The Spiritual Grind
Dr. Jenni PhD,RN,CHLC,CH and medium and Rev. James ORD, MhsB have spent countless years studying and practicing many modalities within the "Spiritual" domain. Dr. Jenni has dedicated her life to helping others by attending countless schools and developing each of her practices and strategies. Rev. James has studied many modalities and Native American practices and they have Both decided to open their library of knowledge to share this information with everyone in a down to earth style, with hope to assist in making your journey easier and more abundant.
The Spiritual Grind
Breaking the Codependency Cycle
Have you ever wondered why chaos seems to erupt the moment you step away from your responsibilities? The answer might lie deeper than you think.
During this revealing conversation, I explore with Dr. Jenni how we unknowingly create codependent environments in our work and personal lives. After returning from a relaxing cruise to find disorder waiting for us, we recognized a pattern worth examining: the belief that "if we're not overseeing the ship, everything goes awry."
This episode takes you on a journey through the psychology of needing to be needed. I vulnerably share my struggle with deriving self-worth from being the problem-solver, the hero who swoops in when others can't handle situations. We uncover how common beliefs like "if you want something done right, do it yourself" actually program our reality to reinforce these patterns.
The most fascinating insight emerges when we discuss what we call the "Patrick Swayze Technique" – the ability to step back and allow others to solve problems their way, even if it means watching them struggle through the process. This approach, inspired by a scene from Roadhouse, challenges the superhero syndrome many of us suffer from.
Perhaps most eye-opening is our discussion about how gratitude can become twisted with ego, creating a cycle where we become "thankful" that people need our help rather than grateful for what we have. This subtle distinction reveals how even our positive emotions can feed unhealthy patterns.
Ready to break free from exhausting codependent cycles? Listen now, and join us at www.themerccenters.org to learn how we can help you identify and transform similar patterns in your life.
Good morning Dr Jeannie. Good morning Dr Jenny. Good morning, we're back in the studio today.
Speaker 2:We're in the studio.
Speaker 1:You're still wishing I was back on the boat. Right, I know it was a good trip. I loved it. I had a good time. Y'all need to check it out. The Margaritaville at sea.
Speaker 2:Yeah, it's a really good cruise line if you're wanting. I feel like it's for those that are seeking just a really relaxed environment. Yeah, don't want to have to wear their formal wear to get in anywhere.
Speaker 1:Yeah.
Speaker 2:Don't want to have to like dress up, just really are looking for a relaxed environment.
Speaker 1:I agree.
Speaker 2:Because that's what I mean. That's what I was looking for was just a place to just go and veg out.
Speaker 1:It seemed to be the majority was a little younger too. It wasn't like a real older crowd, it seemed. The majority were like I don't know, 40s, 50s, I don't know.
Speaker 2:I didn't pay attention to anybody, I went there just to chillax, chillax. I can tell you that from previous cruises that crowd was a little older.
Speaker 1:Oh it was. I've never been on one before older.
Speaker 2:Oh it was, I've never been on one before, but then, um, like, if you go on carnival, there's a lot more younger party animal type atmosphere oh and a lot of the the other cruise lines will have like a formal wear required at certain restaurants, yeah, or they'll have like a themed dinner where you have to dress a certain style to get in as part of their entertainment or activity or whatever. This one was more just Jimmy Buffett style, really Like relaxed.
Speaker 2:People, just really kind of people just really kind of um, you could go anywhere literally in your t-shirt and shorts. Yeah, except for that one restaurant where you had to, where you had to have sleeves it does sleeves and a collar and a collar. Yeah, but it still could have been. I mean, you put on like a polo type shirt one night, and then one night you put on like a little hawaiian colored shirt with your shorts and had no problem.
Speaker 1:So yep, and it was really good food too.
Speaker 2:It was, it was phenomenal yeah, what I can say from being on previous cruises is sometimes the buffet that comes with the meal is iffy, yeah, iffy, and what I noticed with this one was the buffet that comes with the cruise. The food on it, 90% of the time, had a very pleasant taste and flavorful yeah, I agree it was good food, but anyway.
Speaker 1:So we're back in here. We're back and relaxing, chillaxing.
Speaker 2:Yeah, not relaxing, Not relaxing. Back to the grind. The grind for sure. We came back to a little bit of a Craziness. Clean up a little craziness. Crazy, crazy, crazy so we're working on that in our reality of being able to go away, be on vacation and come back and have fine things the way that we left them not necessarily having to come back into total chaos or having to clean up a mess because we weren't here.
Speaker 2:That's a little bit of a pattern, I think. We run, yeah, and that we're working on ourselves is, um, it feels like if we're not here to do it ourselves, it gets a little chaotic or it's not done correctly is kind of what we're running.
Speaker 1:That's kind of funny that you're talking about this, because that was my topic this morning.
Speaker 2:Yeah, so I think we're kind of working on letting go of it being that way, being able to leave for an extended period of time, knowing that everything will run smoothly, and coming back to not a hot mess. Yeah, because we create our own reality Somewhere in our beliefs. We have it programmed in there that if we're not here overseeing the ship, so to speak, everything goes awry.
