Gundog Nation
A show to bring together gundog enthusiasts, trainers, and handlers with discussion focused on all breeds and styles of gundogs.
Gundog Nation
Landon Poplin - What Makes A Dog Great: Breed Myths, Hard Lessons, And The Road To The Grand
#68 A German Wirehair at the HRC Grand? That’s where this story turns heads. Trainer Landon Poplin walks us through how Harker, a versatile dog bred to point, track, and retrieve, made history by earning a Grand title in a retriever-first arena. We dig into steady-at-the-line expectations, the brutal pass rates, and the mindset it takes to keep going after breaks, pops, and blown plans—because that road wasn’t straight, and the lessons are the gold.
We get specific on handling and training. Landon unpacks how to fix “popping” without frying a careful dog’s confidence: close the distance, add presence, give a clear cast, then rerun with purpose. He explains why some dogs are methodical by nature, why that’s an asset, and how to protect it during pressure. We talk breeding strategy with a working lens—prioritizing the dam’s record, why a Grand title signals steadiness under pressure, and how vocalization can be a hard genetic stop for high-level work. For versatile breeds, Landon respects the German testing system yet insists on real-world proof: show the good, bad, and ugly in training and hunting, not just a highlight reel.
Field time ties it all together. Landon announces a western wild-bird program across North Dakota, Montana, Utah, and Colorado, built to give dogs and owners the reps you can’t fake on pen-raised birds. We compare covers and dog choices—labs and cockers hammer cattails and corn where birds run, while pointing dogs shine on prairie and edge. You’ll leave with a realistic timeline for Grand readiness, practical fixes for common handling issues, and a renewed belief that patience and clarity win more than pressure and hurry.
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I'm Kenneth Witt and welcome to Gun Dog Nation. Gun Dog Nation is much more than a podcast. It's a movement to build a community of people around the world that like to watch a well-trained dog do what it's bred to do. Also, we want to get our youth involved into the sport of gun dogs, whether it be hunting, sport, or competition. We want to build a community of people united to preserve our gun dog heritage and to be better gun dog owners. Tune in to each weekly episode and learn about training, dog health, wellness, and nutrition. We will also offer tips for hunting with dogs and for competition, uh hunt tests, field trials, and other dog sports that involve gun dogs. Please go to our website, gundognation.com, and subscribe to our email list. We will keep you informed weekly with podcasts that are coming out. We also will be providing newsletters with training tips and health tips for your dog. You can also go to patreon.com forward slash gundognation and become a member. There's different levels of membership on there. Just go check that out. Also, we'd like to thank Sean Brock for providing the music for this show. The introduction and the outro is Sean Brock. He played everything on there except the Banjo by Scott Vest on the Dobe Bro by Jerry Douglas. Sean is a neighbor of mine from over in Harlan, Kentucky. I'm just across the mountain in Hyden, Kentucky, and he's a super talented guy. But most of all, want you guys to check out the Creekers. They are also from Hyden, Kentucky. This is an up-and-coming bluegrass and country band, and these guys are hot. They're all over TikTok and YouTube. You will hear these guys because in a year or so that they will be on the radio. They are very talented. Their videos are going viral on the net. These boys are family. Two of the lead singers, one grew up with my daughter, and the other one is my cousin's son. So he's family. But check them out. Check out the Creakers. Also, last but not least, if you want to buy a hat, koozie, t-shirt, or even gun dog supplies, go to shopgundognation.com and you can purchase any of those items. Thank you so much for listening. It's a privilege to have people that want to put up with me talking about dogs all the time. I actually enjoy what I do, and I'm so glad to have this opportunity. And thank you. All right. Welcome back to Gun Dog Nation Podcast. Uh it's Kenneth Witt coming to you again today from Fort McCavie, Texas at the ranch. Um sorry, let me get the little screen fixed here, Landon. All right, now we're going. Uh Landon, you might be the first person, or no, the second person I've had on my podcast two times. I think the other one was more crazy.
SPEAKER_02:Uh I feel special.
SPEAKER_01:Yeah, yeah. No, actually, I feel special because I made you promise me when you won the grand for the first time ever that it's ever been done with a German wire carrier. I was like, man, I want you on my I gotta talk to you about this. So uh you and I can talk all day, Lennon, but I'm gonna let you just for everybody that's not that's not good to hear the podcast we did last year, uh introduce yourself, everybody, please.
SPEAKER_02:Uh my name is Landon Poplin. I'm from Hamptonville, North Carolina, uh just outside the foothills of the Blue Ridge. Um known for training versatile breeds in the retriever world, and uh now have the first grand champion of wire here there's ever been.
SPEAKER_01:Well, officially on air, congratulations, man. Thank you, thank you. You know, doing some first of all, for those of y'all that might not know, Landon knows this something, I'm gonna preach the choir, but for those of you that don't know, the grand is by far the hardest hunt test, and I don't think anyone would disagree with that. Uh it's not a field trial, but it's a hunt test with a pass rate, uh, I think I've been been told around 23%. Does that sound about right, Landon?
SPEAKER_02:Uh yeah, it fluctuates from like 17 to 23, something like that. Okay. Wow. I see marvelous. I've I've been to some and I think my first grand, that pass rate was like 11. Jesus.
SPEAKER_01:It was rough. You know, and that has to be discouraging, you know. I mean you put in all that time and all that work and you go there and uh you know, you travel. Uh it takes desire, determination, and guts. And man, I admire anybody that's done what you've done, but more importantly, let's let's talk about why your grand title on your dog is special. Tell just tell the sisters, I mean, why is it different uh than your average grandpas that someone's gonna get there at the conference?
SPEAKER_02:I mean, as you know, the versatile breeds are a little more difficult, whether it's a wire hair, short hair, Brittany, uh Munsterland or it doesn't matter. You know, they have a different mentality of how they hunt, how they think, uh, much, much more methodical dogs, which that is coming down the lines of labs now where they are extremely methodical and people have had to learn how to train diff very differently from the old days.
SPEAKER_01:Yes. You know, Landon, what impressed me about you, and I tell people this when when your name comes up, is you know, the consummate you have is first of all, you're the first guy that's ever taken a German wire hair to the grant and title it, which takes two passes. But second, your age. I mean, you're a young man. How old are you? 38. Okay. I actually I actually thought you were younger than I thought you were in your high 20s. Uh well still that's to me, that's young. Uh I'm 19 years older than you. Um but you've how long have you been what we could call a pro trainer?
SPEAKER_02:Uh I guess probably technically three years. Um I wouldn't I wouldn't consider my pro until consider myself pro until maybe this past summer.
SPEAKER_03:Okay.
unknown:Yeah.
SPEAKER_02:Because that's when that's when I truly went full-time, you know, I'm doing nothing but training dogs. I've gotten a little bit in the fall and winter, but not very much.
SPEAKER_01:Okay. And um, you know, I know you own a lab, but and it's hard enough to get a Labrador retriever to pass the grand. As we all know, or if we don't if you don't know, the grant is set up as a retrieving hunt test for a retriever. It's actually the grand champion test for retrievers. Right. And and all retrievers that are hunting bloodlines should have retrieving in their DNA, right? I mean, that's what they were bred for for centuries. Right. You took a dog that wasn't necessarily bred to retrieve and took it to the highest level. Um, what possessed you to do that? Are you just you're just like a challenge?
SPEAKER_02:I mean, I I do like a challenge, but I mean, I really had no intentions to um to run any kind of test. I didn't know about them. Well, we touched on this a little bit in the last podcast, but I mean, I had no idea. It wasn't until the people I was training with said, hey man, you know, he he might have it. You know, you could at least go to started, see what happens. You know, if he does well and you don't enjoy it, then you know, do your thing, hunt your dog, and you know, let it go. Um, but as you know, that's where the hooks get set and started or uh junior, whatever it may be, um, even on the Navda level in like natural ability type stuff, that's that's how they get you in. And it's great. Um, I mean, some of my best friends in the world I've met through the dogs, uh, the dog world. And uh I mean, some of them didn't like us being there at first, and then now they have our respect. But that's also what kept pushing me to prove them wrong.
