but um all of it, let's go one more. I just another arrow to throw at co-ops that I don't because you guys got me kind of you guys you guys got me kind of excited about co-ops.
Speaker 3:Honestly, I okay okay, I flow with the wind, I get excited about things, but I remembered one thing that I didn't mention, that I don't like about co-ops. There's a lot of times, there's a lot of upkeep with co-ops where you have to manage zombies, you have to manage the villain, you have to do all these things in between every turn, that if you're playing other players against them, they're doing those things, but you're playing against the game and usually I'm the one that knows the rules, so I have to be managing all, managing all the extracurriculars that are happening, and so that that is another reason why co-ops I usually don't get them to the table that much for sure.
Speaker 1:No, I agree it's. I think it's also with the crew that you play with. You know, like, I think, if you, I think, I think my take on cooperative is I think a cooperative game is best played with hardcore board gamers, um, any new newbies or any people that are into gateway games. I don't think it's a great way, because then they just could be like I don't know what to do. But if you have like a, like a your set crew group, that's like all right, we know the rules, we know what to do. Let's all work together. Then you don't have to worry about the rules as much. Maybe you have to remind them a little bit about some things, but everyone knows what the role is and let's just play.
Speaker 1:A perfect example was when me and my cousins played Pandemic. We played it on the hardest difficulty Put in all those epidemic or pandemic cards in there, everything. But we all came together. We're like. We literally like. We're like. Every turn took us like 25 minutes just to talk like what we're gonna do, because my cousins oh my god, how?
Speaker 1:yeah, I know, yeah, I don't play like, oh geez uh, but all my cut like half my cousins are engineers, so we're all just like, literally just like optimize it yeah, optimize every turn.
Speaker 1:What do we do here? What do we do this? And literally came down to the last fight. We're like we knew the last card to draw was the pandemic, like an epidemic card, crazy card. But we're just like, okay, we know this is the last card, what do we do? And we survived. Um, and we beat on the hard difficulty again. Took us like three hours, but I enjoyed that moment because it's like, but that's like a crew, that's like everyone knew the role, everyone knew what to do. We weren't like how do you play this game, how do you do this role again? So it's like I think cooperative games are, yeah, meant for hardcore, hardcore gamers that you know know what to do. No, no, what a? What a euro is an american trash game? Or how to play. You know different types of synergies like that.
Speaker 2:Sorry, jay jared all good.
Speaker 1:But you're a hardcore gamer man, you know all the games, you know how to play it. So it's like you know, if I were to explain the rules to you you'd be able to run with it and continue on and stuff like that. Same with you guys, yeah. But all that to say, I think I'm more team cooperative. I like those moments. I like those moments of gratification that we, we beat it, or those moments of like we sucked, we failed, but how do we, how do we fix it? You know, I guess that's why I like you know.
Speaker 1:Back to video games, that's why I like the elton ring games, the from software games. They're hard as hell, but you know, I love the grind, I love figuring out how to. But then the satisfaction after you beat that boss, whatever, it's like oh, I'm the, I am him, I am him, I'm the one who can finish it up, you know. So it's like when you beat a board game, you know and like it's known for it to being hard, and you beat it and you played it correctly. Because sometimes you're like, oh, I think we missed a step, but you played it correctly. I think that satisfaction, I think outweighs more than competitive for me for sure, yeah, but that was my TED Talk on co-op games, so final verdict so, travis we're going more towards cooperative games, or I think I'm going competitive.
Speaker 4:I love me some cooperative games, but I think there's just too many great competitive experiences out there to outweigh the cooperative, okay, okay.
Speaker 1:And then Clay, we're going competitive as well.
Speaker 3:Yeah, you know I waffled a little bit with you guys. You guys got me kind of excited on the co-ops, but I'm sticking to competitive.
Speaker 1:Competitive okay.
Speaker 3:Jared competitive, all right.
