Scotland Podcast Studio's
Creator of Podcasts for King Street Studios, Johnston Media Podcasts,
Scotland Podcast Studio's
How An Open Access Rail Brand Plans A Direct London–Stirling Link And Why It Matters
We map how Lumo uses open access rail to compete with airlines on price and service, and why a direct London–Stirling link can reshape trips for leisure, students and business. We also unpack the plan for battery‑electric trains and the role of local suppliers onboard.
• What open access rail means and how risk drives value
• Lumo’s one‑class model with at‑seat service
• Competing with airlines on price and simplicity
• Recruiting ambassadors from aviation and hospitality
• Measuring satisfaction through constant feedback
• Why Stirling and the intermediate stops matter
• Leisure, business and university travel demand
• Local producers featured in the onboard offer
• Year‑round frequency to smooth visitor peaks
• Transition from diesel to battery‑electric trains
• Success metrics and potential extensions beyond Stirling
Welcome to Studio King Street. My name is Neil Monday, and I'm here to uh interview another guest today on the Sterling Business Podcast. I'm delighted that we have Stuart Jones, the managing director of FirstRail Open Access, with us today to talk about the new LUMO service that is um coming in the spring. So welcome to uh Sterling today, Stuart. Thanks, Neil. I'm assuming you got here by train? I certainly did. Uh as you came up from Glasgow. Oh, Glasgow. Okay. So um how often do you spend uh in Scotland?
SPEAKER_02:So it's getting more and more as we get closer to uh doing you know launching a new service here, but uh certainly at least once every four weeks.
SPEAKER_00:Okay. That's great. So tell the audience a little bit about um first real open access. What is it? And um and then we'll get more specifically into what that means to Sterling.
SPEAKER_02:Absolutely. So um first rail open access um looks after a couple of different open access operations. Um firstly, an open access operation is where the operator takes on full revenue risk and full cost risk. Um the upside is actually if that company does well, you then have the full rewards. Are these specifically train operators you're referring to? So yes, it's it's a train operation um which has a track access contract uh through the Office of Road and Rail, the regulator, um, to run uh a specific quantum of services. Uh so we have two operations uh to date, uh, and we're expanding to have two further operations, so we'll have four in total. Uh the two we run to date are Hull Trains uh between Hull and London, where we run seven services a day. Um and Lumo on the East Coast mainline between Edinburgh and London, where we're running five services a day.
SPEAKER_00:So um so the Lumo brand, how long has that been in existence specifically?
SPEAKER_02:Yeah, so the the business case um for uh Lumo came about um about 2015, 2016. Um but we didn't actually launch uh services until uh October 21. So we're just celebrating uh the fourth birthday. Um and it was the first time we launched with the Luma brand. So the Lumo brand's sort of been building over the last four years, um, and you know it's really really taken off.
SPEAKER_00:Okay, and specifically, uh you're saying three to four years in operation, uh, how many customers are using you? What what what are the uh the routes that you're currently running?
SPEAKER_02:Yeah, so so on on the Luma on the East Coast, so it serves um I say Enmer to London, um calling out uh Morpeth and Newcastle, and we're we're starting to see more traffic into Stevenish, which we're trying to expand our Stevenish offer to enable to get you know a Scotland to the southeast. Um but we we typically see you know 1.4, 1.5 million uh customers a year, uh, and that's growing.
SPEAKER_00:Okay, and what about the hull service?
SPEAKER_02:So that goes from hull to Yeah, so hold down to London, um, goes through uh the local communities of the Humberside, um, with Rough, Howard and Selby, and then joins the East Coast mainline at Doncaster uh and then calls at Retford and Grantham. Again, uh a similar um scale of business um to to Luma on the East Coast, um, but we've now sort of just I guess I say probably just broken through the 1.5 million. Um and and this year we're actually celebrating 25 years of that being in service. So that's that's probably a bit more mature in in where it's got to with uh establishing the market, but a real uh you know, what we've seen is a real support for that both within the local community.
SPEAKER_00:Brilliant. Okay. So what makes Lumo different than to the other operators? What's the differentiation um and and the premise behind Lumo as a brand?
SPEAKER_02:Yeah, so so when when we when we uh tackled this four years ago of the launch, um we were very much going after um the the air market with regards to ensuring that we were segmenting the market for rail in a way that enabled uh you know potentially people who didn't normally travel by rail to access rails. So primarily we're doing that through the price point. Uh so Lumo's USP is trying to make sure we're offering the best value uh fed customer uh and re-ensuring that we've got customers using the service. Um for us, we want to make sure we're using every seat all the way along the journey of the service. Uh, and we do that by you know making sure we've got a price point uh which works for the market. Um and you know, as I say, to begin with, that was very, very much focused on the air market. But that's that's that's you know that's expanded over time um as we're seeing you know uh you know more and more people drawn to the services.
