Gundog Nation
A show to bring together gundog enthusiasts, trainers, and handlers with discussion focused on all breeds and styles of gundogs.
Gundog Nation
Gundog Nation #006: Barton Ramsey, Southern Oak Kennels
In this engaging conversation, Kenneth Witt interviews Barton Ramsey, the founder of Southern Oak Kennels, discussing his journey in the dog training industry, the importance of matching dogs with the right owners, and the unique breeding practices he employs. Barton shares insights into the challenges of running a successful business in the dog training world, the significance of UK breeding standards, and the diverse applications of retrievers beyond hunting. The conversation also touches on the impact of social media, the evolution of Southern Oak Kennels, and the future aspirations for the business, including new acquisitions and the legacy of past dogs.
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Hello and welcome to Gundog Nation. This is Kenneth Witt and I'm coming to you from Texas. I want you to know that Gundog Nation is more than just a podcast. It's a movement to unite those who want to watch a well-trained dog do what it's bred to do. Also, we are set out to try to encourage youth, to get encouraged in the sport of gundogs, whether it's hunting, competition, trials, hunt tests, all the above. This is a community of people that are united to preserve our heritage of gundog ownership and also to be better gundog owners. So, if you'll stay tuned to all of our episodes, we're going to have people on here to educate you about training, about nutrition, health. Anything can make you a better gundog owner. It's my pleasure to welcome our listeners and please join our community.
Speaker 1:All right, welcome to Gundog Nation. It's my privilege and honor to have a good friend of mine that I think I met probably back in late 2015, over the phone first, before I went there in person. But this guy is no stranger in the industry and I I don't know that we can even talk about all the hats that he wears, but we'll talk about the biggest hat he wears, and that's Southern Oak Kennels. But let me introduce Barton Ramsey. Barton, go ahead, you're much more well-known than me, but tell everybody who you are. That may not know.
Speaker 2:Man, I'm happy to be chatting with you and yeah, my name is Barton Ramsey, grew up here in Mississippi I do wear a lot of hats. Husband of 16 years, father of three Southern Oak Kennels is sort of my first kid that has been going on for about 12 years now and then also one of the co-founders of Cornerstone Gun Dog Academy, along with Josh, who you had on recently, and Keith Parvin, father and son duo. Yeah, man just in general, waterfowl and retriever enthusiasts and then sort of a jack of several trades, master of very few, maybe.
Speaker 1:I think that's not describing me, but on a smaller scale, physically smaller scale. Barton, how tall are you? Like 6'7 or something? I'm 6'5. Okay, maybe you just look that much to me. And then your cousin Stone he's not no shorter either. What's he about 6'4?
Speaker 2:He's 6'4, and his dad's 6'7. Jeez and I lived with them when I was in college and Stone was in high school, and so we used to have like these situations where, like Jehovah's Witnesses would come knock on the door and we would all three come out on the porch Of course we're all really nice and my uncle and I both had seminary degrees and we're talking to these guys about the Bible but they're, all you know, 5'8", 5'10" and you got a 6'4", 6' five and six, seven dudes sitting there it was.
Speaker 2:it was had to be a little intimidating. So that's a. It's a fun little group. That are my. My dad's side of the family is all a bunch of really tall guys.
Speaker 1:Well, he stones. He sure is a humble guy too. You know I've been going over there with him. He was, he trained a dog I bought from you guys that I love, love, absolutely love that dog. We'll talk about it a little bit. But you know he's so humble I didn't know anything about his background until you told me at the Cornerstone Retreat. You know I was like about his footballs, division I schools and anyway I digress. But he's a great guy, all y'all I'm just a big fan of.
Speaker 1:But Barton, I guess the way I found you, I think in the audience I'm trying to attract or that I'm trying to speak to, is people that you know are gun dog enthusiasts, not necessarily just retrievers, but that's what we're going to talk about today is retrievers. But you know I reached out to you looking for a dog to do antler shed hunting and you were brutally honest. This was a long time ago. You're like man, it's not really my gig, I don't know a whole lot about it, but here's what these dogs do and I I don't know probably had two or three. Then I end up buying a pace from you who's still alive, one of the best dogs ever owned.
Speaker 1:My ex-wife has, but uh, he, he was divorced, but it was, it was friendly, she, she. She has him now but he's retired. But uh, you know, the dogs I got were just exceptional. I couldn't get over it. And I was referred to you by Carly Farron at Northwoods and she's the one that told me about you and your dogs and man. Over the years I've had the best dogs I've ever owned have come from there and what I think is unique about you is that you have this some kind of I don't know how to describe it ability to place the right dog with the right owner and tell me how you do that. I mean, you've always done that with me and it's been perfect every time.
Speaker 2:There is definitely an aspect of luck involved, for sure, with, I say that, luck in the way of, let's say, maybe, cards. I'm trying my best to stack the deck in your favor. Um, through genetics, through health testing, uh, through you know, all the things that we try to to preemptively cover, uh, and then and then picking the parents. Really I've talked about this several times, I think you and I've talked about it I'm definitely not as keen on picking a puppy as I am on picking the right litter for somebody and trying to dive deep into the parents, the what's behind the parents, and are there any aspects of this pedigree that continuously pop up? So there are some behaviors that I mean and you don't always get it right.
Speaker 2:I mean I can think of a dog that we trained last year for a client and the dog was hot, I mean really hot, and Don sent me a video of the dog and said I want you to guess what litter this dog is from. I guessed three or four litters and he was like no, it's Cedar and Pep, which I know her name is Pep, but she was a very calm, docile dog. Cedar's very level-headed. This dog was a Ferrari. I never would have guessed that right, that's an outlier, but for the most part you can look and say, okay, moose, in general his puppies have these characteristics.
Speaker 2:This particular mom in general we've seen a few of her litters. We've usually seen litters from either her half siblings or her one of her parents and you get this general idea of a lineage and what comes from that. And in particular, when you see these dogs my dogs are all British Lab, so when you see them work in the UK and you know the personalities of the people who train them that's a huge part of it for me Then you can kind of know okay, well, ken, he kind of likes this in a dog. Then you can kind of know, okay, well, ken, he kind of likes this in a dog. And you know your best dog you ever had is not going to be necessarily the best dog someone else has ever had, but I know I kind of get an idea what you're asking for. And then when you combine that with, just in general, trying to breed smart dogs who are adaptable and trainable, you can usually get pretty close to hitting the bullseye.
Speaker 1:And we just mentioned this before we started. But one thing too, barton, is that you're not just buying random dogs, that you're looking at the title from across the ocean. You go to the UK, you go to the trials. You know the breeders, you know the handlers, you see these dogs work over there and then to the trials. You know the breeders, you know the handlers, you see these dogs work over there and then you make decisions based on that. Correct, yeah, explain on that, maybe, okay.
Speaker 2:I started important in 2000. I would like to say 2012 or maybe 13. I bought two bitches from Keith Matthews at Copper Birch and this was like so much of how it's all worked out has just been timing, like the Lord's timing in my life, and getting involved at a point when you could and there weren't so many others attempting to do it or doing it. Um, most of the guys that were importing at that point were significantly older than I was. So social media was like this place you could build a relationship with somebody and then get to know the dogs they had, and but at that time it was never a place where somebody was posting hey, here's some dogs for sale. As far as people in the uk, it was more less. Here's a video of this dog. Hey, that's really nice, I'd like to buy something like that. Well, let me see what I can find for you. So I I made a few friends over there.
