Sarah Wood, Susan B. Anthony, and Women's Rights

In this Hello Moxie episode, Nicole Donnelly sits down with Sarah Wood to celebrate the incredible women who've shaped our world. From the fierce suffragists like Susan B. Anthony to modern changemakers like Lilly Ledbetter, we're getting into the stories that remind us how one voice can transform generations. 

Sarah brings her communications expertise and passion to share how personal stories create massive change, why understanding our history matters, and how both women and men can be champions of equality. 

Get ready for a conversation that's part history lesson, part inspiration, and a journey that will connect you to something profound, bridging history and hope in a way that ignites your own potential.

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Transcript

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You're listening to Hello Moxie with Nicole Donnelly. In each episode, we honor the unbreakable thread that connects the fierce women who came before us to modern day pioneers carving their own paths. We'll share stories of unforgettable heroines, celebrate their courage, and bring to light the lasting impact they've had across generations. Get inspired by the stories of those who embodied true Moxie and pave the way for others to follow. Hello Moxie is sponsored by DMG Digital.

a woman-owned marketing consultancy dedicated to helping B2B companies and e-commerce brands create exceptional customer experiences. Hello and welcome to another episode of Hello Moxie. I am delighted to be joined today by Sarah Wood. Sarah owns a boutique communications agency here in Virginia. And I am just so excited to have her come and share.

the women in history that she loves and is inspired by. Sarah, tell our audience a little bit about you and your background and what do you want to share today? Hi, Nicole. First, I just want to say thank you for having me on. I think this is such a great topic for a podcast because there are so many inspiring women currently and throughout history that are great to talk about. And some of them are not as well known and really need to have their stories showcased.

As you said, I do own a boutique communication agency. I'm in Northern Virginia, but I work with purpose-driven organizations throughout the United States, and I help them tell their stories. I illuminate them and shine a light on the good work that they are doing and help them continue to do it. And I say, like, I am not a nonprofit, but I work with a lot of nonprofits and try to aim to work with clients that are trying to make the world a better place.

share the stories of their good work. And then in my real life, I am a solo mom by choice to two amazing little humans who take up pretty much all of my time and energy. And one of these days I'm hoping to actually get fluent in Spanish instead of just talking about it. And I want to take some cake decorating classes, which I am not super artistic and things that are very detailed are hard for me. But you know what?

I think it's about time for me to stop veering away from things that are hard for me. And getting acknowledged, like it's okay to not be good at something and to actually like work through that process. That is so beautiful. I have to tell you, I've had a similar experience with painting. So I have always just never liked to paint. And my mom is an artist and she paints all the time.

And so every time she comes to visit, always like, brings her watercolors with her and she's like painting. And I've always just been afraid to paint because I've never felt I was good at it. You know, like that's always been like my, I'm gonna do this because I'm good at this and then I will like it. And I kind of have just pushed back, like challenged myself there, Sarah, to be like, I don't need to be good at this to enjoy it or even try it. Like, I agree. And I think it is a mental switch that you have to like,

go through. And I don't know what your background is, but as a former perfectionist and former like good student, right, you know, I think you kind of train yourself or get trained to, you have to be good at things, or you have to do them a certain way, or you have to progress in a certain way. Now I'm like in my 40s, you know, and I'm like, do I really have to be good at it? Can I just like, you know, mess around with it? I think one of the things too, that I picked kind of

cake decorating, because I think is one, I like cakes, my kids like cake, but also like, you can just like smoosh the icing and like start over, right? It's like, feel like things that are easy to start over are like more in my vein. I think like painting feels overwhelming to me because I'm like, okay, once you put it on there, it's like on there, right? You can't erase it, you know, they don't have erasable paint. But things that I can kind of like,

redo if they don't turn out the way that I like. find more, less anxiety inducing, I guess. Yeah, there's like a lower barrier to entry to like trying and failing. Exactly. Exactly. And I also still have, I have a violin from middle school in my closet still that I have moved from me to place to place and carry with me years and years on the idea that like at some point I'm going to pick this back up, right? And I'm like, I will be terrible.

Like I am not musically inclined. I don't remember songs. I have a really hard time remembering lyrics or melodies or recognizing songs even. I think there's probably something in my neurons and how they're connected that would explain that. But I was just like, you know what? If I want to do it and I want to play two songs, if I want to play Twinkle Twinkle Little Star 20 times and it makes me happy, why not, right?

love that so much. If I want to play Twinkle Twinkle Little Star 20 times and it makes me feel good, why it makes me happy, why not? That is so empowering. So empowering. Well, I'm talking to myself too. I'm like, you know, prepping myself for like carrying through with it because I'm like, I have it in my head, but I'm like, okay, now I have to actually do it. That needs to be like a quote on a shirt. I would totally wear that.

