Throwback S1E24: Funeral Etiquette Without The Awkward

We are throwing it back to Season 1 Episode 24, which was part 2 of our Funeral Episodes. Death may be universal, but funeral etiquette remains surprisingly complex territory—filled with unwritten rules and unexpected social landmines. We're diving deep into the politics of saying goodbye in this candid continuation of our funeral conversation.

Transcript

Welcome Back To Funeral Round Two

SPEAKER_00 0:08

Welcome to the Dysfunction Junkies Podcast. We may not have seen it all, but we've seen enough. And now, here are your hosts, Chrissy and Kerry.

KERRY 0:22

Welcome back, Junkies. I'm Carrie. And I'm Chrissy. So, our last episode, we went down the rabbit hole of funerals. Yes. And we just had such an amazing time with it that we didn't even get to all the content we wanted to talk about. Here's round two. Yeah.

CHRISY 0:41

If you still aren't completely losing your mind yet, uh but the this subject has a lot to touch on. It does. And it affects all of us. And we've all had these sort of experiences. I'm sure plenty of other experiences that we aren't going to touch on, but it is an experience.

KERRY 1:00

It is. It is life. And you know, it is kind of fitting for the season because we're winding down in Lent. It's Easter week. Easter's coming up. So let's talk about death. And I promise you, our next episode, we will liven it up and talk about life and Easter bunny and all kinds of fun things. But we're gonna finish up this episode on funerals. Okay.

CHRISY 1:21

I'm with you. I'll follow you. Go for it.

KERRY 1:25

All right. Carrie, go. Carrie go. Chrissy did that a couple episodes ago and it cracks me up. So we we quote about that a lot. Alrighty. I think we were talking while we were talking about bereavement meals or the mercy meal. We were talking about why do people show up to funerals and everything. Let's take it from the car lineup and the seating arrangements. Let's go from there. Chrissy, your thoughts. Well, I see your brain percolating over there.

CHRISY 1:54

It just

The Receiving Line And Social Anxiety

CHRISY 1:55

at a funeral, I I I guess I didn't really ever realize that there until uh, you know, I lost probably a parent because prior to that, uh, you know, it was either a grandparent or or somebody who I wasn't closely related to. Right. But there's a specific place for uh the close immediate family to be placed in the line into a funeral home to greet people who are coming to offer their respects. Right. Being somebody who would go to a calling hours to someone who I I I knew, and again, I don't go to many funerals. I I choose I don't find uh that I don't feel it satisfies anything in me as far as the grieving process. And you know, I don't know that my presence there offers anything to that family. Uh I'd rather just maybe uh talk to them on the phone afterwards or see them personally outside of that and and talk with them about the sadness of the loss. But it is an awkward thing when for me, just for me, yeah, to have to go through the line and the seating of the family because these people are at that moment and in in in that period of time at the worst part of their lives. Exactly. They've lost somebody who really was their life, part of their life, and it that part of all of that is now over, and they're trying to figure out how they're going to move on, and they have this distraction, which I guess now there's some people who might tell you that that part of it and having the the community and friends come and reach out to them, it's definitely healing for them. Yeah. And I don't disagree with that, right? It's not something I experienced ever in that kind of process, but it obviously stems from something that they felt that this whole process is helpful.

KERRY 3:46

Right. I think what we need to do is like this most recent funeral I was at, where the casket was at, you could go either on the right side or the left side. I almost felt like if you went on the right side where the family was, then if you knew them and you were intimately knew them and wanted to express something to the family, you go in that lane. But then you could have the express lane on the left side where you could just go up, do what, say your little words, if you want to pat them on the shoulder, whatever it is, but then you can bypass the family. And it's in no way a disrespect to the family. To me, it's almost more respectful because if you don't know them, you have social anxiety. Like I I tend to have anxiety a lot. And so, like, it puts me in a lot of anxious situation. Like, what am I gonna say to these people? Like, I don't know them, you know? And it should be just equally as acceptable whether you want to go to the family side or the express lane.

CHRISY 4:38

I I totally am on board with that. Isn't that a good idea? Well, here's the other thing that happens a lot, and I'm sure everyone who's been to a calling hours has experienced this. You have a lot of people who generally are coming all at the same time. Yes. After work or whenever the time is scheduled. Yes. So now you've got a line.

KERRY 4:55

Yes.

CHRISY 4:56

And then you have people who are talking.

KERRY 5:00

They don't read the room.

