Building Confidence: A Woman Leading Construction

What if complex builds felt calm, honest and human from day one? We sit with Pam Wilson—co-founder of Kevin Wilson Master Builders and Scotland’s female president of the Federation of Master Builders—to unpack two decades of lessons that turn disruption into trust and craft into confidence.

Pam’s path wasn’t straight. She moved from communications and hospitality into construction, splitting roles with her joiner husband: he owns the tools, she owns the client journey. Together they built a business that survived 2008’s shock, graduated to limited status, and learned to scale without losing touch. The secret is simple and rare: remove client anxiety so trades can excel. Pam maps the messy phases, sets expectations early, and reframes choices—tiles, floors, finishes—so every decision feels like progress, not pressure.

We dig into the projects that test real skill: conservation-area renovations, quirky extensions, and turnkey design-and-build, including work for international clients who need a safe pair of hands. Pam shares the “three-card” approach to service levels, proving that tailored communication can be a tool as effective as any saw. She opens up about boundaries and burnout, the lure of late-night emails, and the practical steps that gave her evenings back.

Beyond the site, Pam leads. At the Federation of Master Builders she champions CPD, contract support, and helplines, and helps shape policy at Holyrood—pushing for a dedicated construction minister and running member meetups that keep SMEs connected. Partnerships with architects, interior designers and suppliers turn bold ideas into clean finishes, while her next chapter points toward owning premises and small developments to build long-term resilience.

Mentoring ties it all together. Through Career Ready, Pam mentors teenagers across 18 months with paid internships, and she’s qualifying to mentor adults too. Her message is clear: failure is data, not destiny; confidence is a practice; and progress rarely runs in a straight line. If you care about better builds, stronger teams, and pathways for women in construction, this conversation is your blueprint.

Enjoyed the show? Follow, rate and review, then share it with someone planning a renovation or starting a trade business. Your feedback helps more listeners find these stories.

Transcript

SPEAKER_02 0:15

Welcome back to the Sterling Business Podcast brought to you from Studio King Street in the heart of Sterling. Today I've got a guest with me, Pam Wilson from the Federation of Master Builders and also Kevin Wilson Master Builders. Lots of uh Wilsons and Master Builders in there. But um we'll come back to that. So welcome to the Sterling Business Podcast, Pam. How are you?

SPEAKER_00 0:39

Yeah, I'm great, thank you.

SPEAKER_02 0:40

You're looking very colourful today.

SPEAKER_00 0:42

It's like my personality.

SPEAKER_02 0:44

Fantastic. So we've known each other probably what, 18 months or so now?

SPEAKER_00 0:49

Yeah, I think so.

SPEAKER_02 0:50

Um, you know, work you know, com working in the same kind of circles, I guess, in terms of the network, and I think we came across each other through some introductions. Um might have been Maggie Gorman or somebody, I can't remember.

SPEAKER_00 1:03

A couple of kind of local people, I think, kind of mutual.

Pam’s Path Before Construction

SPEAKER_02 1:06

Yeah. Um now the thing that really intrigued me about you uh when we when we met was that um you're in the construction industry in the construction sector. Yeah. Which is uh quite unusual, um, I would say for uh you know for you know for for women and for females. So but we'll get more into that because um you've got a very interesting story in terms of kind of what you do. Um but before that, why don't you tell us a little bit about Pam Wilson and you know where you where you're from?

SPEAKER_00 1:35

Yes, I'm Pam Wilson, as you said. I'm the current female president of Federation of Master Builders in Scotland. I'm the co-founder of KWMB. Um we have been going for 20 years. I also have my own business. It just turned six last last month. Um I also have another business with three two colleagues, and we're starting the property games. So, yeah, based on construction. As for me, I am fairly local. I've been a resident in Bridgiv Island for 24 years, but I I was actually went to school in Stirling until primary five, then moved to Falkirk, then back to Stirling. So yeah, I'm a kind of local lass round about. Um I love the area, and so I met you specifically as well, knowing that new blood was coming here as well. It's been quite important for me to kind of um I like to get involved, you know, meet like-minded people and doing good things for the local area. Um so for me, construction, uh yeah, it wasn't in my um schooling ambitions, you know. I didn't think, oh, I'm going to be uh something in construction because I don't think that was ever, ever something that we were told when I was at school many, many, many years ago. Um certainly there was uh construction woodwork and technical drawing, but for me at my particular school, they were weird. The guys were weird, the teachers, the lecturers. Um so yeah, it was to be avoided. So coming out of school, I went to college and done communication and media. I wanted to be in the radio, but I had a face for it. Um so I didn't know.

SPEAKER_02 3:03

Well, does that surprise me? You wanted to be in media.

