34. Finding Peace When Life is Chaotic

If life feels like a lot right now, you’re not alone. Between travel, kids out of rhythm, tech chaos, exhaustion, and trying to hold everything together, Jena and Debbie sit down to process a month that felt like too much — and to read the passage that’s been anchoring Debbie’s heart for weeks: Psalm 103:1–13.

In this episode, they talk about:

• The five small words that change everything: “forget not all His benefits”
• Why God disciplines but never punishes His children
• What Scripture actually means when it says He is “slow to anger, abounding in love”
• How to let the peace of Christ blow the whistle in your heart
• Why “east from west” forgiveness is something you can actually rest in
• Simple micro-habits that make spiritual life doable in a full season

And of course… stories from NASCAR to the Biltmore to toddler meltdowns to white pants postpartum. 😅

If you’ve felt overwhelmed, stretched thin, or like you’re barely holding it together, this conversation will remind you of who God is, what He’s already done, and why you don’t have to carry all of this alone.

QUESTION OF THE WEEK:
What is one benefit of God you don’t want to forget this week?

—

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Transcript

Not only my past sins, any sins, past, present, and future. Yeah. Oh, Jiminy
Christmas. I would run in high. Jiminy Christmas. Oh, sorry. You've never heard that
one probably have you. Oh, I'm sorry. Keep going. Jiminy Christmas. Keep going.
Okay. Well, I'll try. I'll try.
Debbie. Well, hey there, Jenna. How are you doing? Well, honey, it's been a crazy,
it's been a crazy morning and that's how I need to say but you know, in light of
your life in my life I said to you it's a first world problem. Yes, it is a
first world problem but it is like a problem that I feel like, you know. For
women. For women. Yeah. We just like to look a certain way when we're not looking
the way we want to be looking we get a little agitated by it. I totally
understand. I was commenting how we're both wearing white pants And I said, Debbie,
postpartum, Jenna, does not wear these white pants in public without my butt being
covered. It's just not where we're at. It's just not where we're at. Oh, gosh.
Well, it's been a while since you and I have actually seen each other. We both
were traveling. We like started doing some recordings. We got all excited and then
like all the tech mailed us. It was just, you know, fun times. That's right. Most
things don't go as you plan. And then you have to punt and go to plan B. And
that's all right. That's okay. So if you've been waiting a long time to hear our
podcast again, the reason is because we're traveling, life has been busy, and
technology chooses not to work sometimes. And we're videoing now. But the good news
is I've had quite a few people say, where's your podcast? I've been looking for it.
So that's exciting. So we're back. Yeah, we're back. We're back. So what have you
been doing for the past month? Where did you travel to, even though I know the
audience does not know. Right, right. Well, you know, it's really funny because Steve
and I were talking about this. You know, he's the ministry slash business that he's
involved in. One of the things that they're doing right now, they've kind of
partnered with Young Life, which is a ministry that we just love because it's for
teenagers and college kids. And they are sponsoring a NASCAR. Yeah.
And so he's gotten very involved in now. Is it a NASCAR or a NASCAR car? It's,
ooh, NASC, ooh. Now, you shouldn't ask me that, because I'm not really sure.
I'm not really sure. Somebody can tell us what the actual answer is. It's a NASCAR
race. And this car is with Joe Gibbs race team. Yeah. And the driver, we just love
him. His name is Eric Amarillo. Okay. Dear, just a precious man, love his family
and his wife. So anyway, he said, what did we do? We went to Bristol. This has
been three weeks ago. Yeah. So we had a bunch of clients coming up for the race.
And Jenna, this is crazy because I had never been to Bristol. Oh, my gosh.
I haven't been either. Oh, my gosh. I was so unprepared for Bristol. It's bigger
than Nissan Stadium. It's massive. Well, NASCAR's like a very big thing.
It's huge. That I have no vantage point for. I don't know anything about it. Right.
We're learning. Yeah, I'm sure you're learning a lot. But we, I mean, we came
around the corner and some of the other people he works with was in the car with
me. We came around the corner and it just took my breath away. It's like the
Coliseum in Italy. It was kind of like the Coliseum only with NASCAR.
