Gundog Nation
A show to bring together gundog enthusiasts, trainers, and handlers with discussion focused on all breeds and styles of gundogs.
Gundog Nation
Wade Skeen - Skeen Gundogs & Outfitters
#36 Wade Skeen takes us deep into the changing landscape of American waterfowl hunting, revealing how agricultural practices have dramatically shifted migration patterns away from traditional southern flyways. The owner of Skeen Gundogs and Outfitters in south central Kansas explains why the Midwest has become a duck hunting paradise: drought-resistant seed varieties pushing corn production northward, no-till farming leaving billions of bushels of waste grain in fields, and significantly less hunting pressure than traditional destinations like Arkansas and Louisiana.
Drawing from his journey from Mississippi through military service to establishing his Kansas outfitting business, Wade shares how his dog training philosophy evolved from working with high-drive American Labs to the more methodical British retrievers. His personal transformation as a trainer culminates in wisdom that resonates for handlers at any level: "Embrace the process. Don't worry about outcomes. Judge each day individually, and when the process is complete, your dog will exceed expectations."
The conversation explores the unique aspects of Kansas hunting seasons, with Wade focusing his guiding efforts on December and January when waterfowl patterns are most reliable. Unlike many outfitters, he encourages clients to bring their own retrievers, understanding the special bond between hunters and their dogs while ensuring safety and hunt quality remain priorities. Whether targeting mallards on the river or setting up for massive feeds of lesser Canada geese in dry fields, his approach emphasizes versatility and adaptation to conditions.
Ready to experience the Kansas waterfowl advantage? Wade still has limited dates available for the upcoming season. Listen now to understand why serious duck hunters are looking westward and how embracing the training process will transform your gundog experience.
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Hello and welcome to Gundog Nation. This is Kenneth Witt, coming to you from Texas, and I want you to know that Gundog Nation is much more than a podcast. It's a movement to unite those who love to watch a well-trained dog do what it was bred to do. We are also here to encourage youth to get involved in the sport of gundogs, whether it's hunting, sport or competition. I want to build a community of people united to preserve our heritage of gundogs, whether it's hunting, sport or competition. I want to build a community of people united to preserve our heritage of gundog ownership and to be better gundog owners. Stay tuned to each episode to learn more about training, dog health, wellness and nutrition from expert trainers, breeders and veterinarians. Be sure to go on our website, wwwgundognationnet, and join our email list. You'll receive newsletters from trainers and vets and breeders. That will also help you being a better gundog owner. And be sure to listen to some of our supporters Mo Pitney, who is a very good country musician and bluegrass musician. He has a bluegrass project called Pitney Myers and he's getting ready to come out with a new album on Curb Records, so stay tuned. Also, the music provided on our show is from Sean Brock, originally from Harlan, Kentucky, just across the mountain from me. He did all the music that you hear on our introduction and our outro for the show. Played all the instruments except for Scott Vest on the banjo and Jerry Douglas on the dobro. Check them out. Thank you for listening.
Speaker 1:Hello, this is Kenneth Witt with Gun Dog Nation. I'd like to encourage all you listeners and viewers on our youtube channel to check out patreoncom forward slash gundog nation. For ten dollars a month you can become a member of our community and we'll have access to lots of stuff. Mainly, we will do a monthly forum, an open forum, where you can ask me anything gundog related and we'll learn from each other in community should be a lot of fun each month. We will do that that, so check it out Patreoncom forward slash gundog nation. All right, Welcome back to gundog nation. This is Kenneth Witt talking to you today from Midland Texas. I've been trying to track this guy down. He's a busy man. I've been dying to go hunting at his outfitter there in Kansas, but it's a pleasure of mine to have Mr Wade Skeen Wade tell all these listeners that don't know you who you are and what you do.
Speaker 2:Yeah, my name is Wade Skeen. I own Skeen Gun Dogs and Outfitters up in south central Kansas and we do a lot of waterfowl hunting, some deer hunting, some turkey hunting upland birds when we got them around um and then got a whole pile of our own dogs now we used to, we used to train dogs for for clients and kind of scaled back on that the last couple years to focus on the hunting side of things a little more. But, um, yeah, that that pretty much keeps us busy throughout the year.
Speaker 1:If it's not one of the seasons we're guiding for, we're probably out coyote hunting for fun. Yeah, I'm kind of getting hooked into that too. I have to get you to come down and take some off my ranch. Everybody comes into this industry or this lifestyle. A lot of us come from different walks of life. What's your story? How'd you get into this?
Speaker 2:uh, I grew up in mississippi, um, until I was 17 and I did a lot of hunting growing up with my dad and my brother uh, mostly bow hunting, deer, some some turkey hunting, a little bit of waterfowl hunting. I had one really close friend that waterfowl hunted a lot and had a had an uncle that would take me out from time to time. My dad uh didn't waterfowl hunt. He had had one of those, one of those instances where he had got a wader full waders full of water when he was younger and swore he'd never do it again and and uh, true to his, his nature, he he stuck to his word. So he didn't do any waterfowl hunting when I was growing up. But I really enjoyed it. But growing up in Mississippi it was a little. It wasn't as accessible as it is in a lot of places, either having to use a well-equipped duck boat or, being a bigger water, you know, waterfowl lease or something like that. It just wasn't really accessible.
Speaker 2:Then I joined the Air Force when I was 17 and got stationed in Louisiana for eight years and was really fortunate there, had a lot of hunting on base and did some waterfowl hunting there. Fortunate, there had a lot of hunting on base and did some waterfowl hunting there and then met my wife there and then we decided, right about the time she got pregnant with our first baby, that she was ready to go see some different scenery because she was from Louisiana, so put in for orders and got stationed in Hawaii for five years and had a little hunting hiatus there for a while. Um, hunting there actually is hunting in hawaii. I just didn't, didn't really realize it when I was getting ready to move there and put all my hunting stuff in storage before we went out there. But it just so happened that the unit that I worked for was a half hawaii air national guard, so they were all local guys and several of them hunted and invited me hunting and I've had a couple of them come out here and hunt with me since I've been in Kansas. So that's considered an overseas assignment in the Air Force, so you could only be there for a set amount of time. So we were there for almost five years before we had the PCS and when we were getting ready to PCS it was what's called an out-of-cycle assignment. So I was able to kind of look at the personnel numbers for, like, my career field, my rank and kind of see what options I had, and I put in for Scott Air Force Base in Illinois and Offutt Air Force Base in Nebraska and then McConnell Air Force Base here in Kansas. But looking at the looking at the personnel listing, I had a pretty good idea. We were going to come here. I had never been to Kansas at that time, lydia had never been to Kansas. We I had a lot of friends stationed in Hawaii with me that had come from Kansas and I knew that.
