Gundog Nation
A show to bring together gundog enthusiasts, trainers, and handlers with discussion focused on all breeds and styles of gundogs.
Gundog Nation
Dr. RuthAnn Lobos - From Marathoner To Vet: Gut Health, Joints, And Safer Training For Bird Dogs
#57 Watch a well‑trained dog do what it was born to do—and keep doing it longer. Kenneth sits down with Dr. Ruth Ann Lobos, a senior veterinarian at Purina and lifelong athlete, to break down the simple changes that protect performance: proven probiotics for gut stability, joint support that starts young, and safer handling habits that save elbows and extend careers.
We get clear on exercise‑induced colitis and why travel, training, and hard hunting can jolt a dog’s GI tract just when you need reliable fuel. Dr. Lobos explains what separates researched probiotics from grocery‑store guesses, including a canine strain with evidence for both adult dogs under stress and puppies building vaccine immunity. From there, we move into joint longevity. You’ll learn why dogs carry more weight up front, how repeated tailgate jumps lead to “jump‑down syndrome,” and the easiest fix of all: a ramp. Add in early joint supplementation and you’re playing offense against inflammation, not chasing it.
Performance is more than energy—it’s resilience. Dr. Lobos shares practical prehab routines any handler can start today: sit‑to‑stand “doggy squats,” tight figure eights, and core‑stability work that translates directly to cover, cattails, and cut corn. We also cover acupuncture and rehab as recovery tools for pain control, blood flow, and trigger‑point release. For senior dogs, the goal is purpose with smart pacing: shorten sessions, add rest windows, cross‑train with swimming or hills, and explore low‑impact outlets like nose work to keep minds sharp and hearts full.
If you care about health span as much as lifespan, this conversation delivers clear steps you can use before the next training day or road trip. Subscribe for more gun dog training, nutrition, conditioning, and field‑ready tips. Share this with a hunting buddy who still lets their dog jump off the tailgate, and leave a review to help more dog folks find the show.
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I'm Kenneth Witt and welcome to Gun Dog Nation. Gun Dog Nation is much more than a podcast. It's a movement to build a community of people around the world that like to watch a well-trained dog do what it's bred to do. Also, we want to get our youth involved into the sport of gun dogs, whether it be hunting, sport, or competition. We want to build a community of people united to preserve our gun dog heritage and to be better gun dog owners. Tune in to each weekly episode and learn about training, dog health, wellness, and nutrition. We will also offer tips for hunting with dogs and for competition hunt tests, field trials, and other dog sports that involve gun dogs. Please go to our website, gundognation.com and subscribe to our email list. We will keep you informed weekly with podcasts that are coming out. We also will be providing newsletters with training tips and health tips for your dog. You can also go to patreon.com forward slash gundognation and become a member. There's different levels of membership on there. Just go check that out. Also, we'd like to thank Sean Brock for providing the music for this show. The introduction and the outro is Sean Brock. He played everything on there except the Banjoe by Scott Vest on the Dogro by Jerry Douglas. Sean is a neighbor of mine from over in Harlan, Kentucky. I'm just across the mountain in Hyden, Kentucky, and he's a super talented guy. But most of all, I want you guys to check out the Creakers. They are also from Hyden, Kentucky. This is an up-and-coming bluegrass and country band. And these guys are hot. They're all over TikTok and YouTube. You will hear these guys because in a year or so that they will be on the radio. They are very talented. Their videos are going viral on the net. These boys are family. Two of the lead singers, one grew up with my daughter, and the other one is my cousin's son. So he's family. But check them out. Check out the Creakers. Also, last but not least, if you want to buy a hat, koozie, t-shirt, or even gun dog supplies, go to shopgundognation.com and you can purchase any of those items. Thank you so much for listening. It's a privilege to have people that want to put up with me talking about dogs all the time. I actually enjoy what I do, and I'm so glad to have this opportunity. And thank you. Hello, welcome back to Gundog Nation. This is Kenneth Witt with the Gundog Nation podcast. Uh, it's my pleasure today to have a special guest on here. Uh, I've had some folks from Purina. I've had veterinarians on here from Texas AM. Uh seems like it's a funny thing, Dr. Lovell. It says all the vets I've had have all been AM professors or practicing vets who graduated from AM. So uh where did you go to school? I might as well get that out of the way.
SPEAKER_00:That's right. Well, thanks for expanding uh your you know your pool of veterinarians. Uh actually, I graduated born and uh raised Baton Rouge, Louisiana. So I went to LSU for undergrad as well as veterinary school. Um so I bleed purple and gold. We will not go down the road of college football, and there's still the angst that I have against Texas AM because when I was growing up, we were their cupcake game every year, and they beat the pants off of us um every season, and still is like that's a deep, deep scar uh in my personal history.
SPEAKER_02:Well, you won't feel you won't feel so jaded about me because not only am I a Kentucky native, born and bred for about 200 years on both sides of my family, I'm a University of Kentucky graduate.
SPEAKER_01:Okay.
SPEAKER_02:So yeah, but believe it or not, I have a I have a great respect for LSU football. I have a bunch of Louisiana friends, and the great state of Louisiana was so kind to me. It not wasn't just me, but all disabled veterans, even non-resident veterans, which no state does this, but Louisiana.
SPEAKER_00:Yeah.
SPEAKER_02:Free lifetime hunting and fishing license.
SPEAKER_00:That is amazing. I did not know that, but that's wonderful.
SPEAKER_02:I I got it last year, it's my first duck hunt there. I got it late in the year, and yeah, that's so nice. I told him, I said, I love you guys. So uh, and uh I've got a really good friend who's a landman like me, and also an LSU law school grad uh that that's from Lake Charles. Okay, so what far Louisiana?
SPEAKER_00:Baton Rouge. Yeah.
SPEAKER_02:Oh, that's right. You said that. Uh yeah, yeah. So all right, now we we we digressed on the introduction. So I won't and and I'm you you have to kind of reel me in sometimes. I I can go all over the place talking, uh, unfortunately. So let's Dr. Ruth Ann Lobos, please introduce yourself and tell the listeners what you do for a living.
SPEAKER_00:Sure. Uh so Dr. Ruth Ann Lobos, my technical title is Senior Veterinarian with Purina. Um, I have been with them. It'll be 20 years this November, um, which for your listeners and viewers, that means I started when I was about 12. Yeah, naturally, naturally. Uh but uh I've worn a number of hats with Purina. Um, and my current role is a lot of um what what I we like to say consumer education, PR, public communications. Um, I do work a ton with our sporting dog group. Um, that is where my heart of hearts is with these athletic dogs and and making sure there's so much information out there that making sure I do my best at helping those guys and gals out there that are out in the world with their dogs and all kinds of environments to have the best information possible for keeping their dog fueled and safe and fit and all of that. Um, I'm based out of Boulder, Colorado now, and um still do a little bit of practice. So I'm in a clinic a couple of days a month and certified in canine rehab as well as veterinary acupuncture. So again, love just keeping our pets as fit as they can and really helping to lean into their uh great lifespan and health span.
SPEAKER_02:Now, this is interest, it interests me that you've been there such a long time. I don't know if I've met anybody on their staff that's been there that long. So, what is your role at Karina? I know you're a veterinarian, but you obviously have some kind of specialty, I'm sure.
SPEAKER_00:Yeah, so a lot of it is communication. Um, so there, whether that is for our PR team speaking at different public events, um, I was at DUX and I'll be um at Pheasants Forever and SiWE and some of those larger uh you know consumer events that are happening, speaking on either nutrition or first aid or things of that nature. Um so again, that those those those consumers out there can better understand all the expertise that backs up that checkerboard logo.
SPEAKER_02:Okay. So you will be at Fezz of Fest too. And that's where I got to meet you, I guess the first time, the only time was at Ducks in Memphis. So when you say, I won't joke you too bad, but you said senior veterinary. That's it has nothing to do with your age, right? That's that you've been it's a your or that you work with older dogs.
SPEAKER_00:No.
SPEAKER_02:Okay, that's what makes sure so, or maybe you work with older dogs, like the senior veterinarian.
SPEAKER_00:I mean, I do have a a very special place in my heart for our senior dogs. Um, and one helping them to get to those senior years, but then they are just so special um in that time with us. But no, that does not uh my age uh does not reflect the senior uh in my title. Thank you.
SPEAKER_02:And I'm you know, I'm just messing with you. Please don't get mad at me. Um so uh I I didn't know this until just a few minutes ago. We were having a brief discussion before the podcast, but you were you have an athletic background yourself.
SPEAKER_00:I do, yep, yeah. So I played basketball and volleyball um for as long as I can remember. There's pictures of me in kindergarten in first grade, uh playing around with a ball on a team. And um, and now I, you know, I've transitioned that into um endurance sports. So currently training for the New York Marathon, uh New York City Marathon, which will be first week in November, uh, that is how I keep my sanity. Um and I've also always had athletic breeds. So um, you know, being a uh female, oftentimes I, you know, I'm running a what I like to say, oh dark 30 in the morning. Um, and having that four-legged by my side is a little bit of security, a little bit of companionship, uh, and all that. So that's kind of where my dip in the toe in the in the veterinary space really started to expand. Um, when, you know, again, supporting the dog, that was being my running buddy, and then it evolved into the upland world um, you know, back in 2020 when a lot of people were adopting new hobbies, and I delved into the world of of hunting uh thanks to that pandemic.
