Gundog Nation
A show to bring together gundog enthusiasts, trainers, and handlers with discussion focused on all breeds and styles of gundogs.
Gundog Nation
Chad Norpel and Scott Townsend - Inside NSTRA: Trials, Training, And Community That Builds Better Bird Dogs
#66 A great bird dog doesn’t happen by accident. We sit down with NSTRA president Scott Townsend and competitor Chad to unpack how a walking field trial can shape complete dogs—steady on birds, snappy on the retrieve, sharp in the wind, and polite around bracemates. If you’ve ever wondered what judges actually score, how backing decides tight finishes, or why a clean to-hand retrieve matters, this conversation maps the entire system from first entry to national events.
We dig into training you can use right away. Force fetch turns a reluctant pointer into a dependable retriever. Smart ground coverage beats mindless speed. Puppies need socialization and patience more than pressure, with first bird exposure around six months and formal breaking closer to a year. Safety gets real too: porcupine triage, what to keep in your truck, and how to trash-break before disaster. Field stories—long recoveries on wounded grouse, water retrieves you wouldn’t expect—show the standard in action.
We also talk breeding with clear eyes. Paper matters because it tracks what works, but the dog still has to prove it. Short hairs often bring consistency; pointers bring that explosive edge; the rare great ones in any breed teach you more than a pedigree can. Across AKC, NAVHDA, horseback, and NSTRA, the lesson is the same: different standards, shared pursuit of excellence, and plenty of room to learn from each other.
Thinking about competing? NSTRA’s mentor culture makes it easy to start: ride with a judge, try an amateur division, or use a free associate membership to get your feet wet. With 30 regions, 1,100+ trials, and five national events, there’s a place for every curious handler and every ambitious dog. Subscribe, share this with your training partner, and leave a review to help more bird dog folks find us. Then check your local region at nstra.org and come say hello at the next trial.
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I'm Kenneth Witt and welcome to Gun Dog Nation. Gun Dog Nation is much more than a podcast. It's a movement to build a community of people around the world that like to watch a well-trained dog do what it's bred to do. Also, we want to get our youth involved into the sport of gun dogs, whether it be hunting, sport, or competition. We want to build a community of people united to preserve our gun dog heritage and to be better gun dog owners. Tune in to each weekly episode and learn about training, dog health, wellness, and nutrition. We will also offer tips for hunting with dogs and for competition, uh, hunt tests, field trials, and other dog sports that involve gun dogs. Please go to our website, gundognation.com, and subscribe to our email list. We'll keep you informed weekly with podcasts that are coming out. We also will be providing newsletters with training tips and health tips for your dog. You can also go to patreon.com forward slash gundognation and become a member. There's different levels of membership on there. Just go check that out. Also, we'd like to thank Sean Brock for providing the music for this show. The introduction and the outro is Sean Brock. He played everything on there except the Banjoe by Scott Vest on the Dobro by Jerry Douglas. Sean is a neighbor of mine from over in Harlan, Kentucky. I'm just across the mountain in Hyden, Kentucky, and he's a super talented guy. But most of all, want you guys to check out the Creakers. They are also from Hyden, Kentucky. This is an up-and-coming bluegrass and country band, and these guys are hot. They're all over TikTok and YouTube. You will hear these guys because in a year or so that they will be on the radio. They are very talented. Their videos are going viral on the net. These boys are family. Two of the lead singers, one grew up with my daughter, and the other one is my cousin's son. So he's family. But check them out. Check out the creakers. Also, last but not least, if you want to buy a hat, koozie, t-shirt, or even gun dog supplies, go to shopgundognation.com and you can purchase any of those items. Thank you so much for listening. It's a privilege to have people that want to put up with me talking about dogs all the time. I actually enjoy what I do, and I'm so glad to have this opportunity. And thank you. Hey everybody, welcome back. It's Kenneth Whipp of the Gundog Nation podcast. Uh, I've got some guys on here today. One I've not got to meet in person, but I want to because I have some of his I have a dog off of his sire that I really love. And I wouldn't have that dog wasn't for the other gentleman on here, Chad, that I've I got to hunt with and hang out with up North Dakota. But Chad and Scott, welcome to the Gundog Nation podcast. Scott, since you're uh you and I haven't officially met yet, I want to let you introduce yourself first.
SPEAKER_01:Uh yep, I'm Scott Townsend uh from uh Southeast Michigan. I'm the uh president of uh NSTRA.
SPEAKER_00:And tell for those that don't know, because there's probably a lot of people on here that may be interested in NSTRA. Tell us what that is.
SPEAKER_01:Uh NSTRA was uh it's a uh morning dog organization that was founded back in the 1970s. Uh it's it's uh designed to you know be run off of foot. Uh you know, electric kind of kind of starved by a group of guys that wanted to uh do something with their the running dogs in the off-season. And uh we started this uh organization and it just kind of snowballed from there and we're uh uh we are nationwide now, both US and Canada. Uh we have uh thirty different regions and uh we hold around eleven hundred trials a year.
SPEAKER_00:I had no idea y'all had to make trials.
SPEAKER_01:Yeah, yeah. We will along with we also have five national events that are held each year too.
SPEAKER_00:Now, Scarlet Hill just all over the United States or same areas, or how do you do the national trials?
SPEAKER_01:Uh we have we have two trials that are currently held in Amo, Indiana, which is just west of Indy. And then uh the other three trials are rotating trials and they do get moved around the country. Okay, we try to keep two of them. We try to keep two of them west of the Mississippi and one of them uh down in uh the southeast part of the country.
SPEAKER_00:What what part of the country, Scott, is the largest population of membership for your organization?
SPEAKER_01:Definitely the Midwest.
SPEAKER_00:Okay. And you think that's just due to the you know, there's more more bird hunting in the Midwest and especially upland bird hunting.
SPEAKER_01:Yeah, that that's probably got a lot to do with it. Uh we have a pretty good foothold down in the southeast too. Um you know, it's it it's right behind the Midwest, I would say, as far as members.
SPEAKER_00:Um I want you guys, you and Chad both, kind of educate me a little bit about the trial itself. What does it consist of? What are you testing the dogs for? What are you looking for?