And not gladiators, sure. So we went there for two days, but here was the fun
part. So I was up in the suite with a bunch of clients And so we even had nine,
I think it was nine Young Life students there that were invited. And Eric,
our driver, won the race. Oh, win, win, win all around. We went crazy. So I kind
of got into NASCAR that night because we just all went nuts in the suite, just
jumping up and down. So that was fun. But here's what's funny. So we left Bristol,
noisy, loud, fast, wild and crazy. and Steve and I drove to the Biltmore,
which is glorious. We've talked about this. Which is quiet and beautiful and peaceful
and slow. So I told Steve he got the best of his vacation and I got the best of
mine. And I told one of his employees, you know, we saw each other than the other
night at the factory. One of his employees was talking, oh, actually, with two guys,
they were talking to me about Mind and Steve's marriage and I said, you can sum up
our marriage in two words. Oh, I'm like so intrigued to hear what this is. Two
words will sum up mine and Steve's marriage. What is it? Fast, slow. He wants to
do everything fast, everything is fast, our whole married life. And I like snow.
I like slow. We had a boat one time. He'd love to go fast. I'd love to go
through the river channels and go slow. We would go snow ski and he would point
the skis downhill and I would meander and just go across the site. So he likes
fast. He got the NASCAR and I went to the Biltmore and it was slow and peaceful
walks. So that's some of what we... Well, that tracks for me too,
I'm thinking about Steve because when we first had an inkling that we were going to
do this podcast, he bought up, I kid you not, audience, like 20 URLs that are
related to my Southern Godmother to potentially have merch and other websites and
websites on websites that have stores. And I was like, this is more, this is faster
than even me. And I'm fast. We didn't even have a podcast yet. And he bought all
of my life. He said he's in, female state, FYI. Oh, yes. He's in fast motion most
of the time. Yeah, we relate to each other on that. So that's been just a little
bit of our life this month. Tell me about yours. Well, we were also gone for what
felt like a month. Quite literally what felt like a month. And, you know, we were
back, both of our families. Both of our families are from Pittsburgh. So we went
back home to Pittsburgh because my husband's brother, so my brother -in -law was
getting married. And then my husband's cousin was getting married. And so we like
stayed with my family, but then we like drove to his family a lot. And we kind of
had three trips in one, Debbie. Oh, wow. With two little children. With two little
kids. Like, it was just coordination and exhaustion. And Brent had to leave for a
couple days for his own work trip. And it was just, we were talking. I mean, I
don't think I've been that tired since investment banking days. Like, I truly don't
think I've been that tired ever. I just, like, couldn't function. I was so exhausted
from the kids and just traveling and trying to work while also like trying to
manage family and just like all of the things and making sure that we're going from
here to there and like it was just a lot of work. It was not restful. Well, and
getting little children out of their rhythm and the routine and their own rooms.
It's really difficult. Yeah, Vivian was having a little bit of a hard time. I'm
sure. More than she typically does. Beckett got this crazy rash all over his body
while We weren't. My mom was watching him. She's like, he has a bad rash. I'm
like, oh, I'm sure he's fine. Sure enough, I come home and it's like all over his
body. And she's like, I don't know what to do. Probably something he ate. He had
like a viral reaction the doctor said. And it just like stayed for a week. But
anyways, it was just an adventure that we probably don't need to go on again for
like a very long period of time. Brent's like, we're done going to Pittsburgh. Here
are this family. We are done going to Pittsburgh for the foreseeable future, we are
never coming back. So if parents and in -laws listen to this? Yes, they can come to
us. We're not going to y 'all. We're taking a break. Oh, Jenny, you know what you
just said? What? Maybe one first times I've ever heard you say that. What? You said
y 'all. Oh, Debbie, I say it all the time. I used to say it when I lived in New
York and everyone's like, girl, you are not from the south. You're not from the
Northeast. Well, maybe I've just never paid any attention but you said y 'all and i
thought oh she is oh i read it in emails i like want people to think that i must
my goal in life is to be a southern godmother that's why we have this podcast okay
so i'm trying to train myself into thy ways okay of the you know y 'all but you've
got to say it's slower yeah i started saying fixing to because i'm around you too
much too much to vivian i go i'm fixing to tell you missy So I got to watch so
because she is repeating everything I say. The other day, she was going up to
Beckett, who is getting, he's crawling now. So that was a new advancement for us.