SPEAKER_00:Okay, so that's that's an interesting concept, actually very similar to our model that we have with our our report hotel. We've gone boutique, we don't use the word luxury, but you've got one service, right? You don't or one uh class, you don't have multiple classes of services.
SPEAKER_02:Yeah, we've taken sort of this inclusive model where we believe um you know it's right to have sort of one um class travel throughout the service, uh, and we sort of treat everyone uh equally uh along that. So we have um two customer experience ambassadors which will serve along uh throughout the operation, uh, who will you know serve food and drink um at seat, um, and ultimately try and make sure our customers are as comfortable as possible uh throughout the duration of the journey.
SPEAKER_00:So it's interesting you use the uh the title of a customer uh experience ambassador. I I I spent a bit of time in the cust customer experience industry from a software point of view before I decided to do what I do now. And um that is quite unique in today's uh you know in today's marketplace because um customer experience should be getting better. Uh, you know, the relationship with customers through customer relationship management is obviously improving, but um actually with the introduction of technology sometimes you kind of see experience getting worse. You can't get a hold of people who had this very experience yesterday. So um how do you um manage and measure customer experience then to do do you survey customers?
SPEAKER_02:How do you uh absolutely we're we're really proud of um the results which we get through from our customer um satisfaction? Yeah, we we want that regular feedback loop. We want to make sure that we understand whether the customer is satisfied with what the product they're getting. You're not running out of hot water on the training. Yeah, exactly, but making sure we've got the right produce on board, uh and making sure that the the train is cleanliness, you know, cleanliness of the train. Um but I think you know where we've been able to recruit our um customer experience ambassadors from it's been really important, right? So we when we launched in 21, as I say, the the model was very much trying to make sure that we were in a position that we could compete um with uh with the air market, was that actually where the world was at that stage with the pandemic, um, we actually uh recruited a number of people coming out of the air industry. Um, with the air industry uh you know grounding a number of flights. Um it then meant actually that the in the marketplace we were able to recruit a number of um customer-centric um uh folk who you know in in the air industry is very much looking after you've got making sure you're looking after that customer because of how competitive uh the marketplace is. Um and we've also seen um a really good proportion of people coming from other industries, particularly the services and hospitality, um which you know, where where it's always about dealing with the customer first. Right. And that's really then translated in the experience on board and the service that our our staff are then providing.
SPEAKER_00:So customer experience absolutely paramount to the success of Lumo.
SPEAKER_02:Well, absolutely, absolutely. We we live and die by our customers. Um and so we really want to make sure that if a customer is travelling with us, that they have that right experience that they then want to travel again.
SPEAKER_00:You've just reinstated some faith and uh customer service for me. Fantastic. So okay, so if we bring it a little bit closer to Stirling, okay, we're sat in Sterling, right in the centre of Stirling, probably only at least two minutes' walk from here to the train station. Um why Sterling, London to Stirling with with this Lumino service? What made Sterling um?
SPEAKER_02:Yeah, so I think with Sterling, there is, you know, when when you're looking at a long distance service, um you you try and look for a market where you've got you've got confidence um that the market will work in both directions. Um so particularly, is there attractors there, right? And so we there's there's it's always naturally a market towards London. We know that there's a obviously a number of tractors there. But actually, when you look at Sterling, there's a number of tractors here, uh, which we think will be really, you know, a lot of uh the market would be really keen to understand, um, particularly from the south of the border. Uh and with the the the the the nature of the operation, which will serve a number of different locations along the West Coast mainline, uh we believe um Sterling would be will be a real attractor um for uh a number of different people.
SPEAKER_00:And what what demographics do you think are probably going to be the biggest consumers of the service?
SPEAKER_02:Well, traditionally we've seen uh leisure. You know, we've predominantly seen um a strong leisure market. I think, particularly when we're looking at um people coming north of the border uh and and obviously the the the outdoor activities on the doorstep of Sterling. Um but you know, I think where we've been in the past six months of the wider market, we've seen business travel pick up, uh, and particularly business travel on Lumo services, we're actually having you know a cleanly, uh you know, good, decent sized seat, good sized table, um, which is you know paramount for a a good working environment. Uh I'm confident we'll see um business travel as well. Um now obviously that business travel probably takes a bit longer to come through. Um we're we're confident we'll see you know leisure pick up quickly uh between the um the the various stations, but I think the business market will will be a slower build, but we're confident it will come.
