Women in Tech: Breaking Barriers with Authenticity

🌟 Live from Meet Magento Florida! 🌟 

Join us as Nicole Donnelly interviews Sanne Bolkenstein, a leader in e-commerce, on empowering women to break barriers in the industry. Sanne shares her personal journey, discussing everything from her early days with Magento to fighting for female visibility. 

Sanne shares her point of view on the societal norms, finding allies in the tech industry, and helping and creating communities.

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Transcript

Speaker 1 (00:00)
You're listening to the e-commerce edition of Hello Moxie with Nicole Donnelly. In each episode, we speak with leaders in the e-commerce industry on promoting diversity in the tech sector, the latest e-commerce trends, and how B2B brands can innovate through e-commerce. Hello Moxie is sponsored by DMG. A woman-owned marketing consultancy dedicated to helping B2B companies create exceptional customer experiences.

Speaker 2 (00:16)
digital.

So this is Sanne. Yes. So Sanne, why don't you tell our listeners a little bit about what you do and who you are and just a little bit about...

Speaker 1 (00:27)
Yes.

Sure. So I'm from Amsterdam. I'm Dutch.

Speaker 2 (00:40)
by the way. My husband is Dutch, so I love Holland. It's one of my favorite places.

Speaker 1 (00:45)
Thank you. you. I love it's mutual.

Speaker 2 (00:49)
Over here.

Speaker 1 (00:52)
I

need to look at that too? Yeah. I've been working in e-commerce for over decade. I started out as a sales and account manager at a Magenta specialized hosting company. didn't really have a clue what Magenta was, but someone said like, that's a fun company to work with. And then it really stuck with me, like how cool it is to learn something, you know, absolutely zero about, but that keeps.

evolving all the time. So it keeps you on your toes because it's not like, you know, magenta, that's it. You could do the same trick for like 10 years because it's constantly changing very rapidly. So you want to keep up with technology and with innovation, you'd have to constantly educate yourself. That's exactly what I liked about it. Plus you're working with people and always say like, can make the most efficient technology in the end, you're doing business with people.

And that's exactly what I like about this community is people are very open, no nonsense, no hierarchy. It's all about people being passionate and wanting to know about you. And that's where I feel like it's really made connections for life.

Speaker 2 (02:05)
That's so beautiful. That's what I love about Magento is it really attracts some really open-minded, because it's open source, to attract people who tend to be very...

Speaker 1 (02:12)
Yeah.

Speaker 2 (02:15)
open, collaborative, inclusive. It's wonderful. It's a really special quality about the brand. what I think. Yeah, is. in the marketplace. Yeah. What you said is really on point about, I love what you shared about, it's important to constantly be staying on top of things and you really love that because the pace of change is happening so rapidly now. It's such a skill that is just going to become difficult. So, I mean, what advice would you give to

Speaker 1 (02:35)
Yes.

Yeah, it is.

Speaker 2 (02:44)
a young woman who might be considering a career in the tech space or in e-commerce, who might be just coming out of university.

Speaker 1 (02:51)
That's

true. Well, I would say that it's a perfect industry to work in. It's interesting when I talk to friends, say female friends I have who work for more traditional industries like law or banking, I find that there really is a glass ceiling that they're hitting and there's a lot of things that are just not very accommodating to women. But apart from the fact that there's not a lot of women working in tech, I find that the tech sector is extremely welcoming to women.

office flexible working hours. It's all about like, what do you actually do versus who you are or what you did before. It's like I said, there's not a lot of hierarchy. So I find it actually very easy to excel based on, you know, your, qualities that you have and the skills that you've required other than, you know, preconceptions that people might have about you.

So not to say that there's not a glass ceiling at all because I think we're all experiencing this in some capacity, but in generally speaking, I would say it's a very accommodating and also very exciting sector to be working in because the sector itself is constantly evolving and is growing. So it's offering a lot of long-term opportunities as well.

