Gundog Nation
A show to bring together gundog enthusiasts, trainers, and handlers with discussion focused on all breeds and styles of gundogs.
Gundog Nation
Ronnie Cowan - Engaging Youth in Gundogs and Hunting
#48 In this conversation, Kenneth Witt and Ronnie Cowan discuss the importance of outdoor recreation advocacy, particularly focusing on youth programs in Tennessee that aim to engage young people in hunting and conservation. Cowan shares insights on the innovative approaches taken to introduce youth to gun dogs and hunting, the funding and support for these programs, and the significance of teaching hunting skills as part of wildlife management.
They also touch on the challenges of dog training, the role of gun dogs in outdoor education, and the upcoming Outdoor Enthusiasts Expo, which aims to promote outdoor activities and education. The conversation emphasizes the need for advocacy in hunting rights and the importance of preserving the heritage of hunting and outdoor recreation.
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I'm Kenneth Witt and welcome to Gun Dog Nation. Gun Dog Nation is much more than a podcast. It's a movement to build a community of people around the world that like to watch a well-trained dog do what it's bred to do. Also, we want to get our youth involved into the sport of gundogs, whether it be hunting sport or competition. We want to build a community of people united to preserve our gundog heritage and be better gundog owners. Tune in to each weekly episode and learn about training, dog health, wellness and nutrition. We will also offer tips for hunting with dogs and for competition, hunt tests, field trials and other dog sports that involve gun dogs. Please go to our website gundognationcom and subscribe to our email list. We will keep you up to form weekly with podcasts that are coming out. We also will be providing newsletters with training tips and health tips for your dog. You can also go to patreoncom forward, slash gundognation and become a member. There's different levels of membership on there. Just go check that out.
Speaker 1:Also, we'd like to thank Sean Brock for providing the music for this show. The introduction and the outro is Sean Brock. He played everything on there except the banjo by Scott Vestal and the dobro by Jerry Douglas Sean is a neighbor of mine from over in Harlan, kentucky. I'm just crossing the mountain in Hyden Kentucky and he's a super talented guy. But most of all, I want you guys to check out the Creakers. They are also from Hyden Kentucky and this is an up-and-coming bluegrass and country band and these guys are hot. They're all over TikTok and YouTube. You will hear these guys because in a year or so they will be on the radio. They are very talented. Their videos are going viral on the net. These boys are family. Two of the lead singers one grew up with my daughters and the other one is my cousin's son, so he's family. But check them out. Check out the Creakers Also. Last but not least, if you want to buy a hat, koozie t-shirt or even gundog supplies, go to shop gundognationcom and you can purchase any of those items. Thank you so much for listening.
Speaker 1:It's a privilege to have people that want to put up with me talking about dogs all the time. I actually enjoy what I do and I'm so glad to have this opportunity and thank you. Hello, this is kenneth whitt with gundog nation, coming to you this morning from uh fort mcavittitt, texas, at the ranch. You know, lately I've been trying to spice up the show and have, you know, just a variety of stuff on here Really excited about this topic. Today I got a guy on here even though I'm out in West Texas, over from my neck of the woods, just a little further south than me, not too far, about an hour and a half. But I've got Mr Ronnie Cowan on here from the University of Tennessee and Ronnie tell everybody what you do and let's just start digging.
Speaker 2:Yeah Well, my name's Ronnie Cowan. I work for the University of Tennessee Extension, based out of Knoxville, tennessee, on the main campus, but I cover all 95 counties in Tennessee as an outdoor recreation specialist and I'm one of two here. But I focus on what we call consumptive outdoors, which is hunting, fishing and recreational shooting, and basically I do a lot of hunter advocacy and I get people into the outdoors, take a lot of folks on their first hunting trip, do the reactivation, recruitment and retention of hunters and anglers across the state at the university level.
Speaker 1:Now, Ron, these people you're taking out on these hunts, are they youth? Is it different ages? Is there an?
Speaker 2:age bracket that you work at. Yeah, so what I think we're doing in Tennessee is pretty innovative. So we've taken our 4-H group. We started there and 4-H is very, very large in Tennessee. We have one of the biggest in-school clubs in the nation as far as students go, and 4-H starts at the age of nine years old and runs all the way to their senior in high school and we even have opportunities in college.
Speaker 2:But a lot of folks when they hear 4-H they think of agriculture, showing cattle, showing livestock, and that's really big, still a big part of it.
Speaker 2:But we've kind of expanded and we do a lot of other things and we incorporate natural resources, public speaking, life skills, and so what we've done here and how it ties into your world is we've taken two project groups.
Speaker 2:What they learn is in project groups.
Speaker 2:There's a livestock project group, which is what a lot of folks are familiar with, but there's also a companion animal project group where they learn about animal husbandry, how to take care of pets, dogs, and there's this outdoor recreation project group which is becoming really large and the state of Tennessee it's actually the largest individual project group with almost 14,000 kids in it, and so we combine those two project groups and we're introducing kids to gun dogs and hunting dogs and so they're learning about the breeds of hunting dogs, that they all have a job to do, and as someone like myself who grew up as an outdoorsman you know I grew up as a houndsman on the side of a mountain near gatlinburg it's near and dear to my heart, so we're making that connection.
Speaker 2:I think it's just a natural connection with dogs and youth and getting them involved in hunting. And we're going out in these multi-county groups and we're doing field days and camps focused on hunting and using these sporting dogs as a tool to get kids hooked into outdoor recreation, and then we've been having some success with it.
Speaker 1:I love that. So what's the age range of the people that's in this particular gundog group?
Speaker 2:Yeah, so right now we're focusing on middle school age children, you know, 10 and up, and trying to get the ones that are, you know, able to take the hunter safety course.
Speaker 2:Here in Tennessee we make sure that they have a part of that and on up into our college kids. I work here at the School of Natural Resources and we're getting a lot of students, at an alarming rate to me, that have never hunted fish and they're coming to school to to get a degree in forestry, wildlife and fisheries and they're going to be future biologists, future land managers. And to me it's alarming if we have those professionals that don't have a background in hunting, because hunting, as your audience knows uh, preaching to the choir pays for just about all this conservation effort and we want representation at that level. As a hunter, you know most of the stuff I do. I'm a wildlife biologist but I come, as a perspective, as a hunter first and a wildlife biologist second. So we really want that representation. So we're taking youth from 10 all the way to 22, 25, 26-year-olds on their first hunt.
Speaker 1:Ron, I love that. You know my son. I've got four kids and my youngest son is in forestry at the University of Kentucky, which in Kentucky forestry is not a separate college, it's in the Department of Agriculture. And my other boy, my oldest son, he's in law school. I actually get to go to Knoxville there, to LMU's Knoxville campus for law school. Yeah, yeah, to LMU's Knoxville campus for law school. Yeah, but yeah, yeah. But you know all my kids aren't hardcore into hunting. My youngest likes it some. My oldest boy could care less. Listen, part of my movement of this podcast is to try to get youth is actually doing what you are already doing. So what kind of support do you get? Is your funding from the university? Do you get any private money? How does that work?
Speaker 2:Yeah, so right now my funding is through the University of Tennessee. When I first started it was through working with our state DNR Tennessee Wildlife Resource Agency. They've been very supportive and that grant has ran out. Tennessee has seen value in what I do, so we've. So I'm fully funded with a UT extension now, and so we are always looking for opportunities to partner. Some private individuals have helped, certainly in kind.
Speaker 2:Where we're going out on properties bringing out dogs, I wish I could have every type of dog that's out there. I just physically can't. And so we do a lot of advocacy. You know some people call what I do r3. There's r3 coordinators in a lot of different states and that's really recruitment, retention and reactivation and depending on the hunting group that you're talking to, I I avoid that terminology a little bit because some hunters don't think we need more hunters, and I certainly get that when you're racing people to a duck hole or you're bumping into people in the deer woods.
