Ronu Spirit

Episode 10: From the UK to Ghana: Legal Adventures and Misadventures

• Ronu Spirit • Season 1 • Episode 10

Share episode

Send us a text

In this episode of the Run Spirit Podcast, host Hameed discusses the complexities and challenges of empowering African nations with guest Richard Boateng, a dual national lawyer and entrepreneur with roots in both the UK and Ghana. Richard shares personal anecdotes about his experiences in Ghana, including struggles with corruption and the difficulties entrepreneurs face. The conversation moves towards broader themes such as the need for mindset shifts, the importance of civic education, and how the African diaspora can contribute to reshaping the narrative and driving positive change. Richard also shares actionable steps to empower communities, emphasising self-awareness, gratitude, goal-setting, and the importance of family bonds.

Richard:

the very employee who ought to feel grateful for being given a job seem to have this really perverse mindset, which is, I'm gonna sabotage this job and the business. if I can't deprive it of its resources to my benefit, then I'm gonna sabotage it so that both him and I languish in despair. lot of people I know in Ghana have given up. On the idea that during their lifetime there'll be any transformation worthy of chatter, and then now it moves to our children. What about our children? Are they gonna be experiencing the same apathy?

Hameed:

Hello everyone. Welcome to another episode of the Run Spirit Podcast, where you follow my learning journey as I explore potential ways to empower African nations, address the legacies of colonization and enhance the global respect for black and African people. My name is Hameed Today, we don't have Dr. Samira FHA joining us. but my guest today is Richard Boateng a dual national lawyer, an entrepreneur that is born and bred in the UK with Ghanaian heritage. he practices law both in Ghana and over here in the UK as a bridge between the two countries. He's also a father, a brother, and a son, and a good friend of mine. welcome to the podcast, Richard. It's a pleasure to have you.

Richard:

Pleasure to be here. Thank you very much. I feel extremely honored, my brother.

Hameed:

Awesome. we're gonna start in your dual national identity.'cause you were just telling me that before we started recording. And, that is interesting'cause you said the reason why it's important is because, a lot of the things we're gonna speak about on this podcast today is about perspective and which you know, being dual national and, being born and bred in the UK and having gone over to Ghana to start your law practice and work over there. You have a unique perspective. let's try to expand and explore that a bit. starting with being an entrepreneur in the UK and deciding, you want to go to Ghana and do it there. why?

Richard:

Okay. No, that's a fairly good question. the irony. The irony, and again, another example of about, of perspective

Hameed:

Hmm.

Richard:

and I'll try and illustrate most of my points by giving you story.

Hameed:

Oh, I love that. I love stories. let's do this.

Richard:

Thank you. my grandma died age 96 in 2011, but I first moved back to Ghana in the 2004, 2005, it was sort of transitioned between 2004, 2005 and 2006. During which time I spent a lot of time going to Ghana. I did the conversion calls, et cetera. Now, my grandma, who was acutely aware the lengths to which people in Ghana would go to, to secure, a visa to go abroad, whether it be England, Canada, Europe, the us, etc she was acutely aware of the lengths to which people would go. And so when it finally dawned on her that I had done the total opposite of coming back to Ghana. To set up a practice. She kept asking my mom and myself, are we sure There's nothing wrong with me. Right. And she, she kept saying that to the day she died. She kept asking that question to the day she died. She just couldn't understand why anybody in their right mind would want to come back to Ghana now. and there's a lot of force in that because most of my indigenous brothers and sisters have taken the view, Ghana is beleft of hope, and therefore success is unattainable.

Hameed:

Yeah.

Richard:

But here's the interesting thing, it's just, it depends on how you look at it, right? we have become so accustomed, and this is purely my view for, handouts that we're not willing to create for ourselves. So

Hameed:

You mean African nations?

Richard:

I would like to say African nations, but of course I don't have the firsthand knowledge to say it's true of all

Hameed:

Okay, so this is specific to Ghana?

Richard:

yeah, well, I've been to a few African countries, but I can say with certainty that it's definitely true of some of the Ghanaians I've come across or my interactions or knowledge of what I've seen in Ghana. Right. and it's a bit of a dichotomy because a lot of people I know and know that you too have gone back home, whether it be Ghana or any place on the continent. Started a business and usually the beneficiaries have, didn't have a job hit before that enter, entrepreneurial journey. And yet when they've been given the opportunity, rather than grab it and try and grow and become bigger, better than know what they were, they will sabotage what you've set up.

Hameed:

What do you mean? I don't understand. Can you explain that?

Richard:

Yeah, I will, I'll do my level best to explain that. So imagine, if you will, I live in Ghana. I don't have a job, right? I complain about my life, the fact that I've got no job. Ghana, Ghana, Ghana. And in fact, my mindset is I just need to get outta the country because there's no opportunities in Ghana,

Hameed:

Yeah.

Richard:

So that's one side of the equation. And I'll probably borrow to the hilt, maybe even lie, whatever, sell my soul to travel abroad. And then I may have been a doctor in Ghana, but I might become a menial member of staff when I get to abroad. because happy to clean or wash or, menial stuff. But I, in my mind, that's entertainment. Okay? That's one. Two, those who aren't lucky to travel, or in some perspectives they'll say lucky, but those who don't travel. I still weathering because I don't have anything to do. They don't have any work. So people that have returned to the continent tend to come with big ideas, right? So they set up something. And of course there's always this thing called local empowerment, right? So again, imagine it's me, I'm in Ghana as an indigent. You set up something and you give me a job, right? I ought to feel grateful to you, shouldn't I? because you've given me an opportunity to now perhaps pursue a career where I can actually earn for myself, feel good about myself and help you grow this business. And in fact, if I was one of the first few people that joined you, the reality would be you would trust me, repose more responsibility in me, and therefore we grow together. That would be a normal cause of events. Would you agree?

Hameed:

yeah. Found and team members.

Richard:

There you go. Unfortunately, majority of those who have had this experience tend to find that the very employee who ought to feel grateful for being given a job seem to have this really perverse mindset, which is, I'm gonna sabotage this job and the business. If I can't fleece it, if I can't embezzle, if I can't deprive it of its resources to my benefit, then I'm gonna sabotage it so that both him and I or them and I languish in despair.

Hameed:

And

Richard:

If that's not a poverty mentality, I dunno what it is.

Hameed:

so the question I was gonna answer that is. Others could say that this is a generalistic way of looking at things. I'm just trying to play the devil's advocate and look at things from a different perspective and say that not everybody is like this, and what evidence do you have that this is how, people act or behave. And, I'm guessing this is the part where you share your story because I'm guessing this is what happened to you, right?

Richard:

indeed. So, you are right, and, let me make it clear. Of course, I've not met every Ghanaian as popular as I may think I am, and I haven't spoken to but I meet enough people to trade stories with where I've had a certain sense of, this is not unique to me. Right. my example, I have a law firm in Ghana. It's been operating since 2007. We've had two clerks. The first clerk, we sacked because he was stealing from us. I won't make too much futs about that. It doesn't matter. He was replaced with another clerk who's been with us for at least 12 years right now. This clerk there was a point where the office changed our electrical meter, And it was changed because it was meant to make it cheaper. that changing the meter was meant to make our bills cheaper. What we discovered was it seemed to be exponentially higher. So we kept going back and forth with the ECG demanding that they come and re-evaluate,

Hameed:

ECG,

Richard:

electricity company of Ghana.

