Theren Raufmann

Theren Raufmann is co-owner of Little Beach House, Venice. LBH is a men's sober living in Venice Beach with a strong emphasis on Community and Brotherhood.  

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Host: Seb Webber

Engineered and Produced by: Ted Greenberg

Producers: Laura Bagish, Jesse Solomon, and Chris Hendrickson

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Recorded live at: Beit T’Shuvah, 8831 Venice Blvd, Los Angeles, CA 90034.

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Transcript

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Ah, that's the sound of pink cloud coffee and their exceptional Columbian roast. Pink cloud coffee is an award winning Coffee Company based in Los Angeles with the primary purpose of helping addicts and alcoholics through scholarships and work programs. Sicker than others, listeners get 10% off their first order. Go to pink cloudcoffee.com and use promo code sick 10 for 10% off any beans or merchandise sicker than others, is a podcast on the ups and downs of recovery brought to you from within a treatment center in Los Angeles. This podcast does not reflect the views or opinions of beta shuva or any of its subsidiary businesses or partners sicker than others. Neither speaks for AA or recovery as a whole, but you'll find some useful links on both if you'd like to find out more information sicker than others, touches on subjects and situations that some listeners might find offensive, or, If you're lucky, triggering you have been warned. David Luke, gave it. Hi and welcome to sicker than others. The podcast brought to you from within an amazing Treatment Center in Los Angeles. My guest today is a good friend of mine also threw me out of his sober living, and it's just an all round, really important part of West Side. Aa Theron, welcome to the show. Thank you so much. I'm stoked to be here. It is crazy. It's crazy. So grateful. I could get you one you were you're on my list. And I'm just like, I'm just, I love it when things align. Man, this was like we were texting about a buddy of ours this morning who isn't doing so good. I think is an understatement. Yeah, it's, it's hard to see, and we see it a lot, obviously, right? But when, when you see it to that level where there's homelessness and medical issues due to your homelessness because of your drug use, that's when it starts to get scary, yeah, you know. And I, you know, I was randomly approached by him on my bike. I was with my four year old son riding bikes, you know, in Venice on, like, a weekend, and the guy flags me down out of a homeless encampment, and I'm like, what, what is that you and it was, like, it was really hard to see, and it was emotional, like he was almost crying. I was almost crying talking to him, and it was like, Yeah, I just It's sad. So well, that's why we were talking about maybe going to do a little 12 step. Call him, anyone doesn't know a 12 step call it's when you kind of nudge somebody that needs the help that they so obviously need. And, and I was just thinking about it before we walked in here, the fact that he flagged you down and wanted to talk when I'm in the good side of using I'm not flagging anybody down and I don't want to talk. So it's a good sign point that maybe that's the best he can do right now. The best he can do is, is flag someone down. Yeah, and he didn't need to flag you down. No, he didn't. You could have hid and be like, right there he is. I gotta hide. That's what I would have done, like, for sure. Yeah. So, um, yeah. So I'll get down here. I just want to hear a bit about your story and what you do now and and how you ended up, how much, how many years do you have now, seven, and how you got seven years because you were a real one. Yeah, it was just a long journey. Didn't get it your first time, right? No, I was trying to get sober since I was 18 years old. I'm 33 now, about to turn 34 next month, and I just had a long boat ride, up and down and in and out and trial and error, you know? And I think, you know, I'm a prime example of I've done everything you shouldn't do in sobriety, and I've paid consequences for that, and I've done a lot of things you should in sobriety to get where I'm at today. And when I say get where I'm at today, I mean being able to have stable housing for myself, stable transportation and stable employment, right? And also show up as a friend, a dad, a brother, a son, you know, and an employer, and you can even say an employee, like all those things right, that we that we want or that we envision for ourselves, in order to, you know, in most of our minds, have a successful Life, I feel like I have been able to get all those things, you know. And success, to me is not necessarily materialistic. It's like I said, like, Do you have a good group of friends? Do you have a family or people that love you? And are you able to help and provide for others, whether that's family, your friends, or, you know, just being of service in general. And I feel like I have been able to achieve those things. And, you know, I thank God for that every day. You know, I really try to stay in gratitude. And especially nowadays, I'm really big on, you know, looking at like what I have instead of what I don't have, right? And it's really easy for us in sobriety. Well, just so. Sobriety or not, to get wrapped up in, like, what, what I need, and more and more and more, and, you know, trying to accomplish and strive to be successful in so many different areas of life. And I think if you're able to just be really present and be like, happy with what you have in the moment, and also willing to give it away. You will, you know, get more, yeah, and