Make a Plan to Vote ft. Genny Castillo, Danielle Atkinson of Mothering Justice

On the season finale of She the People with Aimee Allison, we’re going to the people getting it done — from Michigan to Georgia. First, an interview with Aimee and Genny Castillo, principal of Estrella South Consulting, LLC and founder of ¡Vamos Georgia! Then in the second half you’ll hear Aimee’s conversation with Mothering Justice Founder and National Executive Director Danielle Atkinson. 

Discussed in this episode:

• The  Latina Futures 2050 Lab
• Some Bachata to dance to 
• Ballot Bash 

For an edited transcript, visit designobserver.com/shethepeople

Find Genny on Instagram

Find Danielle on Twitter and Instagram 

Find Aimee Allison on Instagram, She the People on Instagram, and Design Observer on Instagram. 

Transcript

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Aimee Allison: [00:00:01] Welcome to She the People with Aimee Allison, the home for women of color who are leading America into a new era. I'm Aimee, and we are only four days away from Election Day. And today we're going to hear from two amazing women who are working tirelessly in swing states to get as many people out to the polls as possible. First up, Genny Castillo, a prominent Latina organizer in Georgia who launched the statewide program ¡Vamos Georgia! focused on Latinx voter engagement. And then we'll hear my conversation with Danielle Atkinson, founding director of Mothering Justice, a national organization training the next generation of mother activists. She's based in Michigan. And as always, stick around for our Joyful Noise segment at the end.  [00:00:51][50.2]

One Arizona Organizer: [00:00:51] Almost 105,000 doors y'all! [00:00:51][0.0]

Aimee Allison: [00:01:05] Genny Castillo is principal of Estrella South Consulting LLC. She's a prominent Latina organizer and I know her from back in the day, still doing her thing. She launched a statewide program ¡Vamos Georgia! In coordination with her Latinx constituency director in the Dem Party of Georgia, focusing on Latinx engagement. Genny, you're awesome. I saw you on Latino Futures event. I had to ask you to come on to the podcast. I had no idea what was coming for us, but this morning is the day after we witnessed this spectacle in New York. The Trump campaign had an event that really mirrored KKK rallies in 1929, pro-Nazi rally in 1939. And I also, Genny, wanted to ask because we heard from speaker after speaker some of the most vile racist, anti-Latino, anti-Black poison that we have heard all election season. So how much of that did you watch? And can you just kind of lay it out for us? What what is all this about?  [00:02:23][77.9]

Genny Castillo: [00:02:23] Yeah. So what was crazy is that we had just had an event. I was volunteering for one of the Harris-Walz events for Latino outreach in Gwinnett County, one of our most diverse counties here in Georgia. And we were, like, so excited because we had just seen that Bad Bunny endorsed Kamala Harris. And we're like, whoa, he's never done that. And it was like, immediately we found out why. Right. And so I watched as much as I could stomach. But I think it's vitally important that folks who didn't watch it that you do watch it and that we hear the words that they said, it was vile. That is the right description. It was vile the way that the words are coming out just so naturally. And then this supposed comedian Killer Tony that he was supposed to be making a joke about Puerto Rico, about Latinos, about the Black man that was in the audience. It was vile and just absolutely exactly who they have been saying who they are. And they finally got it on tape. They finally have a face to what was saying all this. And what's crazy is a lot of people are like, he's calling Puerto Rico a trash, a trash can. But he said the same thing Trump himself just said a days ago about America in general. And so it's showing us exactly what they think of us as people, what they think of us as what they describe as unwanted. Because they said in the comments that we are as Latinos, we come here, we stay here, and they are not trying to welcome us with open arms. But this isn't yours to welcome us. I find it to be completely irresponsible of any person who is considering to cast their vote in a way that's going to believe that they care about us and they don't.  [00:04:15][111.2]

Aimee Allison: [00:04:15] No, no, no, no, no. Listen, I have so much fury. And yet there's a part of me today that's been taking a deep breath, Genny, and say, you know what? We we're we're in a defensive position to justify our humanity. Just a little over a week before the election. By the time people here this is just going to be a few days before the election. Is that the intention? Or is there something at play? Something else at play?  [00:04:45][29.8]

Genny Castillo: [00:04:46] Yeah. I mean, I think one of the things that we've noticed with their campaign has been they want to be talked about, right? So regardless of what they say, they are going to take up the new space. They're going to take our attention away. And I think that is why it's intentional that they do these things. They want us to just talk about them because a lot of people believe any press is good press. Right. And so I think for us as voters, for us, as organizers, for us on the ground, we need to say, you've seen it now. What are you going to do about it? We can't just keep harping on it because at the same time, that's what they want us to do. I think that's when we need to shift and say, this is what the Harris campaign is saying that they're going to do for us. This is how we're going to excel in the economy. Don't make it just one conversation because everything's interrelated, right? What's healthcare going to look like? What's recovery going to look like for all the communities that were affected by the hurricane and the more natural disasters that are coming? And I think this is what we need to do, push our candidates to talk about what they're going to do and not worry about the folks who keep talking about us in a way that they're showing that they're the trash that we need to take out.  [00:05:57][70.8]

Aimee Allison: [00:05:58] What would you tell women of color who are deeply and personally affected by the words the hate rally that was held at Madison Square Garden, do you have any words for us in this last bit of the campaign?  [00:06:13][15.6]