Speaker 2:But really I think we all can agree that we need advocacy because we have 6% of the population over here that hunts and what I tell folks it's hard to tell that when you go to a local Hardee's or a Bojangles and get you a biscuit in the morning, you see a fast food restaurant full of hunters getting ready to go out in the field.
Speaker 2:But when you start getting out into Knoxville, out into the urban areas, we quickly become a minority. And luckily, on that other side of the spectrum, you have 6% of I don't even call them activists, I call them radicals that are dead set against hunting. And so we have this big group in the middle that need to understand the importance of hunting, the role that it plays in conservation, and you'll be surprised that the general public don't fully understand the contribution that hunting has done for our conservation efforts in North America, and so we're constantly advocating for one, the rights and, two, all the good that we come from. Our most powerful tool as a sportsman, as a hunter, is that we fund conservation, and you won't find anybody that cares more about the game, about the wildlife species, than the hunters you know, I'm probably a little bit older.
Speaker 2:I'm sorry I said, and you probably, you probably will hear a lot of folks that you know may understand you know if you eat that animal, that's great. But trying to make these youth understand that by purchasing license, by participating in these activities, that they're better benefiting hikers, bird watchers, I mean everybody benefits from a hunter if you're in outdoor recreation yeah, and it's.
Speaker 1:You know, you're right, the words management, it's a management process. You know, ronnie, I'm I'm probably quite a bit older than you, I'm almost 57, but I remember in eastern kentucky, uh, where turkey was unheard of. I didn't see any turkey until probably the late 80s when I was in high school, and you know, now they're everywhere. But efforts like that, like you're talking about, is what brought turkey back in and elk that we have now in eastern Kentucky some?
Speaker 2:Yeah, absolutely. And you know that's another thing. You know where I'm positioned at. We're such a great vehicle to do this program and to do hunter advocacy because Extension is 100% educational. I don't have to worry about writing tickets, I don't have to worry about lobbying, which you know you can debate advocacy. You know we go out and spread the good message, but we're strictly 100% educational and, just like the University of Kentucky, they're a land-grant university, texas A&M they're providing the research and the boots on the ground to implement real science change. And you know we do research here at the university. We relay it back to TWRA and you know that commission makes sound decisions off of science-based processes. That's conducted by our extension service.
Speaker 1:Now to get into the mechanics of how your program works. Are there classes offered or is it just more like a club activity, the gundog group that you have?
Speaker 2:Yeah, well, let me go back and kind of explain how we first got into this. So you know, I hunted and fished ever since I was old enough to carry a gun and tote a rifle, and so I grew up, you know, hunting big game deer. I mean, the night before squirrel season I couldn't hardly sleep, you know, I was all gung ho about it. And so, having that background, I always knew about hunting, knew about the importance of it and kind of took it for granted. And so, giving back to the community, and also about four or five years ago I contracted this allergen from a lone star tick called alpha gal and I can no longer eat mammalian meat, I can't eat deer beef pork, and so that really changed how I hunted and so I targeted more bird species like quail, pheasant, turkey, and so if someone like me who grew up hunting, you know deer and and and and having hounds, coon hunting and occasional bear, you know. Even someone like me that grew up in the culture, it was a totally new, new ball game, and so that gave me kind of an understanding of of how to approach teaching hunting skills, cause even if you're, you know, a lifelong deer hunter, if you're starting to have to. You know, use uh GPSs and find duck holes and learn about how to set up decoys and the shotguns and all the ins and outs of it. It can be overwhelming, and so we stopped looking at it as approach of just finding people. That's never done hunting and talk general terms. We're trying to teach very specific skills because they're very specific according to what species that you're targeting, and so we do a lot of quail research here at UT. We do a lot of upland stuff here. So, you know, trying to transition and and finding these dogs a job is what really led to you know, some of these programs and currently we offer it as just events if the counties are interested. So if we find a county group that's interested in and what we're offering, we come out, we put on a field day or we host a camp, and so we work with multi-county groups, and the good thing about Tennessee and Kentucky still may be this way too. Texas A&M is we have an agent in each county and so that agent has a committee that that advises on what that county needs, and they see that natural resources is a big deal in a lot of our counties and so I'm busy traveling across the state doing these things and we make it very specific.
Speaker 2:So, on these programs for youth, if it's about quail, we just not only just go out and set out birds, we explain to them that you know, hey, this is not not the answer. You got to have habitat management. We show them what that looks like and how we manage for quail on the landscape, and then we talk a little bit about the glory days of the south and and how it used to be and how we got to the point we're at. And then we go out and we do a hunt and now we have a lot of fun and, and you know, the pin race birds might not be the answer, but it's certainly the answer to get those kids hooked and on a very successful hunt.
Speaker 2:You want to make these, uh, novice hunters successful early and that's a great tool that we use and so we go out there and we teach them about the dogs and, uh, really expanded into companion animal, about, you know, obedience, training, primary care, but these dogs were bred to perform a certain job.
Speaker 2:You know, it's not like I'll use a lab, for example, I have a flushing lab and he duck hunts too. But you know when you're watching TV and you see a big, dumpy lab walking across the show ring. That's one thing. But there's a difference in a field bred lab versus a show lab. So we teach them that these dogs have specific jobs and what they're bred to do. So we do hunt tests, we show them the capabilities of retrieving. We've worked with pointers and let them understand what the pointers are trying to do and all the different breeds are really just geared on a different level and so we do that to try to get them to understand that. You know, we want to keep these dogs active and they're best happy when they're doing the job that they were made to do.
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Speaker 1:I have used this method myself. I've been through it a couple times with different dogs. I refer back to it lots of times when I'm trying to get dogs freshened back up for hunt test season. I highly recommend them. I have actually been a subscribed member of Cornerstone Gun Dog Academy since 2016, and I would suggest anyone use it. I highly recommend it. They have an app that you can get to on your phone. You can do it from your phone, your laptop. You can't get any more convenient than that. I've used it. It's proven and tried and I know literally hundreds of people that have done the same thing that I've talked to. Visit cornerstonegundogacademycom and learn how to train your own retriever. That's right. I'm just curious is that one of your labs behind you in that picture?
Speaker 2:Yeah, that's my. He's almost two years old, he's a chocolate lab and he was my first retriever I've ever owned and so we've been working and, with my schedule and everything, I got to have a pretty versatile dog and so I went that route. But I wasn't looking for a lab and I wasn't looking for a chocolate lab when I found him. But you know, I had to be pretty resourceful and you know, part of getting into hunting is keeping it. You know, uh costly, you know we want to be. You know, get people in uh, that's feasible. And you know, uh, sometimes we're only our own worst enemy. People are paying, you know, three grand for a puppy and I'm not saying they're not worth it, but it's hard to justify getting someone in that's never done it into such a big buy-in. So you know we find ways and things.
Speaker 2:But I found a, found a friend of mine that hunts and was able to able to get good bloodline and everything. It just happened to be a chocolate lab. That is, uh, 70 something pounds. My wife was wanting a boykin but we ended up with a, with a, with a crazy fire-breathing chocolate lab. But yeah, that's my dog, he's uh, I like to tell people he's UT's unofficial uh, bird dog. He flushes for us and it's just organized chaos. The the kids and the students just love it. He's out there and you can tell when he gets birdie, but there's no pointing or nothing. But the advantage is you see the whole show, you know.
Speaker 2:And yes, um, right, currently I'm trying to find somebody that'll work with me on a good pointing breed. Currently we're looking at one that's a slow working, kind of close-in pointer so the students can watch them work. We've we've hunted with pointers and they've been some real good dogs. But uh, they are, they're, they're hell on wheels. They'll get out from you and they don't get to really see it. We walk up on it. It's already pointed. So we're trying to expand our little kennel there. But yeah, that's. You know, I tell people all the time keep your options open when you're wanting to get into it. You have in mind what you want. And I just stress research, research, research. You know, and that's how I found your podcast, that's how I found others and you know these podcasts is a great tool to learn about the dogs, kind of find out what you're looking for and not just buy something because your buddy has one, or it's the color you like you know.