I'll start a merchandising arm. I know, right? it to my website. Yeah, exactly. Well, you're like the perfect guest to have on our show, honestly. Like you're a storyteller. You love to champion the stories of these organizations, nonprofits that are doing really cool work in healthcare and that kind of, and those fields. think when I met you, was like, you got to come on the show because you're just perfect for the show. So thanks for coming. Well, thank you. Thank you.

What's what's what tell me what's lighting you up right now, Sarah? What are you super excited about? Let me say first, I just love the wording of this question, right? I think I don't know if you know, but like my icon is a light bulb. My tagline is like, don't wait, illuminate. I talk all the time about like shining the light on the stories. And you know, like I'm really into light imagery and like sunshine and brightness. Because I just want I love the color yellow.

But also I just think it's a very powerful metaphor. So starting with that, so I'm gonna go in a couple different veins here. One is work related. I just started working with a new client about six weeks ago. And I feel like I still get that like new school year excitement when I start working with a new client. And I was like, I get that little buzz and I'm like, you get to do that kind of like deep dive like into what they're doing, like their history, kind of what's worked for them, what their current messaging is, all that stuff.

So that's been really exciting. And also they are teeny tiny. And so I am already seeing visible impact that I am having because they are so small and their staff has been so stretched. And I think that that's just very heartwarming to me, right? To be able to see so quickly, like, okay, I am having an impact here. People are already telling me, like, okay, you're really helping us. This is really, you know, like, and I think that's just.

You know, it makes you feel really good when you can have that experience, especially so quickly in the client relationship. So that's work. And then my kids, obviously, I mean, I know it's cliche to talk about your kids being the light of your life, but they are. Bring on the cliches, right? I'm just going to lead into it. My son is recently six and he's in kindergarten and my daughter will be two the end of October.

So this will air after that. She'll be two by the time this airs. But you know, they're just like amazing little humans. And I think watching them grow and getting to explore their personalities and their interests and all of that, it's something that I have kind of centered my life around, right? Like, you know, and I'm just going to do it unapologetically. You do whatever you do, however your family runs and what have you, you know, is what works best for you. But I think my kids definitely are one of the things that light me up.

And then this also may or may not be topically related by the time this episode airs, but fall, like I really love fall. It's my favorite season. I like the colors. I like the smells. Like I, I will sometimes light pumpkin scented candles all times of the year because I think the smell of like pumpkin and cinnamon is just like delicious to me. It's heaven.

Yeah. And you know, I was like, don't feel I should have to be limited to three months of the year. Like, could be fall in my in my, you know, office all year round. Right. But I think, you know, I like to wear a light sweater. So I think fall in the mid Atlantic is an amazing season. And there's always lots of activities going on. And I'm willing to leave the house because I won't be like sweating in like five minutes. So, yeah, I think.

I fall is lighting me up right love fall. I love when you step on the leaves and they crunch under your feet. It's the best. Especially if they're brightly colored, right? You you to see the pop of color and then the snap and there's that like crispness in the air, you know? that just like combination. smell different. It does. I love the smell. Like you can tell when the season starts shifting.

from summer to fall and you can smell it. Maybe it's the ragweed. don't to say it's probably the pollen, right? Or leaf mold. Right, exactly. But whatever that smell is, it is like a gift. welcome it with just all my senses. It's just so potent and beautiful. And there's something so cozy about fall. It's when I start to bust out all my teas.

and start to like try out all the teas. And I'm with you with the pumpkin man. When Wegmans brings back the pumpkin muffin, I'm like, I'm so there for that pumpkin muffin and the pumpkin bread. I had a decaf pumpkin spice latte this morning because I had like a coffee meeting with someone. And I specify that it's decaf because like I actually don't, I drink caffeine very, very rarely because it makes me like jittery and hurts my stomach. So I know other people love their caffeine, but.

I'm over here or just on the sugar high, not on the caffeine high. That's awesome. And your kids are such beautiful ages, two and six. my gosh, that's so lovely. fun. It really is. It's like, it's a great age. they're like, we went to Disney on ice not that long ago. And we had, I had never been to anything like that.

