Gundog Nation
A show to bring together gundog enthusiasts, trainers, and handlers with discussion focused on all breeds and styles of gundogs.
Gundog Nation
Gundog Nation #011: Shannon Nardi, SRS Producer and Editor
In this episode, Ken Witt interviews Shannon Nardi, a producer and editor who has overseen the Super Retriever Series for the past 20 years. They discuss the evolution of the series, its structure, and the various breeds that participate. Shannon shares insights on the competition format, the importance of hunting skills, and the increasing participation of youth and women in the sport. The conversation also touches on the media evolution surrounding the series and offers advice for newcomers looking to get involved.
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Hello and welcome to Gun Dog Nation. This is Kenneth Witt and I'm coming to you from Texas. I want you to know that Gun Dog Nation is more than just a podcast. It's a movement to unite those who want to watch a well-trained dog do what it's bred to do. Also, we are set out to try to encourage youth, to get encouraged in the sport of gun dogs, whether it's hunting, competition, trials, hunt tests, all the above. This is a community of people that are united to preserve our heritage of gun dog ownership and also to be better gun dog owners. So, if you'll stay tuned to all of our episodes, we're going to have people on here to educate you about training, about nutrition, health. Anything can make you a better gun dog owner. It's my pleasure to welcome our listeners and please join our community.
Speaker 1:Hello, this is Kenneth Witt. Welcome back to gundog nation. This is episode 10, I think, if I'm correct, and I have a lady on here who's going to educate us and tell us about the super retriever series, ms Shannon Nardi. It's something I've been wanting to learn more about myself and I know we have a lot of listeners that feel the same way. So, ms Nardi, go ahead and introduce yourself please.
Speaker 2:Well, I'm Shannon Nardi and I am a producer and editor by trade and I have been sort of overseeing the Super Retriever series.
Speaker 1:I've sort of overseen the Super Retriever series, probably the last 20 years it was created by ESPN as a made-for-TV retriever trial, which is a lot of the reasons we do the things we do because it was created for television and that's interesting.
Speaker 2:I didn't know that. Yeah, so it's definitely changed over the last 25 years and I'm literally in the middle of building a 25th anniversary video because we are celebrating our 25th champions in three weeks, nice. So I was assigned to it as a producer and had no idea that. I knew nothing about retriever trials or anything. I knew retrievers, duck hunted and that was about all I knew. So I had a quick learning of how to, you know, build a game and I worked with a producer, I worked underneath him and we kind of built segments for the Great Outdoor Games.
Speaker 2:The first two years the handlers were handpicked there was 12 of them and it did rate really well on the games because there were several things in the games. There was lumberjack and bass fishing and fly fishing. You know there was just a lot of outdoor sports shooting sports, archery. But we rated real well in the time blocks that we aired. We rated real well in the time blocks that we aired. So they decided they wanted to do a qualifier to get to the games, which is what Super Retriever Series became was the qualifier, and then we held three of those a year and we took the top three people out of those winnings and then they would get to go to the games when they quit doing outdoor programming on ESPN. We just kept going and we created our own championship and we've been going ever since.
Speaker 1:Wow. So it's about 25 years old roughly.
Speaker 2:We'll be crowning our 25th champion on November 2nd.
Speaker 1:Okay, so what has been some of the major changes since it started as an ESPN TV project up to today?
Speaker 2:I mean there's been several changes. Some of the major ones is we just did 12 dogs in the championship, for I mean, it was probably 10, 11, 12 years before we let more dogs come in or opened it up. And for me, I always kind of fought against opening it up because, as a television producer and a storyteller type of person, it's easier to tell stories on 12 handlers and dogs than it is Like this year. I have 95 dogs and handlerslers, so it's hard to hone in on. You know certain people and build that relationship and build that. You know. When you're watching television, you usually cheer on somebody because of the stories you're getting told, so it's hard to tell a story on 95 different teams.
Speaker 2:Yeah, as it was 12, so it we did grow, though we had three events a year to get those 12, and then the following champions get to come back. Now we have 30. I had 30 events this year. We have 95 qualified for the championship. That'll be in three weeks, so those things change. Another big change is it used to be just one big group that competed and probably I think in 2018, we split it in an amateur and pro division or open, like an amateur can play in the open. So we run the same tests and we just have two leaderboards. So everybody's running together, but we just have two separate leaderboards going at the same time, which makes it great because we can get it all done at the same time.