Speaker 1:Yeah, so that's kind of the topic that I wanted to talk about this morning is are we creating a codependent environment? And do we do it and don't realize that we're doing it, and do we do it and?
Speaker 2:don't realize that we're doing it. I mean maybe, because I mean, let's talk about what is codependency for both parties. The person that's creating the environment, the overdoer, is doing it because that's the best way they can find their self-worth is by overdoing, and it brings you at some point to a state of burnout and exhaustion. Yeah, I agree. And in the perspective of the receiver, is it really beneficial for them?
Speaker 1:It's not really.
Speaker 2:Because we have. It can be and it can't be. That's my opinion. You have to kind of judge the situation Because if the receiver of the codependent relationship is needing to heal from some trauma, drama, drama, and you're there for them being and doing for a short period of time so they can work themselves through whatever they just experienced, giving them the opportunity to uh kind of redo the file of that trauma, yeah, for example, if you just went through an experience of I can't trust anybody, I can't depend on anybody and they need to reprogram that file of people are trustworthy and I can depend on them so that they can reprogram that, then it is nice to have someone come along in your path who's willing to be temporarily the giver of a codependent relationship, so that you can see that and reprogram the frequency that there are people willing to be in service.
Speaker 1:Yes.
Speaker 2:Just to kind of help reprogram. But over time it can bring about and create situations where the person who receives the codependent action can become over dependent upon finding the feel good place outside of them and in the person giving the actions of codependence right. So it's good to have it on a temporary basis, just to kind of get people up and going again, but then knowing when to kind of step away.
Speaker 1:Yeah, you know that's kind of to clarify. What we're talking about is like do you ever in your home, when you try to take a vacation or you try to go to work and leave your kids with somebody, does it become chaotic? You know your environment. Then you come back to a chaotic environment because you haven't given the either A the tools of the people that are there or B are you creating an energetic environment that makes you have this feeling of I am needed there?
Speaker 2:Yeah, and one of the popular adages that runs around in the collective is when the cat's away, the mice will play. Yeah, you know, that describes that and if you're holding on to a belief that's similar to that, then every time you try to go away be a short period of time or a long period of time and that's the belief that you're carrying, then you will come back to chaos, disruption just totally agree yeah, deceivable yeah, you know, and that's where that's where it happens a lot it
Speaker 1:happens a lot with home, when you're at home, when you have kids, yeah, and in your work environment. That's where a lot of people create those two codependent environments. Like I'm guilty of it, I do it, um, you know, but I think I'd probably do it a lot less than I've seen people in the past do it. And because I'm kind of identified it and we actually like to empower people to do what we do and know what we know, and and I'm working on on that because it's about a value system.
Speaker 2:Why do you feel like you're? Can I ask some questions? Sure, Can I put you in the hot seat for a second?
Speaker 1:Sure.
Speaker 2:So in your thought process, why do you feel like you have to work on it? What do you think that you're doing that is not not beneficial.
Speaker 1:I created an environment that where people aren't as comfortable unless I'm around.
Speaker 2:I see.
Speaker 1:And and, and I'm trying not to create that environment and working on figuring out the beliefs behind it. And why? Because that's where a lot of people like me me we create value within ourselves and in our employment by creating an environment where people depend upon me I see and and I want them to be solo.
Speaker 1:but I have this inner thing to where I create an environment where people that you know oh, let me, let me find out from James, let me you know oh, my gosh, I'm glad you're back. It's, it was so much better when you're here. And then you know, you have the other people out there that, like for me it's about being the best at my job. But in this entanglement is the underlying energy of I'm only the best in my job when I'm in charge and I'm in control.
Speaker 2:Or when somebody needs you.
Speaker 1:Or when somebody needs me. And I don't want that. I don't want that kind of energy. What I want is, oh my God, he's really good at his job and he gives everybody the empowerment to do what they want to do. And that's where I'm working towards and figuring out what belief is there, because what makes it resonate with me more is I see other people colleagues or whatever that create their value. Like you know, like that's how I create my value in my job is by creating this dependent environment and which is part of the value of my job. And then I see other people that create value in their job by not doing their job and trying to be that detective.
Speaker 1:So I'm curious how do you see me?
Speaker 2:What is your perspective of me in that concept? Just out of curiosity.
Speaker 1:I think you're good at your job.
Speaker 2:No, I don't mean good at my job, I mean creating codependency by making people dependent upon me versus I think it's just the opposite.
Speaker 1:I think you completely pendulum off of me you don't want anybody to be dependent upon you, and that's what I think that's how I view you is you don't want anybody to be dependent upon you.
Speaker 1:You, you want to make it to where you don't even have to be there, and that's, and I and we kind of balance each other out a little bit on that and I'm trying to find that middle ground of you know being happy.
Speaker 1:But going back to the other topic was is what makes it identify more with me is when I see people that don't do their job and they don't don't do their assigned duties but they create a worth with their seniors, senior senior bosses or whatever, by telling on others or doing doing things that aren't morally and ethically, ethically correct.