CHRISY 5:01

And they are just staying up there and they're just talking with the family a lot.

KERRY 5:06

And it's usually about themselves, it's usually nothing to do with the person. Right.

CHRISY 5:09

You know, it's just it it's not the time to do it. And so now you're you are feeling socially awkward because you're standing behind these people waiting, yeah, which is making you overthink the situation. True, yes. And depending on where your placement is in that line, if they have you going us now, I've had two different lines, I guess. One where you are greeted by the casket first. Yes. To go and kneel. Yeah.

KERRY 5:36

I prefer that first.

CHRISY 5:37

Because then you can make your own express link. What if you got the people talking in front of you? Now you're hanging out with each other. Yeah, that's true. And you keep you trying and get him to wake up. Yeah. Because you keep tapping them. Because I think it's probably a nervous thing. You're like, okay, well, while I'm standing here waiting, I mean, maybe, you know. Comfort them, yeah. You know, yep. Yeah. Hey, anybody. Are you dead yet?

KERRY 5:58

Yeah. Are you still?

CHRISY 6:01

Can you hear me? Can you hear me now? Can you hear me now? Oh God. Again, yes, I am scheduled for help. I'll just say a couple Hail Marys and Rosies and Bible. So it's it's very uncomfortable. It's hard. And you know, so if you're doing that, and I, because I am not a very religious person, I I I feel awkward if I were to have to kneel. So I generally opt out. And in fact, I think sometimes people they don't even have those there anymore. Depends on the funeral home. Yeah. We're real really funny, uh sort of funny, really quick story. When I was very little, the few funeral I uh went to was my grandmother's and I was, like I said, six or seven. Well, my little friend who I had hung around with who lived in the neighborhood, because we lived in the neighborhood with my grandparents, my grandmother. Nope, it wasn't Fingers. Okay, it was uh another childhood friend that was sort of around the same time as Fingers, but actually had predated her a little bit because this friend was older. She came to the calling hours with her mom because we were close. And she again they lived in the neighborhood too. And I she got so like by then I was like a veteran because I'd already been hanging out there for the day. Yeah. So nothing was affecting me.

KERRY 7:14

You were desensitized.

CHRISY 7:15

So I tried to like go up with her to kneel at my grandmother's casket together to sort of just hang with my buddy, and you know, you came, you came for me, and I appreciate that. She was so filled with anxiety. Oh. I remember there were tassels on the kneeler, and she got so nervous. I think she had a tissue in her hand, and she thought she was tearing the tissue. And she was tearing the tassels.

KERRY 7:41

She ripped all the tassels off the kneeler, but they were all over the floor. Oh, the poor thing. See, this is the dysfunctions. That poor girl probably can never go to a casket to this day. She's probably traumatized.

CHRISY 7:58

I hate to add a really bad thing to this, but she's diseased. My little friend, she passed away. She was a couple years older than me, but unfortunately, she unexpectedly did pass away. But I didn't mean to bring it down even more as if I could bring this down anymore. But yes, I do remember her ripping those damn tassels off of that kneeler. Probably shouldn't have kneelers with any sort of fabric on them. Yeah, I mean, so yeah, the kneeling thing is awkward to me. The waiting to speak to the family is awkward. I I think just going and and you know, when you get a chance, give a hug. I'm very sorry. Yeah, you know, and and move on. Right. Because anything you see in that moment, and the longer you're made to like hang or I just always feel so bad for the family.

KERRY 8:45

I really do, because it's like you said, people are coming through, you're at your worst moment. Ugh.

Flowers After The Service And Quiet Politics

KERRY 8:50

But, anyways, the other thing I think is kind of an interesting, and I feel like this is maybe getting a little bit more in the maybe not, maybe a little bit in the past, but flowers. So the amount of flowers, like I think it's so nice for people to send something to show their, you know, if they didn't come to the funeral, then they they send the flowers. But here's the problem after the funeral, you've got all these flowers. Now, I've I've seen funerals where there was only a couple scent. And again, no reflection on the person, just you know, there was only a couple, but I've seen funerals where there were literally 50 or 60 things of flowers. What the heck is the family gonna do with all the they don't know what to do? They don't know what to do with them, and there's just flowers everywhere, and it just is like it's such a nice sign of respect. But I love how people now will do in lieu of flowers, give it to this charity or do this. And I often wonder, like, do the people really do that? Well, I think that some do.