Speaker 2:You know, the deer hunt was really good here and really the waterfowl hunt was kind of kind of a secret at that point. That was back in 2011, 12 timeframe, and some people knew about it, but it wasn't. It wasn't nearly as as uh, well known as it is now obviously. So, um, got orders here, got here in june of 2012, uh, met a, met a really good friend here that did a lot of deer hunting, a lot of waterfowl hunting. He was a area chairman for the local ducks unlimited chapter and stuff like that and he kind and he kind of took me in and showed me the ropes as far as the local area around here and we deer hunted, oh, september, october, you know, into November and as November pushed on, he's like you know. That's when he asked me about duck hunting and at that time I didn't even I don't think I had any of my duck hunting gear.
Speaker 2:Matter of fact, I don't even think I had a shotgun at that point, because I had my shotgun.
Speaker 2:I think I had sold mine when I moved to Hawaii. I hadn't bought a new one yet and I went home to Mississippi sometime and actually borrowed my little brother's 870 and brought it back out here with me when I found out I could dunk on out here and he took me out. My buddy, david, took me out a couple times and kind of introduced me to a whole different spectrum of waterfowl hunt because out here on public land you could throw a couple dozen or a dozen and a half decoys on your back and take a blind bag and a stool and a shotgun and just literally walk half a mile out into the marsh and you know you and your buddy could shoot a couple limits of mallards and I had never experienced anything like that with that type of accessibility and it wasn't guaranteed. You know you needed the weather and needed the migration to help and stuff like that. But just being able to repeatedly go out and just walk in on public ground and have those quality hunts was just really something I wasn't accustomed to. Oh man.
Speaker 1:So from that time period of being in Kansas, when did you start getting into dogs?
Speaker 2:So I had labs growing up and I really, really enjoyed it. It was always kind of a dream to have a really good waterfowl retriever and I had a couple after I joined the Air Force but with deployments and moving and stuff like that, I'd never had the time to really put into training one from start to finish. And that same guy I was telling you about, david, he had a really really good black lab named Jolly. That was, I think, probably five years old at that point and after hunting, you know, with his dog, that really solidified and just seeing how accessible the hunting was here, I knew I was going to waterfowl hunt quite a bit more at that point than what I expected to. You know, he I think his dog he had puppies off of his dog two years after we moved here, I think something like that, and we ended up getting a puppy from him and that kind of started the process and we started training that would have been 2014 timeframe, 2014 time frame and really took that first dog to a very high level of proficiency. I never actually ran him in tests but I did go out with some of the retriever, the HRC and the AKC clubs on training days when he was two, three, four years old, when we were training, you know, finished gundog work and stuff like that and had the opportunity to run him with other HRCH and master hunter dogs and stuff like that and he was very capable to do everything that he needed to do in that arena.
Speaker 2:Unfortunately I he was a very high, strong, um, american line dog um, and while his desire to retrieve was, you know about unparalleled, his steadiness, steadiness and ability to sit and relax for long periods of time, things like that really struggled with him and a lot of that was my fault early on as well, for just not understanding the things I needed to do as a trainer and a handler to manage those traits that were genetically passed down to him. But I didn't. I made those traits worse instead of making them better, and a lot of that was just from being excited and rushing the process and and stuff like that. Had I been more patient and knew what I know now, I likely could have had a better outcome in the long run in that scenario. But, as with everybody, you know, when you have that first dog you're excited and you want to get them out there and put all that work and training to the test and, you know, kind of probably made his genetic traits worse by mishandling on my part.
Speaker 1:Been right there with you. It's easy to do when you start out. I'm still learning. I learn every day. So, wade, when did you after seeing that and maybe seeing some of these other dogs that may have had steadiness when did you start saying hey, or who helped you turn that around? Or did you just do things differently on your own?
Speaker 2:it was a combination, honestly, when, when um cornerstone came out, um, I was really interested in the, in the process that they utilized to train their dogs. Um, I had I had read books and used some some YouTube videos and things like that in the past that were probably a little more heavy-handed than how, I would say, I train dogs nowadays. And when Cornerstone came out, I had already hunted with some of the guys that were customers and involved in that and stuff like that and really had a few different avenues of folks that I was talking to about dog training on a regular basis through Facebook. And so, as time went on and saw how that process worked, I ended up at about the same time getting a british dog and knew I wanted to, you know, train differently, especially with the british british dog.
Speaker 2:Um, and that really changed my understanding of dog training, because british dogs, you know, typically are going to mature a little bit slower and are going to be a little bit more docile through the training process. And of course there's always exceptions to every rule, but just as a general rule, you know, their adaptability to especially the is going to be a lot different than a really high-end field trial line American dog stuff like that. So as I started training more British dogs and being around more British dogs, not only did that type of training work better for them, it also worked better for all dogs that I was working with myself, so kind of changing up the way that we looked at dog training, or I looked at dog training, uh, as a whole.
Speaker 1:Hello, this is Kenneth Witt with Gun Dog Nation. Many people quickly become frustrated and confused when training the retriever. Cornerstone Gun Dog Academy's online courses eliminate all the guesswork by giving you a proven training system that will help you train a dog that anyone would be proud to have in their blind. Learn where to start, what to do next and what to do when problems arise. Visit cornerstonegundogacademycom to learn how you can train your retriever.
Speaker 1:I have used this method myself. I have been through it a couple times with different dogs. I have used this method myself. I have been through it a couple times with different dogs. I refer back to it lots of times when I'm trying to get dogs freshened back up for hunt test season. I highly recommend them. I have actually been a subscribed member of Cornerstone Gun Dog Academy since 2016, and I would suggest anyone use it. I highly recommend it. They have an app that you can get to on your phone. You can do it from your phone, your laptop. You can't get any more convenient than that. I've used it. It's proven and tried and I know literally hundreds of people that have done the same thing that I've talked to. Visit cornerstonegundogacademycom and learn how to train your own retriever, you know, just to chime in on that Wade, what I found easy about Cornerstone for me is I've got to have organization.
Speaker 1:Because I'm kind of haphazard, you know, I might train one thing one day, next day train something completely different. And what it helped me and maybe it's my ADHD is that it's a step by step and you don't go on the next step to kind of master that step. And that's what helped me more than anything. And there's lots of good material out there and I've read everything I can get my hands on. But that's why I was cornerstone was so easy for me to follow.
Speaker 2:It simplifies it especially, especially with the 52 plus program. It simplifies it especially with the 52 Plus program, the original gundog program. It was still organized but it was not broken down daily like 52 Plus is. Once they put that out, it was really the most comprehensive. It was really the most comprehensive no fault way to to train a retriever. That's really ever, ever been done up to that point I agree.
Speaker 1:I, you know I still. I say this all the time, I still refer to it all the time I might use it. You know, I'm training some younger dogs right now, just myself. And uh, wait, at some point in your outdoor career.