Oh, that's a big thing. He is no longer, as Brent calls a potted plant. He is, in
fact, a growing sprawling plant. He's like an ivy. And he's getting into everything.
And Vivian, sure enough, I look over and she's super sweet with him for the record.
She's so adorable. She loves him. They're super funny together and she makes him
laugh. But he was getting, I guess, into something. And she goes, no ma 'am, no ma
'am, because I say to her, no ma 'am, no ma 'am. I'm like, it's not quite right,
but like we're getting, like, I understand the sentiment. How cute. Hey, now here's
a question for you. Yeah. Do you, I would encourage you, because I wish I had done
this. Yeah. To get just a notebook and start writing down cute fun songs that they
say. You know what? I need to do that, but I've got, like, a way better.
And I took this from, believe it or not, Megan Markle, don't hate me people if you
don't like Megan Markle, which I have my feelings, all of the feelings around. I'm
not sure if I like, I don't like. But this is a really great idea that she had,
that she probably didn't have herself. But what she has done is she created an
email address for both of her children. And she claims that she writes them an
email every single night, to which I'm like, that's a lie. Who's doing that? I'm
sorry. Nobody should feel obligated to do that. But maybe on a weekly or a monthly
basis, sending my child an email and then giving that email address to all of the
grandparents and saying, why don't you send them emails? And then they get the
password on their 18th birthday. Isn't that a cute idea? That's a great idea. So I
am going to do it, but I'm going to do it digitally because it's 2025 and my
handwriting's not that good. But just right, well, ever how you do it.
But start keeping track of the cute things they say. Yes. Because I mean, they're
treasures. They're treasures. I know. I need like little recordings of her. So
anyway, so that's been my week. But I'm sure we'll get into more of that at some
other point. But it was just tiring. We were very happy to be home. We are
creatures of habit. Oh, yeah. We are eldest children. We like to be in control of
everything. Which we're not. Which we're not when we're traveling and in other
people's homes. Well, you're really not anytime, Jenny. You just think you are. We've
had that conversation. You know, it's always a work and progress, Debbie.
That's why I'm here. It's such a deception. We're never in control. We think we
are, but we're not. Yes. Well, I know that today we are, you know, back at it,
back in the saddle, so they say. And I know that you had some thoughts about where
you wanted to potentially take today's episode and for our listeners, just like
listening to what's going on in the world and just what's going on in life. Right.
Well, there's a lot going on in the world. Yeah, that's for sure. There's a lot
going on in the world. And, you know, I thought I was going one direction and
just, I didn't have a piece about it. Yeah. You know, are you familiar with that
scripture that says let the peace of Christ rule in your heart? I mean, familiar as
in it sounds like something I should memorize. Okay. Well, that's an interesting
thing. It says, let the peace of Christ rule in your heart. And that word rule,
let the peace of Christ rule in your heart, is the same, it has the same meaning
as a referee blowing his whistle to stop. Like there's a foul or something's
happening. So the referee blows his whistle, stop. And it's the same connotation in
that scripture. It has the same meaning. It means let the peace of Christ rule,
blow the whistle in your heart. And if you feel like something's off or not right,
stop and don't do it. Yeah. So I just didn't have the piece of Christ in my
heart. He blew the whistle. And I stopped and I pivoted and I said, no, we're
going to do something else. Yeah, I love that. How does that sound? That sounds
great. I have no idea what we're going to talk about today. I know you don't. I
know you don't. Well, you know, this is interesting. And, Jenna, you know we've
talked about this. Sometimes I have to get out of my own head with this podcast.
Because usually if I'm teaching Bible lessons here at my house or if I'm teaching
at a conference, I do a lot of preparation. For those of you watching this, I can
over prepare. So this has been a stretch for me. Yeah. Not to have to prepare too
much. Prepare enough because we're always called to prepare. I think you'll be ready.
But I have been sitting in this Psalm for months. And I just keep going back to
it. You know, sometimes you'll have a scripture or a particular book in the Bible.
And you just keep going back to that because it's speaking to you. And it's like,
yeah, I just, so I'm going to read, I'm not going to read the whole Psalm, but
I'm going to read part of the Psalm. And then there are five words in that Psalm.