Starting A Husband–and–Wife Firm

SPEAKER_00 3:05

But it wasn't media, I didn't really I didn't probably equate media to like celebrity or anything like that. Just talking. You know, you could probably get that from me. But um yes, I did that, but I moved um and uh I started working in hospitality basically. I got jobs and pubs, which was great. I worked in Tesco's, I just like working. My mum would always say to me as a kid, you know, as long as you work, you know, you can do whatever you like, you'll buy whatever you like. So I remember I bought you particular shoes to go to school, she's like, Well, no, you're getting these shoes because they're functional and this is what you're getting. But the minute you can make your own money, you can buy what you like. So I did. I got a job at 13 and started buying what I liked, the most ridiculous earrings, the highest shoes. Um, so yeah, I've always liked working. Um, and then my husband and I got together, he's a joiner, and um he was working away, and he was often working weekends, so we just moved house, and there's a little bit of pot of cash, and we thought, you know, we could do this. Um we knew what we had to make a week to cover ourselves as you do. Kevin's was it's not as shy, but he's quite a quiet guy. Probably gonna get a word done. But um we really are quite opposite, but with one mutual kind of value of doing a good job and being the best. And so we thought, right, let's do it. Buy a van, buy the tools. I was very much I went and did a startup course at STEP in Stirling, we're brilliant.

SPEAKER_02 4:26

I did that before we started out to support the the business function side of it. Still an enterprise, yeah, yeah.

SPEAKER_00 4:31

Because I always we knew we couldn't function as a business if Kevin was doing it all. He has no interest in doing not the not the client relations as such, but that's not his bag. He's really good at what he did on the tools. So we thought, well, 50-50 split. I've always been good with people. I love people, you're talking, interacting. Um so we just went for it and it really, really worked.

SPEAKER_02 4:53

And from that from when was that roughly Kevin Will? That was 2000.

Surviving 2008 And Growing Up

SPEAKER_00 5:00

Yeah, about side off is Kevin uh side office a sole trading business because we didn't really know because I was thinking 24, 25. So you didn't really know, but we were just trying to do it all properly, but not knowing what we didn't know, and just you know, working hard. So we did sole trading, so it was Kevin Wilson Glaziers actually joining Glazier. Then we moved up to partnership once we kind of knew a bit more about things. But 2008 came and obviously that was that was fabulous for businesses. But what worked in our favour was we were so naive, you know, because you don't know any what you don't know. Um so we got through that by the skin of our teeth, and through that process, learned a lot more. Um, because I always say as well, it takes about three years to make a decent turnover, but we weren't bad to be fair, but it was a struggle. But again, naivety got us through. I mean, there was some sketchy moments when you're using your card at Tesco's and hoping it's gonna work, you know, because we're two young kids at the time as well. So I think we moved into being um a limited company maybe 2015. But that's when we got bigger VAT and things like that. You know, when you do get bigger, you learn a lot more liability as well.

SPEAKER_02 6:02

By then I'm assuming you went beyond joinery and glazing and 9%, yeah, yeah.

SPEAKER_00 6:07

So we were always good at that. Kevin by this point was maybe 15 years in industry, and he learnt from the best. He was an apprentice out of school, and you know, it is incredible. I mean, as my husband, and obviously I would say that, but Ashley wouldn't if he was rotten, you know. I'm quite honest. But he's incredible, the things that he does. Um so yeah, but we just we could we could get bigger, but as you know, it's difficult with with staffs as well and bringing people in and trusting people because again, our value is just doing a good job for the client. That's really where where we stand. Our USP is that customer facing. I kind of take all the kind of worries from the client away from our tradespeople so they can do what they do best. Because what you find in construction is you don't go into it to be a business person per se. You're in it because you're a plumber, a joiner, you're and they're superb at that.

SPEAKER_02 6:54

But actually, all the other stuff most businesses start like that, particularly in the uh on the construction side, maybe less on the developer side, but certainly.

Craft, USP, And Client Care

SPEAKER_00 7:04

Yeah, I would say if you if you are somebody that's worked through the trade from like apprenticeship stage and stuff, because I work with a fantastic team, and it's mainly guys, plumbers and electrons, and that's the bit that the fall down on, and it's not their fault, it's that they are so committed to the job they're doing, rightly so, that the estimates you can't get out in a timely manner, you know, that even the invoices don't go out in a timely manner because they're just doing it all. Because if they're doing that, they've maybe missed having time with our kids, you know, they've missed that football match. So I we really identified that, you know. We still have regrets with our own children that they've never been affected by it, but we have that guilt to think, did we work too much? But actually, we were providing a really good life for them and a really good example, and our kids are pretty good and they've both worked in the business at various times. Um, so for us it's it's been a real journey of growth, even for us as a husband and wife team together, because I am a strong character, I think we can establish, but there's been low points of your depression as well, a family life. We don't argue per se, but we are completely different. So you need to learn ways to kind of cut that off as well. Um, especially if I one of the biggest bugbears I would say would be me on my phone reading emails at night, which he could shut off, but it'd infuriate him. And I understood, but that's really hard when you're in business as well, that control bit, because I want to be on top of it. That's my job to do that.