Speaker 2:Um, fast forward a few years. I made a very good friend in Ireland. His name is Sean and, uh, he, he and I I mean he's been. He was at my house. We watched dogs work here in America. He's stayed with us and you know, he really was the first one who had a tight grasp on the type of dog that we needed and I liked here, and that was so helpful. I can't tell you how many times Sean would say, hey, I'm going to look at, I'm going to look at this dog, potential stud dog or something you might just want to sell, I'll let you know how it goes. And six hours later I get a text garbage. You know that was the dog was not what it was advertised. Well, I know for a fact. So many of those dogs within six weeks were coming to America. I mean, I saw them, I saw them posted on Facebook and no offense to the guys that bought them, but it was just like hey, I know that dog is socially terrified, or that dog doesn't like water, or that dog's got a bird chomping problem. There's all these things that you can't know until you have somebody experiencing it firsthand. And then I started going over there in 2015. There's all these things that you can't know until you have somebody experiencing it firsthand. And then I started going over there in 2015. And I've really gone every year, except for a missed couple during COVID. Travel was restricted, but that's been so fun. So fun to go over there and see the dogs and meet people and develop relationships that lead to bringing over what I would consider to be some of the best pedigrees and dogs that are in America. As far as British lines go, that I don't think. That happens off of just online. I'm not saying you have to necessarily go there to be successful, but for me it's what makes the most sense to say hey, I'll give you a great example.
Speaker 2:Your podcast will be the first place that this news is public. I'm not going to say the name yet. Thursday I'm picking up a new stud dog. Bought the dog Really have a client who is going to have this dog hunting with him, mostly in flooded timber, and the client wanted he's a good friend of mine, he and the guy he hunts with. They wanted a dog that was next level. Highest level is what they wanted and I knew of a dog that was not necessarily for sale but could be bought and we committed to purchasing this dog.
Speaker 2:It's a four-year-old, he's a field trial champion, he was more than double qualified for the IGL last year and we're having I'm sending videos of the dog, I'm sending photos of the dog and the best part was yeah. But the question to me was yeah, but don't you think they could just keep filming them until he did something right? You know? I mean, how is he all the time? And I was able to say well, I actually shot birds at a two day stake last year in Scotland on some very difficult ground and this dog won the trial. So I was able to see this dog retrieve for two days and absolutely kill it Right, and then he went and won multiple trials last year.
Speaker 2:So through that knowledge, somebody could probably go find out what dog it is. However, I don't know anyone that really wants to do that research and he'll be here Thursday. We'll make a big announcement. But, like, my firsthand knowledge of the dog is what makes me so confident that I you know hey, I know the guy that trained him, I the guy that trained him. I know eight or nine people who judged him that I can text and say, hey, what'd you see? And they're all like that's a nice dog. So you don't get that over. Just videos and Facebook posts.
Speaker 1:That's something else. Well, that's why I can honestly say, for anyone listening, that when I buy from Southern Oaks, I buy with confidence. I never, ever doubt that I'm not going to be satisfied. And so far, since, well, how many years is that? Seven, eight? That's what's happened.
Speaker 1:You know, barton, I was thinking before we, when you and I decided, you know, and I knew you were busy and I was just so happy to get you on here. I knew you were busy and I was just so happy to get you on here. But I was like you know, university of Mississippi or Mississippi State, if they're listening should have you come and teach an MBA course on how to start a business, because what you have done is really create an empire, and I mean that in all respect it's impressive. But you did it with integrity and honesty and morals, which I think is why it's flourished. But it's amazing what you've done, and we'll dive into it a little later. But you've got other ventures that we'll talk about too.
Speaker 1:But I was just thinking, man, you're an educated man and you can go to college and get an MBA, which I don't think you have. You have a college degree, I know you can go to college and get an MBA, which I don't think you have. You have a college degree, I know, but what you did? An MBA? They don't teach that stuff Well.
Speaker 2:I appreciate it. And a lot of trial and error, that's for sure. And the social media part is the highlight reel, right? Any business owner out there will know there's times where you're on top of the world and there's times where you're like man, I may just have to go get a job at FedEx or something.
Speaker 1:And you know, I know with success like yours, barton there's so much social media negativity and you seem to deal with that so well and we spoke I'm trying to talk about it, so it's so hard because I'm a talker so we spoke right before we started recording and I was like you know, martin, I actually realized I've kind of plagiarized something that you say in all your podcasts, because I always listen to your podcast, sometimes several times, and, and you know you're, you're trying to build bridges because you know I've heard you talk before about the divisions of what kind of camo you wear yourself, which I didn't realize that was a thing, but I'm an older guy, I don't get into that stuff and you're always doing that and reaching out to people that maybe not believe the way you do about dog training or what kind of dog you know, american Lab versus British Lab. You've got a great, an excellent podcast. I highly suggest that Barton does on the lab with Chris Rudd and it's so in-depth. I listened to it twice but it was. I mean, I thought I knew a lot and you guys just overwhelmed me with knowledge and it was so, so great.
Speaker 1:But anyway, sorry about that, barton, I digress, but anyway, building bridges is just something that you preach a lot, but, anyway, building bridges is just something that you preach a lot, and actually you are an associate pastor, so I can't use that word in the right sense, but I love that and that's what I'm trying to do. The difference that what I do is I'm just. You know, first of all, I don't proclaim to be a training expert by any means, and we'll get into Barton's training philosophy here in a second too. I'm just a guy that wants to pick smart people like you and learn from them and let our listeners learn. So now, barton, I know when you started you were training heavily, and you tell me about that. I know that's evolved now. You're kind of a CEO type role now. But talk about that.
Speaker 2:Man, I started training. I did my first episode of the lab with my buddy Mark Harefield, who was a mentor to me. He taught me really the ins and outs of retriever training. Springer Spaniel training was more upland stuff. And then retriever non-slip retriever training training and I didn't have any like real. I didn't really have like a loyalty toward a side or anything like that in retriever training. I just did what I thought made the most sense to me and what I liked, and that was really a less, less pressure, non-compulsion style of training. And still use pressure and punishment, definitely not positive reinforcement only. That's a gross mischaracterization. You know we use slip leads and uh, I'm not anti e-caller or any of that stuff. I think with the podcast with chris rudd I think we cleared that up. That was a fun one. Thanks for mentioning yes, probably the most.
Speaker 2:I've had a lot of people from the uk text me about that one. That's probably the most in the weeds that I've gotten on that, which Chris is phenomenal human and trainer. So that made it a lot easier, and I did one with with Bob Evans too. That was, I think, really fun.
Speaker 1:Yeah.
Speaker 2:That one was more or less on force fetch. But, yeah, I started training and and I from, I would say, 2011 to 2000, really, 19 or 20, I had a string of dogs, you know, that were client dogs at all times and that would range from four to six dogs when I was just starting out and toward the end of that, but in the height of building Southern Oak kennels I might have anywhere from 10 to. I think the most I ever had was 17. And I had no help. I had a guy that helped me at the kennels, but I didn't have an associate trainer or anything like that. It was just me.
Speaker 2:And if you're going to be a professional dog trainer and pro trainers, they all understand this and Stone is a great example. So Stone lived with me to learn to train dogs. I only had a handful of client dogs. He had some client dogs that he was working underneath me and he learned a lot right. He was there for two years and then he goes out on his own and the first year there were a lot of.