Speaker 1:Okay, so we're rounding it off here with our last question here, which we might need to explain a little bit more to Jared what this question is. But we got Cleo and Travis here to explain it. But do you guys prefer Euro games or Mare Trash?
Speaker 3:games Travis, I'll let you you know explain.
Speaker 2:Euro is like Feast for Odin right Worker place gather resource type of stuff.
Speaker 4:Largely a active engine builder, where you are gathering resources through either input randomness or output randomness. Then you are taking those resources and exchanging them for upgrades that then make your engine more efficient. Later on you are exchanging resources for something that gets you an advantage, either in the score track or later on in the game.
Speaker 2:Why do Europeans only get to do that? Why can't I get to do that as an American? Because we're trash man.
Speaker 1:Yeah, we're trash.
Speaker 2:Well, it's American trash then.
Speaker 1:Yeah, American trash is more like thematic, more story-based games more Dice rolling. Dice rolling. Combat Combat yeah, Aggression yeah based games more dice rolling. Dice rolling combat aggression yeah, a lot of thematic theming, story, world building, maybe character progressions a little bit less of I think. I feel like less mechanics tapestry is very Euro.
Speaker 2:Then right, oh yes, oh yes, I like tapestry I think it feels like less mechanics. Tapestry is very Euro, then right, oh yes, oh yes, I like tapestry.
Speaker 4:Really, this is like theme versus mechanics yeah, pretty much. Yeah, More than anything.
Speaker 1:Yeah, so where do you guys go? What team are we going off here? To finish off the questions here Clay hit me.
Speaker 3:Do it. I'm definitely going with Ameritrash. It sucks because I don't play ameritrash pure games that often, like I'm thinking of, you know, onk, and well, that's not even that ameritrash. It's kind of more of like a chess like game, but you got big minis so it makes you feel like it's more Ameritrash-y. I don't know.
Speaker 2:Callisto 22,000?, 2,200?, 2,200. Oh yeah, I like that one Trash, just sounds so derogatory.
Speaker 3:I know right, I'm just yeah, I'm not the biggest pure Euro fan, they just it feels like work.
Speaker 4:I think it's meant to be like that, right, like, yeah, the europeans appreciate a good, efficient system. Where they're like I am exchanging resources for this advantage, like everything is transactional in a euro, whereas ameritrash you're like I'm gonna get my hands dirty, I'm gonna get my, my troops in this little region and I'm gonna battle it out. Like you're risking things. You're like you know advancing through, you know the cut of your jib versus exchanging these resources over a long period of time. Right, yeah, euro. There's a reason euros are largely brown and green themed, because it's all about like farming and building your homestead or building your industrial engine around the the crop yields, right, whereas Ameritrash can be anything you want, yep.
Speaker 1:I'm talking about like.
Speaker 4:You're unmatched. Right, You're unmatched. You're having Dracula fight the Raptors from Jurassic park. You're having the Frankenstein battle, Dr Strange or whatever, it is right. You have these exchanges where you're risking and you're moving and you're outmaneuvering. I'm a big theme guy. I love me some Western legends. I love me some Wonderland's War.
Speaker 2:Yeah, Wonderland's War, American trash.
Speaker 1:Yeah, that is united states trash right there man, that's super trash.
Speaker 4:I think, yeah, yeah okay and I think all I think all of my top five are quote-unquote ameri-trash games. I find that euro. If somebody says like we're gonna sit down and we're gonna play a euro game, my brain is like already turned off. Listen, I I can appreciate euro games and I and I appreciate building engines over a long period of time, like that. But when somebody says euro game, I'm like instantly just thinking I'm going to collect this wheat and I'm going to exchange it for this brick and I'm like and I don't mean strictly katan, I just mean like that's the exchanges I'm making in my mind. So, yeah, I I'm going ameritrash and theme and big moments, hard-hitting, impacting moments yes, mr wrecking, ralph, you know I'm a wrecking, you know that's right, I'm gonna wreck it.