SPEAKER_02:Well, you know what, we need to get that to spread. We need to get more ladies into hunting. Uh it at all ages, right? I've had a group of young, really young ladies on here who grew up in non-hunting homes and now they're hardcore. That's so cool to see that.
SPEAKER_01:Yeah, yeah.
SPEAKER_02:So I'm gonna dig into this a little bit then, because uh if you do marathons, I mean I've done a half marathon once and uh tr two triathlons, but they were half triathlons, Pittsburgh and uh Presclean, Lake Erie.
SPEAKER_01:Okay.
SPEAKER_02:I don't look like that now. But I know just from my little venture in that world, which is very brief, nutrition is huge. So you have to be just personally, not just talking about dogs, you have to be strict in nutrition for yourself, I assume.
SPEAKER_00:I I do my best. I would oftentimes I'm like, do as I say, not as not as I do, depending on how uh, you know, like my schedule of of life goes. But but I really I do try to, you know, especially when I'm actively training um for an event like I am right now, um, really focusing on that because we all know, like, you know, there's whatever the Snickers commercial that's like you're not you when you're hangry. Um, and it's true. I mean, our brains use whether it's ours or our dogs, like their brains and their livers are the ones that are like the most metabolically active, so sucking up the most amount of calories. Um, so you can't, you know, you can't focus, you can't be at your best if you're not fueled properly. Um so I do especially, like I said, when I'm in the in the midst and the throes of training, focus on that nutrition for myself, uh definitely.
SPEAKER_02:Well, I think this is a great segue into animal dog nutrition, especially. Dr. Lovells, tell me, you know, just tell me what your role is, if any, at Pure and Nutrition, and then just what, you know, let's talk about that. I you you probably don't so much, I honestly don't know where to begin questioning you. Sure. So I'm just gonna let you roll.
SPEAKER_00:No, I do not, I will say I'm not a a boarded veterinary nutritionist. So um those are folks who have gone after veterinary school, they went and did, which is four years, they went and did a residency in nutrition. So uh they went for extra special training. Um, and then you have to sit for your exams and all of that. So that's oftentimes that's another, you know, three years on top of the already four years that was veterinary school. Um, but I would say kind of my specialty within Purina is being able to take the hardcore like bench nutrition nerdiness and verbiage and be able to translate it so that folks like yourself and other, you know, um consumers out there can really get what we're trying to say as Purina as far as how that nutrition benefits their particular pet. Um, and um you know, and I think it's uh it's kind of like the practical application of the amazing expertise uh that goes into every single product that Purina has.
SPEAKER_02:I love it. I know this is a little off script, but not not completely. I was hunting, uh you know, I've been on a grouse hunting escapade up here for three weeks, Montana Dakotas. Anyway, I was hunting my first day of Sharptail in Montana's with uh Nolan Huffman, huge successful guy in the Britney world, multiple you know, championships. And I learned more hunting with him about dogs than I did about grouse, and that's not a knock, we kill grouse, but but anyway, he said he used a term with me, Dr. Lobos, and it was called exercise-induced colitis. Sure. And I had never heard that term, but uh now I'm hunting every day, and I noticed, and I don't want to be too gross and graphic on the on the podcast. Hope you're not eating dinner, folks. But uh when my dogs are hunting, just like today, I'd hunted all morning up here for rough grouse. Uh you know, my dogs are I don't know anybody what taking a bathroom break and it's not peeing a lot.
SPEAKER_00:Yep.
SPEAKER_02:So explain that to me. I I want to and I'm I'm and also I'm using a product that you guys sell to help that and it's working, and we'll talk about that. But explain exercise-induced colitis.
SPEAKER_00:Sure. Yeah, so um that's one of the kind of cool things um I would say about Purina is we have we don't do any invasive research. So it's not like we infect dogs with different, you know, parasites and see how nutrition can help that or anything like that. So we really have to work on getting creative with how we research uh and do research to prove what we want our diets or our supplements to do. Um, and that's the beauty of exercise is it is a natural stressor. Uh so a couple of things 70 to 80 percent of a dog's immune system is related to their GI tract. So a healthy gut is super important for overall health. Um and that also than humans is it even more so than humans, or is it no, it's about it's about equivalent uh with humans. Yep, yep. Um and but exercise being a great kind of natural stressor for them. One, we can look at okay, how can we use nutrition to support their immune system while they're exercising or getting stressed? Um, and then also when they're exercising, it is stress also causes, you know, it uh little messages to go to the GI tract and then starts, you know, more contractions, faster contractions of those intestines. They're also, if you kind of think about if you, you know, if you watch them run or jump or twist and turn, especially, you know, if you're up there in the in the grouse woods, um there's a lot of like juking and all of this that that is happening. They're not like you know, like a greyhound that is just running straight. Um, and so if their intestines inside are kind of getting all shaken up, almost like being in a little bit of a, you know, one of those um blender, little hand blenders that you put if you make a protein shake or something, and that's what's happening to their intestines. And so all of that kind of jiggling around also causes that irritation in their large intestine. So um it's not necessarily like, you know, it's it's not something they would necess need to be like hospitalized for, it's just a natural seg, you know, um, consequence of them exercising and running around like they are.
SPEAKER_02:Hello, this is Kenneth Whipp with Gun Dog Nation. Many people quickly become frustrated and confused when training the retriever. Cornerstone Gun Dog Academy's online courses eliminate all the guesswork by giving you a proven training system that will help you train a dog that anyone will be proud to have in their blind. Learn where to start, what to do next, and what to do when problems arise. Visit Cornerstone Gun Dog Academy.com to learn how you can train your retriever. I have used this method myself. I have been through it a couple times with different dogs. I refer back to it lots of times when I'm trying to get dogs freshen back up for hunt test season. I highly recommend them. I have actually been a subscribed member of Cornerstone Gun Dog Academy since 2016, and I would suggest anyone use it. I highly recommend it. They have an app that you can get to on your phone. You can do it from your phone, your laptop. You can't get any more convenient than that. I I've used it, it's proven and tried, and I know literally hundreds of people that have done the same thing that I've talked to. Visit Cornerstone Gun Dog Academy.com and learn how to train your own retriever. Hello, this is Kenneth Witt, and Gun Dog Nation is proud to have one of their sponsors as Retriever Training Supply based in Alabama. Retriever Training Supply offers fast shipping on quality gear. Your dog will love it. Visit Retriever Training Supply.com to purchase gear to help you train your retriever. Listen, they have some of the best leases I've ever found. It's stuff's made in America. Their leases are and they source them locally. They have anything you want, fast, friendly service, fast shipping, just good people. Retriever training supply. Well, that that makes a lot of sense. And now that you put it that way, because I the first thing I thought you said that is the stressor. Well, my dogs don't act stress, they act like they're having a time of their life. But they are, especially here, as opposed to like in Montana, they're running a prairie, but here they're jumping logs, and and uh it's very challenging terrain.
SPEAKER_01:Yeah.
SPEAKER_02:And that makes a lot of sense. But but they act happy, they don't act sick, they eat fine.
SPEAKER_00:Yeah, so it's a difference. So there's kind of like there's kind of two kinds of stresses. There's a psychological stressor and a physical stress stressor. Um so that you know, the exercise is a physical stressor. Sometimes it can be a little psychological as well. But you know, and and then you think of things like, you know, some dogs will be not as much in our in our hunting dogs, but certainly um dogs can be noise phobic or you know, have separation anxiety and things of that nature. And that's more of like that's you know, that psychological stressor versus a physical stressor.
SPEAKER_02:Okay. That that's good. And you know, like um, so what I've used, this is a we we're both are, you know, I'm a fan of piranha, you know that too.
SPEAKER_01:And um appreciate that.
SPEAKER_02:Yes. Uh so I I just finally started using Fortafina. For Florida Flora, Forta Flora online. So uh and I'm I'm telling you folks, this is not a commercial advertisement, and yes, I am as a disclaimer, I am sponsored by one of my sponsors is Purina, but I will tell you something. I can prove in one day the difference in my dogs because we're traveling, we're we're in dog trailer, we're in trucks, we're in woods, and they're getting stressed pretty good. I rotate dogs, you know, every other day and let them rest a day. Uh but that stuff is a miracle drug, Doctor. I mean, it it's I've never seen I've given dogs, and you're gonna hate me for this. I've given them human imodium, you know, anything. I've been so desperate. But that is the single most effective tablet. I I use the tablets, I don't like the little powder stuff, and that's just me. Uh tablets are easier, my dogs eat them, they love them. Tell us about that because it's I I just know on what comes out and that I see the results and it works. And it's the best thing I've ever used.
SPEAKER_00:Well, thank you. I um I had no idea that we launched this in 2006. Um, so it's, you know, we're coming up on 20 years of Fortaflora being on the market, which is kind of insane. Um, but it is the number one veterinary recommended probiotic. It is the number one researched probiotic. So we have as we have more published papers um than any other probiotic that's out there on the market, um, which again is so important because in the world of supplements, um, it is almost like the wild, wild west. Like, pretty much the only thing you have to do as a if you want to like if you and I wanted to get together and launch a supplement tomorrow, we just have to basically, you know, shoot an email to the FDA and say, hey, we're launching this, and then we just go for it. There's no like you have to prove what's inside matches what's on the label. There's you don't have to prove any of the claims that you put on the package, anything like that. So whether, you know, whether you're choosing Fortiflora or you're choosing some other supplement, you know, making sure that you do your due diligence on, you know, uh what kind of third-party guarantee analysis, whatever is happening, um, to prove, again, that those what's on the label matches what's what's inside there. But um, I mean, I there's so many great applications for Fortiflora. Um, and that's why it does have so much research behind it. But a lot of it is um, you know, it's around supporting the immune system. So um I know you just added a little addition to your household.