Speaker 1:You know, so to speak, the yes man as the as you hear it in the business world, and I'm definitely not going on that side of the world, but I know that I want to be more on your side of the world by creating an environment to where people can have the freedom to make choices, and I educate them on how we like things to operate, because we are in charge, and but I want them to be able to think outside the box and improve upon those things without screwing things up, because, historically, when I have given people the control to make changes and do things they don't do quite so well, and so I've created an environment to where I don't, either either a I am not giving them the information they need, or B we're, we're bringing people in that can't handle that information.
Speaker 2:Okay.
Speaker 1:And then, but I mean, I know I'm creating it energetically and I'm trying to locate that because I don't want that environment to where we come home to chaos or we, you know, we come in from our days off and it's been, oh, you know, a weird weekend or whatever. You know what I mean.
Speaker 2:Yeah.
Speaker 1:And why did you sit down over there? And you? I seen you win some minute ago when I said something.
Speaker 2:I don't know what I said but I don't know, oh, I don't know what I said. I don't know, oh, I mean, there's lots to unpack there for you, I agree. But I don't always want to put you in the hot seat.
Speaker 1:Well, I'm not saying me, I'm talking about for everybody out there, no, I'm saying you Give generalizations. I don't want to be too much in the hot seat today. I'm trying to have a good whimsical day because I've been daydreaming all morning.
Speaker 2:That's what I said. I don't want to put you in the hot seat.
Speaker 1:But we can do generalized things that tell people that we're like me. I'm trying to identify where I started creating that environment.
Speaker 2:Well, I understand doing generalization, but I feel like it if we have a poignant example that we can walk people through the steps so they can kind of see how what we do works is beneficial. And it's just you and me, and you brought up a topic that you're working on, yeah, and so it just would be a good opportunity to kind of walk people through how to find that underlying piece.
Speaker 1:Yeah, well, because it started back a long time ago. This is what I've discovered is I used to be that guy that didn't want to be in the spotlight. I just wanted to be good at what I'm doing, but not in the spotlight. And you know, then as I get older and I move into leadership roles and those kind of things, at some point in my life I got to where I liked being in the spotlight. But in the process of that I created an environment to where things don't operate the way they should unless I'm around, or it's just my opinion of it.
Speaker 2:Yeah.
Speaker 1:And that's where I'm working at. So crickets.
Speaker 2:So I'm just trying to decide what do you want?
Speaker 1:I just want to talk about this topic.
Speaker 2:Okay, it doesn't matter to me.
Speaker 1:Yeah, so I mean, because everybody does it, because like listen, do you remember our waitress at the restaurant we go to all the time? She said, yeah, I took three days off and my whole world fell apart, and so people out there create this world.
Speaker 2:Of course I mean that's why there's those different little sayings or adages out there. I you know, when the cat's away, the mice will play. If I want it done right, I got to do it myself. If I want it done right, I got to do it myself. Those are two very, very big beliefs that people carry that create those kinds of environments.
Speaker 2:Right and and I, I can share for you with what I, what I do not to say that I'm perfect by any means or that I do it correctly, but what I do works for me. And it's not that I don't want anybody to be dependent upon me. I want to give people the education and the tool. I want them to go out and utilize it, practice it whatever it is, whatever the topic is, utilize it. Practice it whatever it is, whatever the topic is, evaluate how it worked for them. Where we need to change up and revisit the process, tweak the process, send them back out to test it again and evaluate, come back for more information. So it's like a here I'm giving you the information, i'm'm giving you the tools. Now go out and try it. Come back and tell me how it went and what you need now yeah not, I'm not going and doing it for them.
Speaker 2:I'm I'm giving them the tools and the information so they can go, do it for themselves and see okay, did I like that? Did I not come back? And I'm kind of like a sounding board and that's how I want it to be. So what that does for me is is I know that when they go out to try this shoe on, so to speak, or try this on for themselves, there may very well be bumps in the road. They may not necessarily do it exactly the way that I taught them. They may figure out their own way to do it with little pieces and parts of what I taught them, but it still gets the same goal done.
Speaker 2:And so I am a little more malleable in giving them space to go out and fuck it up, basically, and come back and let's reevaluate. And so my perspective on oh my God, when I let somebody go and try their way, it creates chaos, and so I would rather just do it myself. I don't live that way. Yeah, I live almost like having a child. You teach a child something and they're not going to do it exactly like you because they're three and you're 33.
Speaker 2:So you give them the space to try it and practice it and get better, even if they mess it up. Yeah, a very good example of of us doing that is when you have that three-year-old who wants to help bake a cake or make the pancakes. You give them the batter to stir and they're kind of sloppy stirs and so the stuff goes everywhere, but but you don't get upset with them it's cute at that age and but you give them the space to learn how to stir the bowl and you don't get incredibly bothered about the fact that they make a mess in learning to do that. And so you carry that concept with you all the way through your journey. When you have an office assistant, for example, and you're teaching them how to do a task, and then you release them, so to speak, and say okay, now go forth and test it out to where it fits you. You know that sometimes the ingredients are going to fall out of the bowl and there's no sense in crying over spilt milk.
