Gundog Nation
A show to bring together gundog enthusiasts, trainers, and handlers with discussion focused on all breeds and styles of gundogs.
Gundog Nation
Gundog Nation #012: Rody Best - Best Retrievers, SRS and Training
In this engaging conversation, Kenneth Witt interviews Rody Best, the owner of Best Retrievers, who shares his extensive experience in dog training, particularly with hunting dogs. Rody discusses his early experiences with hunting, the transition to professional dog training, and the importance of building strong relationships with dogs. He highlights his achievements in various competitions, including the Super Retriever Series, and the challenges faced in training and competing with multiple dogs. Rody also emphasizes the significance of setting realistic expectations for clients and the balance between hunting and training. Additionally, he introduces the unique whelping service offered by Best Retrievers, which helps clients breed their dogs without the hassle of managing a litter themselves. In this conversation, Rody Best and Kenneth Witt delve into the intricacies of dog breeding, training, and competition. They discuss the satisfaction derived from breeding and training dogs, the complexities of the Super Retriever Series (SRS) and Master National events, and the evolution of amateur competitors in the field. The conversation also highlights the impact of live streaming on dog training visibility and the excitement of exploring new breeds, particularly the English Cocker Spaniel, in hunting scenarios.
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Hello and welcome to Gun Dog Nation. This is Kenneth Witt and I'm coming to you from Texas. I want you to know that Gun Dog Nation is more than just a podcast. It's a movement to unite those who want to watch a well-trained dog do what it's bred to do. Also, we are set out to try to encourage youth, to get encouraged in the sport of gun dogs, whether it's hunting, competition, trials, hunt tests, all the above. This is a community of people that are united to preserve our heritage of gun dog ownership and also to be better gun dog owners. So if you'll stay tuned to all of our episodes, we're going to have people on here to educate you about training, about nutrition, health. Anything can make you a better gun dog owner. It's my pleasure to welcome our listeners and please join our community. All right, welcome back to Gundog Nation. This is Kenneth Witt and my guest. We are both in Texas, different parts of the state. Today I'm over in Midland. Chris, where are you?
Speaker 2:at. I'm east of Austin, about 30 minutes, in a little town called Page.
Speaker 1:Oh, that's right. Okay, I did a little work over in LaGrange, but it's my honor to have this guest on. He was one of the first people I put on my list and he's been really busy and I've been trying to accommodate his hunt test schedule, trial schedule, hunting schedule plus. You do lots of other stuff which we'll talk about. But, rhody, tell the listeners and you're more well-known than this industry than me but still introduce yourself and tell us about you.
Speaker 2:Well, my name's Rhody Best and I own and operate along with my wife Kristen. We own and operate Best Retrievers. I think we're at year we started Best Retrievers in 06. So we're at 18 years right now. A couple more years we celebrate in 20 years of Best Retrievers. There's a whole other. We can get into my background before Best Retrievers at some point if you want to.
Speaker 2:But we do a variety of stuff. We're a large operation. It's not just me and my wife. We have four or five other trainers that work with us and we do anything from puppy whelping service to basic obedience of all breeds. And then, of course, my favorite thing is the competitive side of it the hunt test, the field trials and the Super Retriever Series. So I think if I wanted to sit back and just relax and make some money, I could probably just do boarding and obedience and probably be able to have a lot less hectic life. But I just have never been able to let go of the competitive side of it. It's what motivates me every morning to get up and work hard.
Speaker 1:Well, it definitely shows. So, Rhody, how old were you when you started hunting with dogs?
Speaker 2:Well, I grew up in a central Texas town called Brownwood and of course you know, in Texas you can do a variety of things, but one of the things we did was dove hunting and my dad would take us out. We had a funny story. We started with a dog named Bear he was a black lab and then we would sit out on the back porch and a random dove would fly by and my dad would shoot at it. I don't even remember what Bear would do if he would eat it or bring it back, or what he would do with it. And then I think our next dog was another black lab and he named this one fred, fred the lab, because he had a boss at work that he didn't care for very much and so he thought it would be funny to name this dog bear fred. So, uh, we had fred, and fred was one of those dogs that had no quit in him. You could throw a stick up in a tree and he would literally climb the tree to go get it. The only place we found that he could not get sticks and bring he would bring them to you and drive you absolutely berserk with them was on top of the shed. So by the time Fred died there was a small bonfire on top of this shed, so we had to get up there one day and clean all that out.
Speaker 2:But yeah, I got started in Central Texas dove hunting and you know, really honestly, I'm not one of your classic textbook-style hunters. I wasn't greatly influenced by my father. He didn't take me. My parents were divorced and I was raised by my dad. He's not a big hunter, never has been. But you know, on weekends we were bored, my two brothers and I, and we had 25 acres and we would go exploring. We called it exploring and we tell my dad on Saturday morning we're going exploring and we might not come back till Saturday night, and he doesn't know this. But we didn't stay on just the 25 acres, we explored all over the county. Probably all the neighbors knew us and I think that's created a love for the outdoors and a love for animals.
Speaker 2:And then fast forward to college. I was going to school at Texas A&M and going to school and working and one of my coworkers asked me one day if I wanted to go on a goose hunt. And I had heard about retrievers. I grew up with a retriever but I had really not a clue what they were really truly capable of. And looking back now, this dog probably wasn't that impressive for what I know now, but at that time it was an unbelievable experience. You know the fact that you could sit and enjoy a hunt and have the companionship of an animal next to you at the same time. It hit all the chords with me. I was outdoors, I was hunting and I was enjoying being with an animal. So to me it was love at first sight and it kind of took off from there and I joined a retriever club. I became very active in the Bryan College Station Retriever Club.
Speaker 2:I started off with a couple of dogs of my own and before I knew it some buddies of mine were asking me to train their dogs and and you know, I, I, I, I get bored easily. So just training my own dog, you know, was, uh, was boring after a while. So heck, I'll take on some projects and make a little extra cash. So I did that and I was getting a degree in and Wildlife and Fisheries from Texas A&M. I graduated with that and then went back and got my master's degree in agricultural education and I was looking around for jobs and at the time the retriever thing in me had kind of really taken off. I was really enjoying it.
Speaker 2:I was doing a lot of that and I came across a job opportunity in Hutto at a place called Triple Crown Dog Academy. My predecessors were two very well-known people, carl Gunzer and Jeff Hennard. Carl is now part of Purina in their sporting dog department. I'm sorry, my phone looks like it's about to go dead. I'm going to stick it on the charger here. Hopefully this works. I didn't even think about my phone. Looks like it's about to go dead. I'm going to stick it on the charger here. Okay, hopefully this works. I didn't even think about charging my phone. I may have to take a break and charge this. Let's see.
Speaker 2:Carl Gunzer and Jeff Hennard was a hunt test guy turned field trial pro and they were mentors of mine. So I looked up to them and I started working there at Triple Crown. I spent four years there building up a department and then one day they called me and said we need you to. Basically I had two months to go find a job because they were slimming down their I guess cutting back, and they were only going to focus on obedience and boarding and no more retriever training. So it, you know, kind of caught me off guard. But at the same time I was able to take all of my clients with me. So my wife and I found 21 acres out here in Page and we started off in a mobile home with 20 dog crates in a bedroom. So it's kind of taken off from there.
Speaker 1:Wow, that's interesting. So it's kind of you talk about your childhood stuff. You, we have a lot in common. My dad was a musician and piano player, very talented musician, played a lot of famous people and, and you know, he didn't really hunt much either. But but I had a. His dad was a big dog person and again, not much a hunter, just trained. So I kind of grew up just the love. But you know, developed the love and the outdoors by myself is right my brothers don't hunt either. They're musicians in nashville same.