you will achieve more. I'm a big believer in that. So it's, it's amazing that it took a long time for me to realize, but I really, I do love it when people share about, if you do what's outlined, and you do do what's highly suggested, and help other people, and you're really in it, you're an active member of the community, let's just say whether that's a community of AA, or whether that's a sober living community or a community, if you are a member of a community and you're living by the principles, I haven't seen many people get loaded when they're doing everything. Yeah, correct, right. Agreed. It's kind of crazy, but I've seen a lot of people get loaded if they miss something, and that might be fucking not going to your meetings, or not reading with other people, or whatever that is. And it's like, for me, I also really understand now, like, the idea of, I don't know what works, but what is working is like, it is working. So I don't stop doing any of these things, even though, like, I don't necessarily want to read with somebody this week, or I don't want to fucking pick up the guys to take them to the meeting, like, correct, you know, yesterday I couldn't go to one of my regular meetings. And like, old me would have been like, which I have a commitment at, and I would have been like, All right, I'll get it covered with a text message, you know, whatever. And then I realized, well, there's guys that rely on me to drive them. And I was like, Oh, fuck. So now I fucking make sure they have transport, make sure my fucking commitments covered. And, like, those are the things that fucking keep me sober, correct? So you had a little rough go at it. I know sort of your story, but do you want to tell us about this last time and What? What? What? What? I don't say, what was different, but, but the last pinnacle of drug use into the life you have today? Yeah, definitely, like I said, I've been trying to get sober since I was 18 years old, you know, just dabbling in drugs at a young age. In high school, you know, I became addicted to heroin at 18. And for me, that looked like, you know, just how do I get $20 to get well like every day, you know, and couldn't keep a job, you know, didn't know who I was, who I wanted to be, where I wanted to go. My only focus was, how do I stay well? And then you get into that cycle, which is, I need to go to work to make money, to be able to get drugs to go to work. It's the cycle, right? Which is the most hopeless cycle you can be in, because you realize that you're like, Man, I can't get drugs unless I show up to work. But in order to show up to work, I need drugs. So it's like you're just, you're in this, like hopeless cycle. And I just lived that for a long time. But my last go around, you know, I was 2526 and you know, I was just running around. I was sober three years at one point when I moved out here to Los Angeles, and I had tasted sobriety, and I knew what life could be like, and I learned a lot about myself in that time, but I was young, and, you know, I thought in my mind, maybe, hey, like, that was a phase, right? Like, I'm three years sober, I'm not going to meetings as much. I start to get resentful at the program and the people in it and the whole scene of it. And I thought maybe, like, the drug use was a phase, and it was based around people that I was surrounding myself with and the places I was living. And, you know, at this point I had changed my geographical location. I had a different friend group, and so I said, you know, maybe I can go out and drink socially and, like, date and just live a normal life. I just wanted to be normal, you know. And that, you know, I learned pretty quickly that it wasn't a phase. And Famous last words, right? Yeah, definitely. And, you know, all things always lead me back to the rooms. It starts with the drinking, and then it starts with, you know, the innocent I need to take a Xanax and the cocaine, and then I'm back to the heroin. Nowadays, it's fentanyl, but at that point it was more just heroin. And, yeah, my last run looked like I was 26 years old. I had gotten a girl pregnant from a one night stand we had, and she said, I'm on birth control, and it's fine. And I'm like, Are you sure? And she's like, I'm very sure. And then, you know, month later, she pops in the room and she says, you know, she's crying, and she's like, I'm like, oh, what's wrong? And we were friends, like, right? We were just cool, like, we had, we slept together one night. That was it. And she comes in the room and she's crying and says, I'm pregnant. And I'm like, oh man. Like, that sucks. I wonder who the dad is. Like, I don't even fathom that. She was like, telling me the dad. You know, that's how fucking clueless I was at the time. And and then I'm like, Oh shit. Oh, I'm the dad. Okay? And I was like, Wow, that's crazy. And I was like, well. What's, you know, what do you want to do? Right? Because my first words weren't like, you need to have an abortion, or like you need to figure this out. It was like, What do you want to do? You know, I knew logically, like, it wasn't my choice, right? What she decides to do, and so she, you know, at first was like, I don't think I'm going to keep the baby. It's not a good time. And then a couple weeks went by and I was like, you know, how are you do you do you need me to take you to the clinic? Like, what can I do to help? And she's like, I'm going to keep the baby and then just turn into us talking about it, and we're going to co parent this child together. And we both have no idea how that's going to work or what that looks like, but we're not going to be a couple and we're going to co parent. And you know, that just didn't work out