SPEAKER_02:Um, and yes, that's a question too.
SPEAKER_00:Yeah.
SPEAKER_02:I never even thought about puppy use because I'm so worried about my big hunting dogs getting digestive problems. Sure. So tell me about that too.
SPEAKER_00:Yeah, so we've got um a really great study looking at how it helps um their response to their vaccines. So things like the canine distemper parvo lepto vaccine, um, when they are supplemented with fortiflora. We looked at canine the canine distemper vaccine specifically, and it helps to keep their antibody level at that protective level. So you probably, you know, you've probably taken Dallas in for like multiple rounds of vaccines. He's got to get his boosters every three weeks, and that's because the the body's uh ability to make those antibodies goes up and then it comes back down a little bit. And so you boost them so that it comes back up again until their body learns this is the level, that protective level that I need. Well, when we give them fortiflora, that helps to decrease the dip after they get their first vaccination. So it helps them to keep that little bit of a higher level of antibodies in there for them. Um, so I love it. Like when I brought Journey, uh my griff, when we got her as a puppy, started her on fortiflora right away. One from because you know, they're puppies and they get into all kinds of things. Um, and two to just knowing that it was going to help to support her immune system as she's getting her vaccines and getting acquainted with the rest of the world. Um, so that's a great application for it.
SPEAKER_02:That was worth the podcast. I didn't know about the puppy usage, and I wasn't sure. I didn't read what without reading glasses, I don't hardly read any kind of ingredient much, but uh I'm glad so yeah, I'll start giving it to her. Should I do one tablet? Is that too much for her?
SPEAKER_00:No, it's it's basically like a you know, like a vaccine dose where you know she gets the same amount as your other um pups do when she gets her, you know, her distemper booster. Um so same thing for Fortaflora. Yep.
SPEAKER_02:Well, I'll I'll give you, you're probably gonna cringe again. I'm gonna give you my Hillbilly veterinary medicine I was doing before I got Fortiflora. So what I would do is I'd either get Kiefir milk with probiotics, I'd try to get the least sugar and no flavor if I could, or I would get probiotic yogurt with no sugar, unflavored, whatever, you know. And uh I would I when I had dog issues and I was traveling, I was giving my dogs, matter of fact, I had some in my cooler, I was giving my dogs that. Yeah, and you know, I whether it worked or not, I'm not real sure. Maybe it slowly did, but I I'm telling you that the fortiflora, the next day, there was a huge change within two days, it was normal again. Yeah, and I've and I've proven that on three dogs that I have with me. So yeah.
SPEAKER_00:Yeah, yeah, and that's also because like when we look at the the concentration of fortiflora, so like the number of the good bacteria, that enterococcus spacium SF68 is its proper name. Um, but when we look at the concentration of that in that either one little tablet or one packet in comparison to what's in yogurt or kefir, you'd have to give them. Uh, one of our researchers was like, they'd have to eat almost a quart of yogurt to get the same concentration. And then me as on the veterinary side, I'm like, oh my gosh, like that might counteract what you're trying to do.
SPEAKER_02:Yeah, yeah, well the dairy. Yeah. And and I just I was just desperate, you know, sometimes. Uh, but now I'm so like I said, I feel like I've discovered the fountain of youth for dogs, at least the for their intestines. But it's it's I'm a believer. Uh uh now I just need more of it.
unknown:Yeah.
SPEAKER_02:The other thing y'all have that I'm getting ready to I want to start using, and I I have it yet. Uh I'm ashamed to say, but y'all also do a joint care supplement that I thought would be really great. Because my dogs are running. You look, you're an athlete, you know that, and and you have athletic dogs. And if you watch these pointers and in my Brittany and my labs, I mean, these dogs work hard. And it has to be tolling on their body. I'm sore. You know, and they're covering when I do four miles, they're covering about 12.
SPEAKER_00:So yeah, yeah, yeah. I'm a big proponent of you know, of joint care and and real or a joint supplement. I love, you know, there are some great companies out there again that do good quality control, quality assurance, safety, all of that. Um, and you know, I started when we launched our joint care, I think it was about two years ago, um, I switched my guys over because I'm like, if I'm gonna, if I'm talking about it and and promoting it, like I need to make sure it's doing um what it needs to do in my own dogs. And um, you know, Finn is my yellow lab, he'll be 11 in January. Um, and switching him over, I noticed no difference in his mobility or anything like that journey. I started her on that joint care when when she came home. Um, and namely because of the same thing of like, we don't have in veterinary medicine, we don't have any good research that's like, oh, if you give them a joint supplement by the time, you know, when they're puppies, by the time they're 10, you've reduced their arthritis by X amount. We we just don't have any of those studies. But when we look at kind of setting the fact that the joint is a very enclosed area, so it's like once there's inflammation in there, it's just this smoldering little fire that's there. So, you know, they take, they miss uh, you know, calculate what it needs to jump over that log, or they twist something or tweak something, um, and it starts that little fire kind of smoldering. And if we start them, you know, just from kind of like a physiological standpoint, if we have if they have the tools they need in their joint to help dampen that fire down, then maybe that you know tweak is not as severe and it gives them a little bit of a faster return to normal. Um, so I'm I'm also a big fan of starting the puppies on uh, you know, on a joint care supplement as well.
SPEAKER_02:Hello, this is Kenneth Witt with Gun Dog Nation, and I've got to tell you guys about something that I've gotten hooked on lately. It's Folicious. These are gourmet instant faux and ramen bowls that actually taste like the real deal. When I'm out in the field all day, and the last thing I want is a sale for bland camp food. Fo licious is what I go to. It's authentic, the flavor, it's real ingredients, it's ready in just minutes. It's perfect for hunters, fishmen, or anyone on the go. And you can get them over 1900 Walmarts nationwide, your local HEB here in Texas. Or you can just go online at Folicious.com. Trust me, once you try it, you'll keep a few stocked in in your bag, your pack pack, or for your next adventure. I just want to say this, I want to add this to this commercial because I know the owners of this company. They've hunted on my ranch. Joseph, uh he and Iowa actually met in Colorado on a hunting trip uh that was a real adventure. They are true hunters. They've hunted the ranch, you know, and I've I've hunted with them. And Anna, she is just amazing. She's the one that came up with this idea. They were both on Shark Tank. They are amazing people. So it's I love seeing people like this have a business. And I just had to say that in addition to the commercial because I really believe in the product and I believe in the people that made the product. Be sure and go to Folicious.com or go to Walmart or H E B and try their product. I promise you you will like it. Okay, I was gonna ask you that. So, okay, that's good to know. So there's no such thing as too early, really.
SPEAKER_00:Correct. Yep. I'm assuming once they're weaned and stuff, but yeah, yeah, once they're once they're eating solid food, yes.
SPEAKER_02:Okay, the next thing I really want you to to ex to expound on and talk about, you know, I've obviously I've had we I've had veterinarians on here about certain diseases, uh, and but the one thing I really like that that you do is it and I want to know about it. I I'm acting like I know about it. I don't. I just I know what acupuncture is. Yeah I've actually had it, and I know, you know, and I know that you do rehab. Could you talk about that? Because that's that's something I'd say most of us gun dog folks probably don't have our you know lab or our coon hound taken for acupuncture.
SPEAKER_00:Right, right. Um, and yeah, I mean, I one of the things like, you know, as an athlete myself, I know how important it is. And I think as upland hunters, we are all whether whether we're year round athletes or we're, you know, three or four months out of the year, we are putting our bodies through some crazy. Stuff, you know, like side hilling for duskies and jumping over logs for grouse and chuckers on a whole different level of you know rocky terrain and and uh things of that nature. So, you know, from a human standpoint, we know what soreness feels like. We know how it affects our ability to either, you know, lift our gun or carry our vest or you know, those sorts of things. And it's the same for our sporting dogs. And if we can help, you know, there's kind of a couple of my passion points are certainly keeping our dogs lean. That's not as big of an issue in the sporting dog world as it is in the general pop um of dogs. But I have I've hunted behind some overweight dogs, and we've had to cut the hunt short because of their lack of endurance. Um, but I know like keeping your dog lean and then also supporting them from you know an overall body health standpoint. And that's where um that's honestly what led me. I've I've suffered several orthopedic injuries myself and knowing how important rehab and then the benefits of acupuncture have been. Like, I'm like, well, like why are our dogs any different? Like, I want to learn how I can support whether it's my running buddy or my hunting buddy, you know, in that way as well. Um, and so it can be, I mean, one of the crazy things about acupuncture is how long it has been around. I mean, we're talking thousands of years before we had all of this technology and understanding of anatomy and where, you know, nerves and blood vessels and all of that run, the Chinese were starting to practice this and like having really good results. And I'm also the mindset of like, if it's been around for thousands of years, it can't be all hocus pocus. Um, you know, so and we are now on the veterinary side. It started um more on the horse side of things, so more on the equine side.
SPEAKER_02:Yeah, yes, being from Kentucky, I actually did know that there was acupuncture for horses.
