Women in Tech: From English Lit to Software Engineer | Career Changes & Tips!

🌟 Live from Meet Magento Florida! 🌟 

Join Nicole Donnelly as she sits down with Antoinette Mkwapatira as she shares her journey, from an English Lit degree to leading tech teams, and offers tips for women considering a career in software engineering. Discover why she believes coding is communication, how it can provide flexibility for working mothers, and the inspiring women who paved the way.

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Transcript

Speaker 1 (00:00)
You're listening to the e-commerce edition of Hello Moxie with Nicole Donnelly. In each episode, we speak with leaders in the e-commerce industry on promoting diversity in the tech sector, the latest e-commerce trends, and how B2B brands can innovate through e-commerce. Hello Moxie is sponsored by DMG Digital, a woman-owned marketing consultancy dedicated to helping B2B companies create exceptional customer experiences.

Speaker 2 (00:25)
Hello. Oh my gosh. are live at meet Magento, Florida. So, so, so fun and exciting. I just got out of an amazing keynote session and I am joined by the amazing Antoinette Mkwapatira Did I do it? Did I get it? Oh my gosh. I was so worried. I was going to botch her beautiful last name. It's so gorgeous. So Antoinette, it's so nice to meet you. Antoinette came to our B2B workshop yesterday and we got to connect last night at the Women in E-commerce event and she was

just on fire telling all these great reasons why women should come and join the e-commerce world. And I was like, we need to get you on the show. We need to get you talking about this. So Antoinette, first I'd love for you to tell our listeners a little bit about who you are, your background, and what you love about e-commerce.

Speaker 1 (01:13)
Sure. So I am a software engineering manager in e-commerce at Haynes and our organization overall is very B2B focused, but I work on the DTC side of things. So direct to consumer, know, the standard website, if you want to go and buy some of our products, you go shop online. I love Haynes.

Speaker 2 (01:35)
My daughters wear hems.

Speaker 1 (01:37)
Well we have other brands too, know we do Playtex and a lot of our consumers are women and you know a lot of times even though we were producing products for men a lot of the products are bought by women for men.

Speaker 2 (01:49)
That's so right.

Speaker 1 (01:51)
So a lot of times, know, women in the household are controlling 90 % of the household spending, either based on, you even with home improvement, it's things that they want done, or, you know, like the vehicle purchase with a car, maybe they need, could be a mom and they need a place, a way to get the kids around. And so they're the ones that are driving minivan purchases or the larger SUV purchases or even the truck purchases. It's really about meeting the household needs.

A lot of that is driven by the woman and her role of leadership in the house. So e-commerce is a field that is definitely very much targeted toward women as consumers. And then also, not just women as consumers of product, women as consumers of technology. Like what appeals to women when we are shopping on the site. And then on my side, women as a producer of technology. I love what I do. I feel like I'm lucky to get to do

because code is like a safe space. You can go in there and you can do anything you want. The only limitation is the limitation you impose on yourself. You can set your own schedule. So I'm a night owl. I like to work at night. So if I want to get up in the middle of the night and get stuff done, I can. If it's like after dinner, after homework, after everything else, I can sit down and have time to myself and get done what I need to get done.

So I love it for that reason. just, love the flexibility of it. I love how, you know, it sort of helps me take better care. It helps me be a better mom.

Speaker 2 (03:21)
so so

so important I mean just think about like the nine to five schedule. Really created by men from the industrial revolution way back in the day right why does that still have to be relevant.

Speaker 1 (03:26)
Right, exactly.

Exactly, with women doing the hard work, right? Women making it possible for the 9-to-5 schedule to even exist. Because it's not like their families didn't exist, right? They still have families in that context, but women were making it possible for that to happen. And then, you know...

Speaker 2 (03:40)
Yeah.

Speaker 1 (03:49)
women were coming into the workforce and, we're really starting to make valuable contributions. But one of the things you find is like nine to five doesn't work because it's very hard to get childcare early in the morning. Like even if you can get the three to five PM covered, no problem. Who's covering the seven AM to nine AM so you can get into the office. So, you know, that's another thing I love about software engineering. You can do it from home, right? I work from home, literally anywhere. So, you know, if you need to, you know, let's say you have an infinite and

After my son was born, I went to my first business conference with him at three months old. So he traveled where I traveled. I was still breastfeeding. Like I have him like propped up on the table. I'm breastfeeding and writing on his laptop.