Speaker 2 (04:12)
That's so true, and I mean if you think about it, it's so much innovation happening. It's really exciting to be on the forefront of that. It is. How can we innovate, can we create better customer experiences for people and use technology to do that is really fun.

Speaker 1 (04:26)
Well, yeah,

that's another thing why I'm passionate about this particular like women in e-commerce stuff is that a lot of e-commerce is tailored towards women. If you look at magenta, for instance, they're typically very big in sections like jewelry, fashion, skincare, home deco, like tailored towards female consumers basically. But the technology is all devised by men.

And I'd say that's exactly why we need more women is because we are making this for women. So it would help also make the product better if we take their view into cooperation from the beginning onwards.

Speaker 2 (05:05)
So what do you think needs to change for more women to jump into?

Speaker 1 (05:11)
That's why I think it's very important that we have events like these because there's already quite a lot of women working in e-commerce, but they tend to be more in the background. And as an event organizer, I also know that when you put out a call for speakers, you will find for every woman that you kind of have to beg to please share her story on stage, there's like 10 guys lining up and saying like, I can do it.

And it's just, the only way to change that is if we actively pursue these women and convince them that their story is interesting enough to share and we put them on stage, that's when, you know, a girl that's now studying or a woman who's just graduated can see that woman and think that could be me sometimes. You can see it, right? You can't be what you can't see.

Speaker 2 (06:01)
Bye!

Yeah, you're absolutely right. I will say that, I mean, my experience was that way. Noah Openberg, who's in this community, he invited me to speak at Neem-a-Gento, I remember. I wasn't, and he was just like, you should come and speak at the conference. And I was like, You know? And so I think you're right. There are so many women who have such great experience.

And frankly, like, I find it very interesting that a lot of times when women do step up and take on these more front-facing roles, they put a lot of effort into it. A lot of work. The men sometimes, they just have so much confidence and they just kind of wing it. It's just interesting, like, how women tend to, like, feel like sometimes they still have to kind of prove or, like, work extra hard to show their value. don't know. What's your thought?

Speaker 1 (06:36)
Yeah, true.

Yeah, I feel that a lot of women also fear the judgment that might be passed upon them. Like if I put myself out there, what are people going to say about, you know, how I look or how I come across or maybe they find I'm insecure and then that actually makes you insecure and they'll talk like that. And so you see yourself rambling on stage or like, no, that's not something for me. I feel that women are much more conscious of that than men and are like a lot of men are.

Well, I know my stuff so you can put me out there and I'll, you know, I'll just wing it as you said. And, that's fine. Um, and it's just, unfortunately the way that, you know, girls grow up from a funny age already with that consciousness. that's exactly what we have to change. Yeah. Yes. And give them the confidence that, you know, you already know your stuff. So you don't need that much preparation. You don't need endless.

Speaker 2 (07:34)
It's okay to wing it.

Speaker 1 (07:44)
rehearsals in front of a mirror, you can just go out there and do it. So true. Yeah. But I talked to CEO of an agency today and he was like, Oh, 50 % of my leadership is women. So I said, that's great. But all I ever see of your company is you. So where are your female leaders? I want to see them on stage. He was like, that's actually a good point. I should ask them sometimes.

Speaker 2 (08:03)
you

Talk about that a little bit. Have you had some great experiences of men being an ally for you in your career that you can share?

Speaker 1 (08:21)
I think most of the men I've worked with have been allies. Especially, should give a shout out to the founder of Whova, William, who's my direct colleague. He has been very much advocating for women in his company from the beginning onwards. I was the first woman to join, and at the time there were four men. So I was number five. And as I was talking to him and his partner, he said,

I told them, like, you need some women on board. And they were both like 100%. We do like want the next person to join us to be a woman. And preferably that would be you. So that was a very nice start of my career at HUVA. But yeah, they've been very encouraging in putting us on stage, giving space for women and also finding women to join the company. And I think it has.