Speaker 1:Yeah, it's gonna go hard on that, on the paint right there, for sure. No, yeah, okay, okay, okay. So we're going Ameritrash with Travis Clay. What do you think?
Speaker 3:Same thing, oh, yeah yep, yep, I'm there all the way. I don't mind Euro games. I played Agricola last night. I can get down and do what. I heard Jared throw slander at me in the last episode. I do the cool thing. So I'm like oh man, I know I already have enough sheep, but there's like three sheep over there. I need more sheep Instead of worrying about building out the rest of my farm.
Speaker 2:I am Euro, then I am Euro trash, then I guess Euro trash. Yeah, because I kicked these two dudes' ass on Agricola the other day. Not to bring up BGA or anything but Cough cough. I just had my little piggies. I had my sheeps. I fed all my farmers. They were very well fed. I went fishing and we had all the wheat and I had my farms full of pumpkins. It was perfect.
Speaker 2:I was like I hate a great travis was in the negatives, so it took me till like, like about four days into it, where I was like, wait, we have to feed these people. What the hell yeah?
Speaker 4:I'm paying every time I know it was tough guys.
Speaker 1:Oh my goodness mine, I'm gonna side with travis and clay. I love ameritrash, I love theming, I love big, I love go, go, go. I love. Just, we'll figure it out when we get there. We just do it. You know not, let's plan it out so we can have three moves ahead. You know not to not say that. You know euros aren't bad. I love playing euros, but I'm with you, travis, like I have to be in the mood to play a euro, like you know I have to be like you know I guess I could play in euro. Um, you know, uh, one of my, one of my, one of the sad boys, raul um, loves euros. He loves playing euros. Nucleam is his favorite game ever. Um, he loves playing nucleam. But I played that with him and I'm like bro.
Speaker 3:This game stresses me out bro, like I can't do anything in this game.
Speaker 1:He's like it just gets so perfect and I was like it's. I mean, it's all right, you know, overrated, maybe you know, but yeah, sorry roll. If you ever listen to this um, you know he's a big euro euro guy, he loves you and he's an engineer too, so that's why he loves, he loves make the connection I have, I have.
Speaker 4:I have a deep appreciation for people that play like 18 xx games, where they're like building the, their technology and their resources and their you know literacy, and they're like they're building this civilization from scratch, right, or I could sit down and play Civ 7 and have it all like the computer can do that all for me.
Speaker 4:And I don't have to spend 10 hours playing a board game right Like there's this disparity between the way that I can enjoy those systems and the way that I have to enjoy those systems in a board game format?
Speaker 1:I will say Civil Illusion is a great game. I enjoy Civil Illusion.
Speaker 3:I won't go near that with a 10-foot pole, really. I took one look at a playthrough of that game and I was like, oh my god, this is too much, they've gone too far I can't do it.
Speaker 1:That's surprising because it literally, like this, gives it, gives me, uh, castles of burgundy vibes. So much well same designer right yeah, so it's like oh man, I thought you would enjoy that game. I, I thought I would too.
Speaker 3:I was excited when I saw old civilization by stefan feld and then I opened I like youtube did how to play and I see, see the video's 90 minutes.
Speaker 1:I was like yeah, never mind, never mind, yeah, not going to happen. Yeah, it did take me like two days to play that game with Rural because I was like we're playing it and I'm like, hey, it's kind of it's like midnight, can we like just pause it and like come back to it next time Because I'm getting tired. And he's like, yeah, we can pause it. I'm like, all right, that's cool. So it took us two days to finish that game. It is a beefy game but I enjoyed it. It gave me again. It gave me Castle of Burgundy vibes. I was like, ooh, I dig it with the dice rolling, you knowatic Trash boys yeah we the trash gamers.
Speaker 3:Yeah, I still love you.
Speaker 1:You know it's all right, jared's like it just means I'm smarter than you guys when it comes to this.
Speaker 2:That's also true. That's also true.