SPEAKER_00:Sure, yeah. And then so the small animal side is is kind of been lingering behind, but we're actually getting some really good published research. There's starting to be a blend of that Eastern medicine where it originated with the Western medicine. And so, like, I'm certified in what they call um medical acupuncture. So it's really very um related to where there are nerve endings that reach the skin surface that then travel back, um, and then also addressing pain. But I mean, we I've used acupuncture for in dogs and a few cats for everything from certainly pain and mobility to anxiety. To um, I'm I had a French bulldog previously in my life, and um he ate something that lodged in his intestines that we had to go and do surgery and remove. Um, and then his intestines weren't working. Um, and so went in and did acupuncture to help to stimulate his intestines to start moving along again. Um, so it has a whole range of applications. Um, but certainly as it relates, you know, to our sporting dogs, a lot of, you know, mobility and you know, as they age, you know, Finn, my labrador, he gets uh he gets acupuncture even in the off season uh, you know, a couple of times um a month just to make sure he's keeping feeling good. Um and then on the flip, you know, on the complimentary side of that with the rehab, um, oftentimes we think about that as like getting back from injury. But uh, you know, like you mentioned, you've been out there in the in the grousewoods um and they're jumping over things and twisting and turning. So our dogs are not running in a linear fashion. And so doing some exercises to help to keep their core strong, to help to keep their glutes and their hamstrings and all of that as we're getting either into the season and as we continue, um, is gonna be really important in keeping their hunting career as long as possible.
SPEAKER_02:I like that. So I know it's this question is too much to probably even touch on on the podcast, but I guess the 30,000 foot view, what does acupuncture actually do? I've actually had it done before. Me, yeah, I I think it's the VA clinic, believe it or not. But what is how does it let's just I know it does different things, but for pain, what does it do? How does it help relieve pain?
SPEAKER_00:Yeah, so it can be everything from um, you know, when you put the needle into the skin, um, there's actually when it's in the right places, um, can have like an endorphin release for them. So it also can help to increase blood flow to that spot so we can bring some of those pain-relieving neurotransmitters, which are basically like little Twitter messages to the body to be calming things down in that space. And if, you know, if we're putting it where like there's a nerve ending that comes up, then that that you know, that message can go up the chain and put out the you know, kind of the pain signaler that's further up in that direction. Um, we can also use it. Sometimes I do a blend of like acupuncture, and then if you've ever had dry needling done, where they'll find like a knot in your muscle and they'll stick a needle in there and it'll cause the muscle to just kind of relax and stretch out. Um, so that's that's not acupuncture, but oftentimes we use acupuncture needles to help to facilitate that.
SPEAKER_02:That's so interesting. You know, I can I can at least say that the acupuncture I had worked, it helped. Yeah, it definitely helped. And I'd I'd I've I'd actually I'm open-minded, I'd do it again. Uh but you know, I just so two weekends ago while uh sharp tailed grouse hunting in in North Dakota, I spent half a Saturday in the emergency room. Oh no, I hunted all day, my knee was swollen just crazy, it was killing me. I'd I'd it's just where I'd been went from the couch to you know, walking 17,000 steps a day in terrain. And uh, you know, I I told a nurse, I said, Hey, I'm not here for pain pills, I don't do pain medications, give me a cortisone shot, please, in my knee. And uh, maybe I need to do some acupuncture on my knee. But anyway, uh I wrapped it up, Iced it down, and I was out the next day. It's still killing me.
SPEAKER_01:Yeah, yeah.
SPEAKER_02:So now you do you still, I know you still have a clinic, you still actively practice veterinary medicine, you're not just at Purina. Do you do acupuncture and rehab at your clinic? Is that your main thing?
SPEAKER_01:Yeah, yeah.
SPEAKER_02:Now you were you were gonna say, and I may have got you off in another direction, but I thought you were heading towards that to rehab dogs pre-injury.
SPEAKER_00:Yes, yeah.
SPEAKER_02:Tell me about that.
SPEAKER_00:Yeah, so you know, it's one of the things um, you know, I try to try to talk to owners about, especially as we're like, you know, you're coming in, depending on where you live, right? Here, pheasant season doesn't open for another like five weeks, I think, six weeks, um, out in Colorado. And so you if your listeners are in Colorado, you still have time um to start to kind of do some things to easily get those strength exercises in. Because oftentimes I'll say things like that, and people are like, like they go to like in their head, like, well, I don't have agility equipment, and I can't like you know, take my dog, like leap, you know, what am I supposed to do? Make them do crunches and things like that. And it doesn't have to be super complicated. Um, you know, doing doggy squats is literally like just making them sit to stand. Um, and so I'm like, so have them do that, you know, five times before they eat, and then maybe five times before they you put them in the box in your truck to go train or something like that, just so you're starting to again get those muscles activated. Um, because they're, you know, their glutes and their hamstrings and and quads are also important um when they're out there running. Uh, and so let's get them activated and strengthen them before you know we're asking them to go twist and turn through pheasant fields and up and down mountains and things of that nature. Um, there's other like easy things, again, you can do. You can have them do like little figure eight courses in your backyard, which you don't have to use anything other than you know, uh a lawn chair, a can, something just for them to go around and and just that twisting and turning like that for them, similar to what they're doing when they're going around trees and things in the woods. So um, you know, those can be little simple things to start to build up before we're out, you know, doing the real thing during the season.
SPEAKER_02:Well, one of the things I think kind of relevant to the season, too, since we're on that note, Doctor, how would you uh recommend or what's your advice to a person that has a young dog or puppy? Uh obviously a bigger puppy, because or or an older pup, I should say, because as you know, if you've seen most of us, me included, hunters, we we're loading dogs either in the back of a truck or into a dog box, all which requires leaping, jumping out, you know. What's and I've probably made you cringe saying that, but what would you what's your advice? And maybe we shouldn't even do that at all, but what's your buy a ramp? I mean, what what's your advice?
SPEAKER_00:Yeah, that would be if I could tell uh sporting dog owners one thing about their dog is to please do not let them jump in and out of the back of the truck or the back of the box. Um, I've gotten some haters, I've said that before in other venues. Um, and then of course you get the haters who are like, I've let my dog do that for the last 13 years and he's fine. And I'm like, well, great, fantastic for you. Um, but you know, a couple of things. One, our dogs naturally bear 60% of their weight on their front end. Um, so that's just the way they're designed. It's not 50-50 between the front and the back. And so you're now you're taking and you're jumping down and you're having that 60% of the load is hitting the ground first with that gravity on top of it. Um, so there's that. And then there is a whole syndrome in veterinary medicine that we call jump down syndrome. And so the fact that in my profession and in this industry, we have created have a named syndrome around dogs jumping out of a truck, you know, out of the back of a truck, um should be enough evidence for folks to know that it's not good for the dogs. Um, what jump down syndrome is, is when they jump, you know, down, as it as the name indicates, there's little bones on what their ulna. So they're, you know, their elbow here, there's little bones that stick out on either side, which is where their radius, which is the other bone in their arm, sits into. It's kind of like their little notch that goes in there. And when the dogs jump down repeatedly, the little notches get broken off or can get broken off. And then those float around in the joint, similar to like the childhood fairy tale of the princess and the pea. Well, now you've got that little pea in the mattress in their elbow. Um, and elbow arthritis in dogs is so, so painful and can significantly shorten their career much more than when it's in their hips. Um, because again, they're bearing more of their weight on their front end. So now you've got something that hurts and it just is exacerbated because it's having to bear more of the weight and it's injured. Um, so that is my public service announcement to your listeners and viewers is please do not let your dogs jump out of the tailgate or the box.
SPEAKER_02:So I guess I was at I actually picked up the Britney at Ronnie Smith's and Susanna's, and they I noticed uh because we went out in the field, worked the dog, you know, and all that while I was there to get it. And um, but I noticed they use a ramp for everything. And a lot of the even the the dog trainers or pro trainers that show up at at the SRS, those guys all have ramps. I guess I need a ramp.
SPEAKER_00:You need a ramp.
unknown:Okay.
SPEAKER_00:For little Dallas, especially, she's got a clean slate right now.
SPEAKER_02:Well, I will say this in my little bit of a defense, not much, but I've never let pups and young dogs jump like that.
SPEAKER_01:Yeah.
SPEAKER_02:Ever. Because of their I knew their joints were developing, I thought, and I but uh But that's good. But the way you explain that, that makes perfect sense. And hey, I've got these dogs are you know they're athletes and I've got to take care of them. So yeah.
SPEAKER_01:Yeah, yeah.
SPEAKER_02:Uh well that's that's uh I learned something else. Uh this is going good. Um so now I've got to ask this question. Did you play in college at all?
SPEAKER_00:I did not. I did not. I was I really wanted to go to veterinary school. Um, so I set my sights on on that as my uh main driver for where I went to school. And I'll just suffice it to say that I was not good enough to play uh at LSU in the SEC.
SPEAKER_02:Yeah, yeah. I only think I was D3 material in high school, so uh that's me. I figured I'd better go to law school and do something.
SPEAKER_01:There you go.
SPEAKER_02:But no, um, so you I love this idea that you just recently, at your young age, got into honey.
SPEAKER_01:Yeah.