well. She had expectations of me that I wasn't meeting during the pregnancy. And you know, I was pretty much like, living in my car, almost in sobriety, right? Like I had gotten sober, went to a detox, I gave up my apartment, and they said, you can stay at our sober living. And I did. And after about three weeks, they say, hey, the sober living is actually shutting down, like you need to go. We don't have an option for you. And so I was, like, kind of jumping from, like, place to place, like, I had a little Toyota car, and I would, like, have all my clothes in there, and then I would stay at this friend's house and that friend's house and go on this couch. Or my buddy was leaving town for a month, and he'd let me stay at his house in Malibu, and, like, watch over the house, you know, and take care of the dog. So my life looked like that. And in that time, that's when I got her pregnant. And so when, you know, during the pregnancy, I wasn't meeting your expectations, I couldn't show up financially, or I still was running around trying to, like, meet other girls. I just didn't really grasp, like, the reality of my situation. But the stress, I think, that came from the pregnancy, you know, with her, and the fear that was coming my way of I'm about to be a dad. I have no place to live. I hardly have stable employment. I think I was like bartending at that time in sobriety and working at a liquor store, you know. I was just like doing everything you shouldn't do, right? And I start selling Coke, you know, in sobriety, and I'm working at the bar and selling the Coke, and I'm working the steps still, like it was just a very confusing time, you know. And I remember, think she'd like, found out I was, like, selling Coke, and asked me. And I was like, Absolutely not. And, you know, was lying to her. But what happened was, yeah, I ended up the person I was, like, getting all my cocaine from, you know, who was, like, my dealer? He was like, Hey, man, like, I got some Xanax. Do you want them? And I was like, No. And I remember, I took a quarter of a Xanax. I was already low. I never did the coke I dealt. I wasn't doing anything. I wasn't drinking. It started with the Xanax, and then from the Xanax, it went to me calling my old drug dealer. And, you know, this guy's like, a lifelong drug dealer, right? He, you know, he's just a hustler. He sells everything from Pitbull puppies to Playstation and fentanyl and whatever, anything else. And so I call him. He hooks me up. He's like, I have China White, you know? And I'm like, China White, that's something on the East Coast, out here in the West Coast, yeah, exactly. And like, West Coast, we get black tar heroin. It comes through Mexico. And I'm like, wow, it was really just fentanyl. But anyways, long story short, I start using again, and I'm living in a house with like, three or four sober guys, you know, and I I'm oding like, once a week every other week. That's what it turned into. Woke up to me, like waking up in our bathroom, on the floor naked, and like, three hours have gone by, the shower still running. It's like, three in the morning, and it would like, dawned on me, like, wow. Like, I just Oded for the first time, I could have died, and somebody would have found me maybe in the morning. You know, like, hours have gone by, no one even, like, checked the water was still running in the shower. It was nuts. And so I was waking up in the hospital, or waking up in the ambulance or waking up in my car, and it just got to the point where I was like, man, like, you know, things are really fucked up. And she, you know, was hiding the using from her. She went back to New Jersey to have the baby because she was gonna have a C section. Her mom could take care of her. So I flew out for the birth. I'm really strung out. I run out of heroin at the hospital. I start withdrawing. She's like, something's up with this guy. Watch my son be born, like, withdrawing from drugs. And, yeah, it was just rough. I ended up leaving and going into the hood in Newark and, like, asking people on the street for drugs, and some dude, like, hooked me up and took me to some project building and got me drugs, and she knew I was high, and kicked me out of the hospital. And, like, called security, and I, like, ran out. It was this whole, like, traumatic scene, and I came back and just dove deeper. She blocked me so I couldn't see my son, couldn't talk to her. Like, I literally was, you know, ex communicated. I think that's the word from, like, you know, seeing her, the kid, and she just stayed in New Jersey, and I'm out here in LA like, just pretty much dying. And the last straw for me was my friends interviewed on me, you know, they said you need to get sober. You need to call out of work, because I was bartending and doing all that, and I stopped selling Coke, you know, I because I got pulled over, and I almost got caught, and I it was too scary, and I said, I just have, you know, I just had a kid. I can't do this. But, you know, my friends intervene on me, and they took my keys and my wallet, and they got me Suboxone, and I was at the house taking Suboxone, trying to, like, kick the habit. And I think it worked for like, 12 days until the last day of the suboxone taper. They gave me my keys back, and they're like, Okay, seems good. You know, almost two weeks have gone by, and that night, at three in the morning, I remember I woke up and was like, fuck this. I can't do this. Call. My dealer drove over to Inglewood. He met me in a parking lot. I got the fentanyl. I was just smoking. It smoked. It started driving. Next thing you know, I wake up on the freeway and my car's totaled. The paramedics are cutting like, the seatbelt