Speaker 1:My brothers don't hunt either isn't that strange, uh, I mean, I I think one brother's hunting with me one time, which that's a real funny story. One of these days I gotta put on this podcast, excuse me, but anyway. So, um, so you've been in page this, so how many years now was that? Would that be that you've been doing this well?
Speaker 2:I started. Um well, you know, back in the late 90s I was doing the retriever thing in the retriever club and training my buddy's dogs. And then moved to Hutto in 2002, left there in 2006, and started Best Retrievers. So it's been gosh 30-plus years.
Speaker 1:So you've never all that education. You really don't have a day job. That's amazing. I envy you.
Speaker 2:I envy you I want to be you. Well, it took me 10 years to pay that off and I didn't really feel like I got anything out of it, honestly.
Speaker 1:But oh well, and educated a good school too, uh that's right so this is start.
Speaker 1:Now it's all starting to click with me. You know, like a hunting dog, you know everything starts to click. A lot comes on. Now I see why you were so recommended by lots of people that I respect for your training ability and someone who's brain to pick and someone, matter of fact, to reach out to to learn about the srs. I was told by shannon already actually to reach out to you, so now I know why. I can't imagine roadie, how many dogs there's no substitute, there's no university could train the experience that you have. It's unbelievable. I don't know anybody that's trained that long. You know, full time.
Speaker 2:Yeah, I would say I have a very diverse background but because I started out, you know, when my wife and I started out with Best Retrievers, I'd take any dog that came. You know, I needed to put food on the table for my family and so we took any dog and a lot of, you know, just mediocre, talented dogs. But I think it shaped me to who I am today and that I have a knack for training soft dogs. But I think it shaped me to who I am today and that I have a knack for training soft dogs because I can kind of. I know that relationship is ultra important for those kinds of dogs and so and their relationship to me is what I deem most important or most special for me.
Speaker 2:I know some guys that they do it for the fame, they do it for the recognition, they do it for the money, they do it as a means of obtaining life goals or whatever. For me, I do it because I love doing it and I love their relationship. I mean, some of my most proudest moments are the dogs that weren't the A-plus students, they were the C-plus at best, but I went and passed them at a Master National. You know to me you know, and I don't take this the wrong way but anybody can learn how to drive a Corvette. But you know, if you can jump in a go-kart and beat some of them guys, then all the more power to you. For me, that makes it more special for me.
Speaker 1:You're right. It's easy to coach that five-star recruit isn't it.
Speaker 2:Oh sure, I mean, there's a certain amount of skill that's involved, obviously, but I like the challenge. I get bored if it's easy. I guess my little ADHD I don't know.
Speaker 1:We're a lot alike. That's something I'll pick your brain about off the air too. Well, I'm going to tell the people this, the listeners this about you. I called you. You didn't know who in the world I was. I'm nothing to you. I don't have any kind of clout to benefit you in any way. I asked you about training and wanting to be a better trainer myself, and you volunteered to let me come and just watch, and you told me that you were the type of person that wanted to share everything, share your knowledge instead of keeping that you know top secret, so no one can steal your ideas. Who may compete against you one day or something you wanted to share. That I really like that about you. It says a lot about your character, but people should know that that's what kind of guy you are.
Speaker 2:Well, I appreciate that. I think my wife, we used to have this argument for years and it was when we first started out at Triple Crown. She raised kids, she, she had a little daycare out of her house. That was how we made extra income. And then when we moved out to Best Retrievers you know we were out in the middle of the country. There wasn't a day, an opportunity to really babysit kids anymore. She was busy raising our boys. But she had to, kind of slowly.
Speaker 2:I kind of had to push her to get her to help me with the business because it was, you know, I was starting all on my own and I had, you know what it's like to be a dog trainer. You're not just a dog trainer, you're an electrician, you're a plumber, you're a kennel cleaner, you're an accountant, you're a CPA. You know there's just endless amounts of work. So I kind of had to get her to start helping me a little bit and you know, she slowly started getting better. But when she was frustrated she would always say you're naturally talented at this, it just comes easy for you.
Speaker 2:And I said, no, it doesn't. You know, the more I work, the luckier I get. It's about hard work and putting in the time. And so we had this argument for years about how I would argue I'm not any talented than anybody else, I just work harder, you know, and and. But I have come after training thousands of of or hundreds of clients. Some of them pick up on it very easily and some of them don't. So I have learned that there is some good merit in what my wife was saying, and I think that it does come a little naturally for for others and I guess for me it came a little more naturally for me.
Speaker 1:Yeah, I think that's true. I mean, you know, I'm nowhere, even in your league, but I've studied so much, read so much, been to so many seminars and training and British methods, english, American methods, you know, and I've still learned. I'm learning to listen to you, you know, and I think it's a lifelong process, but I do think that there are some natural talent to people that are just having to act. For, rhodey, we talked a little bit before we started here about field trial and hunt test. So, rhodey, we talked a little bit before we started here about field trial and hunt test. Let's start by what's your most decorated dog that you've owned? Oh, wow, your rock star superstar, hall of famer.
Speaker 2:Oh, that's really hard to narrow down because they all had different assets, you know that made them who they are today. My knee jerk reaction was one of my first dogs. That was Jazz. She was a grand hunting, retriever, champion, master hunter, passed one master national. I didn't start running master national until 2009. And by then she was too old to really go after the hall of fame title, so she was one for one in master national.
Speaker 2:She was a super retriever series dog. She's kind of the dog that put my name on the map as far as the super retriever series goes, because when I I ran, I ran el campo in 04, uh, with a couple of dogs, and I did okay but I didn't do great um, but I got the itch for it. And then, um, my next event, loudoun County, virginia, and she got third and she impressed Justin Tackett who was basically him, and Shannon were running it at the time so much that Justin asked me to join a group called Team Waterdog and I mean my career took off from there. So I would say she's the one I remember the most, just because she helped put my name on the map and and our logo um is her, uh, she used to just leap out into the water, and my wife took the line of her back and made our logo out of it, so that was pretty cool now.
Speaker 1:So do you even have a count of the stuff that you've accomplished? I mean the awards.
Speaker 2:I don't really keep. I know some people like to. I don't really keep track of it. I mean, every once in a while, you know, we'll look back. I can remember because I don't run the Grand anymore. So I think 14 was the last time I ran the Grand and at that time I had trained 13 grand hunter retriever champions. So, um, not not a big number by any means. I'd been running it for seven or eight years at that point. Um, I've probably got over 20 master national hall of fame dogs, well over a hundred master titled dogs, master hunters Um, I've you know, one, I don't know four or five Super Retriever Series events.
Speaker 2:The one event that eludes me, and that's the one I'm leaving for tomorrow, is the Crown Championship. That's the one event that I just have never seemed to win. One of my trainers won it a few years ago, luke Coor, who worked for me. He won it with a dog named Bang, but it's always eluded me. I don't know why. I've been in the crown just about every year since the beginning, but I just never seem to be able to be, I don't know, consistent. I guess that's a word. Yeah, yeah, I'm looking for.
Speaker 1:Now and Rod, I ask this with the understanding that I'm still learning all the titles and trials and tests what's the hardest? Is the Super Retriever the hardest trial test? Yeah, what is the hardest?
Speaker 2:They're all hard in their own way Okay, but I would say the Super Retriever series is the most difficult because you have to be good at all of them. So you can't that used to, I'd say, seven or eight years ago, you could be really good at one aspect and okay at another and do well. But in the last couple of years the Super Retriever Series if you have a bad break at all at any point, if you're not very good or excellent at every venue the field trial side of it, the hunt test side of it, then the hunt savvy side of it then you're not going to make it, you're just not. I mean, this year was my most disappointing year in a way because it was the year of near misses. So last year I qualified seven dogs for the crown championship.