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SPEAKER_00:Yeah, so we moved um, so I spent a fair chunk of my life in Austin, Texas. We moved out here to Colorado um about seven-ish years ago, seven and a half years ago. Um, and that's you know, we're, you know, my husband a long time ago tried to get me into duck hunting um in Texas, where you know, the greatest time to go duck hunting is when it's raining and windy and like 40 degrees and you just sit. And I was like, that sounds like living hell. Like, why would I, if it is raining in 40, I'm either inside or if I'm out, I am like running around. I am not sitting still for anything. Um, so I really just didn't get into it. My family didn't hunt, so I didn't grow up with hunters, um, anything of that nature. And then when we moved out here, um, we were closer to Pheasant Land. And um he, you know, we had Finn, our yellow lab that we got from some friends when he was about two and a half because they didn't want him anymore, um, which is a concept I don't really understand, and we're not friends with them anymore. So, you know, but I'm so grateful that they didn't want him because he, you know, we all have that dog, I feel like, that like changed the trajectory of your life, and and that's what Finn was for me. Um, and so when we came out here, uh, my husband Dean was like, you know, I think you might like pheasant hunting. And um he's like, you're walking around, you know, yes, it's during the winter, but like you're still you're moving, it's you know, it's it's more uh active than sitting in a duck blind. And um, again, Finn have never been, he's still to this day, he's you know, has never been formally hunt trained. He just he's been obedience trained, which I feel like is, you know, like 90% of of what you need in a flusher. Um and so he could translate that and he just has just insane natural instinct and high drive. And like there's so much of me that wishes they had not neutered him because I would love to keep his genetics going. Um, but that ship sailed before we got him. Um, but so my husband started like he first went out duck hunting with Finn, and then when we moved out here, kind of took him out one time and like the whole the whole game of flushing pheasants just like clicked immediately. And he was like, Dean came back and he's like, I think you really might like this, and if nothing else, you should just see Finn do his thing out in the field. And like we drove out to western Kansas and um watched him, and I was like, oh my gosh. I was like, this is like the look in his eyes and his body language and all of it, what I'm like, this is exactly how like I feel when I'm out doing endurance sports. Like it's just like, oh, you're you know, that that genetic box is being checked, and you're so excited and so driven and like living your passion as cheesy as that sounds. And I'm like, I have to learn how to do this uh so that I can give Finn this gift in his life. Um, and if you know, it was 2020, so like Hunter Safety was online, it happened real quickly for me, thankfully. Um, we went down to Shields, I got a shotgun, and off we went. Um, and I I am really, you know, you mentioned it earlier about getting more females into this. Um, and that's again where um through some partnerships with Pheasants Forever and Women on the Wing, and you know, next week or next month, um going up to um the UP of Michigan for a women's learn to grouse hunt weekend and like starting to kind of um help to when for those women who are coming in to have that piece of like dog care um in their educational background as they're learning these skills um has also been just a really fun way to not only grow the female population in the hunting space, but then also make some really great friends in the process.
SPEAKER_02:Yes, and you know that's like I talked to you before the podcast, the ladies I the young ladies I had on here, and I've actually there's a big group of them, I've met a lot of them. One of them I actually knew uh her parents, uh, but uh they're they're just the closest friends, and they all met hunting, and now they're like inseparable and they live in different states, some of them. So I think it's great.
SPEAKER_01:Yes.
SPEAKER_02:Well, your husband did the right thing. I think pheasant hunting really got me uh uh hooked on upland hunting in general. I would be out here hunting. I grew up around grouse, some in a southeast Kentucky, you know, back in the 80s, we had some then, not now, but I didn't grouse hunt, squirrel, you know, I just squirrel hunting stuff, but there just weren't enough. But uh I think that's a great introduction to upland is pheasant. And he told you right. I mean, it's so much like me, I'm just I deer hunted for years. I'm just I don't know that I can sit still that long again. And I did it for years, yeah, and I'm too hyperactive. Uh something I'll mention here that we we might talk about a little bit uh even after the podcast, but uh uh you're talking about we're talking about ladies of all ages getting into hunting, but also I've got a podcast which may be out next week, but it's with Gordon Lee High School in Walker County, Georgia, right up right below the Tennessee border across from Chattanooga. Okay to my knowledge, it's the only gun dog team in high school in the United States, and they the kids go and compete in hunt test. So they I've just got a dog donated, a really well-bred Brittany pup that's gonna be donated to them. And I'm trying to get some other companies to like donate supplies and stuff to them. But these kids, I think most, and there's I think the ladies in there as successful as the guys, uh and I think it's about an even breakup of boys and girls competing in the on the team. And uh I think the maybe I please don't say this incorrectly, but the most the top competitor is a kid that grew up playing video games, never hunted, no hunting background in the family, indoor kid who played and now he's like a really, really good. I he's on the I have him on the podcast, can't think of his name to save my life right now, but because there was there's a few of them I had on there with the coach and the principal. But it was just so neat. Uh and I just had one come out this Tuesday with a guy named Ronnie Cowins with the University of Tennessee. He's on the staff of a professor in the natural resources department, I think. It's one of those departments at Tennessee, and and they have they provided funding to go out into the schools in this in the entire state of Tennessee and teach outdoor activities. Uh they're they've they're doing programs for outdoor activities, camping, and for dogs, hunting dogs.
SPEAKER_01:Wow.
SPEAKER_02:And they're having a big thing uh I couldn't attend because I'm out of town and outside of Knoxville, but uh it just came out today. If you get bored driving around, check it out. It's just really, but you know, I I like what you're doing. I uh you know, you obviously are doing a lot with Purina, but the women's hunting thing I think is amazing. I I've got two daughters. They're both called, you know, out of school and married, and one's a teacher, one works for the hospital, and I they just don't hunt, you know. I wish they would. But my one child, my redhead, is a animal lover, Ellie Mae, with every critter in the world, and and uh she doesn't believe in killing even a bug. I'm not lying. So, you know, I can't I don't want to talk around that. I mean, you know, that's her belief.
SPEAKER_01:So right, right. Yep.
SPEAKER_02:But anyway, um I I think we've got to do this to, you know, carry on our tradition.
SPEAKER_00:Yes, yeah, absolutely. And I, you know, I also have a 10-year-old human child, um, and he's been, you know, he's been walking the pheasant fields with us, you know. I mean, he since he was four and five years old, um, which has just been, you know, he started with nothing and then he carried his little Red Rider BB gun and now he has a pellet gun, and we're working on hunter safety um and talking about all of that. Um, but it is, you know, I love I love to have him come along. One, it can then be a family event and we don't have to worry about founding kid care. Um, and he's he's his own little endurance athlete himself. Um, but it is also then, you know, I mean, it's inspiring the next generation. And so I like I love what they're doing over there for the kids, you know, and and getting them interested and understanding. And and when you look at true, you know, the conservation aspect of things and and how important that is and how big hunters are in support of all of that, like it just, you know, it it it has to happen.
SPEAKER_02:I think it's great, you know, like like just like your son's perfect example. He he's learning the outdoors, he's learning about teamwork with a dog, yeah, and he's getting very much physical exercise, right? So it's it's a win-win. Uh and he's learning safety with a firearm, which is very important.
SPEAKER_00:Yep.
SPEAKER_02:But yeah, so well, that's interesting. Now, is that your only child?
SPEAKER_00:He is, yep.
SPEAKER_02:Okay, I've got two boys and two girls. I have one hunting child, and he's a University of Kentucky student. He's actually in forestry at Tennessee.
SPEAKER_00:Oh, cool. Very good.
SPEAKER_02:My oldest son's in law school.
SPEAKER_00:Followed in your footsteps in Tennessee.
SPEAKER_02:Let's hope he does not. Let's hope he's smarter than that. But no, he it I've got good kids. I'm blessed. Um, so what is there anything new coming out that that with Dr. Anlovos's uh multi-hats that you wear? Anything that we don't know.
SPEAKER_00:We do have some exciting stuff, probably more on the like everyday consumer side of things that are that are coming out, um, not necessarily focused directly in the sporting world. Um, other than I will say um we have some some cool stuff in the supplement space um that it can help with our with our dogs and especially our active dogs um and and support them even better. So I'll just I'll I'll leave that as a cliffhanger.
SPEAKER_02:Okay. Well, let's there's something else I want to be groundbreaking on my podcast today. We've never really, you know, we all talk about our dogs and we all when we refer to our dogs or our office hunting men and women, we all picture a dog that's two to seven or eight years old, really. That's what we're running daily hunting.
SPEAKER_01:Yep.
SPEAKER_02:But you do something, you you also work with senior dogs.
SPEAKER_01:Yep, yeah.
SPEAKER_02:And we don't talk, we don't really talk about that on here. And that's a very important because these dogs eventually will like you and I, we will all be seniors. I'm actually I might qualify. So uh, but tell us, I mean, what how should we, as hunters, as gun dog owners, or just pet owners in general, if you're listening on here and you're not a hunter, what should we do differently, or how should we treat our elder dogs different?