Speaker 1:Well, you know a couple things. First, I was going to ask you do you all have at UT, do you have, a kennel?
Speaker 2:Or how do you? Do you have your own dogs or how does that work? So right now he's my personal dog and so it's on me, and you know I don't care to do that right now. We're growing. That's certainly a goal that we have in the future. The other dogs that we incorporate are volunteers. You know that private support that I mentioned earlier. They'll come out and bring their German Shorthairs and mostly have what we work with, and we've had events where we have some people bring some golden retrievers, different breeds, for them to look at. So eventually we want to get to where we have our own kennel and maybe do some research but mainly offer real world experiences where these students don't have to pay to go on a on a on a preserve or something like that, and we can work with landowners and and take them on that first, first hunt together uh, you know something I'm it's kind of dear to me.
Speaker 1:You know, again, again, I've told you my background, ronnie, there, and also growing up in high school. You know, up until that point we had rough grass in southern Appalachia, you know, all through east Kentucky, southeast Kentucky, and it seemed like. I don't know this, I'm not a biologist, but it seemed like when the turkey come in they kind of slowly disappeared. I've been hearing from all the podcast people I talked to that there's been. They're seeing rough grouse back in east tennessee, east kentucky. Do you have you heard or do you know anything about that?
Speaker 2:well, right now I don't think we have anything specifically going on. As far as research on on rough grouse, I can tell you from experience here in east tennessee, just growing up as a hunter uh, as a kid we'd hear him drumming and um, and we've had more opportunity. I can count on my hands how many grouse that I've seen in my adult life here in east tennessee, which you know. There's a lot of factors that go in that. I'm from severe county, gatlinburg, pigeon ford, severeville. Everybody knows that area. You know you have so much land fragmentation, you have so much of the influx of of people moving in, which you know has its pros and cons. But really from everything that, you know what little I. I know I don't specialize in in grouse, but it's our forest management. It seems like that has really been lacking. You know specialize in grouse, but it's our forest management. It seems like that has really been lacking. You know those are grouse like that young teenage year wood stand. And you know in my area we have so much federal land that is in the park system. The park system doesn't manage for rough grouse and they use preservation, preservation versus conservation, so there's not much cutting. I will say that the that the national forests, like the north cherokee, the south cherokee national forest here they do cut and I think there's some more opportunities coming back and I have some friends that that run grouse and they're finding more flushes and uh, it's a rough area to hunt. You know these east tennessee hunters, east k, east Kentucky hunters in southern Appalachia they have to deal with things that maybe the north Wisconsin folks don't do to get on grouse with the terrain. But we're starting to see that come back more. But it really ties into that management.
Speaker 2:And if you talk about turkey habitat, you know one thing that you mentioned kind of looking at turkey and grouse together.
Speaker 2:I don't know much to speak to that, but if you look at some of the management practices for quail and brooding habitat management for turkeys, they're really, really similar and they really benefit each other.
Speaker 2:So if you can find that niche opportunity where you're managing it like most people manage for whitetail deer, in my professional career as a county agent, before I came on board here in this position, people wanted to manage for whitetail deer, bobwhite quail and turkey and so the advantage of that is when you manage those animals you're really managing for early successional habitat, you're managing for disturbance and that's going to benefit an array of different wildlife species and so it's really beneficial to you know, even if you're kind of one wildlife species in mind, a lot of those trickle over into other species and so, like turkey management, when you're doing that early brooding habitat, that early successional, I can see where some of that could possibly benefit grouse, where you're, where you're doing the cuts, not immediately, but you know, getting that younger, dense, thicker forest that we need yeah, it's that you know, you're right, the grouse like that young timber and thick kind of forest habitat.
Speaker 1:I guess, yeah, and I never realized. Know, you're right, the grouse like that young timber and thick kind of forest habitat. I guess, yeah, and I never realized that what you're saying. They're not necessarily in the tall mature timbers, it's not their thing, correct?
Speaker 2:Yeah, yeah, from my understanding and from my experience, they like the younger forest that's thicker. You know the old growth system in this area you're talking about the beach maple forest in the mountains and it's really not that diverse as far as it comes to our game species. You want mass-producing stories. You know you want an understory, a midstory canopy structure, and then you have that nesting cover, loafing cover, and you know you've got to have food in there, there too. So basically, you want to create sunlight to the forest floor, and when you have a closed canopy system, that's just not allowed to happen okay.
Speaker 1:Do you? Do you ever run across in your work any remnants in in the woods of a chestnut oak?
Speaker 2:I'm sorry can you say that again?
Speaker 1:uh, when you're, you know, in all your forestry work and stuff, ronnie, do you ever run across any remnants of like chestnut oak?
Speaker 2:yeah, yeah, so we in east tennessee we can. We can find some saplings that are coming back from an old, old tree that's growing there. We see that quite a bit in certain locations where they'll be trying to come back from where an old stand was at. You can still drive around the area and see some old American chestnut barns and stuff like that. It was a very big deal here in the Gatlinburg area. There used to be a big market for it there, off of a certain turn and pretty close to the park. But uh, years ago ut did some good research about trying to trying to look at that and doing some of these genetic crosses and stuff. It was a it's a sad, sad story with that chinese chestnut and it was just such a valuable tree species and valuable wood species for us yeah, yeah, I mean that you know livestock fed on it and we build our houses and barns with it and yeah, that's something.
Speaker 1:I can remember seeing some stumps back in the late 90s in eastern kentucky, but that was it, yeah, um yeah and uh, we always look for it because it's pretty cool to see you know, yeah, yeah. Does your program get any sponsors from the hunting industry? It's a big industry, it's big money. Do you all have any of that kind of backing?
Speaker 2:Yeah, so we work well with our NGOs. One of the ones that come to mind up top that has been really instrumental in getting a lot of our students involved is delta waterfowl. Delta waterfowl has a r3 coordinator in our area that they do a collegiate thing that we work with, and so we do a lot of partnerships. We do jake's programs with nwtf to get kids out there, and so we kind of partner with each other as far as doing events and things incorporating them. We've had success working with our Tennessee Wildlife Federation. They do a hunting and fishing academy that we partner with and we have a big event coming up that we're partnering with a bunch of those outfitters or those groups, called the Outdoor Enthusiast Expo at Maryville College here in East Tennessee and we've got some of those that are participating bringing boots and actually teaching some courses. So yeah, we have a great partnership. We're all in it together. Some of us do some similar things and we try to align our goals and for the benefit of the future of hunting.
Speaker 1:You know, ronnie, I always thought that was a beautiful campus there in Maryville. Yeah, yeah, it's a great place.
Speaker 2:Yeah, it's nestled in the foothills of the Smoky Mountains and they have a beautiful campus. They've got a good area for us to host it. This is the first one that we've done and it's really innovative because our goal, I mean you've been to conventions. That's how we met. Because our goal, I mean you've been to a convention. That's how we met. For the most part, these expos and conventions. To me there's a lot of good to them, but the big draw is the expos. So you go out and you look at the trade show. It's an opportunity to meet people, but you know, I just get a sense that it's more for people that's already in it. You know, a lot of the new non hunters are not going to be there and plus there's a. There's just a feeling that the goal is to sell stuff, to buy equipment to, to, you know, merchandise, and so this expo's its goal is strictly education, and so we have these excursions where we'll be teaching people how to fly fish. The Wildlife Federation will be teaching deer hunting skills, I'll be teaching waterfowl hunting skills, and what's really innovative is we have this component of the non-consumptive group. So the other specialists here, dr Sharp, we're doing this together as kind of like we're all under one tent is the theme of it. So we'll have non-consultative users like the hikers, the mountain bikers, and so they'll be coming and it'll be a mixed user group and hopefully they will learn about what we do and we can learn a little bit about what they do with conservation in mind. We'll have keynote speakers and talking about the North American game model and conservation, some of the things that we've mentioned earlier and that we're really not that different. We just decide how we recreate a little bit differently and so you know a lot of what they do hunters can easily translate to, because for hunting it's not just defined as making a harvest or going out and killing something.