CHRISY 9:46

Yeah. But I think when you deal with your older generation, yes, that they know they have to send flowers. Yes. And I do know what the family does with them sometimes. Not speaking about everybody. What would you do? Well, uh, not me. No, I mean somebody, you know. Have you ever gone to the cemetery after they bury a person? They just throw them all over the top of that turned over earth. I have seen where you go to the cemetery, you know somebody's just passed away. They sort of of course I think they take some of them. Yeah. But again, like you said, what are you gonna do with all this stuff? Right. So they do leave them on the uh I've seen them. Now I'm not saying this is a regular practice, but this is what I have seen in my past.

KERRY 10:28

That makes sense. See, when my father passed away, uh one, his funeral was out of town and we he was buried in his hometown. Really, the only of us that went was family, and although we have a big family, there was a lot of people there, but we didn't we asked no flowers. We didn't have calling hours at a funeral home. It was he was literally just at the church, so you know it that kind of made it simpler. But I did get some people sent me flowers, and I will say, okay, first of all, I do not have a green thumb. I I would love to have a green thumb. I strive all the time to have plants in my house, but they usually die. But I'm very proud of myself because there's one plant that was given to me and it had three, it was like uh three different plant types of flower plants in one. I have since separated them out. They they're still alive two and a half years later.

CHRISY 11:15

Same family of the plant that you presented me with that I still have on my windowsill up there?

KERRY 11:20

The the orchid? Is it an orchid? No, it's not an orchid, it's a parlor palm, and it's a I can't think of it, some kind of ivy thing. Yeah, it was it was that and I still have kept that. And I actually that is nice because it is, I always say, like, that's my dad's plant. And it came with a little cardinal, like little bird in it. So I still have that in there. So like for me, that was that meant a lot because I still have that. You know, like again, if there's 50 of them, I'm gonna do that.

CHRISY 11:48

There's another thing too. Uh the the the politics of funerals with these flowers that I've witnessed is that the older generation usually, it is a practice of them to basically go through and they want to know who sent the flowers. Who sent these? Who sent this bouquet? Or I give you one another one that I've seen people do. The person who's people who sent flowers who are now at the calling hours. Yeah. They want to know where their flowers are arrangements are.

KERRY 12:16

And in proximity to the casket. Yes. Yes. Uh-huh.

CHRISY 12:21

Very, very, you know.

KERRY 12:23

Is it kind of like the bigger, the how that saying goes, the bigger the hair, the closer to God, the bigger the flower arrangement, the closer you were to the family?

CHRISY 12:30

Like, or closer to the closer to the casket, the more important you were. Or that they felt you spent enough money on that arrangement, you need to be displayed. Right. Or maybe your place in society. If you were somebody that a lot of people know, you want to show off and say, look, if you send me there's a whole underlying. Oh, yes. Does anybody ever say this stuff out loud? Because I mean I am. But I mean, uh, come on. If you don't, if you're not realizing that this is what's going on, it this is what's going on. I I think it's beautiful that somebody who wants to send flowers, send it to the family member. Yeah. You know, if you were friends with the daughter, with the spouse, with the cousin, whoever send it to them. Send it to them. That's very I love it. I'm thinking of you. Yeah. I know this is a hard time for grief. Um because the family invests in what they call the casket spray anyhow. Right. And and to be honest, isn't that enough flowers? Because that spray also goes on the graves.

KERRY 13:30

One step. Now see, I knew that one, but I wasn't thinking about all the other ones, but you're right. Yeah. Uh-huh. Yeah. Here goes another thing. Like,

Seating Rules And Procession Power Plays

KERRY 13:37

so we talked about like the the line, the procession, but then it also gets to be the seating in the church or the cars in line to the cemetery. And this is where I kind of going back to my dad's funeral, you know, all of us five girls were right up in the front row with my mom. And then my dad's brother and my mom's brother and stuff were like two or three rows back, which it was like a perfect order. But what got me was at the end when the casket leaves, you know, the first row is supposed to go out behind. So it's the you're kind of stay in that pecking order. And I'll never forget that as the casket was being, you know, taken down the aisle, my sisters and I were leaving the pew to follow behind. Three, four rows back, there was an extended family member who jumped out of the pew to be first in line to walk behind the casket. I was so irritated. I'm like, who the heck? What what are you doing up there? Like, you got the five daughters and the wife. Why are you why? Why are you jumping the. So disrespectful. I I'm still irritated about that.