off of me and my sweatshirt off of me. And I like, wake up, come to and I'm just like, oh shit. I just fucking crashed and totaled the car, and I'm about to go to jail and get my second DUI and my fifth possession charge. And I'm like, Oh, this is bad. And it was like, instant panic. Luckily I didn't get hurt, luckily I didn't have to Narcan me. I just came to and I was in the neck in the ambulance on the way to the hospital. I remember, you know, the police like, hey, we know you're on drugs. We have your drug paraphernalia. You know you are gonna get a driving under the influence charge, but since you're in the hospital here, we're not gonna take you in. We're gonna write you a court date. And so I was like, okay, look, I'm fucked. I just had a baby. I can't talk to them. They don't care about me that I, you know, just crashed my car. I just got another DUI, and now I'm probably, I have another drug charge. I just said I need help, like I need to go to rehab at this point. And what happened was, you know, I didn't have insurance, I didn't have any family support. I, you know, like a lot of people at that point, I had no resources, so I was just like, I'm willing to do whatever it takes, you know. I wish I knew about beet shuva At the time, or if this was an option back then, because I would have loved to come here. And yeah, but, you know, I was willing to go to the Salvation Army, and that's what I started looking into, you know. And I had a friend who I helped to get sober at one point, and was dearest to me. And he said, Hey, I'm gonna put you in a treatment program in Colorado, and you're gonna go out there, and you're gonna complete this treatment program, and I'm gonna pay for you to go there, and the only way you can come back to Los Angeles is if you complete the program and then takes finish the steps yourself, the 12 Steps of Alcoholics Anonymous, and then take someone else through the steps, and that's the only way you'll be able to leave. And I said, I don't care. I'm willing to do whatever it takes. You know, I literally have nothing. Now, that's what I did. And I went out there, and I went into this little mountain town in Carbondale, Colorado, which is about 40 minutes north of Aspen, Colorado, and I really built a strong foundation for myself that was built upon principles pretty much surrounding the 12 Steps of Alcoholics Anonymous, you know, and I saw what was important in life to me, and I learned a lot about myself in that time. And I just I instilled a set of values for myself and boundaries, you know, for myself and what was acceptable and what wasn't. And I think in there, at some point, I made a deal with God. And, yeah, it was pretty profound. I think I had a spiritual awakening, for sure. It was like that at that moment where it was like, there was tears, and it's like, I don't really cry that like, you know, it's hard for me to cry. And I was, like, just tearing up, and I made a deal with God that, like, you know, considering God gave me this opportunity to a, be alive and B, be sober in a treatment program and having a friend pay for it, you know. And this place wasn't cheap, right? It wasn't a luxury place, but, you know, it's a long term treatment program, and I don't know, I just made that deal with God, like I can't go out. And, you know, there's been a there's been many times since in this sobriety, especially in the beginning, where I had so many opportunities to get loaded, and there's so many reasons on why should get loaded, and even to where I had them in my hand, and I was like, Oh, nope. And I would put it back down, because I said, Remember that deal I made with God? Like, I can't, I gotta, I gotta hold true to that, you know. So for me, dude, you know, it was really big, like everybody says it's, I just did what people told me to do, and which was work the steps, you know, and I got a sponsor, and I really in depth work the steps. And I worked on the fourth step for two hours a day, like, I really, like, dove in and I wanted to get serious, and I wanted to get this. And I was sick of building my life up and burning it down, because my pattern was, get three years sober, go out, get a year and a half sober, go out, get another year sober, go out. And I was. Sick of doing that. You know, at this point, I had a child, and you know, my dad was there for me when, you know, I grew up, I have, I have great parents, you know, they're very loving, caring. And the idea of me not showing up for my son as my dad did for me, I felt like was just the most selfish. Like, if I were to do that, that would have been the most selfish decision and that I could have ever made. Because, you know, my dad was there for me, and he gave me a life as much as he could, and I want to do the same for my son. And so, you know, I just made that choice where they said, you know, find a higher power. And yeah, I was raised in the church. Did I really believe all the stuff that was, you know, I was told not necessarily. I had to break all those beliefs down and really come up with my own sense of higher power. And like, what is my higher power? One for me, you know, do I believe that if I did something bad, my higher power is going to punish me? And I just had all these beliefs, you know, and I had to, like, break all that down and set that aside, and you say the set aside prayer, but I had to set all that stuff aside and really, like come up with my own Higher Power set or set around rules and principles that I believe that might you know how my higher power wants me to be successful, he wants me to be happy, he wants me to be loved, and he wants me to help others. And it's not necessarily a guy in the sky that has