I don't know how old you are, but in the early 90s, know, had the figure skating was so huge, right? The Olympic figure skating was so huge in the early 90s. Kerrigan, Tonya Harding. then, and then, know, you, so I always wanted to go to like Stars on Ice when I was like traveling. And I like never told anyone that I wanted to go because I think I thought people would laugh, my family might laugh at me or something or pick at me and whatever, for whatever reason.

I never told anyone, I never went. And so this was my first ice skating thing and it was my kid's first one. And I was like, it was worth it. like, I really enjoyed it. And I was like, I may have enjoyed it more than them. I don't know. And it's funny because I grew up in North Carolina and I never ice skated. I've been ice skating like three times in my entire life. It wasn't a thing.

Now there's like a professional hockey team and all this stuff. That was when I was a kid, that was, didn't exist. Right. It was like, you didn't really do ice sports in North Carolina. You know, you might go tubing on in the mountains in the winter time. Right. But it wasn't really like, you know, so I don't know why I had some, I don't know.

something about ice skating, but. I think it was the 90s nostalgia. mean, so yeah, I was totally a 90s girl and I'm having major 90s nostalgia right now. telling you. went to this like women and econ mixer last week and I totally wore a baby doll dress like circa 1995, like channeling Alicia Silverstone. And I was like, I am so happy to be 16 again. Like I'm listening to all the 90s music. And like you're right, the early 90s was like, remember the cutting edge movie, that movie that came out.

That's still great movie. will just watched it last month. like, it holds up. It Yeah. They did a remake, but the remake was not as good. The original is significantly better. And yeah, I've definitely seen a lot of the clothes in the stores. I'm like, I owned that. That exact thing. I like I had my closet. And I am a person, like the sweater that I am wearing today is probably 20 years old, no lie. I am a person who holds onto clothes for a really, really long period of time. And I feel like...

I got rid of it just a little too soon. was like, I could have just kept these clothes from the 90s for like five more years and they would have like been back in. know, waited, you know, held onto it for all this time and then got rid of them just a little too soon. It's so funny how it all comes around. So, you know, in like five, 10 years, it's going to be like the odds are coming back and it's going to be like the low slung pants that where your butt crack is like.

I they're already coming back, the Jinkos. Yeah. I think they're already coming back or they're already kind of creeping in. Yeah, I think you're right. Yeah. Those hats, you know, remember those hats like Britney Spears was wearing in like the videos, the little like page boy hats. You know, they've got to be back, right? I think, yeah, you're probably right. See, my daughter's the one, like I feel like now that I'm, I have a 14 year old, she's a freshman in high school.

And I'm learning from her what's cool and hip in fashion. It should be all up on the trends. She's all up on it. don't know any trends. They're little. They're just like, you know. It's nice though. it's nice both as nice, but it's kind of like nice to learn from her, you know? Like follow her lead a little bit on what's kind of like the newest and greatest. And it's an interesting transition, but so cool. Well, I would love to hear from you, Sarah.

This show is all about just like celebrating and sharing the stories of women in the past. And a lot of times I think we don't hear a lot about some of amazing women who have done some pretty remarkable things. And so I'd love to hear from you, like as you think about women in history, what really resonates with you? Who do you really connect with from the past that's inspired you? And do you have any stories of these women that you can share today?

Yeah. And again, I think this is such a great topic, right? Because we really should be talking about the women in history and the women that have shaped our lives and our current situation. as we're taping this, are on the eve of election season or technically in election season. Early voting has started in a lot of places. And in the vein and the context of that, I was like, you know what? I think we have to talk about the suffrage movement and the right for women to vote.

Obviously the key figure, most well-known figure in that is Susan B. Anthony, who has a coin and all of that. So, has certainly gotten some recognition, but was one of many, many, many women who were working for women to have the right to vote. And as I was getting ready for this podcast, I was kind of like digging into her and I was like, let me look her up. Cause I know like the broad strokes, but I was like, let me get some more details.

I read this story about her and this was from like the History Channel's website, so I'm assuming they're legit. But it talked about how she voted in the 1872 presidential election. And obviously that was illegal at the time because it was not, were not allowed to vote. She got arrested. She kind of fought it in court, but she lost and she ended up with like a hundred dollar fine, which a hundred dollars.

back in the day was obviously significantly larger amount of money than it is today. I don't know what the actual inflation numbers are, but she never paid it. Like she literally died and never, never paid the fine. Like she just never paid it. And I was like, what an icon, right? I mean, to recognize that

this is wrong, you know, in a society which is telling you that women shouldn't have the right to vote and it's telling you that they shouldn't be able to do all these things and they should have this prescribed role. But, you know, to recognize the importance of women being able to vote, to go out there and have that be like kind of your career really is like your entire life is kind of based around, you know, fighting for this and advocating for this and not only for yourself, right, but for all the women out there.