SPEAKER_02 8:24

Whereas he's knackered. And I think that's a natural thing for a lot of people in that mobile devices don't make life easier because you can't you just can't put it down. So you take social media out of the equation if you're purely kind of focusing on kind of business related activity, you just don't you can't in some cases get to it during the day.

SPEAKER_00 8:41

Yeah, it's an anxiety. Exactly.

SPEAKER_02 8:44

And if you're anything like me, you'll forget unless you do it there and then.

SPEAKER_00 8:47

But it is uh and it's prioritizing. But I used to it used to just uh cause me anxiety because it was like a lack of control kind of thing, and then that kind of bit in my head goes, Oh, they're gonna think this or whatever, you know. And I've learned to do it. It's been a long process. I mean, I'm nearly 20 years in now, you know, um of learning. And it is learning, you'd have to unlearn as well. You can't be too on top of it because you're not helping nobody. That client's actually doing it because that's their time to do it, they're sitting on the couch with a glass of wine, but actually that can wait to nine o'clock or ten o'clock when you've turned your computer and you've got your coffee. And that really is uh something that I struggle with and it used to come into the relationship a lot. Um, but and even my k my daughter, bless her, she's 25 now. We'd went out for a meal, I think it was maybe post-COVID, before that, and I never took my work for it. I have two phones, I could eventually separated them both, so da da da da da. I never had it. She said, Oh, where's your other phone? I went, I've left it. She went, Well done. And she meant that sincerely. I went, Oh my goodness. And that was quite an eye-opener, you know, to be that kind of controlled by the device, as you say. So I'm late, I've learned really good techniques now to kind of stop that, but it was a hard shift. It was like given some like an addiction.

unknown 9:54

Yeah?

SPEAKER_00 9:55

Yeah. That's what it becomes.

Boundaries, Burnout, And Phones

SPEAKER_02 9:56

So Kevin Wilson, Master Builders. Um, you're now a kind of full service uh business. So what exactly do you offer to clients?

SPEAKER_00 10:04

So yeah, we do um extensions, renovations, we could do new builds, um, we can do a full turnkey design and build service for you. We work um but being mainly in the kind of FK area, but we have worked all over. We work for international clients, and what we offer for them is uh kind of safety net, really, that they've got somebody that's here. We can sort everything from schools as well, you know, jobs, in fact. I've done that for my clients, as I say. Just anything in domestic construction really is our bag. And if we can't do it, I'll know somebody that can, and I can facilitate that for the consumer as well.

SPEAKER_02 10:46

And are they typically some of the projects you get involved in, are they typically kind of you know, run-of-the-mill kind of standard kind of homes, or do you do the more of the grand designer stuff? Yeah, we get quite spicy ones.

SPEAKER_00 10:56

I don't generally it would be nice sometimes. We've often thought to just do the little boxes and things, and we've done that, but we work in conservation areas a lot, um properties that are 100 odd years old, so it's never so straightforward. But we love them because you'd just be bored, you know, and it really just it's a craft. I mean, there is a lot of comfort in you know, just doing same-sy things, you know, the kitchens and stuff, but actually it's not just a kitchen, you're changing the way somebody's living in their house, you know, or they've saved a lemon. So I yeah, we do a lot, and um I think they're all as much as they can be similar, but are completely different in in a way that it's maybe been carried out for the consumer, for the client, because that journey for us is super important because the rhetoric around construction is you know quite negative. Um so we really, really champion going, no, no, this would be a great journey. Talk to the client, go, right, at this point here it's gonna be a nightmare. So let's get you a voucher for just eight, or you take you a seat, the husbands or the wives, so right, you're taking yourself out all week, you know, and so you're limiting it's you're being honest with them, but going, but look, this is a bad bit, a good bit, let's pick the curtains, let's pick the flooring, let's pick the tiles, and turn it round and make it a positive journey instead of like, oh, can I get in touch with anybody? Oh, this is just hard work. Where it where's the trade is today? You know, if you take all that anxiety and all that um kind of upset out of it, it can be a really nice process. So that's what we really like doing.

SPEAKER_02 12:21

And is that the bit that you predominantly focus on with the clients?

Services And Spicier Projects

SPEAKER_00 12:25

Basically, yeah, anything, anything they need. Um, and some clients don't need that. You know, I I'm not very like, I'll be my friend. It's not about that. It's just like, look, what do you need, we can be as involved as you like or not. And what I love, this is a wee example. I was in on holiday in in January, we're at a fancy restaurant, and this the guy came out and gave us three cards, and I was like, Oh, but this is about tarot cards. I went no, he says, This one's for if you want us to talk to you about what you're getting. This one's just like a wee kind of uh synopsis, and this one's like leave me alone. And I love that. So I thought that's kind of our approach to construction. And to our clients to go, right, what do you need for us? And we can pick build it out of the package. So I thought that was a really good. I thought that's what I do. I thought that card system, who gives that? So you go, and it's that's it. I use it, that's it. You tell me everything, I want to know what I'm eating here, kind of thing. But I just love that, that that that's true, it's it's not a one-size-fits-all, and I just thought that was bright, and that's exactly what I do in construction.