Speaker 1:Is there an age restriction on what's the youngest a person is allowed?
Speaker 2:to be. Well, we started a college event, so those are kind of younger kids that are kind of getting involved. But as far as like a SRS, I mean honestly I think we had this nine-year-old little boy that came and ran one of the big dogs in Ohio, I think, two years ago, and actually he did pretty good. I mean, he made it through the second series, I believe. But I mean I don't think we don't have an age restriction, so it just is what it is.
Speaker 1:Yeah, no, that's one of the things we kind of preach on this show, on this podcast, is to try to get you know we want to pass our heritage along.
Speaker 2:Oh, yeah, absolutely.
Speaker 2:And our sport, and this is what we are really trying to work on the college. I think we're in seven years now and it's really hard. It's so hard to get that going because once the kids get to a certain age then they're gone and you're kind of just always starting over. But what we do is we we've kind of changed that through the years too. But right now you can get a high school or college kid. They have to be in school or enrolled in some kind of trade school and if they don't have their own dog, we can pair them up with a pro who has a dog. So basically they're running the test and they're being coached the entire time. The coaches stand in a box right behind them, continuously teaching them during the actual test. That's become kind of a different thing, a new thing. It's a lot of fun and it's fun to watch these kids handle dogs and play with the big boys.
Speaker 1:If you don't mind, I don't want to get too tedious, I guess, but can you describe the events? Like you know, people like me, I've never seen a full SRA. I've seen bits and pieces and clips, but I've never really seen a whole series.
Speaker 2:So we run a weekend test starts on Friday. We, you know it's usually's usually more than 99% open AM. There's two divisions. We run four series. One will be a hunt test and one will be a field trial. Those two will be if you run a field trial first, you're running a hunt test. Second, If you're running a hunt test first, you're running a field trial second. Then there'll be sort of a hybrid field trial hunt test 'll be sort of a hybrid field trial hunt test. That's what usually happens in the third and then the four series. They usually run a hunt savvy and a hunt savvy has got to have some kind of element of hunting, like a layout, blind, or a rough stand or a boat or you know just some kind of thing that you would use in a hunting scenario. Several shooters, bubble gunners and it, you know, try to replicate an actual hunting scenario. So it's usually, you know, exciting A lot of noise, a lot of duck calling and exciting.
Speaker 1:And I've heard there's a lot of unpredictability about some of the events too, like you know, there know. Is that true?
Speaker 2:Yes, I mean, you know it's like we have rules and we have pretty strict rules, but you know it's not like a pass-fail, you know. So you're not restricted to be in a certain yardage on your marks or your blinds, it's anything goes. And if it can happen in a hunting scenario, then it can happen.
Speaker 1:Now is dock diving part of that.
Speaker 2:Yeah, we do that too we still do that too.
Speaker 1:Is it separate?
Speaker 2:It's a separate thing, like most of the retriever trials, the only time we're ever really together is at the championship which will be in three weeks in shreveport. We'll have the dock event the weekend before. Trials start, on tuesday, but the dock events the weekend before. But we held those events usually in some kind of conjunction with a festival, like you know, the southern southern illinois hunting and fishing days. We go to bass masters classic and we set up there. So we're at different, different kind of events that have a crowd and they're really wanting the entertainment of the dock jumping. Most of the people that's what they bring us in for is that. But then you have a lot of people that do that, so they'll just show up to participate. So it just kind of works out.
Speaker 1:And I guess at that event you probably get some non-hunting breeds too.
Speaker 2:Oh yeah, absolutely yeah, there's a lot. I mean, any breed can do that. If they like water and like to retrieve, any breed will do it. The primary breed that I see they're still Labradors. I see some GSPs, I see a lot of Malinois, border Collies, so there's, you know, there's all different types of breeds that do that.
Speaker 1:Yeah, all those are very high-active, high-energy dogs.
Speaker 2:Yeah, exactly, it's smart.
Speaker 1:So is this like I guess, for lack of better words when you win there's only one winner, right Like a field trial? You don't have, like you don't pass a test. You're either win or don't win. Is that right? Yeah?
Speaker 2:we do.
Speaker 2:It's all based on points.
Speaker 2:Points start and then after the second series unless you disqualify your set, like if you go out for whatever reason the first and second series, you're kind of guaranteed the first and second series and then we make a cut to the top 12, open and am, and it's all based on points, and then after the third series we take the top six and then if you finish the test you will get, you get your, you get points based on your placement and that can go towards a United Kennel Club registration title that they can build their title up through the points.