long hair or it's Jesus, it's just this being, and I don't know what they look like, but I just did what was said, and I created my higher power. And I started praying to that higher power daily and asking for guidance and asking for help. And if I was confused, scared or lost, I let my higher power know that, and I, you know, I asked for that guidance. And this this far, it has worked right like I have. I could say, built the life for myself that I've always dreamed of, or I've always wanted, you know, any goal that I've had in sobriety, I've, I've met that goal, like I've, I've achieved it, you know. And again, it's not all materialistic stuff. It was like having a girlfriend that you love and care about, like, I found a great girlfriend, like, I've had another child since that first child I just talked about, you know, and I have the relationship with him. It's like he's my He's four, but he's like, my best friend, you know, like I he's my world, he's my life, like he is my number one priority. And, you know, I was working in treatment, and I just saw what was working and what wasn't working within this treatment industry, right? Yeah, yeah, we were just talking about outside, about the about how important long term treatment is, but it's, it's the treatment industry as a whole is a, it's an odd place to be. It's just a broken system in a way, right? Like, I think the model we have is very outdated, and, you know, especially for men, right? If you look at men nationwide right now, okay, men from the ages like 18 to 35 or 38 I say 18 to 38 they are the most broken and lost they've ever been, right? If you look at it, they they they have no partner, they have no career path, they don't have many friends. You know, they are at an all time low, and a lot of that is because technology, whether it's Pornhub or video games, you know, I think men are afraid to talk to women. They're afraid to approach women, right? They're afraid to, you know, be masculine. I guess you could say, when I say masculine, not like toxic masculinity. I mean, like, they're just afraid to, like, be a man. And I think that what I saw was a lot of guys just struggling. And so I was working in treatment, and I was seeing this model of this 28 to 30, you know, 60 day, 90 day model, where people go in and they're paying $100,000 for a month of treatment, and they're not really getting much out of it. You don't leave that place with a huge community. You don't leave with like, a different sense of self, normally, and if you do, it goes away pretty quickly. Within a month, most people are leaving treatment, and they're going back to the same people, places and things, and so therefore you will get the same results. And so I knew a different way of getting sober that I experienced in Colorado. And I said, you know, I want to create something like that. And when I it was maybe three, three years ago, I decided I want to open a treatment program, and let's start as a sober living right? And we didn't have much money. My friend had a little bit of money, and my brother and his fiance had a little bit of money. And we just said, let's take a risk. And we found this property in Venice, and we inquired about it, and we toured it, and the owners were like, Sure, make it into a sober living like, whatever you want to do with it. We don't care. We just want, you know, Give us our money. And I think we had like$100,000 together. The security deposit on the property was like 60 grand, right? So, like, we didn't have, you know, the operational costs. It was like, it's either you're gonna burn and turn really quickly, like you're gonna get some people in and pay the rent, or it's gonna fail within three months. And luckily, we were really able to get the property, get it furnished. And just get people in, and it's worked out this far, and now we have transitioned more into a treatment program, right? Kind of like the model that I went to in Colorado, where, like, when guys come in now, you know, we're not a sober living like you come in and do a 90 day intensive program where you're doing individual therapy three to four times a week for the first month, right? You're seeing a psychiatrist. You're getting on a good medication regimen. You're going to the gym every morning. Guys, yeah, well, you know, we want the guys to be active, so I don't care what it is, if it's the gym or it's a beach run or it's rock climbing or whatever, but it is very outdoor and life skills based, you know, the guys are up by 730 we do a coffee talk, which is kind of like a morning check, and at 745 you do, you know, your chore, which is, whether it's trash or dishes, at eight, we're at the gym. At 830 by 930 you're back and that, you know, we do that five days a week. It's just, it's just grown, I guess is what I'm saying. You know, it became something we didn't really know what it was gonna become, but it became something bigger than what we thought it would be. Yeah, it's a really great house. I think there's a couple of things that you just touched on. Just want to, want to circle back on for a minute when you were talking about God, you were saying about how it's a gift. And I want to just reflect on that for a minute, because, you know, I was thinking about it. I was taking cakes this week, which is crazy, but crazy. It's insane, dude. I'm like to see you where you were a year ago. Is how you are now. For a minute that was like, so you were the guy that told me to go to rehab. Can you explain that story? Because I like hearing it from you. Well, dude, like, you know, it's very similar to the friend that we are talking about who's on the streets right now. And when I say that, I mean, like, you