Speaker 2:A lot of times it's just our experience in nature and as we see hunters grow, you know they first start out. It's all about, you know, being successful. They want to make a harvest, they want to, you know, limit out on ducks, but the longer they're in it they start transforming into being more of a mentorship. They want to share their experiences and ultimately it's more about the experience than actually getting a shot off or harvesting an animal, which is always good to be successful in that form. But we see this transgression, or this transformation of wanting to be a mentor and sharing experiences. And so, for example, there's one course that talks about being mindful in nature and it's a group that's coming in that don't hunt and fish.
Speaker 2:Well, I explained to them that's basically what hunters do. They're out there experiencing nature. They're out there, you know, taking their worries and troubles with them. They always come out a little lighter. So we're doing that too, just not just not realizing it. You know and I make a joke I'm not much of a hiker, but hunting obviously is just hiking without a or without a gun sometimes. So, yeah, we, uh, we record or we recreate very similarly, but we just have a different, different mind frame about it. And so this is more like getting everybody together and realizing that, hey, this is the perfect time to come together, because some of the challenges that we're facing nationally and in that whole deal. So it's good to be a united front to enjoy our, our most American ride is to enjoy our outdoors. I mean, the true American dream and the american concept heavily involves hunting. I mean you can't go anywhere else in the world. There's stricter gun laws or stricter game laws.
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Speaker 1:I just want to say this I'm going to add this to this commercial because I know the owners of this company. They've hunted on my ranch, joseph, he and I actually met in Colorado on a hunting trip. That was a real adventure. They are true hunters. They've hunted at the ranch, you know, and I've hunted with them. And Anna, she is just amazing. She is the one that came up with this idea. They were both on Shark Tank. They are amazing people, so I love seeing people like this have a business, and I just had to say that, in addition to the commercial, because I really believe in the product and I believe in the people that made the product. Be sure and go to Foliciouscom or go to Walmart or HEB and try their product. I promise you you will like it. Well, ronnie, of the young people that you're working with in this group, what percentage of them, would you say, come from a pure, non-hunting background?
Speaker 2:Yeah. So we strategically try to target those, and so right now we're looking anywhere from the high 60s to low 70s that have no experience at all in these programs. And the ones that do have experience are kind of like the situation I mentioned earlier. They may have went on a deer hunt but they may want to try upland or they may want to try waterfowl, but the majority of folks are ones that have never been hunting. Maybe their parents didn't hunt or they used to hunt and they kind of got out of it for whatever reason. So we're seeing high numbers of participants that have no background in it whatsoever.
Speaker 2:And for our older audience we've come together and we've taken what we've done with 4-H, with the sporting dogs and those projects, and we create an event called Hunter's Harvest for our young adults and anybody. Really that's just more geared towards adults, where we go out and we have a field day and we talk about the conservation and again it's very specific. And so let's say we're doing an event on deer hunting. We'll teach about deer habitat, deer management, and then we'll actually bring in a harvested deer. We'll take a deer carcass and then we teach them how to field dress it, how to break it down, how to process it, how to safely store it, and then we end the day with a culinary experience where we teach them how to cook it in a cooking, store it, and then we end the day with a culinary experience where we teach them how to cook it in a cooking method. And so I've been going across the state of tennessee a lot of times.
Speaker 2:It's venison, the majority of it, but we've done wild turkey and duck, and so we take this venison, we take it from basically hoof to table and we teach them how to can the venison, we teach them how to make jerky, or we teach them how to can the venison. We teach them how to make jerky, or we teach them how to make sausage, whatever that cluster wants. And the majority of the time it's canning. And so another part of Extension's family, consumer science, used to be called home ec A lot of times.
Speaker 2:This is men's first time ever canning anything, and if you haven't ever had canned venison, in my opinion that's the best way to have it, because it doesn't take up freezer space. It and in my opinion that's the best way to have it, because it doesn't take up freezer space. It's already cooked, you just pop a can open and you put it in whatever recipe you want, and so it's kind of bringing it all together. And you know, one of the biggest hurdles that we identified obviously is opportunity. You've got to find places to hunt and then, once you find that opportunity, if you are successful, what in the world do you do with it? You know, if you harvest a buck, you know you've got a 150 200 pound animal laying there that now you have to do something with, and so you either have to pay a processor which those are getting farther and few between, and or you have to do it yourself. And so to keep costs low, you know we teach folks how to do it themselves and how to prepare it, how to safely keep it yeah, I always tell people fun's over after you hit the ground, then you gotta start working oh yeah field work, yeah, and it's intimidating yeah, yeah
Speaker 2:absolutely, and it's intimidating. You know you take someone that's never harvested animal. It can be a real, a real challenge, and so we explain why we feel dressed and we explain how to do it. We, we actually take the knife and show them. That's something that can't be replicated by a youtube video and in in. In my opinion, there's a lot of feel and a lot of sight that needs to be done, and so they feel much more comfortable during a classroom setting and they're seeing somebody do that and they actually get to do a part of it does?
Speaker 1:does your gun dog group, ronnie? Do they do? Like a wide array of gun dogs. I consider a coon coon hunting a gun dog, right. I'm oh, the proper upland magazine gun dog magazine does. Does not count hounds, but to me if you hunt with a dog it's a gun dog, right, you're using a gun and a dog. So yeah, do you all do that kind of stuff? I like that.
Speaker 2:Yeah, yeah. So right now we're mostly working with the bird stuff, but we have in the past and we have it on our schedule to incorporate more hounds. We certainly, when we do these camps and things, we talk about hounds and how they're different and how they're bred, different for a specific function, and our mascot here at the University of Tennessee is a blue tick coonhound and so that's very popular here in East Tennessee. So we talk about the breeds, we talk about the job functions and ultimately we're going to get them out on some competition coon hunts where they'll see the dogs in action. And so we have that on our docket to do with our college students, and that's a challenge because there's not many coon hunts where they'll see the dogs in action, and so we had that on our docket to do with our college students, and that's a challenge because there's not many coon clubs around anymore. And so also, you know, opportunity.
Speaker 2:We have to have a serious conversation about opportunity, because dogs don't know property lines and when we're talking about bear dogs or coon hounds, their ability to be gone in the blink of an eye, so to speak, and so we're working with local coon clubs and things to line that up and I don't care about them learning about the actual rules and stuff of the competition hunting, but I want them to see the dog's work and tree of coon and the enjoyment that they get out of it and ultimately, ultimately.
Speaker 2:You know you take pride in your dog and so someone that's not familiar with it don't understand. Well, at the end of the day you just have a coon up a tree, but that's totally not what it's about. It's about that connection you have with your dog, that team ability and what I tell folks with any, any hunting dog is if you like football, you're, you're the coach and that dog's the quarterback, and so when that dog has success it makes you feel successful and likewise, if it doesn't do something right, it lets you know on what you have to work on I like that.
Speaker 1:It is. You know, and if you I've hunt, test stuff my dogs you're as proud as my dogs doing something good or or looking good to fellow hunters as I am my kids doing good in a ball game, you know oh, yeah, yeah, I've got a, I've got a five-year-old daughter and and, uh, my wife says the same thing.
Speaker 2:You know you spend a lot of time with that dog and I said, well, it takes a lot of time to have a good dog. You know, it does no good for it to sit in the house or sit in the kennel and so, yeah, especially these bird dogs. You know, that's another thing that I learned. My first, uh, my first bird dog was a weimer honor that was given to me and he was a sweet dog, a great pet. He would not point to save his life, he would not point at all, he would retrieve. He he didn't really want to flush, he was a good retriever.