Speaker 2:So they are working towards that. A lot of these guys are chasing the team of the year, which is also based on the points, and then you have to have four points to qualify for the crown. So first, second and third place get six, five and four points so they're automatically qualified, and then fourth, fifth and sixth will get three, two and one point so you can earn points to try to go play again and place and try to get that fourth point to get into the championship. So that's pretty much what they're doing.
Speaker 1:So when a dog wins the crown, that's the only winner, that's the champion, right yeah?
Speaker 2:Well, we place them one, two and three. Well, we place all the top six. But the first, second and third place get to come back, okay, and they all get a payout. So this year's payout, I think the first place open player will make about $26,000. And then I don't even know what third and fourth or second and third is, but it's you know, our whole pot together with both divisions is like $75,000. So first, second, third gets a payout in both pro and am and it's all based on the money that's gone in throughout the year. There's a percentage that goes from every entry back into that pot and that builds over the year. There's a percentage that goes from every entry back into that pot and that builds over the year.
Speaker 1:How many separate events are held each year?
Speaker 2:We held. This year we had 30 qualifiers to get into the crown and next year I have about 30, 33.
Speaker 1:And they're scattered all over the US, or is it concentrated? Yeah, they really are.
Speaker 2:I mean, they're really all over Once you get to the middle of the United States. It really is hard to get out west and we've tried several times. We did go to Montana last year and that was pretty they're. They're going to try to do it again and I think it'll be better for their second year. We've tried to go out to California like two or three times and it just doesn't. It just never comes. They can't get the numbers. You have to have 30 dogs entered to hold an event. Um, so it's. That's always a problem to try to get people. They want to watch it the first time.
Speaker 1:They don't want to play it the first time. I've always heard it's extremely challenging, right, it's very challenging, it really is.
Speaker 2:It's really challenging and, like you know, if you talk to a lot of the competitors, I think that what they like about it number one it's competitive. So if you're a competitive guy, I think you'd like that. Number two it's different every time. Everything, no matter where you go, it's just going to be different. You don't know what you're going to walk into. So I think it's just the excitement and challenge of all that.
Speaker 1:You mentioned the UKC. Does the UKC, is it partnered with the SRS? Do they sanction the titles?
Speaker 2:I mean, how does that come into play? Yeah, I actually we actually partnered in 29, uh, 2018, I think is when we partnered Um, I had worked on that for a long time because, you know everybody, we kind of gave them a title, just an SRS title, and everybody put that in their pedigree, on their, on their breeding ads really not in their pedigree, Cause it just was what they did and so I went to United Kennel Club and said, you know, look, these dogs, they deserve a title. And so we did partner and so we built a point system to build on how to get your title. And that's been a big thing too. I think a lot of the guys and gals really like having that title on their pedigree.
Speaker 1:Before dogs can compete in the SRS series, do they have to have any kind of titles in UKC prior to that?
Speaker 2:We suggest that they have a CH title, a UKC HRCH Hunting Retriever Club title, or a Master Hunter title, or a master hunter title or senior hunter title, whatever. Whatever the highest level is we require. We don't require it. We suggest you have it because the dog you know. But basically we don't want somebody showing up paying the entry and then totally be like oh my gosh, I wasn't expecting this and we aren't ready for this, and then they're upset. So we require I wasn't expecting this and we aren't ready for this, and then they're upset, so we don't require it. But we suggest that you have a high title because you're playing a higher level sport and you pretty much need to have had those titles before you come up here and play.
Speaker 1:Are you seeing more young people getting involved in this, or is it the opposite? Yes, no, I'm seeing more young and I'm seeing more women people getting involved in this, or is it the opposite?
Speaker 2:Yes, no, I'm seeing more young and I'm seeing more women, which is unbelievable to me. My team of the year winner this year on the amateur side is a girl named Leah Spivey with her dog Kane, and she chased that team of the year title and she got it. So I've seen more girls and, yeah, I feel like they are younger, that are coming in. I have the middle age range. That's really strong. Then I have some guys that have been here all 25 years. It's really kind of spread out, which is good.
Speaker 1:Yeah, I like that In the SRS. What percentage of those entries I'm talking about the dogs, would you say are Labrador Retrievers?
Speaker 2:Oh, I'd say 99% of them are Wow.
Speaker 1:That's high.