SPEAKER_00:Okay. And the fact that we've got a university uh city here as well, I I guess you're probably gonna get a lot of um academia and and students struggle.
SPEAKER_02:Absolutely, absolutely. And we want to work closely with the university, right? Because you know, we we we believe from the experience we've had elsewhere, um, particularly the University of whole is is a is a good example uh where they've you know they've been adamant that their big you know uplift in um students is really driven by having that direct link to London. Uh it has uh you know gives that appeal to international students um knowing that they've then got that direct connectivity. So I think you know it really will help the university with the admissions. Um but obviously, you know, to get the it has to be the right product for them. Uh and that's where we're hoping that our our USP on price point uh will ensure that they're attracted to real.
SPEAKER_00:Yeah, I I guess that leads to the question um do you have or are you considering any sort of loyalty programs um for people, but like you find in the airline industry in terms of trying to kind of promote your servers for more people to use you um from a loyalty point of view, is that something you've done?
SPEAKER_02:So we've not done it to date. Um I think as we expand the Lume brand, that's certainly something we need to look at. Um I think where we've where we've been to date, uh it hasn't necessarily we've never not necessarily seen um that because of the markets we've been serving. And we've been serving some some some pretty large markets which have a lot of discretional travel between Edinburgh and London. But I think as we now look on the West Coast and we've got a number of communities we're serving, um which aren't necessarily off the same scale, um, what's gonna be even more important to us is ensuring getting that customer product right so that people will be looking to do repeat travel.
SPEAKER_00:Yeah, and it's actually there's some of these places on that west coast uh route that I've never even heard of. So in terms of the route itself, um Stirling, London, obviously, you know, well well-known kind of destinations and locations, but some of the some of the places en route, Wifflet, I've never heard of Wifflet as an example. What makes you choose the the routes that avoid the the made the major cities like Edborough and Glasgow in this example? Yeah, so I think what this is trying to be unique, yeah.
SPEAKER_02:Uh with with a you know, as we come out of Stirling, we've got Larbot, we've then got Greenfields for Cumbernaud, Wifflet for Copebridge and Motherwell. And and each of those actually is quite a large um you know population in itself, um, which we believe having a direct service there will actually um not only uh attract people to those communities, um but actually there's a connect that that the ability to then connect into other parts of the network. Um you know, as as I've sort of been um talking to various uh folk around Scotland, what's we really come across is the excitement around actually it's not just the cross-border bits which people uh are going to be seeing the benefit from, but just simple, you know, motherwell to sterling. Motherwell to sterling will become much easier with breaking.
SPEAKER_00:Otherwise you have to go into Glasgow and out of the way. Absolutely, correct.
SPEAKER_02:Absolutely. So um it may you know it may look strange to be bypassing um uh the likes of Edinburgh and Glasgow, but we believe there's enough population um and something different by by by serving these communities.
SPEAKER_00:Yeah, that's that's great. And and I guess um we have a uh a large sterling business audience who uh hopefully be listening to this podcast, certainly Ford Valley Wide, which incorporates Lava and some of those kind of uh you know those other areas. Um what's in it for the what are the opportunities you see for local businesses getting involved in this in this venture?
SPEAKER_02:Yeah, I think it I think it's um twofold, right? So where we've been on the East Coast uh with LUMO is we've really tried to differentiate our product offer on board um by working with um essentially local suppliers. Okay. Um and I think particularly as we talk about trying to bring um you know tourism, more tourism to to north of the border, um, we want to make sure that we've got the uh the quintessential the the the the the iconic local uh brands.
SPEAKER_00:Yeah, you've got some you've got a bit of have a bit of tartan in there somewhere.
SPEAKER_02:Exactly, exactly. But also, you know, as you walk around Sterling, okay, well what what what are the uh what's the local produce which means you know which put sterling on the map? And we want to be able to elevate um those bit you know the the opportunity for those businesses to be able to not only sell um beyond the full value, but you know, along our service. Um and I think we've done that, you know, we've we've got we've proved how that can work on the east coast. So I think so. I think it's I think it's you know local produce, absolutely number one. Um uh selling local produce on the trends. Exactly, yeah, exactly. Um and I think you know it's also just been able to bring that direct connectivity. Um and so actually Sterling becomes that much more accessible, Larbuck becomes that much more accessible, um, and you know, not only through um direct business, but actually also from the communities around that with regards to where people then decide to locate.