Speaker 2:I guess I would classify as that People paid me to train their dog. So yes, even though I don't know the level that some people do it versus what I did, I did. It's hard to say that when you look at guys that are training dogs and running SRS and grands and Master Nationals and stuff like that, where most of the stuff that we were doing was much more focused on hunting dogs and family companion type deal, although we did go run HRC tests with our dogs and other dogs that we trained. Although we did go run HRC tests with our dogs and other dogs that we trained. But yeah, we did. Oh, I don't know two years, three years of that.
Speaker 1:So, yeah, we did, and, wade, did you. I was looking at your website, which is I like your website, by the way, thank you. But you know, I know that you offer kinds of different types of hunting. We're gonna get into that, but what really got my attention is I I've kind of really gotten into upland hunting and I see that you have that training and you offer upland hunts. Could you talk about that?
Speaker 2:yeah, I mean. So in our area here specifically, uh, we do. We do have pheasants, wild pheasants, but the numbers on those fluctuate so much that you can't reliably count on them year after year. But what we have gotten over the past probably five, six years, our quail population has kept growing every year to the point where you can go out and have some pretty high quality quail hunts, and I personally just use my retrievers for it. And I've kind of found out that, especially with the British dogs, they're slow and methodical a lot of times and they like to hunt close and they really make very good upland dogs because they do rely so much on their nose that it's a really natural fit for them, honestly, and our British labs have done well for upland hunting for us.
Speaker 1:You know, wade, I didn't really understand that, which I have a plan to hunt with mine too. I just well, I've only done that for one season so far. But when I went over there and watched the field trial, now I kind of get it as to why they're such good upland hunters, because they're not really big waterfowl hunters over there At least that I saw, it was all upland in their trials.
Speaker 2:Yeah, yeah, it's a natural crossover from the way that they run most of their tests, where, especially, they know they're focused on the steadiness and and um things like that, which is an awesome, an awesome part of their trials as well, you know, as far as being quiet, being steady and and all those things. But they do so much um hunting for game and cover that using their nose and things like that on dry ground versus the emphasis that we put on water hunting here. So the crossover to upland hunting for them here is really natural for them.
Speaker 1:it seems for most of them that I've been around when you quail hunt through labs, are they quartering and flushing? Yeah them, it seems for most of them that I've been around. Wait, when you quail hunt through labs, are they quartering and flushing?
Speaker 2:yeah, yeah, but and you, you know obviously they're not pointing, they're quartering and flushing. But once you've hunted with them, you know just a little bit. And got on birds, it's very, very easy to tell um when they're on a on a fresh bird. And got on birds, it's very, very easy to tell um when they're on a on a fresh bird and on a fresh trail. As long as you can, you know, as long as you can visibly see them where they are. Um, so, yeah, it works out too, because we hunt a lot of um cedar patches and and cattail marshes and and things, things like that. And if I had a pointer that was down in those cattails locked up on a bird those things are head high I wouldn't be able to even see it. Now, if you're running a gps setup, you know where it. It notifies you when they stop or whatever. Yes, you still certainly make it work, um, but but I like having those flushers getting in there and busting through that. You know that thicker cover.
Speaker 1:That makes sense. I already thought about that. What have you trained? Any pointers or setters?
Speaker 2:Yeah, I have more so on the obedient side of things. The obedient side of things, and one thing I've had several people do is bring me their pointers for help getting the pointers to retrieve, because that was something that I worked with so much more frequently on the retrieving side. But I've had a couple of guys that have helped me out over the years that they were more pointer experienced. I would say that did more of the one-on-one work with them when they got into their more advanced training. But you know, 75% of your basic gundog training crosses over whether you're talking about a pointer or a retriever anyway, what's in the other breed that you've do you?
Speaker 1:are you training now or is it your?
Speaker 2:your outfitting business got you full-time pretty much other than other than our, our own dogs okay, if you now you have to educate me a little bit.
Speaker 1:Wade, when does your tell me the seasons that you offer hunts up there, Like when does it start for? Like this year? Are you booked up for this year?
Speaker 2:No, we, we still have some, some availability for this season. We added a second lodge in last year and kind of later in the year and so we still. We basically doubled up our our occupancy availability for lodging hunts, whereas we were doing before we were, we had some non-lodging hunts available in there. But now that we've, now that we've doubled up on our lodging numbers, we still have a few available dates left in there. But our season starts really early here, especially if you're talking about just Kansas in general.
Speaker 2:If you go the northern half of the state in Kansas it doesn't break down geographically exactly like that. It's kind of catty-cornered the way it's drawn out. But the early zone in Kansas opens up like the first Saturday of October. If you're around cheyenne bottoms, a lot of most listeners are going to be familiar with that area that that area opens up early october. Um, realistically it's probably too early. Um, a lot of you know a lot of teal around at that point in time and and if you get some weather you might see some gadwall or pintail or shovelers or some of your smaller calendar migrators will push in, but typically you're not going to see any really significant numbers that early. Then, if you come down to this part of the state where we are, we're in a low plains late zone. We actually open the Saturday before Halloween. So I think this year it's October 25th or something like that, which is really pretty early for us, and then we'll run from then until basically New Year's, and then we have a split in this zone from New Year's until about January 18th, 19th, 20th timeframe, depending on where the weekend falls. But now if you go 10 miles east of us, you have the third zone, which is the southeast zone is what they call it here, and it opens a weekend later than our zone here runs all the way through until January 5th or 6th, closes down for five days on a monday through friday, and then opens back up and runs through the rest of january. So, utilizing all of our splits in our zones, we can, we can hunt, we can duck hunt that entire time, um, by not having to, without having to drive too far anyway. So, um that.
Speaker 2:But as far as our guiding goes, we only guide december and january. Uh, we used to. We used to guide waterfowl in november more. Uh, it's just too inconsistent to count on weather-wise. Uh, you know, we'll get, we'll get some years where we'll have significant waterfowl numbers. Um, in november we, you know, get a good cold front around that Veterans Day timeframe and we'll have some really good hunts. But it's not consistent enough to count on it to, you know, to have guys traveling here from across the country or something like that. So we just pushed it all back to basically starting after Thanksgiving and then just running through January, because we know we can usually count on the weather and the migration to be significant enough by that point. With a combination of specks and lesser canadas, and then our ducks as well, we feel like we can confidently provide quality hunts from that time on. Provide quality hunts.
Speaker 1:from that time on, do you feel like that Kansas is becoming the new hotbed for duck hunting, more so than Arkansas is?
Speaker 2:that. Still, I think Kansas, oklahoma, you know Oklahoma gets a lot of attention now, and for good reason. I mean fantastic waterfowl in oklahoma, um, maybe parks in nebraska, but but definitely kansas and and I think oklahoma a little bit more so than kansas, um. But I think that's more proximity thing because you you talk about the guys in arkansas West, tennessee, north Mississippi, north Louisiana, places like that. They can get to Oklahoma pretty quick. It's just a proximity thing. I do see a lot of people pushing from Arkansas West. Obviously there's several groups that hunt with us that have had leases or own properties in Arkansas or, you know, northwest Mississippi or something like that, and they come out here now instead of staying in those leases there and stuff like that. They still have good hunts down there. They just aren't as regular as they used to be and you know they would rather come up here and have a better chance at the consistency of good hunts during that part of the season.