Speaker 2:You just clean it up and you either give them more practice time to become more efficient at it or you reevaluate and see if they need additional tools or education to help them get closer to what it is the two of you are wanting to accomplish, rather than having this strict, staunch thing that, when I'm away, things have to look this way in order for me to continue to feel good within it. It's got to look this way, this way. So taking yourself out of that space of a very sharp edged box of how it has to look, giving yourself kind of that freedom that it's okay.
Speaker 1:It's okay if they go out and they do and they don't quite do it the way you want to. It's changing the perspective more than anything. You know the my part of my frustrations of in the within this topic is when you feel like you've really give somebody good quality knowledge and you go over this knowledge multiple times and you tell them parameters and expectations without direct orders on do it this way, this way and this way. But this is the result. This is how I do it, I'll teach you how to do it and this is the expectation of success. However, you get there from point a to point b is up to you, but then they like can't even get off point a and and they it's like the drive is not there to be to get to that successful point, some to sometimes, and sometimes you have those out there that completely convince you that oh yeah, I got this, I'm good, and they may have a success.
Speaker 1:But then they fall back and it's like they like you can't. You know they'll adage you said it right. If you want it done right, you do it yourself. That's one of the attitudes. But also there was something I learned a long time ago that you can never pay somebody enough money to care as much as you do, and that's one of the ones that I'm you know. Those are three of the topics that I'm talking about, because I really make an attempt to not create dependency, but yet it just kind of naturally happens. And so what am I missing?
Speaker 2:Well, I mean you want me to answer that question directly for you for this specific example.
Speaker 1:Yes.
Speaker 2:Well so if you have entangled in your belief system that your value and your self-worth comes from being having people dependent upon you, and it's all tangled up in that, then you're going to kind of keep creating that reality that people need you in order to survive, in order to get through the day. Your presence must be around. You're going to create that because it gives you a feel-good feeling. If we go back to the feeling guidance, how does it make you feel you feel good when somebody needs you? You feel good whenever you can go fix something for somebody. It makes you feel good. And so when we talk about finding that next feel-good place and that next feel-good place that's what makes you feel good Then you're going to keep creating that scenario that makes it to where your presence is required in order for you to feel good by doing things for people. And so you're physically going to keep putting yourself in a situation and creating a reality where you physically are going around doing things for people so that you can feel good.
Speaker 1:Yeah, that's one of the things. That's another parameter within that. I think that's a little different topic than what I do, because I identify the fact that I try to give the dependent knowledge out and I try to allow those people to be successful. But then there's that part of me that that makes me feel good when I get to help people, and so that balance is one thing I'm working on as well. Finding that balance to where it's because it makes me feel good to help people.
Speaker 2:Of course it does it, it it makes. Everybody has that in them. The other part that's entangled in that, for you specifically, is the definition of the expectation of the outcome. Some of that's entangled in there as well. When you give somebody knowledge, tools and education or whatever to go and do something, you have a little bit of energy of this expectation that it must look this certain way and like I'm putting the subconscious parameter right.
Speaker 2:Yeah like it must, like the end goal and the way that the outcome is must be this or I've done something wrong, or I've taught them wrong, or they're not getting the concept. If it doesn't look this particular way, the way it would look if I had done it myself, and so changing that expectation or that parameter, that, even though it looks a little bit different, did it accomplish the same outcome that everybody was wanting.
Speaker 1:Yeah.
Speaker 2:So you have a little bit of tweaking to do.
Speaker 1:Yeah, that's one of the things that I do.
Speaker 2:recognize that you have you know, if you're expecting it to look exactly the way you would do it, you'll never accomplish that, because you're right, you can't teach someone to do it exactly the way you would do it. They're always going to put their unique touch on things, because we're all different and we all are viewing this reality through a different set of eyes, so to speak.
Speaker 1:You know, I totally agree with you on that. I am in that realm that you, that you were discussing, 100% agree, and I am. That's one of the ones I'm looking at to adjust and trying to figure out why. You know, and another portion that just popped in my head that I was looking at yesterday was my feeling of gratitude, you know, because gratitude is very much a in my belief system. Gratitude is very much a in my belief system, a cycle of my positive and optimistic mindset Explain more so, if I am grateful for what I do, for the explanation, if I'm grateful for having what I have and being able to do what I do and having this awesome life with my wife and all this stuff, the gratitude behind that creates this environment of positivity and optimism. It helps create that environment.
Speaker 2:For you.
Speaker 1:For me and most of the time when you read anything, when you go to any seminars or anything about positive mindset, they talk about gratitude. Go to any seminars or anything about positive mindset, they talk about gratitude. Um, but I've I know, knew that years ago, long before I went to any seminars about it, because I got it when I was a young age and being thankful for and having gratitude for my higher self and creating the world that I have now.
Speaker 1:The entanglement that another part of the entanglement is that is doing that in the reverse explain more so, instead of being grateful for what's what's in my environment, in my world, I become grateful that I'm needed.
Speaker 2:Oh, and so I have got that in reverse if you all had, if we were videoed right now live, he would have seen me make a very ugly face and and I'm after talking to two, three people yesterday and they get caught in that same world.