SPEAKER_01:Yeah. Uh now just for the listeners, uh, we we got a picture of your dog up behind us, don't we? Yeah, that's hard. Okay.
SPEAKER_02:And that's all that's all five of mine there.
SPEAKER_01:Okay. So now you see uh that Lannon, of course, you Lannon's got some labs there, I think a cocker. But he also has a German wire hair, which the German word for that, and I might mispronounce it is Dro Drotthar. Drawhard. Yeah. That's right. And um, you know, they're more and more matter-of fact, it's so ironic. I just got a text from a friend of mine who lives outside Dripping Springs, Texas. It's getting ready. It looks like he's wanting to he's sending me a bunch of pictures and pedigrees on Drotthar, and it's all German paperwork. Uh-huh. And I know he's wanting he wants me to call when this is over and give him advice on buying a dog. Uh that's what I stand to do.
SPEAKER_02:I'm telling him to wait till spring. Harker's got a litter coming up, then uh it's gonna be a good one. A real good one. If he wants to get on the list, he needs to do it now. We've already got eight people on board to buy. Oh, wow. Oh, so we got eight pups sold already.
SPEAKER_01:Oh man, I was gonna I won't say it's on I can't say a whole lot, but she's in here. But uh I don't know how we got on that list. Um I've got to be quiet. So um, yeah, I I just uh you know, you you've taken the drought heart, which is a versatile breed, just for everybody that's that doesn't know, because we have people that tune into this, you know, that's that's sometimes novice. Uh what is a versatile breed? Define that for the listeners.
SPEAKER_02:Um, I mean, versatile breed could be anything from where you know you're hunting waterfowl upland, um, you're doing upland blood tracking, shed hunting, upland, uh waterfowl. Um I mean, Harker does it all, his sister does it all. Um my lab will eventually do it all, but we're gonna key in on her field trial stuff before anything. Uh I mean I purchased her for competition dog.
SPEAKER_01:So now, uh, does Harker, does he have any AKC titles?
SPEAKER_02:No, we haven't done any AKC yet. Um, we just really concentrated on the grand and uh getting all that knocked out. So we're gonna run, we'll probably do some AKC master stuff this coming year. Yeah um it's really depends on how busy we are. Um because there are several AKC clubs around, so it's pretty easy for me to run run for a day, come home and sleep them all in bed, and then go back the next.
SPEAKER_01:Yeah. So no, that's something to be said for that. Now, you how many dogs are you trained right now currently, Landon, if you don't mind me asking?
SPEAKER_02:Uh right now I've got eight client dogs and then my five personal dogs.
SPEAKER_01:What all variety of breeds have you trained for dogmark?
SPEAKER_02:I knew you were gonna ask this. Uh so right now I have let's see, one, two, three wire hairs, two short hairs, uh cocker. Uh what else is out there? I'm trying to think. Um wire hairs, short hairs, a bloodhound. He's here for tracking training. Uh we started this past weekend, so he's having fun finding deer legs. Um what else do I have here right now? Uh oh, I've got a Lou Allen setter in training. Okay. Um it's a really nice dog. And trying to think. Oh, I got a graphon. A graffon come in this week.
SPEAKER_01:You know, Lennon, first of all, I know it's in my own kennel here, and I'm not a pro trainer, you know that, but you know, every dog has a different personality and and and that you have to train differently or approach differently in in ways. But different breeds, that's a whole different ballgame. I know just a cocker was the most I just you know finally got in the cocker world, and man, that's a different, that's a whole different ball game. How do you I mean, how do you pull out a wire hair, train it, and then pull a cocker out and train it, then a grafana. How do you do that? Hello, this is Kenneth Whipp with Gun Dog Nation. Many people quickly become frustrated and confused when training the retriever. Cornerstone Gun Dog Academy's online courses eliminate all the guesswork by giving you a proven training system that will help you train a dog that anyone will be proud to have in their blind. Learn where to start, what to do next, and what to do when problems arise. Visit Cornerstone Gun Dog Academy.com to learn how you can train your retriever. I have used this method myself. I have been through it a couple times with different dogs. I refer back to it lots of times when I'm trying to get dogs fresh and back up for hunt test season. I highly recommend them. I have actually been a subscribed member of Cornerstone Gun Dog Academy since 2016, and I would suggest anyone use it. I highly recommend it. They have an app that you can get to on your phone. You can do it from your phone, your laptop. You can't get any more convenient than that. I I've used it, it's proven and tried, and I know literally hundreds of people that have done the same thing that I've talked to. Visit Cornerstone Gun Dog Academy.com and learn how to train your own retriever. Hello, this is Kenneth Witt, and Gun Dog Nation is proud to have one of their sponsors as Retriever Training Supply, based in Alabama. Retriever Training Supply offers fast shipping on quality gear. Your dog will love it. Visit Retriever Training Supply.com to purchase gear to help you train your retriever. Listen, they have some of the best leases I've ever found. It's stuff's made in America. Their leases are and they source them locally. They have anything you want, fast, friendly service, fast shipping, just good people. Retriever Training Supply.
SPEAKER_02:So I mean, I I worked in many different um jobs in the past where I had to switch my brain from one thing to another quickly. Anywhere from law enforcement to finance is as weird as that sounds. But uh, you know, I I'll go from writing, you know, mortgage loans to, you know, ordering a new debit card or you know, writing a car loan. I I did it all there. Um so I mean my brain's just kind of programmed to bounce back for whatever I whatever the task is in front of me, just bounce back and forth. So uh it definitely helps you be able to read dogs, that's for sure, with with the different breeds and the personalities.
SPEAKER_01:Now, Landon, I should know the answers to this. And just for the listeners, to get a grand tile on the HRC, which is UKC, you have to have two passes. And that's a big big feat. Did you ever not have a pass with Harker?
SPEAKER_02:Yeah, so our let's see, our first attempt, we went to the fourth series. Our second attempt, we went to the fifth and he broke. Um, which I got a lot of slack for that, for an upland dog breaking an upland. But when it when you have to teach a pointing dog to engage and flush that bird and then remain completely still after you just told him to do basically what you train him not to do. Um I mean it was I was happy to be in the fifth, to be honest. Yeah, that is a big accomplishment. Oh, yeah. And then our third, our third grand, he peaked in training. Uh pre-training for that week, he peaked, and when he went out there on day one, man, he was he was breathing fire that day. And I just I lost some, he hammered his marks and I lost complete control on the mind. So that's just part of it.
SPEAKER_01:But you know, but that's your first grand, right? You'd never hit taking Harker to the grand was the first time you'd ever competed in the grand, right? That's right.
SPEAKER_02:I mean, Harker was my first dog competing ever. Yeah. Oh wow. So I know I've never been in HRC with any other b any other dog or breed.
SPEAKER_01:That's something else. I mean, yeah, that's that's even more impressive.
SPEAKER_02:Yeah. And I mean, to do it in, you know, basically five years. I mean, that's which I didn't really care how long it took, I just won a title. So but now we're chasing the Hall of Fame. So Yeah, heck yeah. And you'll get well, that'll be something too. Yeah. Oh, he'll do it. I don't know when, but we gotta scratch out two more passes. He's got he'll have the points. He's already got 775 points.
SPEAKER_01:You know, Lena, what you did is is monumental for draught wire hair owners all over. Has it brought you a lot of attention and recognition? And more I mean, is your phone blowing up? What came from when everyone found out that you did this, what happened next?
SPEAKER_02:Uh I mean, obviously a lot of congratulations, you know, good work, hard work. Um, but the grant, I got home on a Thursday, and from that following Friday to Sunday, I gained six conics in three days. So that was that was well worth it. Yes. Well worth it. Well deserved, too. I want you to know. Like I've to the point where I'm I I completely quit guiding this this fall, um, just because I've got several dogs coming in. So I just want to put all my focus on those dogs and nothing else.