It's a short sentence. And that's what we're going to talk about. Love it. How does
that sound? It sounds great. How does that sound to you guys? They're saying yes,
Debbie, yeah, yeah. Yeah, yeah. So it's, for those of you that want to read along,
we're going to read Psalm 3 versus 1 through 13. Psalm 103 versus 1 through 13.
And then we're going to talk about the five words that I keep kind of looking at
in this, okay? What made you pick this song to begin with? You know, I really
don't know. One morning I was just, I was looking for different Psalms to just kind
of look at. I love the Psalms. And sometimes I'll put on some real beautiful
instrumental Christian music in the background as I read it. Yeah. And I just love
the Psalms. I mean, I love a lot of scripture, but sometimes. So for some reason,
I've been stuck in this one. Yes. Yeah. Stuck in this one, all right? Okay. So
here we go. And then we're going to talk about those five words. Okay. As a matter
of fact, here's a little challenge for you. Oh gosh. Okay. Go ahead. No. As I read
these, I'm going to see if you can guess which five words stuck Okay. Okay.
You ready? All right. Do we have the same version? Well, this is the new
international version. No, mine's not. So I might get different words, but that's
okay, but I might just soak it in. That's right. Just do that. And by the way,
this Psalm was written by King David. Okay. So this is David writing this Psalm.
You ready? Mm -hmm. All right. Praise the Lord, oh, my soul. All my inmost being,
praise is holy name. You know, I love that. Because think about this, we talk about
praising God, but he's saying you can even praise his name. Not just God himself,
but even the name of God is holy. Praise the Lord, oh, my soul, and forget not
all his benefits. Who forgives all your sins and heals all your diseases,
who redeems your life from the pit and crowns you with love and compassion,
who satisfies your desires with good things so that your youth is renewed like the
eagles. The Lord works righteousness and justice for all the oppressed. He made known
his ways to Moses, his deeds to the people of Israel. The Lord is compassionate and
gracious, slow to anger abounding in love.
He will not always accuse, nor will he harbor his anger forever. He does not treat
us as our sins deserve, or repay us, according to our iniquities,
for as high as the heavens are above the earth, so great is his love for those
who fear him, as far as the east is from the west, so far as he removed our
transgressions from us. As a father has compassion on his children, so the Lord has
compassion on those who fear him. Actually, do have the NIV apparently,
because I read that word for word alongside. Well, there you go. So I'm just
curious. Actually, this is the Bible I do that. All right. Well, I'm just kind of
curious. First of all, do What do you think those five words are?
Okay. And then we'll talk in a minute about some of the things that stuck out to
you. Do you have any idea which five words I'm going to talk about? Compassion or
some variation of compassion because it's used a lot in Scripture. Well,
I didn't actually, no, I did not say that right. It's not five separate words.
Oh. Okay. I need the audience to send us a message and say,
how did you interpret that? Because I also heard five separate words. Well,
here's what's funny. I have learned something about myself, and several people have
told me this recently. Which is what? I take things literal. I mean,
just literal. So when I said five words, I meant five consecutive words, not five.
Oh, gosh. Okay, now I've got to figure this one out. Well, that's all right. No,
you don't have figured out.
No, Now I'm at a loss, y 'all. Okay, you're going to have to just tell me.
I'm going to be here for days, count in five words at a time. Okay, all right.
Well, this is the thing that I keep going back to, and it's in the very second
verse and says, forget not all his benefits.
It's like David is saying he had to remind himself and remember the things that God
had done for him. So I've been thinking about that a lot. Yeah. Because what it
tells you is we can forget. Yes. We can forget. So what I'd love to kind of talk
about, first of all, I'd love to ask you, was there anything that kind of stuck
out to you? Yeah. But then I'd love us to talk about some of his benefits for us.
Oh, I love that. I love that idea. Isn't that great? Well, I do love this Psalm.
I have read this Psalm before. I think the one that stuck out to me of just maybe
if somebody is listening to this and they grew up in a church and they grew up a
certain kind of church and were exposed to Christianity and Jesus maybe in a facet
that left a bad taste on their tongue. And this happened to a lot of people. Yeah,
right. And I've been environments like that too for a variety of reasons. But what
I found to be helpful that I was reading that I like to read was verse 8 where
it says, the Lord is compassionate and gracious, slow to anger, abounding in love.
And then I could go on. He says, he will not always accuse, nor will he harbor
his anger forever. And I feel like that's just such a good reminder.