Speaker 2:This year I only qualified three, but I had six others that had points, but just not enough. Four of them only needed one point to qualify and that's just a top six placement. Six place, you get one point. So I chased those points. I chased all over the place trying to get those dogs and, like I said, you have one misstep, one the wind's not blowing when your dog runs or the sun's at a different angle or you know the shadows or whatever. I mean, it just didn't go right and they didn't qualify. I'm still proud of those dogs. They're very, very good dogs but it just didn't work out in our favor this year.
Speaker 1:Yeah, you know what little bit I've heard about it. Everybody kind of says what you say, and I guess there's a lot of stuff that you don't know how they're going to set it up, is my understanding. I've not seen one yet, so I'm going to go watch. But is that correct?
Speaker 2:Well, I heard you say I was listening to one of your podcasts last week actually, and I heard you say you're familiar with Schutzen. So if you know what Schutzen is, you know what your routine is, you practice that routine every day. And for us, we don't know what we're going to go up against In an SRS. We know we're going to run a field trial, but it may be a short retired, a long retired, two retired, all three retired. I mean there's so many variables that can affect what a trial might look like.
Speaker 2:So you have to, and I think that's what I enjoy the most is that you could train for anything. You could train every day for a year and still come up on January 1st and face a scenario you didn't train for. So it's really hard to be prepared for anything and everything like that. And then the same goes for the hunt test scenarios and the hunt savvy scenarios. That's what's great about the SRS is it's whatever a judge can dream up. And I got invited to judge an event in February or March coming up, and I'm looking really forward to it because I'm a very creative person. So those guys, if they're out there listening to this, then they better be ready for some creativity, because we're not going to do the standard status quo. We're going to have some fun.
Speaker 1:Yeah, but so and you also, I guess I know you told me you do field trials too. How many of those do you try to do a year?
Speaker 2:A lot depends on the dogs that I have in kennel at the time. You know, in the last, I'd say in the last several years, last three years, we've run more field trials. I run the qualls, so I don't run the AMs or the opens, but, um, and obviously I can't run the AMs, I'm a pro. But I'd say since Luke Coor came in and we kind of I'd say we tightened our belts a little bit and became extremely competitive.
Speaker 2:We were running, uh think, at one Master National we ran 32 Master National dogs. So we became very top heavy, if that makes sense. We got a lot of really good dogs. And so those owners, you know, they want to go run the Super Retriever Series, they want to go run Master National and they want to be qualified all age, they want to run quals. So, um, that's kind of where my I've been running, probably, I'd say, five to six quals a year for the last two or three years and then probably, oh, 10 or 12 master tests a year and probably 15 super retriever series events a year. So I'm on the road a bunch.
Speaker 1:Wow. Now, rodney, when you go to these events, these tests you're taking quite a bunch of dogs correct Usually On average? How many do you usually take?
Speaker 2:Well, at Master National I took 24. On a weekend event like last weekend, I ran a hunt test, I ran 12, but I strategically run my dogs. So if let's say I'm running last weekend and I'm running this weekend, I'll only run half my crew and then I'll run the other half the next weekend because I don't want to run the same dogs every weekend and let them get loose weekend. Because I don't want to run the same dogs every weekend and let them get loose. They'll get extremely disobedient and they're my business cards. I don't want them acting up out there and making me look like a fool and I want to have a high pass ratio and be successful. So that was something I did. This last spring was I ran a weekend test and then I ran a midweek. I know I'm crazy, but I think I had two days of training. I was running seven days a week and I was training two days and running dogs on five of those days. So it was a difficult schedule to keep up for sure.
Speaker 1:Now, the dogs you're running. I know you are a breeder, We'll talk about that. Are these your dogs that you sell to customers that you're running? I know you are a breeder, We'll talk about that. Are these your dogs that you sell to customers that you're training for?
Speaker 2:Or what's the makeup, I guess.
Speaker 2:I don't run, but about probably. I usually only have one or two personal dogs at a time and that's something that I've speaking of. That's kind of off on a different tangent. But when I run the Super Retriever Series there's a you know oh geez, I forgot the name, I slipped my mind but you're looking for dog of the year, basically where the dog is winning and placing consistently throughout the year. But in my program is once a dog qualifies for the crown, they're done, they stop running.
Speaker 2:That we go back to training, we get them. They may run some other events, but I don't want them beating other dogs at that event because I want to open the door to that young dog coming up or that that new client that's never got to experience it. I mean, imagine a client that his dog's been in training with me for a couple of years and and he goes out and we run an SRS and we run say we run three in a month and his dog gets his teeth kicked in by all my other dogs. He's going to be like well, I don't even want my dog on your truck because I can't compete right now. You know he's not going to want that run. So once my dogs qualify um, that they go on the back burner. We go back to training and I try to open the opportunities up to the other dogs. But uh, back to your, your original question. Um, you know I try to. Why don't you reword the question again? Why don't you come back with that?
Speaker 1:Yeah. So I would assume, when you're going to these trials, you're obviously taking customers' dogs. Are those customers' dogs dogs that you have bred and sold, or are there some outside dogs too?
Speaker 2:Okay, so, yeah, so you know and this brings it probably going to lead into your next question about our whelping service I would say, probably half of my dogs now are dogs that have come through our whelping service. I would say probably half of my dogs now are dogs that have come through our whelping program, but the other half are still. You know, I would call them a cold call. They'll call me up and they've got a dog out of a different breeding from somewhere and we probably I'd say probably honestly 20% of my dogs are what we call remodels and they're dogs that started out somewhere else, um, and for whatever reason, uh were brought to me and and my job is to kind of, uh, you know, clean them up and and and reconstruct them and and get them, you know, successful and so, um, those are the hardest ones, honestly. I was gonna say that sounds tough.
Speaker 1:Yeah, you gotta pretty much go back down to, so that sounds tough.
Speaker 2:Yeah.
Speaker 1:Because you've got to pretty much go back down to break it back down to the basics, kind of.
Speaker 2:Yeah, and they're never going to be.
Speaker 2:And this is one thing I preach to my trainers Once you teach the sit whistle, it's ingrained in them forever.
Speaker 2:And that's one thing I'm very stickler about is I want a dog that sits on a whistle extremely fast and sharp and quick, because I've got a couple of dogs that I run and master in the SRS and they came from other places and their sit whistle wasn't quite as good as it probably could have been.
Speaker 2:And it hurts me sometimes because imagine if you're running a blind retrieve and you're running from point A to point B and the dog drifts, let's say he gets offline to the right about six feet and I blow a whistle and he has a slow, loopy sit to the right and where he was six feet off when I blew the whistle, now he looped to the right and dragged that sit out another 10 feet. Now I'm 16 feet offline and so it really becomes difficult to get back online at that point. And you know, honestly, I have to really play those dogs in a way. I got to play the curve, I got to play that dog to the left side of the line because I know when I blow a whistle they're going to curve to the right or vice versa?
Speaker 1:So we were talking about client dogs and you were taking in some dogs. Some of them were what you call them like not not remodels, rehab, yeah, remodel, remodels.
Speaker 1:so, um, what I was going to ask you along that line is, I guess, roadie, I'm sure I'm trying, I'm trying to say this in a nice way. You know not to, but I'm sure when you take dogs, let's just say a client comes to you, hey, I want you to take my dog Maybe it's me and take it and get it titled. Do you look at the dog and assess it first? What would you do? I mean, obviously I might bring you some dog that's got no chance in the world of making a hunt test or tile or SRS. How do you handle that?
Speaker 2:Well, the first thing I do is try to let the client know I'm realistic with them, in fact, almost to a fault. My wife says I tend to be too pessimistic. I like to call it realistic. The last thing I want to do is give them false hope or false expectations. So I try to explain to them. You know that I'm going to need some time to evaluate the dog. And then you know this is a funny story because I ran three of my son.