Speaker 1:Well, wade, of course, just so you know as we're talking. You know I waterfowl hunt, but I'm honestly really not that experienced at it. I'm getting better. What do you think is causing the change in the?
Speaker 2:areas In the migration patterns. The number one contributing factor to me is no-till farming and modified seeds, because I mean, if you go back 20, 25 years ago I mean if you go back 20, 25 years ago nobody was growing corn into Canada because they weren't drought resistant enough, they weren't heat resistant enough, they weren't cold resistant enough. Well, with the production of seeds that are more tolerant, we're growing grain crops way further north than we used to. We're also growing grain crops way further west in a lot bigger numbers than we used to. And then the other concept of that is throughout the central plains, most of your farming is no-till. So if you go right here anywhere in Kansas especiallyaska is for the most part same way oklahoma, the dakotas if you go out first of september, you're going to see corn that has been cut and you will see them planting, drilling wheat right on top of the corn without ever turning the dirt, and what that means is you've got significant amounts of waste grain left in the field, because that's the other thing. Nothing's land formed out here, so your combines are running over rougher ground and your headers are moving up and down as they're harvesting, so that naturally knocks down more waste grain, so you get that waste grain laid on the ground and then you come right over the top of that and you drill wheat into it and, man, by December you have the buffet set because the geese, especially when the weather's warmer, they hit that green grass and the wheat. But the ducks and the geese both. But when it gets cold they want those carbohydrates from the corn or the milo, sometimes soybeans depending on what's around, and stuff like that. So you have all that they need dietary-wise right there. And you hear the conversation Again.
Speaker 2:I'm from Mississippi. All my family is from the south, to include my in-laws. My wife is from Louisiana. I talk to a lot of waterfowlers in the south still and people want to talk about heated ponds or flooded corn or this or that or the other and I'm not going to say nothing like that exists out there. But in the grand scheme of things that doesn't even compare to the billions and billions of bushels of waste grain and corn just laying out in the fields across the Midwest. Now contrast that to the Mississippi Delta.
Speaker 2:You go into the lower Mississippi Valley and go look at a field that had corn or soybeans or rice in it throughout the summer. Come November that field has been drained, harvested, burned, sprayed, tilled over and will look like it has never had a piece of vegetation grown in it in history. It will be as clean as you can possibly get it, because they harvest it, they clean it up that way, as soon as it dries out enough, the next spring, they can immediately plant it. There's no food there. Why would the ducks go to where there's no food for them? Um, and if you, you know, if you go to a place where, like missouri, for example, where they have a lot of national refuges and state refuges that do plant a lot and flood a lot of crops and stuff like that, in the, in the mississippi flyway, you do still see a lot of birds, but unfortunately they're sitting on those roofs, um, or on refuges, and there's really nothing you can do about it as a hunter. And you get further down into the south and you go to some of these really big, high-end duck clubs where they're planting and flooding agriculture, you still will have some ducks there. Now it may not be like it was, you know, 10, 15, 20 years ago on those clubs, but again, the overall landscape doesn't have the, the food there that it used to have because the the farming in the lower mississippi valley is so efficient now that it just doesn't leave anything there for the birds to eat, so naturally they have adapted and changed their migration patterns to where the food is.
Speaker 2:And then there's hunting pressure. I mean you can't go to Arkansas or Mississippi or Louisiana or Tennessee and throw a stick without hitting six duck hunters, and that's great, but any puddle that's got a duck on it in those states is going to have somebody hunting it. Whereas you come out to oklahoma, kansas, nebraska and and even further west now, um, you know the anchors versus population that is way more disproportionate than it is in the south, so you just don't have nearly as much hunting pressure, um, as you. As you continue to go further west, and that that lets the birds stay in an area a lot longer. Between rivers, sand pits, quarries, hydroelectric dams, you're going to have water still open, no matter how cold it gets. We see the Missouri River and the Dakota stay open into January or later.
Speaker 2:We've had stretches in this part of Kansas where it's gotten down to negative 20 degrees ambient not windshield ambient and we didn't get above freezing for a high for three weeks, with lows in the negatives or the single digits every day and highs in the single digit many days. And we still had open water, because either moving water or you get these massive roosts of birds where you get 500,000 geese on something and they'll keep it open. So frozen water doesn't really impact the migration. Now what will impact the migration is frozen food, and that's what we rely on more than anything now. To see birds move, I'm not watching. I don't care what the temperature in North Dakota is. I want to see how much snow cover it gets, because you get 12, 24 inches of snow on their crops. Those birds are going to move at that point.
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Speaker 1:Wade you've educated me more here in the last few minutes. Seriously. I mean, this is. I love it, I couldn't. I'm just sitting here absorbing all this. Man, what an education. I'm being very serious man, seriously. I've learned more about the migration pattern from you than anything I've read or listened to Pretty good stuff.
Speaker 1:No, you know, I went to Arkansas this year for the first time and hunted stew garden, and you know, no offense to anyone, but I really wasn't impressed at all. Matter of fact, the weather was bad too. It rained and lightened the second day and I hunted Louisiana. One day wasn't great. Second day we actually got a limit, but I I was in between those hunts. I'm saying this for a reason in between those hunts I was supposed to go hunt with you, with my friends keith and josh, and you and I was dying to it. I was just killed, man, I've been going to hunt, you know, I've been driven. I've been to st hill crane hunting too, and love it, I've just worn out. But arkansas, lou to Arkansas, louisiana. And I live in West Texas, not Dallas.
Speaker 2:West Texas Way out. Here You've got to drive a half a day to get to Dallas.
Speaker 1:Dallas. I'm just getting warmed up, my car's just getting warmed for the heat. When I found out what you guys did, I was sick because y'all killed more ducks than I killed. Three states in one, you know one hunt.
Speaker 2:So anyway, uh, I will be back well, you know, when they were here and and really the last two seasons, we leaned real heavy on the geese. Um, because that and that's and we're lucky in that aspect here that we have options when it comes to waterfowl hunting. So if the ducks aren't here or the ducks aren't doing what we need them to, we can flip-flop over and goose hunt more, and most of the guys that come hunt with us want to hunt ducks over geese. I want to hunt ducks over geese personally. But I mean, if you get out on some of these lesser feeds where you've got 20, 30, 40,000 lesser can of geese and specks and snows mixed in on these massive dry field feeds and you get, you know, 3, 4, 5,000 of them tornadoing over the top of you, screaming and you shooting 10, 12, 15 birds per per volley, like it's as fun okay, it's almost as fun as duck time not quite but but it's real close, it's a lot of fun and and and once guys get to experience that, um, they do, they do, you know they're much more open to going out and doing that some more. But, but mallards are still our bread and butter. That's where I mean 90% of the ducks that we kill are mallards, whether it's on dry fields or cattle ponds. My favorite is hunting the river, so we really focus on that when we can.