And then I think, I do think it's such a shame because the 19th amendment did not pass while she was alive, right? It was, was after her death. And I was like, man, she didn't even get to see it. She didn't even get to like legally vote. And I was like, but you know what? She did vote in that one election, right? So I was like, she kind of got it in a certain sense, right? I mean, really setting the stage for the next generation. Yeah. And I think like, she may not have seen it come to fruition, but just think about

the millions, if not billions of women who have been impacted because she was not afraid to break the rules. Exactly. Like that story that you shared about her voting and then not paying the fine, she was a rule breaker. I think as women, we need to hear more about the women who broke the rules because I don't know about you, but I've always grown up and I feel like whether it's the social, cultural, whatever it is,

There's always been this pressure that I feel that I need to be good. I need to be good. I need to do the right thing. I need to be a good mom and a good woman and a good wife and a good employee and a good employer. And I need to always do the right thing and follow the rules. And that's when I'm going to be happy. But I think it's important for us to share these stories like Susan B. Anthony, like she was a rule breaker. And sometimes in this world, if you want to have an impact, if you want to make a difference, you've got to break the rules.

You've got to like step up. The way you said that was really helpful because sometimes doing the right thing is not the same as following the rules, right? And I think that's important. I'm trying to figure out now like how to pass that on to my children, right? How do you explain to them? How do you decide, right? How do you figure out like, okay, yes, this is a rule that's valid and this should be followed and you know this and

then sometimes you're like, you know what, no, this is just like, this is not right. And it might be the rule, it might be the law, it might just be the custom, you know, but how do you decide that and then go about addressing it, right? And I think that's a tricky one, right? It's tricky how to explain that to someone. And it's tricky even for yourself, I think, when you're in this situation, because sometimes you're so accustomed to things being a certain way that you just don't stop to think like,

Well, why? Why is it like this? you know, why has this not changed? Or why was it like this in the first place? And, you know, I want my kids, I want myself, but I also want my kids to like ask those questions. And I'm like, how do I kind of like do that? Because I don't want them necessarily, I mean, I do want them to be good kids, but I don't want them to be good kids in quotes, right? Because it's like, I don't want them to just, I saw a story recently in the news and it was talking about, actually, I think I saw it on Instagram or something, but.

It was talking about, there was a cheerleading squad in Texas that was like, don't know, like eighth grade or something. And they got in trouble for doing something and their coach was like, okay, you're going to have to do these like bear crawls or crab walk type thing, which involves putting like you're walking with your hands and feet on the surface, right? On a track in like Texas in like a hundred degree heat or whatever. And they burned their hands.

these kids burn their hands. And the person who posted this was talking about like, how do we teach our kids like, when to step up to people in positions of power, know, when to when to go against the rules, when, how do we teach them like, what's the time to do that? And I think like, you know, to wrap it kind of back into the circle, like Susan B. Anthony has a good example of that, right? You know, she acknowledged it, she saw it.

And she was like, I'm gonna fight about this because this is worth it to me. This is worth it that I'm gonna make this fight. And I think as a society and as individuals, we have to decide what fights are we gonna fight. But also we have to teach the next generation to be aware of how to spot, you know, the things that are unfair, the things that are unclear, the things that, you know, that we need to address, that we need to change. I think that's so beautiful. I love what you said about asking why.

I think that's a great thing to teach our kids and for us to be thinking about to help drive awareness is like in a respectful way, really asking why is it that this is a certain way? Why is it that women can't vote? Why is it set up this way? Like if we start asking those why questions and really thinking about it that way, I love that you said that, because I think that's a really good way to kind of think about maybe what things we want to challenge and what things are.

Okay, not to let lie, I guess. And I lost my train of thought. That's the worst thing that ever happened. Well, I'll kind of switch this up a little bit then. Because you and I also like prior to the recording, we talked about Lilly Ledbetter. Yes. Who has recently passed away and you know, is obviously famous for the Fair Pay Act, which was named after her, which was only passed in 2009.