Speaker 2:My son, dakota, works for us, he's a trainer and he's been doing it now for a couple of years.
Speaker 2:And anyway, I ran some dogs for him at Master National this year because he and his wife were expecting their second baby and I took three of his dogs.
Speaker 2:And it was funny because the clients afterwards, you know they had been dealing with my son for a year or over a year and he had been training their dog and the way and the style in which he presented and informed them of their work and how they were doing is different than mine and when I was doing the pre-national training. I'm pushing them, I'm pushing them hard and I want to see results and I have high expectations. I want to see results and I have high expectations and my reports weren't as favorable to the client as my son's in the past because they were running master weekend tests and we're fixing to enter the big test. You know they got to be on their game and so it was. My wife was telling me this the other day, how one of the clients had remarked to her how much different our evaluation of their dog's performances was. Fortunately, all three of my son's dogs passed and he has not let me forget that All his dogs passed Master National, but not all mine did. Oh, I'll bet you did eat some crow.
Speaker 2:Oh yeah, he made sure I ate it for sure. But uh, yeah, I mean I I try to let the client know that because the dog has already had history and those habits are already there, that it's not not, it's impossible, it you know, and you never, you never want to say never right in dog training. Um, but it's impossible to completely rid the dog of those habits. They will always have some residue of some kind, and so that's why it's so important that the dog get off to the right start. And that's where people make the biggest mistake is.
Speaker 2:Well, there's two mistakes people make. Number one they don't spend enough money on the bloodline. They try to find a cheap dog and then bring it to the pro and expect them to work miracles with it, but they also don't spend the money on the pro that could give them the best chance at success. And so if you go down that road and you pick somebody that maybe is cheaper or they're closer and location is a big thing a lot of people pick their trainer based on how close they are to them. And I get it. You want your dog close so you can go visit them, and you should. You should definitely go see your dog in training.
Speaker 2:But um, location is a big thing, and if they would put their investment that's what it is, it's an investment in this dog's life right, and if you don't do this right, that dog will be that way for the rest of its life, and so picking a trainer that is successful, has a proven track record, is huge, and so I always encourage people to go number one watch a pro at a hunt test or a field trial and watch how his dogs behave. If that dog doesn't look like it's happy to be there, then your dog's not going to be happy with them either. And look how successful they are. If they're running a hunt test and they're passing one out of five dogs or two out of 10 dogs or something, they're probably not doing something right, but that pro that's consistently passing a lot of dogs and being successful he's probably got it figured out.
Speaker 1:Roddy, I'd kind of like your advice on something this is off of. It wasn't a scripted question by any means, but a guy like me, like I, want both. I'd like to have a dog with some titles I only have one right now that's got a title of all my stuff's pups except for one adult but I'd like to have a dog that I can hunt. I just got through, for example, a my 24-month-old dog, maverick.
Speaker 1:I had him in South Dakota with a buddy my first podcast if you ever got to listen to that but left it up there. He got to hunt for about six weeks in a preserve for pheasant and then I go up opening day and he gets to hunt wild birds with the same guy and me and I bring him back. You know he's retrieved a lot of birds. Can I have a dog that I can go do that with? You know he's retrieved a lot of birds. Can I have a dog that I can go do that with you know hunt and I'm going to take him duck hunting a lot and still be crisp and sharp for trials and tests like that? I mean, can I have both?
Speaker 2:That's a good question, because the first, the, the, the. The first answer is yes, you can have both, but whether you're going to have a, you need to work on one or the other um, and not mix it up constantly. So, in other words, I'm not, I'm not hunting with my dog that I'm fixing to take to the crown championship this week. You know what I mean. We're focusing on the crown championship and we focused on master national. Now, when all this is over with, we're gonna go hunting. We're gonna go and and hunt, but uh, when it gets hunt test season, we're gonna train. So I would say, if you're looking at doing both, I just wouldn't do them both in the same week, okay because he's so maverick has his uh, his hr, uh, seasoned.
Speaker 1:I'd like to get his, you know, his senior hunter akc maybe, and I don't know, maybe take him up one more step in a ukc. But uh, you know, I know that when I bring him back from that upland hunting, you know he's gonna some of his casting. You know we were, he was doing blind retrieving corn and stuff like that. But yeah, I'm just wondering what your thoughts were. I never really asked anybody that question.
Speaker 2:Well, and a lot depends on the owner as well. If the owner is not very good about reinforcing the commands and holding the dog to a high standard, then obviously the dog is going to learn to just blow off commands and not have a high standard. Then obviously the dog is going to learn to just blow off commands and and not have a high standard. Um, I've got some dogs that are just for me. They're robots, I mean they're, they're, they're superheroes. But as soon as that owner shows up that they're a completely different dog, they look like they don't even know the sit command and and I think that's through no fault of their own they just don't understand or don't know. And so I strongly encourage our clients, you know, if you're going to have your dog home and I'm going to give another example, I'm just full of examples tonight. We were on a hunt last year in Oklahoma and we did a big client hunt and we had about eight clients. We're doing a big duck hunt on a pond and we hunted for three days and every day we hunted with two different dogs and then I would be right there with the owners in case they had any problems or questions in a real life hunting scenario and that way we could work on problems that we might not see in training. So the first couple of days went by relatively smooth. I mean, I remember the first day. One of my owners he's a good buddy of mine he had a dog already trained years ago and this was his second dog and she was a little different. She wasn't quite the same. She wasn't as bold, she was a little more timid and a little more unsure of herself and still young. And that first volley of Canada geese that came in and we shoot down like 10 or 12 of them, she was just overwhelmed, you know, and he was worried about he's like I don't know what to do, she's not seeing the birds. I said, well, hold on a second. I jumped up and I ran out in the decoys and I threw her a goose, you know, a couple times and he sent her and and and she started coming back and getting in the hut and we did that about three times and then we we sat down and enjoyed the rest of the hunt and she did it flawless after that. So that was really cool, to just stop and take a chance, you know, and take a break and show the dog what we're actually doing.
Speaker 2:But on day three this is the story I was getting to I had two dogs left that hadn't hunted yet, and one of them was really wild and difficult to control. And I asked him. I said, do you want me to help you with the dog? And fully knowing that he was going to need my help, and he said no, I've got it, no problem. And I'm like, oh, okay, well, let's see how this goes Right, cause I mean you're shooting shotguns and so you want the dogs to be safe. We're in lay down blinds, so you know how dangerous that can be.
Speaker 2:So we start out the hunt and, uh, I decided to get close to this other dog that was pretty wild, just so I could be there to help. And I'll be dang that guy surprised the heck out of me and he had total control, that dog. And I'm impressed. I'm like, wow, you know. And the first ducks come in and he had his dog steady the shot and out of nowhere comes another dog and I'm like, oh, wow, that's not the dog I expected to have the problems. So within 10 or 15 minutes I'm, I'm completely changing the blinds with another person. I said I need to go help this guy. So I'm over there helping him for the rest of the hunt and and I would have started out the hunt saying I'm gonna you were gonna have problems with this dog and this dog's going to be fine. But as soon as the hunt started, it was the exact opposite. And so you know, you never know, you just never know, until you get into a hunting situation, how the dogs are going to act and what's going to happen.
Speaker 1:Dr Jekyll and Mr Hyde right, yeah, yeah, no, that's something else. I'm getting ready to do a duck hunt with Maverick for the first time and next month, but uh, the pheasant hunt was good. I'm actually gonna do it again with him, but you know, it's uh there's. There's just nothing like hunting with your own dog and and I didn't get to fully raise him, but all the other stuff most dogs I raised myself and and train, but uh, but yeah, no, that's, that's, that's good to know. So how do you guys? I know you're super busy and I've heard good things about your kennels too. I've heard nothing but good about your whole crew, but how many litters do you usually have a year?