SPEAKER_02:Well, typically with our stuff, you know, we we got several criteria that we we judge on, and you know, it's it's set up as 30-minute braces, and in 30 minutes we put out five birds each brace. And so you got two handlers, two dogs, and two judges judging those dogs. And so in 30 minutes, you know, you you typically want to go out and see who can find the most birds, but each one of those pieces of work is judged. So you're judged on uh your your find, of course, what you know, how your dog finds it. He's based zero to a hundred on that on score. And that's based off of many criteria as far as you know, his intensity. Did he hit it hard? Did he look good on it? Um, you know, negative factors, did he walk on it? Did he creep in on it? Did he, you know, do anything wrong? So you're kind of judged on a zero to one hundred score there based off a bunch of criteria. Then your uh next one is your retrieve. Did the dog go out there, you know, straight out, straight back? Was it snappy clean? Is he chomping on it? You know, did he deliver it right to hand or did he drop it? You know, and so that also is a zero to one hundred score. And then probably two of the biggest one, you know, they're all fairly important, but you know, some of the bigger stuff is uh zero to 75 is our ground coverage, you know, and that's you know, is the dog out there hunting smart and is he out there uh methodically hunting, or is he just out there running like a crazy dog, you know, and how much ground is he covering, you know, and why he's covering that ground, how thorough and how efficient is it, you know? And so that's a big one. And then of course, obedience, you know, we we want our dogs to be able to handle, you know, is like handler out there yelling and screaming at the dog the whole time and he's getting blown off, or when that handler whistles, is that dog responsive? You know, and and so your obedience score is based off that. But your other factors on that too is like it can go into your finds and your retrieves, you know, did that dog not do what it was supposed to do on the find or the retrieve? And, you know, that's an obedience issue. So, you know, you have have a ton of factors in there, and our judges, you know, have to look at a ton of stuff and make split decision, you know, choices sometimes or you know, judgment calls, and it can get kind of hairy sometimes. You know, we all think our dogs are the greatest in the field, and so, you know, sometimes it it gets pretty exciting with with that kind of stuff. And then last, um, backing. You know, backing is a big part of our stuff. So you got, you know, a zero to 75 score on backing, and and you know, and that's that that right there sometimes separates uh separates who comes out at the end of the day. And then on the national level, your dog has to demonstrate that it can back, you know, to win a national trial or a regional championship. So sometimes if they don't have that opportunity during the competition, we actually have to set up a backing situation to so they can demonstrate that they can do that and do it properly, you know. So there is quite a bit of stuff on there. And, you know, we try to hold our dogs to a pretty high standard, you know, with that. So there's a lot to be judged off. And it's kind of a whole dog package, you know. I, you know, I think our dogs, um, you know, they're just really based off a lot of criteria, and all those things have to meet up. And at the end of the day, you have 16 total braces, or you hope to have 16 total braces, so 32 dogs in that field. And at the end of the day, it's based off of how many points are are you know accumulated over your brace there and how many birds and whatnot you find. And at the end of the day, you know, that's how we determine who wins the weekend trials. And then those weekend trials, you know, they count towards other things, you know, like if you're placing on the weekend trial, then you're qualified for your regional championship. And, you know, and then that regional championship also, you know, goes into who's can go to the dog of the year competition and who can, you know, go to the trials of champions competitions, you know, the the the national events that we hold. So so we have qualifying rounds essentially and things like that that go along with it too. And so I think um, like Scott said, you know, right now we're sitting in about 2,400 members over 30 regions of the country plus central Canada. And then also, you know, we got anywhere between 11 to 1200 events throughout the year. So, I mean, it there's there's great opportunity for everybody. And, you know, it is a very uh competition-based organization, but the thing is, is um and it's just like extended family. I mean, you saw it when you came into our group, you know, when you got to visit North Dakota. It's you know, dog guys just welcome dog guys in, and the family camaraderie and the fellowship of it is what I enjoy the most. The competition and the dogs are why we're there. But you know, I don't think there's a single place in this country that I can't go and have a friend or somebody to go hunting with, or if I needed something, I can't make a phone call. So the tight end group and organization is is what I really uh what I really enjoy about the organization.
SPEAKER_00:Hello, this is Kenneth Whipp with Gun Dog Nation. Many people quickly become frustrated and confused when training the retriever. Cornerstone Gun Dog Academy's online courses eliminate all the guesswork by giving you a proven training system that will help you train a dog that anyone will be proud to have in their blind. Learn where to start, what to do next, and what to do when problems arise. Visit Cornerstone Gun Dog Academy.com to learn how you can train your retriever. I have used this method myself. I have been through it a couple times with different dogs. I refer back to it lots of times when I'm trying to get dogs fresh and back up for hunt test season. I highly recommend them. I have actually been a subscribed member of Cornerstone Gun Dog Academy since 2016, and I would suggest anyone use it. I highly recommend it. They have an app that you can get to on your phone. You can do it from your phone, your laptop. You can't get any more convenient than that. I I've used it, it's proven and tried, and I know literally hundreds of people that have done the same thing that I've talked to. Visit Cornerstone Gun Dog Academy.com and learn how to train your own retriever. Hello, this is Kenneth Witt, and Gun Dog Nation is proud to have one of their sponsors as Retriever Training Supply based in Alabama. Retriever Training Supply offers fast shipping on quality gear. Your dog will love it. Visit Retriever Training Supply.com to purchase gear to help you train your retriever. Listen, they have some of the best leases I've ever found. It's stuff's made in America. Their leases are and they source them locally. They have anything you want, fast, friendly service, fast shipping, just good people. Retriever Training Supply. Scott, we did meet, didn't we, at Pheasant Fest?
SPEAKER_01:Yes, sir. Yep. We met down there at the Pheasant Fest in uh Kansas City, right?
SPEAKER_00:Yeah. It just dawned on me while I was sitting here talking to you guys, and because I I got to meet Jimmy the for the the only time I've ever got to see him in person. I forgot that. I apologize. Um but no man, I uh so just this is a side note, it's not what I'm podcasting you guys about, but I got a brag on Doc. Uh you know, I had him in uh we've hunted all over the place. But I had him in Heartland Lodge last weekend, actually to a week ago today. And the the girl that's with me, that she's a guide there, and she's she knows her stuff. Her dad's got it there 25 years, she's got it there 10 years. And uh Kenzie Keller, anyway, she's got some great pictures. Hope y'all got to see them of Doc. Uh just excellent pictures. And uh so here's something, gentlemen. We're I want to get into the Nastra. I I want to get into uh Scott, you obviously are you know a world-class reader, and I'm gonna get into that stuff. But one of the things is an outsider looking in, because I'm new to the pointing dog world, as you guys know, which is why I think Chad had pity on me and gave me a dog that was trained so I could not destroy a puppy, um, and gave me a a heck of a deal that I've I've I hope I was I was afraid he'd back out of it by the time I got to North Dakota. But I had no idea that pointers, you know, I fooled retrievers. I know labs and and I've got a lot, you know, quite a bit of experience with labs. I had no idea that uh pointers would retrieve that well. I mean and and Chad hadn't sent me videos of doc retrieving in water, and I I just never thought that that was a something that that they did. Do y'all breed for that?
SPEAKER_01:Well you try to breed for it, but but oftentimes that doesn't uh it doesn't carry through in the in the genetics of a pointer. But uh, you know, it's kind of hit and miss. I mean some of them end up being natural retrievers, but most of it most of it is a trained retrieve uh that we teach our dogs to do. Um it's it's just a method of you know putting them through the uh process of you know teaching them how to retrieve. And uh I'm gonna say the problem is the majority of the dogs because we we're looking for such a clean retrieve uh straight out, straight back, no chomping, no rolling, you know, no uh dropping the bird. I shouldn't say there isn't. We do allow for that, but it's all a deduction, you know. So if you have a dog that doesn't have a perfect retrieve, it's not that you can't compete in this game. It's just that you that particular piece of work on the story. Well with uh most of these dogs are are are broke with a you know uh crane retrieve. Okay. I would even say I would even say like probably almost all the breeds are still put through that same process in our game.
SPEAKER_00:Okay.
SPEAKER_02:And Doc Doc was can he you know when we when we trained Doc, he was not a very strong retriever, and we forced broke him, and um and I mean now he's just a retrieving fool. And I would say typically, you know, in the English pointer breed, you know, correct me if I'm wrong, Scott, most of them are bred, you know, on the horseback side of things and and horseback trials, they really aren't and and the walking grouse cover dog stuff, they really aren't required to retrieve, you know, and they're just looking for that big run. And so I would say on the uh generally the English pointers are not very strong on their retrieves, and we do have to fine-tune those with the force retrieving, and uh, you know, Doc was and he took to it like crazy, and now that dog is a retrieving fool. Yeah, you know, yeah, uh go ahead, Ken.
SPEAKER_00:Go ahead, Scott. I'm sorry.
SPEAKER_01:No, sir, no. I w I wanted to what Chad is talking about is when he's talking about the horseback dogs and the uh the uh grouse dogs, we're running the same bloodlines and the same dogs that they are, you know, so that that genetic background you know isn't really a strong point in these dogs, so we end up having to teach our dogs to retrieve, but once once that dog's taught to retrieve, uh God, they make outstanding retrievers.