Genny Castillo: [00:06:14] We can acknowledge that they are saying some terrible things. Make sure that we're letting everybody know what they said, but let it not define us because we know who we are. And I think another part of that of being a woman of color, of being people who are identifying with such nationality, that we are all unified at the end of the day. Right? I am of Dominican descent, but my people are as Puerto Rican, as Dominican, as we are Mexican, as we are Colombian, that we are well-represented because we do have a shared culture. And I think that as we continue and make sure that we are getting out there, that we focus on our shared culture, but also identify and push back that anti-Black rhetoric is in every culture. And what are we doing to change that? That we also know that we are uplifting the great things that our women are doing, regardless of their background. And that we have allies in our white women who are going to support us in the work that we're doing because we can't do it by ourselves. Even though it feels like that, a lot of times we are in sometimes our own silos to say if we don't do it, it's not going to get done. But if we look around, we can always find our community, especially if we want to make sure that we're collaborating with other cultures as well.  [00:07:31][76.2]

Aimee Allison: [00:07:31] That's why I love and I feel like I needed to talk with you, Genny, because the idea that we can love each other and stand with each other.  [00:07:42][10.3]

Genny Castillo: [00:07:43] Absolutely.  [00:07:43][0.0]

Aimee Allison: [00:07:43] In the face of this these attacks. I saw you speak. I saw you do this remarkable job a few days ago at the Latina Futures 2050 lab. And I love that because it's about the futures. It's not about the history, only history, which is important. But the conversation was community power in the 2024 election. And I guess my question is to you first, thinking about Latinas now. Are Latinas finally getting their due in terms of the role Latinas are playing this year in the electorate, the role in Georgia and in other places.  [00:08:24][40.6]

Genny Castillo: [00:08:25] I think we are getting closer. I think one thing has been clear that we have seen the campaign have more Latinas in positions of decision making, which is incredibly important because you can hire a lot of people and a lot of people who identify as such. But if they don't have that decision making opportunity, then you're just hiring for the numbers. So I think it's been important to see that. But I do think that there's still conversations that kind of leave the Latina out of it. Right. Where are Latinas in terms of home ownership? Where are Latinas in terms of care providers in having to get opportunities to help fund some of that care? Where are Latinas in entrepreneurship? Right. We are one of the highest sets of people that are starting our own businesses, but yet we're not the ones having the conversations about how we can increase those businesses. Right? And so I think it's we're getting there, but we have so much more work to do to make sure that Latinas are actively sought out to help support this conversation and how we get our communities civically engaged because we've been doing it for many years almost in a silent way. So we need to be a little bit louder. Like J.Lo says, Let's get loud.  [00:09:42][76.8]

Aimee Allison: [00:09:45] Yeah. A little bit louder. And, you know, it might be news to some people that the state you work in Georgia, North Carolina, Pennsylvania, Arizona, for sure. Wisconsin, Michigan and all of the states, Latinas are going to be pivotal. How do you assess who can kind of what have you been engaged in on the ground? How do you assess your ability to through all the issues that you've mentioned and others bring Latinas, you know, to the polls?  [00:10:15][30.2]

Genny Castillo: [00:10:16] Yeah. So I think one of the biggest things is just having the conversation like so many people just don't know some of the general stuff. And so really making sure that I'm being active in trying to break this down. I'm a part of several Latina groups and really trying to make sure that our women are centered to it. And I actually started this in March, having the conversation, like the conversation just doesn't happen when you have Election Day looming. It starts before the primaries. It starts before folks are actively registering to vote. It starts with the legislature. And so I think it was super important for me to make sure I was having that discussion very early on and folks were like, thank you so much for giving me a chance to see what's happening at the Capitol, because a lot of times people think that voting starts with the president. And my friends, those who are listening, you will know and those who are listening for the first time. It starts with the local things that are happening in your community. And so being able to open that door back in March allowed us to have a lot of people signing up when July came about and we had a new candidate. Folks were calling me, How do I get involved? What do I do? I'm like, okay, we need to start conversations. We need to actually actively knock on doors. We need to make phone calls and really answer these questions. So we were able to activate folks right away because we were able to not just come to them when we needed them, but when we wanted to make sure that they were our part of the conversation. So it's been interesting to see how many people are like, I've not done this, this is my first time doing it, and we're like, Great, let's add some more time to that. If you knock on ten doors, let's knock on 20 more doors. If you made 500 phone calls, let's make 600 more. So really trying to help boost their understanding of this process, but not just it's an election and done. It's a process. After you see what's happening at the Capitol, you go into the election and then you see it again, what's happening once everybody gets elected.  [00:12:09][113.0]

Aimee Allison: [00:12:09] Just to share with folks. Latinas constitute 12% of all registered women voters in the U.S.. The growth of registered Latinas in the presidential election are significant. The nation's most populous state in California with 54 electoral votes, that's my home state, Latinas are 1 in 3 registered voters, and Texas isn't far along. And I read that your home state of Georgia has higher vote turnout than ever. How are Latinas doing in a state like Georgia?  [00:12:45][35.6]

Genny Castillo: [00:12:46] Yeah. So today we actually just had a conversation about the full Latino spectrum. About 22% of the early vote numbers are coming out as Latino centric. So I say that because there's a lot of things and a lot of reasons why some folks may not even be put down as Latino. Like actually, my the way that I'm registered, they don't they have me as non-Hispanic on my registration. Why?  [00:13:11][24.9]

Aimee Allison: [00:13:11] Why is that? Why does that happen? [00:13:12][1.0]

Genny Castillo: [00:13:13] I have I have no idea. And I've selected it. Trust and believe. And I've told them to change it. And I looked again. I was like so saying, non-Hispanic on there, that's different. So it could be just clerical errors. I say that very loosely, but I think a lot of people are more excited than they have been. I think too, in a weird way, having a shorter time with Harris at the top of the ticket has made it even more intense for folks to get involved because they're like, I don't want to miss this. And I think a lot of our nonprofits in C4 organizations are really trying to get folks to understand what this process looks like. We have 21 days of early voting in Georgia. And so that includes one Saturday two Saturdays and one Sunday. So I think a lot of folks are really just trying to pace themselves on when they can go vote. And I think a lot of folks may not still know that they have this last week. So we're trying to make sure that people know that this is their last week of early vote. They have until Friday to do it. So hopefully they'll be able to have more folks come out.  [00:14:22][69.0]