SPEAKER_02 13:19

Brilliant. Okay. So d I I guess you'll have different demographic graphics of clients as well, right? So do you have kind of high net worth down to people kind of putting everything in that they own into a into a property?

SPEAKER_00 13:34

I think, yeah, again, it could be it could be a 70 grand kitchen or it could be a 10 grand kitchen. You know, but the experience will be the same that you do you get the best of service. Because to me, it's not about the money at all. Money's lovely, it gets you things, but that doesn't even motivate me as such, you know. Because I know that client has saved that up. They've worked hard for that. I think that's something that I never forget. We've done our own extension and stuff when we were not that we're loaded now, but significantly less off and it was a struggle. So I see that, you know, I see a family that they're improving their property and I see why they're doing it. You know, so I that's precious. You know, they've worked hard. They've obviously worked in their heads well how that's gonna turn out for them as well. So I've never never forgotten that, and that really is my motivation. Kev, not so much that not not that he doesn't care, but he's focused on making sure everything else is tipped up.

SPEAKER_02 14:24

Yeah, you know. The finish is perfect.

SPEAKER_00 14:26

Aye, 100% in the process of that new delivery, or what could go wrong. So we're also wrong to the client, until you open something up, you don't know what you're gonna get. But to our best assumption, we'll also be caveating saying, like, but we can fix anything we find, so don't worry, this is completely normal. So we've got you, but this is a reality.

SPEAKER_02 14:43

Yeah, okay. So women in construction, back to that theme, back to that topic. Isn't it women in construction week this week?

SPEAKER_00 14:49

Yeah, it is. It started on Sunday, which is great.

SPEAKER_02 14:51

Oh, wow, so great timing for this podcast.

Budget, Value, And Honest Caveats

SPEAKER_00 14:53

It's perfect. When I got the email last week, I was like, Yes, this is it, this is hit really well. Yeah, so I would say it has changed significantly in my 20 years um in industry. I think the way I've reacted to it's changed as well. I've spoken a lot about it to uh to peers and fellow men in construction and guys, I I have such a bunch of great people uh surrounding me uh in construction. I've fought hard for that as well because sometimes you wouldn't have a voice. Um and one thing about me as well, over the last kind of six years I've lost a lot of weight. Um to put it in perspective, I was uh I was nine stone heavier about six years ago, and that did affect my confidence and the way that I But it's not carrying bricks on Do you know? It was easy to do because I could actually hold them on my hips and stuff, but it was a lot less of an eye. But that really did affect me mentally that what people were seeing in me, I'd already made up a thing, oh they assuming this of me, or you know, because I felt so bad about myself. But actually, in 2019, um, for whatever reason, we were at an event for the Federation because we've been members of the Federation of Master Builders for I think nearly 17 years now. Because when we started the business, um we wanted to be better, so that's that was our sign to join a membership like that. So in 2019 we were up for an award and it was in Edinburgh, and before it was an AGM, and I'd never ever been to anything like that because I never really had the confidence, I didn't feel right. I was I was very big at the time, and totally my thing, not there's any thing wrong with being big, I just didn't like it per se. And I said to Kevin, like, when we'll go to the AGM, we're there in Edinburgh anyway for the awards, let's go. He went, right, okay. So he sat there begrudgingly and in this room, and I'd never done anything like that before. And I'm looking around, seeing as people, and there's another female in the room, Lee. And I was like, Oh my, that's great. So at the end of this meeting, I was like, So is anybody in the room? There's there's a member, there's a there's um board seats up for um for the taking care of things. Does anybody want to put their self forward? And for whatever reason I stuck my hand up and then Kev looked at me and he went, Is there a fly? Are you squatting something away? So I don't know what what made me, but I don't know if it was Scene Lee. And so I put my hand up, um, and then actually somebody I just met, um Andrew Haldane, um had seconded me. So all of a sudden, within like three and a half minutes, I was on the board of the Federation. I thought, oh, have I done? I rather sick sweating. It was a hot day in June, in fact. And so that was a start for me, and from that the confidence kind of raised, and as I said, it was very male-dominated. But Lee was there, and it was it was I thought, well, she's doing it. She's obviously pretty good, you know. And I thought, right, okay. So that kind of got me in. And don't get me wrong, there's still there was still some uh I would say particularly particular instance, I would get a pat in the back as opposed to a handshake. But the way I thought about it is like, well, no, you extend your hand first, so then you've initiated that. Um so it's probably one of the best things I did um is join the board.