Speaker 2:But you know, it was just a dog that I I got before. I knew what I was doing and so I learned a lot from him. He died on me at old age. It was a great dog for the family. But you know, learning how to train these dogs and taking time and knowing when you need to consult a professional you know I train my own dogs but's even steps that I I need to help with and going from a hound to a bird dog, even though you've had these hounds. We ask a lot of different things out of these bird dogs, so it's a it's a whole new learning experience it was me too, ron.
Speaker 1:I'm like you. I grew up, uh, beagles and squirrel dogs and stuff mostly. I never owned coon dogs but done some coon hunting and it's just different. This retriever training, advanced retriever training, to me is the most complicated because I've done protection dog work too, but this advanced retriever is difficult yeah, no, yeah and uh.
Speaker 2:You know we ask a lot of it and you know we are with these hounds. Growing up, it wasn't nothing for the cow and family to have. You know, 10, 8 or 10 dogs, hounds out out tied up in the woods, and we never saw them as pets, they were a tool for, I mean, I don't know what that says about me, that's just the culture of what it was they. They had a job to do and so I didn't really have a companion until I got out on my own and started hunting some of these bird dogs yeah, yeah and that and that's that.
Speaker 1:That is how we grew up. That was our culture. You know these dogs, if they couldn't earn their feed day, they weren't worth keeping. You know, um, you know um. I thought interesting story that might interest you. I was. I also was contacted while at the convention. I met you not not in person, but on social media, and it's a high school in Georgia, just across the line from Chattanooga. As a matter of fact, I was in Chattanooga this past Saturday. We went to do the dinner train with my daughter and her husband Anyway, so it's a high school in Georgia, right across the line.
Speaker 1:I think the teacher actually lives in Chattanooga and he just finished his first full year with a gun dog team. It's the only one we know of in high school in the US that we know about, and so he's got two cocker spaniels and a lab. The kids get to have the dog in the school and the school board is supporting this idea. Now I talked to him just Tuesday night or Wednesday and now they've got 19 students wanting to start the new year and be on the team. So he was meeting with the parents, but I'm going to do a podcast with them, he and the students Monday morning. But I thought that was great and it's a shame, but if he was, just across the line in your state.
Speaker 1:That would be a really good collaboration, you know.
Speaker 2:Absolutely, and that's really unique. I've not heard of that either and that's a great tool to use and much needed. We have one high school in Tennessee that they don't have a bird dog team but they work with a local group called Saltbriar that does hunts. It's called Alvin Yorkork institute and it's up up in near in morgan county and they have the students raise pheasants and and things and they put on this huge event. I've partnered with them last year. I'm going to go back where they do a feather to fork deal and they take these kids that raise these pheasants on a hunt and then they cook a meal and so there's some good things going across the country.
Speaker 2:I believe in this effort. We just got to get it mainstream and show the importance of it. But yeah, that's great, that's wonderful. Yeah, I want to do that. We have a local retriever club. Where's it at? Well, it's not top of the school, but we have retriever clubs in tennessee that have helped us uh, do events. So we'll have a retriever club come out and bring several dogs and come to event and they're really hands-on with the kids, actually let the kids cast the dogs and stuff some of these really high trained retrievers where I hope this dog in the background here gets there. But uh, they'll actually let the kids cast them and all that. So we have some adult groups doing some things, but that's a great model to have it in the high school and have it there. That is a wonderful situation.
Speaker 1:And you know, ronnie, what was interesting when I started asking about this he's got a pretty decent percentage of those kids that not only don't have a hunting background, but some of them are video gamers sitting in the house and it's like just changed their lives. I just thought it was a great idea and I'm actually trying to work with another kennel to get them a puppy, a lab puppy to raise and I think that's in the works right now.
Speaker 2:That's great and you know that would be the next step that we need to take here at UT to go further. You know, it's just like showing cattle or showing livestock. If you have a kid showing livestock and cattle, they can have an educational component of that. But the true value of it is them owning that animal or them taking care of the animal. And so if they have their own kennel, they have to feed and provide for that dog, they have to do the training, have to do the, do the health and everything. So that just expands the educational opportunity, not and in my opinion that's the best case scenario purina pro plan.
Speaker 1:Here at gundog nation we use purina pro plan for for our dogs. We actually use the Sport Performance Edition, which is 30% protein and 20% fat the beef and bison. It contains glucosamine, omega-3s for their joints. It also contains amino acids for muscles and antioxidants. It also has probiotics. It's guaranteed to have live probiotics in each serving. There's no artificial colors or flavors. We see the difference in our dogs. We see the difference in their coat, their performance, their endurance and also in recovery.
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Speaker 1:You know, I know in the United Kingdom, like Ireland, scotland, england and Wales each have a gundog team, that they compete for national supremacy. You know kind of thing, and I think it'd be neat if high schools if we could get high schools doing that have a state competition. You know, I think it'd be. But listen anyway, and I know we'll still take it. We're going to be in touch after this podcast, but anyway, I can help. That's what I'm here for, and I'd be a hypocrite if I didn't try to help, because that's what I preach is the involvement. You know, ron, it's this buddy. We want to preserve our heritage. You and I come from the same neck of the woods and we come from a hunting dog heritage and we need to preserve that and pass that on. And it's not just about the heritage, but it's also about how it helps kids Learning a responsibility take care of an animal. And you know dogs, it's's no secret.
Speaker 1:Dogs are good for mental therapy and everything, uh, so absolutely yeah, I think yeah, you know I've actually had a job here in midland texas, an old company I worked in on friday. I I take my pup. I was trying to lab, I took it into work and you know this as well as anybody. But you can take a dog into a place and it lightens up the room. You know it changes everybody's demeanor. I just think there's, let's just say, medicinal, you know.
Speaker 2:Oh yeah, absolutely so. We have a group here at UT that's very active called the Wildlife Society. This is a club that future wildlife biologists, future game ward wardens, future all wildlife professionals are a part of this and they do a lot of education, outreach, and I was out there pitching a dove hunt. We're taking some students on a dove hunt in september and you know I made sure to have my dog there because that's a big draw. People come up, hey, I want to pet your dog. Yeah, you can pet my dog, but let me tell you what this dog can do and and I hand them my card and tell them about this hunting opportunity that student may never approach me if I didn't have my dog with me.
Speaker 1:Yeah, you know you know and I feel like a hypocrite here I've been to delta, waterfowl and ducks, unlimited conventions, and I didn't have any of my dogs with me, uh, and I really thought about it, but it, it would have been a, it would have probably been a big draw, but anyway, yeah, and.
Speaker 1:I'm going to do that and I thought about that. I actually felt guilty. I thought you know, here I am supporting the gun dogs. I don't even have a dog here with me, but you know, I'm new at it. It was overwhelming because we were were selling gundogs, plies and shirts and hats and oh man, it was a. It was a lot. It was a busy convention.
Speaker 2:I drove down. Yeah, yeah, I drove down from knoxville. I wanted to see it and met a lot of good people and a lot of our, our familiar names uh, you being included, and the woman the booth right by you had a bervarian mountain dog, and I told her I said I've never seen one in person?
Speaker 2:yeah, I've never seen one in person. I'm so glad you brought that dog because I've seen them on online. You know, research I always keep, uh, you know, on top of different dog breeds and I said you're the first one I've ever met in person that's had one of these dogs and that struck up a conversation. But you know, getting back to the importance of it, you know I, I tell folks, look at what's going on nationally, you know, with the, with the issues out in colorado and other states, and I tell folks it's as easy as these urban populations. So I'll use tennessee, for example.
Speaker 2:Uh, right now, the way it's formatted it really it can't happen the same way it happened in Colorado. But let's say that the population of Nashville and Memphis outnumber the folks in rural counties. Well, they could put these initiatives on a ballot and so if they want to outlaw chasing bears with dogs or if they want to outlaw coon hunting or any of these dog activities, they can put it on a ballot and vote for it. And they have a lot more votes in the urban areas and so it's constantly, you know, should be in the back of our minds of what kind of story we're telling, we want to tell our own story and we want to be active, and so this advocacy and outreach is just so important that you know we need to get people at least to understand what we're doing.