Aimee Allison: [00:14:22] People may not know, Genny, that. Early on in your career, you were a legislative aide for Stacey Abrams when she was minority leader in the Georgia House. You and I met during Stacey Abrams, really famous run for governor and all the struggles around there and had also known this way of interacting with community and building electoral strength, multiracially and reaching people over time, not just right before elections. That was something that Stacey Abrams made popular, but that had existed and been championed by women of color organizers like yourself. Do you find yourself thinking about the legacy that Stacey Abrams left for you and other people in Georgia?  [00:15:06][44.2]

Genny Castillo: [00:15:07] Oh my God. All the time. Like, literally every day. I tell everybody Stacey is my best friend. I am page 63 of her book. And so Lead from the Outside. Stacey Abrams is a visionary and we are so lucky to have have have her not only as a boss, but as a mentor and certainly as a friend and then as an idol. Honestly, like doing this work is not easy. And Stacey made it very clear that you cannot go to the next step without trying to develop those relationships with people early on in the communities, early on to be very mindful of where exactly we're going in the state. We weren't just staying in Atlanta, in the metro Atlanta area. We were going to very, very, very far places. Did you know that you could drive six whole hours from Atlanta and still be in Georgia? And there's still a lot of time to get to Florida. And so being intentional and making sure that we are always focused on the larger picture, which is the voter is why Stacey is so integral to everything that we've done. And I honestly can't thank her enough for having that vision because we've seen the results. We saw what 2020 did. We saw what the runoff happened in 2021. We've seen the results and we know that we can do really big things in 2024 because of her legacy and her continued legacy because she's still out there doing the work.  [00:16:29][81.2]

Aimee Allison: [00:16:29] You're like the next generation. Okay, because I'm about to turn 55 so I'm fully on the Gen-X thing. Holy crap. But this the next generation, these are these young women in Gen Z and Gen Alpha. They're ready.  [00:16:44][14.4]

Genny Castillo: [00:16:45] There's so ready. And that was also, I think, the part of legacy of working with Stacey because she literally was like, I want to pour into y'all so that we can pour into the next generation as well. So when they call me an OG, I'm like, I mean, I guess, but how can I give you the tools to make this happen? And so really seeing our young Latinas like really get into this space has been exciting. They have been incredibly active on the young Dems side, on the Democratic Party side. They are literally leading the charges right now. We are seeing it some of our undocumented community as well, getting well involved. Although they can't vote. They're like, listen, I know I can't vote, but I have to do this work so I can see the results that will come if we get all of our folks to get engaged.  [00:17:34][48.5]

Aimee Allison: [00:17:34] I think what you're saying about Latinas is like, I want everyone to understand how large of a group, how consequential of a group Latinas are and actually how diverse. You Dominican. We already talked about Puerto Ricans, Mexicans, people coming who's first generation. Tejanos who've been here for ten generations. You know, people from Central America. It goes on and on and on with such a diverse political grouping. What do you see as the biggest challenges in building power and kind of what people are facing right now?  [00:18:14][39.3]

Genny Castillo: [00:18:15] Yeah, I think because it is so diverse. There is a very clear thought that they say. And when I say "they", this is campaigns, nonprofit organizations, They're like, we're not a monolith. We're not a monolith. But then they do monolithic things. They start setting up conversations that look very much skewed to one population. And typically, it's mostly Mexican centric, which is a very different experience than me being a Dominican person. Right. I'm Dominican from New York, so I wasn't even born into Dominican Republic. Right. So that's a completely different expectation than somebody who was born in the motherland. And I feel like because they kind of rest on their laurels, they don't try to be creative with how they create the messages, right? So a lot of things I'll use one word "chingona", which I didn't know what it meant when I first heard it.  [00:19:12][57.9]

Aimee Allison: [00:19:12] And being on the Bay, of course I know. I was like, Well, I want to be a chingona.  [00:19:18][5.8]

Genny Castillo: [00:19:18] So when I first heard, I was like, Okay, y'all seem like you really like this word, so let's go with it, right? But then I'm like, but it doesn't really resonate with me, right? Because that's not how we talk. [00:19:29][10.8]

Aimee Allison: [00:19:30] It's a Chicano word isn't it?  [00:19:30][0.2]

Genny Castillo: [00:19:31] It is. It's like a Chicano Mexican word. And so it's so it's so different then when you're like, okay, but then somebody is like, okay, let's do "poderosas", which I'm like, that resonates with me. That means powerful, right? So I get it. I and I think that they need to be a little bit more open to celebrate these differences. I also told our nonprofits too, like, we can't keep doing Tacos to the Polls, y'all. Like it's not just tacos that people I mean, everybody loves a taco. Let's get really clear. Everybody loves it. But why don't we highlight some of the different foods across our Latino identity that folks can probably connect to, Right? Because papusas are super good.  [00:20:13][42.3]

Aimee Allison: [00:20:13] Super good.  [00:20:14][0.7]

Genny Castillo: [00:20:15] You know, saw like I think all the food. Yeah. Todos tiene que taki. And so I think it's super important for us to be mindful that when we use certain words we use certain experiences although we are unified. Don't get me wrong, I love my Mexican community. I love going to Mexico. I have been several times now, but I think that we lose a lot of folks who may not have that same experience. And so I think I challenge our community leaders to think, how can we be more celebratory of our differences and our Latino community and be mindful that not everybody has every single thing that's the same.  [00:20:54][39.2]