SPEAKER_01:I like it, man. Well, you deserve it. Uh I'm glad that that's happening to you. Oh my goodness. Uh I'm here at the ranch. Sorry, I just I've got an endangered species here at the ranch. It's called a Barracinga, which is big old deer, looks similar to a red stag. They got kind of they're kind of long hair. And uh he just popped up out behind my window there. It's pretty neat. Oh, really? Yeah, I don't see he don't come out much, so uh uh and I've been here for six years. Oh wow. Yeah, he's pretty good size. Um sorry about that. That caught me off guard. Um what are you now or I would assume, achieving what you did, that now you have client dogs that says, hey Lennon, I want my dog to get a grand title. Is that what's is that what you're shooting for with some of your customer dogs, or are most of them hunting dogs only?
SPEAKER_02:Um I would say most of them are hunting dogs at the moment. I do have a short hair um from a guy uh down in Miami, Florida, and uh his dog Yoshi, really, really nice. Well, he's technically a DK. Uh he's a Deutsche Kurtzar, so which is like the original bloodline. You know, Dry Thars are the original bloodline of wire hairs. Okay. Well, Deutsch Kurtzar, if I'm probably not pronouncing that right, but they're the original bloodline of the shore hairs. Didn't know that. You just taught me something new. Okay. Um and his dog, I mean, Yoshi's is he's only just turned one. And but man, he's so far he's a hammer and he loves training. He loves the water, and he's like, man, you know, take him as far as you can take him.
SPEAKER_01:So so you know, educate me a little bit here too, Lane. Have you ever gone to the German testing for the drought? Have you ever attended one of those? I've trained a couple dogs for it, but I've never been to been myself. It's it's I'm dying to go to one. I mean, it's if you don't mind, take us through what they test for. Because I think that's real neat.
SPEAKER_02:So like basically there let's see, I'm gonna forget the acronyms, but uh there's the VJP, which is like their started, and then there's the HZP. And then I can't remember the third one to be honest. Um is it three levels? There's three levels, and then they have like their version of the grant, which is called the armbrewster. Um so you have to pass have make a certain score at the highest level, which would be like their finished or master level. Um, you have to get a certain score to get invited to arm brewster, um, which is like I said, their version of the grant. But you know, they test for. Or they look at their coat, they look at their teeth, they measure them, you know, height and length. So if they're outside their parameters on any of that, they're automatically, they cannot be bred as a drop. Um, and then they also test them in the field. Um, with they do rabbit tracks, pheasant tracks, um, they have to do uh retrieve game in water, they have to point, um, be steady, retrieve, you know, the feather game shot down, and then uh the HZP, they have to go in, they have to run a blind, which is nothing like our blinds. Basically, they say back or whatever their word is to go out into that pond. And they have to look for that one duck in that pond or swamp or whatever it may be. And they want to see, I believe theirs is at least the eight-minute hunt. Um, they want to see that dog's desire. I mean, you can cast them, but it's kind of frowned upon. They want to see that independence come out in those dogs.
SPEAKER_01:So you basically give them a back command and let them roll? Just let them hunt. Uh maybe we shouldn't say it's on the air, but do they have to kill a rabbit? Well, it depends on what they have.
SPEAKER_02:You know, they have to jump inside that wooden box and whatever game they have in there, um, which there's all kinds we won't go there. But uh, but yeah, they they have to dispatch that animal in there and retrieve it to you, or they can retrieve it and dispatch it there at you. Okay. Um, but it does have to be dispatched. Okay.
SPEAKER_01:And it's it's is it a box like kind of semi buried, or or how is it how's that set?
SPEAKER_02:Um picture if you could picture like three, like three pallets wide, like tall, or excuse me, a pallet tall and then kind of three pallets long and and across the back, that's about the area they have. And it's probably like a three and a half foot jump to get in there, four-foot jump to get in there, something like that. Um so I like I said, I've never been, but like I've trained the client dogs to do it. And um, I mean, they they did well, and you know, they they enjoy it, but the retriever game is is the bug that I have.
SPEAKER_01:So yeah. But you know, the strictness of the German rules for their testing, I used to do Schitzen years ago. And uh, you know, you he kind of really admire their breeding stringent rules and regulations and all that. Oh yeah.
SPEAKER_02:I mean, it it's it would stink if you had a really nice dog and they, you know, if their bite was one and a half millimeter, they had a one and a half millimeter overbite, they're out. You can't you can't breed it as a drop. So um, and they that's the last time I looked it up. It could have changed by now, but um, I mean, and I get why they do it, but uh it's it's not it's not my cup of tea. That's not what I enjoy playing. Uh that's why I I train the client's dogs for it. They go run them and report back. So you don't even handle them, you just let no.
SPEAKER_00:Yeah.
SPEAKER_02:No, and a lot of those tests are nowhere near me. So Virginia client ran a dog in October in Virginia. I think that was probably three and a half, four hours from here. Yeah.
SPEAKER_01:So I know I'm going that far, I'm gonna run a whole trailer full of dogs, not one. Yeah. That's it gets expensive to for you to take that much time and travel. Um do you field trial?
SPEAKER_02:Not yet. Um well, I guess the closest thing I get to that is SRS. Okay. I'm gonna try to run at least four this this coming year. Okay. Um mainly just to learn the game and strategy and you know, learn the I mean, every judge is a little different on how they judge and their point, how they do points. And um, so just learning all that, watching the other people's dogs, how they run, um, you know, whatever factors those judges throw in that test, see how their dogs react to it time and time again, and then use that as strategy too. I mean, it's it's a mind game as well as a physical game for your for your partner.
SPEAKER_01:You know, I I've I've only I haven't been to an SRS, but I I watched uh Clark Kennington and Lyle train for one. Oh yeah. Man, that's just uh it's way, way above my capabilities as a dog, dog guy. But it's it's really impressive though to see what they can do. I mean, it's impressive to get a dog to the ground. That you know, uh on average, Landon, what do you think it would take? If it's assuming the dog has all the genetics, all the DNA, uh the right breeding and everything, your average dog, and I know there's no such thing as an you know, all dogs are alike, but an average dog with the correct and proper foundation how much how many years do you think it takes to get a dog ready for the grand? One, two, three.
SPEAKER_02:Uh to to be confident and go out there and pass with it, I'd say three years old and five hundred points. Okay. They the rule of thumb in HRC is a 500-point dog is pretty ready to run the grand. Um, or I mean, there's people that say you if you go out there and you're knocking down, say you run 20, we'll just say 15 hunt tests in a year, and you pass 10 of those, you might have flub up for a day. Um, but if you can consistently pass 10 finished tests in a row, then you might you're probably ready for the grand. At least go experience it. If it's especially if it's close to you, you might as well give it a shot. Because just going to hang out and watch, I mean, the gallery for the grand this past year, there was a couple of them that were pretty good. Uh, we could pretty much see the whole test on a couple of those. I think two of our two of our series, we could we had a land season, a water season, you could see the entire test from the gallery. Um but typically you might see one mark, and that's it. So if you're gonna make the trip there, you might as well just sign your dog up.
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SPEAKER_02:I'm pretty sure I want to say she was a grand champion before I I can't remember she was it was just over two years old or just under two. Well winter's a freak. Yeah.
SPEAKER_01:Yeah, she's she's a freak. I've got her pup right here beside me, and uh there's no limit to what she can do. It's it the one thing to limit her is her uh amateur trainer here. You'll get there. You'll get there. She really blows me away. Oh yeah. And uh she's a very methodical, you know, and maybe you were you're the one that told me that was a stroker trait.