Speaker 1:You know, I don't know if you've had a chance to listen. I've got a lot of episodes out, but I have guests on here from the United Kingdom, ireland and England mostly. Yeah, you know, and I've had a couple of them from Belgium on, from Belgium. Listen. If you think that our rights can't be taken or slowly eroded away as hunters, as gundog owners, look at these other countries and pay attention. And it can happen here and, just like you said, it can happen in your state. You know Kentucky is as sparsely populated except for Louisville, and Louisville can control, almost control, the state, you know. And of course you know there's a big population in Lakeson, obviously in northern Kentucky, but it swings a big stick and you know areas like where I'm from. There's not enough people to make a difference.
Speaker 2:Yeah, yeah, and people get that disconnected and it doesn't take long to be disconnected. You know People go to the grocery store, pick up food with no thought of where that food comes from. They can get disconnected very quickly within one generation. I mean, you can move away and you don't see agriculture or natural resources. You get this disconnected and it's an afterthought. And so by going out there and showing the good and I'm all for, you know, showing what you do and in a, in a, in a tactful way, but you know you want to spread a good message of what we're doing and the success stories. You know you'd mentioned about bringing turkeys back. That's one great example. But you know that's like quail right now, quail in Tennessee, you know is is not doing great, but we're doing leaps and bounds better than what we used to do. And in its extension, when we have folks, the general message that I tell is if you work hard enough and you put in the work and you do the research, you can have quail on your property.
Speaker 2:It may not be much and it may not be a humble population, but you can have quail. So, um, you know, that's our next success story, and it just speaks to how tough those little birds are to even be around. Because, you know, if we wrote a book on how to eradicate quail, we've done every bit of it, and so yeah working backwards and and they're so fragile.
Speaker 1:Uh, this year is the first year I've ever seen quail on this ranch in six years and I thought they were all gone. Last week I saw another one. But they're so hard to maintain. There's so many predators and you know, here we got roadrunners, those birds and stuff, and then coons and everything else. It's just. I don't know the answers but I'd sure like to help, you know, maintain and grow the quail population. I love it's fun hunting, great eating oh, absolutely.
Speaker 2:And you know when we take kids on quail hunt, yeah oh no.
Speaker 2:We talked about quail already. But just to reiterate you know that's part of it that we talk to our students about is you know, back in the 50s, 60s and maybe even the 70s, quail was the number one driver in my opinion. I mean, you have deer hunting now, but there was a lot of quail hunters back in that time period and it was a social event and I imagine it was probably what deer hunting is today. You hear all about deer hunting and there's a lot of deer hunters, but at one time the quail was king.
Speaker 1:You hear that and it was in places that you don't hear of now. You know people that's never. You know, I deer hunted for a long time and didn't really hunt with dogs so much as I was so into deer hunt. But once you ever get the bug and hunt with your own dog, especially if you've been able to train that dog or at least raise it, there's nothing like it.
Speaker 2:It's it's a bond and a satisfaction that it's hard to explain yeah, yeah and uh, you know, it didn't take long for me to get in the waterfowl when I caught this alpha gal. I, my buddies, they took me on my first duck hunt in Arkansas and I just actually fell in love with it. Came back, bought a shotgun, bought a dog. My wife thought I was crazy. She said what are you doing? I said, hey, this is new to me. I absolutely love it, and when I do something I do a lot of research and give 110 effort. So we just went rolling with it and it's just a totally different feeling.
Speaker 2:And uh, I've got one friend that hunts in our group. Uh, he's not big into hunting with dogs, he likes to be kind of a, he likes to stalk and do other things. He's he's got a different approach and we were. We were duck hunting one time in a little bitty duck hole and water's about knee deep. I meet him there and bring the dog, set up his stand and everything. He said why'd you bring that dog? I said, well, I like hunting my dog. He said, well, if we shoot a duck, I can just walk out there and pick it up. I said, yeah, but that ain't it. It's not about that. If someone tells me I couldn't, bring my dog.
Speaker 1:I don't even know if I'd go bird hunting if I couldn't bring my dog. You know, we I went on a hunt this early this year, the end of duck season, and it was somebody's invited me and I couldn't bring my dog. And I I don't know now. I also I get the other side of these outfitters don't want a dog that's going to mess up somebody's hunt and I get that.
Speaker 2:I understand that and I respect that absolutely. But we.
Speaker 1:You know I'm not going to bring a dog and do that and I know they can't. They can't. Just take my word for it, but it sure ain't as fun yeah, absolutely yeah.
Speaker 2:Yeah, I understand that from an out for outfitter standpoint and I always tell my bunch you know I've got a pup. He's not even two years old yet. You know, I know when he's not doing right and I correct it. But I tell him. I said, hey, if, if my dog has taken something away from your hunt, you let me know, I'll put him back in the kennel, cause I wouldn't want that done to me and I've been in that situation where you go on a field or you go into a hunt and there's a dog running around that has no control and it just ruins other people's experience and that's not what I want to do, absolutely.
Speaker 1:Yeah, yeah, it's, you know, and my dogs ain't always perfect, but I try to take them at least. You know I won't take them in front. Well, you know how it is. You don't want your dogs to make you look bad. Won't take them in front.
Speaker 2:well, you know how it is, you don't want your dogs to make you look bad, and uh.
Speaker 1:And then on the other hand, if you got, if you're hunting with a buddy that's got a dog that's driving you crazy and messing the hunt up you talk about a man's dog. It's like talking about their child.
Speaker 2:You know you'd probably get to fight or something oh yeah yeah absolutely, and you know, it's always in the back of my mind. We went on one trip to arkansas last year and we didn't quite know who we were hunting with and I had never met some of these people before. And they said, oh, you're hunting with this old boy from Louisiana and I thought, oh no, they're real serious about duck hunting. I said I've got this young dog and I was like, oh no, you know, I don't know what he's going to do. And uh, I mean I knew what he's going to do, but you know, you never know with a pup. And I got to talk to him. I walked up and said, hey, I'll just let you know. My dog's only a year old and he's doing good, but you know, he's a pup and he's like, oh, we're all right. And he turned out to be one of the most laid-back guys I ever known. My dog had a great day in the rice field.
Speaker 1:It was. So it worked out, but that's always in the back of my mind. Hello, this is kenneth witt and gundog nation is proud to have one of their sponsors as retriever training supply. Based in alabama, retriever training supply offers fast shipping on quality gear. Your dog will love it. Visit retrievertrainingsupplycom to purchase gear to help you train your retriever. Listen, they have some of the best leashes I've ever found it. It's stuff's made in America. Their leashes are and they source them locally. They have anything you want fast, friendly service, fast shipping, just good people. Retriever Training Supply.
Speaker 1:Yeah, and you know, ron, you sound like me. You know you and I didn't grow up in a duck hunting country. You know, when I moved out here people couldn't believe because they knew by my accent that I was probably a hunter and I had dogs. But they couldn't believe I didn't grow up duck hunting and I didn't. Until I was growing up, you know, until I moved out here, really I never duck hunted. And now I'm like you. And how I got into it. I was training really high, well-bred labs to do shed hunting because I was walking, you know, eastern kentucky, I'd find elk, sheds and stuff. But uh, and I thought you know I'm wasting this dogs. I've got this well-bred labrador that can do way more than shed hunt and that's kind of what led me into to duck hunting.
Speaker 2:And then I, once I done it, I was like, oh okay, I got it, now you know yeah, oh yeah, I mean there's nothing else like it, and I grew up on the side of the mountain literally, and you know if we saw a duck near me it was lost and uh, you know there's some. I mean you can find ducks. There's enough ducks here to to to or to play with. But we always try to go to West Tennessee or Arkansas. But I I've had good hunts in East Tennessee and luckily, you know, I had a good friend group that really took me under their wing and and it took me some good places and taught me a lot. And I'm still learning and so having friends and that's what we try to do in these groups is try to provide a mentor, because that's the best way to get people into hunting is you got to have a mentor and so even me I was experienced hunting, but these guys, these boys that duck hunted a lot more than me. They were my mentor and so they set me up for success and helped me along the way, and you kind of have to learn as you go.