Speaker 1:I'm not calculative, I'm thinking ahead, no for sure. So we got three for Ameritrash and one for Euro. Guys, again, in the comments, let us know what team you guys are on. I'd love to hear you guys's comments and start some debates in the comment section again, let's keep it civil, for sure. But, um, yeah, with with that. All that being said, that we finished off our questions. We had five questions and a bonus um, great answers, guys, it was great topics, great, you know, discussion, hearing you guys's thoughts on which side this or that of board gaming.
Speaker 1:I'll come up with some more questions that we can do. Another take again, because when it comes to board games, there's so much we can dive deep into. You guys are doing a great job on your podcast. I already dived deep into that, so I want to get in on this pond too, with you guys and talk more of this or that. Maybe we can even do some pet peeves. I think we can all agree. The pet peeve one is when people take too long under turns like let's, let's, let's, let's wrap that up, man, let's just let's keep going like you, vick, you need it, so I don't take it so damn long on your dgas.
Speaker 2:I was hoping you would. I was hoping you would call that me out. He called me. He's gotten better. He's gotten better.
Speaker 1:I've gotten better, I'm committed now, I, to test the waters. I had to see what it is if I liked it. But now it's like I'm coming for you. I'm coming for you, jared. Now let's go. I'll take down the lost rooms of our neck.
Speaker 2:Hey, how about we talk more pet peeves when we go live stream?
Speaker 1:Let's do it, let's go there.
Speaker 2:It is I like that, and Travis is moving on this side of the pond soon, so the time zones are going to work out better soon. Oh, yeah, yeah, we're talking offline about that.
Speaker 1:Yeah, so there we go. It'll be much better. We can get stuff rolling. Eventually in the future we can even do a live live board game.
Speaker 4:We can all meet up somewhere and do like a live.
Speaker 1:live, I'm already thinking about it.
Speaker 3:We let's do it.
Speaker 1:I've heard people, I've heard a group of friends where they're like they pick a state and they all meet up in that state okay, why don't we do that for board gaming?
Speaker 2:let's do that board gaming.
Speaker 1:There you go, just pick up a random stay and rent out a house airbnb and just live vick, vick, have you heard of the gamer ranch? Gamer ranch, gamer ranch, there's a gamer ranch. Yes, yeah, yes, a lot of the.
Speaker 4:We should do a big get together with all sorts of creators that are all contributing to one another I'm there get together and put some games you know, I, I love that idea.
Speaker 1:I think that's a brilliant idea. You know, uh, why? Why does gamer ranch get to have all the glory? We can create our own gamer ranch. That's right, our own thing so let's, let's right, so let's make it happen.
Speaker 1:You know, we got games too. We got games we love to play. But as we're ending this podcast, I'll just say guys, thank you guys so much for joining us on this podcast. You guys are awesome. I love just chatting with you guys and having fun board game talks, video game talks Pleasure to have you guys on here. You know, I always want to have you guys on there. I want to join your guys' pod one of these days. You know, what.
Speaker 3:Please Do it.
Speaker 1:Whenever you guys have me, let me know and I'll set it up. I'll be there with you guys, for sure. But anyway, guys, thank you guys so much for listening and for watching. For those of you that stuck around for this far, thank you again for listening. Let us know your thoughts on these questions. Do you want to add any more questions? Let us know.
Speaker 1:You can find us on all socials. We're on X, facebook, tiktok, instagram, youtube, spotify, apple Podcasts. You can watch, listen wherever you can Give us a follow on Instagram and give these guys a follow. Give Operation Game Night a follow. You guys can find them on YouTube, on Instagram, I don't think you guys are on TikTok. Are you guys out? Let them know, um that, how much you guys love them. Give them a follow, guys. They are awesome. You won't be sorry. They have great content. They have awesome take on certain games. That makes you think. I mean, it made me. It was one of your guys' episodes. It was awesome hearing you guys talk. I got to catch up. I will catch up, you know. But yeah, give them a follow. Give us a follow, guys. And thank you guys so much for listening Y nos vemos para la próxima.
