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What Everyone Should Know About Menopause And How To Navigate It

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We map out a clear, honest guide to menopause with an NHS specialist, from definitions and ages to impacts on work, relationships, and long-term health. We compare lifestyle strategies, HRT and alternatives, and share how community spaces like Menopause Cafe change the journey.

• defining menopause, perimenopause, and surgical or medical menopause
• average age ranges and premature menopause realities
• symptom patterns across the body and brain
• diagnosis via history, checklists, and targeted FSH use
• work, sleep, libido, and relationship impacts
• vaginal oestrogen access and why it matters
• long-term bone and heart health risks
• lifestyle foundations for strength, sleep, and stress
• HRT forms, risks, dosing, and reviews
• testosterone for libido and the research gap
• non-hormonal and complementary options
• Menopause Cafe purpose, ribbons, and global reach

Attend a Menopause Cafe or start one: www.menopausecafe.net
Wear a menopause awareness ribbon to show support: menopausecafe.net

#menopausecafe #HRT #Hotflushes #coldflushes #perimenopause 

This Podcast was brought to you by Johnston Media Podcast & Premier Properties Perth as part of our commitment to the community.

SPEAKER_00:

Hi, I'm Rachel Weiss from Menopause Cafe Charity, which I started back in 2017 because I knew nothing about menopause and I knew it was going to happen soon, and I wanted to have a chance to talk to other people and find out more about it. And I'm really happy to be talking to Laura today, who knows everything about the menopause.

SPEAKER_01:

Thanks, Rachel. Hello, I'm Laura Jarvis, and I'm I'm an NHS menopause specialist, and I'm also a trustee of Menopause Cafe Charity.

SPEAKER_00:

Great, and thanks for joining us because I'm quite excited. It's our first video podcast, so we'll see how we get on. But we're aiming to cover kind of general knowledge, what everyone needs to know about menopause, whatever your age, whatever your gender, how it might affect people's lives, your own life, or people you live with or love, and what we can do to make it a bit easier to get through for those who are suffering. How does that sound to you, Laura? Sounds good. I think we should kick off by defining our terms. What is menopause?

SPEAKER_01:

So menopause is essentially when the ovaries stop producing oestrogen and our periods therefore stop. So the official definition is that you have to have had no periods for a year. And but often it's a bit more complex than that to make that diagnosis because people might be using hormonal contraception. And not having periods. Yeah. Exactly. Yeah. So for example, maybe having a marina and which is stalking periods. So in that case, we would have to very much go with how people are f describing their symptoms or how they're feeling.

SPEAKER_00:

Which is why we'll list lots of symptoms in a moment. I was just thinking, I know for me, one one of my perimenopause symptoms leading up to menopause was my periods became much more irregular. So I get the point about it having to be 12 months for that, not just I haven't had a period for three months. Yeah, exactly.

SPEAKER_01:

Yeah, because your ovaries will almost get a bit tired, and they'll some months they'll have a bit of a break and they won't release an egg, the hormone levels have dropped, but then the next month they might sometimes you might go like nine months without a period and then have a period. So you st you would still classify that as perimenopausal.

SPEAKER_00:

Because they haven't stopped for a year yet. It reminds me a bit of starting periods when they were quite irregular at the beginning as the hormones were kicked. It's exactly the same. Thank you. Now I know the average age in the UK for most ethnic groups, it can't just be for white people, I don't know, is fifty-one. And I know it's lower for people like me who are of South Asian descent. But I believe there's quite widespread. Is that right? Can you say a bit more about the different ages people might experience manners?

SPEAKER_01:

We would certainly consider 45 to 55 as being the kind of the average. However, people having a menopause that at before the age of forty would be considered an early menopause, and then obviously a premature menopause would be much younger than that, so of age 35 and below. Yes, that's a smaller number of people would be experiencing that. But nevertheless, that's got huge significant effects for somebody quite catastrophic in some cases.