Speaker 2:Yeah, I have two Chesapeakes in the crown and the rest are Labradors.
Speaker 1:Wow, that's a lot.
Speaker 2:And that's usually the common denominator. If I get a Golden or a Chesapeake, it's usually just one, if we even get that. I mean, in the qualifiers you may see more of them, but the ones that make it to the championship they're pretty much all Labradors.
Speaker 1:Okay, I figured it out. I didn't know it was that strong. I thought it would probably be like 90%, but yeah, that's strong showing for labs. Oh yeah, now in the dock diving, since you all do kind of also operate that event correctly or correct, I should say. And again, you've just got a whole mixture of breeds there, it's not just retrievers, and they're like, I think it's wherever you go and it's a huge sport.
Speaker 2:There's several organizations and they're all over the United States and there's an event happening in multiple places every single weekend and it just is, and so you just have. I mean, I've had a Yorkie before, and I remember it because it was a New Yorkie. I've seen Dachshunds before, and I remember it because it was a New Yorkie. I've seen dachshunds, I've seen all kinds of small dogs and we have a little dog division.
Speaker 1:Oh, really Okay.
Speaker 2:We call it the mini fly. And then we have a lot of Malinois. There's a lot of kind of Whippet. There's a breed out there that's called that they've done that's a Malinois and a Whippet it's. They're kind of the dock diving group is kind of making you know that breed. I'm not sure about that, but they are really good and they're the one they're leading the pack right now because they have the strength and they have the distance that they can, you know, and the speed and all that that they can get far and and you know, cause that's like a, it's like track and field, it's like long jump and high jump. So that's what they're all judged on. But I mean, if the dog likes to retrieve, you know, so they have their toy that they're going to go get and they don't mind water then it's really easy to get them started in it.
Speaker 1:Now I know you told me that ESPN is no longer involved in the series. Do they still host the shows, the events on TV?
Speaker 2:No, I moved over to when that happened. That was in God, that was 2006, I think and so I moved over to Outdoor Life Network, which is not even a thing anymore. I think it changed to Versus and that's what I went to then, and then it changed to NBC Sports. So right now, the last five years I've been airing on Discovery and I think I'm going to move to a network called WaypointTVcom, because they have a lot of really good outdoor programming and I have my podcast there. So I'm talking about trying to get on their streaming service, because they're kind of on a bunch of the streaming televisions like you know, samsung and Roku and all that kind of stuff, so it could air in multiple places. So I'm looking to do that for next year. But we also live stream the entire event. So in three weeks, when we go to Shreveport on Tuesday, we start Series 1 on the 29th and we'll live stream every day, all day, until we get through it.
Speaker 1:Will that be on YouTube?
Speaker 2:That'll be on our Super Retriever Series YouTube page and you can go to our website or Facebook and find the link, but we'll run it all day long, and so if you're a real big enthusiast, it's good. We've got great commentation that helps you through what's happening and teaching, and then you get to see the whole thing.
Speaker 1:Where do you try to get your pool of judges from?
Speaker 2:It's hard, especially because we're at the. You know, this time of year is like Super Bowl season for all of us. We have the HRC Grand, and then you've got the Master National, and then you have SRS and their events are so much larger as far as those are running several different tests, different flights, and so they're taking all those judges. So I try really hard to get my judges pool early. We like to have judges that are, you know, especially at the crown. We're looking for judges that are really qualified in bird placement and you know just understanding our rules or just understanding you know just understanding our rules or just understanding you know retriever games, because even if they're not, you know, really great at understanding our rules. If they can, if they've judged retriever trials, it's not going to be hard to figure out.
Speaker 1:They're going to know what to look for, I guess.
Speaker 2:Yeah, they're going to know what to look for. It's a point system and we have a field rep that literally in every event we have. We have a field rep there that's sitting with those judges making sure that they're on point, that they're coordinating together. Their points are always really close together when they're looking at every point. So we've made sure about that since the beginning, at every point. So we've made sure about that since the beginning.
Speaker 1:Nice. So if someone who comes in off the street really no experience and maybe sees it on TV or on your channel on YouTube and wants to get involved. What would your advice be?
Speaker 2:I would say to come to an event, check it out and just watch one. Watch one the first time and talk to some of the handlers. They're always open to talking to you. And look, you can maybe talk to most of those handlers and I would say 50% of them did just that. They saw it on TV, they wanted to go play it and then they did.