were loved by so many people. You had so much potential to do whatever you want in life. And I can see that, and many other could see that, right? You had a lot of gifts, and the gifts were helping people and being able to communicate a message to people, which you're doing right now through a podcast, and you do it in many other ways as well in life, but you just had a lot of potential. You're loved by a lot of people. And I just saw you keep doing the same thing over and over again, right? It's like where you had a lot of friends who would like pick you up, but you would like go into a sober living relapse, either give you a second chance or kick you out, and then you go into another one and relapse, and it was just this dance. And I'm like, bro, like, you are not stable enough emotionally right now to stay sober. You need treatment, right there is a time and a place for treatment, and that's where you were at. And that's why I was like, hey dude, like, I think he just gotta, like, on the roof, yeah, we were on the roof of the beach house. Yeah, we went up there, and you were like, I don't know what to do. And I just said, I think you need to go to rehab. And I know you don't have a lot of resources, but let's find some. And luckily, we have a good friend group, and they found you this resource. Beethove, and this place is fucking amazing and beautiful and has such good energy, and I was just really impressed by you, because most people, when I say you have to go to treatment, they're like, no, no, no, I don't need to go to treatment. I'm good. I don't need that. I'll go to detox for three days or five days, and then I'll go into a sober living it's like people are so treatment resistant, but it's like they're so blind to the fact they don't understand it's like, Dude, it takes your body a month to heal, your mind a month to heal, to be stable enough to even stay sober and absorb any information on how to stay sober after that. And it's like, people don't grasp that concept they like. And I get it. I was that kid once too, where I'm like, fuck that. I'm not going to treatment like I'm good. But it just doesn't work that way. You know, it's like, if you've been out for a year, it's like, your body's gonna take almost a year to heal, and your mind is gonna take a year to heal. And people that don't grasp that concept, and I was so impressed by you, because you just said, okay, it was like, shocking to me. You're just like, Okay, sure. And I was like, wow, that was fucking easy. Okay. Like, that's not the response I was anticipating. And you went into treatment, dude, and you look at you now, and that's why it's like you're such a prime example of if you just throw up the white flag like I did. I said, I'm willing to go to the Salvation Army like same thing. I didn't care. I just wanted I knew what sobriety was, and I knew I had a lot of friends who were in sobriety, and they wanted to fucking see me shine. And I I just said yes. And same as you, you said yes, and you've been able to build your life up to where it is now today. And that person that I saw in you is now here, the Seb that I knew was inside of you is finally arrived. Yeah, right, and it's and now you're able to show up as a father. Now you're able to show up as a friend and a brother, and you will do whatever else you want to do in life, and you will be successful at it. Well, yeah. Well, thank you for that. But I like, I like how we're going back to the whole thing about this being a gift, because I've had, I've been having thinking about this a lot this week, which was Yes, I said yes to you. But if I'm being honest, if I'm being totally like I you know when Harris, who's your Sober Living manager who runs the house for your guys? When he drove me here, I'll be honest, I didn't feel any lower than I'd regularly felt. You know, I didn't have a white light moment. I didn't say this is gonna be it. You know, I had hang out the white flag, but there wasn't no preaching on a hill. I honestly felt like. Here we go again, right? And so I have to believe, I absolutely have to believe that God did something for me, that I can do for myself, that I was given a gift. Sure, I felt down and depressed, but my whole life was being down and depressed. It just felt like okay now the treatment center. I didn't feel like it was gonna work. I didn't feel any more determined. I didn't feel anything different, other than the fact, okay, I've thrown up the white flag again. And so, like, when I think about it, I'm like, This was a gift. This was something that was so freely given to me. And for some reason, God decided that my suffering was over and it wasn't obvious to me, right? Which is why long term treatment, I think, is so important. Because, like, it didn't dawn on me that this might actually start working until maybe month four or five, all I did was go, I don't know shit. Theron thinks I need to go to rehab. I'll go to rehab. And I did that in all areas of my daily life, which was, Oh, I'm not that hungry. Oh, they're telling me to get up. I should probably go and eat. Oh, they're telling me to go to group. I should probably go to group. That's all I did. Yeah, I had, I just, I had resigned to the fact that I had no good ideas. And, you know, for the first six months, I had to ask people if I should tie my shoes or, like, what like I felt. But I was willing to take that level of advice in all areas of my life, because I had thrown up the white flag, you know, and it looks different for everybody. But for me, it was just following, you know, I say, you know, I say here, like, after night, I spent a lot of time with the guys here, and I this, this place is, even though I'm not