SPEAKER_00:

I can imagine if they were hoping to have children or all sorts, and if their period stops before they're 35 and they're getting the perimenopause symptoms, then they could be having the symptoms in their twenties. Yes. And think I'm too early for menopause, it can't be this. Yeah. And sadly, I know a few people can have menopause in their teens, late teens and early twenties as well. Yeah. So it sounds really important that we know what the symptoms are and can have some idea what's happening. Absolutely. Yeah. Just before we get on to the the symptoms, Laura, uh that's what we might call natural menopause, and it just stops. But I know some people will get catapulted into menopause with a surgical or a medical menopause.

unknown:

Yeah.

SPEAKER_00:

Can you tell us a bit about those two?

SPEAKER_01:

Yes, of course. Essentially, and any reason why you might have to have your ovaries removed. So if you've got very bad endometriosis, for example, or you've got cancer diagnosis or a kind of some kind of ovarian cyst, you might have to have your ovaries removed. And that would basically induce a very sudden and quite an extreme menopause whereby the oestrogen levels literally plummet overnight. The other category, as you described, is some where we where we actually induce what's described as a menopause, a medical menopause, whereby we give hormones to completely block the ovaries from producing hormones. And that might be a treatment, for example, for endometriosis, where we we bring on a menopause.

SPEAKER_00:

That's right. And that always sounds really tough to me if someone's facing cancer or endometriosis or some other health condition.

SPEAKER_01:

Yeah.

SPEAKER_00:

And they're all concerned about that, and then suddenly they've got menopause as well, and rather suddenly and brutally. Most of us, the menopause happens gradually over the perimenopause period. Absolutely. Rather than suddenly stopping.

SPEAKER_01:

I think it's an awful it's like the sting in the tail, really, isn't it? Because you're already dealing with the implications of the condition that you have, and then it's like a double whammy to have this on top. That can be often very people I've heard people say things like, for example, getting through the cancer treatment and then media therapy, you know, chemotherapy was okay. But actually when the menopause hit me after all of that was it's sometimes the last store, isn't it?

SPEAKER_00:

Yeah. Yeah, we get people who come to the menopause cafes talking about their surgical menopause, and they say the other hard thing is say they're in their thirties or twenties, yeah. None of their friends are going through it at the same time. So they can feel really alone.

SPEAKER_01:

Yes.

SPEAKER_00:

And sometimes they feel they should be grateful because the surgery saved them from cancer, but actually they're gutted. Absolutely. Yeah.

SPEAKER_01:

Yeah, yeah. There is and it's just made me think about a really good resource actually people can turn to the Daisy Network, where which supports younger women. Yeah, because you're absolutely right. They can feel very isolated, very alone, and none of their peers are experiencing that.

SPEAKER_00:

Yeah, so daisy network.

SPEAKER_01:

Yeah, daisy network's fair.

SPEAKER_00:

Google that, folks. Anyone who's having an early or premature menopause. Okay, why don't we talk through some of the more common impacts? I always hesitate to say symptoms because it makes it sound like it's a disease. Whereas actually we don't talk about the symptoms of puberty. We just say when you go through puberty, you might get spots and have mood swings and have erects. I sometimes wonder what would it be like if we talked about menopause just as a transition. Yes, I think you're right, different effect.

SPEAKER_01:

Careful not to over-medicalise what is essentially a natural transition in in our bodies. But so yes, let's try not to use the word symptoms if I can.

SPEAKER_00:

We'll see, don't worry. But I think I just want to point out to people listening, first of all, that my understanding from the British Menopause Society survey, I think it was 2016, is about 20 of us will sail through our menopause relatively lightly. We'll only get the three major long-term symptoms that everyone gets. And another 20% will be really debilitated. They could feel suicidal, they could find it hard to continue their jobs, they have a horrible time. But that still leaves 60% of us in the middle who may be muddled through with a bit of help, for lifestyle and medication. So when we're going through these symptoms, listeners and viewers, do you remember you might not get all of some people will get all of them. You might just get through with the three long-term ones or get a few of the ones in the middle. It's a bit like pregnancy again.