Speaker 1:It's very easy to get caught up. As I am so thankful that I got to help you, help you today, I am so thankful that I get to provide this for you today, I am so thankful that I blah, blah, blah, you know you kind of see it it. It's very easy for your subconscious mind to twist that into value.
Speaker 2:Right, and you understand why.
Speaker 1:Though, yeah, well, kind of, I'm working on that. Okay, but if you have, please elaborate.
Speaker 2:I can elaborate if you would like.
Speaker 1:Please do. Ladies and gentlemen, welcome to the stage, Dr Jenny.
Speaker 2:So okay, so your belief system, the mechanism is designed to always make itself true.
Speaker 1:Agreed.
Speaker 2:No matter whether you view it as a healthy belief or a belief you'd like to change.
Speaker 1:I'd probably say that 10 times a day to people it will always make itself true.
Speaker 2:I probably say that 10 times a day to people. It will always make itself true. And so, with just that premise, repeat the question.
Speaker 1:I didn't have a question.
Speaker 2:I'm sorry, I got knocked off the line. Repeat the statement.
Speaker 1:So turning my gratitude into value. You know, when I become thankful for people, allowing me to help them instead of being allowing the ego to stay out of the way and that reversing on me, you get what I'm saying. So I create a value in people. There's a value that's been created within me when I am able and thankful for doing things for others. Wow, you went completely offline. I did what happened there, I don't know.
Speaker 2:Somebody cut the phone cord.
Speaker 1:What's that about? I'm not sure. Anyway, so when I get in the world like this happened yesterday I had a customer that said oh my God, I am so glad you are here, because it just is not the same when you're not here I was like, oh well, that's not the way I planned that to be. And? And when I got done cause I was fixing something for her and when I was walking back out of the room, she said see, this only gets done when you're here, and so, and that does that kicks you in the ego.
Speaker 2:Why? What do you mean? What do you mean?
Speaker 1:it kicks you, it makes you feel good when somebody says makes you or they're grateful of you. Oh yeah. And you know, do you kind of see the yo-yo effect in?
Speaker 2:that, and so what's basically happening is whenever you have a belief that says I feel really good, whenever I am fixing, I'm being someone's hero. Yes, I'm fixing something physically, making a component work right, or I'm solving the puzzle for this person by putting plans in place for them.
Speaker 1:I'm doing doing, doing, doing, doing for them.
Speaker 2:That makes me feel good.
Speaker 1:Yes, and it feeds your ego and it confuses your subconscious mind on ego and gratitude.
Speaker 2:Right. But the confusion is because that belief that you must have that in order to feel good, it's just making itself true in any way, form or fashion, especially when you get to a point where you're like. I guess what I'm asking is what do you want it to look like?
Speaker 1:I want to create an environment where it's not codependency.
Speaker 2:So use more. Codependency is a very general term. Use more like described to me Like what do you want? Do you want to stop having to always be the one to go do the task? Is that where you're trying to get?
Speaker 1:I'm not necessarily. I do enjoy doing things and helping others. Okay, it would be more the fact of people having the empowerment to do it for themselves when I've taught them, though that would be a better scenario for me. Right, I don't mind going and helping you the first time, but if I have to go back and redo the same thing so you can learn it, or because you couldn't remember it, or whatever, that is, that's where the gratitude gets confused, for me, and so what happens?
Speaker 2:It gets turned into what?
Speaker 1:Oh, I'm glad you did it and thank you for teaching me again. No, for you it gets turned into what it gets turned into ego. It makes you feel good.
Speaker 2:What does it get? Use your emotional words how does it make you feel when you have to go back and do it again? It makes you feel happy. Well, you're missing what I'm asking. You do it the first time and it makes you feel good and you enjoy helping and being in service.
Speaker 1:Yeah.
Speaker 2:But then when you go back and you have to do the exact same thing over again, what is the feeling that comes from that? That's not gratitude.
Speaker 1:Because it always seems to happen in an opportune time. So we would say it would cause a frustration. Because I've given you this knowledge the first time and let you and release you to do it and in that kind of scenario. But when you call me back for the exact same thing, that creates frustration.
Speaker 2:Okay, and so what you're wanting to create is you want to help, but combined, giving them the knowledge and information, so that then they will take that information and be independent doers themselves. Yeah, and that's not just with our customers, that's with our coworkers, everything else, no, I get it.
Speaker 1:But what happens more than anything is when I walk away from them the first time with being happy because, hey, I appreciate you, and now I've taught them how to do it, or whatever that is, and I am optimistic and I have an expectation that they're going to do it next time okay.
Speaker 2:And then when I stop right there, right, because the that, that's where you're getting tangled up in the expectation you have an expectation that they're going to take this information and that they're going to do it themselves next time, and then you don't have to revisit this topic and then that creates frustration in you and takes you from the feel good gratitude I am glad I could help place into the frustration place okay, I agree so if if you have a belief that says I am a doer and it makes me feel really good to go and do things for people, but you don't clarify what that doer definition is, then the universe, by design of the mechanism to make you have a feel-good place, is always going to put you in a situation where you're a doer and it doesn't matter.