a resident anymore, I'm still here pretty much every day, because I don't think I can ever repay what this place ever gave out to me. And if I can help one person a year, that's the fucking That's the ticket for me, right? And, um, and, and people ask me like, or I try to tell them, like, how you're successful in treatment. And I tell them frankly, you don't need to come here and be a model citizen. You don't even have to come here and do very much. You do just have to fucking show up. You just have to follow some very basic rules of bedtimes, this time wake ups this time, this is when you're gonna eat, you're gonna go to group, and you just, you don't even have to like I remember, for my first month here, I didn't particularly share in groups, but I just showed up. And over time, I became more willing, and I could see it, but I just started saying yes, and I stopped fighting. I just came to the fact that I'm utterly mental. And, you know, I can't decide on salad dressing. How the fuck am I going to decide, like, on the course of my life? Fuck out of here, dude. I need real when I go to treatment. I need. I need. And I think this is we need very minimal decision making, which is why, when we're talking about our friend, like, long term treatment, you know, or long term structure, long term community might be the better word. Long term community is, is the fucking is the ticket? That is one of the main ticket recipe, like pieces of the recipe, I agree. But one of the biggest key points you said is you just say yes. And the people I see who have success with, you know, staying abstinent from drugs and alcohol for extended period of time are the ones who just say, yes, yeah. And, you know, there's a lot of sayings that I tell people and live by and go by, and one of them is, you know, I believe life and or sobriety, it's about doing things you don't want to do. Yeah, right. That is the key in recipe to staying sober long term is, do I want to read the 12 Steps of Alcoholics Anonymous in the big book? I don't. I really don't. I don't want to read any book right now. You know, like, I don't do I want to go to meetings and sit in a circle and, like, listen to people share and talk and hear their problems or hear their feelings. Of course not. Why would I? I don't want to sponsor people. I don't want to go to meetings. I don't want to read the book. I don't want to do any of this shit. I don't want to write out every person I've ever been mad at or resentful at and like how I harmed them. Like, that's horrible. But again, it's just me saying yes, and it's me doing the things that I have to do to stay sober. Because if everybody else does it and it works for them, why wouldn't it work? Wouldn't it work for me? And when you can surrender to that fact, I think you will be in a lot better place and have a lot more success with sobriety. And it's, it comes down to this. It's like, you know, losers do what they want and winners do what they have to. That's just the facts of life. You know, that's a fucking Zinger. Yeah, it's the truth. It's so true. And, you know, people all seem to understand too. It's like, Look, dude, like in life, sobriety, sober or not, you're gonna have good days, you're gonna have bad days, you might have a horrible week, and you might be down in the. And feeling depressed for a week. But that doesn't mean you have to go use or get high over it, because, you know, a week from now, or that week, a week from then, you could be in an amazing place and getting people to understand like you're gonna have ups and downs, right? I want my life to look like I'm a realist, right? So I want my life to look like a good stock. If you look at any good stock on the stock market, it goes up and then it dips, right? But then it keeps going up, and it's always continuously rising with dips. And I think if your life can look like that, it's like a continuous rise with dips and UPS and ups, as long as it's going up and down a little bit and up, like you're in good shape, right? Like you're gonna have bad days. And so, yeah, we tend to think that life is like a perfect 45 degree angle, and it's just not correct. You actually think that about careers. When I would think about that in careers, it's like, it's just not no one's career or no one's life. Does this perfect fucking arrow up 45 degrees 100% dude, like last year. I mean, honestly, it was one of, like, the hardest years of my life in sobriety, just like so hard, emotionally, mentally, right? I don't know why it just was, it just was really difficult, but I understand that there is other, there's another side to that, right? And to get through, you know, the good times you got to go, you know, to get to the good times, you got to go through the hard times. And it's always like a test from the universe, dude. It's like, how I feel. It's like, let me push you to the max and see what you can withstand. And how far can I push you until you're either gonna break. But if you stay, I'm gonna reward you, right? If you get through this hard time, I'm gonna reward you. And I have that mindset, and I try to really keep that so when I am in dark times or things are really hard, and I'm just like, This is a test, this is a test. This is a test. And I'm being pushed, because if I can get through this, it will be even better than it is, you know, before it was bad. And so I try to keep that mindset, you know, yeah, I want to touch on one more thing, on community and what I love about what you're doing at little beach house. So I started by bringing a van on Thursdays about six months ago, right? And I've now, Steve brings the van, and that was very intentional, because I love what you're doing