CHRISY 14:45

Like, it's not about you, you know? Get your own funeral. You know how people have wedding planners? Yes. They need wranglers for funerals to sort of put these people back in their place for behaviors that really are not acceptable.

KERRY 14:58

Was that I mean, okay, tell me, am I wrong? Am I wrong by being upset by that?

CHRISY 15:02

No, you're not wrong at all. And I'm not surprised because again, funerals bring out the absolute worst.

KERRY 15:08

DJ Nick's dying to ad lib.

SPEAKER_00 15:10

Funeral directors kind of being managing those expectations. That's what I'm saying.

CHRISY 15:15

That's what I think. Well, you were you at the church though?

KERRY 15:18

Yeah, we were at the church.

CHRISY 15:19

Yeah.

KERRY 15:20

So the funeral director is probably the funeral director was there because they I will say, when we were getting before service, there was some people that were trying to sit in the front row. And I remember going to the funeral director saying, Hey, that's why are those people sitting in the front row? That's not they should, you know, but here we were on the front row on the left side and you know, whatever. But so I was like, Oh, okay, okay, okay, gotcha. I thought they were sitting in our seats, and I'm like, Well, what are those people?

CHRISY 15:45

You know, so the funeral director might try to help, but in general, I would have to say that uh it's not home base anymore for them.

KERRY 15:52

Well, that's the true thing. They're out of they're out of their jurisdiction. They're out of their jurisdiction. They can't police there because it's not their municipality.

CHRISY 16:00

Right. I have no power here. You're out of jurisdiction. I I can't help you. I I do think that if we continue to find it necessary to do this uh old mentality of funerals, that maybe there is an industry out there for people to start a business as wranglers. Almost like a security. A bouncer. Yeah. A bouncer. What would the bouncer be called at a funeral? I don't know. I don't know. We gotta think about that. I can't, I don't even want to try and come up with something quick here because this one's gonna take some thought. And I don't want to waste this opportunity to come up with a doozy.

KERRY 16:33

Yeah, so that kind of, you know, that that's I remember that. And then I remember going out to the cars, and it was the same thing. There were people that were trying to like jockey to get up further in the line. And it's like, first of all, I'm like, okay, dude, we're literally where my my par my dad is buried at, the church had the cemetery. So you just like went around, like it was like a quarter of a mile. But there are people jockeying. It's like, okay, dude, you're not gonna get lost in line. You know, we're not gonna go through town or on the freeway that you have to worry about getting left behind. No, we're going around the corner. Why, why are you cutting the line to get first? What why? In their car. In their car, yes.

CHRISY 17:10

Yeah, the car thing is, first of all, I've heard many stories of people who have had issue with who is in the limo. Can you believe that they didn't even have so-and-so in the limo? Well, yeah, I could probably believe it. Yeah. Depending on who you're talking about. Yeah. But it's this is something when you just lost someone. Yes. You're wasting energy on who's in the limo. Right. Have you never been in a limo before? I mean, this is what I'm thinking. Is this, was this you didn't go to prom? Oh, I see what you're saying. You didn't get married and have a limo. Is this your last chance of getting in a limo? Yeah. Because if it is boo-hoo for you. Yeah, right. Yeah. I mean, the the limo, the hierarchy of the seating in the funeral home, the hierarchy of the seating in the church. Right. Hierarchy in the car parts.

KERRY 18:02

It's I think they should pass out numbers, you know, like a lottery. The family gets first pick, and from then on it's a lottery. There you go.

CHRISY 18:12

Well, yeah. I mean, I I think this would solve everybody's problem. And there's probably a lot of people who go to funerals on a regular basis probably kind of like that bingo mentality. You bring more people in if they think that they can win a bingo. You know, bingo, who got the center? Anybody got bingo yet? You're in number spot number three. Congrats to you!

KERRY 18:36

Yeah.

CHRISY 18:36

Uh there's a story.

KERRY 18:37

And your prize is one of the flowers from the funeral that's an arrangement of your choice. Yes.

CHRISY 18:45

Yeah, I there's a story that used to float around of my father literally uh getting uh into a fist fight uh uh over a funeral situation, I guess.

KERRY 18:54

Because of their car in line? No, no.