Speaker 2:I mean, there's no offense to Stone, but there were a lot of mistakes. There were a lot of dogs that was like, hey, you need to go give those people an extra month for free to go back and redo some of this stuff that's been kind of missed or whatever. It's a learning experience. But then you fast forward a couple of years and you see dogs. He's training like that's a nice dog, it's really nice. You know how, and how do you get there so fast? Well, when you're every day training anywhere from 8 to 14 dogs, when you think about it, how many retrievers do you have right now? I know you don't have. You got your pup from us is up, up hunting, which is awesome, um, but, like in the middle of the spring, ken, you might have what two, three, maybe four retrievers. Max, max, right, usually most people have what one or two.
Speaker 2:Yes, so it's usually what I have usually yeah so to get to 50 training sessions, that's going to take you about a month, right whereas someone like stone or someone like when I started out, to get to 50 training sessions, that was in about three days, right.
Speaker 2:So it's such a progressive learning curve because you're stand, you're standing over a wider variety of personalities, of styles of learning. Now we're doing mostly British dogs and they are similar, however they're all different, right. So you're like, well, this one I can't work, just like that one, and so I get and you are experiencing that in a much faster pace, and so to be in that position was really fun for me to train these dogs. Mark Harefield trusted me with some of his client dogs at the beginning and I learned so quickly, just different, you know, through mistakes, through you know books, through DVDs, through Mark, through going to hunt tests and watching people and watching dogs and figuring out how people did things, uh, through especially going to the UK and training with some of my friends over there that I had made and and watching them and learning their drills. Um, it was, it was fun to learn. I did that for a while.
Speaker 2:It did get to a point to where you said CEO. I mean in a business my size, you're all the C's right, the C-suite, I'm sitting in it and it's on the first floor. But to run a business properly definitely recognized, I definitely recognized I couldn't do that and still train 12 client dogs all the time. It's just impossible and unfortunately I think a lot of people don't do that. And still train 12 client dogs all the time. It's just impossible and unfortunately I think a lot of people don't realize that and there's a short sightedness there and some people maybe just really love dog training and I do too and if it's your one passion and you want to just train dogs forever, then great, right, it's just if you want to build your business.
Speaker 2:It's very difficult if you're in the field because dog training is very demanding, it's a lot of time and taking care of kennels is demanding, and so I opted to go the route that allowed me to do what I think is best for a few things. Number one my family. I get to spend a lot more time with my kids. I'm not going to get these years back and my kids are not going to grow up and say I think my dad probably preferred the dogs to us, right? They're never going to be able to say that because I spend so much time with them. Number two, for Southern Oak Kennels. We can service a lot more people in a much more meaningful way when it's not just me. It was hard for me to let go of that. Truthfully, it was hard for me to say well I don't have to be the one.
Speaker 2:Right, it was. It was difficult. I wanted to be the one that trained the dogs, right, you get the glory you know you get. But I ended up uh, you know what I'm saying. So to give some of that away, I uh, yeah, to give some of that away. I uh, I gave it up to these guys and I have guys that work for me that are way better than me, like wally you know that dude can train a dog. Noah parsons, the only american to ever make up a British field trial champion. Yeah, I mean, that's those guys. Those are the guys I call when I'm like, hey, I can't figure this out with this dog. Well, they.
Speaker 2:So for Southern Oak kennels, for us to be more impactful and have a wider reach, that was still deep. Um, I had to kind of get out of the way. And so, yeah, I recognize that I still love dogs and I catch a lot of heat on used to at least catch a lot of heat on social media. You know me, I kind of own it. I'm like I'm not a dog trainer, I'm just a boat driver. I just kind of make jokes out of it. But I definitely made those decisions to hopefully do what's best for my family and our business and, yeah, it's been fun so far.
Speaker 1:You know, Bart, that's always been my philosophy in business. I worked in oil companies for a long time, as you know land manager, director of land, whatever, but anyway, I'd always told people my talent was finding people smarter than me. That made me look good.
Speaker 1:And and yeah, I wasn't my ego, didn't? That didn't bother me. If I hired somebody who's way smarter than me and could probably take my job tomorrow, I didn't care, I'd rather have. But no, I think you've done a great job. And I don't know Wally, but I know Noah and Stone and I have high regard for both of them. Yeah, you all also. You know, I know you're known heavily for supplying hunters with waterfowl retrievers, and upland too.
Speaker 1:Which one of your dogs is doing upland today in South Dakota that I own? But don't you guys also you provide service dogs and stuff like that too? I mean, your customer base is not just hunters, correct? No, what percentage would you say are hunters? And then kind of give me the breakdown.
Speaker 2:Well, you know, like 85 of statistics are made up on the spot. Yes, okay, so I'm. If I had to guess, I'd say over 80 of our dogs go to waterfowl homes. Um, if, as far as true service dogs, I'd say five percent, maybe a little less. That's a we. We enjoy doing that. And there are some weird. Like we have two who are um avalanche search and rescue dogs. Um, shout out to you guys, we have two who do they find old bones and bone fragments for historical archives, which is insane. Like they'll hunt two acres to found like a tooth and they're trying to find these old cemeteries. That, that one's a weird one. They're in California.
Speaker 2:A lot of PTSD service dogs, a lot of those Um and um. We've. We've trained stone and Noah trained a whole litter of dogs for um, a veterans organization. That ended up, I think seven of the eight passed, which was cool, very, I mean, that's rare. The thing I don't like about the service dog industry is the failure rate. It's insane. You take 10 dogs into a service dog program. Less than five are going to be service dogs.
Speaker 1:It's just such high expectation.
Speaker 2:There's just not room for error, right? You take a dog out duck hunting and they got a couple quirks. You can work around it. If you're wheelchair bound and you drop something and you have severe anxiety and the dog fails to pick it up for you, that's unacceptable, right, it might even be as such a deal as the guy, the people that needed this dog needed a dog that was a minimum of, let's say, 23 inches tall, and this one's only 21 inches tall, I mean you know all the health has to be perfect so yeah
Speaker 2:it's. The service dog industry kind of scares me a little bit because of the demands. And I have a couple of people, lauren Hogan, you know I have some friends that have bought service dogs for me and they're super understanding, like they know. Some are going to be good, some are not. I do think that British labs are a perfect personality for a ton of service dog work so smart, intelligent, social, bold, but not not always keyed up right the off switch is important. And then, honestly, we do have a lot of dogs that I say a lot. We have dogs that just go to be like a family dog. I can think of several like Noah did obedience with the dog for a family in California. They've got a Cross crossfit gym dog hangs out at the crossfit gym all day. They hike, they cross country ski and the dog's just like they do, like the active lifestyle stuff so not to.
Speaker 2:I don't. I don't want to be a trash talker, but there are some kennels that do like what they I don't know what they call it like adventure dog program, and I always kind of laugh. I'm like, oh, you just mean being a labrador? Yeah, yeah, I mean we have several that go and you know mountain bike trails and labradors are great for that. I do tell people often hey, I don't think we're a good fit. When you call me, you're like hey, I live in a condo in dc and we've got a local park that's a two miles away and I think I might want a Labrador. I'm like you know, I just don't think that's the right fit for us. But for the most part, if you don't hunt, we don't. I'd rather most of my dogs go to hunting homes, but we definitely don't mind when that when it's a family dog.
Speaker 1:That's interesting. So, um well, that's a good breakdown. That's kind of what I expected. And then do you have, you know, martin, when I went up North and and where I pheasant hunt and where where Maverick is right now, my SOK dog, you know, that's that whole region of, like, the Hurons, south Dakota, all that area East South Dakota, they use retrievers for pheasant, not Brittany's I mean, and like it's the majority. Matter of fact, at the farm that lodge that Maverick's at, there's 10 guides I think there's 100 dogs that they use all day, every day and 90 of them are labs that they use all day every day and 90 of them are labs. Yeah, so I'm going. The reason, ramblin, is, do you sell any to guys that are strictly straight-up upland guys, or is it because of your geographic location that everybody Well, we do, especially out of like Noah's Kennel in Kansas, and I don't mind that at all.