there. And I bring the van because I think it's important for people that are in treatment to see that other communities exist. I'm looking I got to know I exist. I'm on the way. I've been on the west side. Aa, so I have that. But I think about the other people that come into treatment and not saying that they won't remain a part of the community here, but they might have other interests, or maybe they don't have and I think it's important for people to have like while they're in treatment, to see other thriving communities that they can go be part 100% they need be inspired too. Yeah, yeah. And I think you need to I realized about six months ago that I was super lucky that I knew the right West Side aa stuff. But then I would meet people in treatment who this is their first time getting sober, and they don't really understand that you need a couple communities to balance you out. You need a place to go. And so, yeah, we arrive, we come to your meeting every Thursday at seven and and I think it's really helped a lot of people. And we also got to give you a shout out, because you guys made it co ed for us, or not, maybe for us, but you made it co Ed, which was, that was awesome, too. Like, I think that's important too. We're very important, especially the van I bring. It's a co Ed van. So I love that. It's, it's co Ed and, you know, I got sober in a, you know, one point in the sober living where it was male and female, and some of the females that I was in that place with are still some of my best friends today, and I learned a lot from them. I learned to have a relationship with a female that wasn't romantic or sexual, right? Like, I learned how to almost have a sister that I never had, because never had a sister. Right? Like, I didn't know how to talk to girls. Like I my only way to talk to girls was like to flirt, but like to actually have a female as a friend. You know, I learned that in in this program, and my sisters in AA, and so, you know, everything I've done in life or accomplished or like anywhere I've been, I owe it to sobriety and getting sober. And, you know, dude, the west side, like you said, These people need to see what's out there, because the west side, aa, is world renowned. Dude, it really is. Like, I've been to meetings all over, like you I've been to meetings in the UK, like you can name it, Florida, New York, like, fucking everywhere. And nothing really compares. And so being able to have people come from wherever they're from, and come to treatment and show them that, and have them get inspired by people who they meet in the rooms is such a priceless piece to this as well. And that's how i That's why I stuck around in a I met dudes. I'm like, damn. Like that guy. He's doing it. He seems pretty cool. He seems like he has a life that I want, like, I'm if he can do I'm just going to do what he does, and if that includes his a thing, like, let's do it. And people need to be exposed to that. Yeah, it's huge. Hey, we'll be right back. But before we do please consider helping us grow this podcast. You could do that a number of different ways. You can hit follow on. Spotify. You can rate us, review us, but what would be really awesome would be if you could share this with one other addict or alcoholic that you think could get something out this podcast. If everyone did that, we would grow this thing tremendously. But as always, thank you for listening and thank you for your support. Yeah, so we we ask every guest this, as we come to a close, what would you tell little Theron today, if you could give him some words of wisdom, give up the fight. Just give up the fight. Your way doesn't work, plain and simple. It's like you you're gonna try every way to to do it, and you're going to try to do it your way in every little you know, way possible, and it's not going to work, and the only way is just follow these simple directions and steps that are already laid out. And if I could have stayed sober a long time ago, I don't even know where I'd be today, like I my life would probably look even better, right? Like me, dude, there you go. You get it, you know, and so, but, you know, I'm so grateful for where I'm at today, in the sense of, like, all that stuff I went through, bro, and all that stuff you went through and you went through, like, we needed to have these things happen to us to make us the people we are today, to make us strong enough to be able to, like, partake in life and handle everything that's thrown at us, yeah? Or talk about us gonna get our buddy and fucking pull him out of a homeless camp maybe later. You know, yeah, I saw, yeah. We were thinking. I'm like, like, my mind still goes to places where I'm like, Man, I want to do some rogue shit. Like, I want to, like, pull up. We get a Five Guys, yeah? Like, we're we literally, like, we got the zip ties ready, we fucking throw them in the van, and we beat him up if we have to, and we zip time, and we take him to fucking treatment, right? Because people like that. They're too important to not be sober, in my opinion, right? Like they like I said it was like, you, you have too much to offer. You have too much to give. You have too many people who love you for you to be doing what you're doing right now. And I start to get a little pissed off, where I'm like, All right, this is crazy. Like, let's just go fucking beat this dude up and bring him to rehab. He may need that, and maybe you'll thank us later, but he's not gonna die. Yeah, you know, and I don't know. I just, I just wish there was more we can do. And so we're gonna, we'll see. Stay tuned for next week, maybe we'll have some updates, I hope so. Yeah, thanks for coming in today. Thank you guys. Bye.