SPEAKER_00:Yeah, um, that's great. It's a great question, certainly near and dear to my heart, because as you said, like, yeah, they're they're they're in their prime of hunting for maybe four or five years, you know, if we're lucky, maybe six. Um, but I think a lot of like what we do in those years can set them up for an even longer uh athletic career with us. So, you know, some of the little things we already talked about as far as like keeping them lean and supporting their joints and not letting them jump in and out of the truck. Um, so but then as they do, you know, I'm I'm right on that cusp with Finn where I'm like, you know, he'll he's 11 in January. I know he doesn't have the same endurance. You know, when I did marathons three years ago, he was running my 20, my 22 milers with me, and then we'd go and you know, he'd we'd come back and he'd still want to play fetch in the backyard. Like now I'm like, he probably still could do those distances, but it's gonna blow him up for the next three days. And I'm like, that's that's not fair to him. That's not smart on my part. I'd like to play the long game. Um, you know, and then on the flip side of that, you know, I was talking with some folks actually at DUX, um, and they're like, yeah, I retire all my dogs at eight. It's like, even if they're still like, like, there's no physical reason, like, nope, they're done at eight. Um, and that to me, like that breaks my heart because I'm like, there's still oftentimes there's still a lot of hunt left in that dog. And and when we we have a responsibility when we choose them for their drive, for their breed characteristics and all of that, and then to just cut them off from that and not give them any opportunity to use those skills um elsewhere is not fair to them. Um, so what I, you know, I think this is an area still where, you know, as an industry, as a veterinary industry, we are still really trying to figure out like what is the best in class way to retire a sporting dog. Um, because we're, you know, there's that cusp now, like I was talking about with like Journey is coming up. She's now she's a griff, so she's a pointer, different kind of you know, hunting style, obviously. Um, and she's only a year and a half, so she's she's still trying to figure out the game. Um and then we but like with Finn is like transitioning out, I'm already at the point where I'm like, okay, Journey, you're gonna run with me this time, and Finn, you're gonna stay. And you know, and it's just the running aspects, that's not even hunting. Um, but working through making sure that we still have those outlets. So maybe, you know, like this season, we've already talked about like instead of Finn hunting day, you know, three days in a row when we go out to Kansas, it's like, okay, you're gonna hunt the morning, you'll rest the afternoon, maybe rest the more the next morning and hunt the following afternoon. So you get that 24-hour rest period in there, and you're you're hunting shorter segments. So they still get that opportunity to go, um, but it's just not as long, as hard, and as frequent as they did when they were four or five years old. Um you know, and then there's other things you can still do. Now, probably some of your listeners are gonna cringe a little bit, but that's okay because you've made me cringe. So All's fair. Like things like it's getting popular here, but like nose work or um, you know, things of that nature where they're it's competitive and they're going and they're, you know, they're using their noses still, but it's not taxing on their joints like it was um when they were actively hunting. So still trying to find some sort of niche other than holding the sofa down on a regular basis when they're senior dogs is so important for them.
SPEAKER_02:Hey, it's Kenneth Witt with the Gun Dog Nation podcast, and we are so proud to be partnered with the National Shoot to Retrieve Association, also known as Nastra. NASTRA has a common love for producing the best bird dogs possible. It's a great community that builds and bonds everlasting friendships. I've actually got to meet a lot of the NASA members who've taken me hunting and some other grouse hunting and stuff in different places. So I can honestly say I'm a member and I'm proud to be partnered with them. NASTRA hosts national and regional field trials that emphasize the working ability of bird dogs. They have been around for over 50 years. There's a reason that NASTR has been around that long. Please check them out at www.nstra.org and belong and support your local Nastra Club. They do have national and regional events, and it's a good place to help learn to be a better dog trainer, a better dog owner, and to compete with your bird dog. Thank you. Yes, and you know, like uh I just you made me think something, you know, we're talking about retiring dogs early and stuff, and I know breeders do that, and rightfully so. Yeah, but you know, I've had my very this podcast is probably like number sixty some episode, but my very first one, which is almost exactly a year ago tomorrow, that was released, was with Scott. This is a year old tomorrow. Hey, happy birthday. Uh so uh Scott Neenaber, he's a here on South Dakota, he has owns Neenaber Pheasant Ranch and he's been a pro guide for 40 years, I think. Something like it. It's a long time. Is he that old? Probably at least 35 years. So he, you know, some guides or some gun-dog owners, some of us probably get the a bad rap for you know that our dogs are just a tool. But I can tell you being around Scott and he helps some of my dogs, and I've been up there, the way he takes care of his dogs is uh is phenomenal. He treats them better than most people treat their own family. And he gives fish oil, he tries to find you know the right grade of fish oil with his Purinha Pro Plan that he uses. And anyway, the point I'm getting at, uh he had a dog that passed away, and I had hunted that dog two seasons, I think, and it was 13 years old the last time I hunted, and I would have never known it. So I almost feel like, and I I don't have the right answer, and I'm not trying to tell anyone else what to do, but maybe just use common sense, right? I mean, just like me, I I I I was a paratrooper in the military for a while, and and I used to mountain bike. If I try to do those things now, I'd be in traction, you know, with an oxygen mask. So use common sense, right? I just don't want to go out there and try to run a marathon tomorrow, I would die.
SPEAKER_00:Yeah, but yeah.
SPEAKER_02:Is that kind of the what you would suggest?
SPEAKER_00:I mean, oh yeah, I would, and and I and I but I and I would build on that in the sense of like it's not for our for our bird dogs, it doesn't have to be all or nothing. It doesn't have to be he's hunting, now he's not hunting, and he's just gonna sit on the sofa. Because I can guarantee you, like, they know when you start pulling all your hunting gear out, they know where you're going, they know what you're doing. Um, even probably before you even pull the stuff out. Like they're already on to you. Um, so you know, so to you know, we don't it unfortunately we don't have like um dog broadcasting jobs like they do for the NFL, where they like retire from being a star quarterback, now they're you know a commentator on ESPN. Um we don't have that for our sporting dogs yet, although maybe one day. Um, but you know, so that to help them to transition into that. So that's where things like nosework or you know, doing other things, having them get certified and being a therapy dog to go into the hospitals or giving them that purpose, because we do know that that significantly enhances their quality and can also affect their quantity of life if they have a purpose, just like people, you know, where they're like, as you're you know, as you're 85, you know, you're the people who are 85 and have a social network and have a regular schedule of doing things and going places are much healthier than the ones who sit in their house all day and you know watch you know the news 24 hours a day. Um so the same for our for our sporting dogs of like if they're going, if they're not able to hunt as hard every single day, multiple days in a row, space them out, shorten the segments, and then as they get to a point where they can't do that anymore, still having something besides just sitting on the sofa for them, you know, to engage their brain and still use all of the skills that they had when they were younger in just in a different way.
SPEAKER_02:So a lighter duty, lower impact activity, but an activity.
SPEAKER_01:Yes, exactly.
SPEAKER_02:You just made me think of something too, uh, because I I don't get to do it very often, but now that I'm I'm older and have joint pains, swimming, right? So if dogs could do swimming, I guess, especially labs, they love it. Yep, would maybe something to help condition them. I try to do that to condition my dogs a little bit in this in the summer for fall hunting season.
SPEAKER_00:Yeah.
SPEAKER_02:When it's too hot to do anything else, you know.
SPEAKER_00:Yeah, yeah, exactly. Well, one word of caution with our with our senior dogs in swimming is now they might look dorky, but having a life vest on them is probably best practice. Um, just to give them, if they just decide I am too tired to continue, they have that little bit of extra support for them, um, you know, just around uh around their little bodies.
SPEAKER_02:Okay. You know, I I my ranch is uh probably two and a half hours from Austin. I'm just north of Junction, Menard.
SPEAKER_01:Okay, yeah, yeah.
SPEAKER_02:So that's uh but anyway, but I'm getting ready to, you know, I'm I'm I'm totally deficient on here, but I'm I'm moving back close. I've been in Texas 13 years, so I'm moving to uh uh Gallatin, Tennessee outside of Nashville.
SPEAKER_00:Oh, nice.
SPEAKER_02:And uh my my family and my kids are still in Kentucky and my brothers are in Nashville, and so it's kind of a a little closer to home. I love Texas. I've absolutely loved living there, and uh I will miss it. But I'll I'll be doing a lot of hunting there and a lot of hunt tests and stuff out there.
SPEAKER_00:Sure, sure.
SPEAKER_02:So how did you lock it down there?
SPEAKER_00:Uh it was great, it really was. We had a good time. It was um we were just outside of downtown Austin, so we were within walking distance, but still in a nice, you know, little quiet neighborhood. And um probably they're saying the same thing here in Boulder where I'm like, but too many people were moving there. Um and we really we would always come out here to vacation. Um, and so it was like I just need to be near an airport for work. At the time I had an international role with Purina, so being close to Denver was an even better gig for me because you can get almost anywhere in the world nonstop from Denver. Um, so it was, you know, for us moving out here was was a nice thing, but I do I do miss a lot of aspects of Texas.
SPEAKER_02:I know you miss the barbecue in Mexican.
SPEAKER_00:And I miss H E B.
SPEAKER_02:Oh, don't you? Hey, so yes. Well, I was I got laid off one year in in Midland and uh from an oil company, and I decided to go home because I was I thought the oil was over since 2016. I thought it's the end of the oil, it's you know$20 a barrel. So uh I moved back to Hydden, Kentucky, where I'm from for a year, and then I went back to work out there. But the what I missed so bad, because I live in a rural town, Hydon is little tiny, we don't have Walmart, you know.
SPEAKER_01:Yeah, yeah.
SPEAKER_02:So was HEB. And I never thought who would miss a grocery store, but you said it. Yeah, that's the first thing I said when I left Texas. I was like, man, I miss H. And when I went back to Texas when I moved back to Midland, I actually I remember posting on Facebook, I took a picture of the jalapenos and H E B, you know, there's like a whole aisle.