Hameed:

Okay, cool.

Richard:

Demanded that they changed the, meter a couple of times, went back and forth. We just couldn't understand why our bills had exponentially shot up. Right? Until one day, maybe five years later, I'm driving home with my wife.

Hameed:

Five years later.

Richard:

About five years later, I'm driving home with my wife at night, maybe just before 10:00 PM and as I drive past the office, my wife says to me, why is your office light on? Now let me pause and say this. Ordinarily we have a member of security staff who lives on site in it own bungalow,

Hameed:

Mm-hmm.

Richard:

right? So his premises has nothing to do with the office, although they're all in the same compound.

Hameed:

Okay.

Richard:

I almost dismissed her query. I thought, oh, don't worry there must be a reason. I thought, no, then I did a u-turn, went to the office and I parked. we have a gate. So I parked outside the gate, whereas ordinarily I'd honked the horn that opened the gate in the, in we drive right now, I parked and I thought, you know what? Let me climb my own gate.

Hameed:

What?

Richard:

own hahaha Oh, yes, yes. I don't know what it was. I just suddenly decided, because I can see we have four offices, one conference room and a very huge reception area, and the whole office was illuminated.

Hameed:

Oh, wow.

Richard:

Imagine like a stadium, right? So I was curious. I thought, you know what? Either someone's robbing us

Hameed:

Yeah.

Richard:

because my security ought to be blowing up our phones and say, yo, what's going on? Or something unto what is happening. So at this point, it piqued my curiosity, so I jumped the gate. Now having jumped the gate, I opened the door. And let me tell you this, the air conditioner, or we have air conditioners in each room was blowing like a gust of wind, right? It was freezing. And anyone that knows me will tell you I don't like the cold at the best of times. So it was literally a full blast when I walked through the reception, I could feel it when I walked through the hallway. I could feel it and our conference room. And so what we discovered was our security guard and our clerk What has been happening over that five year period was when we leave the office for home,

Hameed:

Mm-hmm.

Richard:

because my security guard has his own digs. Him and our Clark have conspired. To live within the office because that's where the air conditioner is. So they take a room, each blast, the air conditioner, one stays in a conference room, one stays in one of the offices in the corner and enjoy themselves. Right

Hameed:

So they were living in the office.

Richard:

they're living in the office basically.

Hameed:

Why was there no AC in his bungalow?

Richard:

I don't think there was, but even if there wasn't, there was enough room for the clerk to live in the bungalow if he so wished. It's an office for a reason right?

Hameed:

Yeah,

Richard:

And then it transpired that for five years during the period we were complaining about our bills being exponentially high.

Hameed:

yeah.

Richard:

It was because we were spending more money during the night on air condition than we did during the day when it's hot during the day. Yeah. And if I can conclude by saying this. Neither our clerk nor our security has been able to discharge the indebtedness they created for us.

Hameed:

you mean pay it back?

Richard:

Yeah, exactly. They haven't paid it back. They will never be able to pay it back, and they still expect us to pay them a wage. Now, ordinarily, that's another example of how you're depleting the resources of the very thing you are relying on to sustain a living.

Hameed:

Yeah.

Richard:

Right? it's what I call she bloody mindedness as an example

Hameed:

That's crazy. That is crazy. So they were doing this for five years. when you found out like, surely that's a fireable offense. Right.

Richard:

100%. and there lies the conundrum, right? Better the devil, you know, than the injury you don't remember. I started by saying our first clerk,

Hameed:

was stealing money.

Richard:

was stealing and he had access to each of our houses.

Hameed:

Hmm.

Richard:

He was stealing from my houses. Right? more often than not, certainly in Ghana, more often than not, people are hired based on recommendations. so there's a nexus between the employee and the employer because of, so you are hoping that gives you an advantage. and to be fair, our clerk, no one's perfect. Right? if we were able to source from a pool, which is untainted, maybe we would've sucked him. But we did discuss it. We weighed out the pros and cons and we figured he knows we know what he's been doing, right? He also knows the work well enough to discharge it. and I'll be honest, he's not exceptional. He's been with us 12 years. if he had aspirations, he could have become a lawyer himself. And any one of us would've collectively helped him to become a lawyer. That would've been, and I've spoken to him about this on many occasions, but it's certainly not something that, it's almost like a chore to even have him think about. Yeah. that's another example. so in short, better the devil, you know, than the angel, you don't, we decided, well, at least to a large degree, he knows. We know, and he knows now eyes are on him.

Hameed:

Mm-hmm.

Richard:

and because we didn't want to be set back with the 12 years to then train somebody else, it is a difficult balance, but obviously,

Hameed:

dang

Richard:

it's, yeah, it's a tough one.

Hameed:

this. Oh,

Richard:

And that's the problem. that's a real dilemma.

Hameed:

So this is what it's like running businesses and you're right. I don't think this, story is unique to you. I don't even think it's unique to Ghana. I've heard people that are trying to set up businesses in Nigeria and they have to deal with people that have just rubbed them blind. Like, it's okay. So I know you robbed me so I don't do it again. Right? you just have to deal with the situation that you're in, in order to make it work. I think it all goes back to corruption, right? this is corruption on different levels. And it's just like, if you're gonna operate in this countries, you have to operate within the systems, which is you have to deal with some corruption and accept that you will get scammed or you will get, robbed in some way at some point.

Richard:

Yeah. I can give you two more examples, but I'll make it short this time. to convert the office into what it is now, Let's say the contract to do that conversion was given to somebody who was very close to one of my partners. Right? And so we spoke with them and they laid out and they even gave us a contract for works.

Hameed:

mm

Richard:

And at that time there were four of us. The oldest was one of my partner's dad, he was senior by many a year. ostensibly, the three of us, the young ones were running the show. The father was as an over who was overseeing things for us. And, we agreed, he said he could get the work done. We were impressed with the way he started the conversion

Hameed:

Who is this the contractor that she hired?

Richard:

The contractor Yeah, this is before the firm. was Operational. before that, we were operating through the boot of our car. Right? So the way he was working, we were so impressed. We said, look, we're gonna travel. This is in June. in June of oh six, right? We're gonna travel when we're gonna come back in September. He says, by that time he will have everything done. Everything will be Chris. Yep. You know what's coming next? I haven't seen him since.

Hameed:

Whoa.

Richard:

Yeah.

Hameed:

It's a lie.

Richard:

I kid you not, he took the money and he left things just the way they were. The minute we left outta sight, outta mind, off he went. Now you can call it stupid because maybe we were being stupid naive. a whole host of things. And I remember our senior asked us, how could lawyers of any value of any worth leave themselves so exposed? It was a rude awakening.

Hameed:

But like, isn't that his business? I don't understand. Isn't that short term thinking? This is Accra that we're talking about, right? This is Accra that this is

Richard:

yes.