Which is like wild, right? And you know, kind of her experience, which was, you know, that someone kind of anonymously tipped her off that she was making substantially less money than Ben in the same position at her job. And, know, she fought it, you know, she fought it in the company and in the courts and it took a very long time, right, for this to kind of like go through its progress. But

I mean, again, like what, you know, what an icon, like someone who really was like, okay, I'm not gonna stand for this, you know, like this is unfair and I'm gonna fight for it. And I'm gonna keep fighting for it, even though it's taking up all my time and my energy. And, you know, I have this kind of notoriety now around it. I'm sure she was getting, you know, all kinds of ugly messages and probably death threats and all these other things, right? Because like, once you become the face of something, like,

You get a lot of positive things, but you also get all that vitriol and negativity as well. And I just think the courage and the tenacity or just straight up stubbornness to just kind of keep going through it, knowing that the benefits are not even really for you. They're for the next group of people, because you're the one that's in it.

fought for this so hard. yeah, hopefully in the end, you get something out of it. But in reality, it's gonna be more helpful for like other people, the people that come behind you. And I just have a lot of respect for that. I love that. I think that that I think in order to really make change happen, like Susan B. Anthony, like Lilly Ledbetter, you have to have a higher purpose that goes beyond you. Like, so because it is you're gonna be butting up against a lot of resistance.

And so that vision has to be greater than just your own, you know, and I think when I was reading about Lilly Ledbetter, one of the things that's really interesting is that initially she did not want to sue. And she sued because she wanted to make a statement. She wanted, she was thinking about the other women who would be impacted. And that's what kind of helped her, you know, push forward. But it was like, she knew what her values were. She knew what was important to her.

And she was thinking a bigger picture about beyond herself. And I think that's so important for us to really like get clarity on as women. What are our values? What is it that we really, really value that's important to us? And how are we acting in congruence with that? And how are we, you know, what are we asking why about that will be in congruence with those values? And what is our greater purpose that's bigger than just us that we really care about?

that we can lean into. And you know, it's, I don't know about you, but I have been incredibly shocked by how like recent some of these like changes and things related to women and rights and all of that have happened. Like I think I kind of, some of them have happened in my lifetime, but I guess I was just young and I didn't really know they were going on, you know, but.

to look back and to be like, women couldn't have their own bank account, they couldn't have their own credit card, they couldn't get business loans without a male co-signer, they couldn't be members of chambers of commerce or things like that. And this was in the 70s and 80s. This was not in the 1920s, this was recent history, mean, recent to me, because it was in my lifetime. And I'm just like, it's just wild to think of like,

everything people had to go through, everything women had to go through in order for us not to have to go through it today, right? I mean, I am a business owner. I am a homeowner. I'm the only person on my mortgage. I am a solo mom by choice. You know, I have done all these things as a woman without needing, you know, a dad or a brother or a husband or someone to like co-sign me or finance me or do any of these other things. And I would not have had

any opportunity to do these things 40 years ago, right? I mean, it just would not have been possible without like suing and without having these big things and being a major activist and you kind of going through this whole process. And I just think it's like, I don't know, it's just wild to me because I'm like, I am a very independent person. And just the thought, like the thought of having to like do that, of having to like ask someone and convince someone to like,

to basically back me or whatever, or I don't know, it just gives me the creeps, right? It's just like, would I have done any of this if I had to go through that process? If I had to have that fight, if I had to fight for my inclusion, fight for this? And obviously, there are still people and groups out there, we're not a perfect society. There's still a long way to go, guarded to discrimination and prejudice and everything along those lines and exclusion. I mean, just the difference.

between now and then. My grandmother is 91 years old. So she was born in 1933. So like right after the Great Depression. And when I look back and think about like all the things that have changed in her lifetime, right? I mean, the dramatic shift, right? Of what women, the role that we play, the options that we have, you know, for education, for jobs, for pay, for business ownership, home ownership, like all these things like.

You know, when she was a child, I mean, I bet she couldn't even imagine like the things that even I do. And I don't feel like I'm like super out of the box. I feel like I'm pretty like, you know, par for the course here, you know, as far as what I'm doing. But, you know, it's just, it feels like it should be ancient history and it isn't, right? It's still so close to where we are today. Yeah, there's still so much work to do. I have a follow up question for you and that is about men. So I think like,

we're definitely seeing the shift where women have a lot more freedom than we've ever had, you know, over time, the right to vote, even birth control, right? Like, you know, fair pay. Women have so much more independence now that we don't really need to rely on men in the same way that maybe we have in the past. And it's interesting because I think, I'm curious to hear what you think about this. Like, what do you see as the role of men in our society now that this is shifting? And

How do you think men are going to kind of like find their place as women continue to kind of gain more equal rights? You know what I mean? Like, what do you think about that? I think that the move to women's equality and kind of the rise of women, if you will, is actually really beneficial to men as well, right? Because men have also had this kind of prescribed role and kind of that they're supposed to play, right? And I think there's been...