Speaker 2:And then I think if you're really wanting to jump in, I think you need to commit yourself to a year of trying to hit you know three and four of them, because it takes a while to get that point system in your head and just understanding the games that's real different from the other ones and you're not going to be probably successful the first two or three times. It's just going to take you time to get you know rolling on that. And really the guys there are super helpful, which is not always a thing I don't think, but I always hear about that. Oh yeah, I talked to so-and-so and he was so helpful in getting me started and teaching me what to look for and how to do it. So I'm always glad to hear that.
Speaker 1:You know it's funny. Now you refresh my memory I actually reached out to you with those same questions. Oh yeah, I want to learn more about it, and I think you referred me to a couple people here in Texas that it's well known and they have been very nice to me about that. Yeah, I'm going to have both of them on at different times, good good.
Speaker 1:Yeah, yeah, but you know it's like a mystique about it, because I've joined the Retriever Club, the Alamo Retriever Club, and I was asking those guys they're all very knowledgeable about the sport, or not, srs.
Speaker 2:But yeah, yeah.
Speaker 1:And they even said you know some of the guys I asked. They wasn't really sure what all it consists of.
Speaker 2:Yeah, yeah, so anyway, that's interesting.
Speaker 1:So do you think that the series, even though it was born, a television-developed event and that can really change a lot of things?
Speaker 2:Oh yeah it changed a lot of things.
Speaker 1:But do you feel like it's still test hunting skills and skills that are needed in the field when you're hunting, or is it more of a sport?
Speaker 2:No, it's definitely testing your. It's definitely testing your your in the field challenges and you can probably you can probably ask any one of those guys that if they were going to pick a dog to go hunting with and they're looking at either a field trial dog or maybe a grand hunting retriever champion and then they see a super retriever series champion or one that's been through that, and see that title, they're going to pick that dog Because that dog. And I'm not knocking the other organizations because I love those organizations. I'm part of HRC but the SRS dog is truly the best all-around dog in the world. It just is. They can do absolutely anything. They can do long, they can do short, they're hunting machines, so they're the best all-around dog in the world.
Speaker 1:Well, I've heard the more digging I've done to find out about the sport, is that the SRS is, you know, much more complex, complicated, you know, kind of like you're saying it's a step above some of the other testing and trials.
Speaker 2:Oh, yeah, for sure, you know, and you've got to have a good dog to be able to do that. And you know, I always, you know, I have people come to me and like, oh, you guys do all these silly tests and there's no way that would happen. You know there's no way that dog, that would happen. You know there's no way a dog would have to make a 400 yard retrieve. And I'm just like, well, okay, um, I actually was on a hunt where a dog made a 400 yard retrieve. It was a sailing deuce. I watched her do it and so, you know, I and I got to do. I got to experience a lot of duck hunting I when I produced a waterfowl show for 10 years, so I got to see a lot of that. So the things that I see in our tests, yeah, it can happen.
Speaker 1:So what was the waterfowl show that you produced?
Speaker 2:I did a show called Water Dog for like almost nine, nine and a half years Wow.
Speaker 1:That sounds familiar. What channel was that? I've seen so many hunting shows.
Speaker 2:It was on. We were on Outdoor Life for a long time. I think we were only on Outdoor Life Network which changed to Versus, like I said. But you know I got to. I mean I'm super privileged to got to go on all of those hunts. But you know I got to go to Maine and Reno and you know just Arkansas, just every place, and you can imagine never duck hunting. I got the privilege of going and it was, you know it was based on the dog and we hunted with the never dog always.
Speaker 1:And it was a lot of fun. Now, shannon, how many dogs do you have?
Speaker 2:I have one Labrador, and she's only got her HR title because she won't honor.
Speaker 1:Yeah, that honor's tough, isn't it it?
Speaker 2:is tough, she's pretty stingy.
Speaker 1:Yeah, it's a. Oh, I've got my oldest male. He's challenging. The only advice I would give you and God knows, there's many more experienced- trainers than me is just denials, Just deny that. That's it. I don't know any other way to fix it, but uh, so yeah, but you're so. You own a lab, but do you hunt?
Speaker 2:with it.
Speaker 1:Do you actually hunt with it?
Speaker 2:I've only had. I'm only hunting with her one time and I would love to have more time. That's that's.
Speaker 1:My biggest problem is having time but you know, I think to your story is really neat. I mean you got into this industry, hardcore gundog industry.