Speaker 2:But the last two seasons we've had some very irregular duck migrations. Last year especially was really tough. The year before last was tough. It got better in January this past season. Even though we had ducks in January, they got here right about New Year's Again. The zone that most of them were in was in that split that I was telling you about and they sat for two or three weeks in that zone and they really got real stale Even though they weren't getting hunted. They knew where the roost was and they knew where the feeds were and where they could go in between without getting shot. And so by the time it did open back up, we had a couple good days of hunting and, man, they really were in their pattern and there just wasn't a lot you could do with them. But again, that's that's where we get to lean on the geese and make the best out of it when that happens now?
Speaker 1:do you hunt or guide in other states?
Speaker 2:um, we have guided in oklahoma some. Um, there's some years where the split falls in the southeast zone and instead of being that five days, it'll actually be 12 days, just because of the way the weekend falls on the calendar. So we do have guided northern Oklahoma because I mean we have properties that literally butt up to the state line of Oklahoma and their split is so much earlier than ours that they're open all of January. So we have gone down there a little bit. I don't prefer to. Oklahoma is a very, very, very saturated environment when it comes to outfitters, and not to say that we don't have our fair share in Kansas, but it's even more so in Oklahoma in Kansas, but it's even more so in Oklahoma. So it's very difficult to gain access and get on the birds and really competitive and things like that. So we just don't hunt during the split, we just let it be and we'll go back to hunting when the ducks open back up or we'll take a goose group out or something.
Speaker 1:Now do you all have a crane season there?
Speaker 2:um, we do. You have to go significantly west of or southwest about an hour to an hour and a half from where I'm from or where I live. Um, I do have a really good friend that guides crane hunts and and um, just southwest of us. I personally don't do it. They're very inconsistent on their migration, so it's really hard to bank on when they're going to be there and when they're not, and it's just for as far away as it is for me. I'd rather spend that time hanging out with my family and doing stuff like that before the meat of duck season gets here.
Speaker 1:Yes, yeah, you know, and I guess I've hunted a couple places, but I think once you get a taste of crane hunting around Lubbock area, I can't imagine someplace being better.
Speaker 2:Yeah, it'd be hard to beat that, because that's where so many of them are ending up for the duration of the wintertime. I think the concentration there is probably other than the reverse migration going back up north. It's probably about as concentrated there as you can find.
Speaker 1:Now do you also breed dogs as well? I?
Speaker 2:have not. I got dogs with the intention of that and changed my mind.
Speaker 1:I'm exactly the same, exactly.
Speaker 2:I mean, I'm never going to say never and have some amazing dogs that would be good to do it with, but it's just. There's so much that goes into that. I feel like it's one of those things If you're going to do it right, it's something that you have to dedicate and do continuously and get better and better and better at it over the years. And you know, when I first started training and owned British dogs, they were not very popular in the states yet, so you were kind of limited on where you could get really high-end British dogs. You can get a good British dog from all 50 states now. So if I need another dog, I'll just find one and go get another dog, and I know enough people that have them.
Speaker 1:That puppy resin. I've had to do it a couple times on accident and it's just. It's not my thing either and I'm just like. I've got dogs that are probably breed worthy, yeah, but I'm never going to be a breeder.
Speaker 2:Yeah, I'm the same way and, like I said, we and you and I kind of talked about this on the phone, you know another day, but we kind of.
Speaker 2:I mean, we had a, we had a split in the road and we had to make a decision.
Speaker 2:We could either be really really good at outfitting or really really good at gundogs, but trying to well, the old saying, the dog that chases two rabbits goes home hungry we had to pick one or the other and really focus our energy on one or the other, one or the other.
Speaker 2:And because the outfitting has so much um, growth potential and and diversity here where we live especially when you start talking about whitetail hunting and that you know that was the route that we chose, because every year when we would stop training dogs to start guiding hunts, we would lose all the momentum that we had gained over the last three, four, five, six months training dogs. And you very well know when you're training a bunch of dogs and you have a bunch of dogs, you know that took away from my ability to market and book and do everything else that I needed to do on the outfit side of things. So it just I just felt, like we, that I needed to do on the outfit and side of things. So I just felt like we weren't going to be as good as we should be at either one if we kept doing both.
Speaker 1:And wait, that outfit ain't no easy cakewalk, is it?
Speaker 2:It has times where it's pretty tough.
Speaker 1:Yeah, you know, I've hunted a lot with a lot of guides and I'm like man, these guys earn their money, you know.
Speaker 2:Yeah, it's not easy. Some days are better than others, but especially specifically for waterfowl, you've got a very small window to make hay while the sun's shining. It's a lot of long days and rough conditions and and things like that, but you know the the enjoyment of it. It makes it well worthwhile, you know in the end?
Speaker 1:wait, since you're a deer hunter, you know I've talked about that before too. Um, and I don't know if we've ever talked about shed hunting, but you know I got into that real heavy. It's actually how I ended up accidentally getting into British Labs was through shed hunting. But do you do that much, since you're guiding and scouting for deer all the time?
Speaker 2:We no, me personally, I don't. Now, some of the guys do. I have never gotten into shed hunting and it's not because I don't like it or I don't think anything's good about it, it's because I turkey hunt a whole lot and so the early part of turkey season when we're out there walking around in the woods, we're basically shed hunting. At that point now, later, later in turkey season, when the brush, you know, all gets thick and and stuff like that, it's hard, it's hard to see anything. But we, you know, we pick up a ton of sheds when we're out and and this is our everyday job, so we're out and about so much we we come across so many, so many sheds.
Speaker 1:It's just on accident do you have a lot of openings I know this is a gundog show, but uh do you have a lot of openings for deer season?
Speaker 2:so yes and no, um. Canvas is a draw state for um, for deer tags and, and it's also broken down into different units and most of our ground is in units 13, 14 and 15. Um and and we did exactly what I expected. On the draw this year we drew about 60 to 63 percent of our people that put in for it got drawn and that's. That's exactly where you want it to be, um. But the bulk of them got to unit 13 and 15 and I have very few hunters in in unit 14, so I do have some availability in that one unit.
Speaker 2:Um, not and and not and. Not a lot, just a few bow hunters and a couple of rifle hunters would be about it. But yeah, so if anybody's listening and they do want to come hunt Kansas for whitetails, it's a lottery process you have to put in in April and then they typically draw the last week in May, first week of June, and if anybody's really dead set on it, the best thing to do is just give me a call and I'll walk you through the ins and outs of the draw process to up your odds as best as possible.
Speaker 1:So you don't get an outfitter tag.