Because we from the beginning onwards had a good representation of women in the company, we have been able to foster a very inclusive and open culture that is welcoming to others as well. And I'm super happy to see that other female colleagues that I have, I've been able to convince them to speak up, be on stage, and give presentations and stuff as well. So it's good to see that carrying forward.

Speaker 2 (09:41)
you shared is that Willem and the leadership team was very intentional about bringing diversity into company. think that's, you know, if you are in a leadership position in a company, being intentional about bringing in more women, but also diversity in other ways, know, people who may be neurodivergent or have other, you know, differences that are really important that really helps for individuals.

Speaker 1 (10:03)
Yes, but again for that I think it's visibility is key. Yeah, so that's why I'm always almost immediately saying to people that I'm gay I have a wife is it's not because I want to Identify as gay all the time. I mean, I know I am very comfortable with it, but I know how important it is to see Especially somebody in a leadership position being part of a minority so that

other people from that minority feel that could be me sometimes.

Speaker 2 (10:33)
Yes, it just improved more more.

Speaker 1 (10:36)
And it encourages

others to talk about it as well. It makes it easier for someone to say, I also have a girlfriend or I have, I don't identify as a man or a woman or whatever. It makes it easier.

Speaker 2 (10:47)
So true. And you're just like, there's connection that happens when you realize that you're not alone in whatever you're experiencing. Yes. Other people are kind of going through the same thing. And can create a really strong connection that I think, I think we're in a little bit of a loneliness epidemic. know we're so isolated and as women, it's nice to be able to feel that connection more. The more we share our stories and all of that, it just helps.

Speaker 1 (11:11)
And it's something that women do more easily than men. It's really funny when you have like a women in e-commerce event and you find that it's talking shop for maybe five minutes and then, you know, but for the next hour or so it's about personal stuff.

Speaker 2 (11:26)
How

your hair? So true. Well, tell us a woman in history who really inspired you. Is there someone that comes to your mind? It doesn't have to be a famous person.

Speaker 1 (11:38)
I think there's lots of women that have inspired me. But I think from a very young age onwards, I've been looking for women who did things that weren't done before. So I'm from the Netherlands, and as we have a woman politician called Aleta Yakovs, and she has been fighting for...

voting rights for women in the Netherlands. And she's successfully so. And she was also the first female to join parliament in the Netherlands. So when I read about her story, was like, that's so cool because, you know, women weren't allowed to vote. And then she fought to change that and successfully so. allowed to vote? In 1919.

Speaker 2 (12:24)
Oh

wow, so it was around the same time as in the states.

Speaker 1 (12:27)
Yeah. So mind you, it's like we're a progressive country, back in the, I think it was 1954 or something when, until then, if you were working as a civil servant, as a woman and you got married, you immediately lost your job. Wow. Because you had a new job being someone's wife. Yeah. And that's where any civil servants or teachers,

Speaker 2 (12:51)
to us.

Speaker 1 (12:56)
Uh, nurses, like, if you didn't know, just getting married was enough to lose your job. It's insane, right? That's like 70 years ago.

Speaker 2 (12:58)
We've got children. just gave...

It's the same as in the States, like it wasn't until 1988 that a woman could get a business loan without a man signing on it. Like in our life, like bonkers, right? Like, yeah.

Speaker 1 (13:19)
That's insane. That's insane. That's after I was born.

Speaker 2 (13:23)
Yeah, I know I was born in 81. anyway, this has been so lovely. Thanks for joining us. Do you have any final words that you'd like to share? Any words?

Speaker 1 (13:35)
Thank you for having me here. Let's continue to help each other, put yourself out there because it's the only way we can make a change.

We're doing it. So very cool. Thank you. That's a wrap for today's episode of Hello Moxie Ecommerce Edition. Thanks for joining us as we bring you the latest news in the e-commerce industry and celebrate diversity and innovation in the tech sector.