Hameed:

surely he won't be able to do business again in I don't get it. Isn't there a way to, doesn't that damage his reputation or is it just that he expects that you guys won't tell anyone?

Richard:

Oh, no. We told lots of people, like I'm telling you now, I know there are people that listen to this, will hear it as well, but I just don't think they care. There was a time when being outed in Ghana or in communities like Ghana was enough to discourage you from doing something as egregious as this, right. But these days it's like, it's a badge of honor, or they don't care because they've got what they want. And so I've never had the opportunity to sit down with him and ask him. What were you thinking? But you're right, we never saw him again. As far as I'm aware, he was never working in Acra ever again. In fact, I heard he took the money, went to the village and lived like a king until the money ran out. Short term thinking

Hameed:

and then what?

Richard:

Exactly, exactly. And then what,

Hameed:

this reminds me of a story that a friend of mine told me, in Nigeria, he was investing in some properties off planned properties. This is properties that, are going to be built that are currently being built. And it was, once again, through a connection through someone he knew, like a cousin, brother-in-law or something. So it was like, oh, we can't get scammed. This is, they invested a lot of money into it and people saw that. The houses were being built, so things are going good. only to find out later that the guy had scammed tons of people out of millions, and what he was doing he would build a few, but then instead of handing them over to the people that was supposed to get it, it would keep them and be like, oh, they still need a little bit. Tweak in here and there, then it would sell those same ones that he had almost finished to other the people and now he's been arrested and he is in jail. But it's like, what's it going like? He spends all the money, like the money's no where to be seen. And it's just like, there's nothing you can do to me.

Richard:

exactly. in fact just on this topic of I could talk to you all day. I've got another example. and one of the things that's, prevalent in Ghana most, in our courts in Ghana, all matters in courts in Ghana, I'd say 70% relate to land disputes

Hameed:

And the funny thing is, my friend that got scammed, he's also a lawyer,

Richard:

Yes, absolutely. nobody's exempt.

Hameed:

so, he was sending messages like, I'll take you to court. I'll do this together. Like, I'm already arrested. What else can you do?

Richard:

what can we do? I don't care anymore. Exactly.

Hameed:

oh god. Okay. One more example, then I have to ask you the main question that has been on my mind since you started telling me about all of this.

Richard:

no problem at all. I was just gonna say that 70% of the cases in Ghana, in our courts, relate to some form of land dispute. Right. So, to echo what you just told me, we represented a hotel that was being built. The owner as part of that hotel, wanted to create a dry cleaners, right? And, they'd come across someone that was selling a piece of land in a prime neighborhood. And so they naturally informed us, but that information came with an SOS, we needed to get it done. ASAP. Now due diligence is the order of the day when anybody and anyone's listening is gonna, thinking about buying land in Ghana, triple DD, triple due diligence, right? Especially when it looks too good to be true. So imagine our client saying to us, I want this'cause she's obviously excited. It's a still, it's a great deal. She wants to get it over and done with before somebody else. You subs her and we say to her, please allow us to do our thing. She actually wanted to give the guy the money straight away and we said, no, no, no, So, in fact there was a degree of conflict between her and us.

Hameed:

Mm.

Richard:

Suffice to say about four days later, she agreed reluctantly, she'd given us money to give to the guy, let's say a quarter of the price. We'd given it to him and she wanted to get this wrapped up within a week, two weeks, the most. And we said, just let us do our thing. The fourth day as I am walking, well, I'm getting outta the car to meet with her and my partners. I get a call, the person says to me, look at a particular newspaper. The front page on that front page is this guy plastered all over the picture with the headline syndicate dupes another person. And what they've been doing, they've been identifying land that belongs to foreign owners are working in cahoots with people like the Lands Commission to create or duplicate documentation to demonstrate genuineness, and then selling it at such a steal to unsuspecting buyers get the money and off they go.

Hameed:

So they were working with the Land Commission. That's a governmental organization.

Richard:

Exactly. And by the time he was depicted in the newspaper, 17 people had been duped. actually, I think our client was poised to be the 17th.

Hameed:

God,

Richard:

Yeah, yeah. There's multitude of stories I can

Hameed:

on, let'ts not go

Richard:

no, I wont

Hameed:

because this leads me to the main question. if things are this crazy in Ghana, in Africa, in general, why? Why did you decide to stop what you're doing in the uk, go to Ghana and set up a law firm, and why is your law firm still running there if all of this wahala is happening? Basically.

Richard:

There is wahala of course of that. There's no doubt. So a couple of things, it is no coincidence. I think that, perhaps people who are less blessed than I am who happen to be non Ghanaian. White, Syrian, Lebanese tend to be very successful, even Chinese, very successful in Ghana. Right? So in spite of the chaos, in spite of the issues I've alluded to, there is opportunity. So it's about perspective,

Hameed:

explain

Richard:

so, yeah. and I have to say, for the most part, I don't take a great deal of joy in highlighting the ills of Ghana or places like Ghana because I think it's a well trodden path. A lot of people do that. It's easy to do. So this is an opportunity for me to demonstrate, or at least try and show the other side of the coin. For all the ills that exist in Ghana, there are massive opportunities, right? For example, just the way I think, just the way my partners think distinguishes us for most of our peers. in Law in Ghana, right? An example if you and I had a dispute, okay? And let's imagine for this discussion, we represent two different people. So we're both lawyers, okay? And my case was stronger than yours, let's say, for argument's sake. And I said to you, Hameed, why don't we sit down, discuss how we can resolve this issue rather than spend four or five years in court. Perhaps we don't know the outcome. It could be frustrating, but it's gonna be a lot of money and the only beneficiary is gonna be you and I. So let's try and cut to the chase and resolve it.

Hameed:

Mm-hmm.

Richard:

The predominant mindset in Ghana is because I have reached out to you in spite of the merits of my case, you were perceived that I'm weak and I feel my case is weak and therefore you will try and bend me over.

Hameed:

I see.

Richard:

Do you see I.

Hameed:

Yeah. But that, how is that a good thing?

Richard:

It's not a good no. I'm coming to it. that's the prevalent my view, prevalent perception amongst most of my bredren in Ghana. Right. So because of that, we've taken a different approach. And so because we're able to provide a service with a different approach, a different perspective, we capitalize. Because don't forget, business people, wherever they are in the world, have one thing in mind. Exactly. They don't wanna go to court. Time is money. They don't wanna waste their time. Especially when we have a system that means an issue as simple as, do you owe me money or not? Could last five years.

Hameed:

Wow

Richard:

Do you see what I'm saying? and by the time you've got satisfaction, you're not even, it is a hollow of victory. because it's so far down the line. You may not even be dead. You may not even be alive. Right. So there's no, justice is meant to be speedy. in our law books, it makes the point. rule one says expedition. the case must be prosecuted expeditiously. And yet we do anything. But, so anyway, I say all that to say this because of those issues. When we approach our clients, we do a number of things. We're able to immerse ourself if they're a company or if they're a business in their business, so that we can be preemptive rather than reactive. And I remember telling you that there is no glass ceiling in Ghana,

Hameed:

in the uk.