SPEAKER_01:

Absolutely. I was just thinking that's a really good uh analogy because everybody's got a different they'll ha every individual you speak to will have a different story, won't they, about that?

SPEAKER_00:

And some of them will be horror stories and they're all terrified, and others will just is it bloom or glow, whatever we're meant to do. All people, and then most of us are somewhere in the middle. That's right. Okay, so tell me some of the more common impacts that Yeah.

SPEAKER_01:

So the ones that we classically we hear about are things, aren't they, like hot flushes, night sweats, difficulty sleeping, anxiety, mood swings, achy joints, dry skin. The list goes on. Itchy skin, itchy skin. Yes. I almost hear of a new menopause symptom every week, really, because ishogen is in our whole body, so every system. And then also we mustn't forget about the genital symptoms as well, vaginal dryness, bladder symptoms. They're often a bit neglected. So, yes, and uh dry eyes, electric shock sometimes. Yes. Yes, uh-huh. Skin.

SPEAKER_00:

There are about 34 symptoms. We we might include a link to it.

SPEAKER_01:

I know. So they are there's numerous. Yeah.

SPEAKER_00:

And thank you for explaining and reminding me. It's because estrogen is in every part of our body. It is not just our ovaries. There's a great booklet, Understanding Menopause Produced by Menopause Support, which gives a checklist. There are lots of checklists of symptoms, and that can be quite a good one to go through and people to tick which symptoms they've got. And that's, as you said earlier, one of the best ways of diagnosing it. Is that right? If you've got a cluster of symptoms. I know some people ask for a blood test. Do you want to say a bit about when that's appropriate and when it's useful and when it's not?

SPEAKER_01:

Yes, certainly, yes. There's a hormone called follicle stimulating hormone. Uh-huh. We call it FSA short. Yeah. I always forget what it stands for. So just say it again. Follicle stimulus. It's basically the hormone that comes from the brain and it's telling your follicles and your ovaries to get going, stimulate them to produce an egg. So as the ovaries start to get a bit tired, the follicle stimulating hormone is the levels go up and it's putting pressure on the ovaries, if you like, to produce some eggs. So it if you find that the levels of the FSH go high. Now that's very useful if somebody's under the age of 45 and you're actually not sure they're coming to you with a list of symptoms, and for example, they might have a marina in place, so they've not having any periods. So they might that would be very useful just to solve because it could be any other reasons that you might be getting insomnia, headaches, you might be getting I'm feeling anxious for any number of reasons. So it can be useful in those situations to do a FSH. But to be honest, any person over the age of 45, if they're coming with those symptoms, you don't need the blood test really, because it the obvious thing is it's likely to be menopause. Perimenopause or menopause, yeah.

SPEAKER_00:

And I believe the FSH levels vary. So even if you did do a blood test on one particular day, it might be a day when it's low. So can't tell you for sure you'd need to repeat it. You do need to repeat it 46 weeks. Not 46, but for two. Yeah. So most of us if we're over 45, the blood test isn't useful and helpful, yeah. We can diagnose menopause or the symptoms. Yeah. And how it's affect and I'll just say a bit about how it can affect us at work. Like I started forgetting things, so that affected me at work as well as at home, and I had to start writing things down. Yes, yes. Asking people to email me rather than tell me things. And if people aren't sleeping well, which is one of the symptoms people talk about a lot at the cafes, then that has a knock-on effect at work, a bit like if you're sleep deprived with a puppy or a baby, but it goes on and on. And if they're embarrassed to tell their boss or to ask for flexible hours, it's inconvenient to say the least. And I know people consider leaving their jobs or not going for promotion. Yeah. And vaginal dryness, which you mentioned, can make penetrative sex uncomfortable or painful. And then that can have an impact on relationships. Absolutely.