So it really is something you can do from anywhere while you take care of your kids. So I feel like even though it hasn't always been like explained that way, it is a career that to me is really in line with.

You know, you think of yourself as like, you know, I have a lot of work around the house or not that all women do, but a lot of times like the barriers to career entry or like successful career for women is around time management and balancing our role as like caretaker with, you know, who we are as like tough, driven professionals in the workplace.

Speaker 2 (05:10)
Yes,

you're absolutely right. I mean, I think, you know, a lot's changed over the last decades when it comes to men are really taking on more of a role in the home, you know? Absolutely. But the reality is, let's be honest, women still carry the burden of the household and, you know, the kids and everything. That's just the way it is.

Speaker 1 (05:24)
Close.

We're leading the

way. I think we're like the manager of the household. We're the coordinator. We're sort of running the show. men really do step up, and sometimes they run the show in the household, and every household just differences about what works for you as a family. But in terms of balancing, they talk about work-life balance, I think that self-region is like a perfect career for women.

because it has a lot of flexibility baked into it.

Speaker 2 (06:01)
So

did you always know you wanted to be a software engineer when you were- How did you decide, you know what, this is what I want to do.

Speaker 1 (06:04)
head.

My dad, well no no, so my dad was a computer engineer back before computer engineering was a thing. He had a degree in electrical engineering. Okay. And so I had my first computer like when I was little. I remember him writing code as a kid. I didn't even know what it was and I think I built my first computer with my dad. Maybe I was like 10 years old or something. So cool. you know.

Speaker 2 (06:35)
special connecting memory with your dog.

Speaker 1 (06:38)
So, but I did not think that I wanted a career in technology at all. Yeah. I have a bachelor's degree in English literature in history. You know what's so thought I wanted to be a writer.

Speaker 2 (06:46)
Laura Falco last night literally the same thing she's like hardcore amazing magenta developer and she's like my degree was an English Lit so major in English Lit and then what happened?

Speaker 1 (06:59)
I worked for an organization that had a tuition reimbursement program. Okay. And one day, my boss, I hope he's not listening right now, but he said to me, he's like, hey, you you would be really good in marketing. And I was like, I don't think so. I don't think so. I'm not good at sales or anything like that. So, and I was trying to find a nice way to say no.

And what I said was, you know, I have really been thinking about taking advantage of our tuition reimbursement program in computer science. So I just don't think marketing is going to work for me.

Speaker 2 (07:39)
You

knew exactly what you wanted,

Speaker 1 (07:42)
So I know I didn't want marketing, so then I was like, okay, well now I gotta actually get a degree in computer science. Very cool. So that's what I did.

Speaker 2 (07:51)
Was it love at first code?

Speaker 1 (07:53)
It was not. No. I think a lot of the courses are designed for like traditional path entrance. So that would be people who are like, they've always loved writing code or they've always been very into computers and their whole life revolves around it. And the thing is like that is one way to do it. Another way to do it is just to think about what you're actually doing, which is writing instructions.

And if you can write, if you can explain, if you talk to people and they understand you, you can write code. Just you're communicating to a machine what you want the machine to do. That is all it is. So if you're thinking about like a career and something or making a career shift, if you like to write instructions, like if you like look at a recipe and you can write a recipe or you read a recipe and it's clear.

Speaker 2 (08:27)
So basically, code is communication.

You can write code. to create a recipe, right?

Speaker 1 (08:48)
like to create recipes or if you, you know, look at building instructions, you're like, yeah, I can put together this bookshelf myself. If you can do that, or if you can even like, you know, say you're like writing out instructions for your family, like there's 20 things going on and everybody needs their own set of instructions in the household. If you can write those instructions, really, you can write instructions for a computer. It is way easier to get a computer to do what you want it to do than it is to get a person. So if you can get a person to do what you want to do, you can get a

Speaker 2 (09:19)
That is absolutely the truth. people part is much harder. Right, it is!