SPEAKER_00:Yeah. Well, you know, um I I I was real proud of this. I know I sent Chad a text, but I'd been grouse hunting, rough grouse hunting, did a couple a day or so a day in M Wisconsin, I did it for about five days in Minnesota and uh I finally got a good shot. You know, I I was just flushing them, hard to find. Anyway, long story is the last day I was there, I shot a woodcock and uh Doc retrieved it. Went on around and uh w what he had he was pointing some, but it was just difficult. You know, he's never been in those real thick woods. Uh the leaves are still on the trees. It was in September. And uh long story short, flushed a bird. He he we were walking and flushed a bird and I shot real fast. Thought I hit it. You know, you hunt a lot, you know if you kinda hit something. I thought maybe I got some pellets on it. And I walked about sixty yards in that direction, and I know that because I was using Doc's tracker and stuff, and but uh I came back out to the walking trail. I gave up. I thought there's an I just missed it, you know. And I was standing in the r in the walking trail and 123 yards out, Doc stopped. He was straight, he was straight ahead of me, and I couldn't see him. It's so thick in there, you couldn't see ten feet. And here he comes with that grouse. He brought it, he had found it, I'd wounded it, and he brought it back. I could not believe that. I mean, 121 yards. And I've I've I know it because of Garmin doesn't lie, but I just I've never seen anything like that. That is impressive.
SPEAKER_02:Yeah, that was pretty fun to get that text from you. I tell you what, uh, you know, when I delivered Doc over to you at the hotel when we hooked up, you know, I was kind of choked up. I was like, ah man, I don't know uh if I'm doing the right thing, getting rid of this dog, but then the conversations and just getting to know you, I was like, yeah, I I feel okay with this. And then, you know, you always have your doubts, you know, and and uh man, all the text messages and pictures and stuff you sent, like, you know, I haven't really been into the market of selling a lot of my dogs and stuff, and you know, and Scott's been good and took me under his wing and trying to help me find the next, you know, the the next good good dogs, you know. And so we we kind of shuffle through them and go through them. And, you know, I wasn't real sure about getting rid of Doc. I was kind of tearing on my heartstrings, you know. And then when uh, you know, getting to know you and hanging out, I felt much better about it. And I tell you what, it it makes me pretty proud. pictures on your on your Facebook page and website and stuff and that's just really kind of cool seeing you know all the hard work that you put into something you know other people seeing that and enjoying it and got it with that every time you send something up there it makes me feel pretty good.
SPEAKER_00:He I tell you this and it's funny Scott this is kind of a you know credit to you I was at the lodge at Heartland Lodge hunting with that lady and Doc was just burning it up and she's like man she has five dogs. She doesn't have an English pointer and she was like I he's making me want to go get an English pointer again so bad but she was in love with him. She said he has to be out of I said he's from real good bloodline. She said he has to be out of that crosswind stuff and I knew he was from Jimmy but I I didn't know the cross I'd forgotten the crosswind Kennel name because I I've got a lot I fool a lot of dogs that talk to so many people it's hard to keep track of all the lines and and I said I started telling him you know who you were and and where Chad was and this that and the other and she said no that has to be in that liver color you know I that's that's some of that stuff. And anyway when I got back home I you know I realized yeah that's where he's from but uh oh man he he's he's getting a lot of exposure here.
SPEAKER_02:Good deal that's that's great. And you know and back to NASCAR you know them Kentucky boys they're sure getting excited to meet you we were with them over in Amo Indiana the other day or a couple weeks back for the uh dog of the year competition and they were asking they're like when when's Kid gonna get over to Kentucky and run a trial with us have them look us up and I tell you what you get with them Kentucky boys you better have your boots pulled up and ready ready for that group I I'm home I'm a little bit homesick.
SPEAKER_00:I haven't been home and and Kentucky is home right for me even though Texas has been my home for 13 years and it's it we're a little bit delayed on our move and stuff and I we were hoping to have been moved by now and we're physically moved but I gotta I gotta get my dog stuff set up and that's the issue but uh but I'll yeah I'll be out there soon. No guys I know uh fooling with dogs since I was a kid and and all kinds of different breeds you know making a multi-time national champion doesn't happen overnight and it's not luck. Tell me tell me the ingredients what you've been doing.
SPEAKER_02:How many years you've been doing this Scott I think I started uh I think I joined shoot to retrieve back in like 1996 if I'm not mistaken somewhere right through there about 29 years yeah about 29 years ago I know that and I'm not that good at math but my daughter's born in 95 and she's 30 so it was just 2004 for me and I'm I'm nowhere even near a national champ yet I'm trying hard and Scott's been good enough to kind of help me along the way and teach me a lot of stuff but I'm a long way from that title yet but I sure enjoy it you know and our group in the midnorth region which is my I'm the president of the mid North region so I I get to represent North Dakota Minnesota and South Dakota and you know we've we've had a lot of fun you know we're getting a lot of good guys involved and stuff but it takes so much work and it takes an army of people you know and Scott's got a great kennel down there and he's got a good group of guys down there and there's constantly always somebody working on something and you know and that's kind of one nice thing about our organization too is a few years back we started a mentor program. So you don't have to show up to one of these events and and be intimidated and feel you know stressed out about it because we have the amateur division now and we also have the mentor program. So you know and everybody's really gotten on board with it. And so you show up there and just introduce yourself and the people you know find the president or the trial chairman of that that trial you know and they hook you up with the right people and they kind of take you under your wing and tell you kind of how the game's played and how to what to expect and stuff. And it takes a lot of stress out of it because when I was there when I first started that wasn't a program and the new guys are kind of looked at at it I at his you know kind of fresh meat you know and so but that that mentality's changed and you know it's really really becoming more and more about we all want to win but it's wanting to see everybody's dog do well and help each other out and stuff and I mean they're not a guy that I know in this stuff really I mean and especially in my region you know that ain't all about helping you know us bird dog guys we like to talk and lie to people how much we know and so it's it's always always fun you know and the the camaraderie of it is just outstanding.
SPEAKER_01:Well we know Jad I can do uh we've got a we've got a pretty good uh following of of females in the organization too uh anymore um like uh that are there are good dogs and uh you know some females come into the game and and they they don't you're uncomfortable shooting and and whatnot but uh again we uh we can provide money for the new people coming in and things like that too so um you know it's uh it's not something you gotta show up for and worry about can I do this I mean you know it's it's pretty easy to get into for competing and you know there's always someone there if it's be it a mentor or a gunner or you know something like that there's always someone there willing to help see I love that because you don't see that in a lot of organizations it in it it is intimidating.
SPEAKER_00:I've shown up at hunt test and I knew at it and I didn't really know what I was doing. But it's it's nice when people take you under their wing, mentor you make you feel comfortable and and I can say this before I go to my next question, but Chad you guys definitely gave me the the role treatment when I was up there hunting with y'all and I I I'm so thankful and appreciative of that uh you made me feel very welcome and you're all the whole crew was super nice to me.