I can't drop the stats right now, but there's a lot of research that has been done recently on like men's mental health and how they're not able to kind of express their emotions and how dangerous that is. mean, the rates for men and suicide are significantly higher than women. And I think the more we go towards women's equality, the more flexibility and freedom men also have to not stick to a particular traditional, like this is what the view of what a man is or what they should be is.

And I, as someone who has a son, right? And I am very careful with the language that I use with him and how I approach things with him about wanting him to be open with his emotions, open with his feelings, how to address that. I mean, I think one does not take away from the other.

the more equal the society, the more options that we have, the more flexibility that we have is better for everyone. We don't fit into a cookie cutter mold just because of our gender, our sexuality, or our race or ethnicity, anything, right? We're not a conglomeration. We are humans, we're individuals, we all have our preferences, we all have things we're better at and not so good at.

You know, I think the ability to on an even playing field explore that and kind of define who it is that we want to be taking that out of the equation is better for all of us. And we're not all the way there yet. Definitely not. But I think we are farther along than we were 10 years ago.

Certainly 50 years ago. I love that. I love what you shared about how like as women have more freedom and independence, it also frees up men in a whole new way. It reduces a lot of, think maybe the pressure that they've maybe had in the past, which to be like the soul breadwinner, for example, or to have to carry the load and, and stiff upper lip. And to your point earlier, like now it seems like, you know, as you were talking, it just thinks, I just feel like we're moving more to this place where

There's more openness of what can we learn from each other? What can men and women learn from each other? How can men learn to get more in touch with their emotions and maybe their feminine energy and how can that help them in their lives? And as women, what can we learn from men equally in that same way? And how can we bring that to our life experience? I think is really a powerful way for us to look at it in the future. And I think I love everything you shared there because I think you're right on point. It just reduces a lot of the pressure I think men have felt.

I mean, I hope so. I'm not a man, so I don't want to speak for men, right? Yeah, I guess you're right, right? Maybe we need to have a male, you know, if we can't have a man, I don't, you're right. Yeah, you know, but I think, I think that, you know, there's, if you look at the data on like how many men now are like much more heavily involved in childcare, in, you know, things around the home, in like the kind of the family stuff, which in the past was, you know, it was kind of like, you shouldn't be doing that because you're like a man, like that's not a man's job type thing.

And I think like people want to do that. Like I think the people of our generation, right, the men of our generation, they want to be involved with their kids. They want to be involved with their community. They want to be giving back and volunteering and doing all these other things that maybe in the past haven't like specifically been kind of seen as, you know, a man's role because it was kind of seen as like, okay, a very financial, right? Or very like strength-based.

I saw another little clip online. watched a lot of clip online when my daughter was going to sleep next to me. We co-sleep and I was like, I gotta do something dark and quiet, right? But I saw another little clip and it was talking about, it was like things like, things men would like you to know or something like that. I don't know. It's just like one of those videos that started playing when I was scrolling through. And one of the things they said was like kind of how much it devalues them when people are only upset when things happen to women and children.

And I think this was kind of specifically in context to like violence and conflicts, you know, that's happening in the world. But it was talking about how, are people only upset when like women and children are hurt or women and children are killed or put in danger. And it's like, is my life not as valuable, you know, as an individual human being, you know, as, you know, a woman's or a child's. And I was like, yeah, you know, we do still have that mentality, right? People still are more upset when they feel like,

you know, women and children are at risk or more, you know, more vulnerable type situation. And in some ways they are more vulnerable, right? They just, in certain ways you are more vulnerable. But I was like, that's really interesting, you know, because I hadn't really thought about that myself, about how...

we put up this role as like, know, men as protect protectors or they should sacrifice themselves so that the women and children should get out. And I'm like, I think about in context of my son and I'm like, I don't want my son sacrificing himself for anyone. I'm like, you need to get yourself out of this situation. Right. And it's like, obviously don't put anyone at risk by doing so. Right. I don't want you to throw someone on the bus here, you know, but I was like, I don't, you know, I don't like that mentality when you think about it, you know, in relation and I just hadn't thought about

right, because it just wasn't something that was kind of in my everyday life or that I was, you know, being kind of confronted with. And I was like, there's all kinds of things like that, right? And I'm sure if you had, if your next guest is a man, I'm sure that's all kinds of things, you know, to kind of talk about and insight about it. But I was like, you know, I don't think that increasing awareness of and knowledge of and rights and all of that for women takes away from men at all.