SPEAKER_02:It is, it is. Like my my friend Tyler Mise uh Scott the Griffon, he's gonna try to run the grand in the spring. And um his wife has a stroker puck, and he's he's the same way. I mean, he he has his moments where he's wild and crazy, but yeah, you know, what once those marks are coming out, he's that head shoots out and he washes them and he he goes out there and he picks them up.
SPEAKER_01:Yeah, just she like if I tell her something different, she'll look at me like all right, that's but then she'll figure it out on her own. You know, it's just really neah, it's and she's four and a half months old. It's just amazing. Right. But anyway, no, I need to get Tyler on here for sure, Donald.
SPEAKER_02:I I um Oh yeah, he'd be a good one to talk to. He's he's got a really cool story with that dog, so that'd be something too.
SPEAKER_01:So um, I know this is not part of the podcast, but you and I get to go hunting next weekend, don't we? That's right. You know, that'd be my first Flooded Timber duck hunt. Oh, really? Yeah. I well you know I've never had a chance to hunt flooded timber. It's gonna be fun. Yeah, and my dog's never been in it, so Maverick, I'm taking him. And uh, well, you know why I'm taking him. But uh, so we'll just see how he does. But you know, he's always adapted easy. I don't I'm not anticipating much trouble.
SPEAKER_02:Yeah, I mean, he'll just jump up on one of those placeboards on the side of the tree and we'll hopefully hammer down on him. I know I talked to a fella yesterday, and he said when he let left camp a couple days ago, they were the mallers were still pouring in, and he said they were hammering on him all week. So I guess he left right before Thanksgiving and come on back. But uh he's he's headed back next week, and with especially this snowstorm coming, um, we're about to get hit with snow tonight. Really? Mm-hmm. Okay. So it's gonna get down like the I think the teens in the morning. Woo! So it's gonna be pretty cold. We're only gonna get like an inch of snow, but I mean ever everywhere west of here is getting pretty good amount of snow.
SPEAKER_01:You know, it's uh it we've had cold mornings. Then yesterday it got pretty warm, but now today it's cloudy. We got a little rain last night, which you don't get rain here much. But uh yeah, it's 43 here right now. So that's pretty cold. It feels real cold. I don't know. Uh you don't get many days like it here. But uh so use do you have do you do any breeding? I know you do some breeding with with the draughts, with the wire hairs. Yep.
SPEAKER_02:Um, I mean I do I bred my cocker revenu, which is that one right up there. Um we did a Rocket Man breeding, which is uh oh um where is he from? He's from down in Georgia. And uh Chris Stewart runs him in the grand. He decided to hunt him, or his owner decided to hunt him this past fall. So he didn't run the fall grand. I wish he would have. But um hopefully he'll run the spring.
SPEAKER_01:Okay. Does that does he Rocket Man have any grand passes?
SPEAKER_02:No, not yet. Not yet. Okay. So that's a beautiful dog, though. Oh yeah, he's he's gorgeous. Him and Revna look very, very similar.
SPEAKER_01:So but I mean I had have you got all the stuff?
SPEAKER_02:Yeah, they sold, they were probably seven weeks old. They all sold. I advertised a couple times and they were gone. So which actually um my client and friend Albert down there in Miami that has that Yoshi short hair, he bought the male and he's coming back. Let's see, I'm getting a female back in training in two weeks. And then Viper, the male, he'll be back probably end of December, early January. So I'm getting two of the four back in training.
SPEAKER_01:What's the earliest you'll take a pup in for training?
SPEAKER_02:Uh, I mean, I'll take them, you know, basically eight weeks old. It just depends on what you're wanting. Okay. Um, you know, obviously that that that puppy program's a lot more um work on my end. So obviously you're gonna have to pay for that. So that is which most and most people don't want to, if you're buying a puppy that small, they don't want to miss those puppy stages. So typically they'll bring them to me, four, five, six months old. And then we we get to work.
SPEAKER_01:I like that. Those sure was pretty pups you had. Do you plan on breeding her again sometime?
SPEAKER_02:Um, I mean, Lord willing, maybe back in come 27, maybe. Yeah. We'll see. Did you keep one back at all for yourself? No, the the litter of Harker we're gonna have in the spring. I'm not even keeping a puppy from that. So I'm uh I'm gonna be dog broke if I keep on. So yeah, I know that feels.
SPEAKER_01:Uh what's if you're like me, Lennon, you know, I I I like so many breeds, it's it's kind of scary. But what would be your next purchase if you were to buy another a different breed, something you don't have, what would you buy?
SPEAKER_03:Oh.
SPEAKER_00:I would probably give. I don't know.
SPEAKER_02:If it was if it had to be a different breed and I had unlimited money, I'd probably give one of those uh what is it called? Um Legato Rolamongo. Yeah is the Italian water dog. Yeah. Um one of my friends, uh, he trained one this past summer, and uh that that sucker was a firecracker. Like he once he figured the water out and he wasn't a couple days of that and he wasn't scared anymore, and he loved it.
SPEAKER_01:He loved it. Well, you know, the only reason I even know what that is, I was actually going to that Napopo school silver in Missouri under the original founder Bart Mellon. Uh, and uh that was in 21. And the we was on the it was held on this farm in Missouri, and that lady raised those legatos. I'd never, never heard of that. I know dogs, I'm a dog nerd, I'd never heard of them, and she had pups, and they were gorgeous. And so I just got all interested in studying them, and they're they they use them in Italy for truffles to hunt. Oh, yeah, yeah, truffle dog. Yeah, I guess truffle dogs too.
SPEAKER_02:I mean, it costs enough when you have to go buy them or you get them on uh with your meal, that's for sure.
SPEAKER_01:Yeah, yeah. It's uh and uh matter of fact, if I'm not mistaken, I don't think I think I remember this correctly. People are actually trying them on ginseng in the states, you know. When I grew up, I don't like New York, North Carolina, but where I'm from in Eastern Kentucky, so you know, uh I was ginseng hunting in high school. My my great uncle by marriage took me and you know, that's who I did it with. And heck, man, it was good money for back then, you know.
SPEAKER_02:Still good money, but I mean they're the property lines are so broken up now, you know, trying to you can now you can go up on the Blue Ridge and places like that and try to find it. Yes. Um you've got to have all your permits in order because you miss one just one little permit and you're in trouble.
SPEAKER_01:Yeah, I wonder how it was, you know. Uh in our county we had that Daniel Boone National Force, and I didn't, you know, that's many, many years ago. I don't know what the law is now or permit process. But um, so I I guess I digress there, which I'm about to do. So the Logano, I had no idea was used for for hunting purposes other than the uh the truffle stuff. So tell me about that.
SPEAKER_02:Um, I mean, I I only know a little bit of what Joe Finney, uh Riverrone Kennels, um, he's not too far from us. We try to train together uh about every other week. And um, I mean, he just his owner or that owner of that pup, he just wanted strictly waterfowl. Um he got it, he put a starter title on him. I mean, it was that was pretty cool. Yeah. Um I mean I don't know. I just like see him do what color was it? He was like uh, you know how like wire hairs with like liver and roam kind of white? He was he was kind of marbled looking.
SPEAKER_01:Yeah, I've seen that. I've seen choppet, seen yeah, different lot of different colors.
SPEAKER_02:They're pretty dark, unique looking. Yeah, he he lived, his name was Ziggy, and uh that sucker is zigged and zagged all over the field. So he was a cool little dog.
SPEAKER_01:Now I'm gonna put you on the spot, and I'm you might I'm we're all prejudiced right when it comes to dogs. What's the smartest dog you've ever trained? Hey, it's Kenneth Whip, the Gun Dog Nation podcast, and I'm very proud to have as a new sponsor Cable Gangs. That's built G-A-N-G-Z. Brandon Landry at Cable Gangs has developed, in my opinion, and I have, and I'm a customer, the best tile systems on the market. They're easy to pack, easy to store. They can call up just like an extension cord. They use premium galvanized steel cable coated with durable, UV resistant PVC coating. The brand can make custom products, anything you want that's related to a dog tile system or a cable system or forces, a way to safely secure your dog. They've even made a system that works with a bicycle so you can go and exercise your bicycles and have your dog running along with you. It would be impossible for me to describe to you all the different custom applications they have, so just go to their website at cablegangs.com and check it out. But also, they make dog tie outs, a way to safely secure your dog. If you're at a field trial, a hunt test, uh coon hound competition, whatever that might be, uh Beagles, these guys make the best product on the market. Check it out for yourself, cablegangs.com.