SPEAKER_02:Well and that's what it's all about and you know and that's that's what I take away from this this organization the most is that right there and and it is it is that way everywhere and it really really is and you know the people in this organization is what makes it for me and um you know we all enjoy the dogs and good work and stuff but honest to God the people are what makes this and you know we go to our regional competitions during you know in our own areas and it's like a family reunion every weekend we get together we cook you know usually typically the way a day goes you know in the midnorth is Saturday we'll all get together and kind of or Friday night you know we the trial Saturday Sunday so Friday night we all get together and you know maybe barbecue at one somebody's camper or maybe go to a local tavern somewhere and just just have fun getting caught up and then you know saturday night typically well during the day we always provide lunches for the most part you know and then in the evenings most Saturdays we always get together for a for a family dinner you know hand out a word throw each other a little bit of flack you know and and uh just share stories of the day and so those are the best part about it for me I love getting together on the weekends with these guys it's like a family reunion and then when you go to the national level it's a whole nother step it's the guys you've been reading about for years in the magazines you're getting to see really good dogs at that point but it's the same feeling we get together for dinners we everybody's willing to help everybody and it it is it's just like another extended family family reunion. I mean I just absolutely love it and you know it it's it's full of a lot of colorful people it's full of people that you know from all status of life and I mean I mean just an example you know of what a group it is this last January I had the privilege of hunting Nevada for Chucker we were out in the Winnemucca area and uh something I've dreamed about forever and got invited by an Astra member out there. Well we're sitting out there four different members two flew in on private jets and two of us drug ourselves there in the pickups and we sat there for nine days hunting and just had the absolute best time just I mean couldn't have been happier couldn't have been just a better experience. And you know we all get talking about master and stuff and I had to stop us for a second to say you know what guys look at this we all come from different walks of life we're sitting at the table here eating together enjoying stories been hunting all day together and without this organization that never ever we would have never crossed paths with one another you know different social statuses different you know financial statuses but none of that matters not in the least bit we enjoyed the dogs we enjoyed the hunting and we enjoyed good whiskey together and it was just that there for me is the best part of this organization.
SPEAKER_00:I love that and I can like I said I I got a little taste of that just hanging out with you guys for the week you know that weekend I was up there and uh I know you're not just saying it I know that's really how y'all treat each other.
SPEAKER_02:Um weekend over I'm sorry as I was saying you even got to you even got to see our outreach here what just a couple weeks ago Ken was up in Canada hunting and I seen a picture on Facebook I'm back in America or back on the U.S. side I was like where are you at? And he he texted me and he he's and he's like I'm about an hour and a half away from you and I said man we're doing this veterans hunt for the veterans and it was mostly all Nastra members I take these guys out and guide. I said we're just cooking bar just cooking burgers and braz why didn't you get here he goes I'm on my way and so yeah he he hauled Bud and he ended up showing up at our banquet for the veterans hunt and jumped right in and I mean that is literally the epitome of what our organization is is you know what you got to experience there.
SPEAKER_00:So pretty cool man. Hey I it was perfect timing because I was starved to death I had been dropped you know Saskatchewan is no man's land uh there's you're a long way between cities and then you know when I crossed into North Dakota at the border there you know it's a long way before you find a place to eat and I was ready to eat. So that worked out guys I won't put you two dog men on the spot. Which pointer is your favorite the English or the GSP? Hello this is Kenneth Witt with Gundog Nation and I've got to tell you guys about something that I've gotten hooked on lately. It's Fauxus. These are gourmet instant faux and ramen bowls that actually taste like the real deal when I'm out in the field all day and the last thing I want is to sell for bland camp food fous is what I go to it's authentic with flavor it's real ingredients it's ready in just minutes it's perfect for hunters, fishmen or anyone on the go. And you can get them over 1900 Walmarts nationwide your local HEB here in Texas or you can just go online at full licious dot com.
SPEAKER_02:Trust me once you try it you'll keep a few stocked in in your bag your pack pack or for your next adventure I just want to say this I want to add this to this commercial because I know the owners of this company they've hunted on my ranch that uh Joseph uh he and I we actually met in Colorado on a hunting trip uh that was a real adventure they are true hunters they've hunted the ranch you know and I've I've hunted with them and Anna she is just amazing she's the one that came up with this idea they were both on shark tank they are amazing people so it's I love seeing people like this have a business and I just had to say that in addition to the commercial because I really believe in the product and I believe in the people that made the product be sure and go to Folishious.com or go to Walmart or H E B and try their product I promise you you will like it yeah I I I guess I don't have a favorite but it'll it would be one of those two I I like both of them I I've always liked the hound dogs in them you know uh to me I you know when the short hairs we run are the real fast ones so they're really I mean physically not a whole bunch of difference in them um are you know they'll they'll run side by side with each other uh and um carry a lot of endurance a lot of stamina a lot of uh style you know so to me I can run one or the other it doesn't matter I don't I neither one of them are my favorites I like both of them that's uh you know what what about you Chad Same well you know Scott he he he he he can't say a whole lot because he's got multiple national championships with both breeds so he he he got uh he on a whole nother level than us but you know I I have I've obvious actually all my dogs I've ever owned since I've played this game is actually come out of crosswind kennels and I started out with short hairs and I just I really feel you a short hair is more consistent you're more likely to get a good dog from you know I always tell people if you have a litter of 10 short hairs and a litter of 10 pointers 10 seven of the short hairs are going to turn out to be pretty good dogs and you know a couple of those English pointers are going to be the diamond in the rough so I think it's harder at least my my thoughts are it's harder to find that great English pointer than it is to get that great short hair but man when you find that when you find that great English pointer it's like holding onto a firecracker and it it is and you know every bird dog guy sees those pictures growing up in magazines with that beautiful pointer set or standing out there with that big tail and man you can't help just look at those muscled up pointers and that tail and just get excited you know so I I'm I'm both I really am and you know I'm like Scott I appreciate you know the good dog work and the good quality traits of every dog. I'm not really kennel blind by any means but if I'm gonna pick them it it's gonna be a short hair and English pointer and Scott and I we got a slew of them suckers right now so hopefully the next Jimmy is somewhere in the mix of those I tell you uh we were running two days we were run we were running two Jimmy pups today uh all day what was the damn of those what was the mother of those dogs?
SPEAKER_01:Uh black hawk uh bred dogs uh cross with Jimmy Nice I do you did you post any pictures of them yet of what you worked today?
SPEAKER_02:Nah today was a slow day hunting man we didn't really have anything worth pitch putting pictures on today it was it was cold and windy and man we just we I was laughing I said we seen more moose today than we seen pheasants today. It wasn't that bad but it was close we seen two incredibly big bull moose today when we were out running that was so cool.
SPEAKER_00:You know when I was hunting with you Chad and I've seen a lot of mule deer but it was way off in the distance but I I almost bet that that was the biggest mule deer I'd ever seen you remember that it was way off yeah I do yep that was that was right before we had to go into emergency mode on that Brittany wasn't it I need to tell that on this podcast so I Chad and it was was it Brian yeah yep Brian Horton I know them guys my life so Scott we were we were out hunting and we already got on one porcupine and then uh I felt pretty good because I just hunted three weeks earlier in Montana and uh my Britney and that's what we're talking about right now is my Britney got on a porcupine and but but before he got hit I got to hit it with a collar and I thought okay I broke it you know just like you'd trash break a dog and I so I didn't think I would have that happen again. And I was with a uh I was with the uh shoot uh oh gosh Neil no Neil Huffman uh Nolan Huffman you know who's yeah that's who was guiding me you know and I he felt like you know I probably got it perfect timing got it broke and then I hunted with Chad and him the very next week probably I hunted with Tom Nor Daphn's first we hunted down our mobridge at that at that reservation and then we Tom and I went and hunted with Chad in in North Dakota but um anyway every time now I know every time a dog gets around a bush look out. Uh and and Tom's dog or Chad's dog had already gotten in one I think but prior to that this we got into two that day but he didn't get in it and he just you got to it first. And uh anyway we get over to one and I didn't see it. Chad was up close and I think my dog actually tried to bite it. Is that right? Yeah but he he was destroyed just covered with quills all the way back in his back roof of his mouth and Brian and Chad immediately jerk out the hemostatic scissors or pliers whatever you want to call those things and and uh started taking them out. Chad got my dog on his back and got him kind of relaxed and then took my 550 plus garment and put it in his mouth to keep it open and man them guys look like a look like a mass unit in the military you know uh and if I if I had been for them two I'd probably be a thousand dollars r pourer from emergency vet bills on a Sunday but uh man I I'm first thing I saw when I saw Brian at the vet at the veterans dinner it's the first thing he said man thank you again because y'all saved my dog and saved and then of course Chad had medication and everything you know we we I got my dog he within four days he was back to normal but he he couldn't even hardly eat he was so sore for a day or two.