SPEAKER_01:Right.
SPEAKER_02:So I'm up in Minnesota, I went to the store and I can't find any, you know, because it's just Texas, right?
SPEAKER_01:I mean, yeah, yeah, you gotta be there.
SPEAKER_02:But H E B is and I don't they need to sponsor me because I'm like, yeah, I think so. I'm the biggest lover of HEB uh grocery stores.
SPEAKER_00:I keep trying to, I I keep trying to convince them to like you know, have some sort of just one location. I'm like, we've got Buckeys now, so can't we have HEB? Like, you know, it has two buckies, yeah, just one.
SPEAKER_02:Yeah, and if they ever expanded, it would be crazy. So maybe this would reach up their corporate ladder, but right, yeah. Yes, it's just you know, and and I I I hate this is gonna you all make fun of me, but you know, I've always been like a name brand guy of groceries, like even my grandparents would have generic groceries, and I was like, I'm not, you know, no, no, I have to have craft mayonnaise and you know and uh Heinz ketchup I can't eat anything else. I will HEB is the only place, the only store that has their own brand, their brand is better than the name brand. Yeah, it's crazy, and it really is like everything they have is his HEB, and I'm the most named brand guy in the world, and I'll buy their brand because I think it's better. Right.
SPEAKER_00:Yeah, and they're just so good to their community, like that whole their employees, they take such good care of them. It is like the whole if if I ever left Purina, I I would find a way to go to HEV, I think.
SPEAKER_02:Well, on that note, I want to give you guys this, you know, prop, but Purina does so much for the hunting and sporting dog industry that it's insane. I'm I went to grouse camp this weekend in Wisconsin, saw your colleague Greg Blair there. Nice, and you know, Purina gave away these. We got everybody got a hat, a bag, some other stuff, and you all sponsored a lot of things that were going on there, the banquet. You know, y'all do so much for the community, the dog community, that it's in that you know, uh it just makes me it makes me proud that you guys sponsor me. And I was a nobody when y'all started sponsoring me, uh by the way. And I still am, but I was like completely just green out of the box with the podcast. And I'll never forget that, you know, and it's just because I was a dog guy, and the Purina person I talked to, Ray Voigt, uh knew that I was a dog guy and I was sincere about it. So the other thing I'm gonna plug you all, and I'm not, you know, uh y'all are responsible to me, so I'm not asking for anything. I'm just being honest. Is Purina hires people like you, people like Greg Blair, people like Ray Voigt, who are lifelong dog trained field trial hunters, some degree. They got you, you're a veterinarian, but you're an athlete, you know, you own dogs, you it it's it's the type of people on their staff that it's no wonder that they have such a good product and they've been in business so long.
SPEAKER_00:Yeah, yeah. I mean, I will tell you when I first took this job, you know, back in 2005, and I was interviewing, they're like, How long do you think you'll be with this company? You know, what how long do you think? And I was like, maybe three to five years. Uh like, how exciting can pet food be? And like, really? Um, and I, you know, I I have no plans on going anywhere, and 98% of the reason is because of the people and the true beliefs of the company. I mean, we, you know, we talk about your pet our passion, but it, I mean, we live and breed that through sponsoring things like Rough Grouse Society, your, you know, your podcast, Pheasants Forever, you know, all of that. Um, because we really do want to give more people the opportunity to do the things they love to do with their pets in the places and spaces that make sense for them. So that's, you know, I mean, that's the huge reason why we partner with you know with these conservation organizations, because it's like if the land's not there, we're not like doing the things we want, we want and love to do. So um, let's make this happen.
SPEAKER_02:And you know, and I also I don't want to take it too far to the edge and I don't try I try to discuss politics on here, but you know, to me, I'm sure it's kind of risky supporting hunting in this day and age when everyone's anti-everything. Yeah, so it's so nice to know that you all stick by the hunters and stick by the gun dog owners in the hunting industry. And it's it means a lot because there's a lot of organizations that are anti-everything, anti-whatever. So I love that. Um, so that's it. I never asked you that. What got you into Purina? What what what was it a headhunter, a friend? What how'd that happen?
SPEAKER_00:Um, well, I two kind of two factors. One, my dad was he's still alive, but was an entrepreneur when we were growing up, business owner. Um, one of the his philosophies was, you know, always go for the interview. If you get randomly asked, you know, have the conversation. Like what the you're, you know, the one thing you're gonna lose is the hour or 45 minutes or however long of your time, but who knows what that might lead to. So that was in my brain always as I was growing up. I was in practice for about two and a half years, two years or so, um, out over in Austin, Texas. And um, one of my classmates who worked who went right, who went from uh veterinary school and worked for Purina called me and he said, Hey, we're expanding our program that supports the veterinary schools. Um he's like, I'm sure you're not interested because you're, you know, you love your practice and um blah blah blah. But do you know anybody um who might be interested in joining Purina or interviewing for the job? Um, and I had just had this horrible day um at work and I was butting heads with the office manager. I'll save you all of the drama um associated with that. But I was like, dude, I don't even know what the position is, but like I'm I'm interested. And and so it literally was like the little my, you know, I heard my dad's little voice chirping in my ear, a phone call from my you know, former classmate, and interviewed, and um I'll never forget, I was actually in um in St. Louis for the interview on the night that Katrina hit in uh in Louisiana, and I was on the phone with my sister in Vatin Rouge, and you know, we were chatting, she's like, Are you nervous? blah, blah, blah. And I was like, I mean, I'm kind of nervous, but I'm really nervous about the hurricane that's about to hit y'all.
SPEAKER_01:And you're nervous.
SPEAKER_00:Yeah. I do a lot of pacing. Um, and uh, and you know, and she was like, it's you know, it's gonna be fine, it's not a big deal. Like we've lived through Andrew and other hurricanes, blah, blah, blah. Um, and I was like, I don't know. I just got a really bad feeling about this. Um, and then we all know what happened with Katrina. They were in Baton Rouge, so it wasn't as, you know, they weren't as severely affected. They got a lot of folks who had to move from New Orleans to Baton Rouge. But um, those two, like that is still so very seared into my brain as how when I when I transitioned into this Purina world and and the big changes that were happening outside of it as well.
SPEAKER_02:Purina Pro Plan. Here at Gundog Nation, we use Purina Pro Plan for our dogs. We actually use the Sport Performance Edition, which is 30% protein and 20% fat, the beef and bison. It contains glucosamine, omega-3s uh for their joints. It also contains uh amino acids for muscles and antioxidants. It also has probiotics that's guaranteed to have live probiotics in each serving. There's no artificial colors or flavors. We see the difference in our dogs, we see the difference in their coat, their performance, their endurance, and also in recovery. Be sure to use Purina Pro Plan Dog Food. The reputation speaks for itself. There's a reason that Purina has been around for such a long time. We suggest that you use it, and we are so proud to be sponsored by Purina Dog Food. When you're getting ready to go on your next hunting trip, make sure you pack the most efficient and reliable ammunition on the market. Myra Ammunition brings you the most diverse loads on the market. Myra's patented stacked load technology is the epitome of efficiency. Two shot sizes stack together to create the most diverse and efficient line of shot shells in the industry. It doesn't matter what flyaway, what state, or what the weather, the standard remains the same. At Myra, reliable loads that perform in any condition every single time. We're proud to have Myra Ammunition as a sponsor for Gundog Nation. That's a lot to take on. Has your role changed at Purina over this 20 years? You had several different roles, or what have they been?
SPEAKER_00:Yeah, yeah. So I did, I started on our on our veterinary diets line. So those that are only available, we call it the therapeutic line. Only your veterinarian can uh recommend them. So, like if your dog gets liver disease or kidney disease or your cat has diabetes, then they need to be on a special diet. So I worked a lot for about 12 years of my career on our veterinary side and you know, doing working with the vet schools and different funding of things and projects and lecturing at veterinary conferences and and things like that. And then actually transitioned over. We have a brand at Purina called the Purina Institute, where it is, it's kind of like the marketing arm of our RD. So it's all just science and research, and that's all we talk about. So we don't talk about ProPlan, we don't talk about Purina One, we just talk about science, um, which is really cool for veterinarians. Sometimes it's cool for the average consumer. Um, but it is, it was really that was when I had an international role. So I was doing a lot of traveling to different countries as we were kind of launching that brand and running our programs and events, so putting on conferences and events all around science. Um and then we have a brand that a lot of people don't know about in our portfolio that's called Merrick. And Merrick is um it's like an all-natural brand, has um, you know, focuses a lot on ingredients um and the importance of those in their, and they don't call them formulas, they call them recipes. Um, so I I kind of went from talking about science to really on the other side of things, um, kind of going more uh very consumer fluffy language. Um, and then I came back uh to the pro plan side about two and a half years ago. So um learn a number of different hats. It's fun.
SPEAKER_02:Well, I didn't know that y'all own Merrick.
SPEAKER_00:Yeah, yeah.
SPEAKER_02:That's a really good doll too, too. Yeah, yeah.
SPEAKER_01:I didn't know that.
SPEAKER_02:Uh I know people that use that. I just had no idea uh that that, yeah.
SPEAKER_00:Yeah, there's nothing in in your defense, there's nothing on the Merrick label that there's no checkerboard, there's no anything like that, and it's intentional, but yeah, we've owned them since I think 2012 or 2014.