Speaker 2:I think it's great in kansas, um, and I don't mind that at all. I think it's great. Um, in the uk most of the field trial work is is up on anyway. You don't see a ton. They don't shoot ducks like we do. Um, they shoot ducks, but it's not like us. I mean, they're they're. Let me backtrack. There is some wild fouling and they use labradors, which is super cool, but they don't run trials there. You wouldn't be able to, any more than you could run a trial on a duck hunt here. So the game that they're shooting on the estates for trials, that's usually raised pheasants, chukar, some wild grouse rabbits. I think it's great. I think using them for upland is phenomenal. I'd say of the 80% that are hunting dogs that we sell, not a majority but a lot of those do upland as well as waterfowl Less are just upland dogs. If I'm being brutally honest, I think Springer Spaniels are much better pheasant dogs than Labradors.
Speaker 2:Because that was your first hunting dog, if I recall yes, and I just mean the quarter and flush part. And I think they have a better nose, I think they can hunt cover better, they can tear into shreds. They're smaller, they can get in and out of it. If I were going to have a lab to do pheasants I would want like a 45-pound female, like the smallest I could find, and like Maverick's, a great example. He's not a very big dog. No, perfect, what's he?
Speaker 2:60 pounds, 55, 60 max, he's probably he ranges between 55 and 60 and he's athletic and can cut and. But you get these big labs out there and I think there's more prone to injury in that environment. On a quarter and flush, I just think springers are, that's what they're bred to do and a pheasant retrieve is rarely going to be a hard retrieve. It's usually you're shooting within gun range, right, it's just rarely you're going to sail one super far. So I like, I like springers for that world a little better.
Speaker 2:Um, but if you wanted and this is something mark hairfield and I used to argue about all the time if you want to do both for sure, get a labrador. They are, without a doubt, the most versatile. Now, I don't mean versatile when it comes to things like pointing. I don't believe labrador should point. I think if they point, they've been bred with something that also pointed and way back when. That's fine, whatever, let's just be honest about it, right? Uh, I don't think they're bred to. I don't think naturally they came out pointing any more than they came out silver, uh, something happened there. Um, but as far as just non-slip retriever work quarter and flush, uh, and like shed hunting, um, you're not gonna have anything that's more versatile than a labrador, and the reason being is labradors and chesapeake bay retrievers are the only two that can truly handle the elements.
Speaker 2:You saw our hunts last year. I mean when that cold front came through, man, I was in Kansas, it was five degrees Fahrenheit. We're hunting a river with flow, you know, and Rio and Moose on one day and Cedar and Ozzie on the next day. I mean they're icicles, right, I'm drawing them off with the ShamWow between retrieves and man. They never skipped a beat. I mean they like I remember specifically drying off moose and the boy started calling and he ducked under the towel to get around me to mark and see where the birds were. I mean he's like I'm ready and, uh, a springer would probably have that attitude, but or a golden or a Brittany, um, a GSP with no fur, those dogs are going to freeze in that water.
Speaker 2:They've got about a few good retrieves and then they're and then they can't you know, having a double coat and an oily coat and the ability to shake it off, and I mean truly, you can feel under their fur where their skin is and it's bone dry and that's you know. The other dogs can't do that.
Speaker 1:So that's why I think they are the preferred breed, for, you know, being versatile, I definitely agree with that. And yeah, I went on a Sandhill crane hunt last year and it was just bitter cold in the teens.
Speaker 2:This is in.
Speaker 1:Lubbock, texas, and the water was just ice and you know broken up, and those dogs were just all day.
Speaker 2:It was amazing, no sandal cranes were huge.
Speaker 1:You know, they were carrying those like it was, like it was a dove, dinosaurs, man, yeah, yeah, it's crazy.
Speaker 2:That's a crazy bird I hunted. I've hunted him a few times and I've I've used dogs every time and my rule is just like hey, you for sure got to know that the dog is dead or the bird is dead. The crane's got to be dead. And I made the mistake of sending Bruno on one that was um shot a long ways off and it was funny I didn't have the rec specs, although I should have. And when he came back, that bird was very alive and it had bit Bruno in the ear and was just holding on to his ear and I was like, please hold on to that.
Speaker 1:Don't go after his eyeballs. His eyes, yeah.
Speaker 2:That's like the first thing. He was running back to me a little faster than he normally does. Like man he's in a hurry and eventually he was getting an ear pinch the whole way back.
Speaker 1:Since I'm a you know, I'm very thankful that you called me when you were starting. You know Cornerstone and I'm a founder. I'm one of the founding members. I don't know if you realize that.
Speaker 1:I don't think I did realize that it was such a bargain that I was like I stole it At the time. I've been such a big fan of yours. I just did it and I was like I don't really need that, but I did it because of you. Thank God that I did that, because I've used that thing so much that it's insane.
Speaker 2:It's a lifetime membership right, so you didn't necessarily need it then, and now you're at a point where you can use it with your pup and all that.
Speaker 1:Yes, which also. You know how it is, barton when you think you know everything, you get humbled real quick. I learned so much. I mean, here I am 56 years old, I've called Josh for training advice on a dog. It was a protection dog I was working on. But anyway, tell our listeners about Cornerstone. I know I just had Josh on here and he's winning some about it, but to me it's a great thing. Yeah, I mean I'm obviously sold lock, stock and barrel, but talk about that a little bit.
Speaker 2:Yeah, and I listened to the podcast with Josh and so I know he did a great job explaining a lot of the ins and outs of it.
Speaker 2:So I guess what was your thought, especially with Violet. But there are a few things that from my perspective, you know, josh and Keith had that history with. They paid a guy to train a dog and it didn't go like they planned and they invested all this money and then Keith's like we'll just train it ourselves. And then Josh is like how do you do that? And so then they're trying to learn, which is such a common journey. Just how many people have experienced that like a common journey? Like just how many people have experienced that? And um, they really did start learning.
Speaker 2:And yeah, there's a lot that could be said about the british field trial society of america too. He mentioned that, uh, and that's back in the day when I sold them an earl and angie pup and then I sold them earl and they kind of had cornerstone retrievers going and um, you know, we've joked about it. I've said it on a lot of podcasts. Now it's actually much funnier to say because josh parvin is one of the one of the best communicators I know, like he's. He's on a podcast, on a video series. He's phenomenal. I had a front seat to watching that develop because when he started Keith was about to kill him because he couldn't. He would turn the camera on, he would rehearse something, turn the camera on and he couldn't talk and uh, which is so insane to think about, because he's so talented at it now yeah, um, I mean so good at it and so, yeah, and I love Josh and Keith is so fun Cause it's like we get along so well. The Lord has really blessed our partnership together and our relationship dynamic, but those guys get along well as a father son. I hope Noah and I can be like them when we're older. You know they have a great relationship, but they're a father and son, so they'll get into it, you know.
Speaker 2:And and uh, they called me and keith's like I got this idea and we're trying to get it off the ground and it's just not going. We just think we're missing something. We won't know if you want to be a part of it and I was like absolutely I had already kind of had the idea with a friend of mine to do something similar. So we started cornerstone, started filming and uh, god it was. It was really fun to. We kind of knew we were doing something like cutting edge, not training dogs. We're not reinventing the wheel. You know, dogs have been being trained to pick up birds for a long time. Uh, you can, you can hone in and develop kind of a style, but we're not. We're not creating any new way to train these dogs.