SPEAKER_01:

And that's often something that people uh understandably maybe feel a bit embarrassed to go and see their doctor about. So that's why we really want that to be included in as many information and consultations as possible with the clinician inquiring about that. Because even if the patient doesn't mention it, try to ask because it's something.

SPEAKER_00:

Yeah.

SPEAKER_01:

A lot of women now are much more comfortable, but some women, depending on their culture and maybe just felt feel uncomfortable talking about sex, such things.

SPEAKER_00:

And I think that's why we started the charity is to help people who come to the cafe be comfortable saying the word vagina, saying the word menopause, because often they don't feel able to tell their sexual partners why they don't want sex anymore. And it's because it's painful. And then he or she will think, well, it's because of me and relationships can break up. Yeah, yeah. So the more comfortable we can get talking about our bodies really. Yeah, absolutely. And there is help available for vaginal dryness. Absolutely. So we maybe move on to things we can do there.

SPEAKER_01:

Yes, exactly. There is we ha can use some little bit of estation that we put straight into vagina, and that can come in different products. But And the great thing about that is even women who maybe don't want to use hormone replacement therapy or can't use hormone replacement therapy for some reason, most people can use vaginal estation. The estrogen and the pesteries.

SPEAKER_00:

I think that's so important for us to know that even if we can't take systemic HRT on our whole body. And am I right, at least in the UK we can go to a pharmacy and buy that over the counter. The vaginal estrogen.

SPEAKER_01:

That's a relatively new thing, actually. Whereby you can get the little pesteries, yeah, o over the counter. You obviously you need to pay for those. They're be available on prescription from your GP. If you just want to go in and buy them for the or you can ask about it on prescription.

SPEAKER_00:

And that reminds me to come back to what the three long-term symptoms are. Because a lot of the ones we talked about, like hot flushes and itchy skin, yeah, are what you might call medium-term. Is that right? They might last for seven to ten years, although for some people it goes on longer. But I believe that all of us, even people like me who've sailed through, I will still have a drier vagina, even if I can't feel it, and that could lead to bladder infections and EGIs. Yeah. And reduced bone health and reduced heart health. That's right.

SPEAKER_01:

Echogen is responsible for protecting the bones against osteoporosis or osteopenia, any of the bones. So it explains why women have uh a higher incidence of osteorosis, which leads to things like fractured hips as well. And then obviously cardiovascular disease. So it's interesting, ishogen protects our cardiovascular system, and but after the menopause, we are we that are there then our rates of cardiovascular disease increase, unfortunately. Yeah, obviously there's that's multifactorial and also in lifestyle factors are extremely important as well. But eachogen is one part of that really as well.

SPEAKER_00:

So while we're fertile, estrogen protects us. Yes, it does. And we have a lower rate of heart attack and heart diseases than men do. But once the estrogen protection goes, our risk increases, but just increases to roughly the same as the men, is that right? Rather than I know sometimes people worry that it increases through the roots. Yeah, we catch up.

SPEAKER_01:

Yeah. Yeah.

SPEAKER_00:

I think important. Yeah, lifestyle changes and medication. Those are the two main things we could call them four if we spell them into healthy eating, exercising, or being more active, and sleep and relaxation, and then medication, which could be HRT or pessaries. That's right. Yeah.

SPEAKER_01:

Okay. Yeah.

SPEAKER_00:

Where should we start with the lifestyle and the medication? Yeah.