Richard:

in the uk, right? And so the prospects of me kind of scaling the heights is a lot higher in Ghana than it perhaps it is here. I'm not saying it can't happen here. Of course it can. But I think balance of probabilities is probably like more likely in Ghana than is here. Whereas here, the system works. it is very organized and you definitely can take over, sustain yourself, maybe even have an above average lifestyle. But to have a life changing transformation, it probably is gonna be in Ghana. So for all the risks, for all the ills, the fact that there's no safety net, feel it's a great opportunity to embark on. And lastly, the other thing that gives us an advantage is there are people, I'm sure you know this as well in Ghana, who have issues in the UK and vice versa. And so if we can become the bridge to provide them with that access point, for example, someone dies, they need a state. in fact, I've got a case right now where, a father has died in Ghana, had some assets here. They can't get here. They need someone to explore what it is, how it is, so that they can repatriate the money back to them in the uk. and of course, they say that, when you can provide a solution to a problem, you are onto something.

Hameed:

Yeah,

Richard:

So we identify the problems and we turn it around to see how we can provide solutions.

Hameed:

I'm interested in one thing you said. with the perspective of Ghanaian lawyers, they just see it as, if you are coming to me that you wanna come to the table and you wanna negotiate, I mean, it's, you're weak, so I'm going to try to bend you over. How do you capitalize that and use that to your advantage? That's what I don't understand. How, because if you go to your clients and you say, we are not trying to waste your time in court. we are expeditious, we will make your cases go very quickly, we'll save you money, we'll save you time. But then every time you interact with another Ghanaian lawyer, they're like, oh, you're coming to me. I'm gonna try to bend you over. do you just allow them to do it? how do you still speed it up whilst winning the case?

Richard:

I've been a firm believer in the following philosophy. There are no such thing as mistakes. It's just experiences from which we learn. The question is, are we learning? And with those experiences, hopefully as you're learning, you are developing, and therefore you're becoming a better version of yourself today than you were yesterday.

Hameed:

yeah, agreed.

Richard:

the first time I, and let me be straight, I'm not saying this is true of all ghanaian laws because I've not dealt with all ghanaian lawyers, some of whom I've dealt with, and some of the feedback I've got reflects this philosophy, right? So my experience of that was, it was a rude awakening the first time it happened. may I give you an example?

Hameed:

yeah. Sure. I like examples.

Richard:

Very good. we had a client who held from the states. It may have been Maryland. Maryland or the tri-state, you know the tri-state, right. DC Maryland. or Virginia. Right. And she came to Ghana because her husband had left part of the plan, gone to Ghana, intending to set up, and then when the Dasa settled, she was gonna join him. Two and a half years later, he's still in Ghana. She doesn't hear from him. She now at all, she now discovers

Hameed:

What? Her husband, she doesn't hear from her husband at all. Like he goes cold, Turkey, silent,

Richard:

he radio silent. Right, she then discovers, he secured a job with a bank as a risk manager.

Hameed:

Mm-hmm.

Richard:

He's opened an account in her name. He's taken out a few loans. In her name with Wells Fargo in America. So she's only becoming aware of it because now they're sending her demand letters, right? He bought a car in her name, which he exported to Ghana. Okay? So she's coming to us a, she wants to divorce, recoup as much of the money as she can,

Hameed:

Mm

Richard:

and basically take him to task. Now, far as we were concerned, this was a foregone conclusion. It was like you either did it or you didn't. There's no InBetween agree. and we've got documentation that demonstrates

Hameed:

that you did it

Richard:

right? So we reach out a to the guy and he throws it back in our face. We said, fine, please put us in contact with your lawyer and the lawyer. When we say to the lawyer. we don't take any pride in taking your client to task. Right? Our client wants this. Make a whole, we can finish it. The end of it, he can continue working. Remember, he's working in a bank as a director of even a director of risks or the risk manager, one of the two, right? The lawyer throws it back in our face because he feels we are weak and therefore, once the bend is over, okay, so now we turn up the heat

Hameed:

but you have the evidence and everything.

Richard:

I honestly, I can't give you the why. I can only tell you what transpired. You can make of it what you will. Maybe I appreciate. I'm not as smart as I sound or look. I know I'm a 3-year-old, so maybe it was evident to them, so, you know, but here's what we did as an example of how we turned it around. This, here's what we did.

Hameed:

Mm.

Richard:

We made sure he got sacked from the bank. We sued the bank

Hameed:

Ooh.

Richard:

Yes. For not having oversight because the guy had committed some element of fraud and He's your head of risk he's a fraudster. Hello. You, you see that. Right. So we sued the bank. and also he'd opened an account in her name without her authority. in fact, the bank is no longer in existence today. But we sued the bank. We were able to get the money, most of the money back. We were also able to absolve her from any repayments because we redirected Wells Fargo to him now. and that's an example. I'm just giving you the short version. That's an example of how. Once we raised the up the ante, his lawyer was overwhelmed. Right? there's something about zes advocacy, right?

Hameed:

What did you say?

Richard:

Zealous advocacy. you're very robust in your approach. But our, we always work on the basis that our initial approach is conciliatory. Let's sit down and resolve it. And sometimes they confuse that approach for weakness or, and I will say this, I've come across many of my peers who don't read their briefs. The main objective is to go into court and seeking an adjournment. So that shortcut mentality seems to be prevalent in my view. And so it gives us an opportunity to kind of capitalize on that, if I can put it that way. One more example. very good one. You imagine you borrow money from a bank

Hameed:

Yeah.

Richard:

to build your development or to do a development, right? The bank is taking you through hoops to give you that money that you are gonna pay for. And you've indicated in the agreement that the payment will come from the proceeds of your development. You need the money as a matter of urgency to complete the project. Let's say we're in December. Now, let's say the project must be completed by March. Okay? you have an agreement with an offtaker who's gonna buy that project upon completion in March, but it must be completed in March. That's why you asked for the loan. They grant you the loan. You don't get the money until seven months later. Meanwhile, you are still paying the interest on the loan.

Hameed:

What?

Richard:

Thank you. You can't make it up. and then the bank had the cheek for when he is unable to pay to foreclose on his home, which was given as collateral for the loan.

Hameed:

But they didn't even give the money yet.

Richard:

Now you're with me. So we sued the bank and won successfully as we speak. They've appealed, they lost the trial. Five years later,

Hameed:

Mm

Richard:

they've lost the appeal. It's now going to the Supreme Court.

Hameed:

and they want to appeal that too

Richard:

they want to appeal that to, and of course the longer it goes on, the more, the interest keeps rolling over. But that's just an example of how some might call it absurd. Some might call it, maybe it's just justice desserts. I don't know. But I hope I've given you enough flavor to think about it's a headache

Hameed:

you really have. there was a thing you said that I wanted you to clarify just for the sake of our audience in case they're not, you said most lawyers want to get to courts and seek an adjournment. What does that mean?