Speaker 2:Right, like this is has, like this has been around, but putting it, giving people access to it in a way that's meaningful in 2017. To now, that had not been done. I mean YouTube. There were YouTube videos and there were some people that came along right after us to do very similar things that we had done with cornerstone. But being the first ones to say, hey, we're not only going to make it online, we're going to put it in an app where everyone's on their smartphone all the time. And, ken, people would come pick up puppies, like around the time that you bought Pace Jet Chase. Around that time, people would buy these dogs. And then they would say you got any books you recommend or you have any DVDs you recommend, and I would recommend a couple of books, maybe a couple of DVDs, but then I would think that, to be honest, my generation, they're probably not going to read it Any books, unfortunately. And then I tell everyone, the only DVD player that I had at that time was in my wife's Suburban. That was it.
Speaker 1:So if I wanted to, watch.
Speaker 2:I remember sitting in my wife's car in the driveway watching the igl video from 2017, paul french videos, because it's the only dvd player I had. So like to. To put it online just made so much more sense, you know, and, um, and to make it a one-stop shop. That's really what we're still trying to do. I just got an email earlier from retriever training supply. That's our other company. Um, we, I mean that's part of, you know, cornerstone. That's underneath us, right, we, we, we, we're, that's, we're kind of an umbrella parent company that. And I got an email for. You know, we're selling Mo Marsh. I love those guys. We've got a product of the day email going out which is a spotlight product. I got that, yeah, and I'm like man, this is so cool. Like I want a spot was what we've been trying to create, and kudos to Keith and Josh for so many great ideas. Um, I mean, look, they're the brain power. They keep it running.
Speaker 2:For a long time, I was just the face in front of everybody and I I still push it, you know, and I love, and I still push it, you know, and I love, I love doing training videos. We've got some stuff we're about to do. It's going to be phenomenal. But those guys, you know they're like the. You pull the curtain back and you got the crazy machines going back there and they're running all that you know and they're so good at it and having a one stop shop like, all right, I bought a lab, what do I do? Well, we got a module on vet talk with Lee Payne. We've got all the puppy stuff which I think no one has anything close to what we've done with puppies on there as far as the foundations of building a retriever.
Speaker 2:And then we've got everything from 52 plus where you can follow along with Josh and a very frustrating dog who is not easy to train Right, and she was not easy. We didn't just go cherry pick the easiest dog. Josh got stuck with a dog that a lot of people would have said I don't think I'm going to make it to the end, and the pressure was on for him, for his brand new wife at the time, to go film this dog and they did it. You know they got her there and then, with the complete, we filmed every aspect of retriever training basic and advanced obedience, basic intermediate and advanced gun dog work and then maintenance, which I sent an email out today on maintenance and how important that is. And and then you've got a place where you can go buy your supplies. Now we're just trying to make it where. Hey, what do I need to do as a retriever owner? Okay, here, just get this and everything you need to learn to know to purchase. It's all right here in one spot. That's been a really fun journey.
Speaker 1:It's well, first of all I'll comment. The three of you guys are a perfect combination because you all are so different in ways and you bring something to the table. I think it's the perfect trio. But you know, in the grand scheme of things, the program is is a steal for the cost, just because you know if you pay a pro trainer and I have uh, you, you can spend that in a month or two, you know, and, and I can tell the listeners, I, I've used this, it's on my phone.
Speaker 1:I've got some three, three young puppies right now, well, three 12 week old puppies that I'm working with and I I don't know what I do with it. I still use it and I've been fooling dogs since I was a kid. So, yeah, I appreciate that. Um, yeah, the retriever trying supply, um, y'all have got a lot of good stuff on there. I know, gosh. I remember, bart, I was buying those neoprene leashes from you back in the day before you had Retriever Supply and you were getting them from somewhere.
Speaker 2:Yeah, okay, amish guy, super nice guy. I found the guy. They were trying to keep him secret. I found him through a friend who did some roofing work with the guys and saw the leashes. At the time they had only been making them for wild rose and I had bought some from mike um and I was like man, I love these leashes, but there were some things about the wild rose ones that I didn't like so I actually had them change it.
Speaker 2:The wild rose ones had like little um, they were textured like. They had little bumps on them, they were like ribbed so you could get a better grip, which I understood. But they got so dirty, like built up in there, so I want to just straight nylon or whatever that stuff is what I don't even know what it is rubber nylon, whatever. So I went out and met the guy and, dude, he had rolls of that stuff. I mean hundreds, hundreds of feet, every color imaginable, and at that time they weren't even doing the rivets, they were sewing the loops. You know the loop end shut, and so I specified my sizes and ordered them by the dozens.
Speaker 1:And there was once, barton, you had a short. It's like I was like, man, I need another lease, and it took you a while to find me one or get one. Yeah, the but, man, I need another lease.
Speaker 2:And it took you a while to find me one or get one. Yeah, the guy would. Just he's Amish dude, he would go MIA. It's like you can't call him. It's crazy, crazy.
Speaker 2:Side note Through that, my wife met some of the people that lived out there and we had just had Miriam, my third born, and this is 2015. Around about the time that you and I had talked and gotten dogs. So my wife ended up meeting them and through this place where she counseled uh, the pregnancy clinic found out that there was a lady out there Her, her brother-in-law, was the one that was making the leashes and her husband made I want to say he made leather products, like saddles and stuff. They all work together. There's like so creative and like craftsmanship is next level. And this lady had had I don't know the exact number, but it was like her seventh or eighth or maybe ninth child and she was having problems producing enough milk to feed this baby.
Speaker 2:And we were in the opposite boat, dude, I had a freezer full of breast milk back in the day. We're like, hey, this stuff is like liquid gold and we're not having to buy a formula and my wife will share the story. She would not be upset with me sharing this, but with the third child the production was high so I'm storing this stuff. I'm like we need room in this freezer. So I had just started working with some friends I had made at Yeti Coolers and they ended up sending me a Yeti to fill up and I took it to this lady. Actually, bethany took it to this lady. I didn't want anything to do with communicating about the breast milk with this lady.
Speaker 1:This must be the craziest bartering story I've ever heard.
Speaker 2:You got to finish it ended up just like I just had a better relationship with the guys. I didn't charge them anything for it. Bethany was like I don't know the rules on selling breast milk on the black market?
Speaker 2:I don't know, Look, if somehow they figured out a way to make it illegal for us to just drink raw milk nowadays and sell it, then I'm sure that breast milk is not sellable either. But I was like, yeah, it's. Bethany ended up helping them because they don't have a refrigerator, they can't keep it, so we would fill up a cooler of ice and this stuff. And then she would be like how many days do you think this will last? Okay, well, in 10 days I'll bring you some more.
Speaker 1:And she would, and she did that for like several months.
Speaker 2:It's pretty cool, that's great, I've never heard of that. That's one of the weirdest rabbits I've chased on a podcast. So that is that's a.
Speaker 1:That's a. I'll never have taught that. No, yeah, but that is crazy, no, so did you end up? Did you end up hiring this guy or did you buy his business? How did?
Speaker 2:that evolve. No, I mean that guy just kind of he quit making them or something happened. We just didn't order from him anymore. And then when Keith and Josh and I made the decision to pull the trigger on the real duck, on the dum dummies which I know you guys talked about, well then we had all the manufacturing equipment to make the leashes, but to make them much better. So, okay, we started, we made them different we use rivets and changed the design, the lengths, the collars, uh, and then did the quick tabs, you know the smaller, smaller, steady tabs. They took all that over and started making those, alongside with the fire hose dummies, which they made a lot of improvements to. Those too, goodness, they're phenomenal.