SPEAKER_00:Uh probably I have my hands on probably probably Harker.
SPEAKER_02:I mean um now now my mixed breed, that one up there in the middle, I mean, that joker's smart. Um but he does he doesn't have the work ethic that Harker does does. And um well he picks up on things quickly, but he gets bored quickly too. So, yeah. running drills and stuff like that. He you got about three or four reps in him and he's gonna be walking back to the truck.
SPEAKER_01:So now refresh my memory, what's his what is his he's mixed, but what is he? Uh he's half lab, half short hair.
SPEAKER_02:Okay. Oh wow. Yep. So I I mean I duck hunt with him. I mean about the only thing he hasn't picked up is a swan or um not a swan, uh Canadian goose.
SPEAKER_01:So what's the biggest bird that Conker's picked up?
SPEAKER_00:He water powd with the Conker too. Oh yeah.
SPEAKER_02:Okay I shot let's see last year? Yeah last last winter and um I I was down near the plantation and we had a cancellation for snow and ice so I found me a pond and got permission. I went goose hunting and I took her with me. I mean she she grabbed it in the water and brought it back. Now she had to turn around and scoot backwards up the bank to drag it back to me. But she got it there. I love it. She got it there. But I mean she has no problem picking up full grown mallard and running back. What does she weigh your your female? She's about right now probably 28 pounds. She's pretty big for for a female talker.
SPEAKER_01:So you know Len uh a lot of times I I talk to people tell them you know I'm I'm new to the hunt test game and and and and how much I enjoy it meeting made good friends. I've made a lot of good friends actually doing that. What what's your if you could tell anybody encourage them to get into to hunt testing and work with their dogs what what's your t tell them the the benefits and and and what to expect.
SPEAKER_02:Um I mean the benefits of the community I mean like I said they were doubters and and all that but I mean that's it doesn't matter if you go play pick up ball at the rec center people are still going to doubt you there. I mean it doesn't matter. Yeah um just doubters haters whatever you want to call them just use that for fuel for the fire and make you work harder. Yes. But the community don't be afraid to ask a question because we all had questions. Yeah and I still have questions and that's why I call you know my the people that I really trust and uh that's gonna lead me in the right direction. And that that's the biggest thing is just you know ask questions you know walk up to somebody and sit your lawn chair down and say hey and introduce yourself and you know just start talking dogs talk about the test you know talk strategy. You know if you got a training question you know if you know a pro, you know, wait until they're you know got a dog put up or you know end of the day or something like that, walk up to them and ask them a question. I mean the ones that I know they're not gonna have one problem talking to you and you know trying to help you out.
SPEAKER_01:Yeah. I found that too like I've had people walk up to me and you know uh after the not try not in a smart way I mean not not in a bad way but just trying to encourage me or I've had people tell me to relax at the line and I needed that you know we all we all need that. Yeah I had a I had an AKC judge tell me to breathe. Oh yeah. And she was right I was like yeah I'm about to pass out. But uh but it's all fun.
SPEAKER_02:So uh do you think you'll miss guiding uh I mean I I'm gonna guide maybe a day or two a week at a place in Virginia um but uh I don't I don't think I'll miss it just because the dogs are way more fun. I mean the dogs are fun to hunt too but I mean it it's nothing more than it's not more fun than watching that dog progress and you know it's not on a daily basis but you know a weekly basis you just see them getting there and things click overnight, you know, put them in the kennel and make them sleep on it and um just go from there.
SPEAKER_01:But now I I want to you you've talked to me about something that you're gonna offer this fall. Is it okay if we talk about that on here? Yeah absolutely so I think it's an amazing idea. But you you and I know I I know just from spending a last three months upland hunting up north for grouse and stuff you know hunting that way first of all is different than hunting you know pen raised quail. Not that that's an easy thing and I'm not knocking pen raised quail I do it too. But hunting sharp tail grouse and and rough grouse and woodcock man that's a different world and you're gonna you've got you're gonna offer something to people I'm gonna let you talk about that because I think that's a great idea and I I want to spread the word that you're having that service.
SPEAKER_02:Yeah so next fall after the grand is over um which is going to be in St. Louis I'm planning to leave from there and go to North Dakota and then we're gonna hunt North Dakota Montana Utah and Colorado is going to be a wild bird dog program. So you know we might do some tune up stuff with your dog just on pigeons and pen raised quail just to get them uh ready for the trip. And then we're gonna head west northwest and west and uh we're gonna hunt wild birds with client dogs uh teach them you know exactly how these birds work you know even even a pen raised quail that's been out like a we will what I would call propagated cubby you know they're still gonna let that dog get pretty close to them before they're they're gonna spook and fly off. So hopefully we can get about 10 dogs. I think that's the most I'm gonna take would be 10. And um you know it's a client the biggest thing is I want the clients to come walk walk with their dog hunt over their dog you know once they're ready yeah um you know shoot birds over them and give them the wild bird experience as well as their dog. So it all comes together and and uh they get to really enjoy the the fruits of the labor.
SPEAKER_01:I tell you there's nothing like it and and you know to me uh like I put my dogs who had never been in rough grouse woods and the first day you could tell you know it was just a big uh big change for them. It was so thick and and uh but by after I'd done that for like seven days straight they were nailing it and they were they were pointing rough grouse and which it's not easy and uh we were flushing rough grouse and you know so it it's there's just no substitute for that. You can't I mean you can't train that in Texas or North Carolina or anywhere else unless you just go there and do it.
SPEAKER_02:No I mean the the easiest bird well I won't say easy the only bird in North Carolina that's truly wild that you could go and find somewhat of an abundance would be woodcock. Really?
SPEAKER_01:Mm-hmm now you're gonna have to get to some not really where I live but if you get around Raleigh the middle of the state and further east um get in some of those creek bottoms and get out towards the marsh and swampy areas on the coast uh there's several woodcock out there okay they're fun i i I didn't jump I didn't see any in in uh Montana or the Dakotas I hunted both the Dakotas but uh I I I jumped them in Minnesota and Wisconsin oh yeah yeah Minnesota's definitely loaded with them yeah uh boy that was that was some nice hunting you know Minnesota has a place up there uh I was standing in Grand Rapids but there's a it's a it's a Minnesota in in conglomeration or in partnership with the Rough Grouse Society and they have a walk trail woods you can't take an ATV I think you can take a horse in there but no motorized vehicle and you can go in there and walk that's where I I hunted that area for like I don't know how many five days at least or if not six seven maybe but uh it was really neat you know I I end up hunting the whole the whole acreage over over a period of days but and it you know you know it'll have a a sign with the trail so you know where you're at you you know you can't really get lost right yeah you have to that that needs to be on your list. Yeah I I'd have to check that out for sure. I don't know if it'll be next fall we're gonna be pretty busy so yeah and it and I don't know if you've done this before but man Montana and the Dakotas in September can be pretty dang hot.
SPEAKER_02:Yeah well we're gonna go after the grand okay yeah so the grand usually like that third weekend of October um second and third week in October so yeah we'll we m I mean if the season not open we'll just go up there because you can train on wild birds up there for so long.
SPEAKER_01:Well you know we uh I hunted Montana first because their their season opens first for sharp tail and partridge. Matter of fact I believe it opens our first of September. It does. And then I went to South Dakota the next after the second week for a week and we hunt a reservation and their season you can go in there um and pay for a license for that Indian reservation and it's good the whole season. Oh wow and it's it opens before the state of to South Dakota or North Dakota opens.