Aimee Allison: [00:20:55] I appreciate that so much. And it is a challenge for all of us in these political groupings. Look, use Black voters, for example, Black women. The Black political identity is, according to our pollsters, that we've been working with this cycle, more flattened. Right. White identity and Black more flattened. But it's still not. There's Black people in Georgia. There's immigrants from Nigeria, there's Afro-Latinos, there's Muslim Black people. There's people like me who's half my family is white. So there's a whole thing. There is Kamala Harris type, you know, we're Black plus, you know, we have a Black experience. And for us, when we have these groupings, including like each subgroup and women of color, I'm hoping that we grow into a future where we can understand and appreciate and expand the sense of belonging for people.  [00:21:56][61.0]

Genny Castillo: [00:21:56] No, absolutely. And I think, you know, to that point, because there's a big sentiment like, well, yeah, some of them are Black and Latino. I'm like, No, no, they're actually Black Latinos. There are actually white Latinos. There are actually Asian Latinos. Like these are identities that exist. And I think a lot of folks tend to be like, it's not the same. But that's the problem. That's where in lies the problem. We can have these discussions when people do identify that there are differences in these experiences and people should just be allowed to express what their identity is and bring them into whatever space they want to be.  [00:22:37][40.7]

Aimee Allison: [00:22:38] Yeah. And so back to this this hate rally. You know, yesterday in New York, I followed some local New York, you know, kind of influencers and local people who were showing a video of who was going into Madison Square Garden. There were Black and Latino people. I want to understand this because it always hurts when you have people who to whom you think are in the same group would have the same kind of ideology or interest back, be part of something that could be so hateful and so damaging. How do you understand it?  [00:23:17][38.5]

Genny Castillo: [00:23:17] Aimee, I've been trying to. I have been racking my brain to try to understand what is the pull? What I have come to, what I think is where I'm landing is that there's this opportunity for folks to understand where money comes into play. And I think for a long time, there's a lot of communities in our Black and brown communities that have felt that you need money to respond to things that are happening. So a lot of folks may have grown up in spaces that they don't own, property that they're from apartment to apartment, and they're like, If I only had a house, I'll be set. And so then you see this new generation that is able to afford homeownership, right? And they're like, Well, I can also buy stuff when I want something, I buy it. As opposed to us growing up, we can't buy nothing. They told us very clearly, you can't get nothing at the store. Don't even ask. And I feel like people have kind of put in their mind that if I can afford it, then I'm rich, right? And I think when they are compounding that, I can afford it. And the Trump conversation is I'm going to protect the rich. Like, well, that's me. I don't have any issues, so I'm going to be okay. So that's the only way I can describe it to try to understand how they are okay with the rhetoric that's coming out of there, because they are trying to separate themselves from the idea of what the Trump campaign is talking about. We don't want to trash. Well, I'm not trash, so he's not talking about me.  [00:24:50][92.9]

Aimee Allison: [00:24:50] He ain't talking about me.  [00:24:51][0.8]

Genny Castillo: [00:24:51] He can't be talking about me. We think they're all criminals and rapists. He's not talking about me.  [00:24:58][6.9]

Aimee Allison: [00:24:59] It's them over there.  [00:25:00][0.8]

Genny Castillo: [00:25:01] It's them. I have money. I'm like, you ain't got no money. You don't got no money. If things were to happen, you would not be able to survive. And that's the problem.  [00:25:10][9.8]

Aimee Allison: [00:25:11] You said something in passing that I think is worth repeating is something that, you know, will we need to continue grappling with, which is that understanding a group in the electorate. And let's just talk about Latinas for a minute or Latinos for a minute. Some people identify as white, racially white in the U.S.. Whiteness is the system is the, you know, kind of the whole system was built for that. Nobody wants to be on the outs. If you want to identify with the power, they want to identify with, you know, being white. And we have to deal with anti-Blackness and anti-Indigenous sentiment across groups of color. We have to. We have to. And I think this is it's kind of like I was reflecting on this, Genny, as we, you know, kind of wrap up our conversation, I've been really reflecting on the last ten years of of this work both you and I have been engaged in. And like we had this dream. You in the South, me, you know, this dream that we can come together and really bring the country into this new era, this new possibility, and it's right before us. Are you feeling joyful right now? I mean, it's a hard it's a hard question after yesterday. What's bringing you joy? [00:26:41][90.3]

Genny Castillo: [00:26:43] Yeah, I mean, honestly, it is one of those things that is like, oh we're so excited! And then they drop something. And I'm like, okay, we just got to keep going, okay? Because a lot of hard things are going to continue to happen all the time and that is what our resiliency looks like. We are people of joy. I mean, we have a genre and Dominican culture is called Bachata. This is like the saddest songs that you can find, but everybody's always dancing to that, right? Because they are a representation of all the feelings that you can have. And I think that's what this election cycle is. Like, I am excited. Like, the fact is that we have not had so many people so excited for an election in a very long time. We have to recognize that women are out here deciding to run regardless of how they think that they may or may not win or the fact that it could be scary. Like, that's where the joy comes in, like women are coming through. It's so critical to the work that we do to continue that, right? Because we've been doing it really continuingly because we believe in hope, right? In that hope of something to change. Because regardless, things will change. Sometimes change is slow, but it is going to happen. And I think that's what keeps us going knowing that change will happen eventually. And so I'm very excited. I voted last week. I got my family to vote. I got my friends to vote. And every time I talk to people like, what's your plan? When are you going to do it? I was just talking to a gentleman yesterday. He's like, I'm going on Tuesdays. That great. What time? He goes, after work. I was like, wonderful after work. And then what are you going to do? Like, let them get into that conversation with me? Because we definitely want to make sure that when we're happy, other people use that happiness to do and make good decisions.  [00:28:33][110.0]