Richard:

Okay, remember I told you about rule one of our law, right? Our high court rules talks about expedition. We must prosecute our cases expeditiously. Okay? That means every time there's a hearing, you're supposed to progress the matter,

Hameed:

Mm-hmm.

Richard:

okay? Sometimes through no one's fault, you just can't progress it for whatever reason, because there are too many loose ends and not all, they're not always come together at the same time. But some of my Bredren and cistern it is always become an art form their sole mission when they go into court armed with a diary, only a diary will go into court and tell the most incredulous stories, seeking that the matter be put over to another date without any. constructive work being done on that day.

Hameed:

I see. So that's what an, adjournment is trying to just postpone the thing, constantly.

Richard:

yeah pretty much,

Hameed:

how does that help their client, their defendant?

Richard:

I don't know how and some no. To be fair, sometimes it is at the behest of their client. I've come to realize that our courts in Ghana are sometimes used as a way to a number of things. One, to frustrate people, bully people, or, just kind of delay the inevitable. Gives them time to hopefully it'll frustrate you to the point where you don't wanna pursue it anymore.

Hameed:

basically you can maneuver the system.

Richard:

Yeah, to contrast, the two in here, in this country, if you issue proceedings and it is deemed to be without devoid of merit, it won't go past stage one or I should say ordinarily it won't go past stage one. It'll be kicked back and saying, this case is devoid of merit. Or if it gets past stage one, the recipient can say, judge, strike this case out, because it doesn't have any merit. It doesn't show a cause of action. In other words, there are checks and balances.

Hameed:

Mm-hmm.

Richard:

We don't have that in Ghana

Hameed:

I see.

Richard:

as an example. You owe me money, right? You don't pay me. I issue proceedings. You answer in your defense, yes, I owe you money, but I don't have the money just yet. How is that a defense?

Hameed:

Well, what you want me to do?

Richard:

Right, exactly. back then. And so you'll get your money because obviously you put it on paper that you admit that you owe the money. But another example of where negotiations would've been better, but no. Spend money. it's a dichotomy

Hameed:

I think this links to the problem, of a lack of strong institutions that we face in many African countries. and, with addressing the judicial, I always struggle with that word judicial system in Ghana. and how does that reflect across the rest of the country, like other parts of the governmental institutions? Like, because I assume that whatever corruption or maneuvering is being done in the courts can also be done outside of the courts in other parts of the government. what practical steps can be taken, do you think, to disrupt the cycle change things?

Richard:

it is a very good question, and I'm grateful to you for asking that question because you're right, we ought to focus on solutions. I think it starts with every man, woman, and child, to have a vested interest in the outcome of how Ghana or countries like Ghana end up being, right. if there's this apathy towards the country, then we become strangers in our own country because we then let our countries dictate our philosophies, our way of life,

Hameed:

and that's what's happening right now in a lot of African countries, right? I feel like they're not dictating their own economic futures. we're not economically independent. Basically we're out of reliance on the dollar rates or we're reliance on this, yeah, that's like the normal standard. how do we fix that?

Richard:

I have a very good friend who I must introduce you to who I think I told you was once an independent candidate, president in 2008.

Hameed:

oh in ghana?

Richard:

Hmm. Him and I talk a lot and, we always try and figure out if there's any solutions we can conceive of and maybe, and roll it out. one of the things we, all we talked about was when crypto was the business, in fact, crypto's still very much alive, but when it was at his pump,

Hameed:

Hmm.

Richard:

we often wondered why any African government would not, instead of using the dollar as the benchmark of their commodities, translate that to crypto.

Hameed:

Well, I would say it's because crypto, a lot of them, apart from Bitcoin, a lot of them were just scams pyramid schemes

Richard:

Sure, but that's because the creator of that scheme. But imagine if you, instead of tying your commodity to the dollar, you tied it to your currency, but it's a crypto form currency.

Hameed:

I see. Stable Coin

Richard:

yeah. Call it Ghana coin or whatever, right? suddenly whenever you are selling, you are getting the money, which is because never forget right now our currency, Ghanaian currency Right. Suffers whenever the dollar goes up,

Hameed:

Yeah. I think it was yesterday that Kawell was saying that just the Ukraine war, affected the Ghanaian economy terribly.

Richard:

Exactly.

Hameed:

would've guessed that.

Richard:

believe me, and I wasn't gone at the time, and it was in fact, it gets to a point where I feel bad because the spike has a very significant impact on, as is always the case, people at the low end of the spectrum. Right? It doesn't affect those at the top because of course they can massage. to answer your question, that's one.

Hameed:

Sorry. Before we move on, can you just explain for our listeners how the Ukraine war, affected the Ghanaian economy? because some people might not know that.

Richard:

So, Rightly or wrongly, most stocks are affected by world events, good or bad, right? Ghana is susceptible because it's highly dependent. In fact, although we don't use the dollar, most people trade in dollar

Hameed:

Ghana.

Richard:

in Ghana. right now, I think the Ghanaian dollar is about 18 to$1, something like that, or maybe 16, 16 to$1

Hameed:

The Ghanaian currency is called Ghanaian dollar.

Richard:

no, no Cedi the Ghanaian Cedi you'll get about 15, let's say 15 cities to one,

Hameed:

Dollar

Richard:

one US dollar, right?

Hameed:

people trade in dollar. Why instead of Cedies? Because.

Richard:

Because the dollar holds it's value, the city doesn't.

Hameed:

Okay.

Richard:

So if I'm selling you something, I want to sell it to you in dollar, because even if you gimme the dollar a month, a year later, it's still a

Hameed:

still be Yeah.

Richard:

versus,

Hameed:

Cedies that go up and down and if you can, why does the Cedies go up and down Very briefly?

Richard:

Because it's not pegged against anything or value.

Hameed:

Okay.

Richard:

So it's almost like it's in the wind and if the wind blows, so does our currency, right? You think a country that like ours that's blessed with a whole range of resources would be in a position to peg our currency against our commodities so that it's not susceptible, but it's not the case. Now, is it because I am smart? Absolutely not. There are people who are smarter than me that are in our government or were in our government that ought to know better to how we can secure our currency so that it's not susceptible to huge fluctuations. Right. But it doesn't serve their right interest to do that.

Hameed:

It doesn't serve their interest. That's a very good point. It doesn't serve their interest to make the cities a stable currency and improve Ghana, even though they are Ghanaian and they run the country and this is what they represent. It doesn't serve their interest to make the country better.

Richard:

that's my view a hundred percent. I think the predominant, prevailing view is how can I benefit from this, me and mine, rather than how can we, there's no we mentality. There tends to be an I mentality. I mine. And that's why Ghana to this day, because anyone that knows anything about Ghana will know that we are richly resourced. We now have oil, diamonds, oxide, gold, extra, and yet we have the highest rates of poverty, homelessness, sick illness. People die very early. There's so much that demonstrates. we, people have had operations under torch lights and we have a dam. we we can't guarantee electricity 24 7 in Ghana. Water

Hameed:

what you've just said now relates pretty well to what you said earlier when I was asking what steps could be taken. You said, we need to get people to have a vision what was it that you said?