SPEAKER_02:But that was kind of in the third week in October's opening weekend of of Pheasant in South Dakota man that's oh it's I don't think yeah my my buddies uh Albert and Augusto and all those guys from Florida a couple guys from Texas they go up there and run their dogs and uh that was Yoshi's first like true hunting trip. And uh they jumped on a plane flew them up there and I mean they found loads of pheasants loads of them.
SPEAKER_01:We do too and you know people all have so much I got all this flack on social media that I was hunting raised birds in South Dakota. I was like and I told the guy that it's his own property you know and he's like I tell them they can't we couldn't afford to put the put out the bird you know now I think the city of South the out there like in Huron I think they may put birds out uh but you know we were out on the public grounds on public grounds but we were on private land and there's you if you don't limit out there's something wrong.
SPEAKER_02:Yeah. But I think at one point they told me they they found a guy and or found some land across the road from uh the government public land and uh they knocked on his door and he said you know if you boys want to tromp in those cattails we said you're more than welcome to he's like I don't recommend it they got on so many birds and those cattails they had to put the leashes on the dogs and walk them out. Because they already had their limit and they were done and the dogs kept going.
SPEAKER_01:Hey it's Kenneth Witt with the Gun Dog Nation podcast and we are so proud to be partnered with the National Shoot to Retrieve Association also known as Nastra. Nastra has a common love for producing the best bird dogs possible. It's a great community that builds and bonds everlasting friendships. I've actually got to meet a lot of the NASR members and who's taking me hunting and some other crowds hunting and stuff in different places. So I can honestly say I'm a member and I'm proud to be partnered with them. NASTs national and regional field trials that emphasize the working ability of bird dogs. They have been around for over 50 years. There's a reason that NASTR has been around that long. Please check them out at www.nstra.org and belong and support your local NASTR club they do have national and regional events and it's a good place to help learn to be a better dog trainer a better dog owner and to compete with your bird dog. Thank you it's we hit the cat I I hunted opening day of pheasant in Montana which opened before South Dakota and uh we s I I of all even though I've seen so many birds in South Dakota these cattails we got in we watched a hundred and some I literally a hundred and some pheasant flush out one end. Oh I've never seen that I've never seen that many pheasant in my life and uh you know we didn't kill that many in that first walk but they were we'd pushed them all out to the other and they cross the road on us but man it was in but but that's the hardest hunting in the world in that marsh man I mean you can't move it's it's hard on my my old body but oh yeah but that's where you can find them. Now and I'm not I don't not here act like a dog expert but I don't I wouldn't when we hunt in South Dakota we mainly hunt corn and some CRP Milo mostly corn. The corn I would not put my pointing dogs in because the the bird just run through the rolls. Oh yeah and even the guy who's a very Scott Knee neighbor's extremely nauseable dog guy and he's like Ken you just waste any time you know just use your laps and that's what we did.
SPEAKER_02:I used two different laps and I I felt bad because my Britney and my pointer sitting in the trailer you know I mean maybe if you're out west you know big open prairies and there's pheasant you know bouncing from you know little watering holes and cattails but man it's those places that are there's that thick you're undoing a lot of training by running a pointing dog on that in that type of cover.
SPEAKER_01:I was afraid too afraid they'd break so bad on me you know after they start uh you know but but we my pointing dogs they pointed pheasants in the in the prairie you know in Montana and Dakotas when we used that kind of stuff and it and it worked pretty well but not in that corn.
SPEAKER_02:No Yeah I don't that's what cockers and labs are for in that kind of cover.
SPEAKER_01:Yeah so to if if people want to do that they can just tell them how to contact you if they wanted to get involved in that wild bird training program you're gonna offer this year which I think is a great idea.
SPEAKER_02:Yeah they can yeah so they can reach me on Facebook or Instagram um at Wirehair Outdoors or if you want to uh contact me on Facebook or Instagram uh my personal one is Landon I think it's Landon Poplin on Facebook and uh Lumberjack Waterfowl on Instagram.
SPEAKER_01:Okay. And uh do you you're only gonna take I think you told me 10. I believe 10 is what we're gonna do. And I think that's the limit. Okay. And do you have what do you have 10 openings now or do you already have some of those already I think uh I definitely have one field.
SPEAKER_02:So um one guy is a little iffy um because he wants to hunt his dog at home around where he hunts and I mean I get it but I said well I mean if you can fly me the dog or you know transport it somehow you know I can go pick it up or something um or I mean just bring it to me whatever you want to do. So uh but yeah well so far I I know there's nine spots open at the moment for sure. Okay.
SPEAKER_01:Well that's good to know. So yeah I think um anything else they need to know about it you how long will it last?
SPEAKER_02:Uh I imagine we'll leave the end of October and you know they'll be I probably won't be home until right around Christmas. Okay. So to hit to hit four states like that I mean I I need you know that's a lot of travel time on top of training.
SPEAKER_01:So yeah boy if you're gonna be there in December you better be prepared.
SPEAKER_02:Well that that's one thing I've been thinking about is leaving and going to Utah or Colorado first and then coming back. That way I might not hit as bad of a storm because if if I have to cross the pass in Colorado in December I may or may not make it.
SPEAKER_01:Yeah. You know uh my buddy texts me yesterday Chad Norpal up in uh he's a real big nasty guy um up in Williston North Dakota and he said and he's from he lived there for years he said it was really bad right now he said it's just but you know heck those guys are only 40 miles from Canada right yeah they're way up there. Yeah it's uh uh yeah I I I tell you I I it it's so weird because I got up there in September I was you you felt like hunting in shorts in the tank top it's a hot and when I left a different ball game yeah November? Yeah I left early in November anyway um Lennon you you've trained you've guided you're a hunter and you're a competitor what's the number one piece of advice that you would give someone training their own dog now you're a pro trainer and you take dogs to train for people that don't have time or don't know how to train their own and there's nothing wrong with that I mean I mean the world needs that and that's why guys like you are booked up but what would you give to the average person or just a hunter that's wanting to train their own dog?
SPEAKER_02:Uh probably the biggest piece of advice is don't give up I mean you're gonna have horrible horrible days and you're gonna have really great days and then you're not gonna remember any of those in-between days where the dog's still learning but it just you know it just you don't really think about it that much you remember the highs and lows and nothing in between and I mean I'm perfect I'm guilty of that to this day. I have to remind myself and then sometimes some of my buddies remind me of that. Like I was in Illinois hunting last week and trying to remember I was running we were hunting two different sloughs and uh some guys in the other slough didn't have a dog so we had to go over there and pick up all their birds at the end of the hunt. And you know there's some laying out there in the decoys which were you know let them look at them send them they're good to go. And then I think there were seven I had to pick up that were I had to run blinds. And I was getting kind of frustrated because there was a couple times he just like blatantly refused the cast and went the complete opposite direction which I knew what he was doing because he smelled a bird but I wanted him to get the one that was still it was somewhat crippled I mean it wasn't going to go far but I didn't want to dive and get too far away. But he wanted to go to the one that was over to his left in the buck brush that he could smell and I had to give a couple corrections there and get him to go to that bird on the right that I wanted him to go get. And I got frustrated and the guys were you know I was shaking my head and we got back to the side by sides and man that was amazing. And I was like it was all right but like man we've never seen dogs like that work and I was like well I mean it was it was an okay you know pickup there. I mean the other blinds were easy and uh so that I had they kind of put me in check and you know made Me realize, hey, you know, one, it was like 22 degrees that morning. Uh so it was cold. Yeah. It was real cold. Uh, I mean, we were breaking ice the whole hunt. Uh, he was Harker was breaking ice making those retreats. Um, so you know, he was a little cold, and you know, he wanted that bird real bad that he could smell. So I was like, oh, you know, I need to cut him some slack. So yeah, yeah. But um, we went back to the lodge and you know, had uh ate some breakfast and you know, I gave him some snacks and petted on, loved on a little bit so he knew I wasn't mad at him. Yeah, yeah. Uh but yeah, I would say don't give up. Uh again, ask questions. Um, don't be afraid to talk. I mean, it doesn't matter who it is. You know, if you see them and you think they could help you out, just ask them a question. Um, because a lot of times, especially the pros, like they're the the thing with Clark Canyon that stood out to me, and he doesn't even remember this because I I pre-trained with him this past fall. And I said, Do you remember the first time you met Harker nine? He said, Man, I really don't. That's what I do. And it was at Cherokee Foothills Hunt Test. And that's the first time we ever ran on a tech pond. And Harker got out there. He had to do two water entries, and he got to that second point and turned around and popped. Never seen him pop in training. Like I knew of it, but I didn't in the moment, like it was just a brain fart. I didn't know what to do. I was afraid to do anything really. And I just tweeted him in and caught him off the bird, and we failed that test. Um, and I was walking up the hill, you know, hanging my head low and uh walking back to my truck. Clark walked by. He said, Hey man, he said, don't worry about it. He said, It happens to all of us. He said, When I get done running this dog, I'm gonna come talk to you. And he came and talked to me, explained what was going on, you know, told me what to go home and train for. And man, that that meant a ton to me. And I mean, if it hadn't been for that, I might not be sitting in the position I am with Harker.