Sometimes it feels, now I'm not a theologian. I am not one of those people who is
able to excavate scripture and pull out the Greek and the Hebrew and all that kind
of stuff. That's just not been... But I'm always curious when I read this piece is
because I feel like sometimes the sentiment about God is that he is angry. He is
fast to anger and he's not really abounding in love. I think our definitions around
love have changed or have evolved over the years and the scriptural definition of
love looks very different than like 2025's version of love. So we could dissect that
if we really wanted to. I'm not saying we need to, but that I just felt like that
verse was something that popped out to me. I didn't just like thinking about people
that are listening that might have, might have a feeling that God is really angry
at them all the time or, you know, isn't abounding in love and actually wants harm
for them and, like, to punish them and, I gotcha, you know? Like, sometimes I
honestly feel that way, probably, too, that I know that I'm a sinful person, and
so, oh, just here we are again. God's going to be quick to show me that he's
ticked about that. Like, it's like, you know, can go into my brain at least. I
don't know if anybody else. So I really um that verse within the chapter well you
said an interesting word you said the word punished yeah there's a big difference
between punishment and discipline yeah very true and punishment has to do with fear
so once we're in christ he does not punish us it actually says that disciplines
those whom he loves. Right. Those that are in Christ, do you discipline your
children? Yes. Why do you discipline your children? Because I don't want her to be
unruly. And just to be like a good citizen and good human and all those different
reasons. And because it's for her good. It's for her good. That's it, Jenna. You
wouldn't say, oh, just go do anything you want. Go play out in the street. Yeah,
right. I eat chocolate all night long. Oh, go jump off the balcony. Right. So there
are parameters that God gives us because he loves us. He disciplines those whom he
loves. He no longer punishes us. Once we come to Christ, we're no longer under the
wrath of God. You know, before you come to Christ, it says that we're under the
wrath of God. And that's why he provided Christ as a sin offering for us.
so we would no longer be under the wrath of God. So that's what he's saying here.
He's abounding in love. He's slow to anger, you know. And you can get angry with
your children, Jenna. But that's not the way you don't get angry with them to stay
angry. You might get angry and say, honey, mommy's upset because I know this is not
good for you. I know this is going to harm you not good for our for our family.
So that's the difference between discipline and punishment. Yeah. Totally makes sense.
Totally makes sense. Okay. What else? What else did you say? I also liked the 103,
sorry, in verse 5. Okay. Saying, who satisfies your desires with good things.
So kind of like the reminder. Sometimes I also feel like this, and I don't know
what this says about my psychology. Maybe I should go over this in therapy. That
like God doesn't care about giving us good things. Like that was something I really
had to unwind this belief that God wasn't, I thought before I met Brent that,
you know, what doesn't say in scripture, you're promised to husband. That's right.
Doesn't say that. Of course not. So but then I, but then I had to work out, do I
believe that God's a good God? And do I leave that this is a true desire of my
heart. And do, do I, like, I had to go through that process of, like, could he
want that for me? Could God want that for me? And that was a hard thing because I
almost didn't want to get hopeful for the good thing. Okay. In that an effort that
I'd be disappointed that God didn't give it. Yeah. That makes sense. Oh my gosh.
Yes. So I think that regardless of what the outcome is, like good things doesn't,
My good things, what I think is a good thing versus God's good thing. That's right.
Could be very different. Very different. But to know that sometimes those things do
align. Like the desires of my heart and God's good things for me can align. You
know? And so for me, it was just a reminder of I saw that to be true in my
life. Yeah. Oh, that's good, Jennifer. Don't you love it when you read a scripture
and that sometimes you'll read it and you don't see it? But years later, you go,
oh, man, I understand that now. Yeah. You know, I've actually lived this out. Yeah.
You know, the more we walk with him experientially, we grow to trust him.
We love him. We understand his love for us. So all of it evolves as we continue
to draw near to him. Yeah. So see, then you see him in a different light. I love,
I love this right here where it says he does not treat us as our sins deserve.
God, Legion, if he treated me, based on my,
not only my past sins, any sins, past, present and future, oh, Jiminy Christmas,
I would run in high. Jiminy Christmas. Oh, sorry, you've never heard that one
probably have you. Oh, my gosh, I'm sorry, keep going. Jiminy Christmas, keep going.