Richard:

I reiterate? I think the first step would be the, and this is the easiest step to educate people about the value of their vote to date. My view, most voters feel as though there's no value. So they are willing to sell it for top knee happens to whoever's willing to buy it, right? And even when they've exercised their votes, they don't appreciate they can hold the person they've elected accountable and make them responsible for the promises they've made.

Hameed:

Hmm.

Richard:

Okay. So the minute that enlightenment kicks in, suddenly the elected official can't act with impunity.

Hameed:

Yeah. But do they know how to Hold these people responsible.

Richard:

what I'm saying. So there needs to be a system of educating these people, the populace about the value of the vote and what responsibility it comes with, and therefore how they can hold these people accountable.

Hameed:

Civic Education

Richard:

Exactly. So once we do that, suddenly our elected officials will, to use an expression in Ghana, will be steady. They'll know they can't just, duck and dive and everything's hunky dory. Right. They can't just talk CAC in parliament and hope they get away with it. and again, I want to illustrate an example, if I may. I think it was when Tony Blow was in power, it must have been 2007 thereabouts. Jack Straw and Malcolm Rifkind. Were caught in a sting. And that sting was, both of them had indicated, merely indicated they were willing to use their position to gain money.

Hameed:

Mm.

Richard:

So people wanted to meet somebody, they'll use their position as introduction, get introduction fee, that type of thing done it. That indicated their willingness. So to do

Hameed:

mm.

Richard:

it became such a saga jack store resigned Jack Store, was the home secretary at the time he resigned. Okay. Can you imagine something like that happening in Ghana or countries like Ghana? They haven't even done it. That's how integrity's on a different level, right? They hadn't even done anything wrong. They just indicated there's a willingness to do that. In other words, I'm willing to do this. I wanted to bend the rules to achieve this, and they resigned in Ghana, that would never happen.'cause even when they've done it, they're gonna double down. So if the populace have appreciated their vote, hold them accountable, then there's an outcry. When there's an outcry, it now puts more pressure on the individual who's flouted their responsibility, their rules or not adhered to what they've promised. Then they start realizing that I can't act anyhow. I want, I can't act with impunity. I am responsible to the people who elected me. Civic Duty

Hameed:

Civic Education

Richard:

Civic education. So that's one. There are many more we could do. easiest one is, charity begins at home.

Hameed:

Okay.

Richard:

my view is a lot of our people. looking to somebody else to solve their problems, even in the immediate environment.

Hameed:

Yeah. I know exactly what you mean. I call it learned helplessness.

Richard:

Exactly. Thank you. I couldn't put it better. That's why you're smarter than me. I couldn't put it better. 100%. I mean, people would defecate and pee in their own domain and then complain how smelly is, you know what I mean? so there's gotta be this sense of, it's called a, what's the word? self-fulfilling prophecy. If you don't believe in the value of what you've got and therefore protect it, enhance it, and grow it, then you are only gonna sabotage it. You're only gonna demean it. You're only gonna undermine it. And so those are some of the basic, and cost is nothing just to inspire. Our people to appreciate what they have, what they are, where they come from, who they put in power. I don't even know if there's a natural debate amongst the populists, the voters as to why Mr. X or Mrs. Y has been voted in. I just feel they just do it. we just had an election December 7th. Prior to that, I'm told some would go to a neighborhood and offer food in the hope that would get votes. Some would offer money in the hope that would get votes as opposed to having a discussion in a town hall. We don't have a town hall, but something like a town hall where you're discussing what you can do for the community, how you can improve the community. Zero

Hameed:

I see. I wanted to thank you for this, by the way, I wanted to go back and address a few things. cause when you were saying, some of these things, it was triggering points in my mind. But, I didn't want to interrupt, oh, I don't think we ever got to explain properly why the Ukraine War was affecting Ghana, but but I think it was mostly to do with the fact that, the oil prices went up because Russia is such a huge supplier of oil.

Richard:

Oh, absolutely

Hameed:

and when the oil prices go up, the dollar goes up. And because Ghana is so reliant on the dollar, that meant everything went up in price.

Richard:

Yeah, because our buying power decreases,

Hameed:

yes. people that would usually buy bread or egg for a particular price, everything went up four times the price, including the breads and the eggs and, all of that because the dollar's gone up. yeah, the dollar rate went up and the Cedies can't keep up with it, I guess.

Richard:

Yeah, remember I said to you if you gimme a dollar today or a year later, it's still a dollar, right? If you gimme 10 cedies today, what it can buy today is not what it can buy tomorrow or what it bought yesterday. Can't buy today because it's devalued. that's the susceptibility of our currency

Hameed:

And that's why the war affected the Ghanaian economy. and the other thing you said about, civic education is something that, I've actually had a conversation with another friend of mine about, and it's something that I also believe might be a good solution to this. cause when I speak to a lot of people and I'm trying to understand what we can do, to take charge of our own destiny and change things and make Africa great again, I guess, it always comes down to a mindset shift. And I think that's related to the thing you said about the politicians when you said it's all about I instead of me. And then you also said the same thing when you were like, charity begins at home. and also when you said the people need to look inwards and have a vision. like a communal vision. all of that relates to a mindset shift. and that's something that I've been thinking about how to achieve. And it always comes down to Education for me. I mean that's partly why I'm doing this podcast cause I'm trying to spread that education so that we can achieve this mindset shift.

Richard:

hmm.

Hameed:

But I'm also, separate from doing this podcast, I'm also working on an educational platform that hopefully will be the platform to be able to share about the civic education matters in a very easy to understand whether everybody can really get, that's just one of the things that I'm working on that triggered my mind when you mentioned it. so yeah, I just wanted to share that as well.

Richard:

no, thank you. And that's why you're such an inspiration and long way that continue. for what it's worth, if there's anything I can do to assist, do not hesitate to let me know because like you, I feel there are so many of us out there collectively we can perhaps make some small indent in this journey, in the hope of transforming the mindset because you don't know what you don't know. And I, I'll accept that. and you may have heard me say this to you, that I genuinely believe that Ghanaians are resistant to change

Hameed:

Well go on.

Richard:

okay. So it is not uncommon when somebody's trying to do something new.

Hameed:

Mm

Richard:

The resistance is leave it the way it is. It's not broken. why change it? Right? But meanwhile, your environment hasn't changed, or your existence hasn't improved, right? And so just because you've gotta learn something new. I've gotta a perfect example. A mechanic I've used since 2004, five, six. Lovely guy, right? But as you know, with every passing year, the car, the way it's made requires a different set of skills

Hameed:

it becomes more electrical,

Richard:

Very good. Today most cars require computer skills. Cause you kind of log on to the computer on the car to identify what's wrong with it. So it gives you a self-diagnosis or some description, right? You can't do that if you're not. With how A your reading machine works and B, how to understand cause it may not give you English, it may have symbols and what not Right now, this mechanic, he's actually an auto electrician. Lovely guy. Got married two and a half years ago and I said to him, look, you need to start thinking about where you are and if you want to keep working in this line, what you should be doing because the future, of course a lot of us don't think about the future, the here and now.

Hameed:

Because we are the future.