SPEAKER_02:Yeah those porcupines are nasty man I tell you what they're bad this year in North Dakota and uh that same dog that I had out with you last what was it I think Monday maybe Brian and I went down by the Theodore Roosevelt Badlands and we're hunting some sharp tail I kid you not not once but four porcupines that dog got into by the time I got back to my truck I was so stressed out Brian looked at me goes you ready to go for another hunt I said I'm ready to go home and get into the whiskey it's tough I mean you guys had a lot you you spent a long time working on my dog and uh man it just that's a part of that's a part of the game and when you hunt as much as we do because I mean we do we we we hunt so many days up here and we're so blessed to live where we do up here and have the access to the bird hunting we do and so we spend a tremendous amount of time out there. So you kind of come professional Professional level with uh porcupines and skunks up here.
SPEAKER_00:No, you guys were prepared. You taught me a good lesson. Like, you know, we have them here on this ranch. Uh I've had when it's breeding season for porcupines, you you do not let a dog out here, they'll be destroyed. They're worse at that time. But uh I I used to let my dogs roam loose on this ranch all the time, and I I can't anymore because I, you know, constantly taking it.
SPEAKER_02:I tell you what, it it is stressful because man, you uh you know, it's a few in the nose here and there, and you get that one dog like this one I'm working right now. I'm I'm scared for that dog because I think each time it gets worse. And, you know, a lot of dogs, one or two times, they're like, I don't want none of that. And then you got other ones that are convinced they're gonna win the battle, and you just you just worry, you know, is the next time then it'll be one in the eye or something, you know, bad. I've seen guys miss porcupine quills and you know, those things that got reverse barbs on them, so they'll actually work their way further in. And we had a guy that I know real good that I hunted with for years get one in his spine and the dog it missed it, and it worked its way into its spine and paralyzed the dog. You know, so they're bad news, man. You you if you have any opportunity to trash break one on them or find one, shoot it, and then work your dog, you know, drag it out into the open, work your dog on it, and just uh really try to trash break them. And nine out of ten dogs, they get it and they they they understand it, but you get those one knuckleheads every now and again that learn a little harder.
SPEAKER_00:Yeah, it they sure are tough. We uh we went to town a day that's why I was a little bit late getting started with you too, and was coming back, and there's one a big one hitting the road here. It was pretty good size. Um now if um what what would be your first of all, for people that are interested in Astra, where do they how can they go and sign up? Uh tell them, tell them, walk, walk everybody, walk somebody through it because hopefully this podcast encourages people to join and belong to the organization. Uh if they love hunt bird dogs and they love to hunt, I highly recommend it. But how how do you how do you join? Hey, it's Kenneth Whipp with the Gun Dog Nation podcast, and I'm very proud to have as a new sponsor Cable Gangs. That's built G-A-N-G-Z. Brendan Landry at Cable Gaines has developed, in my opinion, and I have, and I'm a customer, the best tile systems on the market. They're easy to pack, easy to store, they can call up just like an extension cord. They use premium galvanized steel cable coated with durable, UV resistant PVC coating. The branding can make custom products, anything you want that's related to a dog tile system or a cable system or a way to safely secure your dog. They've even made a system that works with a bicycle so you can go and exercise your bicycles and have your dog running along with you. It's it would be impossible for me to describe to you all the different custom applications they have, so just go to their website at cablegangs.com and check it out. They make dog tie outs a way to safely secure your dog. If you're at a field trial, a hunt test, cone hound competition, whatever that might be, these guys make the best product on the market. Check it out for yourself, cablegangs.com.
SPEAKER_01:You want that, Scott? Well uh each each region s uh I g I guess you would start by going to nstra.org. And uh we're in the process of of building a new website right now, uh, but the old one's still up and running. But in there, they have regions listed and you can click on that and it will bring up uh it'll bring up the region that you live in's information. Actually, you can click on any of the regions, but uh um it'll give it'll give the uh president of that region's uh contact info and so forth, and you can start there, or you can just sign up right to the uh the Nationals uh website. Uh either one, but uh yeah, that that info is all readily available on the website.
SPEAKER_02:Yeah, like Scott said, the the website currently is quite outdated. We have an on an incredible team right now, an IT team of mostly volunteer members that you know have that kind of experience. They're rebuilding that website right now, and the whole entire thing, and basically our whole entire organization is really gearing up towards being more welcoming to new members and being more explanatory and more uh inviting, I guess. And so the website that we currently have is you got to negotiate through it a little bit, but uh there's a section for forms you can find registrations, uh regions and stuff. So you got to spend a little extra time with it within a very short period of time. We're hoping in just the next couple of months, the new website. We got a sneak peek of it at the dog of the year, and it is totally geared more towards being more inviting, more explanatory, more helpful, and it's gonna be outstanding. But, you know, you always can get on the region stuff, and you know, it'll go in there, it'll tell you what those regions are, you know. Like for like me, it'll say I represent South Dakota, Minnesota, North Dakota, and and um as presidents, you know, it's our responsibility to take on that, you know, and and invite them people, educate them, hook them up with the right people and stuff. And currently, right now, Nastra actually too is doing a free associate membership for new members. So if you're interested in the organization, reach out to your region president and we'll hook you up. I mean, we it's I think that goes through, I think we were talking through July or February. I can't remember. We're definitely gonna push that through Pheasant Fest because we had so much success at Pheasant Fest. Uh, we're gonna have a booth both for my region, the mid-north, and for the national organization at Pheasant Fest. So come see us, we can hook you up, you know, get you the information you need and hook you up with the right people that you need for your region. But but yeah, definitely if you have any thoughts on that stuff, you know, up in the north country here, we're kind of on winter break, but there's they're going strong in the south, you know, right now with trials and stuff. And um, you know, Scott, his region has a trial going on right now in Michigan. And so there's still events going on all over the country. But yeah, take advantage of that. The best thing you can do is just look in there, figure out in your area if there's a trial going on, just show up. Don't worry about entering your dog that first time, you know. Show up. We'll put you in a side-by-side with a judge and take you out in the field and you can get firsthand look at it, you know, introduce you to the people that you're gonna be playing with. And uh it's a good experience just to come and get a feel for it and maybe take those nerves off. And by the end of that day, hopefully you're hooked up with the guy who's gonna mentor you when you do sign up next, or you feel a little more comfortable about the situation, because it is competition-based, and people are kind of intimidated by competition sometimes, but but it's it's so much more than that. It's the dog work, it's the people, it's perfecting your your dogs, you know. So yeah, definitely uh check out the website, taking full advantage of it, you know.
SPEAKER_01:Um yeah, you we also have it set up. Sorry, Ken. We we also have it set up to where you can actually show up at a at an event and uh and join right on the spot and uh just pay your membership dues and they'll they'll send it right in with the trial packet that they're uh they're putting on. But you know, it it's it's easier to join online, I guess, and and uh we have it all set up so we can pay electronically and things like that now uh for your membership. Memberships 75 bucks a year. Yep.
SPEAKER_02:Well there's two different levels of memberships. Yeah, um there's there's the full membership that's$75 a year, and with that you get other right, you know, other things, you know, voting rights for the organization, and you get uh a quarterly magazine and just a few little extra things is all. And then there's the associate membership that we're giving out for free. And I believe right now it's free, so it don't cost you anything, but otherwise I think it's like 25 bucks. But you know, it's it's nice to get that full membership and get that magazine and start kind of figuring out who the who's who's are, and you know, that list the magazine will have a list of all the regions and the trials going on and information that's more you know valuable to a person as you get get more into it and stuff. But yeah, it's it uh it can be imitated a little bit overwhelming at first, but you know, there is so many people that are willing to you know help you out, and it's it it it it's a good deal.