SPEAKER_02:Yeah, see, I thought that was like, you know, kind of, and I'm not saying this in a critical way, but I thought it was like a boutique kind of yeah, yeah. Yeah, yeah. Oh, that's good. I I didn't know that, but I I knew I know people that really brag on that food.
SPEAKER_00:Yeah, well, and it was founded in in Hereford, Texas. So uh Garth Merrick in his kitchen, yeah.
SPEAKER_02:That's right. The person that it was another dog nerd like me was telling me some of that story. I just still didn't make that connection with you guys, but yeah. Uh interaction. So do you have you ever got into hunt tests or any kind of competitions with dogs yet in a hunting competition sports?
SPEAKER_00:Yeah, I I have not. I've I've attended, but it and I a member of Navda, but I've not uh delved into that world. But it it very much intrigues me.
SPEAKER_02:Yes. Um do you belong to any local, I know you're busy, but do you belong to any local training clubs like corner clubs, retriever clubs, or anything?
SPEAKER_00:Yeah, I don't at this at this current moment, but it's um it's also one of those things like as where it's a sl it's a slow burn, but it's they're like it's like okay, the more I get involved and the more I meet you know local folks around and um you know work with. Um they have a women on women on the wing chapter here. Um went to their banquets um last spring. I almost brought home a German short hair pointer puppy. That's a whole nother story um from the Salon Auction, or not from the live auction, I should say.
SPEAKER_02:Um you were bidden.
SPEAKER_00:Uh-huh. Uh-huh. Yeah. I may or may not have had an adult beverage or two. It were there's no video evidence.
SPEAKER_02:So that's easy to do. And they're a beautiful dog. I mean, I I've never owned a GSP, but I've hunted with one today with my friend, and he had one, and I had a pointer or English, and they're just a beautiful dog. Uh there's some great matter of fact, I'm gonna do a podcast here uh today or tomorrow with a big GSP person. Uh I've done standing stone kennel, but anyway, yes. So that's a little bad purchase.
SPEAKER_00:I mean, hey, no, no, but it was totally inappropriate. I'm like, we have a puppy right now, like I don't need to bring home another one. Um so yeah, so then what'd you say?
SPEAKER_02:Just a little impulse buying.
SPEAKER_00:I was like, this is all the things that I like talk about not doing, and I almost did it myself. See, we're we're human too, we're people too.
SPEAKER_02:Oh, yeah. I'm an all I have a Texas auctioneer license, and and I do I don't do a lot, just I do the Rocky Mountain Yoak Foundation.
SPEAKER_01:Okay.
SPEAKER_02:Uh auction in Midland, Texas, and it's always everybody's always drinking a lot. And you just get those auctioneers, that's your job. Get them emotions up, make them competitive, and you're an athlete, you know, so I know you're competitive. So you're you're you're the person I would hit the the hardest.
SPEAKER_00:Well, I just felt bad because nobody was bidding, and then I was like, Well, somebody's got to get this party started, and then no, no one else was bidding after that. And I was like, Oh my gosh.
SPEAKER_02:Who saw who put who saved you? Was there some other person that finally saved you?
SPEAKER_00:There was, yes, yeah. He also bought a lot of things at the live auction. So um I don't know how much he actually took home himself, or he just was a very big donor. But um, I did not need to go home with an eight-week-old German short hair pointer puppy.
SPEAKER_02:Yeah, I've I'm on a dog cut off right now from the wife. Yeah, no more dogs. I've got plenty and I love them all. Um, Doctor, I know you're very busy, and I'm so glad that you took the time out of your day to be on here. I know you got lots of things to do. Uh I'd like to get you back on again sometime. I'm gonna make you promise on the air that you're gonna do that.
SPEAKER_00:I I would love it. Game. I'm I'm all I'm game.
SPEAKER_02:Uh so before we go, you gotta tell me about the picture behind you.
SPEAKER_00:Oh that guy, so this was also a 2020 purchase um when when everybody, you know, was do it redoing their home office because we were all on lockdown. Um, and I was like, mine literally was like a desk I think I'd had since college that had moved like four times with me, and because I wasn't home a lot um and on a consistent basis. And so I was like, all right, fine, I'll redo, you know, I gotta make this place a little more comfortable and and homey. Um, and so this is actually just a home from home goods purchase. Like I went and I was looking around, and I think I walked by this that painting like five times and laughed every time I walked by it. And I was like, I just I have to have it, like it has to be in my office.
SPEAKER_02:So they say to purchase art, you gotta find something that you can't live without, right? That you just gotta do it.
SPEAKER_01:That's right.
SPEAKER_02:I I get it, I get it. Um well listen, thank you so much. Uh I will probably get to see a pheasant fest. Uh I'll have a booth there. And uh I don't know what else is coming up except hunting season.
SPEAKER_01:Right.
SPEAKER_02:But uh but I I drive I do drive going from Texas north and I hunt, I drive through Colorado to go to Montana.
SPEAKER_00:There you go. Yeah.
SPEAKER_02:So, and I guess you're gonna be hunting this fall, right? In pheasant season.
SPEAKER_00:I will, and tomorrow we're headed out, gonna just we're fortunate with about an hour from here go uh go chase some dusky grouse and see what we can find up, see if what uh journey can rustle up for us. And um, yeah, so it's been been lots of fun already.
SPEAKER_02:Well, good luck on that grouse. I'll tell you the sharp tails, you know, I had a lot of success. This rough grouse, I mean it's it's something. Uh yesterday pointed three, and time they get up, you know, it's uh it's like and they move, so your dog might be pointing like here, and the bird flushes up back behind you. Right and then by the time you get around and it's so thick right now because the leaves hasn't fallen. Sure, yeah, yeah. You know, you don't you just don't have a window to shoot. I shot three at three different birds and I I was I knew I was behind them. Yeah, uh it was fun, you know. But I want to shoot so my dog believes that they actually do exist. It's not like Sasquatch or something. Uh because he's just chasing a ghost, you know. Uh anyway, well, hey, I I'll never stop talking if I don't just stop because I I can talk all day. So I'll I'll stop. But anyway, thank you so much for being on here. Let's have you on again sometime. If you ever have anything that's dear to your heart, like a health topic or something, or maybe something that's just on the fringe or or that's an epidemic on the rise or something, holler at me and we'll you know love to cover it.
SPEAKER_01:Yeah, that's it.
SPEAKER_02:Or just public service stuff that you want to get out to to dog owners.
SPEAKER_00:Yeah, yeah. Like don't let them jump out of your tailgate.
SPEAKER_02:Yep. I'll have to go video myself buying a ramp. You know something? I just thought of something. Now I'm really hate me. I do have a dog ramp from Weather Tech because I had hernia surgery, and my my Doberman pup, who was pretty big, was afraid to jump in and out, so I always had to pick him up, put him in my truck. Yeah, and I wasn't allowed to pick up anything because I it was a pretty mysterious surgery. And uh, so I just taught him with you know with treats just led him up the ramp and loaded him, but I didn't bring it with me. So anyway, but you know, I just I'm just it's it's just habit. I've done it all my life, and but now you've got me thinking, I mean, I don't want to mess my dogs up, so yeah.
SPEAKER_01:There you go.
SPEAKER_02:And you know, I I didn't realize until I got into the retriever world and the competitive retriever world, these SRS dogs and field trail dogs, I mean, they get and hunting dogs too, but ACL tears and stuff all the time. Yeah. So I don't want that to happen to my dogs, and and uh plus that's that's a not cheap.
SPEAKER_00:No either. No, it's not.
SPEAKER_02:Anyway, well, I'm gonna let you go, I promise. Thank you so much for being on here. And if email wants to contact you, how would they do that? Or do you want to be contacted?
SPEAKER_00:Sure, yeah. They can uh they can follow me on at petvetruth Ann on Instagram. Um I'd re I'd make a an effort to respond to my DMs and all of that. So um follow along, you'll be entertained and maybe a little educated.
SPEAKER_02:I gotta tell you a quick story and I'll shut up. So the guy I'm hunting with up here in Minnesota, his name is Dean Putika. It's Finnish, and I'm sure I moved by that. And uh I was telling him earlier in the week, you know, we hunted. I said, I gotta cut out early Thursday, I'm gonna do a podcast. And he said, Who is it? Because he's a big listener. And I told him you're you. He said, Oh, I know who she is, and he'd seen you at one of their functions at something, Rough Grouse or something. And he said, Tell her to add me as a friend on Instagram or something, whatever it was, social media. And I thought, I'll never remember that. And the next day we hunted again the next day, and he said, You must have talked to her. I said, No, I didn't say anything. And you you accepted him. He's a super nice guy. Uh, but yeah, so he's a fan of yours.
SPEAKER_00:Well, thank you. Thank you. I appreciate that.
SPEAKER_02:All right. Well, hey, I promise I'm gonna let you go now, and thank you so much for being on here. It was a pleasure.
SPEAKER_00:Yeah, you're welcome.
SPEAKER_02:All right, see you later. Hello, this is Kenneth Witt with Gundog Nation. I'd like to encourage all you listeners and viewers on our YouTube channel to check out patreon.com forward slash gundognation. For$10 a month, you can become a member of our community and we'll have access to lots of stuff. Mainly we'll do a monthly forum, an open forum where you can ask me anything gun dog related and we'll learn from each other in the community. Should be a lot of fun each month. We will do that. So check it out. Patreon.com forward slash gundog.