Speaker 1:You didn't say I want to be a doer only the first time and then I want that person to do on their own, like precision of kind of redefining what that looks like.
Speaker 2:Because right now you're running a program, you're running a couple of them. Because right now you're running a program, you're running a couple of them and they take turns being the boss. Yeah, I agree, and so you've got to clarify kind of what that definition is. I want to do it the first time for you, but I want you to take the information and learn to be independent and do it for yourself. Yes, take, take this knowledge and go forth, but you also have to get to a place where you're okay with that.
Speaker 2:Right, that's where, that's where I'm at, and there's a part of you that is not okay with that.
Speaker 1:I agree I'm working.
Speaker 2:That's one of the ones, that one of the things that dinged me and that I've been looking at that's one of the things that dinged me and that I've been looking at, because you think you have that belief that if people don't need you to do action things for them, then you are not valuable and you are not worthy.
Speaker 1:Yeah, I agree.
Speaker 2:And so when your value is pretty percentage-wise, pretty weighted on that side of things, then you'll do the physical action tasks and you'll create situations where it may be a repeated task.
Speaker 1:Yeah, Interesting, and so so I would say that the number one thing that that I would tell the listeners to do is holy cow, this podcast is flying by. Um is I? What I'm gonna do today is I'm identifying and removing the expectations of not having to retouch subjects, because there are people that learn slower, because that creates a frustration for me, and then I'm like ah, I just got to start over.
Speaker 2:But that in and of itself is a belief.
Speaker 1:I agree, I agree.
Speaker 2:You don't have to have a belief that people learn slower, and it's really not even your business how fast they learn.
Speaker 1:Yeah, I agree.
Speaker 2:You put the information out there, I agreed. So I think where I kind of was going with this was giving the listeners insight on how we work through a topic and how we dig around in it and how we get each other to kind of really dig down and see the different layers, entanglements in a belief, until they pop up and feel, oh yeah, that was the zinger.
Speaker 2:Let me spend the day looking at that, or that's the zinger. It wasn't necessarily the topic itself. You got to go get the zinger. Let me, I'll spend the day looking at that, or that's the zinger.
Speaker 1:It wasn't necessarily the topic itself. You got to go get your zingers.
Speaker 2:It was how to work through that when you're especially when you're working with your partner or another person. I didn't let you continue on that path because you weren't seeing it yet.
Speaker 1:Yeah.
Speaker 1:I kept digging and kind of nope, nope, come back over here, nope, come back over here because I actually identified this on the cruise, because I would, when we were, I think, where we? I don't know where you were, but I was walking through the buffet area and I heard a server talking to one of the floor supervisors. Yeah, and he said man, I have to help this woman every single time she comes in to eat because she, just, like, she just doesn't remember where everything is. And the supervisor and the floor supervisor said well, that's your job, isn't it? And they kind of bring my bill a little bit because I, in this world that we live in, I create my own job, I create my own world, my own job, I create my own world and my own responsibilities. And so that's where I've been looking at it, that's why it kind of it went to a place of huh, you know that defined moment where I should not be creating a necessity of need for me.
Speaker 1:I should be creating a world of necessity for them to lead their own journey with the knowledge that I'm doing and something I'm kind of lost for the words right now because I'm still trying to get clarity I understand, but I what I would encourage you to do is it's not a should or shouldn't, it's a.
Speaker 2:I was doing it this way. Now I'm ready for a change, because I don't necessarily like it this way now, or I want it to be different, and it's not about them, it's about you and what you want it to look like. Like if you still enjoy doing the task itself once twice.
Speaker 1:Three times a lady. Oh sorry.
Speaker 2:But you want it to be a little bit different. That's what I would focus on. You can't make anybody do anything.
Speaker 1:Right, I agree.
Speaker 2:All you can do is provide information tools and then let them figure out what they're going to do with it. So as long as you're going through your reality trying to do things to get somebody to do with it, so as long as you're going through your reality trying to do things to get somebody to do something, that's a never-ending battle of trying to get the horse to drink when you take them to water. Yeah, I.
Speaker 2:I can see that and so I I would come away from that being my objective and your objective being redesigning your reality to look like what you want it to look like now. Yes, because the way you had it designed before it worked for you and you enjoyed it and it gave you gratitude and it was an enjoyable, pleasurable thing. But now what you've realized is that there's parts of that that are bringing about a different frequency, which is called frustration, and that just means that you're a new person.
Speaker 1:You know, it's really not frustration, it's more of I don't even know how to word it, it's like dang again. You know, it's not really not that it frustrates me, it's more disappointment, I think.
Speaker 2:Actually no, it's aggravation you think so? Yeah, they're all very close in frequency, but it doesn't matter really what, what you call it, what what matters is that you're identifying that it's a frequency that you don't like to live at. Yeah, I agree, it's not a frequency of feel good. Okay, and that's. Don't get tangled up in needing to find the word of it. Realize that you have identified a frequency that you no longer are comfortable or enjoyable living at. Yes, and that is an indicator that you're ready for a refinement.
Speaker 1:Ascension.
Speaker 2:Just a refinement of what you've created.
Speaker 1:Yeah, okay.