SPEAKER_00:Nice. Um, so I wanna I just sit here thinking, you know, I'm sitting here with some guys that have all this knowledge. I must I almost try to steal some knowledge off you guys. Scott, when you're looking for that next national champion puppy, obviously everybody looks at pedigrees and stuff, but uh y I I got a feeling you look past the paper. What do you look for?
SPEAKER_01:Well, uh yeah, I mean I I do start with with paper, I guess. I mean I I I want a good a dog with a good genetic background, not that that's absolutely uh a deal breaker. Um but uh I when I'm looking for one, I I I guess I I kind of buy a group of puppies and and I kind of go through 'em. You really don't in our game, pretty much any bird dog game, you really don't know what you have until they're about two years old, you know, and you've you've kind of put them through the process and and uh teach them how to play the game and then and then it's it's on them to go out and prove themselves, you know. So uh it's uh it's it's a little bit time consuming to to uh you know say this is the dog or that one's not, you know. There's there's some time invested there.
SPEAKER_00:Well, I want to ask you this. It's not really on the topic, but uh Tom Daphnis has uh his wife has a black female GSP. Did that come from you?
SPEAKER_02:No, that dog actually come from uh that comes out of some AKC horseback stuff and some uh a lot of that strong navda background, I think. That one, that one is not uh out of crosswind stuff. I don't remember what that's out of, though, but yeah, Yachty is that dog's name, and that's a beautiful dog.
SPEAKER_00:Yeah. That's what I was gonna say. That might be one of the prettiest dogs I've ever seen. Don't know, never seen it hunt or anything. And nobody knows it does anything.
SPEAKER_02:That's a nice dog. He just started running it in Nastra, and uh he ran it through the natural ability stuff of Navda first, and and um his wife did and did real well with it and stuff. And so, yeah, that's uh that's an outstanding little dog, and it's a pretty dog, but I don't remember what the bloodline of that that little girl is there.
SPEAKER_00:Now, Chad, all the stuff that all the GSPs that you and your group had, was it all crosswind stuff?
SPEAKER_02:Yeah, every bit of it. Eric's Eric's Maui dog, his older dog is uh is not that was just a dog he found in the newspaper and just happened to be that diamond in the rough and turned out to be a great dog. But he uh he actually bred that back to to Scott's uh crosswind lines. He went down there a couple years ago over Thanksgiving and spent Thanksgiving with Scott, I think, and uh bred Maui, and that's where he got that Freya dog, and that's where um Brian's dog, that rip dog that we hunted with came from. And so, but yeah, pretty much even well before I ever met Scott and became friends with Scott, I had crosswind dogs. You know, it's always been uh he's pretty he's pretty modest and pretty not um doesn't like to say much about it, but man. Everybody been running crosswind short hairs and nastures for the whole last 20 years or more, and and mine come out of it, mine started out of him before I ever even knew Scott and I knew the blood the crosswind name, but it uh that's all I've ever run. And I've tried some other, you know, I've tried a lot of different breeds and stuff and different things, and I just always fall back, um fall back down to the short hairs, and and I always had an urging to have a pointer, man. I always I always looked at those things like, man, I want to try to contain the firecracker. And and so a couple years ago I did, and then you know, several years ago, Scott and I became friends, and he um yeah, I went from one dog real quick to I don't even know how many dogs we own right now. And he goes, Man, you if you're gonna have the next national champion, you just gotta keep buying until you find them. And my wife hasn't quite quite got on board with that yet. But now she just looks out in the kennel and sees a different face out there and just shakes her head. Every time Peter and I get together, it seems like I got two or three different faces in the kennel.
SPEAKER_00:Yeah. I know. I won't talk about you there. It kind of takes one to know one. I have that problem. Um you know uh y'all, I I've for a long time I'd you know, I see a lot of GSPs online, and uh I'd followed a kennel that uh out of Kansas there and stone stone something others. It was a GSP kennel. I can't believe I've had them on my show before. Yeah, yeah. And uh and I just I I got to where I was really uh I almost started wanting a GSP, but did it's like something switched, and then I got real interested in the English pointer. And I guess it's cause that you know I grew up around friends. I had some really great coon hounds when I was growing up. They kind of remind me of a coon hound, but you got a bird dog, and uh but their athleticism I just really liked, and I like the fact that they're kind of heat more heat tolerant, and here in Texas, you know, that's that's handy, but but yeah, and and so I'm uh I I love them. I love the English pointer. I I and my wife actually loves that dog. And and everybody to run it loves Doc. But uh man, those GSPs are pretty too.
SPEAKER_02:No, we got a slew of a little bit of both. We were kind of short on the GSP side of things for a little while there, and man, Scott has has bred a couple really good breedings lately, and we've kept a few of those, and we're super excited about a couple of these young short hairs coming up. But like Scott said, it's a process. I mean, you really don't know what you got until you're a couple years into it, you know, and and didn't and to find that next level dog, I mean, there's great weekend dogs, there's capable national dogs, and then there's the next level dogs. And man, to find that diamond in the rough, it it is, it's a process. And you know, I've been going down this path now with Scott for for a year or a few years here, helping me try to find that diamond in the rough. And man, I I ain't there yet.
SPEAKER_00:Yeah. When when it's it's an expensive habit, you know.
SPEAKER_01:Right. So back back to you you mentioned breeding off a paper, and uh uh you know, the paper, it's that genetic background. I've always looked at it like I don't want to try and spend the time to reinvent the wheel. You know, you you go back and look at these categories and and uh you know see what produced proven winners and those people so many of them dog people, you know, they've they've invested years and years of work into you know developing these dogs and again, you know, it's not all just reading off a paper, but it's all a lot of times it'll give you a good start, you know, where you're getting a dog that's gated good uh gated knife and uh a a good uh good bite and you know put together correctly and and all that stuff should be if you're buying a good genetically sound dog, all that stuff should already be there, and then you have to take that that prospect and go out there and spend the time and dream, and then again, sit back and wait and see, you know, if if if he's gonna put it all together and be somebody.
SPEAKER_00:Hey, it's Kenneth Witt with the Gun Dog Nation podcast, and we are so proud to be partnered with the National Shoot to Retrieve Association, also known as Nastra. Nastra has a common love for producing the best bird dogs possible. It's a great community that builds and bonds, everlasting friendships. I've actually got to meet a lot of the NASA members who've taken me hunting and some other Krausehun and stuff in different places. So I can honestly say I'm a member and I'm proud to be partnered with them. NASTRA hosts national and regional field trials that emphasize the working ability of bird dogs. They have been around for over 50 years. There's a reason that NASTR has been around that long. Please check them out at www.nstra.org and belong and support your local NASTAR club. They do have national and regional events, and it's a good place to help learn to be a better dog trainer, a better dog owner, and to compete with your bird dog. Thank you.
SPEAKER_02:You know what it's a small community too, you know, and there's there's just certain breedings that have historically worked well, and there's, you know, it might be the same bloodline on paper, but maybe this female crossed really well with that dog, and this other female from the same winner did not, you know, and so that's a small world. So you get knowing people and knowing the bloodlines. And, you know, like there's a couple, a couple dogs that have really historically bred excellence with Jimmy, you know, and and there's been other dogs that maybe come from really, really close bloodlines that they just weren't as good, you know. So, but it's a small community, everybody talks and everybody kind of knows what works and what doesn't work. And you're seeing a lot of the horseback guys cross out to nastra stuff, and you're seeing a lot of nastra stuff cross out to horseback stuff, and you know, that short hair breeding that Scott and I just were talking about, you know, that that Scott's cross-wend stuff and that we cross that out to a horseback dog out of Ann Arbor. And man, they're young right now. They're they're not even a year old, eight or nine months old. But man, what I'm seeing now, I'm I'm excited for them. So you just you just never know. But, you know, it's kind of like people, you know, you get a lot of these guys that are just bird hunters, like, oh, you know, that$300 short here in the backyard of someone out of the newspaper. It could be the diamond of the rough, it could be that Maui dog of Eric's, you know. But odds are, and just thought process, you know, why would I start with a Chevy Cavalier when I can buy the Corvette, you know?