I don't think feminism takes away from men at all. think there are plenty of men who actually are feminists, you know, and I think obviously I would like men to be allies, right? And recognize when they are in a position of power, they are in a position of privilege and how can they use that to help other people? I think actually all of us should be doing that because, you know, not all of us can be Susan B. Anthony or Lilly Ledbetter. Not all of us are in a position.

where we can take the risk of being like the face and being the very vocal part of the movement, you know? And I think when you are in that position, you need to kind of take one for the team a little bit, you know? People, you don't know everyone's stories and you don't know their actions. I think tying it back into like, you know, we talked about the anonymous person who tips Lilly Ledbetter off that she was taking substantial ass money. And I'm like, you know, we don't know the story of that anonymous person. You we don't know who that was, but they...

saw that it was going on, they noticed it, they pointed it, they were like, I recognize that this is wrong, you know, and they're like, I'm gonna let someone know. that even if that, I mean, that's all they could do, if that's all they had the capacity or their privilege or, you know, the power to do, they did it, they did what they could do to make a change, you know? And so that person is less famous, but is not less important in the scheme of things than Lilly Ledbetter, who was the full face of it.

You know, nothing happens. No individual is successful in changing society on their own, right? Other people have to be involved in the process. And I think, you know, I hope everyone who can speak up, you know, will speak up, right? Because we were not all in a position that you can't. That is so beautiful. No individual can impact change all on their own. And I love that example that you shared about the anonymous tipper.

who let Lilly Ledbetter know this was happening. She had no idea someone left a note and told her about the salary disparity that was happening, that she had been paid less by thousands of dollars for decades. And I think that's such a beautiful point, that not everyone can be the face and that it does take more than one person to make change happen. And I would love to hear from you, because you are a communication strategist. What do you advise for women like,

and how they can kind of develop their own unique voice and communication strategy that will impact change positively. Like what would you advise maybe someone who's younger or even someone like me who's 43 and still trying to figure it out. Like how can we develop our voice and cultivate it and create positive change that's gonna be authentic to us and impactful? I mean, I think it really is just that. Like notice what is going on around.

you, you know, I think pay attention and listen to kind of what is happening. I think we all need to be aware. That's the first step, right? I mean, we all can do that without, you know, taking any risks to ourselves really, like, we all can be aware of what's happening and where unfairness and inequity is happening and paying attention to that. And then I think, you know, speak up and speak out, like, tell your story. People react so people want to hear stories.

You know, even if you're doing business at a company, tell my clients this all the time who are mainly organizations. I do work with a few individuals, but mainly organizations. And I tell them, you know, the more we can personalize and humanize this, the better. Because people want to do business with people. And businesses aren't people, but they are made up of people. And the more we can tell the story of like the people who work here or the people that you're helping, you know, the better off it's gonna be. And I think also like amplifying the stories.

of other people who have lived experience in what's going on or who, you you don't always have to tell your story, right? I mean, we're not all Lily Ledbetter, right? We don't all have this specific experience, you know, but we can tell Lily Ledbetter's story, right? And talk about why it was important and the changes that it made and all of that. And I think it's particularly important to amplify the stories of people who don't have the positions of power and privilege, right?

And if you are in that position, I do think you have a responsibility to kind of reach back and say, you know what, I'm going to tell the story of, know, Susie Q over here, who maybe doesn't have the platform or, you know, the ability to tell this without severe repercussions to her life. Right. And so I think that's kind of on an individual basis. And if I was talking to an organizational client, I would be like,

Don't do shady things. Right. mean, be a good employer and a good value to the community would be great. But also like transparency and openness. know, I mean, think things are certainly very different now than even back in the 90s about pay and that kind of thing. But transparency about everything. Right. I mean,

I think being as clear as possible, communicating as much as you can, communicating what you know, when you know it, and acknowledging what you don't know or can't tell people at this point is really important. I think you want to be known as an organization that is truthful, that is honest, that is upfront, and that's both like externally and internally, right? I think you're...

your value and your ability to be successful is really dependent on that. And being able to kind of tell your story well, but also, you know, do what you can to make it, you know, to make it a more even and better place. You know, I mean, there's that quote, right? That it's like, be the change you want to see. And I was like, I feel like it should have a caveat, right? And she'd be like, yes, be the change you want to see, but you can do it in baby steps.