Speaker 2:You know what's your approach. You know I had one guy when I was looking for a bird dog. You don't want nothing but a black lab. Don't ever get a chocolate lab. You don't want black or nothing, and I met some people saying get a Boykin there. So I had to kind of find my way and get that. But there's certainly ups and downs and you can listen to so much information. I mean, we live in a time where you can get whatever opinion you want to believe you can find someone to back you and it makes it hard. So you really got to do your homework.
Speaker 1:yeah, there's so much information out there, ronnie, like dog training information, you know I I'll give a little bit of dog training advice, but I tell everybody, hey, first of all, I'm not a pro trainer. There's guys that know way more than I do. I'm not an expert and this ain't the only way to skin a cat. This is what I do. Try it, you know, but seek other resources. But you're right, there's, there's, you know. There's a big debate all over social media, and has been for a long time british labs versus american labs.
Speaker 1:I've got both, you know, I've got one of each, and yeah uh, but you know, it's just opinions and you just got to find what you like. Uh, I've seen boykins that are just excellent hunting dogs. I know another buddy of mine that trains dogs and he charges extra to train a boykin. He said it's so hard to try, but you know it's just preference uh yeah, yeah, I uh.
Speaker 2:I've got a real good friend of mine that breeds boykins in middle tennessee and I was told him I was looking. He didn't have any pups at the time and he called me back and I thought he'd be mad at me because I ended up getting this chocolate lab. I told him, I said I got me a dog, now I got me a chocolate lab. He said, well, good deal, that's what I recommend for your first dog is to get you a real stubborn, strong-headed lab, because he, you know, and not every dog's a good dog for a first-time bird dog owner, no.
Speaker 2:His thing was saying for someone just trying it out you may have more success with the lad than you would a Boykin, and he's a Boykin guy.
Speaker 1:Yeah, I'll tell you what I've got in the kennel right now. I didn't train this dog, I bought it. He started trained but well-trained so far. But it's a Cocker Spaniel and I'm telling you I can't wait to hunt this dog. I've been working with it. I love seeing them on TV. Oh man, she's bold. Like she has no fear. They're athletic. You see, this little tiny 21-pound dog can jump a fence with something in its mouth. I can't wait. Wait, I'll get to hunter in two weeks for the first time.
Speaker 2:that's awesome yeah, I've seen them on tv and they look like a blast. There's like I said, if I could, I'd have one of each.
Speaker 2:I mean I think they're all great in their own way, um, but I love watching those, uh, those, uh those little cockers run. Those field bred cockers just like, are just back and forth and just so dynamic in the field. And I've been looking at those Spanonis. I don't know of anybody that has one, but man, they're an impressive looking dog. There's another podcast guy has those Broncos and me, being a former hound guy, you know I was like I like the look of that dog because it looks like a coon hound.
Speaker 1:You know well, I was on his podcast last night as a guest good, yeah, ron bone. So yeah, he's got those?
Speaker 2:yeah, yeah, were you. Yeah, yeah, I was on his podcast. Yeah, he was one of the first podcasts I had done, talking about some of the stuff that I do. And, um, you know, we talked about it and we talked about. You know my why I'm a runner. The reason why I haven't bought a pointer since is because I had such a negative experience with my first pointer and it made me intimidated, you know. But yeah, every dog is different, every situation is different.
Speaker 1:He's a good guy. I enjoyed our podcast but I didn't know. He had those Bronco Italianos and he was telling me a story about being down in Virginia and somebody accused him of having coon dogs in there. You know, they said that ain't no bird dog. That ain't a poignant dog. It looks like a bloodhound or an English coon hound.
Speaker 2:Yeah, poitin dog, and because it had them, it looks like a bloodhound or an english english coonhound. Yeah, yeah, one of the one of the funniest stories about bird dogs that I can remember. We had a group of friends and uh, he had this big old lab. I mean, this lab was pushing over 100 pounds, it had a big old blocky head. And we went as a group some of us were there to duck hunt and some of us was there to coon hunt and I was kind of in the middle. I was just learning how to duck hunt and so I would go to these boys in arkansas and I'd walk in. They'd always assume that I was one of the coon hunters because I was wearing overalls and stuff. I said no, actually I'm here to duck. You know, I guess I just look like a coon hunter, but they didn't. They were not mistaking me for the for the duck hunter. I guess I didn't look like a duck hunter at the time.
Speaker 2:But anyways, he had this big lab out there and I mean it's a massive lab, big old head, long eared, and my buddy that coon hunts. He was just going on and on about how beautiful this dog was. I love this dog and you know we were having a, a couple drinks around the campfire and I just looked at him. I said you like that dog because it looks like a Blackentown Coonhound. It just looked like a lab. It looked like a Blackentown Coonhound. It's just amazing to me all the different personality, sizes and shapes some of these dogs have, especially in the lab world. I mean, you take my American lab and you put him next to a show British lab. They look like a totally different breed.
Speaker 1:Yeah, they do, and the show labs. To me they're a whiskey. Look like a bourbon barrel with feet.
Speaker 2:Yep, big old barrel chest.
Speaker 1:We also share something in common, ronnie. If I could have one of every breed, I've always wanted a black and tan coonhound. My buddy from Hyden Kentucky, mike Maggard, they've kind of got their own bloodline they probably have for 40, 50 years, maybe longer, wow, and I think a blue tick's the coolest looking dog you know. I just I wish I could have one. Did you ever run squirrel dogs?
Speaker 2:Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, we had squirrel dogs growing up. I can tell you the best squirrel dog ever had was a little jack russell terrier named mo and that he was an absolute go-getter. He would treat by sight and smell. We never really wanted to keep the ones that just treat by sight, so we liked them to have a little nose and we were concerned when we got them because they're not typically known to have a nose like some of the others. But yeah, we had mountain curs, kimber curs, um, a bunch of those and they were kind of dual dogs. Those cur dogs were.
Speaker 2:But, um, you always remember your, your, your, your best dog and and whatever you're hunting. I remember that little jack russell terrier. We would take him. We didn't have a dog box or nothing. He'd ride in the cab with us and we'd just kind of throw him out. He'd chase those squirrels and shoot them out and uh, that was my introduction to hunting, was squirrel hunting.
Speaker 2:But getting back to the black and tans, we had a beautiful male. He was, uh, he was, uh, his name was jeb and he had a big old, long, droopy ears and this, oh oh, he was so slow, like wouldn't be worth nothing for a competition coonhound but he was just so fun to watch because he was just slow and and and you know he had a method about him. He was slow but he was so true. No, hardly never remember him slick treeing and he was out of set them up ace, which was a real famous uh, black and tan. Back in the day a lot of the coonhounds and the black and tans in the south was set them up ace and we had blue ticks but we ran a lot of walkers and uh, for whatever reason, uh, you see a lot of walkers today. It's hard to. I haven't seen a black and tan at a hunt or hunted with a black and tan in a long time.
Speaker 1:You know, I had two world champion coonhound guys on here at different times and they're all walker guys and apparently when you go to these competitions now, it's about all you see.
Speaker 2:Yep, yep, and they're great dogs. My best coonhound I ever owned was an old saddleback male walker named Chief and he was a good dog. He treated his first coon at six months old and I loved him. Um, you just get a lot of good out of that breed. And um, he had some blue ticks. I got a buddy that's real, real big in it now that hunts autumn oaks and stuff. He's got some good blue ticks. And that ushman breeder, that that line that runs good.
Speaker 2:And uh, it just doesn't stop with dogs. These individuals, I mean you know how serious coon hunters is. They don't just like walkers. They might like walkers that have a red head. They may not like the walkers that have the black head. They may want walkers with saddlebags. I mean they get really in detail in it. And uh, you know, I have a certain way I pick out a puppy. I have a method to it. I don't think there's any science to it, but when I pick out a puppy I have a certain set of things I do. And it's just the culture of of hunting dogs, I mean I could talk about it.