Okay. Well, I'll try. I'll try. But, I mean, he does not treat me as my sins
deserve. Sure. You know, it's kind of like, it's kind of like with Vivi. Let's say
Vivi really does something that I, and she really misbehaves and does something she
shouldn't, and she really disobeys you. Yeah. And rather than you going and spanking
her or whatever you do, you go and you do not treat her as her behavior deserves.
You know, think how a child feels when you extend grace to them, when you extend
mercy to them, when you do not treat him the way that they deserve. If that makes
sense. Yeah. Yeah. Totally. So for me, what a gift. What a gift that he does not
treat us as our sins deserve or repay us as this or repay us according to our
iniquities. Hallelujah, Your Honor. My goodness. Who can stand? I mean, who can
stand? See, we tend to measure our sins and our faults and ouriquities against other
people rather than a holy God. Right, right. You see?
Yeah. But all have sin. He says, all have sin and fallen short of the glory of
God. Do you think in today's culture that people, let's say somebody's new listening
to this podcast because a friend gave it to them. Yeah. And they're like, this sin
thing. Nobody really, it's such an old antiquated thought or like, I genuinely think
that we are living in an age where people think that they don't sin. They don't
think sin's a real thing. Do you know what I'm saying? I feel like this is a very
like, you do you, that kind of whole idea is very much in the culture.
And so the idea that being saved by a holy God is kind of like, well, why do I
need to be saved? I don't think I really sin. Right. I think sins that with that
word that you Christian people use. So, like, what would you say to somebody that's
like, I don't think I sin? Like, I think that's an old, that's a dumb statement.
Yeah. It's a dumb word. Well, and, you know, first of all, you know, It makes me
really sad. Yeah. Because first and foremost, we are a spiritual being.
First and foremost, because what's going to happen to this? What's going to happen?
Yeah. It's going to be gone one day. You know, and sin is the one thing that
separates us from God. Think about that. Yeah. It's the one thing that separates us
from God. And I'm at a place in my life where It's sad to me that a lot of
churches no longer talk about sin. And many times it's because they're afraid of
rejection. They want everybody, they want to be tolerant with everything. And Jenna,
to me, the one thing that needs to be talked about the most is that there is sin.
We are sinners apart from God's grace until we come to Christ. So every person,
every person has sinned and fallen short of his glory. But there's going to be
things up in heaven where he's going to have like a whiteboard and be like, Jenna,
you thought you sinned here. Oh, yeah. Let me turn it over 15 times a year's all
the other ways you've sin. Oh, yeah. I'm petrified for that day. I mean, not really
petrified. But you know what I mean. But that's it, Jenna. And we, you know, I'll
never forget one time I heard Billy Graham interviewed. I think it was by Larry
King on a talk show. And Larry King, at least at that time, was not a believer.
And he was asking Billy Graham some questions. And he asked him, he said, what is
the thing you're looking most forward to when you get to heaven? And he was shocked
by Billy Graham's answer. Billy Graham said that I'll no longer have to deal with
sin. And he went, you're saying? That's what I'm saying, though. That's like a
thing. But even, which is so silly. I know. Even Billy Graham understood that we
will deal with sin until we take our last breath. And, you know, the Holy Spirit
is the one that convicts us of sin. It shows us, but yeah, it also says in
Scripture that our conscious can become seared, that we can become so depraved in
our behavior. That's Romans chapter 1. You know, for any of you that want to go
read Romans chapter 1, it talks about how we have exchanged. We have exchanged the
truth of God for a lie. And then we begin to walk in sin and we no longer pursue
God. And then we exchange all of his truths for a lie that it is actually our
behavior and our sinful nature that causes God not to be near us. So for me,
gosh, I mean, oh, I'm reminded of sin all the time, even in my own life.