SPEAKER_00:Exactly. Now, uh this question for Scott, you and Chad both when when you get a pup, how early do you expose the a puppy to birds?
SPEAKER_01:I'll take my my puppies after they hit about five or six months old, I'll start taking them out into the uh training field and and I usually just grab a bag of pigeons. I don't try to teach them anything. I just take a bag of pigeons and when they're when they're out there running around I'll I'll roll a pigeon out in front of them. You know, I'll try and bounce it off the ground in front of them or something like that and uh just get them all excited about birds, you know? And then uh I'll do that from five to six months old up until they're about nine or ten months old. And I don't like to overdo that with them because they'll they'll get they tend to get to where they'll just hang around you then because you've got the birds on you, but um I don't like to I'm not a big proponent of starting these dogs young. Uh I think uh you know there's always pressure involved with with breaking these dogs, and I think if you start waiting until they're that 10 month or 12 month old stage, you they just have a lot more they're more mentally prepared for the pressure and they have more confidence at that level, at that age.
SPEAKER_00:That makes sense.
SPEAKER_02:And and then you know, we yes uh I say me personally, you know, I'm I'm the same with Scott. I'm I'm a firm believer in not starting them too soon, you know. You can you can do more damage than you do good, you know. And a lot of times, you know, it's all based off a maturity level of a dog. There might be a dog that it's ready to start working, formal training seven or eight months, you know, and then there's some that, you know, they might not be ready at a year and a half old. They're just not mature enough, you know. So you really gotta work on that. And I think the more important thing, at least I feel, on these young dogs is not really the exposure to the field or taking them out hunting. I think it's more the socialization. Like, you know, I have a I have a tribe of young kids, they're all getting old now, but you know, back when they were all playing, you know, football and baseball and stuff, I took them dogs everywhere with me because the socialization part of it is more important than the field work at that young age because uh they're gonna be bold and confident and not be, you know, not be spooked by situations and stuff. But I think the socialization of a young dog is more important. And, you know, we've all seen these guys on Facebook, you know, I got this four-month-old dog and he's pointing birds, and I'm taking them hunting, and I almost want to pull my hair out. I can hardly contain myself not to write something that I regret on Facebook don't comment and post like that because man, don't don't push it. You know, every dog's different, you know, maturity levels are different, but man, I just feel there's no reason to take a dog out hunting that, you know, actually wild bird hunting and stuff that's less than you know, six years old. I mean, a lot of times, really, Scott, I mean, you're you're more knowledgeable of stuff than I am, but I would say a year old is before you really start getting into your formal training. You could start your yard work and your wall training and stuff like that, but material level and just actual formal training a year, uh, you know.
SPEAKER_01:Yeah, well, I mean, we'll you know, where you where you officially start breaking that dog, yeah. We're we're usually around a year. But I mean, and Chad touched on it too. Uh we're not working with with the the normal type bird dog, per se. The the ones that we pick out we always look for, you know, like when we're picking a puppy out of there, we want these we want those high drive, you know, dogs that kind of operate on the edge of uh oftentimes, you know, or that that drive is always harder to uh to get under control. And you know, you have to you have to wait a little bit longer for them dogs to be mentally ready to break. Um just because they're so highly driven, they can't focus a lot of times when they're when they're younger like that. It takes a little bit of age before they they get that ability to, you know, pay attention and focus long enough for you something.
SPEAKER_00:Scott, I assume you're still actively training uh a bit daily, right? Yes.
SPEAKER_01:I I I've quit training for the public. Mostly now it's just dogs that Chad and I own together. Which is which is a bunch of them.
SPEAKER_00:Yeah, that keeps you busy, I'm sure.
SPEAKER_01:I mean, I I got a dog club friend too that I I help people, you know. The people that belong to my club there, they they've always got one problem or another that I'm trying to help them out with.
SPEAKER_00:Dang, I wish I could come and belong to Scott's dog club, don't you, Chad?
SPEAKER_02:I tell you what, you know, it's kind of an inside thing. And again, Scott's so modest and not doesn't like to brag up on himself, but crosswind kennels is really kind of the mecca for Nastra guys. Like at one point in your life, if you're running Nastra, you need to go go to Crosswing Kennels and run a trial. And it's just the setup he has is incredible. And you know, he ain't even in his club, you know, he's got members from all different groups from you know the Navda guys and AKC guys and stuff. And yeah, there's not too many places like that where you have the opportunity to pull up and you got quail and launchers and ATVs and perfectly groomed fields, and you know, a guy that is just you know has earned his own ledge and you know, to pick his brain apart. And and you know, it's an and him and his nephew Thad are there, all you know, Thad Townsend, and who is extremely incredible with stuff too, and they're both just so helpful. So, you know, we have a bird dog club here, and you got to meet some of our members of Bad Bad Land Bird Dog Club, but uh, you know, we don't have the facility. We don't you know we got the ground, but we we don't have a building, we don't have the the you know the everything set up like there. So yeah, that's a unique place and it's it's really something.
SPEAKER_00:I sure wish I could I've come fair and visit you, Scott, one of these days. More than welcome anytime. Um Well, thank you. I appreciate that. Um, well both you guys. Well, I will. I mean, I mean that. So do you we both you guys be at Pheasant Fest this year?
SPEAKER_02:Yep, I will definitely I'll be there. Scott, he's kinda it's kinda on a rock and a hard spot with his presidential duties, but that that that actually falls on one of that that falls on one of our national events.
SPEAKER_01:Um so I'm kinda I kinda need to be in two places at once, but I'll uh I guess I gotta wait and see, but I'm I'm leaning toward the Pheasant Fest because I really don't have a dog qualified down there for the uh the uh Garmin invitational. So we'll see. But that's subject to change too.
SPEAKER_02:That last year Pheasant Fest was the first time ever that we did anything far as the national organization like that. And uh what a what a great experience, you know, and what a ton of good people to meet, and that's you know how we hooked up with you, and you know, it's turned into a quick friendship, and you know, there's just a lot of people like that. We never expect expected um what we got there, and you know, we got into the game late and didn't have a great booth. And this year, you know, we got two booths and at a good location, and I am I am so so excited for that in the networking and just to spread the word of of Naster and what we do. I mean, what a great opportunity.
SPEAKER_00:Uh it's it's one of my I hate to say this, but I should have said on podcasts, it is one of my favorites uh conventions. I I really, at least for us, it was a great experience to for my podcast, but but I just I really I like and I like them all, but it might be my favorite.
SPEAKER_02:Yeah, you know, and we just we haven't broke into that stuff with our group because our group is all volunteers. Everybody from the president of the organization to you know the regional officers is we're all just volunteers. We only have two full-time employees in our office. And so it uh you know, it takes a lot of commitment for the members to spend their time and their money to do something like that. But man, I just I loved it. And I I'm so interested, and I'll be picking your brain about what other ones should we do and where should what else should we be doing? Because, you know, you you know the network and you know the market of that stuff, and I'm excited to learn more about that and spread the word of Naster. And what a better way to do it. I mean, I actually wasn't even to be at Pheasant Fest, and I I helped it get everything lined up and organized, and then I had a big project come up, and those guys call me Tom Daphnis and Scott call me from from uh down there on that that Friday night, and they're like, man, we are getting our butts handed to us. We are busy. Like, can you get down here? And I was like, Man, let me let me get a flight. So I showed up 11 o'clock the next day, and they weren't kidding. It was busy, busy, man. But what it was so much fun. I really, really enjoyed it. And and I love talking Nastra, I love talking bird dog stuff, so you know we could do this for hours on end.