Speaker 2:No, there is no transfer of whitetail tags in the state of Kansas outside of there is one scenario where the governor gives away a small number of tags to nonprofit organizations that they can turn around and auction off as fundraisers and when I say small I mean five of them for the whole state or something of that account. Landowners cannot transfer tags, outfitters cannot transfer tags. You cannot get tags just because you lease around up here. The only way that you can get tags guaranteed as a non-resident is if you own 80 acres or more or you are um, there's a, there's one more stipulated. I want to say it's called landowner tenant, but I think there's a different name for it.
Speaker 2:But basically you have significant financial interest in property up here from a beef cattle production standpoint or agriculture. Say, you manage a 5,000 acre farm up here that you are the farm manager on, but your residency is still in Texas. So you have that significant interest in the operation up here, significant interest in the operation up here. So that's a gray area even where you can get the tag. But I think there's some justification. You got to do with KDWP on that one For everybody else non-resident put in an.
Speaker 2:April you select your priorities on your units and then you'll get drawn. Now you got a 60% to 70% chance of getting drawn without a preference point Now. If you put in you don't draw, you'll automatically receive a preference point and you're all but 100% guaranteed the next season.
Speaker 1:Okay, okay, and, like I said, anybody that's interested they can get up with you. Now, when you put in for the lottery system, can you put? Do you have unit choices or is it just okay?
Speaker 2:yeah, you, you. There's a drop down menu on the right side of the screen. You have to prioritize your unit choices in there and that. And that's why I say specifically you know, just call me, that way I can make sure you're putting in for the right ones, and so on and so forth. It's not really complicated once you know how it works, even though when you're learning about it it feels kind of complicated at first.
Speaker 1:I did not know that. I didn't know as much as I've deer hunted I've never hunted Kansas but I did not know it's been.
Speaker 2:It's always been a quote-unquote draw system for non-residents since it, since they opened it to non-residents, it hasn't always been open to non-residents. The big change is, if you go back to about four years ago or five years ago, that was the first year where we had more applicants than we had tags available. So used to, as a non-resident, we had more tags available, especially for archery, than we had people come in for. So last year there were 22,700 non-resident tags available and I think there were 32,000 applicants. So we were at about a 10,000 tag deficit right there. So again, that puts you about that 60% mark. Now more and more people are holding on the preference point now. So I I think we're going to see that value and those continue to to go up.
Speaker 2:But, um, you know it's, it's not expensive, comparatively speaking. Um, you have to buy a hunting license or have an active hunting license and then, um, you don't get charged for the tag if you don't get drawn. I may misquote this, but I think a deer tag is $375 and a hunting license $125. And if you buy your hunting license, you don't get drawn for a deer tag. Just come duck hunt with me. You already got your hunting license.
Speaker 1:Yeah, there you go. No, I like it. Uh, I'm gonna do that next year.
Speaker 2:I got, I don't know, too late now yeah, yeah, just let me know and I'll walk you through the process on it yeah, have you ever used your dogs to track deer?
Speaker 2:I have. Uh, I think I'm trying to think of when the last I, the last deer I killed? Um, I don't. I grew up bow hunting day in, day out, um, and I, I don't hardly ever deer hunt anymore myself. Uh, the most I'll do is take my, take my son out deer hunting. Um, I shot a deer three years ago, my, my, my oldest British lab. She sleeps on the back seat of my truck every single day.
Speaker 2:And so I shot a deer with a rifle because basically I was sitting out there waiting on birds to start flying on one of our leases and I knew there were some big bucks in there and I they were still still kind of tail end of the rut. So I slipped, slipped in against the wind and did a little. Did a little walk 50 yards, rattle, sit down for five minutes, walk 50 yards, rattle, sit down for five minutes and and, sure enough, rattled in 140, 145 inch buck. But he was really really old, big body deer. I shot him with a rifle and he ran off. And so I went and got my lab out of the truck and she did blood trail the deer and she's blood trailed several deer for me. But no training whatsoever. She's very, very scent driven anyway, so she knows that's an odd smell and that blood's an odd smell. She's actually trailed a down turkey for me before.
Speaker 1:What's the biggest buck? Either you've killed or you've guided up there.
Speaker 2:Me personally 150-inch, 145, 150-inch beer Nothing crazy. We had somebody kill 180, 183 and five, eight inch deer two years ago. Um, we did have a deer shot last year that conservatively was 180 inches, realistically I would say it was very pushing 200 inches. But we lost it with blood for about a mile and three quarters before we lost the blood trail. And I don't know if that deer made it or died. I have a feeling it made it just because the area was in. If somebody would have killed that deer or found that deer later, I think I probably would have heard about it, but of course we didn't get any more pictures of it and this was during late rifle season. I wasn't even running that many cameras and corn after that anyway. So it very well could have still been around and I just didn't get it. But here in about two weeks I'm going to have cameras on a whole bunch of corn back out there. We'll see if he pops back up Nice.
Speaker 1:So that was last year? Yeah, that was last season.
Speaker 2:Yeah, I sent videos and pictures of him. He was very, very consistent. One of my, the first person, really the only person I let. Bowline was one of my guys, and part of that was because of the unit that he was in. I wanted one of us to kill him because I was worried about him being shot and wounded. We had a lot of encounters with him, but just never was able to get a shot at him with a bow. He's a big deer.
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Speaker 1:You know, wade, I've had high shoulder, shot a deer with a .30-06 and tracked it, actually jumped it up. It was down, bedded down a big blood path and also had a lab that blood tracked. This is in Kentucky, where I'm originally from, and lost it lost just like you said, lost the blood trail dog, lost it. My dust dog could track she was. I actually competed with her in blood tracking and I had that deer on the camera. I've still got a picture with the wound up in this top high shoulder.
Speaker 2:Yeah, I mean you'll see that happen, especially on a high shot. It was probably 250, maybe 300 yard shot to him. It was a long shot. He was shooting like a 7 mag, I think. Funny enough, he was from Kentucky.
Speaker 1:Must be a Kentucky thing. High shoulder shots.
Speaker 2:Yeah, as accurate as we like to think it is yeah, yeah, and it was.
Speaker 1:You know, it was usual era, right? I mean I could shoot, I was in the military like you, yeah.
Speaker 2:You may have been pretty windy that day, I don't even remember now. But yeah, like I said, we I paid to have a dog come in. That is a friend of mine, that is a very, very qualified dog that probably got us another half mile out of that blood trail before it just petered out. Like I said, I think the deer made it, but we'll see if he shows back up.
Speaker 1:Do you have openings this year? Wade for duck hunting.
Speaker 2:Yeah, yeah, we've got probably two dates in December and two dates in January, something like that. Do you have a group?
Speaker 1:minimum or how do you do your hunts If somebody wants to go sign up or come.
Speaker 2:So really and truly no, we don't have any group minimums on our duck hunts. If you want your own party, you need to put a group together. We say six, four, five, six, somewhere in that range up to eight hunters in a group. And one thing that's pretty unique about us is we're much more open to people bringing their own dogs. That's my next question.