Not just in action, but thoughts and words indeed. So when I'm convicted of sin,
I'm excited. Do you know why? Because as long as we're in Christ, the Lord loves
us so much that he does not want us to continue in sin. So when you reveal sin
to us gently and lovingly and does not treat us as our sin deserves, then we can
walk in the next place of light, walk in the next place of light. Does that make
sense? Totally. I'm thinking of two things. I'm thinking of Brent's least favorite
word that I use, which is after church in a sermon and go, oh, I feel so
convicted by. He's like, if you use the word convicted one more time, he's like,
you love to be convicted. And here's my thought. Here's my second thought. If you
leave your church service, not just like listen to somebody line. You leave your
church service and you don't feel convicted. You either have a pastor that's maybe
not preaching in a way that will make you feel convicted. So maybe we would like
evaluate that or you need to look inward. Because we should be leaving. When we
hear scripture, we should leave feeling convicted or noticing and reflecting something
that is that we can then take and be like, how is it separating me from God? Or
how do I grow closer to God? Like those are the two questions we should be leaving
when we're experiencing scripture and then sermon related to it. So I love being
convicted as well, Debbie. It's like my favorite thing. I'm like, oh, yes, I love.
I was so convicted by XYZ thing. And Brent's like, oh, nobody. Because then I'll
ask him, I said, so what did you think of the sermon? And Fred will say something.
And he knows conviction's coming. Because then he doesn't really say those things.
And I'm like, so I was convicted by this. Weren't you convicted by this too?
And see, that's the struggle, too, because you think just because you're convicted,
because think about it, Jenna, the Word of God not only convicts, it does a lot of
things. Sometimes it just encourages. Right, exactly. You see, so, like, I don't walk
out of church every time and feel convicted. Sometimes I'm encouraged. It says that
the Word of God. Erase everything that I said, guys. That's okay. That's okay. But
even the Word of God, it says it equips us. Yeah. So the Word of God does, it
rebukes, it corrects, it equips us, it convicts us. So the word of God does a lot.
So when we, whether we're at home or in church or in a Bible study, it can do a
lot of those things. It doesn't always convict. I think I use the word conviction
liberally. Maybe you're in a season of conviction. Okay, so I've been a conviction
season since I was like 18 years old that I guess. Or I just use that word very
liberally to describe all of those things that you... I think that's what you're
doing. I think it's probably what it is. Because we'll say... I'm thinking about a
sermon that our pastor gave and it was very encouraging. I was like, I was so
convicted by XY. Brent's like, oh. So see that, that's interesting.
So it may just be the word. You actually weren't convicted. You were just really
encouraged for that. Like I was, like, something jumped out to me. It's probably
what I think about it, and I'm like, I was encouraged by it, or I'm going to
change a thought pattern or something along those lines, even when I'm being
encouraged. I'm like, no, I still probably would use the word convicted, but I
understand what you're saying. And that's all right. And that's all right. You know,
there's a little passage that says that we should spur one another on. So even
sometimes the sermon can just spur us on. Or reading the Bible can just spur us on
toward, you know, works and good deeds. Okay, I have a question for you. This is
kind of throwing this at you. Yeah, yeah, yeah. And you might not know the answer.
You might need to think about it. We might need to talk about it later. But there
is scripture that talks about whenever you see sin in somebody else that's a
Christian to call it out, quote unquote, call it out. And I know that's like very
vague, but I'll give you an example of how this showed up in my life that was not
wonderful when somebody else called something out in my life. They were off. They
were really off. Oh, okay. And I was in, I was living in New York City, And I
was about to leave New York. Okay. And there was a group of friends that we were
friends with. We were probably like a little clicky. I'm going to be honest. We
probably were clicky. We enjoyed that we like enjoyed time with one another. And I
was starting to just only want to spend time with the people that I already knew
in New York because I was about to leave. I was like, I'm not going to make new
friends. Right. Like I'm about to go make new friends. Right. And there were two
guys that were in this group that were mad that I didn't want to go to this event
with a bunch of different people. Yeah. And the one guy sent me a text message,
long text message. Oh, and that's never good to do. Brandy, who we've talked about
on this, she was sitting right next to me when I got it. And it really affected
me. I mean, I'm still talking about it. That was 2017. Wow. This is 2025 when this
happened. And he basically told me that, like, I need to call you out on this
because I'm your brother in Christ, that you need to make sure that in the future,
you don't keep yourself closed off to friends. I'm like, okay, well, this is an
interesting thing to try and convict me up, but use the framing of because I'm your
brother in Christ. I have the right to convict you and to call out something in
you that, quite frankly, was not accurate of me or true of me at all. Right. I
was, my friend Brandy was way more offended by it than I was because she was like,
that's just not true of you. But that whole phrasing can get really dangerous,
though, too, in terms of you were talking about spurring each other on, which made
me think about what it means to call somebody out in their sin. Like,
what are your general thoughts around that? It's a doozy, but. Yeah, because that's
a dozy. And we can unpack that whole thing. But, you know, the first thing I
thought about is, And for those of you watching this or listening to this, never,
ever, ever text somebody if you have something like that that you need to say. See,
when you send a text, first of all, you can't hear the voice inflection. You can't
see their face. You really don't even know for sure what they mean by that. You
can take different phrases or words that sounds complete. So I just encourage anybody
listening. If you have something that you want to talk about with a brother and
sister in Christ, go to them in person. Yes, totally. That's what Scripture teaches
us, is to go to them. You know, Scripture tells us to speak the truth in love.