Aimee Allison: [00:28:34] Bless you for everything you do and have done and are for the great state of Georgia, for the country. Genny Castillo, you are amazing. Actually, you're filling me with joy. Okay, Give me one of the songs because we're going to play that song.  [00:28:49][14.8]

Genny Castillo: [00:28:56] Oh one of the Bachata songs? Oh my God! El Amor de Mi VidaI think that was a good one.  [00:28:58][1.7]

Aimee Allison: [00:29:01] It's like we feel love. We feel pain.  [00:29:01][0.8]

Genny Castillo: [00:29:02] We feel life, yes! [00:29:03][1.0]

Aimee Allison: [00:29:05] But, we're living the he hell out of life and let's live it! And also make our voting plan. I love that.  [00:29:09][4.7]

Genny Castillo: [00:29:10] Yes, make our voting plans is so important and tell your people to make a plan every person. Listen, I will text somebody who I had gone on dates with two years ago and I will text them, did you make a plan?  [00:29:25][15.0]

Aimee Allison: [00:29:26] No shame in that game.  [00:29:26][0.9]

Genny Castillo: [00:29:27] No shame. If they are in your phone, text them today. If they can vote, tell them to and tell them how. Don't be ashamed of letting people know how to get there because we need to make sure we we do it. And sometimes sometimes it's because people just ask. That's why they voted and that's why it's super important. That's what we have to do.  [00:29:47][20.5]

Aimee Allison: [00:29:48] So everybody who's listening to Genny and who's listening to me, Aimee, we are asking you to vote now and get your friends and family. Genny, thank you so much. I appreciate you. And I'll see you on the other side.  [00:30:02][13.7]

Genny Castillo: [00:30:02] Yes, ma'am. Have a good day. I'll see you soon, Aimee .  [00:30:05][2.6]

Juan Luis Guerra: [00:30:05] [Burbujas de Amor plays] [00:30:05][0.0]

Aimee Allison: [00:30:49] Danielle Atkinson is founding director of Mothering Justice and Mothering Justice Action Fund. And to date, Mothering Justice has reached more than 500,000 moms in a voter engagement effort and has drafted the "Mama's Agenda", which you're going to hear about in a moment. She and her team are currently doorknocking, phone calling, and they plan to engage 50,000 women of color voters in Michigan right before the election. We're so excited to have her here today on She the People? Welcome, Danielle Atkinson.  [00:31:19][30.1]

Danielle Atkinson: [00:31:20] Yeah. Thanks for having me.  [00:31:21][1.2]

Aimee Allison: [00:31:22] I'm happy to see you. I think the last time we saw each other was at a conference in some other city about a year ago.  [00:31:28][6.2]

Danielle Atkinson: [00:31:28] Yeah.  [00:31:28][0.0]

Aimee Allison: [00:31:29] And now here we are.  [00:31:30][0.8]

Danielle Atkinson: [00:31:31] Life was different.  [00:31:31][0.5]

Aimee Allison: [00:31:32] Life was completely different. You live in Michigan. Michigan, the whole country's eyes are on Michigan. Yeah. So I'm just so happy to talk about this. Your state is an important swing state in the last days leading up to the election. I'm so happy to talk about your work. And maybe we should just start by talking about how you're assessing the landscape in Michigan. Here's what I know and you tell me what we also need to understand. Michigan is highly contested. Michigan has a governor, Gretchen Whitmer, and some Democrats who are making sure that there's not a lot of voter suppression happening in the state. And yet Michigan's a place where the uncommitted movement had many, many people refusing to vote for Democrats amongst people who were upset at the policy with Israel and Palestine. And so there there's that group of voters there, lot of Black voters, a lot of brown voters. So, you know, tell us, first of all, kind of where does Michigan stand?  [00:32:40][67.8]

Danielle Atkinson: [00:32:41] Wow, that's a loaded question.  [00:32:42][1.8]

Aimee Allison: [00:32:44] It's a lot. It's a lot. But just help us to understand.  [00:32:46][2.1]

Danielle Atkinson: [00:32:47] So Michigan is, you know, the home of the labor movement. We have a lot of policies, laws, procedures that really under undercut and and really highlight what it means to have policies that are for workers and families. At the same time, we have a lot of people that are hurting for a variety of reasons. You named a few and then we're in such a unique time in history as far as international politics and in such a unique election where we have someone who represents the establishment, the incumbency, trying to differentiate herself and her policies from her predecessor, which is the current administration. We have a Democratic trifecta. We are led by three women, and then we have the first ever Black man, speaker of the House in the legislature. So we have a lot of progressive things. And we and we also passed reproductive freedoms around abortion access and protections for those. But again, large amounts of poverty. We have a very rural portion of our state that a lot of people don't think about when they think about Michigan. And then we have a large Arab-American community that is hurting with what is going on in the Middle East on a daily basis. You will talk to someone who is is affected directly by what is happening there. They're losing loved ones daily and watching, watching their family be devastated. So we have so many dynamics. And so right now, the polls will show you that we're 50-50 and there's a lot of activity on the ground. And you have a lot of groups that are doing three things simultaneously, they are doing get out the vote work, they are doing election protection work, which is making sure that everyone is eligible and and knows their rights when they go to the polls. We have early voting going on, so it's from now till November. And then we have election protection efforts that are starting, which is really getting ready for what we saw in 2020 with a lot of people trying to interrupt, interrupt the counting and the certification of the election. So we are gearing up and getting ready for for people to try to undermine democracy.  [00:35:21][153.7]