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SPEAKER_02:No, I I've done both. Um, and I a couple years ago, I took a little hiatus break and uh decided to try a couple different things. And so I did some horseback, I did some AKC stuff, and I didn't get to participate in a Navda event, but I I went and and viewed a couple of them. And this year I think I'm gonna actually take that little short hair that uh we're working and maybe try to do the natural ability stuff in Navda just to just to try it out. Because we have a tremendous amount of members, especially in our region of North Dakota, here that are coming from the Navda group over into Nastra stuff because their dogs achieve a lot of what they do at a very young age, and then they got a lot of life left. So a lot of them are discovering NASA and realizing you can do both. But it uh it is is definitely different. And you know, and at all those events I went to, I loved having debates. I'm one of those guys that I'll play the devil's advocate a lot just to get good debate and discussion going on. That was always my favorite classes in college, just because you know, you can uh you can just have fun and get people riled up, you know. And so I do that at these other events, you know, and and you know, what people consider a broke dog in different organizations differ, you know, and you hear that a lot, you know, like, oh, well, your dogs aren't broke, well, your dogs don't do this. They're all incredible dogs, they're just held to a different standard or they're looking for different requirements, you know, and like the AKC hunt test, you're not necessarily out there doing anything more than competing against yourself. You're going out there trying to, you know, trying to achieve a level, you know, of your training and your dog's obedience, and there's different criteria, and you know, the horseback thing too is, you know, and without getting into much, you know, detail or arguments of you know what I feel, you know, is different, because people get heated up pretty quick when you start critiquing their game, you know. But we just all have different criteria. You know, ours is more uh a lot of people think ours is more competition based, and that you know, it's all about finding birds. But when you really look at our organization, I mean our rule book has pages of what a proper find should look like and what to our standards and what deductions look like in our organization and why. And same with the retrieves and everything like that. And so there is there's just so much difference that you really can't, you really can't compare them. I mean, it's just a different game, a different set of expectations. And I think all of the organizations, the dogs are incredible in their in their organizations, you know, and what they do. And and we're finding, especially with the Navda guys, it's kind of catered to them for NASDAQ. Like they're when they get through that level of training and then come over to the NASDAQ stuff, we're seeing these guys really, really excel. Like we have a huge base of guys out of the Red River Valley Navda group at Fargo, North Dakota, that probably 10, 11 of them that have become members of us, of our NASDAQ organization for this group, and they have become extremely valuable members of our organization. And John Wickenheiser is kind of the president of the Red Net Red River Navda stuff down there in Fargo, and he's now an officer in our group. And um, man, he is showing us a whole nother level of training and and the fact that you can take those dogs and compete in our stuff and be successful and still hold your dog to that standard, you know. And so it's really um it's really it's hard to compete or put apples to apples. And and I do, I love debating these guys. When I went to the horseback trial out in Wynneth, Montana, man, I was having all kinds of fun. You know, they're like, well, your dogs aren't broke. Well, define broke, what's broke to you? You know, I was like, your dogs don't retrieve the bird back to you. So, you know, like I would just get get the debate going, and it was so much fun. You know, I enjoy ruffling feathers a little too much, probably, but I think they're all incredibly awesome, you know, and I think each one, you know, it's just cool to see. I enjoyed going to all the different ones and experiencing it. And I did the bird dog challenge circuit over in Appleton, Wisconsin. I went over to one of those things too, and and that's a whole different animal there and a whole different uh whole different game. That that that was uh that was really fun to do, and that was really interesting to see. And those guys, those guys were cool people. You one thing you didn't do is go home hungry or sober. It was a lot of fun.
SPEAKER_00:That's all right. So yeah, I I didn't realize I I need to go to all the trials and try, you know, to to learn a little bit more about them, but I'm definitely gonna attend some this year. That's my bucket, that's my checklist that I will do. Um well gentlemen, I I want to just because I I really believe in Nastra, uh uh just from hanging out with a bunch of you guys uh and hunting uh with Tom and up and up there with you, Chad, and uh I want to do everything I can to to share the good news. Uh people need to know what a great organization it is that you know beginners are welcome and you don't have to feel embarrassed. And I think it's great because my job is a is a well, it's not my job. My my role or my goal as a podcaster is to encourage people to to to get in the sport of gun dogs and uh spread the word and keep our heritage alive, preserve our heritage, uh because, you know, especially for young people, uh it just you know, there's so many distractions and this is such a good thing, it's such a positive thing to get uh young people, you know, involved in. Um but gentlemen, I know I know it's a we're we're doing this on a Friday evening, and you guys are probably busy been hunting, training, and all that stuff. I want to get y'all back on here again, and anything I can do to support Nastra and help promote NASA, you guys let me know. Uh I know we're doing it, you know, contractually uh with each other, but anything I can do to help, uh I'll I'll be glad to. Because I believe in the organization.
SPEAKER_02:Well, we sure appreciate the the partnership that we created with you, and and I really appreciate the friendship that we've created in a short period of time. And you're gonna fit right in with our Naster group. So I look forward to uh hearing the day that you go over and see them boys in Kentucky and and enjoy that. That'll be a lot of fun. I can't wait to hear the stories.
SPEAKER_00:Yeah, that no, that's uh uh I I I miss I miss my home state, and I can't wait to hang out with those guys. But so Chad, I'm I'm maybe we'll get to hunting again this year before season's over with. I don't know yet, but we'll definitely see each other at Pheasant Fest. That's gonna be good.
SPEAKER_02:Yeah, absolutely. And you know, you don't gotta twist my arm to go somewhere hunting. If you got something cooking on your end, let me know and I'll be there and vice versa. And I always I sure enjoy having having you up here, and you're welcome anytime.
SPEAKER_00:Well, thank you. And if I get something down my way that I can get you in on, I will, I promise you.
SPEAKER_02:Sounds good, buddy.
SPEAKER_00:All right. Well, Chad, thank you so much. Uh well, Scott, it's a pleasure and a privilege to have you on here and to have a famous uh guy in the gun dog world, a Hall of Fame. You're a Hall of Fame, in my opinion. I don't know if you're if you're not in the Hall of Fame. fame of Nazar you should be. Um but uh I hope you get I hope you decide to go to Pheasant Fest so I can get to see you again. Well Jim Likewise, likewise yeah I'll uh I'm gonna try to make it there this fun. I uh and um yeah hopefully I get to hang out with you guys. It I know we all get tied up in those booths and it's hard to get away and talk to people. I actually got to go over to where's where the NASTA booth was with Tom and uh because Tom and I at that time had talked a lot but we'd never met in person. So uh and Tom's the reason I know you guys you know so it's it's just a small world. Um but anyway gentlemen I want y'all to have a great weekend it was a privilege having y'all both on here uh especially uh uh Chad is is a is a I consider a close friend and and now I've had a legend on here too with Scott so that's a pretty good night but sounds good you have a great weekend too buddy okay y'all too thank you hello this is Kenneth Witt with Gundog Nation and I'd like to encourage all you listeners and viewers on our YouTube channel to check out patreon.com forward slash gundognation for ten dollars a month you can become a member of our community and we'll have access to lots of stuff mainly we'll do a monthly forum an open forum where you can ask me anything gun dog related and we'll learn from each other in the community should be a lot of fun each month we will do that. So check it out patreon.com forward slash gun dognation