Speaker 1:That's my favorite product when I came to your, as far as I got to come to your house and hang out, you were having a training day and this was not the place you're at now. I think it was the place you were at before. I keep reminding Doug to get next to this microphone. So that wasn't the British stuff, was it? It was just a training day, like back in 17?.
Speaker 2:That would have probably been a training day, okay.
Speaker 2:At that point, the British Philat field trial society of America was sort of shutting down around. Then I did host three field trials at some training ground in um, in uh, I guess Saltillo, really close to where I live right now Okay, and that was super fun. We hosted a bunch of them on the grounds over in Alabama, where Cornerstone member weekends are not the one where you went to, but the ones up on the on the hilltop where it's really hilly, and they were really fun. I used to, and still do, host a lot of just weekend training days. Don and Wally do this a bunch up in Michigan. Their grounds are unreal, they do it. I, wally, do this a bunch up in Michigan. Their grounds are unreal, they do it. I think every Thursday night they have people come train, which is awesome. So, yeah, probably just a training day, and I think that was at my Oklahoma house, most likely In 2017, that's when we lived there, okay.
Speaker 1:I'm about positive. That's when I was there. What's next for Southern Oak Kennels?
Speaker 2:Oh gosh, I got this new stud dog Stoked about him. This would be the biggest dog as far as like reputation and just rapport. Popularity is a weird word but like the biggest few dogs I've brought over, the first one would be Apache Joe. That was a big deal. Everybody loved that dog I've got over. The first one would be Apache Joe. That was a big deal, Everybody loved that dog. I've got one.
Speaker 2:I've got two of his daughters here. One of them's only 12 weeks old. We used a frozen straw. Oh yeah, she's in that. She's literally in my shop experiencing the second day, away from any of her siblings and in a crate by herself. Yeah, she has not stopped. I'm surprised if I open the window you'd hear still thinking of a name for her. I've got another one of his daughters, Lucy, who just had a litter of puppies out of Rio.
Speaker 2:Apache Joe was a big deal. He was like, to my knowledge, one of the first bona fide field trial champions. He was in UK and Irish champion. He was a top dog at multiple game fair events. He came over. That was a big deal. And then Tweedshot Trimble of Lettergreen Quinn, who was Pace's dad, came over and I love that dog. He was a huge deal, and he was an Irish Retriever Championship winner, so he had won the Irish Championship. Not only that, a lot of people don't know the year before he got third, the year before that he got fourth or third, and the year before that he got a certificate of merit. So he had finished it four years in a row.
Speaker 2:Um, really consistent, really nice dog. Not the best producer, though is we had some really good puppies out of him, but we had some health issues at him, so I retired him really early. Um, and then the next biggest after that was probably Eastdale cane. Cane was a huge deal, cause he was an English field trial champion, made some phenomenal puppies really love cane dog. He passed away Uh, Quinn passed, actually, all those dogs are passed away but then by far my biggest achievement as an importer of dogs was bringing over moose. I've had some really nice dogs. I have some nice dogs. I mean, I've got two champions out here now with Ozzie and moose. But man Laura is such a dear friend of mine. Staunton Vell is a legendary operation that she has in England. What she's accomplished is truly spectacular. I did a podcast with her. I don't know if you listened to that one or not?
Speaker 1:Yeah, I did. Yeah, I feel like I've listened to NPR England. It was awesome.
Speaker 2:She's so to. I remember getting Moose at the airport and I had him on a slip lead and I just kind of had my arm around him and I was like I cannot believe this dog is in America, cannot believe it, and he's my buddy. I love him to death. I was loving on him last night here in the lodge.
Speaker 1:You actually suggested I read her book and that was a great suggestion.
Speaker 2:It's a great book. She got a new one. I've read it. I read I think they made some edits, but it's out. It's phenomenal If you're going to read books.
Speaker 1:I actually read.
Speaker 2:I'm old If you're going to read a book on retriever training. Laura is one of the smartest human beings, not just in retriever training but just in general. She's incredibly intelligent and shout out to Derek Moose is Derek's dog. I got Moose, and Laura gets a lot of the credit, but Derek's my man Can't wait to have him. You, I got Moose, and Laura gets a lot of the credit, but Derek's my man Can't wait to have him.
Speaker 1:You think this new stuff?
Speaker 2:They'll be here. I'm not announcing the time yet, but they're coming over to do some seminars here at my place, so I'll be sure to let you know I don't want to make the dates public. Yet.
Speaker 1:Do you feel like this new acquisition will be your best? I know it's hard to quantify, mo.
Speaker 2:This is still probably going to be the most prestigious dog. That's probably the word I was looking for earlier.
Speaker 1:Okay.
Speaker 2:This one will be. It is insane to get a field trial champion at the age of four. He's only four, four and a half, and he's double qualified this past year for the IGL. He he has won a lot. His health and his pedigree are really good. So he's a son of a really nice producing field trial champion. That um that Lee had over there and then he's the hardest, uh, and then he's.
Speaker 2:His mom is out of copper birch patio, lead burn, which is a dog that I really like in my kennel, going back back to where we started, like that line, leadburn lines in general. I've got a new field trial winner that I have not announced to anyone yet in my kennel right now. I just picked him up. His name's Fletcher and he's like red. Remember my dog Red? He's like a lighter version of red as far as the color, but he's got that same like.
Speaker 2:When he comes back, you're like how are you running faster all of a sudden, like he's just got it? Well, you look back at his pedigree and it's like oh there, it is like the, the ledburn lineage. It's their, their athletes. There's a lot. Ledburn earl is the same way. Like you know, there's this way they run, we get into the nitty-gritty of it. There's this way that they run where the back end of the dog gets really low to the ground and those back legs are driving so hard. And I can see that and I can know. I can tell you a list of 10 dogs and three of the 10 are going to be within the first three generations of that pedigree. You can just see the way they run right now.
Speaker 2:I might be wrong on that, you can call BS or whatever, but typically I can see. I can also see the way a dog like I can tell you a moose pup when you let it out of the kennel, when you let it out of the kennel, and the way it turns back toward its owner and bounces around. There's a certain way they move. It's just moose pups, that's what they do. So anyway, um, this new dog has got some of that, some of that blood in it. Where that athleticism? And yeah, I think it would be a huge deal for us. It's like at four and a half the hope is you've got six good years of infusing those genetics into. You know, here in the USA from a true champion, I'm going to keep importing dogs for Southern Oak Kennels until the Lord shuts that door. I do not want to create a line of SOK dogs per se. I've explained that.
Speaker 1:I heard you talk about that on the podcast, Barton. I get it, but elaborate on that for the listeners.
Speaker 2:Yeah, I mean, don't get me wrong, we have Rip. Who's out of Hank I got a Rip girl right now and Dixie yeah she's a fireball.
Speaker 1:She's 14. We got her. I named her abby. She uh super smart.
Speaker 2:Yeah, like that's a line that I'm good, continuing for a generation right, I would not keep a pup out of rip as a stud dog in the future because now we're two generations removed from the UK. Technically, hank was actually imported, but he was imported at eight weeks and he's out of Quinn and and a field trial winner named Bess or diver Ben raw Bess. Sorry, I won't. I won't nerd out on the pedigrees anymore, but the, the and I explained this. You know if, if you're listening to this, not to plug my own stuff but the podcasts that I did with Chris Rudd. We go way in the weeds on this and for me, like I prefer the style of evaluation in the United Kingdom over the style of evaluation in America, and you're doing that because of the hunting instincts.