SPEAKER_01:

Yeah. So I think when I see a patient who comes in for to talk about menopause, I will we really try and do a very holistic look at that person and a very individualized approach, looking at everything from her past medical history, existing heart disease, for example, or things that increase her risk of osteoporosis already that she may have. And then we would go into any medication that they may be taking, which, you know, could impact, for example, long-term steroid use would impact on osteoporosis use, for example. And then family history is very important. So if you have a family history of early menopause, say, or family history of breast cancer, very young, all of these things are important. And then social history, so thinking about what kind of a lifestyle the person has, are they active, taking weight-bearing exercise? Yeah. Do they smoke? That's important to advise about that. Alcohol, of course. So we're not saying don't drink alcohol, but just try and drink within recommended government uh amounts. And and like you said, about so I think stress is really important in the menopause. So if you have what you're doing for a living, if your job's very stressful, how that might impact on your whole well-being system. Yeah, yeah, absolutely. So we're very we look at all of that really and advise on on depending on the areas, more exercise. And also diet, of course, is very important. And we're beh I think we're feeling like we're learning more and more about how important diet can be as well and the general well-being. So really try and look at all of that before we then talk about hormone replacement therapy.

SPEAKER_00:

So we'll just think through the lifestyle stuff first and then move on to that. Because I know some of my friends have been advised that they need to lose weight before they can take HRT. I'm not quite sure if that's true, but yes, it I think we all just want a silver bullet. Give me a pill to swallow that will cure my menopause. And it's quite hard to accept that actually I need to take some responsibility for what I'm eating and how active I am, and learning relaxation and de-stressing, and maybe saying no to people. And that's all hard work when you're already generally often squeezed between kids, aging parents, the peak of our career, and feeling crap the whole time anyway. So I just want to say to people listening and watching it's like the news we don't want to hear. So we need to we need to look after our bodies. But for me, it was a bit like Mother Nature's kick up the backside going, Rachel, you've got to start looking after yourself. I've never exercised before, and I can't say I enjoy it. I keep waiting for the Zendorphins to kick in. But I think of it like brushing my teeth. This is something I need to do, this eating healthy stuff, and this exercising if I want to live longer and healthier. And also trying to relax and de-stress, which again sounds impossible. But now I like to think if we learn all these things now, it will actually help for the decades ahead. Yeah, definitely.

SPEAKER_01:

I think it is a good time to to stop and take stock of your life and say, we're living a lot of our lives now in the post-menopausal years, aren't we? And we really want to be living not just living a long life, but also living a healthy life, happy and a good life. Yeah.

SPEAKER_00:

So it is a pause. Maybe that's why it's menopause to just stop and think.

SPEAKER_01:

Yeah. And uh it can be really helpful just to look at maybe some bad habits you've crept into over the years because you've been so busy raising a family, busy with jobs. Now's a time to really invest in yourself. Yeah.

SPEAKER_00:

It is time to put ourselves first. And many women have been socialized in the way that we're brought up, not to put ourselves first, but we're here to serve, to put our families or our job first. Yeah. Or anybody else first often. Absolutely. Yeah. So it can be quite I know some people find counselling useful or talking to other people and getting a bit of solidarity from their friends on putting themselves first and saying no to a few of the requests that other people make on us. Let's talk about the ways medication can help. And the the first one that's recommended is hormone replacement therapy. Yes, or we'll talk about that. Should we talk about hormone replacement therapy?

SPEAKER_01:

Firstly, there are other things like complementary therapies that we can talk about as well. So hormone replacement therapy is probably the most effective treatment for menopause symptoms. It's been around since the 1940s, actually, but it's gone through a kind of rocky road, really, hasn't it, over the last eighty years with so we are where we are at with it now. We have a much better understanding of hormone replacement therapy, how it can help, and all the pros and cons to it, which we're in a good position, really. Essentially, what hormone replacement therapy is essentially the echin hormone, which is what our bodies really want. But for most women who still have their uterus, we have to give some form of progestion as well. So that can be in the form of the patch or a tablet, or sometimes the marina, like we've spoken about before. So it's usually two hormones. Combined, and that would be what we've described as combined HRT, these two hormones. It's a little simpler if you've had a hysterectomy or if you've got marina in, because then we can just use the issue and only HRT. And that's got a lower risk, hasn't it?