SPEAKER_01:I mean, I might have gave up. That's so interesting. I I'll tell you something, Lynn, and I I I'm not just saying this 'cause you and I are talking. You and he are two of my favorite guys in this in this industry of the trainers. I I I talk to you and him pretty regularly. And uh he's a he's a fine person, I think. I mean he's a good dude. Oh yeah. Um and humble.
SPEAKER_02:Very and he's he's exactly who you think he is. Like there's no, you know, uh hoopla or anything like that. I mean, Clark is exactly who everybody and who he says he is.
SPEAKER_01:And you know, he's an example, just like yourself, of determination and hard work, and you'll get it. Uh he I he he says he works hard. I've been with him, and he he he I never seen anybody go like that in training, and he he just puts in the time and the patience, and that's what it takes. You don't get to his level or your level of success by being lazy or impatient.
unknown:Yeah.
SPEAKER_01:So I mean, I we're all guilty of it at some point, but now just for the listeners, uh uh, because I remember when I first started hearing these terms, I didn't know what it meant. But what just tell everybody what it means to pop when a dollar comes.
SPEAKER_02:Um so Harker got to that point, and typically it's they lose confidence or they've lost their way onto the mark, um, and they turn around and sit down, you know, like you just blew a whistle. Um they're looking for help from you. Um I had a handle, and like I said, my brain was not working, and I should have just cast them and rolled on with it. Um but you know a lot of times it happens pattern, it can happen pattern blind field. Um, you know, once you start running cold blinds, they start popping because they they're not quite confident where they're going. You know, they know that the word back means go. Just dig back until I blow the whistle and tell you to change direction. Um so you know, I hadn't experienced that to that degree, and uh, you know, that's that's when he popped.
SPEAKER_01:Well, it's uh yeah, I I've I've seen dogs do that, and that's why I now know what it means the hard way. But uh but yeah, and it so if you don't, if we got time, I think tell me what you learn now or a way to work through a dog popping. Because it's a common thing.
SPEAKER_02:Yeah. Um the main thing is don't lose your cool. You know, don't be pouring pressure to them through a collar. You know, the way I do it is I start closing the distance to them. Um now on water it's a little difficult. Um typically I try to run something where, you know, if I need to walk out to a point, I might have to walk around a little cove of water or something, but I can still close the distance to them to give them the physical presence to push them on out. Okay, because I mean, now if you can just cast them back and they turn and go, I mean, you're good to go. But some of those dogs, they just get scared and nervous, they don't want to make a mistake. Um, like I mean, Harker's a perfect example, my lab's a perfect example. Like both of them are extremely methodical. They don't like to mess up, they want to please you all the time. And for them, if I start closing that distance versus just, you know, keep giving that verbal or that hand signal uh to dig back, um, they take that much faster if I just close that distance and you know give my physical presence to push them on out. And then we just rerun it and you know, if they pop again, um, you know, try it again.
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SPEAKER_02:Um, I mean, I'm gonna look at the female side. I'm gonna look at um is she steady at the line? You know, I want to see it at least a grand title. Um, because if if you're if you have a grand title, you're steady. Um not knocking on master national, anything like that, but I mean, the movement at the line is allowed at at that level. I mean, even master tests, they can move. I mean, weekend tests, they can move a little bit, but if they're past that gun barrel and they don't, and I mean, if you're if you're shooting and they're past that gun barrel, you know, they're they're pretty much gonna be out.
SPEAKER_03:Yeah.
SPEAKER_02:Um, but so I mean, the female side, I want to see at least a grand title. I want to know that she can handle pressure, but is still methodical. That's just my personal preference. Um, I mean, to have a fire breather is great, but as far as to have to go, I mean, a dog can have all the go in the world, but have no brains to put with it, and you know, you're still in just as much trouble if it had no go in all the brains. Um so that that's what I want to see is is some brains. They gotta have some go. Uh I mean colors don't really matter to me. I don't it's whatever. If the dogs can do it, they can do it. Yeah. And there's there's still dogs out there that you know they don't throw themselves.
SPEAKER_00:That's right.
SPEAKER_02:Um I mean, I've seen uh I would say like Harker and Freya, they're brother and sister or half brother and sister. And I would say they got most all their dad and basically nothing from their mom's side. Um maybe the temperament from their mom's side a little bit, uh as far as the off switch. Uh but as far as hunting-wise, they pretty much got everything from their dad's side. Um so you want to see that a longer lineage of puffies and see tests tests are great. Um just because it is a you know, that is an achievement you can see on paper, you can see it online, and it is proven that they can accomplish that level to those abilities. Um, you know, anybody can tell you they're a great hunting dog. But if you if you can get a chance to go hunt with them, you know, that's great, or go train with them and see how they do. Um which, like when I was researching the wire hairs, I mean, that's what I did. I mean, I went to several different breeders and watched their dogs. And uh, you know, that's how I ended up making my decision on Arthur just because I watched his parents work and you know, forfeited my deposit on a litter that I had elsewhere. Um just because his parents were that impressive to me. Um but I mean I definitely want to see the higher end on on the female side. I mean, the male could be HRCH is as far as I care. I mean, as long as it's a good dog and it's steady at a test, it's steady in the blind. Um, no, if there's any vocalization within those lines, I'm out.
unknown:Yeah.
SPEAKER_02:Because that is I'm not a scientist, but from what I have seen, it is a hundred percent genetic.
SPEAKER_01:You know, I I was just came back last week. I was actually a week ago to today, I just finished up watching the IGL in in Scotland, and you know, that's some of the that's the best retrievers in the United Kingdom. Uh there's generally 58 to 60 dogs in it. Um and I was talking to one of the competitors who'd he'd he'd gotten washed out at the end of the first day. Pretty tough challenge of test. Anyway, he was telling me, he's like, Man, I've got a really good dog I'm gonna sell just because I can't compete with it here. Uh and he had great health tests, like uh the the best hip score you can get, an elbow, all the good stuff. But he said he's vocal. And you know, they that's they're real strict about that. Like you it's you're they're out. And uh but he was honest, you know, he said, hey, it's it can do anything you want, but he's vocal. Right. And uh you know, there it's it's definitely a no-go. But yeah, I I I'm not a vet or a scientist either, Lane, but I really I believe it's genetic. I don't know that, I can't prove that, but it from what I've seen, and I'm a 57-year-old man that's seen a lot of dogs, you know, and hunted all over the place. I think it is.