CHRISY 18:55

Uh about the seating in the funeral home. Oh, still in the line. It's still cutting line. So my father, uh not always known as uh a calm gentleman uh all the time, could be a little hot-headed, of course. Uh love him for that. Offered many hours of amusement, whether horrified or not horrified. My understanding was that when my father's uncle passed away and his my dad's father, my grandfather, was not well, this would have been my grandfather's brother who passed away. There was some sort of weird historical animosity or some sort of situation I uh that is so far removed from me, I don't even know what it was exactly. And I'd only be speculating and don't want to do that. But the widow of the uncle who passed away had some issue with my grandfather, and my grandfather, I guess, was not in really good health at that time. They were basically had the family in their line, you know, for to greet people at the funeral home. Well, they had my grandfather standing, they didn't offer him a chair. Oh. And my father got very upset because he knew his dad was not in the best health. Yeah. And everybody else was sitting, and my grandfather was not offered a chair. And this caused fiss the cuffs. It it came to ugliness. Oh. This was, I mean, I was probably I'm guessing either this gentleman passed away before I was born, or I was very little. So I was not in this situation. But uh, yeah, it was a whole fight at a funeral. Now, fun for somebody who maybe just went to watch the drama.

KERRY 20:22

Funeral crasher.

CHRISY 20:23

Yeah. Yeah. Somebody who's just like, yeah, you see what goes going on. This can be completely traumatic for a family, because you're never gonna forget a funeral, and you certainly aren't gonna forget a funeral where people were like brawling.

KERRY 20:34

No, exactly.

CHRISY 20:35

But I'm guessing this is not the first or the last funeral that anybody has a story about where people got into actual physical altercation. No, probably not.

KERRY 20:42

So they probably also, and that's the thing. The dysfunction probably started at a wedding years ago. Or over a woman or a man. Right. And so this has been a generational lifelong thing. So we're gonna start at fist of cups, we're gonna end fisticuffs.

CHRISY 20:58

I hear you. Well, at least it comes full circle and has closure. There you go. They have closure.

How To Tell Someone About Death

CHRISY 21:02

Yeah.

KERRY 21:02

That's a good thing. The other thing is how, what is the best way to tell somebody that somebody has passed? So I this again has many layers. There's lots of layers to this onion. Do you want to know by third party? You know, somebody that you know passes away, but they don't tell you directly. They call your husband, your spouse, or family member, whatever. Or is it somebody passes away and they're very close to you, you make a phone call, or do you send a text message? Or do you just wait for them to read about it in the obituaries? Like, what's your thoughts? How do you want to know that somebody passed away? What would be offensive or what would be etiquette for you?

CHRISY 21:38

Well, depending on who passed away and how close they are to me, but there there are people, and everybody has these type of people in their family who love to be the delivery system of horrible news. Oh, that's true. And so those are probably gonna be the ones that are gonna reach out and let you know so and so passed away. And they're usually the same person. I guarantee if any of you out there think about This when you've heard about somebody passing away, whether close, yeah, probably uh in more circumstances, uh somebody who's not that's somewhat close or maybe not close at all. This is the delivery person with the information. Yeah. Personally, I suppose if I'm really close to the person who is sick and and and passing uh away, I'm generally nearby somehow, or have been involved in the process while it was going on. So usually uh delivered by another family member if I wasn't there immediately at that time when it happened, or I'm there.

KERRY 22:34

I think it definitely needs to be if you're if it's someone really close to you, very close to you, it needs to be somehow of a verbal communication, whether that's face-to-face, whether it's even a third party, hey, they talk to your spouse to tell you because they know that maybe you'll get so upset and they want to make sure your spouse finds you in a good like you don't want to be driving, you know, and get a phone call. So they're gonna call your spouse, say, hey, when you get home or whatever. You know, I want it to be, I want to hear a voice. I want to see either face to face or hear a voice. So a phone call or face-to-face. Text message for somebody close. Got a problem with that. That's got a problem with that. I have to admit, I've not experienced that.

CHRISY 23:13

I have, but it's I have that seems uh uh uh not so good.

KERRY 23:17

Dad, dad passing away, even though I was only short down the road. It was a text message. I I didn't realize how much that bothered me, but it bothers me. Like, yeah, couldn't pick up the phone and say, hey Carrie, I'm sorry, but you you just missed it. Dad passed. No, it was a text message.

CHRISY 23:30

Well, here's one thing I would say with that. If if you are a person, I I had uh, well, I have a s my sister passed away, and that's very difficult. Yeah, I was given a phone call by my brother-in-law, and that was the way it was.