Speaker 2:Yeah, so we're one of the more flexible outfitters when it comes to people bringing their own dogs and we I mean not only do we allow it, we encourage it, because we know how much time and effort and money that people put into dog training and you know, if you live in an area that you just don't have that good of waterfowl hunting, you do all that work and don't ever really get to see it in action and you know it's disappointing to not have that you know, available. So we want people to bring their dogs out and, and you, it's usually a little bit of time spent on the phone ahead of time, just kind of just making sure we're we're on the same page as far as expectations with behavior and safety and things along those lines, but we very rarely run into any real significant issues when it comes to you got a screen on some right.
Speaker 1:I mean every there's, because there's two sides. I'm all about bringing my own dog, but you also don't have a dog.
Speaker 2:That's going to ruin the hunt for everybody else yeah, that at the end of the day, that's the two considerations. A is everything on stay safe. Because I don't, I can't have a dog that's running up and down the a-frame blinds, knocking guns over and stuff like that, or or flaring birds because it's yipping and barking and moving and everything else, um, you know, ruining opportunities for the whole group. And then you know, so you've got. You've got the, the courteous, the manners aspect of but and then the safety aspect. And then you know, so you've got, you've got the, the courteous, the manners aspect of but and then the safety aspect of it. You know, is that dog gonna break?
Speaker 2:Um, some hunts that's more important than others. But you know, we're out there field hunting, we're shooting. Those first couple shots are level across the, the bow, although because we're just about always gonna let birds get down in the decoys before we call the shot on birds that are still coming in, um, you know, I I don't want to take the risk of of having a dog have accident and a lot of times that scenario where you're field hunting with those lesser canadas, that's probably the scenario that most guys, dogs, haven't seen before when it comes to that many birds and that loud and obnoxious and everything. So I mean I tie my dogs out. By the end of the season my dogs break too, because I've been so busy I haven't been able to keep up with what they're doing on a hunt. So no shame in tying a dog out. I would much rather put it on a quick, quick leash and and keep it safe and make sure it's going to make it back home than I would any sort of you know, embarrassment of tying my dog out.
Speaker 1:Yes, same, I've done that. Yeah, and yes, uh, that's good to know. Wait, I mean you know I showed up at a at. I mean you know I showed up at a hunt. I got invited to go and I have a dog that couldn't work either one of them. I was going to bring them both at the same time but man, that was a killer, you know, and you drive that far and you spend that money and you've trained, worked. I mean that's why we do it right. I mean we do it because we love working with a dog.
Speaker 2:That's a big aspect of it, for sure, and you know we typically are going to have those conversations early on with guys. But I mean we're to the point now where I'm not going to say every single group, somebody's bringing their own dog, but it's probably pretty close to it. I mean we get a lot of them.
Speaker 1:Well, Wade, seeing that you've guided so many duck hunts, you've duck hunted yourself a long time. If you had your choice for your job as a guide a duck guide if someone wanted to bring you a titled dog, what title would you want Out of all field trial? Master, national, grand. What title would Wade Skins of all? Field trial? Master, national grand. What title would Wade skins?
Speaker 2:I mean, honest to goodness, hrc, h or, or you know, grand dog dog. Oh man, I tend to lean towards the HRC or UKC side of things, especially when it comes to a dog that you're really pushing to be a solid hunting dog. I've hunted with a ton of master dogs and they're great. A lot of times the drive that you need to achieve high-end AKC titles will be hard to manage when that dog's having to sit still and again. There's always exceptions.
Speaker 2:I've hunted with plenty of AKC title dogs that were great. But I have hunted with a decent amount of AKC dogs that really struggled with the steadiness side of it, because they can do some amazing things when they're retrieving. But they have a very big motor and that very big motor a lot of times can make it a little more difficult for them to relax when it's time to be steady. And I've had plenty of dogs that were HRCH that were great and some that struggled as well. So you know, at the end of the day it's such a combination between genetics and handling and you know, obviously good genetics are irreplaceable because you're putting odds in your favor as best you can up front. But I've seen plenty of dogs with really good genetics. That didn't turn out real well too, so you still get what you get in the end with it.
Speaker 1:That's true, then you can mess a good dog up by bad training. I know that for a fact 100%. Now you're still running British dogs only, correct? Mm-hmm. Okay, have you owned any other hunting breeds since you've been an outfitter, like a Brittany, a Boykin, a Cocker, anything else?
Speaker 2:Not long term. I have a couple of guys that I've had that guided over the years that had German Shore Hares or Wire Hares, wire hares, some of those Britneys I think I'd be probably about all of them. I'm not a big fan of people trying to utilize pointing dogs on the upland side. They're bred to cover miles and miles of ground from daylight to dark until dark. Trying to get a dog that is built for something like that to sit still for hours on a dog stand in the duck blind, there's some that I'm sure can, but I've seen more of them that struggle with it than not. Now they're a lot of fun. Hunting quail and pheasants over a really good pointer is extremely fun. So if you're that passionate about both of them, just get your retriever and a pointer.
Speaker 1:That's what I've done. I get a pointer and I've got retrievers.
Speaker 2:I don't believe in the theory of there's one dog for everything. If you're really serious about it.
Speaker 1:I know there's a lot of people disagree with us, but I agree with you about that and I know there's a lot of good, versatile dogs that can do many things, but to me I'm a purist too, I think do many things.
Speaker 2:But to me I'm a purist too I would say if I had to pick a versatile dog, it would be on that wire hair Drothar side of things. I think they probably do the best, just in my experience of the dogs that I've personally seen with my own eyes, when it comes to that crossover from one to the other. Um, they seem to be able to you seem to be able to steady them a lot better, and they, they can. They can just chill. I mean a german short hair, good lord I, it is a ball of energy, and so trying to get that dog to sit still is not usually successful.
Speaker 1:Well, and I'm like you, the few draughts I've seen I've seen some that's pretty daggone impressive, and I've picked brains away with these guys and have those and do those German tests even here in the States, and what they do in those tests is just. It's unbelievable that a dog can you know. I'll say this and I'll be quiet. But what really puzzled me, or just shocked me, those draughts would go out and actually kill a varmint, you know, like fox, that's where they put them on.
Speaker 3:And then bring a bird back without hurting a feather, kill a varmint.
Speaker 1:You know, like fox, that's part of the test bring a bird back without hurting a feather. That's like how do they do both? But I guess, just like you said, years of genetics and breeding. But it's impressive, the ones I've seen yeah.
Speaker 2:I've got the guy that helps that does our, the guides our upland hunts for us. He owns and is training and certifying and eventually, hopefully, breeding drots and the things that those dogs do, their ability to do, the diversity of types of hunting, diverse types of hunting that they do, is extremely impressive. Now, you're never going to convince me that you're going to find a drop that's going to, on average, outrun a retriever on blinds at 450 yards. But if versatility is the most important thing to you, they are a good candidate for that type of dog. So I like them. Yeah, me too. I put so much more value in the waterfowl side of things and the retriever side of things that it just makes sense for me to personally stick with the retrievers.