Right? You can, you can do what you can to the extent of what your role is, of what your power, of what your knowledge of whatever is. And if everyone does that, if everyone goes to the extent of like what they can do. And I'm not saying you have to completely disrupt your life, right? I mean, I'm talking about like easy, basic things, like giving people a heads up if there's something that you know, is an issue of, of, you know, maybe write an anonymous email or something to someone and kind of let them know.

you know, we don't all have to like, be the face of things. We don't all have to be like massive whistleblowers. But if we are all aware and we're all talking to each other, then we're going to be more aware of where the problems are, right? And I just think, and I've been remote for like eight years now, right? So I'm not necessarily having those water cooler conversations with people that I did back in my like in office days. But I think that it's still important to like,

have some little chit chat sometimes, right? And build that into like, if you are remote like me, build that kind of into your system and your time flow and everything, because sometimes that's where things come out and you learn about things that are really important, but may not be in your direct line of, you know.

Yeah, and I think as you're thinking about like communication strategies for organizations, having the people within your organization sharing those stories and sharing their stories together really helps build, I think, connection with each other, but also helps the larger story of the organization unfold too. I just love this. I love your advice to tell your stories and that not everyone needs to be a Lilly Ledbetter or a Susan B. Anthony in order to make and create positive change. Your story matters, even if

you're the anonymous tipper. Like if she hadn't made, she or he, whoever it was, hadn't tipped off Lily Ledbetter, none of this would have happened potentially, or it could have happened later. We don't know. But your role is important even if it's, you know, in a small way. I think that's just, I love that advice to just do what you can. Do what you can and.

don't feel like you have to have this pressure to start your own nonprofit organization tomorrow. Yes, yes. mean, you know, any step forward is a step forward, right? It doesn't have to be, you know, a massive jump forward. Progress is made in small increments and it's made in kind of

impacting one person at a time or impacting one small thing at a time. Maybe it's, you know, maybe you get an office rule change and you work in a small office. Maybe you like, I only have six people in your office, but you got an office rule change. Well, that's.

six people that you're immediately affecting, but it's everyone else who's gonna work at that office after that too, right? And I think, and then maybe they're gonna go talk about it to someone else. They're gonna go share that story like, hey, I got this thing in my office change and they're gonna tell their friends or their family or whoever who potentially are gonna take it back to their organizations. And it's like, you know, don't negate the power of the network and the power that like one small change. I mean, it's like people say like the butterfly effect, right? You don't know like what one small change might have.

be amplified into like, like along the way. And I think, you know, the more we can talk to each other, the more we can share our stories and see people as humans, right? Because I think also like, it would be a, it would have been a lot harder, I think for someone to look Lily Bud better in the face and explain to her why she is not getting the same amount as the men who are doing the exact same job that she's doing.

you know, like it's a lot easier when things are in secret, right? If we're doing things that people don't actually know we're doing them and we don't have to like explain them, we don't have to like kind of justify ourselves, it's a lot easier, right? And so if we are talking about it and we are putting it out there and we're kind of making people do that, we're kind of by default making people be better people kind of by dint of them not wanting to sell.

seem like bad people, right? And it's like kind of like positive peer pressure to kind of, you know, make someone, you know, do the right thing. You know, we're more likely to kind of do the right thing in public maybe than we might be in private, you know, because don't let people get away with things, you know, make them explain it, you know, make them talk about like, if there's something that you feel is like unjust, and you have and you are in a place where you can question it, right? I always caveat with that. If you see something as unjust, you're in a place where you can question it, do it.

Like question it, make them explain it because sometimes if you can't explain it, they're just like, yeah, why is it that way? You maybe we should change that. You know, it might be a very easy lift there. A lot of times it's not, but you know, like take the easy wins. Take the easy wins. Sarah, this has been such a fantastic conversation. Man, you are such a light. Speaking of what's lighting you up, you're such a light. Like truly this has been such a great conversation and so many wonderful like nuggets of wisdom.

I can't wait for people to hear this episode. It's just so needed right now. Thank you for coming on the show today and sharing your light with all of us and illuminating this space. It's fantastic. thank you. I'm so glad to be here and, you know, to get a chance to kind of ramble and put my thoughts out into the world, you know. Yeah. Well, very cool. Well, thank you again, Sarah, for joining me. And until next time.

We will see you on our next episode of Hello Moxie. That's a wrap for today's episode of Hello Moxie. I hope you felt that unbreakable thread connecting you to the women of the past, to the trailblazing pioneers of today. Their stories of audacity, resilience, and courage are a powerful reminder of what's possible for you when you choose to live with Moxie.