Aimee Allison: [00:35:22] I'm thinking back to 2020. We met about that time, the last big election where, you know, what happened in Michigan last election? The dynamics, as we've been talking about, have shifted. And what do you think it's going to take for Michigan to be on the Democratic column as opposed to going with Trump?  [00:35:45][23.2]

Danielle Atkinson: [00:35:46] Well, we every year we get deeper and deeper into misinformation and disinformation. And so it's harder and harder to convey a message that, you know, is truthful and get to people. But when we talk to people about the issues that are affecting their lives directly, it's it's a it's a sharp contrast with who they will support. Some groups have reported, you know, a 30% swing when we're talking about care issues and and we had similar results in a recent poll. So it's really about getting to people and the people who need to get to them need to be trusted messengers. You know, I was out of state, I was in the Caribbean and we were picking up Florida Florida News. And it was around the August election, the primary. And the ads were just first of all, they were constant, but they were very confusing even to someone who has only done this work. Right. This is literally the only job I've ever had. And I was confused by the issues. And I know that I would need someone who I. Just to explain what it meant, what the propositions meant, what the, you know, what the candidates stood for and whether or not they were they were in my best interest because that's where we are right now. There's so much information and so much of it is untrue that people really need to be talked to personally by someone they trust.  [00:37:14][87.8]

Aimee Allison: [00:37:14] So what is this Mom's Agenda that you've been building?  [00:37:17][2.8]

Danielle Atkinson: [00:37:18] Yeah.  [00:37:18][0.0]

Aimee Allison: [00:37:18] You know, when you think of how to reach people, you know, what are the top lines of that agenda and how is it playing into the messaging that you're doing on the ground right now during the election?  [00:37:29][11.2]

Danielle Atkinson: [00:37:30] Yeah. So what we have is called the Mama's Agenda, and we established it in concert with moms, talking to them about issues of financial stability, what was affecting their pocketbook and what they cared about and their values. And, you know, we established it about 12 years ago and we've had some wins. But in a nutshell, it is paid leave, both paid family medical leave and paid sick days, affordable child care, basic needs, maternal justice and wages. And so we've won on leave issues in the state and wages in the state. And what we found with the moms agenda when we talked to people, you know, when we turn on the news, what we hear is the number one issue is the economy. But when you break down what an economy is and what it means to individual people, you get vastly different answers. And when you talk to people about their pocketbook issues, what keeps you up at night? What is preventing you from from trying something new, from trying a new job or or going back to school? What they talk about is the things that make it harder for them to care for their loved ones. They you know, we have right now a large sandwich population that refers to people that are caring for young children, but also elderly people in their family and communities. When you talk about paid leave, elder care, these are really, really expensive things that don't get a lot of talking and don't get a lot of airtime. And so, you know, we need candidates that are talking about these issues that are fundamental to how we live and other organizations as we are born to care. And that's what we're here to do, right? Care for ourselves and care for the people that depend on us. And we need policies that support that.  [00:39:14][104.2]

Aimee Allison: [00:39:15] You know, I was just thinking about when Kamala Harris became the presidential candidate, I noticed and I wanted to get your take on it, a marked difference in talking about care and issues around child care, issues around elder care. Has that really made a difference in terms of, you know, hearing her talk a little bit more about those things? [00:39:36][21.3]

Danielle Atkinson: [00:39:37] Yeah, I think what made the difference is being able to see someone. Right. Who is someone who is an active step parent who who saw her mother through the end of her life. And it just comes easier, apparently, when you hear a woman talking about those issues because, you know, President Biden had his fair share of of of issues, health issues and care issues. But when a woman is talking about it, it's a little different. And then when that woman has a microphone and then when that woman is in power, apparently, then we can we can say that they are legitimate. And so, yeah, I think people really felt comforted by the fact that she understood what it meant and that it wasn't a personal flaw that I can't afford childcare. Right. That's another that's a huge thing.  [00:40:28][50.8]

Aimee Allison: [00:40:28] I did want to go just a little bit more into Kamala Harris's proposals. She talked about Medicare covering some elder care costs, which I which I hadn't heard before. You know, and given that I have a father who's elderly and is sick, I think about what it would mean for the government to actually help more with some of the, was an in-home care that she was suggesting? [00:40:54][26.2]

Danielle Atkinson: [00:40:55] Yes. Which is there's so many things about that proposal that really speak to an understanding of how we live and how we care. Right. We know that there is dignity in being able to stay in your home. And also, there's a cost savings for everyone. We know that women are more likely to be living in poverty in their elder years because of equal pay and then also how much they give to care. So there's that understanding and understanding that of the Sandwich Generation who is spending exorbitant amount of money caring for their loved ones and unfortunately having to think about how much longer they will have to do that, which means they're thinking about how much longer their loved ones will be here in a financial lens as opposed to any other lens, which is really sad that we're there.  [00:41:48][52.7]

Aimee Allison: [00:41:48] I want to talk about you for a minute. You were saying this is the only job I ever had.  [00:41:51][3.0]

Danielle Atkinson: [00:41:52] Yeah.  [00:41:52][0.0]

Aimee Allison: [00:41:53] Was it as a young mom that you started mothering justice? As a frame? You know, you know, we're we're moms and we want to build political power from a perspective. Was it was it your personal experience that led you to that or? [00:42:06][12.8]