Speaker 1 (09:22)
And

you know, like the instructions have to have so much more subtlety and thought put into it. And a computer, like you tell it what to do, just do it. Like computers are dumb. You just tell them what to do and then they do it and that's it. So.

Speaker 2 (09:35)
my gosh, well what advice would you give to women who may be considering this career or maybe not even thinking about it at all? I'll be honest, I never thought about a career in software engineering. Just do it. Just try it.

Speaker 1 (09:48)
Like there are, and this is what I really love about the way things are shifting, is that there are so many resources. If you are like, just like, let's say you're sitting on your phone and you're scrolling through Facebook, you know, like you're in sort of like doom scrolling mode where you're like, I'm going to scroll to the end of Facebook. I'm going to get it all.

You know, scrolling through the end of TikTok. I'm gonna see every video. set a timer. Yeah. Scroll for 30 minutes or whatever you want to do. And then in the remaining time that you might have on your lunch break or whatever your me time, go to a site that interests you and then try to figure out how you think it was built. Like look at, you know, like the components on the page. So if it's a website, there's probably a big header at the top. There's always a header.

Speaker 2 (10:32)
Always better.

Speaker 1 (10:34)
there's going to be navigation. So think about like how you use that and how you interact with it and understand that someone built that, that someone could have been you.

Speaker 2 (10:44)
That someone could have been you absolutely. Yeah, you know what that deserves a cookie

Speaker 1 (10:49)
Okay.

I a 9 year old. So 9 year old gets a cookie today.

Speaker 2 (10:58)
So you're local here in Florida.

Speaker 1 (11:01)
Yeah, I guess I lived here for about, I guess it's been like almost nine years. my son was like nine months. Wow.

Speaker 2 (11:11)
My last question for you is, know, on the show Hello Moxie, we really love to celebrate women and their connection to the women in history who've inspired them because it's so important for us to be able to look at who's gone before us and learn from their examples, right? Like if you can see it, you can be it. You know?

So I would love to hear from you. I love that beautiful story about your dad. That was so beautiful. Is there a woman in your, that really, when you grew up, just really inspired you or women, you know?

Speaker 1 (11:42)
You know, I think we have different levels of inspiration. My mom was always a huge inspiration to me. She started out her career as a nurse, worked as a nurse for a long time, and she wanted to get promoted. And at the time, there were no black women at the hospital she worked with who were in advanced practice nursing at that hospital. They wouldn't hire them. Wow. And so she wanted to get promoted and was told no.

And so she was like, okay, well, I don't want this to stop me. So she decided to go back and get a degree in nursing anesthesia. And so that was like her pathway to success. it was more education. And then there was a lot that went into doing that. She joined the Army Reserves to help pay for it. So she was, you know, like, captain. But, you know, I feel like

Speaker 2 (12:23)
more education.

Speaker 1 (12:38)
Where there's a will, there's a way. And as women, like a lot of times we have to be really creative in what we do for ourselves and what we do for our family. So, you know, that kind of taught me like, just because someone says no, you don't have to accept no for an answer. You're only limited by yourself. you know, there's a way. so that, and then also, you know, like other women that have accomplished.

You know, like big things. I think about, like this is, you know, as it came going, I've been watching like like Madeline Albright. you see how like dedicated and how serious she is and how seriously she took her professional work. And so that was always kind of like an inspiration to me to be like, you know what? We can be whoever we are at home and in our personal lives, but that really is not something that limits how we have to interact in our professional world.

Speaker 2 (13:09)
incredible.

Yeah, that's beautiful. I love Madeleine Albright. I love the relationship she had with her father. I think it's so cool how much she was such a mentor to her. And it sounds like that sounds like a connection too with your own father. Your father taught you from a young age how to build a computer. And I know Madeleine Albright, she had a very close relationship with her father in the same way. I think that's such a really cool like full circle moment. Wow. Well, thank you so much for coming on the show. This has been so, can I give you a hug? Absolutely.

Speaker 1 (14:03)
and your story is so interesting and engaging to me.

Speaker 2 (14:08)
That's so funny. I don't think so, but that's...

Speaker 1 (14:11)
It's just every...