Speaker 2:Well. So that's an interesting question. So we're not actually quote a breeder because we don't keep females in kennel for breeding purposes. We have a whelping service. So it just wasn't practical for us and, honestly, I don't like. I call it playing God, it's like controlling and manipulating breedings. I just if a client wants to breed his dog and we got a good male, then that's great. I just if a client wants to breed his dog and we got a good male, then that's great. But I'm not going to have eight females and try to be breeding them all the time and trying to make money off of them. I just, that's just not my game.
Speaker 2:But we found the need, though, for clients who had real nice dogs but just didn't have the time or the means for raising a litter. And one day my wife said you know, we ought to welelp that litter for them. And I said you're crazy or you. You lost your mind. We don't want to do puppies, no way. You know, we got our hands full with all these other things. No, we could, we could offer a service, and and I'm like, oh my gosh. And so nine times out of ten, I think my wife's got a crazy idea. She's right and it's a good idea and this a good idea. So what we found out within a couple of years of doing this whelping services we can help control the situation from start to finish.
Speaker 2:So let's say, maggie is wanting, the owner's wanting Maggie to be bred. Well, I trained Maggie, I've spent years with her, I know her personality and I know which kind of dog would be a good match for her. So we can either go in kennel with a male we have here or we can go out of kennel to another breeding out there, and I can recommend something based on my knowledge and background of her personality and her good qualities that she has and her bad qualities. What would counter that? And then, when the owner drops the dog off, we take care of everything from A to Z. So they drop the dog off about a week prior to their birth and then we basically take care of everything from the birthing process to raising the puppies, to talking to the new owners and doing the go-homes. And then the owner basically comes and picks a female up after we've nursed them or removed them from nursing to the puppies and they, they get a check and and we get the.
Speaker 2:The benefit, the true benefit for us is the fact that all these people that come pick up their puppy, they see us, they meet us, they, they see our facilities, they see some of our dogs in action maybe, and they're like you know, this is a pretty place. I'd love to have my dog trained here, and so that breeding that I recommended and had something to do with that I really, you know, thought would be a good breeding then comes back to our kennel and then we spend several years training it and our product quality has gone sky high because we're not just waiting for some backyard breeding to come into our program anymore, we're staying booked with just dogs that come out of our whelping program. So it's been a huge blessing in disguise.
Speaker 1:That's remarkable service because, like me, I may have some really good female dogs, really good bloodlines. I'm not a breeder, don't want to be a breeder Puppies. You talk about responsibility, that's wh. A breeder Don't want to be a breeder, puppies is a. You talk about responsibility, that's a whelping. I don't want your wife's job for no amount of money, but that's you know. You remind me the only other. I've never heard anybody else do that. But one other kennel at Wild Rose Kennel in Mississippi has a similar type thing. I bought a female pup from there, trained her, ended up she was a really, really good dog and then took her back after I had all her health tests at two and they did a whelping service. I didn't have to do anything. They sold the pups and just split the money with me. I guess I just wanted to have one litter off of her. I didn't keep a puppy, but I really like your off service. That's a great idea.
Speaker 2:That's genius, I think. Well, it's been like I said, and I have seen some of the puppies and I've probably added more dogs to my personal string than I needed to, but you know they'll be like. Well, we're going to breed like. We just talked to a client tonight about breeding his dog and I told my wife I said I want a female out of that breeding. That's a good breeding, you know. So it's kind of like my wife and I used to work in a pet store in college and we ended up with so many dadgum animals at home because, you know, and that same thing with his whelping service, we put two and two together, you know, put a male and female together.
Speaker 1:I'm like get a great satisfaction when you've picked that breeding, you've paired those up and then you raise that pup and you compete with that pup and you see how it turned out.
Speaker 2:So that makes you more knowledgeable.
Speaker 1:I'm sure you learn every litter more and more about what you're doing.
Speaker 2:Yeah, what most people don't realize is that when you match a male and a female together, you're not going to get a 50 50 split of both parents in every puppy. They don't. They don't realize that we call it the 60 20 20. No, 40, 40, 20. Sorry, 40, 40, 20. 40 percent of the dogs are going to be just like one of the parents. The dogs are going to be just like one of the parents. 40% are going to be just like one of the other parents and really only 20% are going to be that perfect blend. And so people don't realize that and that's what's so important about picking out a puppy is you better like both those parents that that puppy came out of, because it's going to be maybe more like the mom or maybe more like the dad. It may not be that perfect combination, so if you don't like the dad but you like the mama and your dad and that puppy comes out, it might be like the daddy and you might not be happy with that.
Speaker 1:You got to be comfortable with both parents yeah, it's a, it's almost a crapshoot in a sense, but oh yeah, um. So so you still get as busy as you are, you still get. You said you did client hunts, so you actually get some of your y'all just go on a group hunt.
Speaker 2:Yeah, when I was at Triple Crown, one of the things that I dreamed up in trying to start a program there was exactly that that I've trained this dog. But it's not like you buying a car off of a car lot. You can't just hop in it and drive it and it drives exactly like I drove it when I parked it. It's an animal. It's gonna have good habits and bad habits, and you as the owner may not reinforce things like I did, so there's gonna be a lot of things that go different at home once that dog gets there, and in a hunting situation it's even more vital that it go correctly because you're dealing with a loaded firearm. And so what I dreamed up was, at the end of every dog's graduation from our gundog program, I would take the owner on a hunt. I had a buddy of mine that was running a hunting operation and we would book a duck hunter, a goose hunt, and I'd go with them, and that slowly kind of faded out over time, just because, honestly, I didn't have enough weekends to go hunting with every dog that I trained. I mean that sounds like a sad story, but, and so what we've done here recently is, in the past couple of years.
Speaker 2:Most of my clients are my friends. They're more than just owners. They're my friends and some of my best friends I got to know through being first I trained their dog and we got to be best friends. So being able to go hunting with them, and we just slowly decided Last year, I think, I took eight on a hunt and then this year me and two of my trainers are each taking eight owners with eight different dogs. We're going to, we are booking the whole lodge and we're going to hunt for three days and hunt everybody's dogs and we're going to help them and work with them and show them. You know the ins and the outs and hopefully, hopefully we have a good hunt and hopefully the dogs do well.
Speaker 1:I love that. That makes me want to just go get another pup. That's a great idea because you know I've trained my own dogs and I've picked, I've had dogs trained and you know you get your dog and it's trained. There's so many nuances that you're that the trainer's done and the body language you use and you know. And then you know I did Schutzen and all that stuff protection sports and you know I did Schutzen and all that stuff protection sports. And so sometimes you know my methods might be a little harsher, just vocally, because I'm just used to that, but that's priceless, I think.
Speaker 2:Well, and last year it went off really well and that's why we got the idea to do it this year on a bigger scale, and then we may learn that a bigger scale is maybe not, as you know, productive or or doesn't work out as well. We'll find out this year. But, um, you know, and and the best thing is, my other two trainers, my son and Kerrigan, are both going to see you know how to teach these dogs. It's going to help them in their training, because we're going to see how these dogs do in a real environment, and then we're going to take that back to the kennel and we're going to go okay, we don't do this good enough, we need to be better here. Or maybe, maybe, maybe the dogs aren't good at this, we need to get make them better at this. So I think it's going to help the clients and it's going to help us as trainers.
Speaker 1:Yeah, Cause I don't know of any scenario, Roddy, where the trainer gets out and hunts with a dog, you know, except like my pheasant deal in the South Cuddle, but normally no, that's. You would never see the dog really in the field, would you, Other than the training field?