SPEAKER_00:

Yes. People are worried about which is breast cancer. Correct.

SPEAKER_01:

So we think that issues and only HRT is may just confer a very small risk of breast cancer or perhaps none at all, which is wonderful, really, because that's the thing that people worry about with HRT, isn't it? And it can be delivered in we in different ways. So usually through the skin is our preferred way these days. So in a patch or a gel or a spray. There's also an implant, but that's going a little bit out of fashion now, and we very rarely use that actually. And there is oral, we do still use oral HRT, but that does carry a slightly high risk of blood clot. So we certainly would be careful with the people we choose to use that with.

SPEAKER_00:

Yeah. And that reminds me, there are small health risks with HRT, whether it's cancer or blood clots.

unknown:

Yeah.

SPEAKER_00:

And am I right? It's a question of balancing that against the benefits, which are usually huge for people, but that's why it is in on an individual basis, right? Absolutely.

SPEAKER_01:

I think that's why it's so important to have a one-to-one show with a clinician. Because everybody's risk is so different. If somebody's sitting there with a mum who had terrible osteoporosis and ended up with fractured hips at age 70, you'd be saying you're swaying it towards HRT. Whereas if somebody's sitting there with a mum who had or themselves have had breast cancer, then obviously that's quite a big uh negative complication. Yeah, yeah.

SPEAKER_00:

So But if someone's suicidal and can't work and has no history of bone problems or cancer, then that's HRT could be a real help.

SPEAKER_01:

Absolutely, because in that case, it's hugely impacting on that person's ability to live and work and yeah, yeah. So don't rule it out. Keep an open mind, is I think what I would say. It's interesting because people be quite fixated and I'm not taking HRT. Or everyone should take HRT. Well, black or white, yeah. It depends. Yeah.

SPEAKER_00:

I think when we're when we're so confused often and desperate, we just want a simple answer. Is HRT good or bad? But the more people I speak to, it's like it depends. See somebody who'll listen to all your case history and figure out. And then, am I right? You still then have to do a bit of trial and error with the dose and the type. Absolutely.

SPEAKER_01:

And this is really I find this so fascinating. You can give somebody a small 25 microgram patch and they feel great on that. Or somebody for somebody else might not even touch them, and then you need to be on much, much higher dose, like 100.

SPEAKER_00:

Yeah, somebody can we absorb them at different rates.

SPEAKER_01:

Some people don't absorb well through the skin transpires. Yeah, very interesting. That it's fascinating actually. So we have to one size definitely doesn't fit all. It's a very individual approach.

SPEAKER_00:

And I've read that we ought to see our doctor or GP if we're getting HRT, we should be going back for regular reviews to see how it's yeah, that's right.

SPEAKER_01:

An annual review is recommended. Just to just update just history, make sure nothing's changed, blood pressure and weights, usually a good idea. And just to tweak anything, yeah, that needs tweaking.

SPEAKER_00:

Yeah. And I know at the moment some people are very keen to be given testosterone.

SPEAKER_01:

Yeah. Yeah.

SPEAKER_00:

Or they want HRT because they think it will prevent dementia. Sorry, that's two questions at once.

SPEAKER_01:

Tell us about testosterone then. Yeah. So testosterone, we have testosterone in our bodies anyway, because people often think of it being like the male hormone that gives you muscles and things. But women, uh, we do have small amounts of testosterone in our bodies. And it's not like the menopause where it just suddenly drops dramatically. It's more of a gradual decline. But some women, particularly if you've had their ovaries removed, because the ovaries are responsible for producing a little bit of testosterone, the levels will be significantly lower. Some women may benefit, it's particularly may be beneficial for libido, and that's in fact the only thing that we can use it for with some indication. But other people do report when they try testosterone that it really helps with energy levels and tiredness. But that's very anecdotal. We don't really have We haven't got the evidence.