To speak the truth in love. There are passages that talk about going to your
brother or going to your sister in love. But, Jen, I think we have to be really,
really careful in the way in which we do. It's why it says speak the truth in
love. And I think sometimes people can think, oh, I need to just tell them the
truth or I need to just go to them. Self -righteousness. And brain conviction, which
they can, only the Holy Spirit can bring conviction. But I think that, I think
we're going to need to delve into that. Yeah. And I've been guilty of doing this
to other people as well. Like I can, I can, when I was a baby Christian and
learning about all these different things, that was an area that I was, I don't
know, I feel like people abused it. And then I feel like I probably, I definitely
abused it. I can look back on that season. I'm like, oh, I've repented to some of
my friends about the ways in which I did that. But I think about that instance and
how, you know, how many years later, it was something so innocuous and little
around, like, making sure that you make better friends and leave yourself open to
it. But if you're really trying to, you know, tell somebody and, yeah, I just used
to be so careful with it, I think, which we could have a whole other subject on
that. Well, we'll talk about that sometime and delve into it. Because it's, that's
another whole big thing that I think is worth talking about.
Yeah. So we'll do that. How does that same. That sounds good. That sounds good. As
we're closing up, Debbie, was there anything else in this scripture that you feel
like you came to light for you that you want to make sure our listeners here? And
then what would your like question be for everybody that's listening? Yeah. Well, you
know, just one other thing. And then it was real funny when it talks about for as
high or for as high as the heavens are above the earth. Yeah. Well, how high is
that, Jenna? High, high, high. There's no limit. Yeah. I thought about that.
I thought, how high are the heavens about, there's no limit? I guess they go on
forever. You see what I'm saying? There's no limit to the heavens above the earth.
That was the first thing. And that's how much he loves you. My gosh, if we woke
up every day and just thought about that, wouldn't that be incredible? Yeah. And
then the other one was, You know, when he says, we've heard this so much, as far
as the east is from the west. Did you know, and I'll tell you where I first heard
this, it was a pastor in Ghana, West African. He was preaching this sermon one day
on this. Yeah. And Jenna, he got up and he said, we usually think east to west is
from here to here. Right. East and West never meet. So he stood up and went in a
circle, literally. And he said, that's how far. It's not from point A to point B.
East and West never meet. And that's how far he has removed our sin.
So when we feel conviction and the Lord reveals some sin in our life, he says he
has removed it as far as the east is from the west. In other words, it's gone,
Jenna. I remember years ago, I heard somebody say it's like fishing. You know, the
Lord throws our sin into the depths of the sea, but we want to get out our
fishing pole. Yeah. And go back and dig it back up and wallowing it and feel sorry
for ourselves about it. He says he's removed it. Yeah. I mean, if we sat in those
two things every day that his love for us is higher than the heavens are above the
earth and that he has removed your sin as far as the east is from the west?
Is that a benefit? We go back to the very beginning and he said, David said,
forget not all his benefits. And he starts to describe the benefits and their
spiritual benefits. And so for me, what I had put down, I said,
have you've forgotten God's benefits in your own life? And then I'd like to
challenge those that are listening today. If you want to do this, just take a
minute today, five minutes, and write down some of the benefits in your life. Some
of the things that he has done for you, and it may come straight out of scripture,
but just write down a few things, a few benefits that God has done in your life
and not forget them. So that's what I would leave with everybody. It's a good word,
Debbie. I'm glad to be back with you. Same here, Jenna. Same here. We need each
other, girl. All right. We'll see you next week on another episode of my Southern
Godmother. There you go.