Speaker 2:You know you're ready to refine the design of your reality and do something different.
Speaker 1:I agree.
Speaker 2:It doesn't matter what it's called.
Speaker 1:Yeah, I mean, and that's really the key? Well, not really key. I'm going to quit saying that. I keep saying that's the key, that's the key. There's not really key. I'm going to quit saying that. I keep saying that's the key, that's the key.
Speaker 2:There's a reason you're saying that.
Speaker 1:Is there.
Speaker 2:There is.
Speaker 1:Okay. So the highlighted part for me that really rings a bell is I have to make it okay with myself.
Speaker 2:Are you tired?
Speaker 1:Am I tired? Yeah, no, why. Why do you ask that?
Speaker 2:Because your eyes look sleepy.
Speaker 1:Well, I didn't sleep too well last night. I woke up like three times, but no, I'm good, okay. Do I need to go take a nap? Maybe? Hey, I'm okay with that, but do my eyes look sleepy? Really, yeah, I don't feel sleepy. Huh, really, yeah, I don't feel sleepy. So, you know, making it okay in my mind to change that belief is is where I'm at too yeah, there's something.
Speaker 2:There's some aspect of control in there wrapped up in there with it yeah, well, it comes well.
Speaker 1:Yeah, it's all wrapped up with value, how I value myself and is.
Speaker 2:There is control in there.
Speaker 1:Control the masses if I can yeah, seriously there is I can control everything that's going on and that that's where I am. That's one of the things that's entangled in all this that I'm trying to identify, and cut the cut the strings off gee willika man yeah, that's a big one yeah, so that's a big one yeah. That's a big one, Batman.
Speaker 2:You do realize that you have such a powerful ability to control already that you can create a reality that makes you feel like you have no control.
Speaker 1:That's how powerful.
Speaker 2:You know how to control things and have no control. That's how powerful. You know how to control things and you can control. It's just what are you trying to control?
Speaker 1:And why am I trying to control it? That's where I'm.
Speaker 2:And then why are you creating scenarios where you feel like things are out of control, so that you can regain control? Yes, I agree, that's what I'm looking at, but the rabbit hole perspective is that we have so much control and we are so powerful that we have the ability literally to create a reality that makes us feel like we are out of control even momentarily or long term or whatever, for the purpose of growth.
Speaker 1:Yeah, that's the rabbit hole topic.
Speaker 1:You know, that reminds me of that movie, roadhouse. When Patrick Swayze goes into that, into what was the name of that club, he was doing Roadhouse. It was called Roadhouse and it was like his first night or something. He's leaning against that pole and all hell breaks loose and he just stood there and watched, like he's saying to himself yeah, I created this and he's accepting it. I've created this world, yes, okay, so now what am I going to do to fix it? And that's what it reminds me of. He's just leaning against the pole with his arms crossed and he ducks a beer bottle, hitting the pole, you know, and it's like, yeah, I know, I created this. Now I'm just gonna clean it up. That's kind of where I am.
Speaker 2:So I'm being patrick swayze in roadhouse today yeah, because it would be curious to watch it and see if it self-resolves when you become, when you come to a place of being completely acceptant of it and allowing it, does it beautifully resolve without you having to do anything.
Speaker 1:You know, because I see things that happen like Saturday, when we came back and the crazy chaos that was going on here and the people that I thought I had trained and do better were just so big-eyed when things hit the fan of course they are, and you have to swoop in and be the hero right, that's what I'm saying, that's what, really.
Speaker 1:Another thing that rang my bell over the weekend that didn't make you feel good no, it actually irritated me why, because, first of all, it interfered with our time we were trying to eat a nice meal at my favorite restaurant and, second of all, I was disappointed in the fact that this person that we have taught to be a leader in the community was frantic.
Speaker 2:But okay, so let's take that example for a second. But okay, so, let's take that example for a second. So what would you do differently, to change the energy and the trajectory of that situation in that very moment in time.
Speaker 1:Utilizing the Patrick Swayze technique. Well, exactly what I did. I mean I did exactly what I would have done, I think, or I did do what I think my belief system reflects on as I went back through the entire training process again, basically Like, calm down, take a deep breath do this, do that.
Speaker 2:But you went in and you began to fix things for that person.
Speaker 1:I agree, because I had to get to a point of getting this stopped before it created a ton of damage.
Speaker 2:But that's your viewpoint you have the perspective that it was going to create a ton of damage, but that's your viewpoint. You have the perspective that it was going to create a ton of damage if you didn't swoop in and do it for that person, and so that's where the codependency is. You're defining that as not a healthy situation that you no longer want to be a part of, and so, in the so where did I create the point of I know this has been trained, because I remember training it specifically? Okay.
Speaker 1:Why was it not happening?
Speaker 2:And this individual has 30 plus years in a hotel.
Speaker 1:So he knows how to handle leaks.
Speaker 2:He knows how to handle fire suppression systems, but are you allowing him to go in and utilize the knowledge that?
Speaker 1:he has. Are you saying that my control is creating a place of fear for them to make decisions?
Speaker 2:to make decisions. Your control is creating a place where you have to swoop in and do the things in order for you to feel good and say oh, yep, see, look I.