Speaker 2:Yeah, for so many reasons Correct.
Speaker 1:I think the things that they assess are just and listen.
Speaker 2:If you're like a college administration program and you've got these kids that have taken the ACT and you've got these kids that have taken the ACT and you got these kids that have taken the SAT, it can, based on your college, you might say, hey, I really prefer a high SAT score versus an ACT score, and you got to really get in the weeds to see even what the difference is, right, yeah, and where you may say we don't really want either of those. We want to see this, this, this particular test, whatever that is. Um, well, with field trials and hunt tests and like, like, shout out to my friend clark kennington, he's running the master national right now and tough, tough test, right, like, if your dog passes the master national, it's a heck of a dog. But there are some things that aren't evaluated, um, and in the uk those things are evaluated and some of the things that are evaluated evaluated. And in the UK those things are evaluated and some of the things that are evaluated in the master national or the grand are super, super cool. But I don't necessarily care when it comes to having a really nice hunting dog, so I appreciate them. I have a massive level of respect for those dogs and we now have a few. You know, blake's dog, rose is coming here, uh, hank and Callie pup coming here to be bred to Ozzie. Uh, and she's a grand hunt retriever champion. She's the first SOK grand hunt retriever champion, one of the nicest dogs you'll ever see just insane. Um. But as far as creating the style of dogs, I really prefer the type of dog that's in the UK. That's past their system of evaluation.
Speaker 2:So you look at a pedigree, you say, hey, this is a good pedigree. What do you mean by that? Well, even if it's coon dogs, what you mean is parents, grandparents and so forth have done something right. They've done something, whatever that is. And we can do it so quickly with dogs Cause you can have a 10 generation pedigree that's all lived within our lifetime, right. They've done something, whatever that is, and we can do it so quickly with dogs because you can have a 10 generation pedigree that's all lived within our lifetime, right. And then you breed them at two to six years old. So it's not like us where to look at my pedigree within a few generations, you're back pre. You know you're at civil war days. You know it's just. It goes back so long for you can see, culturally, these dogs so much faster, and so I want to come.
Speaker 2:I want to consistently produce dogs who have the traits that are being evaluated in the uk. The only two ways that I think I can do that is by bringing over dogs who have titles from the uk or their immediate parents have titles from the uk, or creating some type of system of evaluation in America that mirrors what they do in the UK. That's very difficult to do. If you're listening to this and you have a lot of money and you want to do something like that, call me. I would love to do it. There have been a few people want to start it. It's just the funds that it's going to take are insane. Because it's an expensive sport. It's not like you have to have the birds, the grounds. You can't do it in a cheap way and do it in a way that actually looks like what they do over there. So because of the way they do it over there, that's the style of dog I want. So I'm going to keep importing.
Speaker 2:All of the Southern Oak Kennel campuses were organic. None of them were planned. All of them happened naturally. So I don't have any plans on expanding Southern Oak kennels, but I really never did so. I'm not going to say we won't do it, um, but yeah, for me it's just continuing to develop our team, make sure my guys have what they need. Uh, and and hopefully, what I really want to do is continue to build the legacy. We're at the point now where we're selling a lot of people their second dog after the first ones have gotten older. We're at the point now where we're selling a lot of people their second dog after the first ones have gotten older. I want to sell their grandkids dogs. You know, I want to continue to build a reputation that's like, hey, we're never going to get a dog from anywhere else. That's my goal.
Speaker 1:You know, bart, if you remember this, but I just hit me when you said that back in 17, 16 or 17,. You know I had about 883 acres in Kentucky up in northern Kentucky I'm from southeast Kentucky and I said, hey, we should franchise. You know I had a lot of property. And then you know later on you actually did that, but I know you had no plans at that time. Question so well, first I'll preface this question. I'm actually going to get, I'm going to the IGL this year, yeah, perfect.
Speaker 2:So hopefully you'll be there uh, maybe it's definitely uh on my, on my list of possibilities. Okay, it's super fun it's down south this year, isn't it? It's in the south.
Speaker 1:Yes, yes, because I had to look all that up but I'll pick your brain at a later time about that. But I just you know, you know that isn't in in the dog trial, horse trial, whatever trial world. You know, stuff's political. Do you feel like that in the UK, their trial system and I'm not trying to start a controversy, I'm just curious Do you feel like when you see a field trial winner on a pedigree that you're truly getting the real deal? That it's not been? Oh, my brother was the judge. You know what I'm getting at. I mean, do you feel like it is a true and fair assessment or is there politics involved, like anywhere else?
Speaker 2:Definitely both. Okay, yeah, I don't want to make any enemies.
Speaker 1:Right, right, right, okay, but you probably know where to look Correct.
Speaker 2:Okay, any enemies, but right, right, yeah, okay, but you probably know where to look correct and it is not easy to have an open dog, meaning it's not easy to have a dog who has won and is now running opens. All right, um, in the bulk of places, if your dog wins a novice stake, I know what that means, that you can't win without the skills, right. But what were the other dogs like? You could have had some really poor competition that day. You could have been maybe gifted a win. You could have been given easier retrieves. There are definitely politics that play into it. Um, definitely definitely not going to. Um, definitely not going to call anyone specifically out. Um, there are some regions. I gotta be really careful here. There are some regions.
Speaker 1:Sorry, man.
Speaker 2:No, it's fine. There are some regions that say that, um, you could be running a field trial in a particular place on the same day that most of the really good dogs are running a trial as well in that particular place just a bit North under a different set of rules, and I've seen that happen a lot. So a dog's won a trial and it's's like, oh well, there were. But to win a novice stake, you're running against novice dogs. That's more or less making dogs up. If you need a couple wins or some points, just a big hint of where that is, you can make it happen.
Speaker 2:So I wouldn't just blindly buy a dog. That's a winner and there is a massive difference between being like this new stud. I have Fletcher phenomenal dog. He's a novice steak winner from Northern Scotland. The gap between a novice steak winner and a field champion in Scotland is a big gap. Um, I appreciate the field trial winner title for sure it's not an official title but like it's a great accomplishment and he's actually got three awards and other trials, so there's consistency there. Right, that's cool, that's important for me. But I still need someone to say, yeah, watch that dog, I saw him. Here's what I saw.
Speaker 1:And see. That just all goes back to what I said earlier. That's why I feel confident when I've gotten stuff from you, cause you, you're, you're, you've got an insight that somebody like me won't. Oh, I might buy a dog from so-and-so in England or Ireland or wherever. I don't really know, really know what I'm getting, unless I can do that kind of research.
Speaker 2:Yeah, correct, probably, yeah, yeah, so Interesting and I mean you want to. Yeah, there's a, there's a lot that goes into it. You'll have fun at the IGL. I don't think I'm going to go to that IGL this year, Not because it's a bad one to go to, but I like walk up and that You'll probably have a hopefully have a really good view. And the IGL is a fun place to shake a bunch of hands and see a bunch of dogs at once and everyone that wants to get into this needs to go watch the IGL at least once or twice.
Speaker 2:I felt I got really fortunate. The place I went and saw it was a lot of dogs I knew were running and it was one of my favorite estates in the UK the year that I went so I got to watch them run on the golf course and all that Super fun. But you don't get to see any. You don't get to see a lot of up and coming dogs or you know that you might see the novice steak or running their first ever opens. I mean, to be honest, I've seen a lot of dogs go out at a trial on a bird and I've left very impressed by that dog. Right, the reason the dog went out was just bad luck or something like that. But I've been like, hey, I'm keeping an eye on that dog, you know.