SPEAKER_00:Okay, great. And um I guess other service-related businesses like hospitality, you know, they're naturally gonna benefit by hopefully bringing more visitors to Sterling um out with the the international travelers that are coming and flying and self-drive. You're gonna have that.
SPEAKER_02:Absolutely. No, obviously we um as I was saying previously, we we want to make sure we've got as many customers on these trains as possible. Um, and obviously you want to have the right attractors to bring those customers to, and then and by attractors it's not only um the the the flagship um amenities, but it's it's making sure you've then got the services with it, whether it's restaurants, whether it's bars, whether it's hotel rooms. And so I think you know, particularly as we look through the course of the year, um recognising that tourists and go through sort of peaks and troughs, um, we're we're we're gonna be running you know 360 um free days of the year, with the exception of Christmas and Boxing Day, we'll be we'll be running every day. Um and so I think that really gives the opportunity to re-elevate um the uh the services sector.
SPEAKER_00:Uh just a couple of questions just specifically um relating to the rolling stock. So um, you know, any travel that's either on the road or on the rail sometimes get it gets a bit of a bad rap in terms of what it's doing to the environment. Um I hear your strategy is a little bit unique in that regard in terms of where you're going from a uh sustainability and renewable energy perspective. What's your um what's your take on that?
SPEAKER_02:Yeah, no, absolutely. So I mean what we've done on the East Coast is we're running um all electric trains. Okay. Um where we are with starting um currently is we're gonna be launching um with diesel trains. Um but we're hoping that that's only temporary. Um you know the application, the track access application, the track access agreement that we have to run services um predicates that we need to be reducing diesel running because of the power supply constraints with the infrastructure on the West Coast mainline. Uh, but we're hoping that those um uh constraints are uh are going to be overcome but through two two two ways. Uh we've we believe that there's government funding going in to improve the power supply. Uh but secondly, um we are now launching an application to buy new trains um with uh battery, electric battery um traction that will enable to service uh the sterling route.
SPEAKER_00:Yeah, absolutely.
SPEAKER_02:So we'll replace the sterling, it will replace the diesel um um uh rolling stock. Um and you know, we the dates we're looking at is around sort of December 28th currently. Um but the idea would be that you know where there is that if there are any then subsequent uh constraints with uh electricity, then actually we've got the battery to mitigate. So we're quite excited by this. Um there's quite a long way for us to go before we could see this become a reality and get been granted the permission to do it. Um but that's certainly our strategy. So whilst we may be launching with diesel rolling stock, our our long long-term ambition uh is to make sure that's uh an electric battery operation.
SPEAKER_00:I'm sure there'll be lots of the audience already happy to hear that. So that's fantastic. So um so just kind of wrapping up, Stuart, um what does success look like in two, three years from now? What would you like to see um LUMO, London, Sterling look like?
SPEAKER_02:Well, I I I think uh obviously for us we live and die by the footfall of customers, right? So we obviously need to make sure that we're attracting um customers to the services, but also really keen to see LUMO then become part of the fabric of the four-fat community. Uh, I think, as I mentioned, with the new trains potentially coming in December 28th, I think that'd be a great time after sort of you know, just over two years after launch for us to really take it on to another level. Yeah. Um, because those new trains will also bring additional capacity as well. So um, you know, success for us is you know ultimately is going to live and die by the number of customers which are using us. Um, but we think we can bring uh you know some significant um change to the area with uh by just by making things more accessible and improving the connectivity.
SPEAKER_00:And can you see the service extending beyond Sterling in that kind of time frame? Or uh no, absolutely.
SPEAKER_02:So we'll we'll look at all options. Um, you know ultimately we're looking long term to go with an electric battery operation. So the That then potentially limits the range of how further you know how far along the network you can go. Uh but we'll certainly look at you know whether we can go as far as Dunblane, for example. Okay.
SPEAKER_00:Yeah, we have a friend who will be very happy with that. That's brilliant. Stuart, thank you for your time. That's been a fascinating conversation. And um I'm sure that uh we'll get you back in the spring once we've launched and um uh wish you all the best. I think it's gonna be a fantastic addition to Sterling in the Fourth Valley and um really appreciate you making the time today to come along.
SPEAKER_02:Yeah, brilliant. Thank you for uh for inviting me along and uh yeah, we're really excited.
SPEAKER_00:Great. Thank you again for attending the Sterling Business Podcast and uh listening to uh my conversation with our guest today. Um I will be back within the next uh week to two weeks with a with another episode uh where we'll have some additional exciting content from another guest.