Speaker 2:Yeah, and I'm, you know, saying that big hunters. But there's also a lot of guys that I know and and run with that they don't hunt, they don't hunt hardly at all, and I don't see how you could be a retriever trainer and not enjoy hunting with them, you know, yeah it's funny, I, there are people that way that just I've actually listened to podcasts for guys so if they don't hunt, they just compete, and and that's fine if that's what they like.
Speaker 1:But now you know, hunting's what got me here, and me too, yeah, and you too, I'm sure. And, by the way, I I had, I did have a ranch in santa ana near brownwood there, oh, really yeah, and I sold it and when I got the one I have in fort mccabot but yeah, I like that area do you still?
Speaker 2:have brownwood my dad lives in brownwood and and I was on a deer lease for 10 years in coleman oh, yeah, yeah. Right outside of San.
Speaker 1:Yeah, I just had a small place there, 140 acres I think, but it was nice. I actually wish I still had it, but anyway, I love that area, I do too. I do too, and you know there's a. It seems like there's a bird hunting preserve in Brownwood or Coleman 1?.
Speaker 2:There's a trainer there in Brownwood. I actually went to school with their daughter, glenda and Julie Mitchell. They're in Brownwood early actually.
Speaker 1:Okay, I know the name. I don't know who that is, but I've checked it out. So anyway, yes, I guess. So you're getting ready. This week you're going to be at the SRS at the Crown Now, again, I hate to keep making you do this for me, but explain the hierarchy, if you don't mind, of the SRS, if it wouldn't take too long, a hierarchy meaning how do we get to the Crown?
Speaker 2:Yes, yes, okay. So throughout the year, basically starting in January, we will have qualifier events and they're typically a three-day event Friday, saturday, sunday and you go and you're looking to. Basically, if you get in the top three, you automatically qualify for the crown. If you get fourth, fifth or sixth, you're getting points towards qualifying. So it goes one through six. So first place is six points and sixth place is one point. Six, five, four, three, two, one. There's a certain number of points to get your title. You have to have a win to get your title. So I've had dogs who had tons of points but never got that win and they never got that title. I've had other dogs who won. I've got two dogs that I won twice with and they got their title easily. And last year I had a dog that I trained for six years. And last year I had a dog that I trained for six years and I could never get him in the finals. And we had an event going on here locally, a Super Retriever Series qualifier event, and I told my son, dakota. I said, hey, why don't you run Kaizen and see how he does for you? This would be a good way to learn how to run the SRS and he had run it when he was a college student for fun, but that you know this was the big stage. He was a pro now and he was going to run against other pros uh, being only 25 at the time and, um, he ran Kaizen and I'll be dang if he didn't win. He beat me and he beat all the other pros with a dog that I had never made the finals with. So that just goes to show how certain dogs and certain trainers can match up and they just they blend well together. They can read each other. There's, you know, a lot, of, a lot of communication there that they did well, apparently. So, um, but but to answer your question, the qualifier events go on from January on through September. The last qualifier event we had, um, I ran right off. I actually stopped on the way to master national in Arkansas and ran it was called the last chance qualifier and ran that event, didn't get what I needed, went on to Master National and so you know you're.
Speaker 2:There's probably, I think, on the schedule around 30 to 35 events that you can, that you could possibly run. A lot of those are on the same weekend. So some of the run the East Coast and then some of us run the South part. Then there's a few up North and not very many in the West, primarily the South to Southeast part of the United States. We have usually two or three. In Texas, best Retrievers puts on a double header. We do an event in the first part of April in which we do the Lost Pines Retriever Club, which is our local club here, does an event and Best Retrievers does an event, and so people that come to run the event or people that want to watch can get the benefit of having two events back to back. You know, right there.
Speaker 1:So they are back to back, like weekend to weekend.
Speaker 2:There's one day between them. So this year I put I think, if I remember I put two days or one day between them. So this year I put two days or one day between them. I think one of them starts on Monday, runs Monday, tuesday, wednesday, and then we have off on Thursday and then the next one starts Friday, saturday, sunday, so they're literally six out of seven days. Yeah, so there's a lot of events in Louisiana, a couple in Arkansas, and those are the primary. I go up to Missouri, mississippi, I've gone to Georgia before, I've gone to, you know, up north and far east, but primarily I stick to the events around the Louisiana, arkansas, texas area and a few outside of that. But yeah, it's a lot of travel.
Speaker 1:That's a lot of travel. That's a lot of travel. Yeah, well, that's and this may you're going to think I'm ignorant, but the Master National is not a test, it's a field trial, right? It's winner takes all. Or is it a hunt test?
Speaker 2:No, the Master National is basically think of it like two master tests back to back. So it was originally designed to be six series series and a normal master test is three series. So you basically have two master tests. But it's a pass fail standard. So you're expected to perform at a certain level and if you do, you pass, and if you don't, you fail. There is no comparison between dogs, you fail. There is no comparison between dogs. And then basically the last few years, because of the pure size of the event, we're getting between a thousand to there. The next year it's coming to Texas. It's gonna be here right here, my neighborhood, right in my backyard. They're expecting upwards of 1500 master dogs coming here to run that event biggest. It's the biggest um performance dog event in the nation.
Speaker 1:Wow I've got to go this year. I wanted to just so I could see all that and learn, but I just, it just didn't work out. But I'm going to definitely go when it's going to be here in texas. Why not, you know? Sure, yeah, that's well. Um, so that that clears that up. I thought it was a test, but then, anyway, that makes a lot of sense now I understand.
Speaker 2:Yeah, if it's a test or it's a trial. So a test is pass-fail against a standard and a trial, if you ever hear the word trial, it's going to be a comparative event, winner-takes-all, kind of Like SRS trials, you know, or field trials or whatever. Okay, winner, take all.
Speaker 1:If you were this is just an off the wall question but if you were a guy looking for, if you wanted to find a pup, that would just be a rock star, which would you think is a more important title a SRS title or a field trial or a field champion?
Speaker 2:Oh, good question. So because I thought you were going to go the different hunt test title routes. Um, you know, because a lot of guys argue that the grand title is a lot better than the master hunter title or whatever. Um, geez, I, I honestly have to say the SRS title would be a more so. The SRS is like your triathlons or your Ironmans or your multi-sport type events where an athlete has to be able to do all these different things. And your field trial is more like. And don't get me wrong, these dogs are super talented, super well trained, unbelievable at what they do, but they do one thing they do field trial setups. An SRS dog has to be good at a lot of different kinds. They've got to be good at field trials, but they've also got to be good at hunt savvy and hunt test. So that's why I think the Ironman is a lot better in that way.
Speaker 1:I see that makes a lot of sense and I guess, now that I'm understanding you, you've really educated me on this. Thank you so much. But in the SRS they also have to have the ability to adapt to situations they may not even be prepared for possibly Right right.
Speaker 2:In a test situation sure we could be running in a dog hut, we could be on a dog stand, a tree stand. There's been a flooded timber hunt savvy tests in north carolina before um, and that's funny because danny farmer actually won that one. I'll never forget that one. He ran one SRS and he won. So every field trial guy out there has got the impression that any field trial dog can win an SRS. So unfortunately that didn't work out in our favor too well.
Speaker 2:We were kind of hoping to teach Danny a thing or two, but he taught us a thing or two. But yeah, so you could. I mean, there's just so many things. There's another buddy of mine from Texas and he's going to be running next week and he's been sending me his setups and he's been, you know, showing me maps of where the marks have been landing and all the different things he's trying to do. And I mean it's just crazy when I look at it because he's just trying to plan for everything and that's what you've got to do. I mean you got to have a dog that's good at everything and I'm doing a little different this year.