It is to me, from a professional standpoint, what I work on, I'm listening to you talking about overcoming some of the challenges with B2B and e-commerce and how this is a huge area for growth. You think e-commerce is done. We think it is what it is, this mature industry, and it is if you're...

Speaker 2 (14:30)
consumer.

It is, but in the B2B space.

Speaker 1 (14:33)
It's very much like the old days of e-conference where it's the wild, west, anything goes, we're still figuring it out. So you have done a lot to kind of help, you know, crystallize like what some of the barriers are, like what's up next. So that was great.

Speaker 2 (14:47)
Thank

you.

Yeah, you know, it's been challenging, but it's also incredibly rewarding when you're able to kind of reach over those hurdles. And as women, know, you know, when you work in a male dominated space, you know, like B2B e-commerce is very male dominated. E-commerce is very male dominated. Manufacturing is very male dominated. So a lot of the times I feel like the fluffy unicorn. And let's be honest, look at my booth. We've got like pink and we've got cookies and tea and we're surrounded by all these very masculine booths. And you know what? I'm just owning it, you know, bring on the flowers and the cookies.

and bring on the moxie. yeah, think, I just think it's so important as women that we just step into our own voices and just, you know, lean into what makes this unique and feminine and all of that energy is so important to bring that, you know? So I remember when I first spoke at Meet Magento New York a couple of years ago, I was like, what do I have to say? These people here are so brilliant, very technical and I'm a marketer, you know? And I realized,

That was why I needed to be there, is because nobody else was talking about these things. And I think sometimes as women, we might not recognize that your different perspective is really needed, even if you don't think it is.

Speaker 1 (16:02)
is

and you know I cannot stress enough how important women are in e-commerce. And it's about convenience, it's about selection, and you know I think that these are things that people who are time-conscious really value.

Speaker 2 (16:08)
us.

So important.

And I mean, we could go on and on forever, but like, I also think like it's so important to recognize the allies that we've had in our careers, the male allies. Because I know I've had so many male allies who have really stepped up and supported me in huge ways, know, stepped up and invited me to be in the room and certain situations invited me to speak, invite, you know, like Robbie, for example, who's put on this conference, huge ally for women, you know, he invited me to speak last year at the conference and come

back and do this workshop here yesterday. And those are the, you know, that's what women need. They need people who believe in them that are inviting them to speak up and share their messages. And, you know, and I've, there's been several others, Noah Oakenberg is another. yeah, so anyway, so there's just so many examples. Have you had an email ally stories that you

Speaker 1 (17:11)
share. You know, I have so many, know, started with my dad, but also along the way. And I think of people that I've worked with early in my career, someone that I reported to Scott Ressom, he really encouraged me. He encouraged me in the field. He would like, he would be sitting there hours. And he's like showing me step by step what he does to be successful. Yeah. So it's not like this, you know, old boys club where it's locked behind a door, like these secrets that you can't get access. He's showing me.

what I need to do to be successful and what he does to be successful and just teaching me so much about it. Exactly, it's the time. He's investing that in me. He could have gone home, but we're sitting side by side and he's showing me, this is after I had my degree where you think, okay, now I have a degree, I know things. No, no, no, You need a man.

Speaker 2 (17:45)
Take your time.

To be honest,

experience is so, yeah.

Speaker 1 (18:03)
You need a mentor. And then even now, the person I currently report to, the first year I reported to him, he said to me, you're doing good, but I need you to speak up more. I need you to talk more.

So he would deliberately provide me with opportunities to make my voice heard. And that, I mean, to me, that makes all the difference. Like you need somebody that is going to just sort of open the door a little bit. Let you walk through first.

Speaker 2 (18:33)
Yes, you're right. And not to open the door. They tell you that it's I've got your back. Exactly. And I'm going to be there with you. I believe in you. Just them saying, I want you to speak up more communicates. I believe in you and I want to hear what you have to

Speaker 1 (18:47)
Right. And

it's not follow me, do as I do. It's, you know, recognizing that you have that skill and it's okay. You can take the lead. You go through that door first. You kind of come charging through and everything you've got, can put on the table. And he does a fantastic job. name is John Strong. Just a fantastic job. John Strong.