Speaker 1:Yes, and you know, even diehard cocker guys would tell you hey, if you want a real cold water retrieving dog, you still can't be in a lab. You know which is? Because they're built for the cold and they're built for it. Well, and they're just so plentiful.
Speaker 2:The the ability to pick through bloodlines to find what you need. Now I have hunted with a few um, crap, I'm kind of brain farting boykins. I've hunted with a few boykins. I like them a lot, even though they're more attitude and personality and that little ball of brown curl than they probably should be most of the time. If you're, you know, if you're especially in the south, if you're a duck prime, you know purist, they're not bad little dogs, man. Um, but you know, I've seen them drag some big geese across a field or pasture too, but it wasn't natural yeah, you know, I've seen I've been really following cockers lately.
Speaker 1:I've gotten interest and I just got one, actually from England, from Ben Randall, and what they can do is amazing too. A little tiny dog they'll retrieve a pheasant that's bigger than them. You can't even see them running with it. Again, it's like you said, roy, with the Boykins. They got that their ball of energy, but the drive is off the charts.
Speaker 2:They can be extremely hard-headed dogs. I've heard a lot of people compare them to Chesapeake Bay Retrievers. Mentality-wise, there ain't a more hard-headed dog out there than a Chessie that I've ever brought Since you brought that up, I got a buddy over in North Carolina.
Speaker 1:He's a guide, he's a trainer, he's actually took a wire hair to the grand, he's got a lab, a cocker and a drop and he trains dogs too professionally. But he charges $1,000 extra a month if you bring him a drop or a Chessie and he's the only two dogs that's ever beat him. Those two, I mean a Boykin and a Chesapeake Bay Retriever.
Speaker 2:The only I think the only hunting dog that I've ever gotten Boykin and a Chesapeake Bay Retriever the only, I think the only hunting dog that I've ever gotten bit by was a Chessie, like, yeah, and I mean this was my best friend hunting buddy's dog that I had helped him train since he was seven or eight weeks old, but he was up in the bed of the truck and we got to the house and we had thrown ducks out on the tailgate to separate them out to take which ones we wanted to eat. And when I went to go grab for a couple of them ducks, he bit me on the hand protecting those ducks.
Speaker 1:But I mean, it's what they were bred to do. It's always what they were bred to do. All I've been told, Wade, that's what they were bred to do. All the ducks of the Chesapeake Bay and Maryland and all that area.
Speaker 2:Is that what you've been told? Yeah, I mean, that's a fact. They were meant to be protective of the market hunters' boats. While they went inside the market to sell their keel for the day, the dogs were staying there to protect the boats. They do have that aggressive streak in them. It's part of the breed. Now, that same dog, when the metal met the meat and everything was frozen and it was negative 20 degrees wind chill outside, putting up with his crap was worth it. Then, yep, he'd go get it a bit wouldn't he?
Speaker 2:Every time.
Speaker 1:You know, I see I hardly ever go to a hunt test that I don't see at least one chassis. Yeah.
Speaker 2:A lot of people want to do something different. Yeah, yeah, and they're.
Speaker 1:I mean, they're good dogs, but there's some genetic predisposition with them that people need to be aware of, I mean so Well, what I've been told about the Cockers is and this is everybody I've talked to so far said two of the same things across the board One, that they're extremely intelligent, maybe like border collie intelligent, and two, if you hurt their feelings they'll hold a grudge for a long time. Yeah, I think so. So I'm real cautious with mine right now, you know like, because I do protection dog work still and you know we speak a different language. So I've got to really be conscientious of that with her, because it's a female too, which can be softer, uh, yeah I think you say that about some especially on the female side british labs too.
Speaker 2:a lot of times you see that softness where you got to kind of mind your P's and Q's when you come down on them. But the good thing is it doesn't take nearly as much correction for them to get the point too.
Speaker 1:That's true. I've got a perfect example and I have a female Fox Red from England. I imported her myself, female, and I love this dog. She's got drive You'd think she's American. You know her drive She'll. She'll retrieve through a brick wall. But you have to speak to her different, yeah, yeah, even if you're scolding her, you have to do it softly, softly, because she'll get she'll. She'll shut out. Just check out and say see you later. Brother, I'm done for the day. You know which?
Speaker 2:I so yeah.
Speaker 1:I've seen that with multiple British dogs, especially people, the way before we go. I always like to to learn something new. You've taught me a lot new today, so that's already been accomplished. But your duck hunting, your migration explanation was textbook. I think you should get a PhD for that.
Speaker 2:I'm lucky enough from doing Ducks Unlimited volunteering over the years, that I've gotten to hang around with people that were a heck of a lot more educated and smarter about that subject than me, so I just listened when they were talking.
Speaker 1:Well, it sunk in. So, as a trainer, wade, what's your number one piece of advice? You would tell other trainers, maybe young kids coming into it or people like me that are still learning. What's your number one piece of advice? Working a dog.
Speaker 2:Embrace the process of it. Don't worry about the outcome. Just judge each day on its own and when you get to the end of the process, it's going to exceed your expectations anyway. So don't worry about what your dog you know what, what your dog's doing at six months old or 12 months old or 18 months old, or you know don't. Don't put those. Don't put those brackets on what your expectations are. Just find a good process, follow it day in and day out and just judge each day individually wait, I absolutely love what you just said.
Speaker 1:Matter of fact, man, he puts that on a dog training T-shirt. Embrace the process, because I'm a high type A++ guy and you know I'm a running gun and you really can't do that in dog training. So I have to really, you know, give myself a check and realize that, hey, this dog ain't going to be a master dog in two months. I've got to, just like you said, I'm going to write that down, man. That that's. That's some deep advice. I love it.
Speaker 2:That's a. That's that's learned through a lot of mistakes.
Speaker 1:I'm doing that. I'm hoping one of these days I hope to quit making mistakes but I don't know if that ever happened but embrace the process, man. I love that. That's we should all everybody listening to remember that statement, because that's worth volumes. Well, wade man, I know you're a busy man and you got so much going on, I'm going to try to get up there and hunt you. I should have done that about six months ago, and then I was really sick. When I saw the pictures. I was like oh man, come on, don't rub it in.
Speaker 2:I think we just need to put a listeners group duck hunting together and just come up here.
Speaker 1:Yeah, y'all reach out to me if you want to go up and hunt with Wade and I'll go with you. So you said December January, are your months right? So you said December January, are your months right? Yeah, okay, december.
Speaker 2:January yeah, all right, and both of those are good.
Speaker 1:Okay, I'm going to go to the Delta Waterfowl thing this weekend down in South Texas, port O'Connor, and two of my buddies that I actually duck hunt with will be there. I'll talk to them about it. We love to get you all up here, all right?
Speaker 2:well, wade, thank you so much for your time hopefully this ain't the last time I have you on here. I don't think so.
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