Danielle Atkinson: [00:42:06] Yeah. So I have worked in electoral organizing, community organizing since I graduated from college and actually before that. And I was interviewing for a job. And in the middle of the interview process is when I found out I was pregnant. And then so I decided to hide my pregnancy because who wants to hire a 27 year old who's about to have this life changing experience? And I got the job. And then I was like, I'm so relieved. And then I was like, shoot, I can't afford childcare. And actually, this job doesn't allow me any paid leave. And this was my dream job. This was the job I wanted to do and and to know that I had my dream job and it still wouldn't guarantee me what I needed to care for the child that I was really excited about. Bringing in this world made me go back to the drawing board, made me go look for an organization that that was working on these issues. And what I found were organizations that didn't represent me as an individual, as a Black woman, as a child of immigrants. And, you know, it made me think about and I remembered all the tables I had sat at and people who share my political beliefs who were like, you know what? We just can't put a Black mom's face on that. That would be really detrimental to our cause. And these are well-intended people, people I agree with politically. But I said, you know what? It's time to change the page.  [00:43:33][87.0]

Aimee Allison: [00:43:34] How many times as Black women have we heard something from a quote unquote, well-intended? I mean, can you unpack can you unpack that a little bit? Like hearing that?  [00:43:44][10.1]

Danielle Atkinson: [00:43:44] Yeah. So, so many issues that progressives believe in. They also don't want to confront racism. And so when we talk about social safety net programs, when we talk about the affordability of something and bringing that to the public, we want to make sure that it's wrapped up in a package that people will will accept. And we accept this narrative that you have to be deserving of these issues and deserving of these programs. And then with that, there are people that don't deserve them. Right? And that's where we come in. That's where racism comes into play. And it's so Black women there. You know, the narrative, the prevailing narratives is that they are taking advantage of these programs, that they don't want to work that caring. They just sit around and have children, basically. And so instead of confronting that narrative as false, instead of speaking the truth about what Black women in particular, have given to this country. We just accept it and say, okay, well, if we put a white face on it, then maybe we can talk about it and people will listen knowing that people still have racist ideas and we really need to unpack that.  [00:44:52][67.5]

Aimee Allison: [00:44:52] I mean, it's not just advocacy. This is also public policy, right? I'm sure that you've confronted that when you go to D.C. and you're you're saying we actually need to change our practices, we need to change our policies, when you're confronted with the same kinds of blindness, the same kind of poison that's preventing us from getting our needs met as a community.  [00:45:13][20.4]

Danielle Atkinson: [00:45:14] Exactly. Exactly. And being a detriment to our entire society. Because maybe, you know, Black women, women of color are the canary in the coal mine or they're the scapegoat. But we know that these issues go far beyond our community to an entire country. And unfortunately, if we don't confront them, if we don't have public policy that really addresses the issues that are systemic, we are doomed to be a country that's not living up to its potential. And so that's what Mothering Justice is about. It's about empowering people. It's about really talking about these issues. It's about bringing joy back to activism and saying, you know, we know that this is your family and it's and you're having you know, this is a joyful decision. It's a joyful community. Let's bring that back to advocacy.  [00:46:04][50.3]

Aimee Allison: [00:46:05] How do we bring joy into advocacy? Even the word advocacy, I think about lots of things that aren't quite so joyful. I just, you know, how do you how do you bring the joy back? I mean, that's that was so much a part of the promise of this election cycle once Kamala Harris had joined, is that we could have the joy. But it's it's more than just one person running for one office.  [00:46:24][19.6]

Danielle Atkinson: [00:46:25] Well, one, it's about hope. Right? And, you know, sometimes we think that's trite, but believing that our greatest days are ahead of us, that we can create something better, that we're not locked into policies that don't work for us, that we are the government and we can represent ourselves better. That is joyous. Really letting people know and affirming their wisdom because they have a lived experience affirming them as people and as caregivers and as the stewards of this country is joyful. And then we laugh a lot, right? We have a great time. We're about to have this event on Thursday called Ballot Bash, where we dress up, we talk about the issues, of course, we talk about what needs to get done. But we have fun.  [00:47:13][48.1]

Aimee Allison: [00:47:14] Wait, you're dressing up and you have your ballots there? What is that?  [00:47:17][3.0]

Danielle Atkinson: [00:47:18] Yes. Yes. So it's called Ballot Bash. It's just a big party. You can bring your ballots and there is a help desk. So, you know, you need any explanation as to what races and what proposals and villages, that's there. And we have opportunities for people to volunteer. But also we dance and we eat good food and we have people creating art there because that's what it's about. Because without the joy, what are we working for basically, right? We're working for community and time to have fun and time with our friends and family. And so we just create that and insert that in everything we do so that we are not just working for the future. We are also enjoying the presence, the present. You know, a lot of these I tell the organizers at Mothering Justice all the time that what we're asking for people is to invest in a future that they might not even see like we're working for, to transform the child care system. We might not see that, you know, we're asking people to invest their time. We got to make it fun. We got to make the present as great as we want the future to be. [00:48:25][67.6]

Aimee Allison: [00:48:26] Well that sounds like it's spoken with the mother's heart.  [00:48:27][1.1]

Danielle Atkinson: [00:48:28] I try.  [00:48:28][0.2]

Aimee Allison: [00:48:29] Tell me a little about your organizing. It's really like your organizing strategy, but your personal philosophy around solidarity. I mean, you've spoken, you spoken of issues that unite different people. But talk to me more about how organizing around different races, different backgrounds has been has influenced your way of working and being in the world.  [00:48:53][24.4]

Danielle Atkinson: [00:48:54] Yeah. So I am a child of immigrants. I was raised in Connecticut and then my my mother moved us to Florida after her divorce and I went to school in North Carolina. So I've been around a lot of different people. And so that really has opened my eyes to one, always being the outsider and always also just looking at other people and being a real observer. And I know that people at their core want to work together. They want to be a part of a group and they want to be on the right side of history. And so when we talk to people about that and we bring them in around their values and their lived experience, they feel affirmed and they want to work together. Instead of talking at people, we talk with people. Instead of having an agenda that is created, we co-create. We don't move without our membership and our membership doesn't move without their communities. So you can't come in to Michigan and say, this is what I want to do or this is what's going to fix it. Because Michiganders will tell you about yourself first and then kick it out. When we go to another place, when we go to a new place, we sit down with community and say, hey, what's being what's happening? What's being organized? And then how can we fit in? And do you want us here?  [00:50:20][86.7]