SPEAKER_00:

And this is the problem, isn't it? It might be true. Yes. It doesn't mean it's not true, but we need it's been chronically under-researched. It's absolutely true. As most women's health conditions have.

SPEAKER_01:

Absolutely. We don't have good data, which is why unfortunately we don't have a licensed product that we can use for women. We only have the male product. The testosterone. Yeah. And we use it in a much, much reduced dosage for women. But it's very it's not very accurate.

SPEAKER_00:

Because it's been developed for men and tested on them. Yeah, yeah. So we definitely need research to do testosterone for women and the long-term effects.

SPEAKER_01:

Yeah, that's I agree. That's a huge error, again, a big gap there in the in the knowledge. Yeah.

SPEAKER_00:

Yeah.

SPEAKER_01:

Thank you.

SPEAKER_00:

Anything more you want to add on medication or lifestyle?

SPEAKER_01:

I was going to maybe just say about alternatives to HRT, of course. Because a lot of people for various reasons don't either don't want to use HRT or choose not to or can't. And so really is worth thinking about other things. For example, some antidepressants can really help with hot flushes and sweats. Yeah. And there are some other medication that could that can help too. It's worth asking your GP. And there are other complementary therapies like homeopathy or reflexology, hypnotherapy. Really, I'm really open to all of these. I think it would be prudent to mention that the alternative.

SPEAKER_00:

And again, there's not enough evidence yet. Absolutely. But yeah. Anecdotally at cafes, people say acupuncture helps all sorts. We're nearly the end, and we haven't said much about our charity yet, have we? Shall we put something in on that? So we hope that was useful as a sort of introduction to menopause. But what happens at a menopause cafe is people gather of all ages and genders, either online or in person, just to talk about menopause. Like Laura and me talking a bit. We can learn a lot just by talking to other people. What works for one person might not work for another, as you have said. But if we can hear lots of stories about how other people have coped, we really do believe everyone needs to know about menopause. Yes. Maybe you're a male boss in your 30s and if you've got a team, the women in their 50s. And of course it happens to trans men and intersex people and non-binary. If you'd like to attend a Manipaules Cafe, have a look at our website, which is wwwmenopausecafe.net, somewhere online, and they're worldwide. I'm quite pleased, Laura. We started it in Perth and Scotland, didn't we? Yeah. Now it's everywhere. Yeah, yeah. And now they're in Australia or America, Kenya, wherever. And the other thing you can do if you want to show your solidarity for people going through menopause is to wear a menopause awareness ribbon. They're pink and purple, I think they're quite pretty. Forgot to bring mine today. Menopause or brain fog. That's right, that's one of the symptoms. But if you wear a menopause awareness ribbon, which you can get on our website, menopausecafe.net, that shows the world that you are in solidarity and support with everyone who's going through their menopause and that you're open to conversations about it. So get in the workplace, I think it can be quite powerful, or down the pub or on the bus, I've had people stop and start talking to me. So attending a cafe, wearing a ribbon, donate to our charity. Is there anything else that we want to ask people to do?

SPEAKER_01:

No, I think that's we've covered the main things. Yeah, and I just want to say big thank you to you, because you've you really have started the this huge conversation and it was really needed to be done by some.

SPEAKER_00:

Yes. I think the more we talk about menopause, so even if after listening to this podcast or watching it, if you if someone says, What have you done today or has you if you can say I listened to a podcast about menopause, you're saying the word, and that will show that it's okay and help make this easier because people feel ashamed. And oh, last sentence, menopause isn't all bad. There's no contraception, I don't have to carry period products around anymore. I don't care so much what other people think about me. I can say what I think. So it's not all bad, but getting there can be tricky.

SPEAKER_01:

I agree. I think we I think that's really positive put a positive spin on the second half of our lives. It's a new chapter. It is. And it's got lots of really good things in it. Yeah.

SPEAKER_00:

Uh thanks very much, Laura. That was nice talking with you.