SPEAKER_02 17:53

Um, it sounds like it gives you a lot of confidence. Nine percent. Um it gives you it could have been any industry, I guess, but you were in construction and yeah, you know, you put yourself out there and kind of uh the rest is history, so to speak. So what does the federation do then? What kind of services does it offer to its members?

Women In Construction And Confidence

SPEAKER_00 18:12

Yeah, so lots of services. For me, uh I I take it as extra members of my team as well, because I know I can phone anybody, they've maybe had the same problem as you, but for the Federation, they offer CPD, your continued education, we've got contracts, we've got a whole portal we've got access to. There's Finder Builder. Um in Scotland specific, we champion and um lobby at Parliament level as well. We we we actually involved in how things are done in Scotland.

SPEAKER_02 18:38

Um was that like planning reform and things like that? Everything. Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 18:42

I was actually um we launched a manifesto for the Federation at Parliament just in November. That was that was something I never ever thought I would do to stand and speak in front of esteemed you know politicians and other members. But yeah, we've the chance to do that and change things, and we're really fighting to get our own construction minister because there's not one. So we've got skin in the game there, which is fantastic for the Federation. So yeah, we've got all that. I mean, to get put it in context as well with the Federation, it's the oldest and biggest trade federation of construction. It started in 1941 in London. So it's national, so the devolved nations, Wales, and Northern Ireland as well. And yeah, it's just it we've got legal with it as well, we've got helplines, we've got associate members that we can tap into, we've got benefits, you know, from juicings to MKM. It's just for me, it's just having that backup.

SPEAKER_02 19:33

And are you the president for the national body or for Scotland? No, for Scotland. For Scotland.

SPEAKER_00 19:36

Maybe one day, maybe I'm coming for you boys. But um I'm I'm the first one of Scotland for feet for a female in Scotland. Um but we did have a national um female, uh Jane Etchell's um back a couple of years ago. Um so there's that. I I do have access to all that as well. I go down to Parliament as well with them. But yeah, federation is like having extra team members that you can tap into. Um yeah, for me it's been really invaluable. Invaluable.

SPEAKER_02 20:04

Oh, that's great. So do they do anything at a local level or national?

Federation Role And Industry Influence

SPEAKER_00 20:08

All the time, no, no, no, very much like. It's specific to whatever the needs are of the members. I would say in Scotland, as obviously it's my bag, um, that we are really proactive. So there's 15 on the board. Um, and just recently we went to Kilmarnock, it's almost like you know, the hard hat talks you maybe heard can we talk about that?

SPEAKER_02 20:29

Yeah, that's uh uh Kenneth from Block Architects. Aye, yeah, yeah, yeah. So there's similar things like that.

SPEAKER_00 20:34

He's brilliant, and Gordon, the Federation of Master Builders Director in Scotland, has been on his podcast as well. But so recently, just in Kilmarnock, um Juicen's hosted us for like bacon rolls around a room, and it was fantastic half past seven in the morning, and it was for members but also non-members to come and see what we do, um, and just chat. And that to me is really valuable because maybe you've not spoken to somebody out with for weeks or you're maybe in a particular frame of mind that nobody's actually asked you how you are. So these are super important. So Juicen's host us there, and we're actually doing one in Juicen's in Iowa at the end of this month. So, yeah, we do things at local level, it could be up in Aberdeen. So it's whatever we think um would work and and what what the demographic there's over 300 members in Scotland, so we're all over from Shetland to Orkney as well. And we're actually just last week, we're at our last meeting there, we're at Velux in Glenrothis. So it's really stuff that we think that the um members would would like. Um so it's great, and obviously we may be having quite a big gob. I'll kind of pitch things to go and go, Oh, I met this guy, he's offered up to do this or this this kitchen company wants to host us, and um it's really good. And we have four meetings a year, big meetings a year, and it's obviously an AGM. So we do have social. So after that, we'll go for a beer. Yeah. Like a weapon sector or a champagne, you know. But it's nice, so you do you'll have completely serious, and when I host the meetings, I c I have my phone next to me for the time just to make sure because I I appreciate the people's time and the value of it. Because you know, when you're a micro SME business. You know? The time just runs away. So you've committed to that because we're doing it for free. It's not any monetary value. This is because we want to do it and be better.

SPEAKER_02 22:10

So you're purely looking at Will through the lens of the construction industry. I'm a property developer when I'm not running hotels and doing podcasts. But that's kind of what I get more. You know, I get more of a drive from doing that as opposed to, you know, operating a a business once it's complete. But um you know, I I kind of mix in circles with property other property developers, like-minded people, property investors. Yeah. Um there's lots of construction related people and architects and what have you come to those types of forums. Um, but you're looking at purely on the construction side. Do you do you get involved much with the developers? That's something that we're small to medium-sized developers in particular.