Speaker 1:I'm the hero.
Speaker 2:I swooped in. I'm the hero. I fixed it all Spotlight on me. I am the knight in shining armor. I fixed it for everybody. Look at me. Look at me. That's Superhero syndrome. I am the knight in shining armor.
Speaker 1:I fixed it for everybody. Look at me, look at me.
Speaker 2:That's Superhero syndrome, right? Because he had you left him alone and had you said I am two hours away, dude, I can't get there, you're going to have to figure something out. He would have figured something out because he has the experience. You're just not letting him utilize the experience and figure out the solution his way. You jumped in, you went into action, you figured it out your way, because you're kind of living in that realm of I want the spotlight, I want to be the hero, because that makes me feel good. I want the bragging rights of see, you couldn't do it, I got it done, I fixed it for you.
Speaker 2:The reality is is if you just sit back and lean against the wall and you made this person dig deep into their knowledge base and stretch that part of their brain or that part of their memory and dig into that file. That's there, not only the file you created for teaching, but the one he brought with him and give him the space to spread his wings and utilize what he has. Frantic or not, he would have come up with a solution he would have, but you're creating a situation where he calls you in a state of panic to come and fix it for him, because he is. You've created a reality surrounded by people who are okay, letting you be the hero and letting you have the spotlight of see. I created this answer, this solution, I fixed it. Everybody, look at me. Rather than creating a situation of okay, I know you have the tools, karate, kid wax on wax off.
Speaker 1:Now go forth and use your tools I'm gonna sit here and trim my bonsai tape and I am not gonna get involved.
Speaker 2:It's kind of like whenever I work with him in the kitchen and he going to get involved. It's kind of like whenever I work with him in the kitchen and he wants to get involved in the server process and I'm like step back and get out of the way and stop doing their job for them. Step back, get out of the way and stop doing his job for him, because it's kind of a bifurcated thing. You're creating it for your own.
Speaker 1:That means a Y in the road.
Speaker 2:For your own benefit. But also you're teaching this person a hidden technique that hey, if I act stupid and I act like I don't know what I'm doing, then I know this person will come in and do my job for me and I won't have to.
Speaker 2:Interesting won't have to interesting.
Speaker 2:So then that person learns as a in inadvertent consequence from that.
Speaker 2:They learn that, hey, if I, if I pretend like or act like I don't know how to do this or don't know what the solution is, then I can get myself in a situation where I stand around and hold the flashlight while this person goes into action and actually does the work.
Speaker 2:Fair enough, I created that, and so you have to make them go into action and do it for them, even if and at first when you start practicing that it'll be uncomfortable because you'll want to jump in and just do it for them, because they're not doing it in a timely manner or they're not doing it the way you would do it. Or you can foresee that if they do it the way they're doing it, they're not doing it in a timely manner or they're not doing it the way you would do it, or you can foresee that if they do it the way they're doing it, they're going to have this problem and this problem. But having them experience those problems sometimes is a huge learning turn for them, and so you have to let them have the bumps in the road, because it will bring them to those epiphanal places, and that sometimes is what people need. They need the major chaos in order for things to click in their own brain.
Speaker 2:Yep, I'm with you so sometimes you need to Patrick Swayze it.
Speaker 1:Okay then.
Speaker 2:If you truly don't want it that way anymore. But if you want to continue to be the superhero, then you got to embrace the components that you've created or designed, and that means you run around sometimes with your feet of fire.
Speaker 1:And at the end of the day, these feet are on fire.
Speaker 2:You're exhausted because you've filled your plate with a lot of nonsense that people should be doing for themselves, but you're not letting them.
Speaker 1:It's crazy how we create our world sometimes. Anyway, I feel complete to you.
Speaker 2:Yeah.
Speaker 1:Hey guys, Thank you for listening to the Spiritual Grand.
Speaker 2:Yeah, this was just an opportunity for you guys to see how the process looks whenever we really get into digging around in something. Somebody wants to change, and this is what we do with the clients that reach out to us through our website, wwwthemarkcentersorg. We have um appointments available and this is kind of what it looks like. We kind of just dig in and guide you through finding the bump up against places for yourself. We don't do it in a manner that it's like you come in, you sit down in the chair and we get in your face with the spotlight and a finger in your face saying, okay, this is this, this is this, this is this. You know, it's just a gentle kind of conversation. Yeah, where we're, you know, guiding you through that in a gentle manner. It's very relaxed. It's not ever a judgment pointing fingers you're doing it wrong. It's just gently guiding you through how to find that for yourself so that you can do it on your own.
Speaker 1:Agreed.
Speaker 2:And that's what I was wanting to take. It is just show them kind of what a session looks like when they come and utilize us as the voice of their higher self, which is really what's happening.
Speaker 1:Thank you all for listening.
Speaker 2:Yeah.
Speaker 1:Like, follow, share and don't forget to ring that bell. Hey, don't forget to check us out on all of our social media. It's at the Merck centers and drop us a comment. We'll talk to you. We have no problem. Problem, have an awesome day love you.
Speaker 2:We'll see you next time.