KERRY 23:45

That's third party. There you go. There or no, that was one-on-one. Right. Yeah, that's the way it should be.

CHRISY 23:50

I'll never forget that call because you never do. Right. And that was the right thing to do. Right. He gave me that. That was his That was kind. It was that was compassion. But I now if you have a heart, and that takes a lot on his part to be able to do that in that moment. Because he just lost his wife. Very much so. Right. So I think there are probably a lot of people who can't deliver that kind of information because they're just overcome with grief. And I don't downplay that. I understand. In that case, I think you need to maybe assign or ask another family member or somebody very close saying so and so, you know, to to call.

KERRY 24:26

Right. And see, and I and I th this is the only thing that gives up. And again, going back to one of our episodes about I give people passes.

CHRISY 24:33

Remember, I said, yeah, like I I have a feeling you're not giving a pass on this one though, which I love you for.

KERRY 24:38

Well I think well, I was I I I was giving a pass, and then I started thinking about it more and it was bothering me. But I I am trying to, I'm trying to find compassion in my heart on it. Uh in defense of the family members that were involved with this, obviously we had a lot of text messaging going on, a lot of updates going on about the status and the whereabouts, because it was easier to communicate with all five of us at once because of this. So I feel like it led them into a false sense of security that it would be okay to do a text message. My problem is four of the five of us were there at the time. I was not. So four of them knew because they witnessed it firsthand. I was not there. And so that's where I feel like it would have been. One of them could have made picked up a phone and called. Especially because it was late at night. If I would have been literally 10 minutes later, I would have been asleep and very easily could have missed that text message. I would have hoped that if I if that did happen, I would have then gotten a phone call. Hey, we didn't hear from you. We want to make, you know, but I don't know. I can't speculate that what did or didn't happen in that situation. But I do know that I got a text message. It bothered me, but I kept trying to give a pass about it. But then now I'm like, no, that really bothers me. And I think I have a right to be upset by that. And I agree a hundred percent. But again, I'm trying Well, I do.

CHRISY 26:09

Of course. I know you do. But in general, you would yes, this isn't just some yeah, like distant relative or this is your father. So yeah, I mean, I I and again, I guess maybe I'm trying to give a pass because I'm saying, look, sometimes people are so overcome with grief. And it's that's a hard, horrible call to make. It's a hard. But then I think you need to reach out and say, look, can you do this for me? I can't. Or somebody will usually offer. Do you want me to call so-and-so and let them know?

KERRY 26:34

So I guess that's what I'm hoping by our podcast today, is these are conversations. We talked about this in one of the episodes about preparing for the future, you know, have letting your family know your wishes or whatever. I am letting you know that if if you are very close to me, I want that one-on-one phone call from to know about it if that person has passed away. And if it's, you know, again, like we, you know, this distant cousin passed away. I got a text message about that. Perfectly appropriate. I did not have a daily relationship with this person. I am sorry for the loss. It does sadden me. That text message was appropriate. Inner circle, eh, maybe not so much. Right. So agree.

Wrap Up And How To Support

KERRY 27:11

Wow. Well, I think we tidied up this uh episode on part two episode on funerals pretty well.

CHRISY 27:16

Yeah.

KERRY 27:17

Well, why why did we have to give because we had so much content. I know, but uh cocktails later. Hee hee. Dirty Martini. I know, but I think it's good. We talk about a lot of different things here. We we really go the range of subjects and everything, and sometimes we get deep and heavy, and sometimes it's lighthearted and passing fun. And said these last two episodes may have been a little deep and heavy, but I think it's it's it's all about life, it's all about the dysfunctions of life, and this is our safe space where we talk about things. Yes, we do.

CHRISY 27:46

So, everybody, uh, there is still life, there is still sunshine, and we will be coming at you with some more funny stuff, I promise.

KERRY 27:55

Yes, absolutely. I hope this was informative. I hope it gave you all some food for thought. Thank you for joining us in our safe space today. Please remember if you are streaming us from whatever service you are, whether it's Apple Podcasts or it's Spotify or YouTube or wherever, please hit that follow or subscribe button. If you loved our show, if you would like to comment, good, bad, or indifferent, please find our Facebook page. We are always posting things on there. We'd love to hear your feedback. And you can always uh donate to the show to help keep these podcasts coming at you. Check out our website at dysfunction junkies.buzzsprout.com. And other than that, we'll see you next week. Bye bye, everybody. Bye.