Speaker 2 (19:07)
John Strong, we love you.

Speaker 1 (19:09)
does a fantastic job of creating a safe space where it's okay to make a mistake. Now, there's accountability. So if you make a mistake, own up to it right away, do everything that you can to fix it, but it's not this thing where you can't have any risk.

or you're afraid of anything happening. He does a great job of that. He does a great job of saying, okay, the door's open, go to it. Here's what you need to do. And I tend to be goal oriented and sort of he kind of lets doesn't surprise me. He kind of like, you know, just lets me do what I need to do. There's no micromanaging. So I would say, and this is hard to do, but if you are a woman in technology,

and you are someplace where the environment is not supportive. Find another environment. There is a way to plant yourself in the ground so that you can

Speaker 2 (20:07)
Absolutely. I 100 % second that. mean, that's like a moment of let's just we need to give that some space because as women, it just goes back to what you said earlier. We're not stuck. We can choose. We can choose our path. We can choose where we want to be. There's nothing stopping us. And if you are in a situation where you feel not safe or that you're not being heard or validated, there's another table waiting for you. Right. And know what? You can create that table.

Speaker 1 (20:18)
Right.

Absolutely right, if you were planted in the wrong ground you might have to dig your own trench, but you can get in there and find a place where you

Speaker 2 (20:41)
Take

the trends and you will grow, right? And I totally believe that. So love it. Thank you so much for coming on. Man, you're awesome. I'm so glad I got to connect with you. So tell our listeners, how can they connect with you? Are you on LinkedIn?

Speaker 1 (20:55)
I'm on LinkedIn.

Antoinette Pupter, I'm on LinkedIn. I honestly, a lot of times professionally, I'm like head sound coding or you're like working with a team and you know, we're trying to get something done. So I don't necessarily spend a lot of time producing social media content, but I'm not, but I just love what you're doing so much. And if you can bring more women in and I'm not like the only woman.

Speaker 2 (21:10)
You barked it right.

Speaker 1 (21:20)
you know, if on a call or the only woman in a meeting, I'm like, whatever you can do, you know.

Speaker 2 (21:26)
Well, you are such a leader, such a leader for the people out there listening. mean, Antoinette is just an incredible example of what's possible. If you can see it, you can be it. And you've done that. And I think that's incredible. So thank you for being such a light and sharing your story. yeah, I hope you enjoy the rest of the conference.

Speaker 1 (21:44)
I am sure that I will. And I also want to thank everybody who's putting this conference on. It's been a great experience. If you are Magento developer, manage a Magento site and you haven't come to meet Magento, just come.

Speaker 2 (21:58)
It's

an incredible community and so much knowledge.

Speaker 1 (22:02)
And I think

that's like one of the standout things about Magenta that I love so much is that there is a community around it and has been for 15 years.

Speaker 2 (22:10)
Yes,

it is incredible. Good people, inclusive people, open people, helpful people, collaborative people. It's like the ethos of the brand is about this democratic, really beautiful collaboration where all ideas are welcome. It's like something about open source that really just brings that out, you know? Right. And you feel it just in the energy, you feel it in the communication and everything. So, yeah, wonderful.

Speaker 1 (22:33)
Well,

thank you. Enjoy your cookie.

Speaker 2 (22:36)
I'll give you one more hug for the road. All right.

Speaker 1 (22:38)
See

you later. Ezra gets a cookie.

Speaker 2 (22:40)
And

you can come back for more if you want more and did you get a tote bag with the book?

Oh good. Yeah, I hope you enjoy it and you can find us on Spotify or Apple Podcasts. Absolutely. So yeah, there's some amazing women in that book. I can't wait for you to read about them. Thank you. Yeah, thank you. Have a great day. Okay, we're gonna be right back in just a minute. Thanks Antoinette for joining us. We're gonna go find our next guest. So just give us one more second. Hold tight. I promise more fun goodies in store for you. So stay tuned.

Speaker 1 (22:57)
Thank you.

That's a wrap for today's episode of Hello Moxie Ecommerce Edition. Thanks for joining us as we bring you the latest news in the e-commerce industry and celebrate diversity and innovation in the tech sector.