Richard:

Exactly. So I said to him, think about the future. Do what you need to do to make sure you are equipped because there'll come a point when the cars you are working on are no longer in existence. Or maybe they're far and few between. Did he listen to me? Absolutely not. Now his skillset is redundant. Why? Because he doesn't have the skills to deal with cars, most of which are now have got computers on board.

Hameed:

Hmm.

Richard:

Lovely guy.

Hameed:

my question is what can we do? what can the African diaspora, those of us in the UK. What can we do to, help to reshape the narrative, to drive the change that we want to see? Because you've mentioned a few things about change. You've mentioned mindset shift, you've mentioned education, and you mentioned, stabilizing the currency. those are the three main things that you identified. So Yeah. How can we add to that,

Richard:

Can I preface what I'm about to say with the following? I think it is right to say it's not fair for us living in diaspora to assume we know and therefore when we say it should be adopted, hook, line, and sinker. That's not what I'm saying. And I think everybody would agree that would be. It's someone like me coming into your house and telling you how to live. that's not healthy. However, I also feel like with a brainstorming group, we should all be willing to accept no idea is a bad idea. Let's just extrapolate the good ones that are workable and work with it. Right? So there must be a healthy desire to engage with our brothers and sisters back home. Okay. There must be a willingness to understand why they do what they do in the manner that they do it, and why we feel there's a better way to do it. And I'll use my grandmother as an example. I think I told you she had a tendency to visit our village whenever she wanted. Even though phones existed, she would not call. She would go, sometimes she would come back and say, the person I went to see wasn't there. I came back and we were like, why didn't you call? She said, that's the way I've always done it. I'm not gonna change it. For her. the jeopardy was hers and hers alone. Right. In this instance, not willing to embrace the new, the how. The when could be not only jeopardy for you, your children. Another example, some illiterates send their kids to school, right? And their kids need help. They won't pay for the help cause they can't afford it. They can't help their children cause they don't understand it. So the child is left frustrated. What happens? They leave school, right? So if we could set up like Kuma, you know, we have Kuman centers here, right? Something like that, or empower the teachers to give these schools extra lessons. Maybe create a fund or some description and believe me, some of these kids are very, very bright. They just don't have the opportunity. I've seen kids come from village schools old, but so their mindset is childish maybe they've got life skills, but not educational skills. And I accept not everybody's an educationalist or an academic, but to marry the two when we, and raise the level of our countries, and I mean, I'm saying this across the continent, raise the levels of our country such that they can make choices rather than just accept what's given to them. And I think that's key.

Hameed:

okay, so those in the diaspora for we would need to contribute to this educational development in some way. If we can find a way to do this knowledge share, with everyone on the continent, then we will be onto something

Richard:

absolutely. let me ask you this, you've been doing this far longer than I have. I'm merely a mere cog in a very big wheel. In your engagements with other more renowned personalities, have you ever extrapolated from them how the shift, the mindset shift can happen? Because I say this, I tell you why I ask that. A lot of people I know in Ghana have given up. On the idea that during their lifetime there'll be any transformation worthy of chat of chatter, and then now it moves to our children. What about our children? Are they gonna be experiencing the same apathy? You? And so I just wanted to know, have you heard anything from those? More eminent than myself

Hameed:

Um, I would say the only thing that I've heard is to start young. and this is also why I'm in ed tech in general because I feel like education is the key for uplifting Africa and, we have the youngest population, we're gonna have a quarter of the world's population by I think 2050 or something like that.

Richard:

Yep.

Hameed:

with regards to how this mindset shift can happen, what I've extrapolated from people that I've spoken to is usually to start young, but as to how to make it happen, to be honest, the idea has mostly been from my perspective when looking at how I can use tech to achieve that. and that's really what I've been focusing on how I can use technology to create something that is engaging. to create education that isn't just boring, but also engaging on fun and basically revolutionize the continent.

Richard:

you're right.

Hameed:

that's a very good question that you pose to me. I think I'm gonna start asking everyone now, when everyone identifies a mind shift, I'd be like, how do we do that? How can we

Richard:

Yeah, at the end of the day, there's never gonna be one definitive answer. It's gonna be a series of things that needs to be done because we all react to things differently. Right. but I generally feel as though self-worth, how we engender, how we inspire, how we convey

Hameed:

U They do say that a lot. Our history, our identity is important and that we should know that take charge of our own stories. that is the beginning of the mindset shift. That's the foundation and from there we start shifting.

Richard:

Yeah. there's a book I read by a doctor called Dr. Chris Willan. It says, the Miseducation of the Negro. And it makes the point, and it's very disheartening, but it's so, so true. You don't have to put a man in shackles to control them once you control their brain.

Hameed:

Yeah.

Richard:

And unfortunately, I'm sad to say most of our people on the continent are still shackled without physical shackles. Right? So we need to do what we can. To open their minds to believe when they see themselves in the mirror, they should be proud because quite frankly, the brain, I mean, it's alarming and I'm sure you've come across this where a doctor, an accountant would leave the homeland, go to a foreign country and do Menial labor in the hope of earning more money and be demeaned.

Hameed:

Mm.

Richard:

Do you know what I mean? and that reminds me of some of the things that in the sixties that Malcolm X was talking about,

Hameed:

Yeah.

Richard:

not giving the opportunity. So if you can't get your opportunities in your own country, of course you go somewhere else and do that. And why don't we have opportunity to go? Because we have some of the biggest sick populations in our countries. So there must be the need for doctors, but then they're operating under torch lights, you know what I mean? Or the hospitals are ill resourced. So the it is gotta happen collectively. But it's gotta start with belief, appreciation of self, back to what Julia said yesterday. Gratitude.

Hameed:

Belief, appreciation of self and gratitude.

Richard:

yeah.

Hameed:

Thank you Julia.

Richard:

Absolutely, absolutely,

Hameed:

Oh, before we wrap off, and I have one last question that I ask, which is about giving back to the community. But before I ask that, I just realized we didn't even touch on the work you do in the uk. so let's just try to touch on that very briefly. Can you tell me a little bit about the work that you do in the uk, especially around, black youths in the uk and, how you are trying to help and change things?

Richard:

in a nutshell, I hope to be an back to what Julia was saying, be an ambassador. I was a bit of a rebel when I was growing up. I actually got arrested, which is how I ended up being a lawyer. And it dawned on me that although I failed the attitude test, which is why I got arrested, it must be similar for most young black men today. And so I hope having used a very, I call it turn adversity into triumphtate, having used, turn a negative into a positive, I can inspire other uses that I come across and to believe in that they're worth more, should invest more, and they should believe more.

Hameed:

goes back to what you're saying that God needs as well, believe in self.

Richard:

Absolutely, absolutely,

Hameed:

so the connection between the black youth in the UK and af, I guess Africans globally, is that self-belief, and belief in self. We need to increase that in general. I think that's the first step to this mindset shift. We just cracked it.

Richard:

we did. Absolutely. Yeah. Absolutely.

Hameed:

yeah, that is the first step to the mindset shift. The first step for Africans globally is belief in self, belief in your self-worth,

Richard:

Absolutely.