Speaker 2:I have, you know, I've always trained for all of I call them tricks. You know all of the different. You know ways in which you could get a dog. I'm going to focus on the mechanics this year. I'm just focusing on good marking skills, good blind running skills, good line manners and not try to overwhelm the dog with too many scenarios prior to the event. And maybe that'll work out in my favor this year, because I feel like in years past I've tried to just flood them with so many possible scenarios that it just overwhelmed them and hurt their confidence. So I'm hoping this year that this will pay off. We'll see.
Speaker 1:You know, I can see that you're I. I would think that that would work too, what you're talking about. Just going back to the mechanics, but what do I know? You're the one guy that's done this forever, but man you know this week.
Speaker 1:Yeah, that's right, I'll be curious I'll be texting you, Rhodey of all the dog stuff I've been exposed to over my lifetime and people just don't realize I don't think there's any more complicated type of training of an animal than there is the retriever. To do some of these, the Super Retriever Series, the field trials and this stuff. I mean it's a lot of time. I don't know any other dog sport or any other dog sport or anything that you know, protection sport, anything that I know of that has even close to that level of training, but it's amazing.
Speaker 2:It's a funny story because when I first, I've been running the super retriever series since 04. So I've got over 20 years of you know, 20, 25 plus years, and I remember years ago people ask me what to do, you know, and I'd say, well, I run the SRS and they're like, oh, you do that thing where they jump real high or jump really far out in the water, and I'm like, no, no, that's to me, you know, and nobody that's not in the game understands this. But that's kind of an insult to us because we spend years developing. I mean, a good SRS dog is probably six or seven years old and he's been trained five, six, seven days a week his whole life. And these big air dogs that jump out in the water, I mean that's a very small skill and, don't get me wrong, they're very good at jumping. But the level of training that's involved to teach that, compared to what we have to do, is minute.
Speaker 1:Yeah, that's I, just the more I've gotten involved in it and learning, it's really something. But yeah, I mean, you know I'd like to, but it's a goal of mine. I'd like to title a dog and you know I'd like to, but it's a goal of mine, I'd like to title a dog and, you know, maybe even SRS one day. Who?
Speaker 2:knows.
Speaker 1:But that's a big risk.
Speaker 2:The amateur division in the last two years, three years, has become incredibly difficult. There was a time I was on the SRS board for 10-plus years and one of our missions was to try and encourage more amateurs to run the event because we were having a shortage of AMs. A lot of pros were running it but not many amateurs. And we looked at it and we thought, well, maybe it's because the amateurs are coming out and they're getting their teeth kicked in by you know somebody, by one certain amateur. That's really good. So we started limiting the number of amateur dogs that one person could run and I don't know if that helped.
Speaker 2:I don't know what's changed, but in the last three years there's a lot of amateurs that, when it's all said and done, after four series because, see, during the event the AMs and the pros run the same test, but when they get their score they tabulate the AM scores on one side and the pro scores on another side. We're not competing against each other. The AMs are competing against the other AMs and the pros are competing against the other pros. We all run the same test. So there's been many weekends where, when it was all said and done, that the overall amateur winner had a better score than the overall professional and that used to never happen, but I can guarantee it probably happened three or four times this year.
Speaker 2:That's how good the amateurs have become, and they're not only better handlers but they're better trainers. I mean, you know an amateur to be an amateur. You just don't receive financial compensation for training. So you could be a retired well-off individual that pays other trainers to train your dogs and you just go pick them up and run them and you're a good handler. But you may not be necessarily a trainer. So that's what some of these AMs are, but the AMs there's three or four really good AMs and they do all their training themselves. So it can be done and it's done all the time. So kudos to the amateurs out there.
Speaker 1:You know, I've heard that the competition had really gotten just stronger and stronger in the SRS on both sides. Maybe that was Shannon told me that, but someone told me that recently.
Speaker 2:Yeah, I think what actually helped was the SRS was struggling a little bit to gain popularity and gain a hold, probably seven or eight years ago, and Shannon did a lot of work to get the event recognized by the United Kennel Club and so now it's an actual title on your UKC pedigree and that made a huge difference because now that it's recognized by a national organization the title carries so much more weight.
Speaker 2:And so now I mean we used to be, I mean I wouldn't say we're nobody. We were on TV, you know, back in the day, but we weren't as respected as, say, a Danny Farmer or a Mike Lardy or one of those. But now some of these SRS trainers, some of the big ones, you know, they're well known now because the SRS is respected, and these dogs that are doing well at the SRS, they're Grand Hunting Retriever Champions, they're Master National Hall of Fame dogs and, heck, a couple of them are field champions. So the SRS is just one more of those events now that's respected and held in high regard, which I love it because I've been with it since basically the onset.
Speaker 1:Yeah, I didn't realize that. I remember her telling me about it being UKC, you know, honored now, but I didn't realize that how the popular had really grown. But it's popular to me and I've only been aware of it probably a year just because it just wasn't something that I you know, followed that I, you know, followed, yeah, and then what?
Speaker 2:what's really become? I think helpful in that regard is that our uh crown championship is on. Well, it was live streamed and now I believe it's YouTube. Uh, you can watch it live. So, starting on Tuesday morning, anybody can can listen in and watch on TV. Ever on your computer. Every dog that runs, I mean the entire event is you can watch every dog run. So if you've got time at your office, you can stick it on one of your screens and be watching all day long while you're working, and that's made it popular.
Speaker 1:Yeah, I'm glad you remind me of that. Yeah, I'm glad you remind me of that.
Speaker 2:Yeah, people can now expose a whole new. What's the word? It's open doors for people who never really understood, or maybe they couldn't make it on a weekend to go watch a field trial or a hunt test or something, but they can, with one click, watch a couple of dogs run an event and all of a sudden, someday I want to do that. That's how I got started I the super retriever series. I happened to flip flip the tv on on a saturday and I watched an event in missoula, montana, and uh and and I was like that is cool and I want to do that. And here I am today you know it.
Speaker 1:Really it's interesting. All the people I've talked to doing this, I've heard more than one person say what you said, that they've either watched a hunt test but mostly it was people saw at random the SRS series and thought, man, I'd just give anything if I could make a dog do that. Even people that probably never hunted with a dog probably never owned a lab.
Speaker 2:Yeah, it's kind of like go ahead.
Speaker 1:No, no, well, before I forget, have you always asked people this? But is labs been the only breed you've ever really trained, hunted?
Speaker 2:uh, I. So my, my hunting passion is is waterfowl, you know, duck and goose, um'm. I'm not a huge upland hunter. I don't mind going pheasant hunting and quail hunting, but it's never been something that really appealed to me. Um, in the past, I'd say the last three years, uh, I have gotten into back country Western hunting up in the mountains and that has been, uh, extremely time consuming and has overwhelmed me. It's my passion, I eat it up. I'm going to Idaho as soon as I get back from the Crown Championship to go mule deer hunting. But so I think and this is just a hypothesis here, I think because I've been waterfowl hunting for so many years 25 years plus that I needed something new and challenging, and that's been the Western mountain hunting.
Speaker 2:But notice that, to talk about the breeds, though, I just recently got an English Cocker Spaniel and her name is Roomba, and I am ecstatic over her. I have been every morning. I take her out and we flush a couple of pheasants, you know, and we just finished her obedience and she's delivering birds to hand now, and so we're going to actually start steadying her up and teaching her the field side of things, and it's going to be exciting to have a dog. I mean she loves water too. I mean there's not many spaniels that I've ever trained that loves water like she does. She jumps out in there and goes after it. So we may be doing some duck hunting too. I know we're going to be doing some dove hunting. Heck, if she can duck hunt, we're going to go duck hunting.