SPEAKER_02:Oh yeah. I mean, I know someone that has a female, I don't remember how many times they bred it, but I know that they have a few puppies of their own from that same female, and the female's vocal, and all two or three puppies, I can't remember how many they kept. Um, all of them are vocal. Yeah.
unknown:Yeah.
SPEAKER_01:I mean, bad. You know, like we're sitting here, I've got a pup, a four and a half month old sitting right there, and you know both her parents. Uh, and she's not made of peep. And she's looking right at me in a crate. Uh so I love that, you know. But I've got I got a pointer that that uh he's not vocal hunting, but he whines if I go outside and don't and and I get one of the dogs, don't get him. Oh, he can't he's he whines like a baby, and he's a big old grown, middle-up English pointer, you know. Oh yeah. Uh oh yeah.
SPEAKER_02:I mean, that's I mean, I had short hairs growing up. Um, you know, I'm I don't I don't think I've ever met a short hair that didn't whine, moan, and groan about, you know, getting another dog out or, you know, you leaving them in the crate and walking outside for a minute. I mean, that I think that's just part of being a short hair. I mean, the the mixed breed I have I mean, he does the same thing. I mean, there's nothing I can do about it. You can put all the bark collars and all that in the world on him, and he's still gonna do it.
SPEAKER_01:Now it's just something so and I agree, I have I share your philosophy on lab pups and looking for a lab pup. And and I I also again I'm not a scientist, but I also think the female is actually more important than the male. I really believe that. I think so. I I can't back it up scientifically, but I I think that's the case. And and and horses, dogs, you know, I fool horses a long time ago. But uh yeah, I I think that's the case. So now one thing I don't know bloodlines or or titles or anything. If you're looking for it for a wire hair or a draught, uh is the German test title, is that stuff important to you?
SPEAKER_02:I mean, I'll look at it. Um I mean it does it does help make a decision for me, but I mean, I don't it's not a final decision factor. You know, I I really want to put, you know, eyes on that dog. You know, I want people to if I can't get there, I want to see pictures and videos. Um, I want to see not just, you know, when they slammed the point just right, or you know, they made an awesome retrieve last season. I mean, I want to see everything they did when they screwed up. Um, I want to see them in training videos, you know, going through different scenarios of whatever it may be. Um, whether it's pointing, you know, up on work, tracking work, uh, or uh waterfowl work. I mean, I I want to see the good, bad, and the ugly. Just because I mean if you have an idea of what you're getting into on that side, seeing the whole realm of things, then you have an idea of, you know, what the parents may or may not throw.
SPEAKER_01:Well, uh the last question I want to ask you, and and I I'm just because I'm just curious, you know, one of the there's peerists that say, you know, if you own a retrieving dog, get a retriever, if you own a pointing dog, get a pointer. You know, and that's the that's in response in a conversation about versatile breeds. But obviously, you're living proof that a versatile breed can actually do it all. Oh, yeah. That being said, you being a guy who's trained retrievers, owns retrievers, uh was retrieving natural for Harker? Very that's I love that. I mean, that's I didn't know. I I I've never tried to teach a dog that's not a retriever to retrieve. Uh yeah.
SPEAKER_02:I mean, with with the white most wire hairs, you have to teach them like force fetch changes everything for them. Um and I don't do like I I'll I'll probably call it fetch program more than anything. Um, but most listeners understand they've heard force fetch. Yeah. But like I'll use whatever method the dog wants me to use. So I mean, I might start traditionally with, you know, put in front of their face, and if they don't fetch, you know, you know, we add some type of pressure. Um if the dog doesn't respond to that over a day or so, then I might switch to like freeform fetch, or I might go to um I might switch to a bird real fast or put a zip tied wing on a bumper or whatever it may be. Um or dog and field, something like that. It's a company in the UK um that makes a bumper where you can put things inside the bumper, whether it's food, um, a squeaker, I mean, any little thing to entice that dog to reach out there. Because training different breeds, they all are very different. And, you know, you try to force fetch a Britney the old school way, and it it's you're gonna have trouble for most of them. Yeah. Um, I mean, grafons, even some wire hairs are pretty sensitive to pressure. Um, so you you have to kind of get creative sometimes and you know, just play with the dog and see what they react to and what they're willing to do, and then go back and overlay some minor pressure, depending on what level they're wanting for that dog. Um, because that owner's got to be able to have a way to make them fetch. Um, and you know, if you have to just tower over them and tell them to fetch real stern, you know, if that works, that's great. If you have to go up there and, you know, grab just lightly touch their ear like, oh man, like I better pick that bird back up and you know get get straight.
SPEAKER_01:Interesting. Um well I didn't know that, you know, I didn't know if if if with the versatile dogs, if retrieving was a chore or if they had some natural retrieve in them. And I guess it's probably due to the German standards of breeding, right? Or they're testing. Because they have to retrieve it.
SPEAKER_02:I mean wire hairs are pretty possessive, you know. They want to grab that bird and make a parade around with it and show it all. I mean, cockers are the worst. Yeah, they love to show off what they just picked up. Yeah. Um, and that's probably one of the hardest things with a cocker to get them to stop doing. Yeah. And uh, bumming it, you know, when they're young, you know, we I we let it happen and then we dial them back. Okay. Um but so for for the wire hairs, it's you have to teach them, hey, you know, that's your bird, but you got to give it to me when I say give it to me. Um, you don't really have much problems with them wanting to grab a hold of something and pick it up and bring it back.
SPEAKER_01:I like it. Yeah, you're right. The cockers do like to parade around, prance around. Oh, yeah. They're proud. Yeah, I like and I love that. That's kind of fun to watch them. Um, Lane, I know you got a you I know you probably had a long day and you're getting ready for some bad weather. Um, and you know, heck, I'll be seeing You about a week from today, roughly. Yeah.
SPEAKER_02:Yeah, we it actually whatever the 11th is. Yes. Whatever day that is.
SPEAKER_01:Is that the day? Well, I should not say it on here, but 11th and 12th is when we're hunting, right? Uh today in the 11th and hunting the 12th and 13th. Okay, 12th and 13th. Good. You worry me there a little bit. Uh I think I was hunting 11th, too. But anyway, no, so that'll be good. I'll be seeing you then. Uh it's so funny, man. You and I talk all the time, and uh we've never met in person. Ain't that crazy? So we'll get to do that finally.
SPEAKER_02:Well, I'm not uh I got some of that retriever fuel coming. Uh I'm hoping it it's here before our hunt next week.
SPEAKER_01:Um I think it's supposed to be here tomorrow. I'll have some. I'll be bringing some and uh I actually did hit podcast with him yes last night. Oh, did you really? Yeah, yeah. But I have I met Chad uh he had a booth beside of me at Duck at Delta shoot at Ducks Unlimited. Okay. Did you get a booth beside of us?
SPEAKER_02:Uh I've got um I'm gonna have a trial that weekend, so I'm gonna stay. Okay, okay. I'm gonna start running dogs. So Okay. I'll I'll be there in 27 for sure.
SPEAKER_01:Okay, good. You'll love it. You'll like that. Well, Landon, thank you so much. Um tell everybody one last time how they can find you. Uh so you can find me Facebook or Instagram at Wirehair Outdoors. Okay. All right. Well, hey, good luck in the future and uh congratulations uh again with Harker and getting a grand title on the on a wire hair and being the first guy to ever do that. That's a big accomplishment. Thank you. Thank you. All right, Landon, we'll see you, brother. See ya. All right. Hello, this is Kenneth Whipp with Gundog Nation. I'd like to encourage all you listeners and viewers on our YouTube channel to check out patreon.com forward slash gun dognation. For$10 a month, you can become a member of our community and we'll have access to lots of stuff. Mainly we'll do a monthly forum, an open forum where you can ask me anything gun dog related and we'll learn from each other in the community. Should be a lot of fun each month. We will do that. So check it out patreon.com forward slash gun dognation.