Speaker 2:Oh yeah, that I love.
Speaker 1:By being a producer.
Speaker 2:Yeah.
Speaker 2:I actually started when I like and I just I just built this video and I just pretty much told my story in this video that I'll show. But you know, I started in my family company and we just did outdoor programming. So I really was and my family still is very much into fishing. So my first editing jobs are all based around fishing. And then when the games yeah, fishing shows. So when the game started, when the great outdoor game started, you know all the people I work with, you know they went to bass fishing or fly fishing or timber sports or whatever.
Speaker 2:People got kind of separated up and they put me in FINUF and I was just like, well, what, what? And I was upset about it because none of my colleagues were going with me. I was having to go work with another producer and I was scared and I didn't want to do it. And I'm like, well, what am I doing? They're like, well, what am I doing? They're like, well, you're doing retrievers. And I'm like, well, what is that? What does that even mean? But the very first time I saw it, when I saw that handler blow that whistle and that dog turned around and looked at him, it just floored me. I was just like oh my gosh, this is the greatest thing ever, so I fell in love with it.
Speaker 1:The first thing I saw, You're not the first person I've heard say that. Actually, even this week that Sally got started, you see, and so you know, like I've heard this, you know because I've been interviewing a lot of people and I bet within the last week at least three times I've heard someone say you know, I saw, I want to be able to have a dog that can do that.
Speaker 2:Yeah, it was, it was. I mean, I had a Labrador at home at the time that just laid on the couch and she wouldn't even bring a ball back to me, you know. But I was like, oh, I feel so bad. I didn't ever. I should have trained you to be like this, cause this is what you'd have liked to have done.
Speaker 2:And I didn call home where you? Where'd you grow up? I grew, I grew up in arkansas, so I grew up in my country. Yeah, I grew up in. Little rock is primarily where I grew up and I did. I've lived partially in st louis, missouri and little rock most of my life, back and forth. I'm getting ready to go back to st louis or st charles because my kids and my grandkids are up there, so I'm I'm moving back there, probably in the next six months. So right now now I'm in Flippin, arkansas, which is the north central part of the state on the White River.
Speaker 1:So, ok, nice area yeah it's beautiful, it's just beautiful. Well, let's see, I was just trying to think if there's anything else I had. You've really I had so many questions about Super Retriever Series. Now it's really kind of coming, finally coming together. I just I knew enough to be dangerous, um, but I, I, I am going to make a point to make sure I get to go watch some in person because I think, yeah, you should do that well, if you're in texas.
Speaker 2:Uh, did you talk to roadie? Yes or luke, as I said. There he has a couple events and luke has an event in the spring, so you can definitely go to one of theirs.
Speaker 1:And you know I reached out to them because of you and they were super nice, oh yeah.
Speaker 2:Great guys.
Speaker 1:They're both going to be on here. Oh good, luke was supposed to be on. I was supposed to be with him Tuesday this week and I've been sick and kind of under the weather and we just put it off. Yeah, yeah, and then he's getting you know. A lot of these guys are getting ready for the Grand and all that stuff too.
Speaker 2:Yeah, I mean, yeah, luke is not probably going to the Grand, but he's probably getting ready for this because we're right after this. Okay, but yeah, those would be perfect examples to go watch and then you know you can watch. Like I said, you can watch the live stream on the 29th, you can watch Luke and. Rhodey actually compete.
Speaker 1:I'm going to watch that and if nothing else, I actually may try to go in person.
Speaker 2:Oh, yeah, okay, That'd be awesome.
Speaker 1:Because that's not too far right.
Speaker 2:No, it's three points, yeah it's the upper corner of Louisiana.
Speaker 1:It's basically East Texas yeah exactly. Well, no, that's, that's good. I'll do that. Well, I guess you know I may do a follow-up one of these days after I know more about it.
Speaker 2:Yeah, that would be great, no problem.
Speaker 1:I was so green and such a blank canvas on the retriever series stuff that I couldn't. I couldn't get too indepth with you on an interview because I was just learning myself.
Speaker 2:Yeah, yeah, oh, that's awesome, this is great.
Speaker 1:But well, shannon, thank you so much for taking time. And I look forward to meeting you in person one of these days. Yep, and I'll be talking about your series on my podcast.
Speaker 2:Well, thank you so much. We appreciate it.
Speaker 1:All right, thank you so much.
Speaker 2:Thank you.
Speaker 1:Bye-bye.