Speaker 1:Just doing this podcast, rhodey, I bet I've talked to at least three people that have also picked up a cocker and started hunting them, and everybody I've never talked to one person said it was the worst thing I've ever done. They all talk about they love, the drive, the desire, and they just have no stop in them. It's all hunt, you know. So I'm excited. I've actually got one coming too. Oh, cool English bread, but yeah, I'm excited. I've actually got one coming too. Oh, cool English bred, but yeah, I'm excited. I'm going to take it and do like I did my other dogs and go, let it stay with my pheasant guy up there. I don't know if he'll let me bring a cocker he's a lab guy but I'm going to try next year.
Speaker 2:I thought about actually putting her with a professional, a professional upland trainer, and my wife and I went back and forth about it and I just realized I enjoy it so much that I want to try it. I want to be a part of it.
Speaker 1:Yeah, you know, what I learned now is I'm not trying to tell you how to train a dog by any means, but what I've learned just with my labs up there. And I think the Cockers work the same way. When you're in we're in the pheasant country and we're hunting wild birds, they'll kind of quarter naturally and they'll stay close to you. So once they flush and see it come up and you know it's almost Rody, it's almost like you just turn them loose and they about train themselves. I mean, you know if you've got obedience on them that's what I'm seeing, yeah.
Speaker 2:With the labs. I think with a lab you know the first, the basic program. You're taking a lot of their natural born abilities and just kind of shaping them into a productive task. And then when you get into the more advanced stuff I mean a dog doesn't know a hand signal from a whistle set to any of that stuff, so it's just a raw piece of clay that you mold. But with these English Cockers, I mean you turn them loose in the field and it's like this dog's been like trained or something, because it almost seems like it knows what it's doing.
Speaker 1:Yeah, and you know, I remember asking scott knee, neighbor. I was like scott, do you train those dogs to quarter? He says never, never have. He said they just do it. You know. So I think you're, you're going to teach all the other basics anyway, I've got this feeling you put that dog in the field and get a quarter and flush for you and retrieve, because you've taught to retrieve and anyway. No, it's interesting, it's interesting. I want to hear more about you, cocker, when you get it, when you get to hunt with it. But I tell you, if you're not a big upland guy, maybe you should go with me next year up there. I'm telling you I've it's, it's great Wild birds. We limit out every day. We hunt corn, sorghum.
Speaker 2:You know grass we hunt corn, sorghum, you know grass, it's well there's. There's nothing more exciting than uh, than seeing a dog, you know. Go on point. I mean that's my wife and I were uh up in kansas a couple of weeks ago. Uh, her, her family's from up there, and I was doing a deer hunt and we were visiting her family and we took a little day trip over to a place called standing stone kennels. You you may know who they are yeah German Shorthair.
Speaker 1:That's an excellent kennel.
Speaker 2:Yeah, we went over there and toured their facility and got to meet them and we probably spent a couple of hours. You know I've been doing a long time and they've been doing it less than I have, but there's still an opportunity to learn from somebody and so we use that as a learning opportunity. We saw their whelping program and saw their, their kennels, and we saw some dogs work in the field and I mean, to me it was. I don't know if you've ever heard I'm going to go on a little tangent here but you ever heard of the three stages of learning? Tell me, I think I know what you're going to tell me, but please say it though for the listeners and me.
Speaker 2:You know, and I was getting my degree in wildlife and fisheries and then I got my advanced degree in agriculture education and one of the things we learned is that, because I thought I was going to work for Tex Parks and Wildlife, that's what I really thought I was going to do, and they were talking about how differently young people learn and compared to older people. But one of the things is people as they learn through life, they start out learning something Like I did say that, the retriever training. I couldn't get enough of it. I read every book, I watched every video. I just sucked. I was a sponge. I sucked up as much information as I could, and then that's the first stage, so you just never can get enough.
Speaker 2:You learn, you learn, you want to learn more. Then you enter the second stage, where the second stage is the one you don't want to get stuck in. The second stage is where you feel like you know everything, you have done everything, you have learned everything. Nobody's going to teach you anything you don't already know. And that's a dangerous stage to get stuck in and I always encourage my trainers to try to go to the next stage and that means, yeah, you may know a lot, but there's always somebody out there that knows something that you don't, and you can always learn from somebody else. So always strive to be in stage three and always try to take somebody, and even if it's a client that has never had a dog trained before, he might say something one day and a light bulb goes on your head and you're like that's brilliant. I never thought of that and he may not know anything about it, but he helped open a door that, if you'd been stuck in stage two, you would have never got a chance to open.
Speaker 1:I'm not just saying this, but I think I stay in stage three. I always love to hear what someone says. That's why I love doing what I do. I learned so much on this podcast from guys like you. But no, and didn't you think, don't they have some of the sharpest dogs at that kennel? They have some beautiful German shorthairs that I've seen. I've followed them for probably two years, but good looking dogs.
Speaker 2:Yeah, and their facility is top notch. I mean I saw a lot of improvements that I could make here that they've done that I really liked. So, yeah, it was a bonus.
Speaker 1:He's got some nice cockers. He gets off. He imports all his stuff and I've not been to his facilities but I've got friends that have and I've heard that's one of the cleanest. He's a vet no, he's a dentist. I remember that he's a dentist, I think. But anyway, super facility, it's like a model facility for a dog kennel. I've never been there but man, he's got some good-looking hunting dogs.
Speaker 2:You ought to talk to. So Roomba. Her dad was Mojo, who was last year's national cocker winner, field trial winner. He won the national and he's owned by a guy named Chris George out of San Marcos. Chris used to be a client of ours in the retriever world. We trained his retrievers before he went into the English cocker world. That's how I came to get Roomba. He's out of his bloodline. Well, he has his dog trained by and I'm going to mess up her first name, but it's with Bad Habit Gun Dogs up in Decatur and I would encourage you to look her up. She won the national last year at a very young age and that's who my dog, Roomba, is out of. The dog that she trained that won the national last year.
Speaker 1:Well, you know, I thought you were going to say Jaylee Swartz, who owns Green Gable Gun Dogs in Wisconsin, and she won the year before last national field with her. Oh wow, but they're all real close and this one sounds familiar too. But uh, that's interesting. No, I, I'm excited about it, you know just, I love retrievers. I've got more than I want to tell on this podcast but I've got.
Speaker 1:I feed a lot of dogs and it's, it's. It takes a lot of my time, but uh, yeah, it might be that might be nice to try something like that. But anyway, rody gosh, I know you're getting ready for your crown. You're a hunter, it's hunting season. I think I'm going to start hitchhiking with you next time you go on these big game hunts, because I do that stuff too. Be careful what you say and I've got a high fence hunting ranch in Fort McCabot. You probably do that stuff more, but it's more work than it's worth. But anyway, I've wanted to talk to you in person for so long and I'm going to come out and let you make me a better trainer. That's my goal. I'm going to try to figure out a time when everything settles down on your end and on my end and I'm going to come and be a sponge at your place for a little while.
Speaker 2:Yeah, well, I love, I love teaching people and and you're a very enthusiastic learner I can tell you know by listening to you and talking to you. So I would love to help you.
Speaker 1:All right, well, hey, thank you so much. Now I know you don't need the advertisement, but really tell people how they can find you.
Speaker 2:Well, my, my wife runs our social media stuff so she can probably tell you the exact addresses, but our website's bestretrieverscom, and you can also find us on Facebook and Instagram. She has kind of taken over the social media thing in the last, I'd say, six months and she's enjoying it and she puts out a lot of cool stuff. I think it's cool and people check it out and tell me what you think you got great pictures on there.
Speaker 1:I see and check everything y'all do I have since the first time we ever talked and I'm a fan, all right. Well, hey, if I don't stop, I know you and I could rattle all night long. And anyway, roddy, it was a pleasure having you. Thank you so much for taking time, and I know that our listeners appreciate hearing from a pro like you, and this won't be our last, I hope.
Speaker 2:My pleasure. I look forward to doing it again.
Speaker 1:All right, thank you.