Local Events And Member Support

SPEAKER_00 22:53

I would say that's something that for Kevin and I, for our next kind of natural progression, is what we're looking at. Um we in our own kind of plan, um, not even exit strategy, I would say just a progression to where we are. We've got a bit of money to invest. We make a lot of money for other people, which is great, but we're going we're kind of at a stage now, the kids are older, as I say, oh, what is for us? And it is, I think, either buying and flipping or getting a bit of land and building our own. Um we've not quite found a unicorn, but we'd love to have the house and the workshop because we do do a lot of manufacturing as well. We just can't find that sweetness.

SPEAKER_02 23:25

In terms of your own premises, do you?

SPEAKER_00 23:27

Yeah, uh-huh. Because we rent at the moment. We rent at the moment, so um that would be the dream to do that and have that hustle going on. And maybe Kevin just works so hard. I mean, he's up at night at half six in the morning, he's a fit guy, but you know, I shouldn't say it, but uh there's a shelf life. Your knees are knackered, but he's uh he he'll never not ever do it. I know that. But it's more now about self-preservation. Go, really, are we gonna knock knock ourselves sit to the ground doing it for other people, or let's turn that around. So that yeah, 100% is what we're looking at.

SPEAKER_02 23:58

It took me 30 years in the courtwood industry to decide to do something different, which is exactly what you're talking about.

SPEAKER_00 24:03

I mean, without a word I we nearly lost it all in 2020. It was so difficult in the c the couple of years after that, but it really was it was fight, it was fight mode, and even to sit here now in 2026 and be able to be in the position that we can do by LA or buy a bit of land or do that is incredible and I'm incredibly thankful. But I'm proud that we do that because I had nothing, you know, we've had nothing. Um so yeah, that's for us, and that it's gonna be the next step. We're just really quite frightened about it, you know. It's that bit because I'm in control of it the night. Like, yeah, yeah, I can control these businesses. Brilliant, brilliant, brilliant.

SPEAKER_02 24:40

You just need a bit of inspiration from other like-minded people who do similar things.

SPEAKER_00 24:44

100%, and that's what I love about the networks that I uh that I'm in and the people that I know. They are inspiring, but and it and it's they're telling you the truth. You know, I hate people that are you know, they're just telling you what you want to hear, or you know it's absolute rubbish. I was gonna swear there, but you know that you're doing well. I know I really am doing well, I'm swearing. Um no, so I you know, uh that's I've learned that over the last good I was even just the last couple of years is what I'm not I'm not prepared to accept. I go, No, you're not for me, thank you so much. And I'll just step back politely. I don't want to be rude to anybody, but I go, not for me, thanks so much.

SPEAKER_02 25:17

You know, on you go. Yeah, and uh collaboration, partnering. Um what types of partnerships have you established with master builders?

SPEAKER_00 25:28

Many architects, engineers, uh interior designers. So I work a lot um with local companies specific, but I do work with a national.

SPEAKER_02 25:36

Feel free to give them a plug. Oh perfect.

SPEAKER_00 25:38

So yeah, interior design is Corey Muir Interiors, love her. Dougie Bullets. Yeah, yeah. So I think I'd mentioned Dougie the first time you ever met when we're walking around, it's just great.

SPEAKER_02 25:50

Yeah, absolutely. Then I'd happen to bump into him with a networking event straight after that.

SPEAKER_00 25:54

So no, they're two of my favourites.

SPEAKER_02 25:55

Serial networker.

Toward Development And Premises

SPEAKER_00 25:56

Ah yeah, he'd he's uh he's on it, yeah, yeah. Because Dougie and I actually met years and years before when he worked for another architect's company, and I wouldn't have been much more I wouldn't have been involved as much as I was then. So even just our relationship, that would be I'd probably be quite not it's not his fault, I'd be quite intimidated by him. Architect, they're better than me. You have that narrative when you're not feeling yourself or you don't feel confidence. But now, you know, we phone on the phone almost every day. Obviously, every day, I'm meeting them later on today, but another project we're working on. So yeah, I love that.

SPEAKER_02 26:25

Time always nice to him.

SPEAKER_00 26:26

Ah yeah, it's just yeah, I love that. But even local suppliers like Juicens, you know, in there speaking to the guys I annoy Greg on the Daily, we've got Gaynor, because it's shout out to construction mate for the females, is Gainer and Howden's does the kitchen designs. It's brilliant, so you really get to know these people. And as I say, like I I am a bit of a potty mouth, so it's good that I've off a phone they know I'm not swearing at them. It's like, uh how's your day? So it's nice, it's it's brilliant. So their relationships mean a lot to me. Um, and yeah, I think but you need to support each other because you you know the journey it can be hard.