Aimee Allison: [00:50:21] You have shepherded Mothering Justice and advocating, I think, successfully, to the fact that Kamala Harris's campaign has picked up on the, you know, these care proposals around child care, around elder care, is a testament to your the success of your your work and advocacy all these years. And I just you know, what's next?Because the thing about you, Danielle, is that you've got incredible vision. You've had to hold on to that vision, but you've got incredible vision. So let's let's hear what you see.  [00:50:54][32.5]

Danielle Atkinson: [00:50:54] What is next for this country? We have a reckoning, right? No matter what happens with this election, it is going to be a test of who we are as a people, who we are, what we want to be, where we want to go. We have a ticking time bomb when it comes to the climate crisis, when it comes to investing in our people. We have such a large stratification of wealth in this country. And we also have an economy that is changing rapidly as we introduce AI. And so whether or not we're going to be a people that cling to a past, an ideology that doesn't serve us. Or are we going to innovate and evolve and and realize our potential? That is what is next. And I'm as curious as you are to see what's going to happen. But I believe that for people that do work similar to the work of Mothering Justice, we have to build our political homes for the ever increasing amount of deceit and misinformation. People have to be able to turn to an organization or an entity for the truth. And so we have to be robust in our beliefs and our visibility so that people can have those assurances, because we know that the majority of folks have never agreed with Donald Trump. Right. We know he's he's never won the popular vote, which means the majority of Americans want a different way. And so it's about time we fix those mechanisms and that we are able to mobilize in a way that secures we never have somebody in office that doesn't represent the majority of people.  [00:52:43][109.1]

Aimee Allison: [00:52:43] We talked a little bit about joy. We're so committed to joy here on this podcast, and I'm sure everybody who's listening needs a shot of joy between the doomscrolling and the poll watching, which, by the way, polls are under sample Black and brown women, so take them with a grain of salt. Hand wringing and general anticipation about what is coming up for the U.S.. So, Danielle, what's bringing you Joy?  [00:53:09][25.5]

Danielle Atkinson: [00:53:10] I find joy every single day. I take time for myself. I often I'm like, well, you know what? I'm going to be cute on Inauguration Day. So I get to the gym four times a week. I never miss a concert that my children perform in. I do a lot of traveling. I travel maybe 2 to 2 and a half weeks out of the month. But it's never on a day that my kids are performing. So I see every one of them. And I enjoy the sun. So I enjoy every warm day that I have left in in fall in Michigan and get ready for the winter. But yeah, just little things because that's what we have left is the little things, the small joys. Being able to bring other people joy.  [00:53:56][46.0]

Aimee Allison: [00:53:56] That's it. Danielle, you are a bright light. Thanks for everything that you do. We appreciate you. And thank you so much for spending some time in the last days of the election here on the She the People podcast. We really appreciate you.  [00:54:09][12.5]

Danielle Atkinson: [00:54:09] Thanks so much, Aimee. It's always a pleasure.  [00:54:10][1.2]

Aimee Allison: [00:54:26] As always, here's Joyful Noise, this time from several states around the country. As we know, early voting has started. And as of October 28th, 44 million Americans have voted early, in-person or by mail. And by the way, Election Day is not just one day. It's now.  [00:54:44][17.9]

Seed the Vote Organizers: [00:54:45] Why are you walking today? So I can meet people like the woman I met, Kailyn. She's 19. She's not voted before, and she wasn't sure she was going to vote. And then after our conversation, she's decided to vote with us. Awesome. Yes.  [00:54:57][12.6]

One Arizona Organizer: [00:55:00] Almost 105,000 doors, y'all!  [00:55:01][0.1]

MsLatoshaBrown on Instagram: [00:55:01] Who should we vote for, Mekhi? Ms. Harris! Ms. Harris! Kamala Harris! [00:55:03][2.5]

Aimee Allison: [00:55:17] And this episode is the last of our five episode season of She the People. And I just want to thank you. Thank you for being here. It has been wonderful to partner with Design Observer. It's been amazing to bring women of color onto the show and to be here in this historic moment. No matter what happens, you cannot argue how women of color have been so critical in creating the possibilities for this entire country. Thanks so much for joining us today. And remember your vision, your spirit, your work matters not just to you and your family, but to our whole nation. Keep going. We need you. And we need each other.  [00:56:02][44.6]

Aimee Allison: [00:00:00] She the People with Aimee Allison is produced in collaboration with Design Observer. For more information about us and our guest plus a full transcript of the episode check out our website at design observer dot com slash she the people. And spread the joy make sure you’re subscribed to She the People with Aimee Allison on the podcatcher of your choice and share this episode with your friends. And don’t forget to tag at Design Observer and at underscore She the People on whatever social media platform you’re on. “She the People” is a registered trademark of Amiee Allison. Thanks to Ruth Ann Harnish, Susan McPherson, Susan Sawyers, and Jonathan Speed for providing critical funding or other resources. For guidance and essential insights, we are deeply grateful to David Kyuman Kim, Alvin B. TIllery Jr., Bernicestine McLeod, Kevin Bethune, and the entire Design Observer and She The People community. Aviva Jaye wrote the theme music for the show. Justin D Wright of Seaplane Armada mixed the show. She the People with Aimee Allison is produced by Alexis Haut and Adina Karp. [00:00:00][0.0]

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