Speaker 1:It's so much tradition in southern appalachia with these hounds and it's just, it's just amazing history when you're getting ready to go on your next hunting trip, make sure you pack the most efficient and reliable ammunition on the market. Migra ammunition brings you the most diverse loads on the market. Migra's patented stacked load technology is the epitome of efficiency Two shot sizes stacked together to create the most diverse and efficient line of shot shells in the industry. It doesn't matter what flyway, what state or what the weather. The standard remains the same At Migra reliable loads that perform in any condition. Every single time, we're proud to have Migra Ammunition as a sponsor for Gun Dog Nation. You know, I drove down in East Tennessee, probably back in 2008, and bought a camera carrier off somebody and I had some original mountain carriers, but I couldn't remember who. To save my life, didn't they come out of East Tennessee, that line camera?
Speaker 2:Yeah, yeah, yeah, and the man's. I think how they got their name was the man's last name, but we had them growing up and I haven't seen one in a long time, long time. But from what I remember they were like a blonde color and a doctor tail and, um, yeah, and they were some good squirrel squirrel dogs that we had. Um, we had the stevenson curs, the black curves that we liked a lot, we actually preferred them, and then some old mountain bale looking curlers and you know. Getting back to colors, the uncle that got me into coon hunting before we had walkers. All he wanted was a solid black plot. He liked a gyp black plot and that's what he wanted and, for whatever reason, he just thought that was it. But I hunted with a lot of plot dogs and you don't see them much in the coon woods. You see a lot in the bear and chasing hogs. East Tennessee still hosts the American Plot Days down here and I go every year. There's always they come out of the woodworks for it all over the country.
Speaker 1:I'm starting to see them more because of mountain lions, even out west. Then I've got friends in Kentucky. Now, finally, you can run dogs and tree bears and I actually talked to my cousin last night. His neighbor's got some plot hounds that they're running.
Speaker 2:I've never hunted with plot hounds, all the dogs that I've had and fooled with.
Speaker 1:Never hunted with one well, I take that back. Had in full width, never hunted with one, well, I take that back they are one time here with.
Speaker 2:Yeah, they are a different breed. They have a lot of tenacity. You wouldn't know it when they're out in the yard or or are on the chain uh, you wouldn't know it, but they are ferocious dogs. They got a lot of grit and they need it for what the work they do. And you know, speaking about bear hunters as far as advocacy go, I work with a lot of grit and they need it for what the work they do.
Speaker 2:And you know, speaking about bear hunters as far as advocacy go, I work with a lot of bear hunters in East Tennessee and North Carolina, just because to me that is the lowest hanging fruit that we have here as far as hunting advocacy goes. And bears, for whatever reason, they cause a lot of controversy with their management. For whatever reason, they cause a lot of controversy with their management and people. When they see them they think it's something like a unicorn or just so majestic, but they cause a lot of trouble for us here in Gatlinburg in the areas and we have more bear now, I'd imagine, than in my lifetime for sure. I'm 39 years old and I see bear in East Tennessee that I have not seen anywhere before in my life.
Speaker 2:So they're down here in Seymour They've been on.
Speaker 1:Knoxville campus yeah, on campus.
Speaker 2:Yeah, yeah, we had a bear on campus a couple years ago here. It was a big deal right in the heart of Knoxville.
Speaker 1:You know when I was growing up we'd see occasionally there was bear spotted in harlan because it bordered tennessee and virginia, but we never saw bear in leslie county at least. I think one was killed when I was in high school. It was in a bee house or something. But now, uh, my daughter sees them all the time at home in Kentucky. Yeah, my kids, yeah.
Speaker 2:We've are. Yeah, we're seeing them in counties that typically don't see them. We're seeing them more so down here and you know I don't know if that's you know, displacement you know we have a lot of sprawl up in the mountains. We have a lot of push them, a lot of them searching finding food in the mountains. We have a lot of push them, a lot of them searching finding food. But I I would have to expect that the bear population is more now than it has been a long time. I mean they have estimates of of around 6 000 bears in tennessee. I would say we're we're past that and a good way they get their information. Another plug-in for hunting is is is they know the bear population because of hunters. They do the tooth removal, they have to submit it special regulations and we're allowed one bear a year. Still we have several different bear units. But you know, years ago they've had some push to do some things for their bear hunting. But those guys need a little bit more advocacy than some of the others.
Speaker 1:I feel like yeah, yeah, it's, um, it's since I moved to texas. You know, when I left kentucky there was no season and you know that's changed, but uh well um what? What's the next thing on your all's list? What's the big news? Y'all got coming up with your program that you want to tell everybody about.
Speaker 2:Yeah the big, yeah, the biggest thing that we have coming up is our outdoor enthusiast expo. It's september, the 19th and 20th. We have a concert and refreshments going on on the 19th with the band playing. This is for all outdoor enthusiasts. If you hunt fish, hike, hike, bike, kayak, canoe, uh, it's going to be at maryville college on the 19th and 20th. The 20th is an all-day thing. Gates open at 8 30 and there'll be stuff going on for the family. We'll have hands-on activities and hunting, fishing going on that the kids can come, they can make their own flies and take a fishing lure home with them.
Speaker 2:We're doing something called geotaku, which was the first form of taxidermy from japan. They get to do a fish press. That's where they used to take paint and paint the fish and put it on rice paper and it makes this this print of their trophy. That was their first form of taxidermy, really, and so we'll be doing that. And then we have these tents set up called excursions, and so we're actually taking people kayaking, canoeing, taking people out in the woods, teaching them how to hang game cameras, tree stands, how to deer hunt, how to waterfowl hunt. So there's something for everybody. And if you just google UT outdoor enthusiast expo. It'll have all that information. You can register. We've had such good support from our sponsors. It's a free event so it doesn't cost a thing to come to it. We'll have barbecue for food and it'll be a real good time. So if any listeners want to learn more, they can go to that website, register and come have a good day with us.
Speaker 1:That sounds like a good time.
Speaker 2:Yeah, and something else that we need to mention about that event. We're actually doing a gundog demonstration, so I'll have my lab there and we'll be talking about gundogs and doing a little simulated hunt test for those folks that have never seen that done and highlight some of the special abilities that these hunting dogs have.
Speaker 1:Well, good deal. Well, I'll try. If you need me to help share that on social media or anything, ron, let me know. I'll put it on all my stuff and try to help you promote that any way I can absolutely.
Speaker 2:We appreciate that ronnie, I guess.
Speaker 1:Uh, I know you and I could probably talk for another couple hours, easy, but uh I know you got to work.
Speaker 2:I'll probably get some stuff done too.
Speaker 1:But listen, it was an honor. I'm so glad you reached out to me and educated me about what you're doing, and once you told me, I was sold hook line and sinker, so I'm so glad that you allowed me to get you on here. But we won't make this a last minute. I'm going to keep pushing this. What was that you, you know, allowed me to get you on here, but uh we won't make this a last minute.
Speaker 2:I will keep pushing this what was that? I'm sorry, yeah, yeah, Thank you for. Yeah, Thank you for uh having me on. I love talking about what we do and thank you for the good work and your advocacy, and it sounds like you're doing a good job and making an impact. I like your content and your, your uh, your website and I've subscribed and I'll help you, uh any way I can.
Speaker 1:All right. Well, thank you very much, ron. You have a good weekend. Hello, this is Kenneth Witt with Gun Dog Nation. I'd like to encourage all you listeners and viewers on our YouTube channel to check out patreoncom forward slash gundog nation. For $10 a month you can become a member of our community and we'll have access to lots of stuff. Mainly, we'll do a monthly forum, an open forum, where you can ask me anything gundog related and we'll learn from each other in community. Should be a lot of fun. Each month we will do that, so check it out. Patreoncom forward slash gundog nation.