SPEAKER_02 26:59

So if you've got people that you know that's actually a good segue into um I know you're well I've heard and I'm kind of sensing it, you're very passionate about entrepreneurship, particularly when uh you know kind of women are involved in in uh you know getting going in the construction industry in particular, but just in general. So um, you know, you talked a bit a bit about kind of being parts of networks, groups. What types of groups and networks are you part of? That gives you the opportunity to mentor, coach, and support other females.

SPEAKER_00 27:30

Yes, I don't do particularly a lot of networking per se, but I am part of Bowie, which is a British Association of Women Entrepreneurs in Scotland, which is fabulous, and that is just a full plethora.

SPEAKER_02 27:41

Is that the one that uh Karen Chair for Scotland?

Partnerships With Designers And Suppliers

SPEAKER_00 27:45

Don't think she's the chair, no no, the chair, um yeah, maybe vice chair. Um but it just a plethora of fantastic women, all different rages, stages, ages in their business. Ah, incredible. So for me, that's more a social thing. You get a lovely dinner at Cromlix, shout out to Cromlix. Um so that's really good. But what I do uh what I do in my spare time, um I do career ready. Um I've done career ready for six years now, and that is mentoring 15, 16, 17 year olds in fifth and sixth year at high school. So I'm in the fourth valley aspect of that. So that for me was something I really wanted to do after the whole COVID debacle when I really hit a low point with my mental health that way, because we were losing the business. So it was a terrible time for construction, domestic construction. So I thought, if I feel this bad just now, how are these young adults feeling? My kids at the time, my daughter was 19, she came back for uni to be in the house, my son was 15, and they were alright, they'd obviously seen business, so they were fine. And I actually said to my daughter, look, I don't know if we can support you at uni um financially because we don't know what's happening. She went, Mum, it's alright, I've got ya. And I thought, wow, and then I kind of kind of shook myself and thought, well, she's got a resolve. I've obviously been we've been good parents that she's you know quite quite pragmatic. What about the kids that are missed that or have never seen that or don't have the coping skills? So I went and sought advice, and I actually that's when I first met Gordon Wright. I don't know if you've came across Gordon.

SPEAKER_02 29:13

I certainly know the name.

SPEAKER_00 29:14

Employ uh employment engagement forum. I'm Employers Engagement Forum, he's brilliant. Sterling Council. Oh yes, I have. Brilliant.

SPEAKER_02 29:22

Yeah, Gordon, yeah. Yeah, so I've been on a Zoom call with him.

SPEAKER_00 29:25

Ah, he's such a brilliant guy, so proactive, champion young people as well. So I kind of the way I got to see found him and chat is like, I really want to help, I don't know what to do. But obviously I've got the resolve and the and then the maturity to kind of deal with. I want to make I want to make imp impactful help. He went, Well, we do this thing and da-da-da. So then Career Ready came around and so I signed up. And it's been one of the best things I've ever done. I've had four or five mentees now, uh, all completely different, and I love it. I love it. Um it's yeah, it's great.

SPEAKER_02 29:57

It's nice giving back. We've got a few students coming through the doors in the coming weeks from Fourth Valley College and the second year of their H and D. You know, I was giving a leg up when I was starting out.

Mentoring Youth And Building Resilience

SPEAKER_00 30:08

I've never forgotten that. Somebody's helped you in your life, you know. You should never think that you've got there on your own, you know. And I just think if you've not got that opportunity, be that opportunity. And I really believe in that because I I know myself that when I was at high school, I don't know, you know, I didn't have confidence as such. I didn't know I couldn't do something, but I wasn't that person. So can you just be that person for somebody? I mean, I know I'm uh an oddball to some people, but I treat them like young adults, but I also tell them like I look like an adult. I'm really not. You know what I mean? And that's yeah, I get on their level and and many of them don't want to be in construction per se. So we'd do projects because what happens we create already, it's an 18-month course. They get a four-week paid internship in your company. So they're not getting it's not they're not working for nothing. It's brilliant. So you make that excitable, make it enjoyable, make it tangible that they've got something they can take on to either college or more than a work experience. 100%, especially now with the minimum wage and stuff like that. It's a really good hustle. But it's brilliant, it is hard work. I'm not going to say it's easy, it's a big commitment. But I think anything that's worth working for and doing is hard work. But the result, I just love it. I just love it. It's yeah, and off the back of that, I I'm now doing my mentoring for adults as well. So I should qualify at the end in Nick. This month, actually, it's March now. So yeah, so yeah.

SPEAKER_02 31:22

So you're doing a course to qualify to be a formal mentor.

SPEAKER_00 31:26

Yeah, so I did that through the help to grow at uni in 2022, and that really just gave me so much price.

SPEAKER_02 31:33

I met with Kevin Grant last week. He was talking about help to grow, and he mentioned your name and people like Graham from Occle Foods. Yeah, yeah, yeah. He was the first cohort.