Speaker 2:So yeah, I bought a dog one time from a guy because the dog absolutely just pardon my friends, but just shit the bed in the trial like it was rough, not good, and I was like that's a really nice dog. I saw exactly what happened. It was handler error. The dude was super frustrated and I was like, hey, if you ever want to sell that dog I'll buy it and the dude sold this, told me the dog yeah, nice, no, and see that's, that's great too.
Speaker 1:but um, I'm really just going there, bartonon, honestly just to learn watch it, but I really hope to do some podcasts. Maybe we'll talk later. Maybe you've got some people I can talk to.
Speaker 2:Yeah, for sure, it's different getting those folks to commit.
Speaker 1:But yeah, you can definitely do it, yeah, and I've actually talked to a few people Through social media. There's a group over there. They do springers and cockers and they're going to do a podcast with me.
Speaker 2:Because, you know, like I said, I'm going to have all different breeds on here. That'll be amazing.
Speaker 1:Well, anyway, barton, I've taken a lot of your time. I'm so honored that you took time out of your crazy busy schedule. I always hate texting you, man, because I know you're covered up and I'm real bad to random texts stupid stuff, like you know, whatever.
Speaker 2:But um, dude, it's good. I want to say a couple of quick things. First of all, I'm stoked you're doing this. I think you're going to hopefully have a broad, broad audience that can bring some people together.
Speaker 2:And I've said it a lot of times, if you're into gun dogs, no matter what, your enemy is not the people who do gun dogs differently than you. The only enemy you might have is the people that hope that we never get to hunt with dogs again. Right, I mean, we really should be working together to continue to be able to do this. So the other thing I'd like to say is you know, I've known you for a long time. You've had some really nice dogs, and I want to put a little little connector out there. If you're listening to this and you're a Southern Oak guy and you have a puppy out of jet or chase, it's because of Ken. Yeah, I sold chase to you as an imported pup and I sold jet to you as one of our pups out of Snoop and Allie, which is probably one of the best pedigrees I'd ever put together at that point.
Speaker 1:Let me say this Pause, because I want you to finish. So I was researching your site and I knew Snoop, because I'd had a Snoop dog and not the Snoop dog, no, so you had just imported this female, or you just got this female, and you had all this write-up on her. And I was looking at everything you said, I started doing some research and I think you even referred to that dog as quote the pedigree. I was like, man, this is going to be dangerous. So I was like I paid a deposit a year in advance for the first pick, female.
Speaker 2:Remember, I was already yeah.
Speaker 1:And I picked that. I got that dog and Jet may have more natural ability than any dog I've ever owned. She had more juice than any lab I've ever seen. And I was getting a ranch and I was getting into a lot of blood tracking and stuff and I was like man, I'm not going to get to waterfowl hunt, I'm not going to get to do this. This dog's going to get it wasted and it's a shame to let her waste here. So you bought her back from me and I knew what she was and that was when she was still raw. You guys had to work. Yeah, you had to work with her because I hadn't done a whole lot. Uh, at that time I was back in middle of texas, you know, and anyway, what a dog I'd give you, honestly give anything to have that dog over.
Speaker 2:She was amazing, lots of talent. Brad hunted with her a lot Brad did. And then Chase hunted with a client of ours a lot. Both of those dogs were incredibly talented. Both of them were very good producers. Chase is still alive. She lives with my daughter's best friend. Chase is a Frisbee Jet passed away last year and the people that had her just got another retiree, lived a great life, had her litters and then slept on the couch and retrieved and hunted up until her last season.
Speaker 2:Pedigree-wise, both phenomenal. I mean I've got a client who's got a moose and chase pup. That is with George Moody running, qualified, all-age running white coat field trials oh my gosh, the jet pedigree. And snoop is a lead burn dog. That's the lines I'm talking about. So snoop goes I mean that's billy. Still, jr got fourth in the igl with snoop and then won it with snoop's son. Uh, call, harper break is what they call him. That's his kennel name. They call him call c, c-a-l-l, I think. Anyway, that's the line I'm talking about. And when you paired that with Allie, which was Waterford Ganton and international field trial champion, astrogun Faith, the whole pedigree was red and I bought her. My friend called me three times in the middle of the night from Scotland. I finally answered my phone. I was at a pastor's conference like 3 am. I was like what do you want? He was like I need a yes or no on the thing I just texted you. He had sent me her pedigree, a picture of her and her price Cheapest dog I ever imported.
Speaker 1:Wow.
Speaker 2:Yeah, but she had zero health tests, so big risk. She ended up. I ended up having her tested over there. I think she was zero, zero hips and elbows and clear eyes and all that. Anyway, that dog was that's where ashley came from, which is prince and alley, which that's the you know one of the top moms we ever had at sok great lakes. Um, yeah, then we had snoot. We kept jet from her. Anyway, those lines are super meaningful. All that to say, I appreciate you trusting us with those dogs back that.
Speaker 2:A lot of people were impacted. They both had their four litters, they both had big litters and a lot of people had pups from those those dogs, which is super cool for us. Um, yeah, just cool to see that all kind of play back. And then you kind of came back around and it took a while to get worked out exactly the direction that we all wanted to go and hiccups along the road, but it's cool to see what you have now with with Maverick, who's really awesome, and then with your pup, which is Rip, and Phoenix, which is really awesome as well. So, yeah, and Phoenix, again, that's a cane pup and a great-granddaughter of Apache Joe and all those lines back in there.
Speaker 1:Yeah, yeah, you know, I'm just sitting here thinking, jed, I had her. When I first got her from you I was still in Kentucky, I had been laid off. So I was up there for a year out of the oil field business and turned loose on the ranch on the farm up there. The deers were just now shedding she couldn't have been four months old and shed hunts, you know. She took off just all around the barn, came back three times with fresh sheds in her mouth. It was just anything she did. It was just amazing, natural.
Speaker 1:But Pace was like that too and you know, when I got P got pace, he was already trained from you guys that's right, and uh, he, he found antlers just because he was watching my other dogs do yep, so he started doing fine, but I never trained him to do. Yeah, it was amazing, anyway, cool, uh, I've, I sure have enjoyed them. There's man, I just one I wouldn't care to have back, but that's uh but she's one we would clone if we could.
Speaker 1:Yeah, yeah, yeah, there's a long list of them now, but she's definitely high up on that list well, I'm so glad I got her back in your hands and she got to do what she should have, because with me at that time she wouldn't have got you lost. Yeah to her full potential she was fun.
Speaker 2:She was fun. She was the one brad had her and ally, uh a l? L? Y different alley. And uh, that was a prince, and maggie my A-L-L-Y different Allie. That was Prince and Maggie, my Maggie. If Brad needed to show off two dogs, those are the two that got out. They were a lot of fun. I enjoyed talking to you, man. I'm glad you're doing this.
Speaker 1:Thank you, I really appreciate it. We'll be talking some more. Hopefully we'll get to cross paths here in person and you've got to get out here at the ranch. Bring your crew out, I'm at the ranch.
Speaker 2:today it's on my list.
Speaker 1:It's definitely on my list, all right.
Speaker 2:All right.
Speaker 1:Bart, thank you so much and I'll be promoting you throughout.
Speaker 2:Awesome, thanks, dude Appreciate it. Yes, sir, thank you.