Hameed:

proud of who you are. That's the first step.

Richard:

Yeah, 100%. that's pretty much it. I used to do, self development talks to the black adolescent youth, right? Or I used to call them delinquent adolescent youth. And so I'd start the conversation with, who wants to be rich? Everybody raise their hand, famous, powerful, they'll raise their hand, and I'd ask, I'd raise their five hand note and say, who wants this? And they would've raised their hand. I must have done it about 150 times. Can you tell me the number of times somebody walked up to me and took the five, five note

Hameed:

Zero, obviously, because you

Richard:

times?

Hameed:

come get it Oh, 3 Times!,

Richard:

Only three times. and, but it was illuminating because that was a great opening for me to say to them, guess what you most of us aspire to, but don't do what's required to get it.

Hameed:

Okay.

Richard:

And therein lies the point. We can talk all day, but unless we take action, it's taken us one step closer to the goal. We'll never attain it.

Hameed:

Amazing. This is really cool. I didn't even know you got arrested, when you were younger. that's something that we didn't cover cause we jumped straight to Ghana. We didn't even cover your upbringing and everything in the uk cause you were born and bred here. your native British person, with Ghanaian heritage. because we talked about Ghana so much, people would think that you spent most of your life in Ghana, but you actually spent a lot of your life here

Richard:

Yeah. Absolutely. Absolutely.

Hameed:

right now you are out here, trying to help the black youth, with regards to, guiding them in the right path, giving talks. But then also, I think you said you were helping them on the law side as well, right?

Richard:

Yeah. I mean, nothing formal. it's just in my work, I come across a lot of black youth and this is a sad one. I represented a 15-year-old boy who had allegedly stabbed his dad. Now, you know the phrase road man.

Hameed:

Yeah. Yeah.

Richard:

Well, his dad's a road man. Is it surprising that his son is mimicking what he sees? Right? it was sad because, the father almost died. The father was acting in a very. Antisocial manner whenever he came to court had fights with security staff, it was like, I'm talking about full blown fights. So he yeah. and his track record. And so you start to see, and I'm not criticizing him, I'm merely suggesting that apple and tree, there's a reason, right? how then do you impact this 15-year-old if his environment is be devilled with what he sees you, you mimic what you see. Right? So what I try to do when opportunity presents itself, tell the people my story as to look, I'm nothing special. I got arrested. I know what it's like to be where you are. I've been there, but luckily for me, I was able to turn it around. There's hope for you belief. So I try to instill in them. And it usually starts with, look, I know you are in trouble. My job is to try and either exonerate you or mitigate what you're exposed to, right? But I want you to think about what, if I had a wand, a magic wand. What would you want to do with your life? What are you good at? Most of them is sports, art, a whole range of things. But they've never thought about it because again, this is one of the disadvantages I feel as a black family group, we tend to lack, we're so busy trying to earn a crust that the family unit doesn't sit together to have dinner. Our Asian and white counterparts tend to do that. they understand what the children are going through, what they want to do, and they connect them. They use their, what my guy calls social capital,

Hameed:

Mm.

Richard:

right? So in my own little way, that's what I try to do, because I come across them a lot and I just the other day. A particular client refused to allow anybody to represent them unless it was someone that looked like me because he was a black child.

Hameed:

Mm.

Richard:

at least now beginning to see I've even had clients say to me, are you sure you are a lawyer? Cause they don't believe in their mind that black people can become lawyers. Right.

Hameed:

Yeah,

Richard:

So that's why you, sir, are an inspiration

Hameed:

you are an inspiration with the work you've been doing.

Richard:

Yeah. No, but you are because, educating us about our history is the first foundational step for us to stand and walk, talk. thank you.

Hameed:

Thank you. Thank you, thank you. Thank you very much. All right. Now I'm gonna, ask you the last question of giving practical advice to our listeners and so on before we wrap up, which is if you could leave the listeners with three actionable steps to empower, themselves or their communities, what would that be? this is going out to Africans globally cause that's cause that's what I'm trying to reach,

Richard:

Absolutely. number one would be appreciate where you are, what you are. Don't be moan it.

Hameed:

Don't be moan it

Richard:

Don't be moan it. In other words, don't complain about it be grateful for where you are, what you are, because you then have the opportunity if you don't like it to change it. See, being aware that you don't like what you've got is a huge seismic shift. A lot of people, remember we talked about it, unconscious incompetence. You dunno what you dunno, right? So people are walking along little oblivious to the fact that they don't like what they've got. So once you know where you are, be grateful for it. Be grateful for who you are and what you are. And if you now realize you don't like what you've got, that's great.

Hameed:

mm.

Richard:

Then implement or identify your direction because if you don't know where you are going, no matter how hard you try, you will never get there. So appreciate where you are, what you are, identify your direction, your journey, what you want, then look on how

Hameed:

To achieve. Okay. I was just gonna recap it and break it down into the four steps. you said, first of all, be aware, of where you are and what you're doing, and

Richard:

and appreciate that.

Hameed:

yeah. Once you're aware, be grateful.

Richard:

Yes.

Hameed:

After being grateful, set a direction of where you want to go

Richard:

Yes.

Hameed:

and then start taking steps to implement that.

Richard:

those are the four steps, but may I just end on the last one by saying this, I read a book by Darren Brown called Happy.

Hameed:

Hmm.

Richard:

It's a book that I would recommend to anybody including your good self sir because it demystifies some of the myths about, this notion of the world is a catalog. Just, think it into being and you'll get it right, which creates a lot more frustration than it's worth. what I would like people to understand is this, your journey is, your journey is not to be measured against anybody, is not to be measured against the speed or otherwise. You must enjoy that journey and it takes as long as it takes, as long as you are on that journey. What's important is that you are on the bike. You are on that road heading to that direction.

Hameed:

mm.

Richard:

It's not important how long it takes. It's not important how quickly it takes. It's important that you do it

Hameed:

Mm-hmm.

Richard:

and there's reveling the fact that you are doing it. So that's all I have to say.

Hameed:

Amazing. Thank you very much, Richard. yeah, just a recap of everything we've learned from Richard today. For the audience, the four steps actionable steps to empower, ourselves and our communities is to be aware of the states of either ourselves or our communities to be grateful for the good things within the community or within ourselves to then identify a direction of where we want our particular community to go. Keep in mind this could be, just your neighborhood, your school, your area, or just your group of friends. It just be four of you or something, just, you can start small, you can start with yourself, and then once you've identified that direction. Start taking actionable steps towards building that. that's what I'm trying to do with this podcast. so I'm happy about that. Another thing that Richard said that I think is actually quite important that we shouldn't forget about is another actionable step that we can do is to have dinner together as a family. So, any loved ones you have around you try to have dinner with your loved ones. Let's all try to do that thing where we eat together and not eat alone, and, see how that impacts our communities.

Richard:

Very true. No, thank you, Hameed. Thank you very much for giving me an audience. It's a true pleasure to be associated with you. You are a true inspiration. You are a pioneer. Never, ever forget that and keep doing the good work that you're doing. Well done.

Hameed:

Thank you.