SPEAKER_00 31:42

I was the second. Absolutely. That really changed me. I was a game changer for confidence because it was because I always felt the imposter syndrome, because I never went to uni straight away and stuff, because now I've got probably more qualifications than I can even write down, but um because that was important to me, but I always felt a bit of failure for that at school. Right. You know, uh, and I've never forgotten.

SPEAKER_02 31:59

It's never too late to keep learning. Every day is a learning day.

SPEAKER_00 32:02

But it's actually not also not a failure because what I've learnt despite that has got me to where I was. But that's what I tell my young adults. I go, look, this is no a straight road. You're gonna make mistakes. I says, failures lead to success. I says, every successful person has failed. I says that is fact. I says, I fail every day. I says, but you don't stop at that. You bounce back. Yeah, yeah, it's not failure, you know, it's failure if you stop. You know, keep on hustling. And I believe in that, and I and I wish I had somebody back in the early days to go, uh nah, you don't have to have it all worked out. You're gonna get there. Dead end, roundabout, reverse, but you'll get there.

SPEAKER_02 32:36

Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 32:37

You know?

SPEAKER_02 32:37

No, great, uh, you know, great, great and your kind of uh motivation there. So in terms of I always ask this question, um, particularly to people who've kind of had had similar journeys to yours where you know they've they've had the kind of you know, ebbing and flowing. So now that you're older, wiser, more experienced in the world of business, what would you say to your younger self if you were starting all again?

Adult Mentoring And Lifelong Learning

SPEAKER_00 33:00

Back yourself um and don't listen to people that are overwhelming you. I think what I f thought again imposter syndrome that everybody I assume people were um better than me, just naturally. Then why should I thought that? You know, back yourself, value yourself, um and go for it. I would say go for it. If you don't try, you're never gonna get. You're never gonna do so. Yeah, and I think that's probably one of the things I regret most is I never gave myself what I was giving other people. I would I I would always bolster other people and go, Oh, you can do it, but I wasn't telling myself that. So that's a bit of a regret of mine. And it's one thing with my kids that I'm so proud of that I never gave them any man securities. They'll have their own, oh god, they'll probably write a list on me or whatever. But you know, and my daughter is she's our teacher, she is so confident and she's so gregarious. And my son, he's my I'm gonna say little, but he's six foot odd, but he he's so he's a he's a quiet boy, but he's full of passion, drive, literally, he's a racing driver on the side. He's you know, he won the championships. So he's got that he's got the bit between his eye, but he's not a person that would bulldozer you. You know, he's a very polite boy. I mean he challenges me, but anyway. But he's allowed to, though. Well, something not I don't think so. Um you should be nice to his mum. Um but I see uh seeing them is really just gave me this second wind to go, I must have been alright, you know. But why was I not telling myself that? Yeah, yeah. And I think that's a bit that really it's it can be quite it upset me, you know, that to go why am I not giving that to myself and I'm giving it freely to everybody else kind of thing. So but to see my kids and being so I would call them successful just because they're just nice, nice people, but they're they're they're polite, they're well mannered, they they work hard, and they've both worked in the business as well. My son's on a hiatus, he's doing his dissertation just now. But he'll be back in the business as well. My daughter done it in our gut, yeah. You know, um so yeah, I'm proud of that. I'm proud of that. So they've taught me something as well. Didn't know that.

Advice To A Younger Self

SPEAKER_02 35:01

But so Pam, thanks for your time. It's been a fantastic uh chat and really kind of uh interesting to understand a little bit more about the construction construction sector in particular with when it comes to women because um not a lot of people are you know would would would kind of know um you know some of the kind of things that are happening in construction in that regard. So thank you very much. Appreciate your time. And um we'll have you again uh again soon at some point. I hope so.

SPEAKER_00 35:27

Well I've got something else coming in the pipeline, so it'd be great to maybe have a little catch-up. Yeah, it's about training and bringing a platform for people coming out of construction.

SPEAKER_02 35:37

That could be a great uh topic. And you know, we're we're we're trying to kind of help the guests and and and listeners understand a little bit about what's happening around Stirling, the Fourth Valley in particular. Um very diverse kind of range of topics, and that sounds like a great one. You're on piloting it.

SPEAKER_00 35:52

I'm gonna pilot it in and set in Stirling, but I'm actually talking at Fourth Valley College um on Thursday as well, but apprentice week. So for me, it is bringing in my local area. We got the opportunity so much for it. Thank you. Thanks.

SPEAKER_02 36:05

Thank you, Pam.

SPEAKER_00 36:05

Thank you.

SPEAKER_02 36:06

Take care. Thank you again for attending the Sterling Business Podcast. Uh, we had Pam Wilson this week, uh, female in the construction industry. Uh, not many of those, I think about 15% of the uh women in in the construction sector. So thank you, Pam, for a very insightful conversation, and uh we'll talk to you all again soon, you know.